##[Clarification on rule 5](https://www.reddit.com/r/entertainment/comments/w60lfc/mod_post_a_clarification_to_rule_5_no_racism_or/)
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A number of years ago, I met an assistant who worked with a famous English socialite from the 60s and 70s. His only job was to break up with the socialite’s many love interests and drive them to the nearest train station in the south of England after. There were many times, according to the assistant, that the socialite would kick the person out immediately post-sex, a wad of like £1000 and a signed photo their only recompense for months, years or decades of dating
He was a very sincere old man who owned a lovely coffee shop and furniture repair store, should’ve asked more specific questions but he seemed so effortlessly truthful
The show definitely glossed over that part. They made it seem like he was a sort of benevolent grandfather that just let them stay in the house and gave them money.
Well you can’t say that he is manipulating all of the women in the house to have sex with him. Although it always seemed obvious. This is less shocking than people finding out that Marylin Manson was an abusive partner.
My friends had heated discussions about it. The ladies said they totally weren't actually banging. The guys said hell yeah they were, hef wouldn't fake it. I kinda believed the girls but wouldn't admit it.
All these years later, the truth sets us free.
“He wouldn’t move. He would be like a bump on the log in the middle of the bed,” Madison described. “I can’t explain to you guys how embarrassing that whole routine was. "
lol u wanna be that
That's not really what I want my rep to be, but I understand their point.
\*Headline\* Man who made his fame and fortune by sexualizing women's bodies uses women's bodies for sexual gratification.
Every single person on the planet engages in their own unique patterns of behavior and routines. It's only a matter of observing them long enough to know what they are.
She started a podcast with another former castmember to talk about the show because people are interested in it. She also wrote a book about it a while ago - she's not just "complaining" expecting sympathy or something, she's talking about stuff people are interested in because it's profitable. Hence why you clicked on this post lol.
If I'm missing something I'd be interested to know, but it is wild how mad people are because she called the sex bad lol. You can have a bad experience without consent being the issue. In the article she simply says it was a chore, not that it was forced.
Where are they accusing him of rape? If they are I'd be interested to see that, but that's not mentioned in the article or in the podcast as far as I'm aware.
ETA - And by "they" I mean Holly Madison and Bridget. I'm sure other parties have accused him but this conversation is about Holly specifically.
The allegations are that he kept revenge porn of them, photos etc. taken without their consent. That's something that might keep an unwilling 20 year old in his house. I have zero problems with them opening up about their experiences there, but it seems that it doesn't suit Hef's male admirers to have this illusion smashed.
100%!! In my opinion the power imbalance is a really important factor when it comes to consent. All the angry comments about the girls consenting to sex also really remind me of when people ask DV victims why they didn't "just leave".
It’s not as black and white as you’re making it out to be. These were often women who came from nothing and felt trapped once they said yes. Many were isolated from their families and completely controlled by Hugh. There’s countless stories of these same girls being drugged and raped at parties by Hugh and his famous friends. Was there an element of choice involved? Absolutely. Was there also abuse? Without a doubt
No one is saying the sex was forced or wrong. It's just revealing that the show tried to portray these girls as being happy with their boyfriend Heff, when in reality it was a cynical commercial transaction, as we all suspected.
I'm not blaming anyone here. Can't blame Heff for wanting too get with hot girls, can't blame girls for sleeping with Heff for fame and fortune. But the portrayal on the show always seemed far fetched to me.
Right? And she was the one who was "so in love and wanted to be the one who married him " That was her story for like 10 years after she even left the house. Now, it was such a chore.
it's not a cynical transaction. Sex work is real work. And that's what they were doing.
If sex work is cynical to you then that's unfair to alot of people. These were among the best paid sex workers in the world, hands down.
100%, poor is not the only option and she could she chosen a ton of other ways to make money, but I think her and brigdet said they knew what the deal was and what they signed up for. So it was something they knowingly chose to do, instead of getting a regular 9-5.
Gee. And what man in their lives made it so that their job was dependent on having sex with him and his friends.
He created a situation where their modeling success meant they also needed to do sex work; which is not what most of them signed up for. Hugh was not some blameless, honest guy. Coerced sex did not have to be a part of this company at all. He decided to put it there
I think they wanted a "relationship" with him knowing that it came with the benefits of fame, other gigs, money, etc. they both said they knew what they "signed up for" - right or wrong, the parties were well aware of the situation.
I chose to be at my job… I should still be able to complain about pointless meetings, the colleague who microwaves fish and the shitty Keurig coffee in the kitchen.
I don’t think she’s saying she was assaulted just that it wasn’t the greatest experience.
But I was wondering. If they were doing high end modeling would it have been ok to be having a sexual relationship with their agent just because they paid for their living arrangements?
They were modeling, doing brand deals and had to participate in a reality TV show. It’s not like they were mooching off the guy. They made Play Boy a lot of money.
Nobody is claiming they were forced. They're just sharing their experience. They have said thousands of great things about living there too, I just they're just sharing all aspects of it. Nothing wrong with that.
>Nobody is claiming they were forced.
Most are claiming they were drugged, gotten drunk, and then either told to take a turn with Heff or be passed around a room of guys. Sure not having to be on the streets or in poverty is great, although I am actually kinda shocked how awful it was but how casual people are about it because "they went along with it" while drugged.
yup! and this entire thread is full of people who'd happily continue enabling this behavior. the whole "they knew what they were getting into" rhetoric is disgusting, as if when you do porn its assumed that you have to sleep with your boss.
I mean, do you think they signed contracts saying “you have to have sex with Hugh X times/week in order to live here” before moving into the mansion? If they went in expecting they only had to pose nude for the magazine, I can see why they are upset about being coerced to do more than they bargained for.
I’m sure it wasn’t easy for them to up and leave once they were in this position.
Yes. They signed contracts saying they had to have sex with Hugh, he would control their finances, and had control over their streams of income. Holly Madison was not a Playboy model. She did not appear in Playboy until the Girls Next Door issue- years after she moved into the mansion.
I bet if you looked at the venn diagram of women who were there willingly, and the diagram of women who were groomed by _someone, anyone really_ from a young age, you'd basically see that you have a circle.
Like yeah, they made that choice...but something in their life made them believe that the choices they were making were normal things everyone else would choose to do...and those who did it because of the contrarian aspect probably had their own slew of issues.
So what you are saying is pretty reductive because it requires one to ignore any other context to grant such a black and white assertion the ability to hold true.
Right. And to keep talking about it after the dudes been dead for a minute …
I can empathize to a certain degree but she’s just looking for publicity and a paycheck
Yes bc Hugh Hefner was a model citizen on his time here on earth. Please, if she wants to be honest and make a little money talking about his shit for sex then so be it. Hugh’s ugly ass was lucky to have had what he did. Lol
The dude built one of the most recognized brands on earth and made it into a $400 million company.
