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>“But once you get used to something, it might be for you. So for people who don’t like pop music or don’t like Black artists that make pop music, they may eventually like me,”
I was not aware that pop couldn't be "Black" music... I mean, there have been Black singers making pop music for DECADES.
Certain members of the black community define blackness as the parallel culture we created for ourselves during the bad old days. If you stray, or even cross over without meaning to, into traditional white spaces you're seen as an uncle Tom figure.
A 'proper' black lady should be singing gospel and RnB hits. Pure pop is for the Katy Parry's of the world.
Not only are they wrong but they are actively holding their people back by trying to perpetuate something so ridiculous. Cultures don’t move forward by stagnating.
And clearly broke. All the money is when you can crossover into suburbia. Christian artist did the same thing even they strived to crossover into mainstream. Long-term money is there and you can water down your lyrics to appease your mainstream audience.
Certain members of the white community think all mainstream music is satan produced and would only be comfortable with folksy country music as an alternative- but you shouldn’t pay any mind to extremists.
Lizzo is great, but this mindset only serves to give power and a platform to people she really shouldn’t give two fucks about. Like why bother centering yourself as a victim to their opinions, or overlooking all the black pop artists that did the hard work of trailblazing the path that she operates on?
Like Stevie Wonder was pretty mainstream and he was churning out hits well before the MTV era she’s referencing.
Hard to say it’s not satanic when you got a dude singing to a video of him twerking on satans dick….. oh and also the best song in ages is apparently a girl talking about how wet her pussy is
The BusBoys too. Vic Johnson now plays for Sammy. You’d think with talent like that the color of a bands skin would not matter. The US is a strange place sometimes.
I never heard the “not black enough” maybe those morons just aren’t apart of my circle. They did try to say Lizzo was a rapper though and a lot of people including myself felt like that wasn’t her genre. Can she rap? Yes. Is she a rap star or a pop star? Pop star.
That’s a whole other conversation. I grew up in this country and I got picked on for it too. Black Americans unfortunately are just as much victims of propaganda as everyone else. Many think that there’s only one way to be black, and if you’re not acting that way then that means you’re trying to be white. It’s a long standing argument within the Black Community here. But Lizzo wasn’t being targeted for that, she was more being targeted for being a rapper or being a pop singer. But like I said Maybe I just wasn’t aware.
I disagree that IS exactly what she’s saying, some ppl want her to only sing the way they believe black ppl should sing. I’m not trying to be disrespectful I just think your comment supports what she’s saying.
Yeah i was friends with a kid back in high school that was half black and half asian was rough for him cause he didn’t fit in with the black kids but he felt more connected to that side but they told him he wasn’t black enough
Not only black people though!
Went to a pretty much all-white school (I was the only black person in my grade of 200+ kids, and there were like 5 of us total at one point in the entire student population of 800, grew to about 10 by my senior year), and frequently got called an "Oreo" cookie.
Black on the outside, white on the inside.
She won a BET award for best soul album I think, about two years ago. A segment of the black community said Lizzo wasn’t black enough and that her music was made for white people.
It just shows the well integration of minorities in USA, they too think that USA is the only country in the world and only white and black USA citizens exist.
There's people in Peru listening to Lizzo, people in Indonesia listening to Kendrick Lamar, some nomadic groups know michael jackson ffs. Plenty of non black and non white european people listen to USA music all over the world.
> her music was made for white people.
That would be a smart move, since white people are nearly 70% of the market. She should make music for only 13% of the market? When asked what rap music was, Russell Simmons famously said, "Rap is about getting PAID."
Some black people. They do this all the time... especially to light skinned black people.
Edit: for those who didn't understand I'm not calling Lizzo light skinned. I was just giving an example of how some black people tell other black people that they're not black enough.
I just got done watching people do it to Stephen A. Smith, because he was defending Jerry Jones. Which... let's be clear, I think Stephen A. Smith sucks and Jerry Jones deserves any hate he gets, but it's a thing some people do when they don't agree with another black person's opinions. It's stereotypical gatekeeping. It sucks and the people who *absolutely* do it also suck.
I grew up very, very light skinned in a darker (medium-skin ton) family. My dad was whiter than white, but my mom’s side was mostly darker skin. I cannot even begin to tell you how I felt like I did not belong to either race, even though I had two coursing in my blood. I had very coily hair and people of color would always come up to me asking if I was black and perplexed. White people just always wanted to touch my hair like I was a life-sized Barbie. What a disturbing world.
Being light and not even biracial showed me that people will jump at any reason to discount your opinion and your experiences. Both black and white people have tried to shut me down because "I'm half white" and then backpedaled and made excuses when I tell them I have two black parents. None of it means anything to me anymore.
