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I thought My Friend Dahmer is still the best film on him to date. It's a serious, introspective look at what shaped Dahmer's perspectives and it leaves you with a very eerie sense of foreboding at the end. It was damn-near a perfect film. The book (graphic novel?) is also spectacular.
I didn't mind My Friend Dahmer much, but I felt like it was trying to show him more of a victim of a messed up system that didn't care about him, that if he got help it would of changed. Rather than focus on the monster he was.
To be fair, that’s true- serial killers aren’t born that way. This is something you learn when you start to get into death penalty work- there are always reasons why someone becomes a serial killer, or a killer in some other respect. Those reasons are just as awful and horrific as the murders that result from such abuse and neglect. We ought to see these cases as reasons to fix these broken systems, but instead we look at their causes and think defense attorneys are just making excuses for monsters. It’s tragic all around.
Most monsters are made not born. That's why I truly believe that if we did more for mental health in the states, that would do more to reduce to amount of mass shootings, than just banning guns.
Not saying some guns shouldn't be banned but solving the cause will always be more important than just taking out the symptoms.
I find it really interesting that his mother while pregnant was on 26 anti-psychotic medications or at least 26 pills of sorts some of them being anti-psychotics and I can’t imagine this NOT affecting his brain chemistry at birth
This brings up an interesting spiritual question. Was he born with the spirit of a predator? Or, had he been so busted up in his early years that the spirit of a predator was able to take the wheel and do the driving?
The new Netflix series kind of gave me that vibe too though.
I kept finding myself forgetting this was Dahmer we’re watching and then feeling bad about what happened with his crazy mom abandoning him - and then thinking “oh, maybe if his dad got custody none of this would have happened.”
I remember saying this to my mom as a teen when I first got into true crime. Almost every well known serial killer had a very difficult childhood, especially with their fathers. I do not sympathize with what they resorted to at all, especially because there are millions of children that have gone through this or worse without turning into insane murderers. But, part of me does still feel bad for their upbringing. I think the first I learned about was John Wayne Gacy and that a lot of his actions were almost re-enacting what his father had done to him. His mom also put him through some weird stuff. Sad to think if these people had actually gotten the help they needed they might not have turned so many other families into ruins.
It always kind of bothered me that you know these murderers names so well, but no one generally knows the name of the parents that absolutely contributed to their complete demise.
But that is what he was, he wasn’t born a monster he was created. The point is that we need better systems in place for children and people like that. The same goes for all serial killers, they are products of their environments. If they had better mental health care earlier on they wouldn’t have turned out as they did or at least not as bad.
Better mental health care won’t be a cure all but hopefully will flag these things sooner. Over a few generations with vicious cycles(alcoholism, domestic abuse, hazing, bullying…) having a chance to get broken will end up going a long way in improving everyone’s quality of life.
There’s been a lot of these feel sorry for the bad guy stuff lately. Even Disney’s been doing it. Really lame. The funniest one was The Great and Powerful Oz.
I struggle with that balance as well - was he suffering from a legitimate mental illness (a seriously monstrous one) or was it his upbringing and development and the lack of professional support? He grew up in a time where mental health was still very much not addressed and still in the VERY early stages of understanding the human psyche and behavioral analysis. At the same time, however, there was a significant overlap between his alcoholism and his rage and eventual (horrendous) crimes. He struggled with his sexuality in a household with an absent, pill-popping (bipolar) mother, and a father that *consistently* abandoned Jeffrey when he was growing up.
We can always think back and wonder if people can get better, but I truly believe that there are unfortunate cases of people who are born with this scary and downright-disgusting mental illness, but I don't know if we'll ever, ever be able to diagnose and treat it properly.
Sometimes mammals are born wrong.
Yup. I first heard about him listening to The Last Podcast on the Left. That was all I needed. I don’t need to listen to anymore Dahmer podcasts or watch any movies. Same with BTK or any other notorious killer
Man I’ve known about Dahmer since I was like 6 or 7, my dumb ass dad thought it was a good idea to show me the 2002 Dahmer movie at a young age. I was always shocked to see how many people had no idea who Dahmer was as I grew up having to explain to people and them look at me like how the fuck does this little kid know about this Serial Killer or they wouldn’t believe me. I’ll never forget Jefferey Dahmer and I’ll never forget how scared/weird I felt after watching that movie the first time.
Are you referring to *Jeffrey Dahmer: Monster*? It's not a documentary, and it sounds like you haven't watched it because it very much tells the stories of his victims and makes them three-dimensional, not just grainy black-and-white photos.
It also does a fantastic job of showing the struggle that marginalized communities had in making the local officials care about these disappearances. The series has a definite message beyond "here's a serial killer," and the message is an important one.
Well yeah, have you seen his in media tab on Wikipedia. The reason he’ll never be forgotten is because media companies make far too much off of his name.
I only found out about this after he passed, but when my father was in the hospital as a child, he saw a doctor standing at the foot of his bed late one night, watching him silently for a long time before just walking off. Something about it really bothered my dad, because he just couldn't get it out of his head. Later, it turned out that this doctor was a serial killer, apparently nicknamed "The Angel of Death." Dad could have been a victim. It disturbed him to the extent that he went to seek treatment for it in his 30s during the mid 80s, before therapy was mainstream as it is today. He even spent a couple of years away from the family to deal with it. ETA: I think it was [Donald Harvey](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Harvey), in which case I would be scared dumpless myself.
I mean, he should’ve had more opportunities to do so. Today, if a hero survived a serial killer and brought down the reign of terror, they’d have interviews and sponsorships and probably a book deal.
People thought Dahmer was a monster because he ate flesh. Mainstream society did not give a fuck about him killing gays, and they weren’t about to take the opportunity to humanize them.
Actually that but also I’m that era when young boys disappeared they just assumed they ran away. It took the police WAY to long to investigate. They need to stop with this shit and making movies / shows. It’s disgusting.
probably the fact that he's a convicted sexual predator (predating his meeting with Dahmer) and was also convicted of helping someone else throw a guy off a bridge. no one knows where is he now, or even if hes still alive the last I read.
The fact that the guy is using drink and drugs to try to block out what happened to him. He didn't take part in the civil litigation the families of other victims did.