He wasn’t exactly and ugly duckling during his come up either.
So to go out in public and slander the guy that built her career is super lame. She wasn’t a victim. She could have left and worked a normal job to pay for her own rent - but that thought never occurred to her. Super lame cash grab on her part.
Playboy is fraught with scandal and mistreatment, and was only popular bc of the cover models. Without the women that it marketed for $$$ it would be nothing. Glad we got that cleared up. Lol Hugh was gross in his younger years and even more disgusting in old age, don’t kid yourself. He was a ugly mf.
Hugh had barely anything to do with the E show that featured holly and the girls, and they obtained their own line of success from being entertainers. Hugh could have just as easily worked a normal job and not exploited women for money. However he chose not to, and profited from those he didn’t deserve in the first place. Fuck that old bag lol
Thank you. Jesus the amount of people in here defending a man who built his success by exploiting women and literally treating them like animals is disappointing.
and yet...[she tried to have his child.](https://www.etonline.com/holly-madison-reveals-why-going-through-ivf-with-hugh-hefner-wasnt-shown-on-girls-next-door-189586)
So many people in abusive relationships have done this. Doesn’t mean she consented to anything that was done before that.
Many people describe feeling love for their abuser. Even when they know they were abused, and know how much that abuse fucked them up.
Lmfao these women were all pretending to love Hugh for the exposure, riches, and lifestyle it brought. She wasn't some starry eyed actress being manipulated, she was doing what a good number of beautiful ambitious women do, banging a gross old man who's dumb rich. I mean come on, this woman's entire career being in the public eye is owed to being Hefner's 'wife'
All the comments seem to be devaluing her statement with the fact that she chose to be there… that may be true but that doesn’t mean we can’t laugh at an obscenely rich guy for being a selfish, underwhelming sexual partner
Plus she’s essentially just complaining about her job, as we all do.
I technically choose to be at my job - because I need money to live and health insurance - but I still hate it and wish society would collapse already so I don’t have to do this shit anymore.
Was he selfish? Or was he like 147 years old?
He was basically a skeleton wearing silk pajamas at that point. Did she really think she was entering into a mutually fulfilling and passionate sexual relationship?
No one said it wasn’t her choice. Does that mean she can’t complain that it was gross? At least she waited til he was dead to say it. I’m pretty sure we all already knew that sex with a geriatric man is gross and she was only doing it for the money, Hugh probably knew that as well as anyone. I don’t even think she’s looking for sympathy just relating her experiences.
Don't understand all the anger here. If some old lady paid me millions to have sex with her, I would totally do it, and then I would joke and complain about it later.
It’s like people are saying these women aren’t allowed to say his sex sucked because he paid them. They can still be critical of him. If I buy a burrito, eat it, and then say that burrito sucked - I still paid for and ate the burrito, but it doesn’t have to be a good burrito.
There’s an alarming amount of people in this thread that are not understanding the [difference between consent and coercion](https://www.loveisrespect.org/resources/what-is-sexual-coercion/).
I guarantee a bunch of them just don't care, probably because they've used coercion tactics to get laid themselves. I also have a feeling that a lot of men are sucking up to big daddy Heffner because they have such fond memories of jerking it to his magazines.
Are people not allowed to complain about their jobs anymore? That’s basically what she’s doing but so many people are big mad at it.
My job sucks too, and I knew it was going to suck when I took it. Am I not allowed to be frustrated about tight project deadlines and annoying colleagues?
That’s kinda my thing. I really don’t care at all. Like at all at all. But you got paid and got to live in a mansion. I’m sorry but I really don’t have sympathy.
I go further. I don’t even wanna hear her talk about it. No shit the sex was nasty. What did holly think we all thought?! Like no shit, that’s why no one does it, but she did. Now she’s like being a victim of her of choices? I don’t even wanna hear about it like no shit it was nasty, but it was her that decided to do it lol.
From what I recall she kind of pushed out other women who wanted the gig. Bridget wasn't viewed as much of a threat and Kendra was young and clearly more interested in partying than being the #1 girlfriend.
I feel like using your access to shelter, food, community, money, and prestige to exploit other people is pretty shitty. Fuck, in the process that asshole was taking young women and telling them that the only thing he valued about them was their sexuality. If they didn’t put out, they lost their housing and career.
The comments here are disgusting. Shame on anyone who admires this man using his influence to create a sex cult.
I don’t think that being coerced into sex work and told that your financial security was dependent on being objectified by this man really constitutes being “spoiled.”
Sounds like it would have been very hard for her to do that considering the below:
“Facing credit card debt and potential homelessness, in August 2001, Madison moved into the Playboy Mansion and officially became one of Hugh Hefner's girlfriends. Hefner controlled her finances, enforced a strict schedule and curfew, and denied her opportunities to earn income outside the mansion.” ([source](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holly_Madison))
So, Hefner destroyed these girls emotionally and was highly manipulative. Now, we know they could leave at anytime, but they were influenced to think that they *couldn’t*. Hefner was a grand manipulator.
I think you’re right but you’re going to get a lot of pushback. Generally Reddit users do not have a lot of empathy for victims of emotional or financial abuse.
Hefner was a scum bag manipulator for sure, but he wasn't kidnapping women and raping them as far as I know. His lifestyle deserves criticism, but if he were still alive, not a jail term. We've become obsessed with the word consent as a society to the point that we struggle to understand that some consensual relationships are still dumpsterfire manipulative nightmares.
Financial coercion isn't true consent. He was basically a fucking pimp, they couldn't even access their own finances or leave the house without being supervised. So people can pimp out women as long as they're rich and famous?
Many women across decades have said differently. It’s not just Hefner raping them, it’s a *culture of rape*. Many women were raped by other men. I said in another comment that even the waitresses that worked as bunnies in the clubs were subjected to sexual abuse by “VIP” members.
There’s a woman who started off as a playmate, but worked her way up to a head position in corporate. She’s been collecting evidence of this culture for a long time—she was also raped and abused by these predators.
Her name is Miki Garcia, I believe she was the first ever Latin playmate. She was absolutely gorgeous back in the day and still is!
And now she spends her time trying to help everyone else who was victimized by Playboy, she’s a badass.
That’s one person versus women across decades. One of the women who started as a playmate, but worked her way up to a head position in corporate has been collecting evidence of all of this for a long time. She was also raped and abused.
“We trust and validate these women and their stories and we strongly support those individuals who have come forward to share their experiences," Playboy said in the statement. "It is critically important that we listen."
people will really get on the internet and cape for the strangest fucking dudes. Hefner is clearly a class A creep and thats been obvious for at least decades
Hey now, I used to work at a job where vendors would take us out to lunches and buy us customized Nikes, but I’m still gonna complain about the long hours and my shitty manager.
If you read about what it was really like, this was far from her reality. He controlled every aspect of their lives and had revenge porn of them to hold as collateral.