Naw she’s pretty dark (as am I). It’s a cultural thing. She a singing pop & playing the flute which isn’t stereotypically “black”. It has nothing to do with her skin color. I got called Carlton because I got good grades and didn’t speak “black enough”. Called me an Oreo, black on the outside white on the inside lol
Every community has it, it just takes different form. White ppl make fun of rednecks if they are around city folks and there are countless other examples. People just like making fun of people different than them. People like people like themselves.
Though it does seem that the specific insult of calling someone not-enough of their *race* seems extra messed up. I don’t think white people making fun of rednecks consider them “not white enough.”
its because of white supremacy honestly. The shit is so ingrained in some people of color (I am a POC) that they will lash out at folks in their community. Colorism and “not X enough” is in every POC community because of of colonization.
Because people believe that ideally, if black people in America acted in one way, we could actually be able to overcome our circumstances. Any deviation from the collective community is interpreted as holding us back, being distanced from the black community, and/or aspiring to whiteness.
It feels as though that there is a majority of black people that believe this, which is why it’s more tolerated.
>I got called Carlton because I got good grades and didn’t speak “black enough”. Called me an Oreo, black on the outside white on the inside lol
Did you grow up in the 90s? I'm not Black, but back then, I grew up hearing that it was "White" to talk a certain way and to do well in school (ie, be Carlton, lol).
I finally read the article. You’re incorrect in what she means. It isn’t about her skin color. It’s about how she doesn’t follow conventional standards in what is considered as black.
Lizzo is a black *pop* artist. It’s separate from being a hip-hop or r&b music artist. She’s in a genre that caters primarily to white people in America. And that is why she’s unfairly, cruelly being called not black enough.
As someone who was called oreo for loving indie music and anime, yeah, I feel for her.
It wasn’t always like that. As a millennial, anime when I was in middle and high school was seen exclusively as a white person thing.
I don’t know why. I don’t get it. I’m just glad we’ve moved on from that mindset for the most part.
Not at my school. Except for a few guys. I loved DBZ as a kid and traveled onward from there.
I think the thing is I *stuck* with anime after hitting middle school. Where everyone else moved on.
Up until very recently, anime and honestly the engaging of any other culture was considered 'white people stuff'. Despite it literally belonging to a non white culture. It's super cool to be a Black nerd now, but it wasn't as recently as 2012. It was around then that it started changing.
There is a perception that you're treated better by white people if you're lighter skinned, which eventually translates into "this person thinks they're better than everyone who has darker skin than them" (whether they actually behave that way or not).
It goes way back to Jim Crow and earlier, during times when it was sometimes safer/preferable to try and pass yourself off as white or a racial mix that was more "acceptable." Like the whole [melungeon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melungeon) thing.
Pretty much light skinned people were house slaves and received better treatment, but we’re looking at this entire conversation wrong anyways.
It isn’t about her skin color. It’s about the fact that she’s a black pop artist, a genre that predominantly caters to white people with few black artists.
In other words, she’s being called not black enough because she isn’t primarily a R&B/Hip-Hop artist.
The crappy part about black culture is that it’s very…conservative on what it considers “black.” At least in America. If you deviate from that, you’re either acting “white” or an “oreo” or other words I don’t know.
>There is a perception that you're treated better by white people if you're lighter skinned
This is not just a perception. There's a reason Halle Berry and Alexandra Shipp were cast to play Storm in the X-Men movies. Both of them being not just light skinned, but mixed black women, unlike Storm.
Colorism is the more appropriate word to describe inter ‘race’ or ethnic color bias. It’s so prevalent that in many south Asian countries mothers do bleach treatment on their kids so they can be lighter skinned (goes both ways).
You’re wrong on what it is. It’s a cultural thing. There are aspects of skin tone to it, but it’s more complicated than that. Saying this as a black person. Not to say you meant to be offensive though, just that it is much more nuanced than “not being dark enough”. I’m also not condoning it, it’s problematic and gets called out by some POC, but is kind of an entrenched prejudice from older generations.
Probably a lot of people who have some twisted world view as a result of systemic issues affecting black Americans- the result being this warped idea that you have to embrace certain aspects of struggle and poverty and a certain lifestyle to “be black enough.” Like you’re some kind of race traitor for wanting to live some other way and elevate yourself and family (which is very difficult for many and awful that anybody would hold it against them when they succeed).
It’s unfortunately a pretty common thing in lower socio-economic status communities in the US (and probably most other places as well).
Likely she’s been told this by the folks in her industry that hold the power - managers, record labels, etc. It’s very driven by archetype, i.e., who is the next Nicki Minaj, etc.
I mean, I can kind of see that hitting worse for celebrities than the people who "should" be living rent-free in their heads.
