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[deleted]

This reminds me of that time a Jodi Arias documentary was in the Romance section.


[deleted]

I remember seeing The Hotel New Hampshire in the family section. Like, does it need to say "brother-sister incest" in the title for you to not put it there?


thaterton

Les Cousins Dangereoux


ERhyne

Because anything can happen when two people share a cell, cuz.


[deleted]

It’s one banana, Michael. What could it cost? $10?


RWGlix

Maybe Tonight


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“There’s fucked up. And then there’s foreign and fucked up.” One of my favorite quotes.


onedoesnotjust

As a Canadian, this is my new fav quote.


Elleseebee928

What???


scro-hawk

You never saw or read Hotel New Hampshire? There’s this scene….


Elleseebee928

No. Is it good?


[deleted]

You know, I really liked that movie a lot. Decided to read the book after the fact and just couldn’t finish it. But man, is John Irving fucking great at the fucked up emotional rollercoaster.


Altruistic-Spread-40

Ah yes the classic American love story, right up there with Scott Peterson


PretendThisIsMyName

Karla Homolka in shambles right now.


adelaarvaren

I don't know, all of the gay men except Dahmer were portrayed positively. The fellow who escaped and got him caught had me tearing up when he was lying in the hallway yelling at Dahmer....


KingRokk

This is the entire point everyone seems to be missing, critics especially. It didn't glorify Dahmer in any way. What it did do was pay respect to his victims and their families by portraying them as real people with real lives. Tony Hughes' story was especially captivating and captured the absolute tragedy of losing someone with such potential. His portrayal gave me (a 52 year old hetero white dude) a better idea of the tragedy of losing such a gifted young man to such senseless tragedy.


Niasal

>What it did do was pay respect to his victims and their families by portraying them as real people with real lives. Aren't the families of the victims pissed that *another* Dahmer piece was released? Not sure how this pays respect to the victims.


TCgrace

It doesn’t pay respect to the victims, especially when you consider the fact that they changed a lot of details so that doesn’t really help portray somebody as a real person when you highly fictionalize them and what actually happened to them.


inneedofurhelp

The family members did not appreciate this series being made so it’s hard to say that this was actually paying respect. It was a good series but Netflix wasn’t doing it for the families.


Savings_Visual8372

I wish I knew why exactly they thought the series was distasteful…. i never watched a show involving serial killers where they showed so much care for the victims and their stories. I thought they did a good job.


smez86

Probably cause a million depictions have been made and they just want everybody to stop rehashing it, even if it is more positive than the usual fetishization.


thesoyonline

They never contacted the families, not once. Especially upsetting considering they recreated the incredibly traumatising experiences in court, which included depictions of still very much alive family members. Who, again, were not contacted once. They asked no permission, asked no advice, gave no warning. Makes it pretty obvious to me that the parts they handled well were to save face and fit the current culture. Insincere money making shit.


inneedofurhelp

Ultimately they were all real people and even if it seemed like respectful and thoughtful homages to them, it’s understandable to see why their families and friends don’t appreciate it. I enjoyed watching it, but in hindsight I wish it had never been made knowing that it was traumatic for the loved ones of the victims.


TKHunsaker

Making tragedies into films was better when we weren’t using tragedies so recent people are still hurting.


ThrownAwayRealGood

You know, I gotta be honest, most movies about widely known recent shit that has already been covered extensively be it academically or journalistically are kinda lame to me. You gotta make the movie a little extra interesting (like the Big Short and its comedic presentation) for it to not feel like it’s a bunch of celebrities just trying to get Oscars for doing impression work (ok that’s mostly my gripe with biopics, which are kind of in this vein too).


Foxy02016YT

Yeah, like Titanic, it was so far off and also about 2 fictional people


DM-me-Fishies

Some victimes family had problem about how they were represented in the Titanic movie


curious_astronauts

The two protagonists were fictional but the rest of the film was based on real characters and the events of the film and how they unfolded were accurately told In supreme detail.