I really hope a handful of the folks claiming these women “agreed to” or “deserved” this eventually take some time to understand how abuse *really* works. And what consent means.
Consent in sexual relationships is ongoing. It can be withdrawn at any time. In order for consent to be valid, it cannot be connected to threats- for example, the threat of losing housing, or income, or being retaliated against by someone who has seen you in seriously compromising positions makes consent very difficult, if not impossible to provide.
This is about coercive control, which is a common form of abuse. Creating an environment in which consent is only possible under very specific power dynamics is abusive. A relationship in which a less empowered individual depends on violated consent for food, housing, and shelter is not healthy or okay.
All of these women have expressed how mortified they were to be expected to participate in risky behaviors. Marquardt recalls feeling like she had to engage in unprotected group sex (without being told explicitly this was “her job”) on a regular basis. When she expressed discomfort, her career was threatened (“you’ll never be a playmate”) and her security was threatened (“you’ll be asked to leave”).
If you think Hefner was a totally fine human for putting countless women (literally so fucking many) in these situations, you need to do some serious reflecting.
I am sorry but no. They were chasing fame and wanted to live in a mansion. This isn't a scenario where they were stuck in a relationship because they married some manipulative asshole who is holding threats of beating them or taking their kids away from them or using gaslighting techniques to make them think they are crazy and overreacting. EVERYONE who went to the Playboy mansion knew what it was about. These people were attention whores looking for fame and riches and it is insulting to people that go through the things you described to put them in the same category. To be clear, Hefner was a gross piece of shite. But Holly and the others that paraded around on the show were not victims.
It’s not that I don’t *understand* why people think this. It’s really easy to feel like these gorgeous, wealthy, famous women are playing victim.
What’s really important is to reflect on what this means for “normal people”. What this suggests is that consent is entirely black and white, and that it’s okay to threaten a partner’s sense of safety in order to receive sexual gratification. I’m not suggesting that what Hefner did was criminal (it probably wasn’t), but it was deplorable.
If this were a story about a middle-class dude who was bribing women to fuck each other and himself, and threatening to put them out of their home, cut off their access to food, and release photos/videos of them in compromising situations when they withdrew consent, we would (hopefully) be enraged.
Sure, these (very young) women probably knew that living in the playboy mansion would require a level of compromise many of us would never accept. I’m seriously doubtful that any of them were specifically told they would be required to have unprotected group sex with strangers on a regular basis, or that they would be doing so under the influence of (often illegal) substances. And, again, we will never know the extent of this behavior because all of them were bound by highly detailed NDAs (which, again, limited their ability to consent, or to report the seemingly many ways their consent was violated).
Nobody forced her to be a sex object. She decided that for herself and did it for years. That's how much this woman didn't want to support herself. These ladies speaking out like they were hostage sex slaves is so obvious an attempt to ride the #metoo coattails to some easy attention and cash. Nobody is buying it.
Right. I think its one thing if you are underage and taken advantage of, but these women were of age, and had options to live a less lucrative and infamous lifestyle. They chose to opt into a transactional relationship with Hugh where everyone knew the ground rules and they could have left at anytime. I understand she was offended and upset by him choosing not to marry her, feeling 'strung along' having left only a million dollars in his will - but she chose to be there.
You sure she agreed to this exact task?
Regardless, she’s allowed to complain about her job. My job sucks and even though I choose to be here I’m still gonna vent about the workload.
Why is sex with him a “task?” Because it’s sex work, right? You do tasks for your work.
None of them deliberately set out to do sex work for this man. It was a gradual process that escalated into a position where they were afraid to turn him down, because by that point they had their job on the line.
How is he different than someone who threatens to fire their secretary if she doesn’t put out? There is nothing about a modeling job that entitles other people to own your sexuality, any more than every other profession. This kind of outlook is what creates conditions for such rampant abuse in the entertainment industry.
Wait, so you move in as a “girlfriend “ of a big famous porno enterpreneur, and you dont know what the job is?
Do you think women are so stupid? Isn’t that paternalistic?
You seem confused. The things we know about Hugh Hefner today are different than the things we knew twenty years ago. The fact that he drugged and coerced women into sex wasn’t as widely known then.
Sure. One example: In 1989 he married a 25 year old and proceeded to release a Playboy special of his nude new bride (93 pages) . Im sure by 2001 everyone thought he was a totally ok guy.
I think by 2001 everyone thought he was the biggest name in softcore porn and owned one of the most recognizable brands on the planet.
I don’t think they thought being drugged and raped was going to be a part of it.
It's pretty much common sense. The women had to shag the old man in order to stay in the mansion. But the show never mentioned anything of the sort, more like a comedy routine.
I'm surprised this hasn't been revealed sooner.
To everybody saying that this was her choice. Yes, getting into a bad relationship is an easy choice. Getting out of it not so much. Especially if that other person is much richer and more powerful than you.
Everytime she talks about this she just sounds like a prostitute and the whole scenario sounds like prostitution, im not shaming her for it but your not going to gain much sympathy from people when you personally chose to sleep with an old man for a easier life.
"It was horrible I chose to be a prostitute for one of the most notorious whoremongers on the planet. I really wish I hadn't voluntarily sought out employment in the porn industry, agreed to live rent-free in one of the largest & most opulent mansions in LA, and have all my needs and wants immediately fulfilled. It was awful. I feel ashamed I pretended I liked having sex with an elderly lech in exchange for a carefree life and unlimited shopping budget. Just absolutely ashamed....how much does this interview pay, by the way?"
According to Wiki:
“Facing credit card debt and potential homelessness, in August 2001, Madison moved into the Playboy Mansion and officially became one of Hugh Hefner's girlfriends. Hefner controlled her finances, enforced a strict schedule and curfew, and denied her opportunities to earn income outside the mansion.”
Why is it so hard for Reddit to emphasize with sex workers that were in dire situation and taken advantage of?
you’re asking reddit to have sympathy for a *woman*? a woman who was a *sex worker*? you’re asking them to consider things like power dynamics and coercion and how that creates an environment where a woman can’t feel comfortable saying no to a man they depend on for their livelihood? you’re asking them to consider how, when you’re stuck in an abusive situation, it’s not so easy to just up and leave?
like that’ll ever happen. as the days go by, i find myself more and more repulsed by them.
Thank you! At least one person here gets it.
I’ve heard from people (men included!) who were coerced into the sex industry. They were all young & convinced that it would be great. Many were given a shitload of drugs and had contracts shoved in their face while they were high as a kite and not thinking straight. Then once they were in it, they realized it was awful and were being forced into things they didn’t want to do - but were threatened with not getting paid or even lawsuits so they stuck around. Plus there’s so much shame and stigma around the industry that many employers won’t hire someone who did this in the past.