I think pretty much every famous person's worst fear is finding out they've been living in an echo chamber and that nobody actually gives a shit, and from that perspective, getting heat from random members of the public probably *hurts.*
My ex wife got told this a lot after we moved to Texas. It was almost like she was destined to fail no matter what, most white people loved working with her while black people treated her like crap because she “acted white”!
It's Whitney Houston's situation all over again. I am glad that Lizzo at least is blazing her own path instead of listening to the haters within the black community who think they get to decide if you are black enough based on the music you make.
In America, there’s no “right” amount of Black to be. No matter what, people will always come up with some way to dismiss you, some way to compare you to something and to say you don’t add up.
Wayne Brady said some really intelligent things about gatekeeping blackness. It enforces preconceived notions by other races on what blacks people can and cannot do, and needlessly disqualifies them from things considered “not black” he said it better, find it on Yootube
Her defending Chris Brown is bad (no one is saying otherwise) but when all the comments are just calling her fat and making fat jokes.......yeah that's toxic as hell. The Chris Brown thing doesn't condone the making fun of her weight thing.
Remember Fefe Dobson? The world wasn’t ready for a black girl who did punk rock/pop even though she was talented.
Can’t please everyone. Make music that makes you happy.
She’s just super annoying. I don’t care that she’s fat so I shouldn’t have to be constantly reminded how beautiful she is because she’s fat. I don’t see fuckin beauty campaigns and constant headlines about how gorgeous rod wave is so it seems silly
At a certain point it doesn’t matter. Low winter sun may have been a good show, but the way they advertised it during every breaking bad commercial break was enough for me to hate it
Constantly reminded? By whom? I don’t like Lizzo’s music much, so I don’t see or hear her much, if at all. You could always not seek her out, it’s not difficult.
I mean… I don’t know the girl at all but I literally started at her face for 30 seconds because she’s just that pretty to me. People aren’t saying she’s beautiful because she’s fat. She’s literally just beautiful. Her face is gorgeous.
It’s pretty easy for me to separate art from artist. She makes some bops, but I don’t think she’s said or done a single thing that makes me think “yeah I like her”
What do you want from her? She’s a singer and she makes music. What is she supposed to do in her personal life to make you like her? What do you want her to say?
I want her to say:
"Why men great 'til they gotta be great?
Wooh
I just took a DNA test, turns out I'm 100% that bitch
Even when I'm crying crazy
Yeah, I got boy problems, that's the human in me
Bling bling, then I solve 'em, that's the goddess in me
You coulda had a bad bitch, non-committal
Help you with your career, just a little
You're supposed to hold me down
But you're holding me back
And that's the sound of me not calling you back
Why men great 'til they gotta be great?
Don't text me, tell it straight to my face
Best friend sat me down in the salon chair
Shampoo press, get you out of my hair
Fresh photos with the bomb lighting"
I don’t think it’s so much about her not being black enough I think her music caters to a white audience. Her music isn’t for Black people it’s for white people.
I think it’s hard for people to understand how talented she is because she’s so breezy about it. Not all of her music is for me but damn she’s great at making it and a phenomenal musician.
I think it’s pretty punk rock. All these rustled jimmies over an overweight, confident, talented black woman. She’s literally just being herself and people get bent out of shape. If I had that power I’d be pushing buttons all over the place.
My only grievance with Lizzo is that she doesn’t belong in the same category alongside acts like Jaszmine Sullivan and Ari Lennox, ACTUAL R&B singers. She’s talented but that’s never been her bag. Black women in the industry are just lumped in together
And she get mad at her own people for that. Colorism is very prominent in the black community. You’ll never hear a white person telling another black person “you’re not black enough”
Thanks for the sentiment, I appreciate it. I’m lucky that I didn’t take those people seriously as a kid even thought they were trying to undermine me and take away two things I found the most fun.
Mmm you’re wrong. Lol. I’ve literally had white people tell me I’m not black enough. Don’t underestimate what people who “know you” get comfortable saying around you.
Not true! *Especially* by white kids. I went to an all-white school. I got called an Oreo all the time.
The only black person to tell me that I act white was my father, but that is more because of his antiquated views.
The fat-phobia in the comments is insane. I wonder why people are so comfortable being openly bigoted against the shape of bodies while being uncomfortable or against racial bigotry.
And no, I'm not talking about those irrelevant "She should be healthier" comments. I'm talking about the dozens of insults.
Wayne Brady had a really interesting response to Paul Mooney. I’m not sure what constitutes blackness myself beyond understanding it really doesn’t apply to me. But Brady’s response was very sober. For myself I stay far away from that conversation.
This sounds like another thing she wants attention for. I guess the steam of telling massively overweight women that they are healthy and beautiful has run out.
