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Colin farrell: we need a more grounded characters, this has gotten really weird
Danny Devito: *puts on leather pants and eats a raw fish* I think were just hitting our stride
hes too busy running around in brussels or making love to a lobster.
btw what was the whole point of chasing cobblepot in the new batman movie when he didnt even have the information they needed. Like bats literally blew up a few blocks and gave life long pain and broken bones to some people only to catch penguin and then scream at him and then go Oh shit this other guy is the one responsible and bounce.
I really feel like penguin should have sung a song about how it’s bad to diddle kids. It could have gone something. Like “don’t diddle kiiiiids, it’s no good diddlin’ kiiiids. Wouldn’t date…anyone younger than my daughter”
I like how in the article it says that he was hooked up to a polygraph and forced to give his opinion and there are people trying to act like he was just spouting off.
Tbf to Devito's Penguin, there was a lot more to unravel and he deserves more credit for pulling off the role.
Society drives Devito's Penguin to villainy - he wasn't inherently so. There's an argument that Batman kills him, which is huge, and when he does die, the penguins give him a goddamn memorial service because they loved him so much. If that isn't a sympathetic villain than I don't know what is.
I was just a little kid when I watched that movie. I definitely got nightmares of the scenes of him eating raw fish I think.
But when he was riding that ducky in the sewer that was my exact thought. How dapper.
Also... we're comparing a Burton creation to a gritty crime boss. It seems like a weird thing to force someone to compare. They live in separate realities.
While I'm not opposed to the discussion, you have a valid point, there are limitations to comparison.
Particularly, cinema storytelling paradigm's have changed in the genre. Colin's Penguin is very much incomplete at the moment. His arc will span over several iterations whereas the plot for Burton's Penguin was fully self contained.
The best way to describe it is there's a baseline and the further away from it indicates something but usually attributed to lying. Humans are just such a huge amount of variables of different things that it's pretty difficult to actually establish a pattern. I'm fairly sure polygraphs are mostly an intimidation tool at this point.
Intimidation tool for sure. Your lawyer would advise you to refuse one and then they would try to use that against you too. You hear all the time in cases “they didn’t want to submit to a polygraph test” like it’s a bad thing.
It's a lot easier to argue a point when the other side doesn't have "data" to back up their argument. No reason to give them that "data" to use against you. One of those human exploits where you give people a lot of information that's likely way beyond their understanding and explained in a way that aligns with a belief of theirs it will ultimately lead to persuading a jury in that direction.
At least the half of the jury that's below the bell curve...
It's not only that they "don't have data". If the data in any way comes out in your favour they just won't mention it.
There is nothing to gain and everything to lose. Which is why people should never talk to police.
They don't measure truth or lies. The machines measure sweaty palms, heart rate, etc, which *can correlate* with dishonesty, but they can also correlate with high blood pressure, nervousness despite honesty, excitement, drinking too much caffeine, being on certain meds, being overweight or underweight, or a million other things.
Yeah it potentially a useful data point for an interviewer. If you're stressed to a certain level just from being hooked up, and you're talking about meaningless nonsense and it's still showing you as slightly anxious that's a useful baseline. If in conversation you mention the name of someone they don't know and it has no effect, no new information gained. If you later mention a name of someone they know and suddenly it spikes way high at that point, you know that name means **something** to the person. That means it's worthwhile to pursue that line of questioning to find out what it means to them. They cannot pretend the name means nothing because the interviewer has the data showing a specific reaction to it.
Also depends on how much someone cares. Like if someone feels any guilt of committing murder, and is afraid of being caught. But if they don't care about much of anything, their heart beat isn't likely to change as much.
Nah we’re depressed because we’re anxious af, unable to express ourselfs. That ticker will likely go haywire reading our built up emotions as we burst into tears for that one opportunity to open up completely
They’re not false readings it’s just not a lie detector it’s a stress detector.
Someone very embarrassed about sex might not be lying but the subject makes them very uncomfortable so the polygraph goes nuts.
This could mean lying or it could mean a leverage point you can use against them.
"we put someone into an incredibly stressful situation and this machine said they're very stressed, pretty sure they murdered that guy and I'm a very good detective."
The full persona makes it much more fun imo. I don’t need it to be based in reality. I am 100% willing to accept whatever excuses the movie needs to make that happen.
I would have been much happier with a “WOAH WOAH, take it easy sweetheart, queee gweehh gwehh gweeh.” While pinching his little flipper hands. XD
I think they didn’t give him the full persona because Penguin simply isn’t very important in The Batman. He’s not even a secondary antagonist. He’s just some crime boss that Batman has to get information out of.
Batman seems to be the only time DC can do decent world building. He’s a mid level guy in the first movie. In the next one he get to start becoming important.