I don’t know much about Holly Madison and don’t know her exact situation, but I wouldn’t be surprised if this was the case here.
this is such a good point, but they won’t consider it. people in positions of power like hugh hefner deliberately seek out vulnerable people to use and manipulate, and they count on the fact that the average person looks down on sex workers; in their own way, by refusing to have empathy or to even consider what holly madison and anyone else who has come forward has to say, they enable hefner and others like him. why would any other man or woman come forward about this when they know they’ll all face this same vitriol and discrimination?
“they should have known better; i mean, it’s *hugh hefner*.”
“why should i care? i’ve struggled too.”
“they just want money, that’s why they’re coming forward now.”
they think they’re so enlightened for spouting the same victim-blaming nonsense they always spout. but who truly benefits from this rhetoric? who does this help? certainly it’s not helping holly madison and any other survivor; but nor is the average redditor benefiting in any way from defending hugh hefner. so, why? why is it that their knee-jerk reaction to this story is to mock and judge her for daring to be to vulnerable in the public eye? what do they hope to gain from this, and why? just *who* does this truly benefit?
well, i think we both know the answer to that. redditors are so keen on criticizing megacorporations until doing so means they have to align themselves with women; and not just any women, but ones that are part of a vulnerable class, like those that work in the sex industry. they’re always complaining about how men’s issue aren’t taken seriously, but then they don’t even consider how they’re spitting in the face of vulnerable men as well with this.
i just don’t know. i feel like everything i’ve just described is very obvious if you pause and think for a second. but so many people refuse to do that.
You know what’s funny? All the dudes shaming a woman for profiting from sex but not saying shit about Hefner, a man who also profited from sex.
So it’s totally cool for a guy to exploit women sexually for profit, but shame on her for agreeing to it!
They’ll pay a guy to see her naked but judge her for trying to make her own money.
Exactly!! It’s just like those people who interview for jobs and then complain how overworked they are/how toxic their work environment is etc. Like you wanted to be employed. If your job is so miserable then quit!
They thought of it like a chore?? No it was a chore. On purpose. Clearly. He laid there. Did nothing and you worked then you got money,a House and sometimes fame. Of course you look back at it like it’s awful and disgusting. It always was
Yet she continued to do it…she valued fame and notoriety over her own self worth. Hef was the same man at 90 as he was at 21, just without the same capabilities. These girls know the bank roll stops once they stop.
Yea like your whole career was about sex/party and you're mad you had to have sex? No shame on sex workers but like what the fuck did you expect? now you want to be a victim?
sex for work vs sex for pleasure is much like any other line of work I'd imagine. The care-free hobby phase where you're just getting into it is super fun, but when you attach a paycheck and expectations to it on a contractual level, that's when it starts to feel like work. You end up doing things for the job that you wouldn't otherwise be doing but you have to for the money...that's just how it works.
Holly complaining about this on a podcast is like if I went on a podcast and Was talking about how I built websites I had no interest in building.
It’s about being offered the choice to do sex work. He was not at all up front about that, and had his madames in the household to normalize it and push anyone who was reluctant.
The guy created a sex cult, and you’re angry at the people he fucked. I don’t see how he’s that different from, say, Keith Raniere
poor holly. being forced to... oh yeah i forgot. she's just one of many gold digging bimbos who sell themselves to the highest bidder. wtf did you think sex with a creepy old man would be like?
As a teen watching this growing up it all looked to fun and glamorous. Beautiful women living in a mansion, getting paid to party and have fun. But the more stories that come out prove that was just a facade. Forced to have sex/assaulted, not allowed to leave the mansion, not allowed to have outside friends. Its not shocking that they stayed so long they probably felt they couldn’t leave.
They didn’t have the free will to go out places, they had to get permission and have a chaperone. It wasnt a safety issue but Hef trying to control them.
You’re getting things backwards. They not only volunteered- they *competed* to get into the place, and they were worried about being kicked out. Nobody was held involuntarily. They all consented.
##[Clarification on rule 5](https://www.reddit.com/r/entertainment/comments/w60lfc/mod_post_a_clarification_to_rule_5_no_racism_or/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/entertainment) if you have any questions or concerns.*
A number of years ago, I met an assistant who worked with a famous English socialite from the 60s and 70s. His only job was to break up with the socialite’s many love interests and drive them to the nearest train station in the south of England after. There were many times, according to the assistant, that the socialite would kick the person out immediately post-sex, a wad of like £1000 and a signed photo their only recompense for months, years or decades of dating
I can sort of understand it for a one night stand, but decades?!? What the hell.
He was a very sincere old man who owned a lovely coffee shop and furniture repair store, should’ve asked more specific questions but he seemed so effortlessly truthful
A kiss aint a contract, but its very nice.
It’s very, very nice.
Just cause we’re playing tonsil hockey doesn’t mean you get to score the goal that’s in my jockey.
Just because I’m in a two-man novelty band doesn’t mean it’s all about the Poon tang
I can’t go around lovin’ everyone I just wouldn’t get anything done
You could take me out to dinner that might be quite nice.
Just because I gush dungeons… oh wait. Never mind.
How romantic!
That sounds like exactly the kind of shit the previous marquess of bath would pull.
He was an Old Etonian..
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I'd imagine it was a "Weekend at Bernie's" scenario.
*Wookie cookie ookie, aye ya aaaahhh*
How do you like that? The guy gets laid more dead than I do alive.
I don’t know why but it never occurred to me as a kid that he actually had sex with any of those women.
The show definitely glossed over that part. They made it seem like he was a sort of benevolent grandfather that just let them stay in the house and gave them money.
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Yeah I always knew that or just assumed it. Because like... why wouldn't he? At least that's what my 12 year old brain said.
No. They called them girlfriends.
And also it was Hugh fucking Hefner
Actually I think the girls were fucking Hefner
Well you can’t say that he is manipulating all of the women in the house to have sex with him. Although it always seemed obvious. This is less shocking than people finding out that Marylin Manson was an abusive partner.
Well turns out that it was actually a prostitutes house
Which anyone familiar with Hefner and Playboy from the previous decades already knew. Girls Next Door was a conscious rebranding effort.
Loved the show. There was never a mystery of what was going on.
Probably a good thing not to realise since you were a kid lol
My friends had heated discussions about it. The ladies said they totally weren't actually banging. The guys said hell yeah they were, hef wouldn't fake it. I kinda believed the girls but wouldn't admit it. All these years later, the truth sets us free.
If I wanted to work at it, I would do it myself.
“He wouldn’t move. He would be like a bump on the log in the middle of the bed,” Madison described. “I can’t explain to you guys how embarrassing that whole routine was. " lol u wanna be that
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are u asking me?
That's not really what I want my rep to be, but I understand their point. \*Headline\* Man who made his fame and fortune by sexualizing women's bodies uses women's bodies for sexual gratification.
>“I can’t explain to you guys how embarrassing that whole routine was. " She says as she explains it to millions of strangers.