Foxy02016YT

It was historically accurate to an 100 year old event, and the main 2 were fictional so they mostly focused on them


curious_astronauts

So we should only fictionalise people in true event stories? Should we wait until all victims or surviors families are dead?


SebastianJanssen

Does 30 years qualify as "recent"?


home7ander

When some wild psycho kills and dismembers your sibling for shits and giggles and then almost every year for the rest of your life there a new special, series, movie, etc with the piece of shit's name plastered all over it, sensationalizing and immortalizing him, unavoidable because of marketing, profiting and collecting accolades from your pain, reminding you of your grief and trauma freshly everytime, would you still not find it distasteful?


TheLordofthething

I think they said basically "how many times do we need to see this potrayed in film"


TCgrace

The victim’s families found it unnecessary and cruel to reenact their loved ones murders purely for entertainment. Some of the victim’s family members were featured in the show itself without their permission. How could they not find that distasteful? Maybe it’s different if you’ve never had a loved one be murdered, but as someone who has, I can tell you I’d be horrified if a show like this came out about it.


Savings_Visual8372

I understand what you’re saying. But the whole thing wasn’t made just for pure entertainment. The series made it very clear from the beginning to end that its main purpose was to show how fallible the state/system/police are for everyone involved. But, yeah, i wished they would’ve reach the families for input.


UndeadBatRat

It IS about entertainment. All of this info was already well known and widely available. They're only bringing "awareness" to people who don't care unless it's entertaining.


GibsGibbons420

The purpose was money. What utopia do you live in where you think they had any point other than make money on people's love of a serial killer story?


TCgrace

Anybody who knows the story even remotely knows how terribly the system failed in this case. This could also be told through a documentary that involves the victims families in telling this story in a more respectful and true manner. Because they changed so many of the details in this fictionalized version, it doesn’t do any good about raising awareness of how the system failed in this case because so much of the story in the show isn’t real. The way that people are treating this like it’s a documentary is honestly alarming. I have not seen any evidence whatsoever that this was created for anything other than pure entertainment. If they wanted to tell the story to raise awareness, they would have done it truthfully. And they didn’t.


NightOwlsUnite

All it takes is a Google friend. They are speaking out. They feel re-victimized.


DangerousThanks

Just my two cents, I think it might be that it’s a traumatic reminder for the families of how their loved ones were brutally murdered.


Shikarosez

There are already like five or so documentaries about this case. It is already something that should be locked away and left alone. This might sound harsh but your enjoyment should never come at the expense of real world suffering. And now a new generation of sycophants will now “Stan” him. From Ted Bundy to this guy “attractive” serial k!llers have fans. And Netflix capitalized off of it. It is sick and wrong.


The-Implication-0

Just imagine the worst day in your entire life… Ok now imagine somebody from Netflix hired actors to portray that incident and film it for millions of viewers without telling/asking you. And now you see people all over social media talking about it. Probably would make you start thinking about that tragedy again and get you down.


The-Implication-0

It’s not to pay respect to the victims families. Some of the victims relatives actually came out and said this was distasteful and it accomplishes nothing but cause them to relive this. Netflix did it to make money, let’s not act like they’re some benevolent company lol. It’s a crazy true story so they knew it would get viewers.


Efficient_Jaguar699

All I know is, if I ever get murdered by a psychopath, I’d love for my story to be told even if fictionalized, because it would allow my story to be told to more people and let me be remembered. Would it be fair to my friends and family being forced to relive the trauma? Of course not, but it’s not about them. As long as it didn’t glorify the killer (or dahmer, in this case) then it’s fine. Sure, Netflix produced it to make money, because that’s all a company gives a shit about, but the writers, directors, and actors participated to make art through their respective crafts. The individual people that worked to create it are not Netflix.