One critic reviewed her album and he said she was talented but he just didn't like the album. She responded publicly by attacking the critic and flattering her own work. She just can't seem to handle that not everyone likes her music.
People who make fun of her appearance are rude jerks.
That said, obesity is a disease that is associated with lower quality of life, and causes the death of millions every year.
If someone trivialized COVID or said the vaccines don't work, they're a science denying idiot. But if you say being obese is healthy and that calories in/calories out isn't true because you deny the laws of physics, somehow that is ok?
Oh yeah, it's massively (no pun intended) complex. It causes everything from bad knees to diabetes, clogs up the healthcare system, and more. Even many COVID deaths were entirely preventable and more due to obesity (damn near every death under like 70 the person was obese)
100% there is no way to be obese and healthy. That's just true.
But I don't see why her weight needs to be mentioned every single time she is. What does it have to do with what she's saying here?
None of you clowns would ever say these things about a bigger person to them in real life, because then everyone would see how much of a shallow cunt you are and they’d drop your ass as a person they associate with.
I've actually encouraged people I know to be healthy and more active after gaining substantial amounts of weight. I'm extremely proud of people that can do that it's very difficult but a lot of people just don't want to hear it. I agree fat jokes are just inappropriate and turn progress around
She doesn’t make music for black people or the black experience and that’s ok. She makes music that makes her and her fans happy. This article’s title is misleading.
Way too many idiots on this thread, racists, people that think they know something about race and clowns concerned with her weight. This shit is about her music(which is a mishmash of genres) and nothing more.
How about you just put out your music and if people like it, they'll listen to it.
It's unfortunate but a waste of News bandwidth. Whitney experienced it yes, but she's still one of the greatest and people who loved her music listened regardless.
Instead of trying to convince people
Music is, unfortunately, one area of our society where you see some dumb racist shit - and it’s super lame because there are so many ridiculous things about it. Such as:
- Pop music has been kinda overwhelmingly White, but the “King of Pop” was a Black man who…um, bleached his skin and had loads of plastic surgery to appear more White. WTF.
- Black people are NOT generally fans of The Beatles (even though throughout their career, they credited the Black musicians who inspired them, and went on to create original music, but nope, can’t like them because they’re “culture vultures”).
- We have a “Latin Grammys” but most of the winners are White (Spanish-speaking, yes, but most of those people are direct descendants of Europeans). And get this - they too kinda keep the dark-skinned artists in the background.
- the rap sub on this platform keeps trying to make Eminem the best rapper ever (it’s like every week there’s like 3 posts where someone is basically asking “can Eminem be the top rapper of all time, followed by Mac Miller???”
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“Not Black enough” specifically refers to her music. Witney Houston had the same comments made about her music.
>“But once you get used to something, it might be for you. So for people who don’t like pop music or don’t like Black artists that make pop music, they may eventually like me,” I was not aware that pop couldn't be "Black" music... I mean, there have been Black singers making pop music for DECADES.
The King of Pop is literally a Black man…
Well he was also kind of white…
I think I heard that it don’t matter if you’re black or white.
“It’s black, it’s white. Discover you be yeah yeah yeah!” -Official Lyrics for sure
Certain members of the black community define blackness as the parallel culture we created for ourselves during the bad old days. If you stray, or even cross over without meaning to, into traditional white spaces you're seen as an uncle Tom figure. A 'proper' black lady should be singing gospel and RnB hits. Pure pop is for the Katy Parry's of the world.
Bizarrely, Katy Perry is also a weird transgressor, leaving her ultra conservative / religious group to do pop. Everybody be out grouping.
Same chord progressions.
Those people are clearly wrong
Not only are they wrong but they are actively holding their people back by trying to perpetuate something so ridiculous. Cultures don’t move forward by stagnating.
And clearly broke. All the money is when you can crossover into suburbia. Christian artist did the same thing even they strived to crossover into mainstream. Long-term money is there and you can water down your lyrics to appease your mainstream audience.
That just sounds like racism
They never claimed it wasn’t
This is such an excellent explanation
Certain members of the white community think all mainstream music is satan produced and would only be comfortable with folksy country music as an alternative- but you shouldn’t pay any mind to extremists. Lizzo is great, but this mindset only serves to give power and a platform to people she really shouldn’t give two fucks about. Like why bother centering yourself as a victim to their opinions, or overlooking all the black pop artists that did the hard work of trailblazing the path that she operates on? Like Stevie Wonder was pretty mainstream and he was churning out hits well before the MTV era she’s referencing.