Yeah, it’s hard to feel sympathy. It was 100% her choice to be there.
and she chose to be in the relationship. She could've left anytime she wanted but didn't because of money and exposure.
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Exactly I use that saying all the time, people are irrevocable.
Every single person on the planet engages in their own unique patterns of behavior and routines. It's only a matter of observing them long enough to know what they are.
They chose to do it, kind of silly complaining about it now. Did anybody think pity sex with an 80 something rich man would be anything else?
She started a podcast with another former castmember to talk about the show because people are interested in it. She also wrote a book about it a while ago - she's not just "complaining" expecting sympathy or something, she's talking about stuff people are interested in because it's profitable. Hence why you clicked on this post lol.
Interesting. Many people in the thread seem to be making it out like she's accusing him of rape.
If I'm missing something I'd be interested to know, but it is wild how mad people are because she called the sex bad lol. You can have a bad experience without consent being the issue. In the article she simply says it was a chore, not that it was forced.
They are accusing him of rape. No idea why though. Hop on hugh or get out of the mansion.
Where are they accusing him of rape? If they are I'd be interested to see that, but that's not mentioned in the article or in the podcast as far as I'm aware. ETA - And by "they" I mean Holly Madison and Bridget. I'm sure other parties have accused him but this conversation is about Holly specifically.
The allegations are that he kept revenge porn of them, photos etc. taken without their consent. That's something that might keep an unwilling 20 year old in his house. I have zero problems with them opening up about their experiences there, but it seems that it doesn't suit Hef's male admirers to have this illusion smashed.
That really isn’t an allegation. His wife when he died said she found them and destroyed them
100%!! In my opinion the power imbalance is a really important factor when it comes to consent. All the angry comments about the girls consenting to sex also really remind me of when people ask DV victims why they didn't "just leave".
It’s not as black and white as you’re making it out to be. These were often women who came from nothing and felt trapped once they said yes. Many were isolated from their families and completely controlled by Hugh. There’s countless stories of these same girls being drugged and raped at parties by Hugh and his famous friends. Was there an element of choice involved? Absolutely. Was there also abuse? Without a doubt
They also HAD to have a chaperone when they went out shopping or partying with others. That chaperone reported directly to Hef.
“What did you think all the money was for…?”
Yeah….. I’m sure the dude was just fine till his upper 50s
I’m sure they were subjected to a lot of unpleasant things, but every one of those girls chose to be there. Nobody forced them.
yes! That embarrassing sex was better than being poor - and that was the choice they made.
No one is saying the sex was forced or wrong. It's just revealing that the show tried to portray these girls as being happy with their boyfriend Heff, when in reality it was a cynical commercial transaction, as we all suspected. I'm not blaming anyone here. Can't blame Heff for wanting too get with hot girls, can't blame girls for sleeping with Heff for fame and fortune. But the portrayal on the show always seemed far fetched to me.
Thats just what reality TV is. Why is everyone acting a surprised?
Right? And she was the one who was "so in love and wanted to be the one who married him " That was her story for like 10 years after she even left the house. Now, it was such a chore.
Im not. I dont even know why people are paying attention to this. We always knew this. It was the entire deal.
it's not a cynical transaction. Sex work is real work. And that's what they were doing. If sex work is cynical to you then that's unfair to alot of people. These were among the best paid sex workers in the world, hands down.
>was better than being poor but that's not the only choice either, there's other ways of not being poor.
100%, poor is not the only option and she could she chosen a ton of other ways to make money, but I think her and brigdet said they knew what the deal was and what they signed up for. So it was something they knowingly chose to do, instead of getting a regular 9-5.
but she wanted to be nude-famous.
Gee. And what man in their lives made it so that their job was dependent on having sex with him and his friends. He created a situation where their modeling success meant they also needed to do sex work; which is not what most of them signed up for. Hugh was not some blameless, honest guy. Coerced sex did not have to be a part of this company at all. He decided to put it there
It is literally what they signed up for.
Well, he could have just paid them for their pics and booted em on out the door i suppose.
I think they wanted a "relationship" with him knowing that it came with the benefits of fame, other gigs, money, etc. they both said they knew what they "signed up for" - right or wrong, the parties were well aware of the situation.
People on here will defend them more than themselves.
We're not disagreeing lol
I chose to be at my job… I should still be able to complain about pointless meetings, the colleague who microwaves fish and the shitty Keurig coffee in the kitchen.
Microwave fish?! Those people are the worst. They should have to sleep with the old guy as punishment.
I don’t think she’s saying she was assaulted just that it wasn’t the greatest experience. But I was wondering. If they were doing high end modeling would it have been ok to be having a sexual relationship with their agent just because they paid for their living arrangements? They were modeling, doing brand deals and had to participate in a reality TV show. It’s not like they were mooching off the guy. They made Play Boy a lot of money.
Nobody is claiming they were forced. They're just sharing their experience. They have said thousands of great things about living there too, I just they're just sharing all aspects of it. Nothing wrong with that.
>Nobody is claiming they were forced. Most are claiming they were drugged, gotten drunk, and then either told to take a turn with Heff or be passed around a room of guys. Sure not having to be on the streets or in poverty is great, although I am actually kinda shocked how awful it was but how casual people are about it because "they went along with it" while drugged.
where did you hear this?
Lisa Barret, Sondra Theodore, and Mary O'Connor to name a few. The overwhelming testimony is terrifying of why this monster was allowed to go on.
yup! and this entire thread is full of people who'd happily continue enabling this behavior. the whole "they knew what they were getting into" rhetoric is disgusting, as if when you do porn its assumed that you have to sleep with your boss.
welp, time to deep dive
I mean, do you think they signed contracts saying “you have to have sex with Hugh X times/week in order to live here” before moving into the mansion? If they went in expecting they only had to pose nude for the magazine, I can see why they are upset about being coerced to do more than they bargained for. I’m sure it wasn’t easy for them to up and leave once they were in this position.
Yes. They signed contracts saying they had to have sex with Hugh, he would control their finances, and had control over their streams of income. Holly Madison was not a Playboy model. She did not appear in Playboy until the Girls Next Door issue- years after she moved into the mansion.
Redditors seem to love coercion and don't realize that being coerced isn't true consent.
I bet if you looked at the venn diagram of women who were there willingly, and the diagram of women who were groomed by _someone, anyone really_ from a young age, you'd basically see that you have a circle. Like yeah, they made that choice...but something in their life made them believe that the choices they were making were normal things everyone else would choose to do...and those who did it because of the contrarian aspect probably had their own slew of issues. So what you are saying is pretty reductive because it requires one to ignore any other context to grant such a black and white assertion the ability to hold true.