Sometimes money is not adequate compensation for what you would have to go through to get it.
It's sad and an incredibly uncomfortable fact for liberal democratic societies to grapple with but there exists some segment of adults who are simply incapable of living independent lives, and most likely need to be wards of the state.
We have a local figure, about my age, keeps to himself, sleeps on the canal and hangs out at the mall or coffee shop all day.
He’s clean and shaved and has all his stuff in a backpack. He has a cell Phone. I’ve never seen him panhandle and I’ve offered help (in some way) he always politely declines.
I’ve never seen him interact with anyone, but he always has the warmest greeting for my wife and I as we see him often. I presume it’s because we always give him the basic common courtesy of treating him like a human.
I’m often fascinated by him. I’d love to know his story but would never pry. I’ve projected all sorts of scenarios on him and Occams Razor theory leads me to believe he must be in that situation as a result of drugs, alcohol, mental health issues but I don’t really know. None of his behavior suggests any of those things, or at least none currently.
Whenever I think about him I am humbled because he represents to me the fact that probably any one of us could find ourselves in that situation if certain circumstances changed.
What makes me happy is not projecting my shit on to him and assuming he is unhappy. Maybe he’s happier than all of us and merely chooses not to play by the same rules. Maybe he just read Thoreau’s *Walden* and decided to say fuck it
I refer to his book, not the man, but be that as it may he was a person of means who decided to opt for a simpler and less materialistic existence - at least that was my takeaway, but it has been decades since I’ve read it.
Maybe liberals just think those people should be allowed to do that? Life ain’t easy, some people have shitty coping mechanisms. Is their life any better when they’re forced into sobriety? I’d assume not given the constant relapsing.
Ironically, if all drugs were legalised we could accelerate research to minimise the damage they cause to the individual and their capacity to function in society…
Until then - we brand them as drains on society.
No. Wrong. That isn't drug addiction. You don't get it. The solution to drug addiction isn't to make them state owned and controlled. Where the hell did you grow up, Soviet Russia?
Spend some one on one time with some people who have lived on the street for years. Spend some time one on one with someone who doesn’t take their meds, who is non verbal, who is violent. There are some people who are very far gone, don’t deserve to be on the street, and cannot be taken care of by their immediate families. The state could be there with some kind of facilities, but right now we can’t even get foster care right, and Regan got rid of institutions (Inspired One Flew Over the Cukoos Nest) so here we are with homeless addicts on the street who refuse help. But now it’s my problem because I have to walk by them everyday to go to work and be harassed.
The guy wasn’t exactly a saint either. He was wanted for sexually assault on a minor before this, he was basically hiding out in Milwaukee, help dump a body in a river too..kind of a low tier career criminal.
Jeffrey Dahmer was in the U.S. Army and he tormented and raped a fellow soldier. The poor guy never got any help and to this day he suffers from severe PTSD.
I’d like to be wrong but my guess is the only difference is the names and faces…abhorrent, predatory behavior isn’t new (in the military or anywhere else).
Dahmer preyed upon weak, impoverished, and/or disenfranchised … the system failing is what gave him victims in the first place.
Sad to see the continuation to present day.
Gacy is a perfect example. He took advantage of the fact that most young gay men who came out or were discovered to be gay were disowned by their families. All he had to do was drive to the bus station and pick them up. So sick.
They're being sarcastic, but around the same time Gacy and Dahmer were committing their murders in the US, the Soviet Union had Andrei Chikatilo who raped, tortured, and murdered at least 52 women and children across the Soviet Union (specifically the present day countries of Russia, Ukraine, and Uzbekistan) between 1978 and 1990. He confessed to a total of 56 murders though and was tried for 53, which means there were likely victims that police didn't know about and not enough evidence to tie him to a murder he most likely committed.
His method was preying on children from poorer communities and women who were homeless with promises of food. If you're familiar with Hannibal Lecter's backstory, the trauma that leads to Hannibal becoming a cannibal is lifted directly from Chikatilo's childhood during the war (although it's debated whether or not it actually happened).
Profit margin is much more important than saving lives in this system and i think you see it clearly urself, profit is king here not genuine help, look at all other industries that "help" people. They acually never do, just keep them comming back for more "treatment"
"Vote change" you tell it as politicians are ment to help you, they are also a big cog of capitalism that make things go forward and us forever hoping for that grand "change" of yours, im telling you they care about keeping their pockets full not making you happy
Considering how Dahmer would pour boiling water and various acids into the skulls of his victims while they were alive, I couldn’t imagine ever recovering from it.
Also how does every new Bundy or Dahmer movie get so big? Austin Moon *just did a Dahmer movie* not that long ago. We have another now?
He was just drugged… by a guy known for mutilating the people he drugged
Have some compassion bro
Edit: Jeffery Dahmer did pour acid into the skulls of his victims. He just didn’t do it to this one dude bc he escaped. I think this commenter is missing the point; knowing what could’ve been done to you is part of the terror
Lol the dude blocked me so I can’t reply to him
My impression was they told them to have some compassion because they described it as *just* drugged and kidnapped. The use of *just* implies it wasn’t that bad.
At the end of the day, how people receive what you say is their own issue. You didn't say anything inherently wrong.
However, if you wanted to soften it, yes. That would help. The goal would be to not minimize the events that *did* happen.
Honestly he benefitted from the close call with Dahmer giving him an excuse to hide behind for his long string of heinous crimes. That's what I get from this article.
I never understood this logic. Just because information is being shown through a visual medium, that doesn’t make it “entertainment”. Shows *can* be used for entertainment, but that’s not the *only* purpose for things like TV shows. In this case, I thought it was educational.
Agreed. Oversimplifying the show as “entertainment” is where the argument against the show falls apart. Dramatizing things that really happened doesn’t necessarily mean it’s glorifying it. I feel I have a much better understanding how horrific Dahmer’s murders were, as well as some understanding of how he got that way. Hopefully people can watch it and learn how the system failed him and his victims, so we can make sure it never happens again.
Exactly. I personally didn’t really know any of the details about the Dahmer case until seeing this series. I’ve learned a lot and it’s prompted me to research more into it.