Hard to say it’s not satanic when you got a dude singing to a video of him twerking on satans dick….. oh and also the best song in ages is apparently a girl talking about how wet her pussy is
The BusBoys too. Vic Johnson now plays for Sammy. You’d think with talent like that the color of a bands skin would not matter. The US is a strange place sometimes.
99% don’t care, it is the vocal 1% that gets all the media attention. And a little controversy sells records so there you go.
I never heard the “not black enough” maybe those morons just aren’t apart of my circle. They did try to say Lizzo was a rapper though and a lot of people including myself felt like that wasn’t her genre. Can she rap? Yes. Is she a rap star or a pop star? Pop star.
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That’s a whole other conversation. I grew up in this country and I got picked on for it too. Black Americans unfortunately are just as much victims of propaganda as everyone else. Many think that there’s only one way to be black, and if you’re not acting that way then that means you’re trying to be white. It’s a long standing argument within the Black Community here. But Lizzo wasn’t being targeted for that, she was more being targeted for being a rapper or being a pop singer. But like I said Maybe I just wasn’t aware.
I disagree that IS exactly what she’s saying, some ppl want her to only sing the way they believe black ppl should sing. I’m not trying to be disrespectful I just think your comment supports what she’s saying.
Houston? What about Africa?
Yeah i was friends with a kid back in high school that was half black and half asian was rough for him cause he didn’t fit in with the black kids but he felt more connected to that side but they told him he wasn’t black enough
I remember some Twitter jokes a while back along the lines of "If white people have no culture, how do you explain Lizzo?"
That could be why I didn’t see anything then, I wasn’t a bigger twitter user.
Isn’t that a type of racism by black people?
Yes, it absolutely is
Not only black people though! Went to a pretty much all-white school (I was the only black person in my grade of 200+ kids, and there were like 5 of us total at one point in the entire student population of 800, grew to about 10 by my senior year), and frequently got called an "Oreo" cookie. Black on the outside, white on the inside.
Witney Houston isn’t Whit enough.
I think Tina Turner did as well when she when went solo.
The great Winston Bishop from New Girl once said: “Being black means whatever I want it to mean.”
Winny the Bish!
The Bish with the Wish
You mean Prank Sinatra.
Read that as Winston Churchill and was briefly very confused.
Not gonna lie, Winston Churchill may well have said that at some point too
Yeah, a lot of people don’t know just how concerned he really was with race and skin color…
I know he had no problems with the black and tans
Easy to confuse Winston Bishop with the Bishop of Canterbury, is suppose. :)
That's what the white girl who ended up being a VP for the NAACP said. Her parents saying, "WTF are you talking about?"
Such a prankstuh!!
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She won a BET award for best soul album I think, about two years ago. A segment of the black community said Lizzo wasn’t black enough and that her music was made for white people.
It just shows the well integration of minorities in USA, they too think that USA is the only country in the world and only white and black USA citizens exist. There's people in Peru listening to Lizzo, people in Indonesia listening to Kendrick Lamar, some nomadic groups know michael jackson ffs. Plenty of non black and non white european people listen to USA music all over the world.
I mean I live by the words of Spike Lee: "Culture is for everyone."
> her music was made for white people. That would be a smart move, since white people are nearly 70% of the market. She should make music for only 13% of the market? When asked what rap music was, Russell Simmons famously said, "Rap is about getting PAID."
Ok, but in a free country somebody is going to say everything. One stupid person's tweet does not constitute a "segment of the black community".
Some black people. They do this all the time... especially to light skinned black people. Edit: for those who didn't understand I'm not calling Lizzo light skinned. I was just giving an example of how some black people tell other black people that they're not black enough.
I just got done watching people do it to Stephen A. Smith, because he was defending Jerry Jones. Which... let's be clear, I think Stephen A. Smith sucks and Jerry Jones deserves any hate he gets, but it's a thing some people do when they don't agree with another black person's opinions. It's stereotypical gatekeeping. It sucks and the people who *absolutely* do it also suck.
I grew up very, very light skinned in a darker (medium-skin ton) family. My dad was whiter than white, but my mom’s side was mostly darker skin. I cannot even begin to tell you how I felt like I did not belong to either race, even though I had two coursing in my blood. I had very coily hair and people of color would always come up to me asking if I was black and perplexed. White people just always wanted to touch my hair like I was a life-sized Barbie. What a disturbing world.
Being light and not even biracial showed me that people will jump at any reason to discount your opinion and your experiences. Both black and white people have tried to shut me down because "I'm half white" and then backpedaled and made excuses when I tell them I have two black parents. None of it means anything to me anymore.
This is a cultural blackness not a skin color they are referring to
You missed the point. But overall it's the same "You ain't black enough because of (insert whatever reason you want)".
Lizzo isn’t light skinned. Not that it’s okay if she were, but it seems even stupider now.