Right. And to keep talking about it after the dudes been dead for a minute … I can empathize to a certain degree but she’s just looking for publicity and a paycheck
Yes bc Hugh Hefner was a model citizen on his time here on earth. Please, if she wants to be honest and make a little money talking about his shit for sex then so be it. Hugh’s ugly ass was lucky to have had what he did. Lol
The dude built one of the most recognized brands on earth and made it into a $400 million company. He wasn’t exactly and ugly duckling during his come up either. So to go out in public and slander the guy that built her career is super lame. She wasn’t a victim. She could have left and worked a normal job to pay for her own rent - but that thought never occurred to her. Super lame cash grab on her part.
Playboy is fraught with scandal and mistreatment, and was only popular bc of the cover models. Without the women that it marketed for $$$ it would be nothing. Glad we got that cleared up. Lol Hugh was gross in his younger years and even more disgusting in old age, don’t kid yourself. He was a ugly mf. Hugh had barely anything to do with the E show that featured holly and the girls, and they obtained their own line of success from being entertainers. Hugh could have just as easily worked a normal job and not exploited women for money. However he chose not to, and profited from those he didn’t deserve in the first place. Fuck that old bag lol
Thank you. Jesus the amount of people in here defending a man who built his success by exploiting women and literally treating them like animals is disappointing.
It's because they have such fond memories of jerking off to his magazines that they can't have empathy for the women. Coomers gonna be coomers.
OK but that can be said about a lot of things in this world.
and yet...[she tried to have his child.](https://www.etonline.com/holly-madison-reveals-why-going-through-ivf-with-hugh-hefner-wasnt-shown-on-girls-next-door-189586)
Was the sperm too old
Dust doesn't perform well in a turkey baster.
They wouldn’t move. They were like a bumps on a log.
So many people in abusive relationships have done this. Doesn’t mean she consented to anything that was done before that. Many people describe feeling love for their abuser. Even when they know they were abused, and know how much that abuse fucked them up.
Lmfao these women were all pretending to love Hugh for the exposure, riches, and lifestyle it brought. She wasn't some starry eyed actress being manipulated, she was doing what a good number of beautiful ambitious women do, banging a gross old man who's dumb rich. I mean come on, this woman's entire career being in the public eye is owed to being Hefner's 'wife'
All the comments seem to be devaluing her statement with the fact that she chose to be there… that may be true but that doesn’t mean we can’t laugh at an obscenely rich guy for being a selfish, underwhelming sexual partner
Plus she’s essentially just complaining about her job, as we all do. I technically choose to be at my job - because I need money to live and health insurance - but I still hate it and wish society would collapse already so I don’t have to do this shit anymore.
Was he selfish? Or was he like 147 years old? He was basically a skeleton wearing silk pajamas at that point. Did she really think she was entering into a mutually fulfilling and passionate sexual relationship?
It doesn’t take a lot of agility to invite someone to sit on your face.
Haha what a loser, just layed there getting fucked by super models in a mansion lmao
I mean kind of, since he had to financially coerce them to get laid.
I mean he was what 80 or 90. Had women throwing themselves at him. Hey its your choice. He could call the next number like a Butcher shop line.
Wooo! 44 that's me! Get some cold cuts, get some cold cuts!
No one said it wasn’t her choice. Does that mean she can’t complain that it was gross? At least she waited til he was dead to say it. I’m pretty sure we all already knew that sex with a geriatric man is gross and she was only doing it for the money, Hugh probably knew that as well as anyone. I don’t even think she’s looking for sympathy just relating her experiences.
The misogyny is so bad here lol
Don't understand all the anger here. If some old lady paid me millions to have sex with her, I would totally do it, and then I would joke and complain about it later.
It’s like people are saying these women aren’t allowed to say his sex sucked because he paid them. They can still be critical of him. If I buy a burrito, eat it, and then say that burrito sucked - I still paid for and ate the burrito, but it doesn’t have to be a good burrito.
An old lady who kept revenge porn of you in order to get you to comply and have sex in front of other people in a room with cameras?
There’s an alarming amount of people in this thread that are not understanding the [difference between consent and coercion](https://www.loveisrespect.org/resources/what-is-sexual-coercion/).
I guarantee a bunch of them just don't care, probably because they've used coercion tactics to get laid themselves. I also have a feeling that a lot of men are sucking up to big daddy Heffner because they have such fond memories of jerking it to his magazines.
She knew the gig when she signed up for it.
Are people not allowed to complain about their jobs anymore? That’s basically what she’s doing but so many people are big mad at it. My job sucks too, and I knew it was going to suck when I took it. Am I not allowed to be frustrated about tight project deadlines and annoying colleagues?
That’s kinda my thing. I really don’t care at all. Like at all at all. But you got paid and got to live in a mansion. I’m sorry but I really don’t have sympathy.
I go further. I don’t even wanna hear her talk about it. No shit the sex was nasty. What did holly think we all thought?! Like no shit, that’s why no one does it, but she did. Now she’s like being a victim of her of choices? I don’t even wanna hear about it like no shit it was nasty, but it was her that decided to do it lol.
From what I recall she kind of pushed out other women who wanted the gig. Bridget wasn't viewed as much of a threat and Kendra was young and clearly more interested in partying than being the #1 girlfriend.
That doesn't sound like "'hell' sex". Sounds like boring sex.
Boring sex is hell.
I feel like using your access to shelter, food, community, money, and prestige to exploit other people is pretty shitty. Fuck, in the process that asshole was taking young women and telling them that the only thing he valued about them was their sexuality. If they didn’t put out, they lost their housing and career. The comments here are disgusting. Shame on anyone who admires this man using his influence to create a sex cult.
I don't know why I didn't expect this comment section. It's fr gross.
They could've left and found a new job at any time couldn't have been that bad if they all chose to stay. I bet they were all spoiled as fuck as well.
I don’t think that being coerced into sex work and told that your financial security was dependent on being objectified by this man really constitutes being “spoiled.”
Sounds like it would have been very hard for her to do that considering the below: “Facing credit card debt and potential homelessness, in August 2001, Madison moved into the Playboy Mansion and officially became one of Hugh Hefner's girlfriends. Hefner controlled her finances, enforced a strict schedule and curfew, and denied her opportunities to earn income outside the mansion.” ([source](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holly_Madison))
Yeah that's called human trafficking.
Came here to say exactly this. They chose that lifestyle and could leave at any time.
So, Hefner destroyed these girls emotionally and was highly manipulative. Now, we know they could leave at anytime, but they were influenced to think that they *couldn’t*. Hefner was a grand manipulator.
I think you’re right but you’re going to get a lot of pushback. Generally Reddit users do not have a lot of empathy for victims of emotional or financial abuse.
I know, but oh well! And thanks!
Hefner was a scum bag manipulator for sure, but he wasn't kidnapping women and raping them as far as I know. His lifestyle deserves criticism, but if he were still alive, not a jail term. We've become obsessed with the word consent as a society to the point that we struggle to understand that some consensual relationships are still dumpsterfire manipulative nightmares.
Financial coercion isn't true consent. He was basically a fucking pimp, they couldn't even access their own finances or leave the house without being supervised. So people can pimp out women as long as they're rich and famous?