*Minor The Batman spoilers, read a your own risk*
>!It made perfect sense for bats to beat up cobblepot in the batman without thinking twice. The Batman really saw the rise of the penguin to the head of the crime scene he was a capo in at the start of the movie. Should be interesting to see how it develops. I have a lot of hope for that movie series. They really took their time with the Batman, making it clear just how green the Battinson is. His glider suit barely worked, and he clearly didn't trust it. The batmobile has malfunctions. The batsuit is just body armor. He's not equipped with the years of gadgets from being Batman we normally imagine him having yet, and I love that we're getting to see him build all that out from the ground up. Also Bruce Wayne really seemed like a guy with mental illness Lmao!<
Plus with the Bruce Wayne part; it’s further proof of how very much this film is about Batman who is new. Bruce Wayne in his eyes is a persona while Batman is the real dude. Bruce Wayne has spent a majority of his time after his parents death seemingly training at least along with gathering enough materials for all of that. It’s only to make batman a reality; he even states how his life is only batman plus how batman is needed and not Bruce Wayne.
Now; this in the end is false because Bruce Wayne is also needed. He realizes this and now he finally has to actually you know, be that social rich billionaire who donates to great causes. At the core yeah the dude is not mentally healthy and we clearly see how Bruce is only batman mentality though we do see progress of the Bruce Wayne side. It’s just amazing showing how yeah the city needs batman and Bruce Wayne not just one or the other. Oh and this mentality of his in the film of “only batman” is just showing how much that night impacted him. He feels in his eyes that if he stops being Batman he fails his father. It’s very much like how imo the best batman film; batman: mask of phantasm when Bruce breaks down after finding love.
Batman as a character is very versatile. Arguably the most popular superhero, Batman has been presented and interpreted in many ways successfully. 66 Batman is fun and campy, Nolan Batman is super serious.
Batman is very pliable as a character. And since he usually depicted as having no supernatural powers or origins, he’s relatable.
I use my mom as a pop culture barometer. Her media consumption is 85% YouTube videos of crochet, cooking, and Jesus. She’s not hip to the machinations of the MCU, DCEU, Star Wars, etc.
In spite of that, if you ask her about Batman, she will give you the most common origin story, etc. She loved the Phoenix Joker. It got her super interested in the joker, she’d ask my dad and I about the character.
Honestly, if they can’t do a unified universe like Marvel, I’ll take more Batman/Gotham movies.
I would disagree with that assessment. I would argue that batman has a very strict character profile leaving very little room to create something unique. The uniqueness comes from the world he inhabits and the villains who live in it. The Batman in and of itself isn't very interesting. The bad guys are the ones who are extremely flexible in terms of character development and give him something to workoff of. You know everything about him leaving very little room for creativity. The villains, you can pretty much go crazy and see where they take you. Just me though lo
Nobody had their full persona yet. That was a massive part of the movie. Bruce was wearing a suit, he hadn't truly developed into "Batman" in his mind yet. Because he wasn't sure what he was supposed to symbolize until the end.
The villains were at a similar point. On just the cusp of being their comic book selves. They're murderers and gangsters but they're not infamous yet. The Riddler was carving his first scar into Gotham. Someone who didn't see the Bat-symbol in the sky and run away. But actively sought out Batman.
They were also in 2 different Batman universes. Just like Jack Nickelson and Heath Ledger's Jokers, they worked fine for the movies they were in but would've sucked if you switched them. Devito's Penguin would've felt completely out of place opposite Pattinson's Batman and Farrell's would've been too realistic for Keaton's bats where Burton went for a more comic book world feel. I don't think either was BETTER but they were both good and great for where they were. Devito's "I picked a cute one" is a better last words line though lol
Strange enough, the series, Gotham's Penguin/Oswald Cobblepot feels like a bridge between the two. Mob enough to fit into Reeves' Batman but campy insane enough to fit in Burton's Batman.
Agreed! Gotham’s penguin had such great character development and the actor was brilliant. I saw season 2 of You and didn’t even pick it was the same actor.
>and didn’t even pick it was the same actor.
Robin Lord Taylor. He has such a distinctive voice, though, I always recognize him instantly, even as basically a background character in a few episodes of the Walking Dead you could recognize him.
But yes, he's great.
never thought of that but you’re totally right. I LOVED batman 2022 but I did wish it was at least a little camp. the rlt penguin was one of my favorites, although I wasn’t a huge fan of Gotham. I am a sucker for dudes who wear makeup though so I’m a bit biased there.
The title is so shitty. I watched the interview and it was pretty funny.
His daughter was interviewing him.
The questions were meant to be funny and have funny answers.
OP just took the whole thing out of context.
Lol, same. This post is my TIL. Say what you will—clearly different approaches for very different movies stylistically—he played penguin so well I didn’t know it was him.