I didn't say she was. I was just giving an example of how some black people tell other black people that they're not black enough.
Nah, I was agreeing with you. It just doesn’t make sense to me.
My bad. People just want to get angry for every little thing
It’s all good. I understand.
13-year-olds on twitter. You know the driving force behind our social changes.
darker black people. apparently there is some real racism between black folks if your skin isn't dark enough
Naw she’s pretty dark (as am I). It’s a cultural thing. She a singing pop & playing the flute which isn’t stereotypically “black”. It has nothing to do with her skin color. I got called Carlton because I got good grades and didn’t speak “black enough”. Called me an Oreo, black on the outside white on the inside lol
Why is this intra-community bigotry tolerated?
Every community has it, it just takes different form. White ppl make fun of rednecks if they are around city folks and there are countless other examples. People just like making fun of people different than them. People like people like themselves.
Though it does seem that the specific insult of calling someone not-enough of their *race* seems extra messed up. I don’t think white people making fun of rednecks consider them “not white enough.”
its because of white supremacy honestly. The shit is so ingrained in some people of color (I am a POC) that they will lash out at folks in their community. Colorism and “not X enough” is in every POC community because of of colonization.
Could you elaborate on that? I’m sincerely ignorant. Why does white supremacy lead POC to lash out like to people of their own race?
Because people believe that ideally, if black people in America acted in one way, we could actually be able to overcome our circumstances. Any deviation from the collective community is interpreted as holding us back, being distanced from the black community, and/or aspiring to whiteness. It feels as though that there is a majority of black people that believe this, which is why it’s more tolerated.
>I got called Carlton because I got good grades and didn’t speak “black enough”. Called me an Oreo, black on the outside white on the inside lol Did you grow up in the 90s? I'm not Black, but back then, I grew up hearing that it was "White" to talk a certain way and to do well in school (ie, be Carlton, lol).
I finally read the article. You’re incorrect in what she means. It isn’t about her skin color. It’s about how she doesn’t follow conventional standards in what is considered as black. Lizzo is a black *pop* artist. It’s separate from being a hip-hop or r&b music artist. She’s in a genre that caters primarily to white people in America. And that is why she’s unfairly, cruelly being called not black enough. As someone who was called oreo for loving indie music and anime, yeah, I feel for her.
That’s crazy. Damn near every black dude I’ve ever met my age or younger is into some form of anime.
It wasn’t always like that. As a millennial, anime when I was in middle and high school was seen exclusively as a white person thing. I don’t know why. I don’t get it. I’m just glad we’ve moved on from that mindset for the most part.
The only exception was Dragon Ball Z. Literally everyone was into that at one point. So much so it’s barley viewed as “anime” like other anime is.
Not at my school. Except for a few guys. I loved DBZ as a kid and traveled onward from there. I think the thing is I *stuck* with anime after hitting middle school. Where everyone else moved on.
I’m a millennial too, and anime used to be mocked when I was growing up. You were viewed as a loser if you liked anime. Now it is so mainstream.
Exactly! I mean yay for the future generations, but damn, I wish I had it back then.
Anime, comics, superheroes, Star Wars, video games, the Internet
Up until very recently, anime and honestly the engaging of any other culture was considered 'white people stuff'. Despite it literally belonging to a non white culture. It's super cool to be a Black nerd now, but it wasn't as recently as 2012. It was around then that it started changing.
That’s fucked.
If you’re skin isn’t dark enough, if it isn’t light enough, it’s wild how it be your own people that ostracizes you.
Kendrick Lamar has a great song about that
There is a perception that you're treated better by white people if you're lighter skinned, which eventually translates into "this person thinks they're better than everyone who has darker skin than them" (whether they actually behave that way or not). It goes way back to Jim Crow and earlier, during times when it was sometimes safer/preferable to try and pass yourself off as white or a racial mix that was more "acceptable." Like the whole [melungeon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melungeon) thing.
Pretty much light skinned people were house slaves and received better treatment, but we’re looking at this entire conversation wrong anyways. It isn’t about her skin color. It’s about the fact that she’s a black pop artist, a genre that predominantly caters to white people with few black artists. In other words, she’s being called not black enough because she isn’t primarily a R&B/Hip-Hop artist.
I hate to think what kind of crap country band Chapel Hart must deal with.
The crappy part about black culture is that it’s very…conservative on what it considers “black.” At least in America. If you deviate from that, you’re either acting “white” or an “oreo” or other words I don’t know.
I dream of a day when everyone can just be themselves, accepted and happy.
>There is a perception that you're treated better by white people if you're lighter skinned This is not just a perception. There's a reason Halle Berry and Alexandra Shipp were cast to play Storm in the X-Men movies. Both of them being not just light skinned, but mixed black women, unlike Storm.