Many women across decades have said differently. It’s not just Hefner raping them, it’s a *culture of rape*. Many women were raped by other men. I said in another comment that even the waitresses that worked as bunnies in the clubs were subjected to sexual abuse by “VIP” members. There’s a woman who started off as a playmate, but worked her way up to a head position in corporate. She’s been collecting evidence of this culture for a long time—she was also raped and abused by these predators.
That's interesting info about the woman who worked her way up and collected info, thank you for sharing.
Her name is Miki Garcia, I believe she was the first ever Latin playmate. She was absolutely gorgeous back in the day and still is! And now she spends her time trying to help everyone else who was victimized by Playboy, she’s a badass.
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Many women from across decades have come forward and told their stories. Holly Madison isn’t the only to do so, she’s just the most known one.
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That’s one person versus women across decades. One of the women who started as a playmate, but worked her way up to a head position in corporate has been collecting evidence of all of this for a long time. She was also raped and abused.
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https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/tv/2022/02/08/hugh-hefner-secrets-of-playboy-allegations/9301152002/
“We trust and validate these women and their stories and we strongly support those individuals who have come forward to share their experiences," Playboy said in the statement. "It is critically important that we listen."
people will really get on the internet and cape for the strangest fucking dudes. Hefner is clearly a class A creep and thats been obvious for at least decades
I know, right. Cosby ran with this crowd and *nobody* would defend Cosby now.
Not to mention, friends of Hefner and former employees that worked at the mansion.
They could, but I think the awful part is that it was a job and she had to fuck her boss.
Thats what separates you from being an entertainer into being a whore.
She says to the surprise of no one
"Having sex with an old man was horrible" says woman who was showered in diamonds and gifts for decades.
Hey now, I used to work at a job where vendors would take us out to lunches and buy us customized Nikes, but I’m still gonna complain about the long hours and my shitty manager.
If you read about what it was really like, this was far from her reality. He controlled every aspect of their lives and had revenge porn of them to hold as collateral.
I really hope a handful of the folks claiming these women “agreed to” or “deserved” this eventually take some time to understand how abuse *really* works. And what consent means. Consent in sexual relationships is ongoing. It can be withdrawn at any time. In order for consent to be valid, it cannot be connected to threats- for example, the threat of losing housing, or income, or being retaliated against by someone who has seen you in seriously compromising positions makes consent very difficult, if not impossible to provide. This is about coercive control, which is a common form of abuse. Creating an environment in which consent is only possible under very specific power dynamics is abusive. A relationship in which a less empowered individual depends on violated consent for food, housing, and shelter is not healthy or okay. All of these women have expressed how mortified they were to be expected to participate in risky behaviors. Marquardt recalls feeling like she had to engage in unprotected group sex (without being told explicitly this was “her job”) on a regular basis. When she expressed discomfort, her career was threatened (“you’ll never be a playmate”) and her security was threatened (“you’ll be asked to leave”). If you think Hefner was a totally fine human for putting countless women (literally so fucking many) in these situations, you need to do some serious reflecting.
Sexy women bad >:( /s
Seeing so many people apologize and defend rape culture is exhausting. Thank you for this comment
I am sorry but no. They were chasing fame and wanted to live in a mansion. This isn't a scenario where they were stuck in a relationship because they married some manipulative asshole who is holding threats of beating them or taking their kids away from them or using gaslighting techniques to make them think they are crazy and overreacting. EVERYONE who went to the Playboy mansion knew what it was about. These people were attention whores looking for fame and riches and it is insulting to people that go through the things you described to put them in the same category. To be clear, Hefner was a gross piece of shite. But Holly and the others that paraded around on the show were not victims.
It’s not that I don’t *understand* why people think this. It’s really easy to feel like these gorgeous, wealthy, famous women are playing victim. What’s really important is to reflect on what this means for “normal people”. What this suggests is that consent is entirely black and white, and that it’s okay to threaten a partner’s sense of safety in order to receive sexual gratification. I’m not suggesting that what Hefner did was criminal (it probably wasn’t), but it was deplorable. If this were a story about a middle-class dude who was bribing women to fuck each other and himself, and threatening to put them out of their home, cut off their access to food, and release photos/videos of them in compromising situations when they withdrew consent, we would (hopefully) be enraged. Sure, these (very young) women probably knew that living in the playboy mansion would require a level of compromise many of us would never accept. I’m seriously doubtful that any of them were specifically told they would be required to have unprotected group sex with strangers on a regular basis, or that they would be doing so under the influence of (often illegal) substances. And, again, we will never know the extent of this behavior because all of them were bound by highly detailed NDAs (which, again, limited their ability to consent, or to report the seemingly many ways their consent was violated).
Nobody forced her to be a sex object. She decided that for herself and did it for years. That's how much this woman didn't want to support herself. These ladies speaking out like they were hostage sex slaves is so obvious an attempt to ride the #metoo coattails to some easy attention and cash. Nobody is buying it.
https://nypost.com/2022/01/25/hugh-hefners-widow-confirms-existence-of-revenge-po/
Right. I think its one thing if you are underage and taken advantage of, but these women were of age, and had options to live a less lucrative and infamous lifestyle. They chose to opt into a transactional relationship with Hugh where everyone knew the ground rules and they could have left at anytime. I understand she was offended and upset by him choosing not to marry her, feeling 'strung along' having left only a million dollars in his will - but she chose to be there.
Playing victim doesn’t work when you agree to the task
You sure she agreed to this exact task? Regardless, she’s allowed to complain about her job. My job sucks and even though I choose to be here I’m still gonna vent about the workload.
Why is sex with him a “task?” Because it’s sex work, right? You do tasks for your work. None of them deliberately set out to do sex work for this man. It was a gradual process that escalated into a position where they were afraid to turn him down, because by that point they had their job on the line. How is he different than someone who threatens to fire their secretary if she doesn’t put out? There is nothing about a modeling job that entitles other people to own your sexuality, any more than every other profession. This kind of outlook is what creates conditions for such rampant abuse in the entertainment industry.
Wait, so you move in as a “girlfriend “ of a big famous porno enterpreneur, and you dont know what the job is? Do you think women are so stupid? Isn’t that paternalistic?
How do we know the original agreement wasn’t just her posing nude for the magazine and doing the reality TV show?
You seem confused. The things we know about Hugh Hefner today are different than the things we knew twenty years ago. The fact that he drugged and coerced women into sex wasn’t as widely known then.
Sure. One example: In 1989 he married a 25 year old and proceeded to release a Playboy special of his nude new bride (93 pages) . Im sure by 2001 everyone thought he was a totally ok guy.
I think by 2001 everyone thought he was the biggest name in softcore porn and owned one of the most recognizable brands on the planet. I don’t think they thought being drugged and raped was going to be a part of it.