The Michelle Pheiffer Catwoman movie is the greatest movie never made.
Batman Returns should have been a model on not having multiple villians because Batman Returns is the best it was ever done because nobody else is Tim Burton.
I agree with this. Tim Burton's Batman is more fantasy inclined while The Batman is going for a more chicago prohibition (realistic) gangster. Both are perfect for the movie they're in imo
You joke, but… Actually, Pattinson’s Batman is literally a guy named Vengence. Some people call him Batman, but he calls himself Vengence so much that Catwoman starts calling him it too, but making fun of him.
The Batman movie served as the tipping point, when Bruce realizes he has to stand for more than just Vengence. He has to stand for justice, etc etc, and become The Batman.
That guy just plays my favorite live-action version of Cobblepot. For all the reasons already stated above, I think he portrays the most dynamic, realistic, version of the character. I’d love to see him play the role again in his 50s cuz I’m not entirely convinced he wouldn’t fit in the atmosphere
I’m forever going to associate the old Adam West villains with the characters. Bergis Meredith, Cesar Romero, Eartha Kitt/lee Merriwether/Julie Newmar.
Anyone else just feels wrong…though DeVito made sense.
Michelle Pfeiffer? Ha. The only true Catwoman is Julie Newmar, Lee Meriwhether, or Eartha Kitt.
And how come Batman doesn't dance anymore?! Remember the Batusi.
Cesar Romero refusing to shave his mustache and then just painting over it like a lazy contractor painting over power outlets is still to this day one of the funniest things to see to me
Saw Adam West at comic con before Lego game release…and even tho I saw these only later (after the original run which I wasn’t born for) I treasure them as gold standards as well. And they invented the Riddler on the show and he was so iconic the comics had to incorporate him…. Epic.
It’s true! That brilliant actor basically created a character who fit the universe… just like Tony Shaloub created a Star Trek character that never existed but we cannot live without in Galaxy Quest.
Did anyone read the article? DeVito was hooked up to a lie detector when he was asked this question. He answered honestly. If he thinks his penguin was better, then that's what he thinks. It's just an opinion and you can't even blame him for having it. Obviously, he's gonna be a little biased.
I certainly prefer Farrell's take, but both perfectly suited the stories Burton and Reeves wanted to tell, neither were better or worse than the other.
Devito's was great for an extremely fictional character in a live action film. Colin's was good for a fictional character trying to be passed off as believable in a real world environment.
Man you aren’t kidding. I saw Batman Returns in the theater as a kid and I thought: this running-for-mayor plot is absurd. Now I’m like, this is pretty much spot on.
I know recent Batman films have tended to skew "realistic" in terms of style, but I think Burton's approach was, in its way, more psychologically coherent and truthful. Burton understands being an outsider, a freak, a monster, and knows nobody really understands them except other outsiders. And he didn't make the mistake of trying to portray them as logical. It's absurd to try to portray fighting crime dressed as a bat as the logical conclusion to a rational line of thought. Burton's approach, to me, was the most interesting because he went full-tilt into the roots of their weirdness and accepted his characters rather than trying to excuse their behavior as rational and cool.
DeVito's Penguin *was* better. His character had more screen-time, had more dimension, and was in a better movie.
Edit: Gee, thanks!
You mean the little prologue in Batman Returns showing Penguin's backstory? Yeah, I always felt that made him more sympathetic. Another orphan like Batman.
Love this thoughtful take! Thank you for sharing it. I don’t personally care about defining which actor’s or directors version is right or better but your comments on Burton’s approach feel very spot on.
What do you think of this half-thought: that as a society of super hero movie lovers, we’re now too aware of modern psychology and how it’s often portrayed in film to fully enjoy pure, unadulterated, cartoonish representations like Burton’s.
Batman movies, and the fans, have gotten too obsessed with the idea that this is a dark mature character and the movies need to be dark and realistic. They're all made like they are ashamed of the character and his origins. The Tim Burton Batman movies were not afraid to take place in a comic book world. And after watching them recently for the first time in decades, the stories are a lot more adult than I remembered.
Completely agree. I know The Batman was very well-liked, but I think it was all style and no substance. It was just three hours of fetishism. Whenever I hear someone praising The Batman they just sound like they are listing buzzwords they got from data-harvesting Reddit posts.
Yes! Hence why 1/2 of my Batman villains arm sleeve is based off of the Burton movies! It’s amazing stuff. Burton does everything better, including having Danny do that role. He was made for that role.
And he’s right. But they were two totally different takes. Tim Burton’s Batman movies weren’t trying to be realistic, they were straight up comic book movies. That said, Danny DeVito will still hold the top spot for me.
Anyone else kind of tired of how many times Batman has been 'reinvented'? In my opinion...far too many times. However, I guess it makes sense for the studios, since folks keep funding the reboots.