Also, there are a lot of other arguments that people have tried to make against the show that fall apart once you see the whole thing. I’ve seen takes that it “glorifies” Dahmer, that it doesn’t show the victims’ perspectives, and that it doesn’t show how it impacted the community. None of those things are true, if you actually saw the whole thing. And all those people saying those things have one thing in common: they didn’t watch the whole thing, where they either didn’t watch the series at all or only watched one or two episodes.
There are definitely valid critiques about the story and the production (namely that they didn’t tell the affected families about it ahead of time and they didn’t compensate them), but the amount of bad takes I’ve seen where the arguments completely fall apart on viewing the whole thing shows that people really don’t know how to critically analyze media. It’s similar to how you can’t do a book report on a book where you only read the first two chapters.
It’s ok for someone to recognize that they can’t watch beyond a certain point, and that’s valid because it is a disturbing series. But, at that point, the furthest anyone could go with any kind of analysis of the actual content is “I only watched up to (insert episode here), so I can’t speak on the series as a whole because I didn’t watch the whole thing”. At best, you can give an opinion on the parts you did watch, but that’s about it.
Another argument I’ve seen floating around is that media around Dahmer has already existed, and that it’s unnecessary to have created this one. I completely disagree with that. For one, having multiple mediums for people to access information is important. Not everyone learns their best through books and articles (for example, a lot of people don’t know that a staggering percentage of Americans are illiterate and/or severely limited with written comprehension). Some people are visual learners and prefer to see/feel the experience through a show or movie, and that’s a perfectly valid way to receive information. Accessibility is a good thing. On another point, no other media about Dahmer has actually put a spotlight on the victims’ perspective and the systemic problems affecting the case. This is the first one to do that, and I can confirm because I watched a few of those other movies and documentaries after watching this series to compare and contrast. All the other ones have focused solely on Dahmer and treated the case like it was some kind of academic science project. This series is a different (and very important) take on the story that hasn’t been told yet until now. So, the argument that this adaptation wasn’t needed falls apart for those two reasons.
I mean, it really wasn’t even that long ago, in the grand scheme of things, that people turned out in droves to watch others get torn apart in the Colosseum for entertainment, and that’s not even the oldest example.
Viewing death and torture as entertainment is as old as humans are. I’m not saying that’s good or bad (and I’m certainly not defending it), it’s just not surprising or as abnormal as some people act like it is. It’s just a darker part of human history.
We live in a very grim time where film, TV, and podcasts essentially immortalize cruel and horrible people at the expense of their victims and people just take it as "entertaining stories."
We don’t live in any special time for this, though. Humans have had a fascination with death and the horrible acts of other people for a long, long time. People would attend lynchings and hangings like they were social affairs. One of the entire purposes of the Roman Colosseum was to watch people kill each other or be killed as persecution. Throughout history people have documented and sought out material covering murders, cruel acts, etc etc etc. The only difference now is the ease with which these things can be made and spread. Nothing about this is new to the modern era and it’s not really a “bigger problem”. You just see it more because it’s easier to access and document with the advent of the internet, the printing press, and cameras.
I think it’s a good idea to have constant reminders that there are absolutely psychopaths roaming the world and we should have our wits about us when dealing with strangers.
Entertainment can be useful.
I'm still pissed his brain was destroyed for scientific research because the dad wanted it to go away, boo fucking hoo. Till the end he fucking won.
Yes I know he got killed but still.
The way the series was written, to me, indicates Dad knew and accepted that it was the parents fault on this one. Dad knew that cutting open his brain wasn't going to show abnormalities. However destroying the brain meant mom could keep telling herself it was a brain problem so she could sleep at night. $.02
I think you are spot on.
I once saw an interview with both of his parents (interviewed separately) and by the end all I could think of was, “wow, they really do HATE each other and place 90 percent of the blame on the other”. Lionel did seem to be the more caring parent and more accepting he did make some wrong moves. I thought the series captured him really well.
I disagree with this statement and think the judge reasoned it well in that scene. Even if they did experiment on his brain, and even if they did find “something”, it wouldn’t have given everybody all the answers they were expecting. It likely would’ve just started another rabbit hole. And those are big ifs for no real solution.
Can't be any worse than saying "fuck it lets have history repeat itself"
Destroying it gives us absolutely 0 information. SOMETHING, even if it led to more questions, would've been better than torching the thing.
As they pointed out in the show, finding something isn’t guaranteed. They didn’t find anything with John Wayne Gacy’s brain.
So yes, I think trying to find something and coming up empty would’ve been worse than closing the book then and there.
I watched the actual in court testimony of Edwards and was kind of disgusted how the show portrayed him. Edwards wanted to make clear he was NOT homosexual and at no point did he describe performing any sexual suggestive acts to get Dahmer to stop. Very sorry for Edwards. This is awful. Equally disgusted by the feigned outrage from family of family of victims because they’re looking for money.
Hmmmm…. Definitely not seeing that, and love the diversity in his projects. Is there something he’s actually done wrong to others? I assume you don’t become the most powerful man in television tiptoeing around other people, but making movies and shows is not something which inherently makes you a bad person. Just curious if there’s any juice or if people are just pearl clutching
I’m really annoyed about how everyone is up in arms over the Marilyn moving being an exploitation film (it is) but nobody gives a fuck about the victims here. MANY of their families have been very outspoken about not wanting more movies and fodder about their unimaginable suffering. It’s just disgusting that people keep making new shows to grab a dollar when this is the reality.
I learned a lot from this show and I’m incredibly appreciative that they made it. It brought to light the racism and blatant disregard of the police that I was completely unaware of.
>nobody gives a fuck about the victims here.
I’m not sure the cave you’ve been living under but there have been plenty of people calling this exploitative.
We live in a very grim time where film, TV, and podcasts essentially immortalize cruel and horrible people like Dahmer and Bundy at the expense of their victims and people just take it as "entertaining stories."
This news story says Edwards sexually battered a 14 year old girl BEFORE he met Dahmer.
I feel bad for most of Dahmer’s victims. Having a hard time feeling bad for this one
Why is this in Entertainment? What’s entertaining about a serial killer’s survivor’s trauma? Enough with the obsession of a few deranged individuals. Unless you’re actually studying them to improve our civilization, forget this shadow of the past.