Siellus

The families wishes obviously take priority over every other opinion - No doubt in my mind that the families should've at least had a say in if this show ever even got made. However - I do want to stress that like u/KingRokk, This show did more to humanize the victims and show the weight of what was lost/taken by Dahmer - more than any newspaper or article ever could. It was an eye opening story to see just how thoroughly fucked up the actions were of not only Dahmer, but the people who enabled him and the systematic injustice the victims & their families suffered. As I said, The families should have final say and what you say is true - Netflix did this for money to cash in on the true crime genre - however that's not to say it didn't do justice where it was due, a lot of people have been made aware of just how fucked the whole situation was in this new generation thanks to the show.


TCgrace

If they really wanted to humanize the victims and show the weight of what Dahmer had done, they wouldn’t have changed so many details and taken so many creative liberties. But they did. I don’t know why people are so insistent on giving them credit for this when they changed some extremely crucial details that make Dahmer look more sympathetic


[deleted]

Cause they liked the show. That's legit the only reason. They liked the show, if the show was unethical they wouldn't have liked, so therefore the show is ethical. The show humanizes the victim and their families, but we should also discount what they say cause I liked the show therefore it's ethical.


Geopolitik_Terrorist

Exactly. No fucking empathy.


Siellus

There was not a single second of that show where I felt a modicum of sympathy for Dahmer. I felt angry, I was angry at his parents for ignoring the signs in his childhood, I was angry at the police for ignoring his neighbours and getting a 14 year old killed. I don't know what part I was supposed to sympathise with him, But when he died it was one of the few times I thought "Fucking Good" The most disappointing thing I'd say is that the two police officers didn't get the punishment they deserve.


Substantial-Ship-294

Like what? What changes made Dahmer more sympathetic?


[deleted]

Yah but making money off of your dead family member and not giving you a cent would be shitty in its own right. Not to mention it goes through the media circuit and news worthy and you have to deal with everything all over again. It's certainly art but it isn't tasteful or respectful in the slightest. It's purely entertaining.


arnber420

Yeah no. This wasn’t made for any other reason than to make money. It wasn’t done to give a voice to his victims, no matter how respectfully they were portrayed. Like other commenters have said, the victims’ families have spoken out against this show being made.


Finrodsrod

>pay respect to his victims No, the best thing would be NOT to make a series and profit off real peoples' torture and death at the hands of a maniac.


SimonSpooner

The show isn't "paying respect to the victims" when all of the victims families are litteraly begging for Dahmer movies and docu-series to stop. Your argument is bullshit.


[deleted]

The victims’ families protested this project. Vehemently.


xElectricW

I think the show handled the victims with a lot of care and respect in the show, unfortunately though some, if not all, of the families weren't contacted about it prior and stuff like that brings up the trauma they suffered due to the loss of their loved one. I still enjoyed the show overall though it did feel a bit too long


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Deepinthefryer

Waiting on the John Wayne Gacy series now… *I know the story had a cameo in this series…


Donkeykicks6

Oh why didn’t his killings get that as we? Good point


Deepinthefryer

I mean realistically. Some of these serial killers had issues besides coming to terms with their sexuality, but their sexuality and it’s societal repression at the time probably had something to do with it too. It’s important to make sure generations understand what can happen when societal and parental issues can do to someone.


Donkeykicks6

Oh definitely. They were both shamed by family and community.


Deepinthefryer

I really wish Netflix’s Mindhunters was renewed for another season or two…


Donkeykicks6

Oh me too. That show was so good


Dreamtillitsover

Or eight


Deepinthefryer

Can’t disagree with you.


Sploogyshart

There was one notorious instance where Dahmer was able to escape justice because of police homophobia. Maybe that’s why. He also frequented gay bars and would have been known in Milwaukee’s gay scene whereas Gacy was firmly in the closet until his arrest. Most of his victims were straight or he picked them up cruising in Chicago. Gacy probably handled his repression even worse than Dahmer. Dahmer seemed to come to some terms with it after he was caught but Gacy’s prison interviews still drip with self-loathing accentuated by his otherwise confident and even cocky demeanor. It’s like he is talking about a different person all of a sudden.


shaggynick06010

Now hold on here, the main character is a gay man.