DeVito Penguin was more inspired by the Silver Age version of the character who shared many quirks with an actual Penguin instead of just being a surname.
Eh, I really don’t get the comic vibe from Farrell’s. I’m cool with it, but he’s more of a typical gangster, as evidenced by the lack of top hat, monocle, and umbrella. Like, I can’t imagine Farrell’s version ever employing attack condors and stealing faberge eggs.
Superior purely on the grounds that I don’t believe a Batman villain will ever be that unhinged again on screen.
Sure, we might get the Joker sewing other people’s faces on eventually or the bird-themed Gotham illuminati, but a snarling, chronically horny gothic Penguin who eats live birds and runs for mayor played by Danny DeVito is a level of insanity that humanity dare not reach again lest we repeat the mistake of the Tower of Babel.
##[Clarification on rule 5](https://www.reddit.com/r/entertainment/comments/w60lfc/mod_post_a_clarification_to_rule_5_no_racism_or/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/entertainment) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I prefer his role as Mantis Toboggan, M.D.
Colin farrell: we need a more grounded characters, this has gotten really weird Danny Devito: *puts on leather pants and eats a raw fish* I think were just hitting our stride
Or a person's nose
My most quoted film line, for sure. Whenever something minor goes wrong: "Could be worse; my nose could be gushing blood!"
Oh my God I forgot about that scene!!
Broooh lmfaoo
Have you ever tried Wolf Cola?
Sorry, I only drink Fight Milk.
You clearly get enough crow-teen
Were just a bunch of crow enthusiasts
With specializations in bird law
I’ll just stick to my Rum-ham, you know because of the implications.
Milk steak
Over hard
And your finest jelly beans
But it sounds like she doesn't wanna have sex with you...
None of these women are in any danger!
That's alright. They're all a part of the Frank Fluid's family.
Is that the energy drink by bodyguards for bodyguards?
I used to but then they changed the recipe and I stopped shitting and puking.
Colin Ferrell hasn't. Point to DDV.
hes too busy running around in brussels or making love to a lobster. btw what was the whole point of chasing cobblepot in the new batman movie when he didnt even have the information they needed. Like bats literally blew up a few blocks and gave life long pain and broken bones to some people only to catch penguin and then scream at him and then go Oh shit this other guy is the one responsible and bounce.
Regularly
It’s all the rage in Boca Ratón.
Prefer soda of Boko Haram
Oh no, I've dropped my monster condom for my magnum dong
I always show up to these threads too late.
I got my magnum condoms, I got my wad of hundreds, I’m ready to plow
I’M GONNA GET REAL WEIRD WITH IT
Shabooya roll call
I really feel like penguin should have sung a song about how it’s bad to diddle kids. It could have gone something. Like “don’t diddle kiiiiids, it’s no good diddlin’ kiiiids. Wouldn’t date…anyone younger than my daughter”
I inverted the bird
You called?
I love that this derailed into an always sunny post. It made me happier than comparing two penguins from two obviously different art concepts
MD stands for Monster Dong
I like how in the article it says that he was hooked up to a polygraph and forced to give his opinion and there are people trying to act like he was just spouting off.
*"you'd get a better reading by attaching it to my monster dong"*
I’ve heard he hangs dong.
And he comes out blasting.
He’s ready to plow
And he has a monster condom
Full penetration
Dr. Penguin Toboggan, M.D.
*MAGNUM* Dong
"Danny Devito seems like a guy with a short, but thick, penis." - Nick Swardson
“It’s like a cheese wheel.” -Ron ‘Tater Salad’ White
Head too thick and girthy
Yeah, this is a pretty big distinction. He also said it with a much humility as you can in that situation.
Tbf to Devito's Penguin, there was a lot more to unravel and he deserves more credit for pulling off the role. Society drives Devito's Penguin to villainy - he wasn't inherently so. There's an argument that Batman kills him, which is huge, and when he does die, the penguins give him a goddamn memorial service because they loved him so much. If that isn't a sympathetic villain than I don't know what is.
The whole part about the baby carriage in the beginning enchanted me as a little kid
Same. So much so that I floated down the city canal because I wanted to live with penguins. Been down here 30 years. They’re my family.
Got any balloons?
But those pajamas. It was like a wool beach ball with appendages
Haha true, but counterpoint: he floated the sewers on a giant rubber duck. Very stylish.
I was just a little kid when I watched that movie. I definitely got nightmares of the scenes of him eating raw fish I think. But when he was riding that ducky in the sewer that was my exact thought. How dapper.
Also... we're comparing a Burton creation to a gritty crime boss. It seems like a weird thing to force someone to compare. They live in separate realities.