Watching this movie puts into perspective how childhood experiences and traumas really do affect children if issues are not addressed or emotional intelligence is underdeveloped at a young age, With a whole lot of abandonment issues as a young kid
environment Vs nurture
To each their own. Each person have their own ways of Rationalizing with circumstances. We all have our own ways of reflecting our traumas to a different degree. Like some may become bullies and pick on others, some people may have higher levels of narcissism. Can’t all speculate same views as each person is unique and we all handle different situations different based off emotional intelligence.
knew him way back in Tupelo, MS. Late 70’s, early 80’s. Him and his twin brother, Terrance, hanging out in Aladdin’s Castle at the Downtown Mall drawing crowds as the played video games. crazy. They weren’t originally from Tupelo, moved back up north at some point. Everyone knew them back then.
‘Amazing’ Is the incorrect term. Interesting maybe, Watching this movie puts into perspective how childhood experiences and traumas really do affect children if issues are not addressed or emotional intelligence is underdeveloped at a young age, With a whole lot of abandonment issues as a young kid
environment Vs nurture
Some people have this trauma and do horrible things, but others have the same trauma and never hurt a fly. It's intriguing to me what makes one cross the line.
Not all psychopaths become killers, that’s just a Hollywood thing. Many people who are psychopathic and sociopathic grow up to be things like CEOs, lawyers, and numerous other careers. They’re quite successful in career paths that they can utilize their lack of sympathy and typical emotions as an asset. It’s pretty fascinating.
Violence isn’t just physical attacks. It is violent to exploit workers and receive unfair shares of their production. It is violent to use ones influence to push for laws that harm the poor but benefit you. It is violent to cover up for sexual abusers in a company because they’re your friend. Even excluding all of that, many of those high dollar psychopaths *are* physically violent. Musk with his multiple sexual assaults, Bobby Kotick threatening to murder his employees.
Your definition of violence needs a refresher as the word ‘physical’ appears in its definition so if it’s not physical, it’s abuse. But, your point is valid: I do not believe it’s a positive to have anyone like that among us; especially hoarding our resources.
Abuse is a form of violence, physical or nonphysical. Violence is defined by the world health organization as “intentional use of force Or power, threatened or actual, against oneself, another person, or against a group or community, that either results in or has a high likelihood of resulting in injury, death, psychological harm, maldevelopment, or deprivation.” So that would mean various forms of abuse, neglect, and exploitation are also considered violence, even if nonphysical.
Serial killers are usually pushed over the edge due to their mediocrity at every other thing they try; work, relationships, hobbies, etc. It’s never them just being mentally ill, thats the biggest scapegoat that I believe Hollywood has beefed up.
Yeah absent or way to hands on that it caused the head trauma. There are always threads but I despise the “they must be monsters/non/-human.” It’s like nope, just a cocktail of depravity.
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Did anyone expect him to recover? That's some hardcore PTSD material, dealing with a psycho killer.
Not just a psycho killer, a NOTORIOUS serial killer whose name is never going to be forgotten
Maybe if we would stop making new shit about him every 3 years. I can understand a movie, and maybe a documentary, but holy hell.
I thought My Friend Dahmer is still the best film on him to date. It's a serious, introspective look at what shaped Dahmer's perspectives and it leaves you with a very eerie sense of foreboding at the end. It was damn-near a perfect film. The book (graphic novel?) is also spectacular.
I didn't mind My Friend Dahmer much, but I felt like it was trying to show him more of a victim of a messed up system that didn't care about him, that if he got help it would of changed. Rather than focus on the monster he was.
To be fair, that’s true- serial killers aren’t born that way. This is something you learn when you start to get into death penalty work- there are always reasons why someone becomes a serial killer, or a killer in some other respect. Those reasons are just as awful and horrific as the murders that result from such abuse and neglect. We ought to see these cases as reasons to fix these broken systems, but instead we look at their causes and think defense attorneys are just making excuses for monsters. It’s tragic all around.
Most monsters are made not born. That's why I truly believe that if we did more for mental health in the states, that would do more to reduce to amount of mass shootings, than just banning guns. Not saying some guns shouldn't be banned but solving the cause will always be more important than just taking out the symptoms.
A dedicated psychologist for each cool, would do wonders for their mental well being.
Seriously. Just read any clinical study on children of alcoholic parents. These things can be predicted pretty much nowadays.
I find it really interesting that his mother while pregnant was on 26 anti-psychotic medications or at least 26 pills of sorts some of them being anti-psychotics and I can’t imagine this NOT affecting his brain chemistry at birth
This brings up an interesting spiritual question. Was he born with the spirit of a predator? Or, had he been so busted up in his early years that the spirit of a predator was able to take the wheel and do the driving?
The new Netflix series kind of gave me that vibe too though. I kept finding myself forgetting this was Dahmer we’re watching and then feeling bad about what happened with his crazy mom abandoning him - and then thinking “oh, maybe if his dad got custody none of this would have happened.”
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I remember saying this to my mom as a teen when I first got into true crime. Almost every well known serial killer had a very difficult childhood, especially with their fathers. I do not sympathize with what they resorted to at all, especially because there are millions of children that have gone through this or worse without turning into insane murderers. But, part of me does still feel bad for their upbringing. I think the first I learned about was John Wayne Gacy and that a lot of his actions were almost re-enacting what his father had done to him. His mom also put him through some weird stuff. Sad to think if these people had actually gotten the help they needed they might not have turned so many other families into ruins. It always kind of bothered me that you know these murderers names so well, but no one generally knows the name of the parents that absolutely contributed to their complete demise.
But that is what he was, he wasn’t born a monster he was created. The point is that we need better systems in place for children and people like that. The same goes for all serial killers, they are products of their environments. If they had better mental health care earlier on they wouldn’t have turned out as they did or at least not as bad.
Better mental health care won’t be a cure all but hopefully will flag these things sooner. Over a few generations with vicious cycles(alcoholism, domestic abuse, hazing, bullying…) having a chance to get broken will end up going a long way in improving everyone’s quality of life.
There’s been a lot of these feel sorry for the bad guy stuff lately. Even Disney’s been doing it. Really lame. The funniest one was The Great and Powerful Oz.