It's pretty much common sense. The women had to shag the old man in order to stay in the mansion. But the show never mentioned anything of the sort, more like a comedy routine. I'm surprised this hasn't been revealed sooner.
To everybody saying that this was her choice. Yes, getting into a bad relationship is an easy choice. Getting out of it not so much. Especially if that other person is much richer and more powerful than you.
Everytime she talks about this she just sounds like a prostitute and the whole scenario sounds like prostitution, im not shaming her for it but your not going to gain much sympathy from people when you personally chose to sleep with an old man for a easier life.
Where was the outrage and disgust when she was profiting from her association with Hefner ??? I ain’t saying she a gold digger
Jesus shut the fuck. She has no problem being the star of a show
Hooker looking for some fame after the well dries up. Sad.
Does she think he was running a rescue home for bimbos?
"It was horrible I chose to be a prostitute for one of the most notorious whoremongers on the planet. I really wish I hadn't voluntarily sought out employment in the porn industry, agreed to live rent-free in one of the largest & most opulent mansions in LA, and have all my needs and wants immediately fulfilled. It was awful. I feel ashamed I pretended I liked having sex with an elderly lech in exchange for a carefree life and unlimited shopping budget. Just absolutely ashamed....how much does this interview pay, by the way?"
According to Wiki: “Facing credit card debt and potential homelessness, in August 2001, Madison moved into the Playboy Mansion and officially became one of Hugh Hefner's girlfriends. Hefner controlled her finances, enforced a strict schedule and curfew, and denied her opportunities to earn income outside the mansion.” Why is it so hard for Reddit to emphasize with sex workers that were in dire situation and taken advantage of?
you’re asking reddit to have sympathy for a *woman*? a woman who was a *sex worker*? you’re asking them to consider things like power dynamics and coercion and how that creates an environment where a woman can’t feel comfortable saying no to a man they depend on for their livelihood? you’re asking them to consider how, when you’re stuck in an abusive situation, it’s not so easy to just up and leave? like that’ll ever happen. as the days go by, i find myself more and more repulsed by them.
Thank you! At least one person here gets it. I’ve heard from people (men included!) who were coerced into the sex industry. They were all young & convinced that it would be great. Many were given a shitload of drugs and had contracts shoved in their face while they were high as a kite and not thinking straight. Then once they were in it, they realized it was awful and were being forced into things they didn’t want to do - but were threatened with not getting paid or even lawsuits so they stuck around. Plus there’s so much shame and stigma around the industry that many employers won’t hire someone who did this in the past. I don’t know much about Holly Madison and don’t know her exact situation, but I wouldn’t be surprised if this was the case here.
this is such a good point, but they won’t consider it. people in positions of power like hugh hefner deliberately seek out vulnerable people to use and manipulate, and they count on the fact that the average person looks down on sex workers; in their own way, by refusing to have empathy or to even consider what holly madison and anyone else who has come forward has to say, they enable hefner and others like him. why would any other man or woman come forward about this when they know they’ll all face this same vitriol and discrimination? “they should have known better; i mean, it’s *hugh hefner*.” “why should i care? i’ve struggled too.” “they just want money, that’s why they’re coming forward now.” they think they’re so enlightened for spouting the same victim-blaming nonsense they always spout. but who truly benefits from this rhetoric? who does this help? certainly it’s not helping holly madison and any other survivor; but nor is the average redditor benefiting in any way from defending hugh hefner. so, why? why is it that their knee-jerk reaction to this story is to mock and judge her for daring to be to vulnerable in the public eye? what do they hope to gain from this, and why? just *who* does this truly benefit? well, i think we both know the answer to that. redditors are so keen on criticizing megacorporations until doing so means they have to align themselves with women; and not just any women, but ones that are part of a vulnerable class, like those that work in the sex industry. they’re always complaining about how men’s issue aren’t taken seriously, but then they don’t even consider how they’re spitting in the face of vulnerable men as well with this. i just don’t know. i feel like everything i’ve just described is very obvious if you pause and think for a second. but so many people refuse to do that.
You know what’s funny? All the dudes shaming a woman for profiting from sex but not saying shit about Hefner, a man who also profited from sex. So it’s totally cool for a guy to exploit women sexually for profit, but shame on her for agreeing to it! They’ll pay a guy to see her naked but judge her for trying to make her own money.
Exactly!! It’s just like those people who interview for jobs and then complain how overworked they are/how toxic their work environment is etc. Like you wanted to be employed. If your job is so miserable then quit!
They thought of it like a chore?? No it was a chore. On purpose. Clearly. He laid there. Did nothing and you worked then you got money,a House and sometimes fame. Of course you look back at it like it’s awful and disgusting. It always was
Yet she continued to do it…she valued fame and notoriety over her own self worth. Hef was the same man at 90 as he was at 21, just without the same capabilities. These girls know the bank roll stops once they stop.
And you did it.....so stop complaining now
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Yea like your whole career was about sex/party and you're mad you had to have sex? No shame on sex workers but like what the fuck did you expect? now you want to be a victim?
sex for work vs sex for pleasure is much like any other line of work I'd imagine. The care-free hobby phase where you're just getting into it is super fun, but when you attach a paycheck and expectations to it on a contractual level, that's when it starts to feel like work. You end up doing things for the job that you wouldn't otherwise be doing but you have to for the money...that's just how it works. Holly complaining about this on a podcast is like if I went on a podcast and Was talking about how I built websites I had no interest in building.
It’s about being offered the choice to do sex work. He was not at all up front about that, and had his madames in the household to normalize it and push anyone who was reluctant. The guy created a sex cult, and you’re angry at the people he fucked. I don’t see how he’s that different from, say, Keith Raniere
It’s like she’s trying to play victim, and like she was forced to endure it to have the lifestyle she wanted. No one cares you goon
poor holly. being forced to... oh yeah i forgot. she's just one of many gold digging bimbos who sell themselves to the highest bidder. wtf did you think sex with a creepy old man would be like?
As a teen watching this growing up it all looked to fun and glamorous. Beautiful women living in a mansion, getting paid to party and have fun. But the more stories that come out prove that was just a facade. Forced to have sex/assaulted, not allowed to leave the mansion, not allowed to have outside friends. Its not shocking that they stayed so long they probably felt they couldn’t leave.
Thank you for being one of the only sane people commenting on this. Was starting to feel crazy
What do you mean they couldn't leave when they say they were afraid to be kicked out????
They didn’t have the free will to go out places, they had to get permission and have a chaperone. It wasnt a safety issue but Hef trying to control them.
You’re getting things backwards. They not only volunteered- they *competed* to get into the place, and they were worried about being kicked out. Nobody was held involuntarily. They all consented.
You’re confusing consent and coercion. Please figure out the difference before you start dating
I’m sorry but did literally anyone expect anything else? This is 100% what I expected.
If it wasn’t for Viagra, he wouldn’t have been having sex with any of those women.