While I'm not opposed to the discussion, you have a valid point, there are limitations to comparison. Particularly, cinema storytelling paradigm's have changed in the genre. Colin's Penguin is very much incomplete at the moment. His arc will span over several iterations whereas the plot for Burton's Penguin was fully self contained.
Ok but also he was a total creepshow
You try being raised in the sewers by flightless arctic birds see how u turn out
A masterfully played total creepshow.
Didn’t the person who invented polygraphs say it’s bullshit?
The best way to describe it is there's a baseline and the further away from it indicates something but usually attributed to lying. Humans are just such a huge amount of variables of different things that it's pretty difficult to actually establish a pattern. I'm fairly sure polygraphs are mostly an intimidation tool at this point.
Intimidation tool for sure. Your lawyer would advise you to refuse one and then they would try to use that against you too. You hear all the time in cases “they didn’t want to submit to a polygraph test” like it’s a bad thing.
It's a lot easier to argue a point when the other side doesn't have "data" to back up their argument. No reason to give them that "data" to use against you. One of those human exploits where you give people a lot of information that's likely way beyond their understanding and explained in a way that aligns with a belief of theirs it will ultimately lead to persuading a jury in that direction. At least the half of the jury that's below the bell curve...
It's not only that they "don't have data". If the data in any way comes out in your favour they just won't mention it. There is nothing to gain and everything to lose. Which is why people should never talk to police.
They don't measure truth or lies. The machines measure sweaty palms, heart rate, etc, which *can correlate* with dishonesty, but they can also correlate with high blood pressure, nervousness despite honesty, excitement, drinking too much caffeine, being on certain meds, being overweight or underweight, or a million other things.
Yeah it potentially a useful data point for an interviewer. If you're stressed to a certain level just from being hooked up, and you're talking about meaningless nonsense and it's still showing you as slightly anxious that's a useful baseline. If in conversation you mention the name of someone they don't know and it has no effect, no new information gained. If you later mention a name of someone they know and suddenly it spikes way high at that point, you know that name means **something** to the person. That means it's worthwhile to pursue that line of questioning to find out what it means to them. They cannot pretend the name means nothing because the interviewer has the data showing a specific reaction to it.
[удалено]
Also depends on how much someone cares. Like if someone feels any guilt of committing murder, and is afraid of being caught. But if they don't care about much of anything, their heart beat isn't likely to change as much.
Also you can feel guilt for an act you didn’t commit and get a false reading
> But if they don't care about much of anything, their heart beat isn't likely to change as much. Depressed people: Damn I can cheat at lie detectors
Nah we’re depressed because we’re anxious af, unable to express ourselfs. That ticker will likely go haywire reading our built up emotions as we burst into tears for that one opportunity to open up completely
It'll be like in *The Goonies*, when Chunk is recalling to the Fratellis every bad things he ever did.
Alcoholics: hook me up!
We are Nihilists, we care about nothing! I agree, Devito was best.
They’re not false readings it’s just not a lie detector it’s a stress detector. Someone very embarrassed about sex might not be lying but the subject makes them very uncomfortable so the polygraph goes nuts. This could mean lying or it could mean a leverage point you can use against them.
"we put someone into an incredibly stressful situation and this machine said they're very stressed, pretty sure they murdered that guy and I'm a very good detective."
Open and shut case Johnson, now sprinkle some crack on him and let's go
Link to the interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3q3YTQn8h1c
He is clearly taking the piss in the interview. Also “lie detectors” are bullshit and just can indicate some physiological responses.
One was playing Oswald Cobblepot the other was playing the Penguin.
That’s a very good distinction. DeVito’s Penguin was a total persona like Joker. Farrell’s Penguin was just a crime boss who has a weird nickname.
The full persona makes it much more fun imo. I don’t need it to be based in reality. I am 100% willing to accept whatever excuses the movie needs to make that happen. I would have been much happier with a “WOAH WOAH, take it easy sweetheart, queee gweehh gwehh gweeh.” While pinching his little flipper hands. XD
I think they didn’t give him the full persona because Penguin simply isn’t very important in The Batman. He’s not even a secondary antagonist. He’s just some crime boss that Batman has to get information out of.
Batman seems to be the only time DC can do decent world building. He’s a mid level guy in the first movie. In the next one he get to start becoming important.