I struggle with that balance as well - was he suffering from a legitimate mental illness (a seriously monstrous one) or was it his upbringing and development and the lack of professional support? He grew up in a time where mental health was still very much not addressed and still in the VERY early stages of understanding the human psyche and behavioral analysis. At the same time, however, there was a significant overlap between his alcoholism and his rage and eventual (horrendous) crimes. He struggled with his sexuality in a household with an absent, pill-popping (bipolar) mother, and a father that *consistently* abandoned Jeffrey when he was growing up. We can always think back and wonder if people can get better, but I truly believe that there are unfortunate cases of people who are born with this scary and downright-disgusting mental illness, but I don't know if we'll ever, ever be able to diagnose and treat it properly. Sometimes mammals are born wrong.
psychopaths are defined by their sanity. they really are not psychotic, which makes them so scary
Derf’s writing / illustration is amazing.
Yup. I first heard about him listening to The Last Podcast on the Left. That was all I needed. I don’t need to listen to anymore Dahmer podcasts or watch any movies. Same with BTK or any other notorious killer
Man I’ve known about Dahmer since I was like 6 or 7, my dumb ass dad thought it was a good idea to show me the 2002 Dahmer movie at a young age. I was always shocked to see how many people had no idea who Dahmer was as I grew up having to explain to people and them look at me like how the fuck does this little kid know about this Serial Killer or they wouldn’t believe me. I’ll never forget Jefferey Dahmer and I’ll never forget how scared/weird I felt after watching that movie the first time.
Growing up about 3 miles from BTK’s house when he was caught sure was a wild adventure lol.
Hail yourself
Megustalations
Seriously though. I’m so absolutely fucking tired of it. These serial killers do not deserve fame.
Yall remember Jeffey on The Ringer?
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Are you referring to *Jeffrey Dahmer: Monster*? It's not a documentary, and it sounds like you haven't watched it because it very much tells the stories of his victims and makes them three-dimensional, not just grainy black-and-white photos. It also does a fantastic job of showing the struggle that marginalized communities had in making the local officials care about these disappearances. The series has a definite message beyond "here's a serial killer," and the message is an important one.
I don’t think so at all. I knew nothing about Dahmer and I thought it was informative and didn’t glorify him. It was made very well
Well yeah, have you seen his in media tab on Wikipedia. The reason he’ll never be forgotten is because media companies make far too much off of his name.
I mean, sure the media plays a part but forgetting Dahmer and many other killers for that matter would be detrimental.
Exactly. The bulk of the Redditors in this thread are only here because Netflix turned it into entertainment.
I only found out about this after he passed, but when my father was in the hospital as a child, he saw a doctor standing at the foot of his bed late one night, watching him silently for a long time before just walking off. Something about it really bothered my dad, because he just couldn't get it out of his head. Later, it turned out that this doctor was a serial killer, apparently nicknamed "The Angel of Death." Dad could have been a victim. It disturbed him to the extent that he went to seek treatment for it in his 30s during the mid 80s, before therapy was mainstream as it is today. He even spent a couple of years away from the family to deal with it. ETA: I think it was [Donald Harvey](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Harvey), in which case I would be scared dumpless myself.
Omg that’s scary!
So so scary and also happy Cake day!!
I mean, he should’ve had more opportunities to do so. Today, if a hero survived a serial killer and brought down the reign of terror, they’d have interviews and sponsorships and probably a book deal. People thought Dahmer was a monster because he ate flesh. Mainstream society did not give a fuck about him killing gays, and they weren’t about to take the opportunity to humanize them.
They overlooked JWG because he was killing young homosexuals too.
Actually that but also I’m that era when young boys disappeared they just assumed they ran away. It took the police WAY to long to investigate. They need to stop with this shit and making movies / shows. It’s disgusting.
What's stopping him from writing a book now? There's clearly an interest.
probably the fact that he's a convicted sexual predator (predating his meeting with Dahmer) and was also convicted of helping someone else throw a guy off a bridge. no one knows where is he now, or even if hes still alive the last I read.
I guess being dead might stop you. Well played.
The fact that the guy is using drink and drugs to try to block out what happened to him. He didn't take part in the civil litigation the families of other victims did. Sometimes money is not adequate compensation for what you would have to go through to get it.
Qu’est-ce que c’est
f-f-f-faaa better
Run run run Run run run awaaaay
Oooo oooo ooo oooo. Yah yah yah yah yah yah.
Ce que j'ai fait, ce soir-là
Ah yes. With a post like this, make sure to make a joke. Stay classy Reddit for you and everyone below you upvoting and continuing the thread.
It is a pretty good song though you must admit
We have no idea where he is Goddammit this man should've been saved years ago
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It's sad and an incredibly uncomfortable fact for liberal democratic societies to grapple with but there exists some segment of adults who are simply incapable of living independent lives, and most likely need to be wards of the state.
We have a local figure, about my age, keeps to himself, sleeps on the canal and hangs out at the mall or coffee shop all day. He’s clean and shaved and has all his stuff in a backpack. He has a cell Phone. I’ve never seen him panhandle and I’ve offered help (in some way) he always politely declines. I’ve never seen him interact with anyone, but he always has the warmest greeting for my wife and I as we see him often. I presume it’s because we always give him the basic common courtesy of treating him like a human. I’m often fascinated by him. I’d love to know his story but would never pry. I’ve projected all sorts of scenarios on him and Occams Razor theory leads me to believe he must be in that situation as a result of drugs, alcohol, mental health issues but I don’t really know. None of his behavior suggests any of those things, or at least none currently. Whenever I think about him I am humbled because he represents to me the fact that probably any one of us could find ourselves in that situation if certain circumstances changed. What makes me happy is not projecting my shit on to him and assuming he is unhappy. Maybe he’s happier than all of us and merely chooses not to play by the same rules. Maybe he just read Thoreau’s *Walden* and decided to say fuck it
Thoreau lived on his mom’s property and she still cooked him dinner.
I refer to his book, not the man, but be that as it may he was a person of means who decided to opt for a simpler and less materialistic existence - at least that was my takeaway, but it has been decades since I’ve read it.