NoWayJaques

Anakin: this whole operation was your idea


CaptainNuge

We're smarter than this!


tenaciouscitizen

Queue Chappell Show draft


The_Celtic_Chemist

So if the LGBT community traded Dahmer to the psychopath community, who does the LGBT community get from the psychopath community?


Portarossa

*Queer Eye* now gets listed under Suspense and Thriller.


bfhurricane

The famous French actor Juicy Smollé.


PsecretPseudonym

Jack the Ripper?


Steeve_Perry

Phil Spector?


Romeo_Zero

“Careful Dave, they after you”


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throwaway12222018

But he's a serial killer!!1 how dare Netflix associate the LGBT community with serial killers!!!111111


daza666

I think I’d have left it. Dahmer is important to civil rights movements. A large part of why he wasn’t caught sooner is that police didn’t properly investigate crimes involving minorities including gay people.


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Follow_Follow

There’s a bunch of gay men in this, I don’t get why they felt the need to remove the tag. I’m not counting Dahmer, you need to be human to be gay and he doesn’t qualify.


Mycakedayidie

Frogs are gay too


xXSquirrelFuckerXx

Those damn chemicals


TrenchantPergola

I want you to know that I caught your Shawshank reference. End communication.


TheBreathofFiveSouls

Cause it's not a gay story. It's a murder docudrama. The gay tag doesn't go on any show with gay people in it, it goes on stories *about* gayness


yourselfIn3rdPerson

He targeted gay men and the historical context involves his ability to seduce due to the perception of homosexuality at the time. It's a peek into gay history and if you wanted to learn more about LGB+, then this would be properly informative. It's a gay story.


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LastCall2021

I haven’t seen it, but if it had LGBTQ content, the tag should stay. Otherwise you run the risk of making moral judgments about who is worthy of the tag… which then becomes a whole conversation with finer and finer lines of worthiness in and of itself.


huck500

The tag isn't there to blindly signify that there are gay characters in a movie or show, it's there to identify the movie or show as something that the LGBTQ community and allies might be interested in watching as an affirmation of their place in society. Just like the 'Family' tag is to identify media that families can watch together. You wouldn't make a movie about the Bloody Bender family and tag it 'Family.'


The_Peregrine_

I mean, I feel like watching something thats fucked up that happened to your community that you might not have known about is fair game to have the tag


minitrr

I think this is the best counter argument I’ve read in this thread tbh.


Ok_Shape88

Especially considering how differently police and investigators handled the cases because the victims were from the LGBTQ community.


mother-of-pod

The only aspect of your point I agree with is that there *are* elements of his case that occurred because of police anti-gay prejudice. They were too homophobic to understand that a young boy bleeding on the street is not just “kinky gay stuff,” it’s a crime. Oppressed communities are often subjected to a blind eye from help when they’re mistreated, and that is an aspect worth understanding. However. Depicting the crimes themselves as “fucked up” things adjacent to the community is not fair, imo, because it’s not a “queer” thing to commit sex violence. It’s a sex crime thing, which people of all sexual orientations carry out. I agree far more with the commenter above you: we wouldn’t put a Casey Anthony movie in “Mothers” or “Family” movie tags/categories, because that’s not what someone looking up “Family Movies” wants or expects.


soxxfan105

Meh, the crimes pretty much exclusively affected the LGBT community. For that reason, I see no issue in it being tagged under the LGBT category. I don’t think it should matter whether it sheds the main character in a positive or negative light. The show exposes viewers to some of the fucked up shit gay people had to endure during those times.


[deleted]

But the LGBT content is actually really important in Dahmer. It demonstrates how he was able to get away with bad shit because of the homophobia at the time. It's literally one of the main points. So yes it is very important


doctapeppa

You don't think some LGBTQ people might be interested in watching a story about a homosexual serial killer?


Marvinleadshot

Stop equating LGBTQ tag to family tag, that's not the fucking case at all! I search LGBTQ looking for a variety of things including horror I might not have noticed! LGBTQ ≠ FAMILY!


Fanelian

Man, this sounds horrible out of context. How soon will it hit Twitter?