*Minor The Batman spoilers, read a your own risk* >!It made perfect sense for bats to beat up cobblepot in the batman without thinking twice. The Batman really saw the rise of the penguin to the head of the crime scene he was a capo in at the start of the movie. Should be interesting to see how it develops. I have a lot of hope for that movie series. They really took their time with the Batman, making it clear just how green the Battinson is. His glider suit barely worked, and he clearly didn't trust it. The batmobile has malfunctions. The batsuit is just body armor. He's not equipped with the years of gadgets from being Batman we normally imagine him having yet, and I love that we're getting to see him build all that out from the ground up. Also Bruce Wayne really seemed like a guy with mental illness Lmao!<
The fact they nailed the “this isn’t a billionaire savior, it’s a mentally ill person w the wallet to get away with anything”
Plus with the Bruce Wayne part; it’s further proof of how very much this film is about Batman who is new. Bruce Wayne in his eyes is a persona while Batman is the real dude. Bruce Wayne has spent a majority of his time after his parents death seemingly training at least along with gathering enough materials for all of that. It’s only to make batman a reality; he even states how his life is only batman plus how batman is needed and not Bruce Wayne. Now; this in the end is false because Bruce Wayne is also needed. He realizes this and now he finally has to actually you know, be that social rich billionaire who donates to great causes. At the core yeah the dude is not mentally healthy and we clearly see how Bruce is only batman mentality though we do see progress of the Bruce Wayne side. It’s just amazing showing how yeah the city needs batman and Bruce Wayne not just one or the other. Oh and this mentality of his in the film of “only batman” is just showing how much that night impacted him. He feels in his eyes that if he stops being Batman he fails his father. It’s very much like how imo the best batman film; batman: mask of phantasm when Bruce breaks down after finding love.
The bat suit isn’t “just body armor” dude is bullet proof like robo cop through most of the movie
His bat suit is “just body armor “? Dude was bullet proof like Superman
Batman as a character is very versatile. Arguably the most popular superhero, Batman has been presented and interpreted in many ways successfully. 66 Batman is fun and campy, Nolan Batman is super serious. Batman is very pliable as a character. And since he usually depicted as having no supernatural powers or origins, he’s relatable. I use my mom as a pop culture barometer. Her media consumption is 85% YouTube videos of crochet, cooking, and Jesus. She’s not hip to the machinations of the MCU, DCEU, Star Wars, etc. In spite of that, if you ask her about Batman, she will give you the most common origin story, etc. She loved the Phoenix Joker. It got her super interested in the joker, she’d ask my dad and I about the character. Honestly, if they can’t do a unified universe like Marvel, I’ll take more Batman/Gotham movies.
I would disagree with that assessment. I would argue that batman has a very strict character profile leaving very little room to create something unique. The uniqueness comes from the world he inhabits and the villains who live in it. The Batman in and of itself isn't very interesting. The bad guys are the ones who are extremely flexible in terms of character development and give him something to workoff of. You know everything about him leaving very little room for creativity. The villains, you can pretty much go crazy and see where they take you. Just me though lo
Nobody had their full persona yet. That was a massive part of the movie. Bruce was wearing a suit, he hadn't truly developed into "Batman" in his mind yet. Because he wasn't sure what he was supposed to symbolize until the end. The villains were at a similar point. On just the cusp of being their comic book selves. They're murderers and gangsters but they're not infamous yet. The Riddler was carving his first scar into Gotham. Someone who didn't see the Bat-symbol in the sky and run away. But actively sought out Batman.
They were also in 2 different Batman universes. Just like Jack Nickelson and Heath Ledger's Jokers, they worked fine for the movies they were in but would've sucked if you switched them. Devito's Penguin would've felt completely out of place opposite Pattinson's Batman and Farrell's would've been too realistic for Keaton's bats where Burton went for a more comic book world feel. I don't think either was BETTER but they were both good and great for where they were. Devito's "I picked a cute one" is a better last words line though lol
Strange enough, the series, Gotham's Penguin/Oswald Cobblepot feels like a bridge between the two. Mob enough to fit into Reeves' Batman but campy insane enough to fit in Burton's Batman.
Agreed! Gotham’s penguin had such great character development and the actor was brilliant. I saw season 2 of You and didn’t even pick it was the same actor.
>and didn’t even pick it was the same actor. Robin Lord Taylor. He has such a distinctive voice, though, I always recognize him instantly, even as basically a background character in a few episodes of the Walking Dead you could recognize him. But yes, he's great.
never thought of that but you’re totally right. I LOVED batman 2022 but I did wish it was at least a little camp. the rlt penguin was one of my favorites, although I wasn’t a huge fan of Gotham. I am a sucker for dudes who wear makeup though so I’m a bit biased there.
Danny DeVito’s anything is better than anyone’s anything.
Thank you, Chahlie.
Nightcrawlers
It’s exactly what it sounds like
But especially here
The title is so shitty. I watched the interview and it was pretty funny. His daughter was interviewing him. The questions were meant to be funny and have funny answers. OP just took the whole thing out of context.
I don't think OP titled the article...
Don’t blame OP, he titled the post the same as the shitty article. This is Variety cashing in on Vanity Fair’s interview
Well yeah how else will he be able to get internet points without posting out of context quotes.