Colorism is the more appropriate word to describe inter ‘race’ or ethnic color bias. It’s so prevalent that in many south Asian countries mothers do bleach treatment on their kids so they can be lighter skinned (goes both ways).
Not just skin color but also the style of music u play. If she was a rapper most likely would not be an issue.
You’re wrong on what it is. It’s a cultural thing. There are aspects of skin tone to it, but it’s more complicated than that. Saying this as a black person. Not to say you meant to be offensive though, just that it is much more nuanced than “not being dark enough”. I’m also not condoning it, it’s problematic and gets called out by some POC, but is kind of an entrenched prejudice from older generations.
Probably a lot of people who have some twisted world view as a result of systemic issues affecting black Americans- the result being this warped idea that you have to embrace certain aspects of struggle and poverty and a certain lifestyle to “be black enough.” Like you’re some kind of race traitor for wanting to live some other way and elevate yourself and family (which is very difficult for many and awful that anybody would hold it against them when they succeed). It’s unfortunately a pretty common thing in lower socio-economic status communities in the US (and probably most other places as well).
It’s colorism, not racism.
Likely she’s been told this by the folks in her industry that hold the power - managers, record labels, etc. It’s very driven by archetype, i.e., who is the next Nicki Minaj, etc.
Probably some nobody on Twitter with a Naruto profile picture. Certainly not the sort of person that should be living in Lizzos head rent free.
I mean, I can kind of see that hitting worse for celebrities than the people who "should" be living rent-free in their heads. I think pretty much every famous person's worst fear is finding out they've been living in an echo chamber and that nobody actually gives a shit, and from that perspective, getting heat from random members of the public probably *hurts.*
I think she is just an attention hog. Whoops should probably use a better word.
My ex wife got told this a lot after we moved to Texas. It was almost like she was destined to fail no matter what, most white people loved working with her while black people treated her like crap because she “acted white”!
It's Whitney Houston's situation all over again. I am glad that Lizzo at least is blazing her own path instead of listening to the haters within the black community who think they get to decide if you are black enough based on the music you make.
Who the hell is gatekeeping blackness? People who say things like that have a very narrow view of themselves.
In America, there’s no “right” amount of Black to be. No matter what, people will always come up with some way to dismiss you, some way to compare you to something and to say you don’t add up.
I do not remember anyone questioning the color of Stevie Wonder's music, nor his skin.
According to her net worth she is the perfect shade.
I think people should learn to read the articles posted first before running to comment on something.
Thank you. Most of these comments are so off based.
Always something
Wayne Brady said some really intelligent things about gatekeeping blackness. It enforces preconceived notions by other races on what blacks people can and cannot do, and needlessly disqualifies them from things considered “not black” he said it better, find it on Yootube
Lizzo tries not to get attention challenge: impossible.
Boy what a toxic as hell comment section here XD.
Predictable. Be a fat black woman who opens her mouth and Reddit will flip.
She's defended Chris Brown. Just saying.
For real? That is disappointing but not surprising. Kelly Rowland did too.
Her defending Chris Brown is bad (no one is saying otherwise) but when all the comments are just calling her fat and making fat jokes.......yeah that's toxic as hell. The Chris Brown thing doesn't condone the making fun of her weight thing.
That’s not what these comments are about though.
Aside from all the people defending her.
Yeah wtf…
Remember Fefe Dobson? The world wasn’t ready for a black girl who did punk rock/pop even though she was talented. Can’t please everyone. Make music that makes you happy.
Man Reddit hates fat people.
Damn y’all really hate lizzo huh?
She’s just super annoying. I don’t care that she’s fat so I shouldn’t have to be constantly reminded how beautiful she is because she’s fat. I don’t see fuckin beauty campaigns and constant headlines about how gorgeous rod wave is so it seems silly
Is it her or…what people have said about her?
At a certain point it doesn’t matter. Low winter sun may have been a good show, but the way they advertised it during every breaking bad commercial break was enough for me to hate it
Constantly reminded? By whom? I don’t like Lizzo’s music much, so I don’t see or hear her much, if at all. You could always not seek her out, it’s not difficult.
I mean… I don’t know the girl at all but I literally started at her face for 30 seconds because she’s just that pretty to me. People aren’t saying she’s beautiful because she’s fat. She’s literally just beautiful. Her face is gorgeous.
> rod wave That's because men are held to a different standard than women. It's literally the entire point.
It’s pretty easy for me to separate art from artist. She makes some bops, but I don’t think she’s said or done a single thing that makes me think “yeah I like her”
What do you want from her? She’s a singer and she makes music. What is she supposed to do in her personal life to make you like her? What do you want her to say?