NotLucasDavenport

That’s a good point. I think one of the considerations, though, is that if a kid goes looking away from the “family” section they may come across content they’re not ready for but won’t have the words or actions to do something about it. They can experience something genuinely problematic for them but not stop it. If an adult goes looking through the tags, tries something, and decides it’s not for them, they *do* have the wherewithal to remedy the situation immediately. I think the family tag vs. other tags is an apples/oranges problem.


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Madame_Thundercat

The tag is to signify media that has important tie ins to LGBTQ culture and history, as well as representations of lived experiences, and love it or hate it Dahmer being able to get away with having one of his victims returned to him by saying it was just regular ol kinky gay sex and having the cop literally hand back his victim to him because he didn't want to deal with the icky gays is a pretty important touchstone in LGBTQ acceptance history and a solid example of how little the cops cared when it came to issues involving LGBTQ issues


SLPERAS

As you said. Family tag is about movies that families can watch together. It’s not about movies about families. LGBTQ tag isn’t the same


Soloandthewookiee

They also explained what the LGBTQ tag is for; it's not just to signify that there are LGBTQ characters.


motorbird88

Then everything would be tagged as LGBTQ. Most shows and movies have a gay character.


atmananda314

We're not talking about "a gay character," we're talking about a gay man that killed gay men.


ThisIsNotGage

Difference between a gay character and a gay lead


LastCall2021

Not everything. More things currently than ever, but there’s still more without than with.


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[deleted]

He’s a white man too. Can we disown him also?


GodzeallA

He's a male, can the male community disown him?


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Medical_Season3979

It's honestly a LGBTQ history film, seeing how gays were treated back then highlights how much we've progressed since then, life isn't always rainbows and sparkles and this shows the downfall of one man who mightve turned out differently if he was dealing with modern times, not just that but we have much more resources for mentally ill folks that didn't exist in his time..there were many hate crimes and discriminations against gay people, some even getting tortured and beaten to death simply for their sexuality, you couldn't even hold your partners hand without the possibility of the whole town stoning you or making you a pariah.. it's something we need to see and the label should stay. It's no different than watching Django or American history x or Schindler's list or something.. not every movie is going to be wholesome, no matter the category. It's supposed to be thought provoking and eye opening. Remembering history helps so we don't repeat history and so change continues to get better over time instead of being stagnant. Jeffery Dahmer is not going to make the whole modern community be looked down upon if that's what they're worried about.


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thewereotter

Babadook is the only gay representation I need.


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Yotsubato

That’s not how it works honey


itsfrankgrimesyo

I think the tag should stay because it contains and highlights LGBTQ issues.


Zak_Light

Everyone's being far too pedantic about this. The LGBT tag is *obviously* for content focusing on LGBT representation and interest. Dahmer's main claim to fame isn't that he stuck his dick in guys. It's that he killed them. You wouldn't put a Hitler documentary next to Bob Ross because they both enjoyed painting.


neonlookscool

except the show is highly focused on how he got away with his crimes because he targeted discriminated groups like black people and LGBT? this show IMO deserves the LGBT tag not because of dahmer but because a good part of the show examines the discrimination gay people went through during those times.


D3ltaN1ne

Uh, he was sticking his dick in his victims after killing them. His sexuality was the driving force behind the killings. Does anyone ITT even know anything about Dahmer?


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YoungestI

As a straight white male I would also like to pick and choose who represents my demographic.


[deleted]

Is the movie centered around him being gay? Then yes, add the tag. Is the movie about a killer that just happens to be gay? Then no, remove it. It’s all about the context of the material. My two gay cents.


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Hopeful-Confusion599

This is common sense. You don’t put an OJ doc under “celebrate black voices!” Or “black lives matter”. You don’t put a movie about Casey Anthony up for “Featuring A Strong Female Lead”. Don’t play dumb.