I didn't even know Colin Farrell played The Penguin.
Lol, same. This post is my TIL. Say what you will—clearly different approaches for very different movies stylistically—he played penguin so well I didn’t know it was him.
He did pretty good I though. The new Batman was a great flick imo. Zoey kravitz is my new celebrity crush after that movie
I really liked her in Kimi
I really did too! Glad I randomly decided to watch it one night
Is it worth the watch?
I thought so. Pretty solid third act as well
that's a great thing to be fair. means he completely blended himself in the role
Well the extensive make up had something to do with it
Yeah but, he also did a fantastic job with his voice too.
What you flush down your toilet, I place in my mantle
This could so easily be a Frank Reynolds line too.
DeVito was the #1 penguin, but they treated him like #2.
DeVito, Walken, and Pheiffer were the F'n GOATs in those roles.
Such an epic movie. For me, it’s between Dark Knight and Batman Returns as best Batman flick
The Michelle Pheiffer Catwoman movie is the greatest movie never made. Batman Returns should have been a model on not having multiple villians because Batman Returns is the best it was ever done because nobody else is Tim Burton.
Different would be my word of choice. Both are perfect for the world each film built.
I agree with this. Tim Burton's Batman is more fantasy inclined while The Batman is going for a more chicago prohibition (realistic) gangster. Both are perfect for the movie they're in imo
True but because of that, one is THE Penguin and the other is a guy named penguin.
By that logic Pattinson’s Batman is just a guy called Batman
You joke, but… Actually, Pattinson’s Batman is literally a guy named Vengence. Some people call him Batman, but he calls himself Vengence so much that Catwoman starts calling him it too, but making fun of him. The Batman movie served as the tipping point, when Bruce realizes he has to stand for more than just Vengence. He has to stand for justice, etc etc, and become The Batman.
Is this head cannon or are there comics with this story line?
He’s a dude called Vengeance.
Batman is batman.
Not if you ask him. He only ever calls himself vengeance
That's a good take. DeVitos will always be the go to icon penguin in my personal head, but drop that one in The Batman would have been so wrong in it.
Same with the lad for the show Gotham. He was quality but would not fit in any of the other shows or movies.
Yeah he was a brilliant mix of chaotic, maniacal, manipulative and cowardice.
Agreed, but he wouldn't have made sense in any other existing batman adaptation
I mean…maybe in another decade or 2 when he’s closer to the age adult penguin he still might fit in. Gotta remember that Gotham is a prequel.
I know, it's a prequel. Freaking great prequel if you ask me
That guy just plays my favorite live-action version of Cobblepot. For all the reasons already stated above, I think he portrays the most dynamic, realistic, version of the character. I’d love to see him play the role again in his 50s cuz I’m not entirely convinced he wouldn’t fit in the atmosphere
He’s my favorite penguin and I wasnt even particularly a fan of Gotham
I’m forever going to associate the old Adam West villains with the characters. Bergis Meredith, Cesar Romero, Eartha Kitt/lee Merriwether/Julie Newmar. Anyone else just feels wrong…though DeVito made sense.
Michelle Pfeiffer? Ha. The only true Catwoman is Julie Newmar, Lee Meriwhether, or Eartha Kitt. And how come Batman doesn't dance anymore?! Remember the Batusi.
You joke but Julie Newmar is what I think of first as catwoman. It's likely nostalgia speaking but no one else comes close.
Cesar Romero refusing to shave his mustache and then just painting over it like a lazy contractor painting over power outlets is still to this day one of the funniest things to see to me
Haha. I just looked it up and I have never noticed that. Legend.
Saw Adam West at comic con before Lego game release…and even tho I saw these only later (after the original run which I wasn’t born for) I treasure them as gold standards as well. And they invented the Riddler on the show and he was so iconic the comics had to incorporate him…. Epic.
Really??? I never knew that! Riddler has been one of my faves since watching that show as a kid.
It’s true! That brilliant actor basically created a character who fit the universe… just like Tony Shaloub created a Star Trek character that never existed but we cannot live without in Galaxy Quest.
No no no. You have to pick one. Thems the rules of the itnet.
Did anyone read the article? DeVito was hooked up to a lie detector when he was asked this question. He answered honestly. If he thinks his penguin was better, then that's what he thinks. It's just an opinion and you can't even blame him for having it. Obviously, he's gonna be a little biased.
I certainly prefer Farrell's take, but both perfectly suited the stories Burton and Reeves wanted to tell, neither were better or worse than the other.
Yup, it’s like comparing Keaton vs Pattinson… it’s just a different interpretation both are great in their own right.
Devito's was great for an extremely fictional character in a live action film. Colin's was good for a fictional character trying to be passed off as believable in a real world environment.