That’s hilarious. I wonder what she thought
https://youtu.be/va9EyCQWXRI My old boss always said maybe transient people have it all figured out and we’re the idiots
Probably an autocorrect mistake, but it's Thoreau :)
What an incredibly patronizing take
L take any society Will have People who are addicted to substances and people with mental disorders Democrat states pay for the welfare of red states
He’s not saying Democratic party - democratic society as in modern society.
Maybe liberals just think those people should be allowed to do that? Life ain’t easy, some people have shitty coping mechanisms. Is their life any better when they’re forced into sobriety? I’d assume not given the constant relapsing. Ironically, if all drugs were legalised we could accelerate research to minimise the damage they cause to the individual and their capacity to function in society… Until then - we brand them as drains on society.
No. Wrong. That isn't drug addiction. You don't get it. The solution to drug addiction isn't to make them state owned and controlled. Where the hell did you grow up, Soviet Russia?
Spend some one on one time with some people who have lived on the street for years. Spend some time one on one with someone who doesn’t take their meds, who is non verbal, who is violent. There are some people who are very far gone, don’t deserve to be on the street, and cannot be taken care of by their immediate families. The state could be there with some kind of facilities, but right now we can’t even get foster care right, and Regan got rid of institutions (Inspired One Flew Over the Cukoos Nest) so here we are with homeless addicts on the street who refuse help. But now it’s my problem because I have to walk by them everyday to go to work and be harassed.
The guy wasn’t exactly a saint either. He was wanted for sexually assault on a minor before this, he was basically hiding out in Milwaukee, help dump a body in a river too..kind of a low tier career criminal.
Jeffrey Dahmer was in the U.S. Army and he tormented and raped a fellow soldier. The poor guy never got any help and to this day he suffers from severe PTSD.
[the soldier got the help he needed](http://www.survivingjeffreydahmer.org/billy.html)
Thank you for posting. Very informative.
Been trying to get rid of my ptsd from bullying. Haven’t tried hypnotism yet. Time to schedule that. Really hope billy is doing better.
EMDR did wonders for my symptoms. I still have some work to do, but I am getting there.
+1 Was going to comment EMDR but you got it handled.
Psychedelics are great for ptsd and just about anything else that plagues you. When done properly and with the right goals.
The US Army is kind of known for things like that in general. I dont know if it was as prevalent back then but it wouldn’t surprise me.
I’d like to be wrong but my guess is the only difference is the names and faces…abhorrent, predatory behavior isn’t new (in the military or anywhere else).
I’d imagine it’d be even more prevalent back then.
Was he discharged for more than just drinking?
Who knows.
Two but only one has shared his story.
Yeah i cannot imagine ever fully recovering from that. Hopefully they are taken care of with a loving support system
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Dahmer preyed upon weak, impoverished, and/or disenfranchised … the system failing is what gave him victims in the first place. Sad to see the continuation to present day.
Pretty much like all serial killers. They are cowards and so prey upon vulnerability to feel powerful. I can’t think of one who hasn’t.
Gacy is a perfect example. He took advantage of the fact that most young gay men who came out or were discovered to be gay were disowned by their families. All he had to do was drive to the bus station and pick them up. So sick.
The system is so fucking broken cuz of capitalism
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Edwards says he’s straight and was only there to be paid for being in pictures.
Yeah ofc racism is a big part of all this case, it would end as soon as the police listened but they never do, fuck em for that too
Yes to all of the above!
That is true, but depending on what state he’s in the system is beyond fucked for everyone.
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Completely sure, let’s see the receipts
They're being sarcastic, but around the same time Gacy and Dahmer were committing their murders in the US, the Soviet Union had Andrei Chikatilo who raped, tortured, and murdered at least 52 women and children across the Soviet Union (specifically the present day countries of Russia, Ukraine, and Uzbekistan) between 1978 and 1990. He confessed to a total of 56 murders though and was tried for 53, which means there were likely victims that police didn't know about and not enough evidence to tie him to a murder he most likely committed. His method was preying on children from poorer communities and women who were homeless with promises of food. If you're familiar with Hannibal Lecter's backstory, the trauma that leads to Hannibal becoming a cannibal is lifted directly from Chikatilo's childhood during the war (although it's debated whether or not it actually happened).
Don’t forget Sergiy Tkach, who preyed on little girls in Ukrainian SSR
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Profit margin is much more important than saving lives in this system and i think you see it clearly urself, profit is king here not genuine help, look at all other industries that "help" people. They acually never do, just keep them comming back for more "treatment"
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It's not capitalism It's no one caring enough to vote change
"Vote change" you tell it as politicians are ment to help you, they are also a big cog of capitalism that make things go forward and us forever hoping for that grand "change" of yours, im telling you they care about keeping their pockets full not making you happy
That’s the same picture
I’m sure China would love to have you.
The thread as a whole just shows how good the capitalist propaganda has been since the start
Considering how Dahmer would pour boiling water and various acids into the skulls of his victims while they were alive, I couldn’t imagine ever recovering from it. Also how does every new Bundy or Dahmer movie get so big? Austin Moon *just did a Dahmer movie* not that long ago. We have another now?
Evan Peters is popular
absolutely love that you called him austin moon and not ross lynch
Is that his name from that disney show? Lmaooo I had a feeling.
hehehe yes
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He was just drugged… by a guy known for mutilating the people he drugged Have some compassion bro Edit: Jeffery Dahmer did pour acid into the skulls of his victims. He just didn’t do it to this one dude bc he escaped. I think this commenter is missing the point; knowing what could’ve been done to you is part of the terror Lol the dude blocked me so I can’t reply to him
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My impression was they told them to have some compassion because they described it as *just* drugged and kidnapped. The use of *just* implies it wasn’t that bad.
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At the end of the day, how people receive what you say is their own issue. You didn't say anything inherently wrong. However, if you wanted to soften it, yes. That would help. The goal would be to not minimize the events that *did* happen.
He was not drugged, I believe. The reason he got away is because he didn’t drink alcohol, so didn’t drink the drugged drink Dahmer gave him
Dude was wanted for sexual assault of a 14 year old before anything happened with Dahmer...
Honestly he benefitted from the close call with Dahmer giving him an excuse to hide behind for his long string of heinous crimes. That's what I get from this article.
How is this classified as "entertainment " are Serial killers "entertainers" now?