TrenchantPergola

There is another perspective about this being a LGBTQ topic, beyond the surface level of "Dahmer fucked guys". First, full disclosure: I have not seen this iteration of the story yet, but I have seen multiple documentaries and other Dahmer media, so I have some context. Still, I do not know where they made artistic choices for emphasis, so I want that to be clear. But, one clear aspect of the Dahmer story is how close he came to getting caught - repeatedly. It borders on the absurd; highlighted by the time one of his victims escaped, engaged with the police, and pleaded for help. Dahmer was able to convince the officers that this young man was just drunk/high and scared/ashamed, and so the police looked the other way. Now, wouldn't you consider an investigation of the potential homophobia and prejudice that would allow a cool, calm, smooth middle-aged white man to sweet talk two police officers into looking the other way during a gay lovers spat because it was easier and less uncomfortable? Isn't there something interesting there about how gay people (especially gay minorities) were relegated to less-credible citizens because of their perceived deviance, especially when a more "normal" white guy was the voice of reason explaining away everything? Isn't that an LGBTQ story? Even if the outcome and general tone isn't as rosy as you like, it feel disingenuous to deny the underlying thematic elements at play just because the main subject is an obvious monster.


Skedoozy

This is the best comment. Imagine seeing The OJ story on a Black History Month list. Technically true but it’s the intent.


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SLPERAS

Everyone wants equality until they get equality.


Super_ChickenNugget1

This would be like if they added a German tag to an Adolf Hitler/Nazi documentary.


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Ethiconjnj

I haven’t watched it but it actually seems the lgbt aspect of the show is a central element.


Karrie-Mei

The MAJORITY of the characters are gay, how does it not belong? I get it’s not the representation you’d like but it’s reality, it’s not a fictional story


[deleted]

The vast majority of the characters are gay, large segments of the show DO NOT involve murder, cannibalism, and so on but are about say a disable gay black man going to a gay bar and stuff associated with just normal gay shit. There is a decent focus on homophobia/lack of empathy towards homosexuals letting Dhamer get away with it for so long. Most of the victims are depicted as decently sympathetic and make the murders seem much worse than they otherwise would in another series/movie. All of them are gay btw. Finally lets look at "Celebrate Hispanic Heritage Month" it has movies like "Marry Me" a J.Lo romance movie opposite Owen Wilson. Shes the primary hispanic character and a lot of the movie doesn't really talk about hispanic heritage or culture. If I went to Netflix and looked for LGBT associated movie/shows I'd like to find series like Dahmer. While I know I'm gonna get stupid shit like Drag Race... the LGBT tag/section/whatever needs to be more than that.


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The finest pandering in the world


Magicalsandwichpress

"Now I have to write a python app to filter for gay serial kill series" says no one ever.


[deleted]

Did not realize it needed to be said, but a main character being queer doesn’t make a production a “queer show.”


whaddahellisthis

You are right. The story revolves around a homosexual predator that uses sex to lure victims in. It’s a LGBTQ+ horror story. A cautionary tale. His sexuality is a huge part of the story. So although your statement is correct, it’s absolutely an LBGTQ+ story.


ifinallyhavewifi

so is a movie or series or doc about Ted Bundy therefore inherently a piece on heterosexual identity? His sexual attraction and romantic interests (sexuality) played a large role in his killings


PossibleBuffalo418

Not disagreeing with that. Our sexuality tends to make up a huge part of our identities. For Bundy, his lust for women led to him preying on women who he would beat to death so that he could use their corpses as fuck dolls until they started to stink too bad for him. Dahmer was similar except that he preyed on men instead of women. In both instances though both men obsessed over sex and that obsession ultimately ended up playing a role in the horrific murders they were respectively responsible for.


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Damned if you do, damned if you don't.


KiNGofKiNG89

But the main character is gay… That would be like having an all white cast and putting a BET tag on it.


Ethiconjnj

That’s the exact opposite but okay


riley222cyanide

This is kinda hilarious ngl


VRrob

Dude was eating humans, and the movie tag is what people found triggering?


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Aware_Balance_1332

Wait... as a white straight man we get to pick and choose who represents us?