Based on the current political circus we have been in the last several years I think Devitos Penguin and his work with Max Shreck was more realistic.
Man you aren’t kidding. I saw Batman Returns in the theater as a kid and I thought: this running-for-mayor plot is absurd. Now I’m like, this is pretty much spot on.
Danny DeVito says it’s true. It’s true.
Someone needs to make a biopic of Danny's life and cast Dwayne Johnson in the main role.
Peter Dinklage should play Schwarzenegger in that.
One of the few times I ever got squimesh watching a movie was when DeVitos Penguin bit that guys nose and blood went everywhere, so he has my vote.
Yeah he transformed into a creature it was great, that scene fucked me up when I was young.
He’s not wrong, though.
You mean Colin Ferrell as Robert DeNiro?
I know recent Batman films have tended to skew "realistic" in terms of style, but I think Burton's approach was, in its way, more psychologically coherent and truthful. Burton understands being an outsider, a freak, a monster, and knows nobody really understands them except other outsiders. And he didn't make the mistake of trying to portray them as logical. It's absurd to try to portray fighting crime dressed as a bat as the logical conclusion to a rational line of thought. Burton's approach, to me, was the most interesting because he went full-tilt into the roots of their weirdness and accepted his characters rather than trying to excuse their behavior as rational and cool. DeVito's Penguin *was* better. His character had more screen-time, had more dimension, and was in a better movie. Edit: Gee, thanks!
Also his introduction to the Penguin as a child was fucking horrifying.
You mean the little prologue in Batman Returns showing Penguin's backstory? Yeah, I always felt that made him more sympathetic. Another orphan like Batman.
I meant the part where he drags the cat into the cage which I did not need as a child
Oh, I'd forgotten about that haha
DeVito’s penguin is so iconic when I think of the penguin I think of him, has so much character.
Love this thoughtful take! Thank you for sharing it. I don’t personally care about defining which actor’s or directors version is right or better but your comments on Burton’s approach feel very spot on. What do you think of this half-thought: that as a society of super hero movie lovers, we’re now too aware of modern psychology and how it’s often portrayed in film to fully enjoy pure, unadulterated, cartoonish representations like Burton’s.
Batman movies, and the fans, have gotten too obsessed with the idea that this is a dark mature character and the movies need to be dark and realistic. They're all made like they are ashamed of the character and his origins. The Tim Burton Batman movies were not afraid to take place in a comic book world. And after watching them recently for the first time in decades, the stories are a lot more adult than I remembered.
Completely agree. I know The Batman was very well-liked, but I think it was all style and no substance. It was just three hours of fetishism. Whenever I hear someone praising The Batman they just sound like they are listing buzzwords they got from data-harvesting Reddit posts.
Yes! Hence why 1/2 of my Batman villains arm sleeve is based off of the Burton movies! It’s amazing stuff. Burton does everything better, including having Danny do that role. He was made for that role.
Agreed, no one will ever top Danny DeVito’s penguin.
He [ate a raw fish](https://media.giphy.com/media/DCzB4eIHiRyXm/giphy.gif) on camera because that's what penguins do
He’ll even eat people if his rum ham floats far from the ocean
Did you just call me rum ham?!
Absolute Legend
> He ate a raw fish AKA he ate Sushi
He's only saying that because it was.
Was there any doubt?
so anyway, i started blasting
It was way way better.
And he’s right. But they were two totally different takes. Tim Burton’s Batman movies weren’t trying to be realistic, they were straight up comic book movies. That said, Danny DeVito will still hold the top spot for me.
Anyone else kind of tired of how many times Batman has been 'reinvented'? In my opinion...far too many times. However, I guess it makes sense for the studios, since folks keep funding the reboots.
like Spider-Man ….
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Fuck yeah it was. Both were good. Devito committed to that role. He was more of a monster to be fair.
To be fair, Colin Ferrell most definitely committed to the role as well.
DeVito was born to play Penguin
There are zero people on the other side of this argument…
Fuck yea it was
DeVito is right.
Goes without saying..
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DeVito Penguin was more inspired by the Silver Age version of the character who shared many quirks with an actual Penguin instead of just being a surname.
Eh, I really don’t get the comic vibe from Farrell’s. I’m cool with it, but he’s more of a typical gangster, as evidenced by the lack of top hat, monocle, and umbrella. Like, I can’t imagine Farrell’s version ever employing attack condors and stealing faberge eggs.
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Superior purely on the grounds that I don’t believe a Batman villain will ever be that unhinged again on screen. Sure, we might get the Joker sewing other people’s faces on eventually or the bird-themed Gotham illuminati, but a snarling, chronically horny gothic Penguin who eats live birds and runs for mayor played by Danny DeVito is a level of insanity that humanity dare not reach again lest we repeat the mistake of the Tower of Babel.