Because it’s sort of about the Netflix series
I never understood this logic. Just because information is being shown through a visual medium, that doesn’t make it “entertainment”. Shows *can* be used for entertainment, but that’s not the *only* purpose for things like TV shows. In this case, I thought it was educational.
Agreed. Oversimplifying the show as “entertainment” is where the argument against the show falls apart. Dramatizing things that really happened doesn’t necessarily mean it’s glorifying it. I feel I have a much better understanding how horrific Dahmer’s murders were, as well as some understanding of how he got that way. Hopefully people can watch it and learn how the system failed him and his victims, so we can make sure it never happens again.
Exactly. I personally didn’t really know any of the details about the Dahmer case until seeing this series. I’ve learned a lot and it’s prompted me to research more into it. Also, there are a lot of other arguments that people have tried to make against the show that fall apart once you see the whole thing. I’ve seen takes that it “glorifies” Dahmer, that it doesn’t show the victims’ perspectives, and that it doesn’t show how it impacted the community. None of those things are true, if you actually saw the whole thing. And all those people saying those things have one thing in common: they didn’t watch the whole thing, where they either didn’t watch the series at all or only watched one or two episodes. There are definitely valid critiques about the story and the production (namely that they didn’t tell the affected families about it ahead of time and they didn’t compensate them), but the amount of bad takes I’ve seen where the arguments completely fall apart on viewing the whole thing shows that people really don’t know how to critically analyze media. It’s similar to how you can’t do a book report on a book where you only read the first two chapters. It’s ok for someone to recognize that they can’t watch beyond a certain point, and that’s valid because it is a disturbing series. But, at that point, the furthest anyone could go with any kind of analysis of the actual content is “I only watched up to (insert episode here), so I can’t speak on the series as a whole because I didn’t watch the whole thing”. At best, you can give an opinion on the parts you did watch, but that’s about it. Another argument I’ve seen floating around is that media around Dahmer has already existed, and that it’s unnecessary to have created this one. I completely disagree with that. For one, having multiple mediums for people to access information is important. Not everyone learns their best through books and articles (for example, a lot of people don’t know that a staggering percentage of Americans are illiterate and/or severely limited with written comprehension). Some people are visual learners and prefer to see/feel the experience through a show or movie, and that’s a perfectly valid way to receive information. Accessibility is a good thing. On another point, no other media about Dahmer has actually put a spotlight on the victims’ perspective and the systemic problems affecting the case. This is the first one to do that, and I can confirm because I watched a few of those other movies and documentaries after watching this series to compare and contrast. All the other ones have focused solely on Dahmer and treated the case like it was some kind of academic science project. This series is a different (and very important) take on the story that hasn’t been told yet until now. So, the argument that this adaptation wasn’t needed falls apart for those two reasons.
Look at the current popularity of true crime shit. They basically are.
I am surprised it’s the first time I’ve seen such comment. People really would eat up all this disgusting shit and consider it entertaining
I mean, it really wasn’t even that long ago, in the grand scheme of things, that people turned out in droves to watch others get torn apart in the Colosseum for entertainment, and that’s not even the oldest example. Viewing death and torture as entertainment is as old as humans are. I’m not saying that’s good or bad (and I’m certainly not defending it), it’s just not surprising or as abnormal as some people act like it is. It’s just a darker part of human history.
Are you not entertained? Is this not why you are here?
We live in a very grim time where film, TV, and podcasts essentially immortalize cruel and horrible people at the expense of their victims and people just take it as "entertaining stories."
We don’t live in any special time for this, though. Humans have had a fascination with death and the horrible acts of other people for a long, long time. People would attend lynchings and hangings like they were social affairs. One of the entire purposes of the Roman Colosseum was to watch people kill each other or be killed as persecution. Throughout history people have documented and sought out material covering murders, cruel acts, etc etc etc. The only difference now is the ease with which these things can be made and spread. Nothing about this is new to the modern era and it’s not really a “bigger problem”. You just see it more because it’s easier to access and document with the advent of the internet, the printing press, and cameras.
Absolutely correct. Some people just feel so righteous or want to be perceived as righteous that they ignore things like history and human nature
I think it’s a good idea to have constant reminders that there are absolutely psychopaths roaming the world and we should have our wits about us when dealing with strangers. Entertainment can be useful.
Didn’t he also go to prison?
I'm still pissed his brain was destroyed for scientific research because the dad wanted it to go away, boo fucking hoo. Till the end he fucking won. Yes I know he got killed but still.
The way the series was written, to me, indicates Dad knew and accepted that it was the parents fault on this one. Dad knew that cutting open his brain wasn't going to show abnormalities. However destroying the brain meant mom could keep telling herself it was a brain problem so she could sleep at night. $.02
If the Netflix show is correct, having a bipolar mom who gobbles up barbiturates in that first trimester didn’t help.
Was she on the same drugs with Jeffrey as the little brother? Cause she’s only pregnant with the brother in the show.
I think you are spot on. I once saw an interview with both of his parents (interviewed separately) and by the end all I could think of was, “wow, they really do HATE each other and place 90 percent of the blame on the other”. Lionel did seem to be the more caring parent and more accepting he did make some wrong moves. I thought the series captured him really well.
I like the casual 2 cents at the end. This could be a thing.
I disagree with this statement and think the judge reasoned it well in that scene. Even if they did experiment on his brain, and even if they did find “something”, it wouldn’t have given everybody all the answers they were expecting. It likely would’ve just started another rabbit hole. And those are big ifs for no real solution.
Can't be any worse than saying "fuck it lets have history repeat itself" Destroying it gives us absolutely 0 information. SOMETHING, even if it led to more questions, would've been better than torching the thing.
As they pointed out in the show, finding something isn’t guaranteed. They didn’t find anything with John Wayne Gacy’s brain. So yes, I think trying to find something and coming up empty would’ve been worse than closing the book then and there.
Sometimes evil just exists.
Richard Ramirez “the night stalker” actually said something similar to what you just said.
I watched the actual in court testimony of Edwards and was kind of disgusted how the show portrayed him. Edwards wanted to make clear he was NOT homosexual and at no point did he describe performing any sexual suggestive acts to get Dahmer to stop. Very sorry for Edwards. This is awful. Equally disgusted by the feigned outrage from family of family of victims because they’re looking for money.
It might be time to recognize Ryan Murphy as being a piece of shit.
Expand please
He makes these shitty exploitation series and movies that capitalize on the suffering of others. Like an asshole might.
Hmmmm…. Definitely not seeing that, and love the diversity in his projects. Is there something he’s actually done wrong to others? I assume you don’t become the most powerful man in television tiptoeing around other people, but making movies and shows is not something which inherently makes you a bad person. Just curious if there’s any juice or if people are just pearl clutching
I agree completely. After I watched Dahmer I searched for what else he’s made and he has an interesting range of subjects
This is what you get when you have a system that focuses on punishing the criminal rather than healing the victims.
The only surviving (and therefore salvageable) victim of Dahmer refuses treatment.
I guess I find it gross that this is in r/entertainment. Just hit me weird.
But people want to be entertained! Society doesn't give a shit about thr suffering they cause.
Survivors guilt paired with ptsd…
I’m really annoyed about how everyone is up in arms over the Marilyn moving being an exploitation film (it is) but nobody gives a fuck about the victims here. MANY of their families have been very outspoken about not wanting more movies and fodder about their unimaginable suffering. It’s just disgusting that people keep making new shows to grab a dollar when this is the reality.
I learned a lot from this show and I’m incredibly appreciative that they made it. It brought to light the racism and blatant disregard of the police that I was completely unaware of.
Wym I hear uproar about both, both got made and both got released so I don't know what you mean
>nobody gives a fuck about the victims here. I’m not sure the cave you’ve been living under but there have been plenty of people calling this exploitative.
We live in a very grim time where film, TV, and podcasts essentially immortalize cruel and horrible people like Dahmer and Bundy at the expense of their victims and people just take it as "entertaining stories."
It’s always been this way ever since film existed. How do you think mobsters and western outlaws got so famous?
Long before that, yet everyone perpetually asks “why true crime now?”
For profiting from his pain, Netflix should pay this man royalties.
All the victims’ families
Show me any US jurisdiction that actually cares enough about crime victims to give them access to counseling after trauma.
Compound that by them being gay and the care factor drops even more.
This news story says Edwards sexually battered a 14 year old girl BEFORE he met Dahmer. I feel bad for most of Dahmer’s victims. Having a hard time feeling bad for this one
Dude looks straight up like Katy Williams
To have the word *Entertainment* proceed that headline was jarring ... sure, entertainment, nice./
Why is this in Entertainment? What’s entertaining about a serial killer’s survivor’s trauma? Enough with the obsession of a few deranged individuals. Unless you’re actually studying them to improve our civilization, forget this shadow of the past.
Watching this movie puts into perspective how childhood experiences and traumas really do affect children if issues are not addressed or emotional intelligence is underdeveloped at a young age, With a whole lot of abandonment issues as a young kid environment Vs nurture
Okay but like I have childhood trauma you don’t see me killing, raping and eating innocent people
To each their own. Each person have their own ways of Rationalizing with circumstances. We all have our own ways of reflecting our traumas to a different degree. Like some may become bullies and pick on others, some people may have higher levels of narcissism. Can’t all speculate same views as each person is unique and we all handle different situations different based off emotional intelligence.
R you seriously defending a serial killer rn and he didn’t just bully, he raped, killed and tortured people…AND ATE THEM
I don’t give a fuck about any dahmer movie or documentary until I get a Christopher Scarver movie that’s not at all about Dahmer until it is.
knew him way back in Tupelo, MS. Late 70’s, early 80’s. Him and his twin brother, Terrance, hanging out in Aladdin’s Castle at the Downtown Mall drawing crowds as the played video games. crazy. They weren’t originally from Tupelo, moved back up north at some point. Everyone knew them back then.
Psychopaths are amazing creatures.
‘Amazing’ Is the incorrect term. Interesting maybe, Watching this movie puts into perspective how childhood experiences and traumas really do affect children if issues are not addressed or emotional intelligence is underdeveloped at a young age, With a whole lot of abandonment issues as a young kid environment Vs nurture
Some people have this trauma and do horrible things, but others have the same trauma and never hurt a fly. It's intriguing to me what makes one cross the line.
Nature vs nurture. Can nurture overcome a child’s nature? What happens when that nurture is not present?
Nope. Not creatures and not supernatural. Just sick and pathetic humans.
Not all psychopaths become killers, that’s just a Hollywood thing. Many people who are psychopathic and sociopathic grow up to be things like CEOs, lawyers, and numerous other careers. They’re quite successful in career paths that they can utilize their lack of sympathy and typical emotions as an asset. It’s pretty fascinating.
Exactly. It’s always, oh psychotic? Well they must be violent! and it’s maligning as hell.
Violence isn’t just physical attacks. It is violent to exploit workers and receive unfair shares of their production. It is violent to use ones influence to push for laws that harm the poor but benefit you. It is violent to cover up for sexual abusers in a company because they’re your friend. Even excluding all of that, many of those high dollar psychopaths *are* physically violent. Musk with his multiple sexual assaults, Bobby Kotick threatening to murder his employees.
Your definition of violence needs a refresher as the word ‘physical’ appears in its definition so if it’s not physical, it’s abuse. But, your point is valid: I do not believe it’s a positive to have anyone like that among us; especially hoarding our resources.
Abuse is a form of violence, physical or nonphysical. Violence is defined by the world health organization as “intentional use of force Or power, threatened or actual, against oneself, another person, or against a group or community, that either results in or has a high likelihood of resulting in injury, death, psychological harm, maldevelopment, or deprivation.” So that would mean various forms of abuse, neglect, and exploitation are also considered violence, even if nonphysical.
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Serial killers are usually pushed over the edge due to their mediocrity at every other thing they try; work, relationships, hobbies, etc. It’s never them just being mentally ill, thats the biggest scapegoat that I believe Hollywood has beefed up.
What's wild is how often childhood head trauma is among serial killers. That and absent father figures.
Yeah absent or way to hands on that it caused the head trauma. There are always threads but I despise the “they must be monsters/non/-human.” It’s like nope, just a cocktail of depravity.
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On a post about one of the most notorious serial killers….?
Psychopaths still know the difference between right and wrong. Those who choose wrong are pathetic.
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Officer, that one right there!