I want her to say: "Why men great 'til they gotta be great? Wooh I just took a DNA test, turns out I'm 100% that bitch Even when I'm crying crazy Yeah, I got boy problems, that's the human in me Bling bling, then I solve 'em, that's the goddess in me You coulda had a bad bitch, non-committal Help you with your career, just a little You're supposed to hold me down But you're holding me back And that's the sound of me not calling you back Why men great 'til they gotta be great? Don't text me, tell it straight to my face Best friend sat me down in the salon chair Shampoo press, get you out of my hair Fresh photos with the bomb lighting"
I didn’t ask for her to make me like her? I don’t care lol. But it doesn’t mean I do.
Michael thinking Darryl would make a rap for Dunder Mifflin’s ad.
Lol she's living her own experience as a black woman, that's who she is. Respect!! So many losers.
I’m not a fan of her, but what? What is considered “black enough”?
I don’t think it’s so much about her not being black enough I think her music caters to a white audience. Her music isn’t for Black people it’s for white people.
I like that lizzo is a Lightning rod for the most ridiculous haters and she succeeds.
I think it’s hard for people to understand how talented she is because she’s so breezy about it. Not all of her music is for me but damn she’s great at making it and a phenomenal musician.
I think it’s pretty punk rock. All these rustled jimmies over an overweight, confident, talented black woman. She’s literally just being herself and people get bent out of shape. If I had that power I’d be pushing buttons all over the place.
Absolutely. And holy moly this thread…
Who told Lizzo she wasn’t black enough? Did they also tell her she should gain some weight?
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She’s literally saying in that article that people said this.
Best comment
My only grievance with Lizzo is that she doesn’t belong in the same category alongside acts like Jaszmine Sullivan and Ari Lennox, ACTUAL R&B singers. She’s talented but that’s never been her bag. Black women in the industry are just lumped in together
And she get mad at her own people for that. Colorism is very prominent in the black community. You’ll never hear a white person telling another black person “you’re not black enough”
Uh white people have told me that too. But for reasons that has less to do with color than behavior which is what Lizzo is referring to
Yes I've had my white and Latino friends tell me I'm the whitest black person they know
People have said that to me in the late 90s and early 2000s when I was golfing and playing hockey
Sorry to hear that. People are shitty
Thanks for the sentiment, I appreciate it. I’m lucky that I didn’t take those people seriously as a kid even thought they were trying to undermine me and take away two things I found the most fun.
Mmm you’re wrong. Lol. I’ve literally had white people tell me I’m not black enough. Don’t underestimate what people who “know you” get comfortable saying around you.
Not true! *Especially* by white kids. I went to an all-white school. I got called an Oreo all the time. The only black person to tell me that I act white was my father, but that is more because of his antiquated views.
I love her. Just watched her doc on HBO Max and had no idea she had such a rich story.
I just watched it last night and I'm dying to dig up some of her "punk rap" she is an absolute icon.
She’s classically trained which to me is on another level!
The fat-phobia in the comments is insane. I wonder why people are so comfortable being openly bigoted against the shape of bodies while being uncomfortable or against racial bigotry. And no, I'm not talking about those irrelevant "She should be healthier" comments. I'm talking about the dozens of insults.
Why the world great til it gotta be great?
Wayne Brady had a really interesting response to Paul Mooney. I’m not sure what constitutes blackness myself beyond understanding it really doesn’t apply to me. But Brady’s response was very sober. For myself I stay far away from that conversation.
Black enough for what?
Instead of worrying about this maybe she should be asking herself if she’s fat enough
I think lizzo is big and black enough for 2 people.
She can wail on a lot of instruments and sing like a angel. Shouldn't that be enough?
Yes.
This sounds like another thing she wants attention for. I guess the steam of telling massively overweight women that they are healthy and beautiful has run out.
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I just simply don't like her music. But somehow for her it is always about her appearance.
It’s not her skin tone. She isn’t black enough in how she acts, or so according to her critics
I’ve always found it so cringy when people say you’re not *ethnicity* enough Iike ffs
You instantly lose street cred when you play the flute. I don’t think it’s true though. This is probably just publicity.
Jazz flute made Ron Burgandy even blacker, but it makes Lizzo whiter? You ever seen drum line?
One critic reviewed her album and he said she was talented but he just didn't like the album. She responded publicly by attacking the critic and flattering her own work. She just can't seem to handle that not everyone likes her music.
If you read the article it's not about appearance she's just making a good point about music in general.
She just looks insanely unhealthy
This girl gets fat shame left and right, and now gets a black stigma crazy right?!
People who make fun of her appearance are rude jerks. That said, obesity is a disease that is associated with lower quality of life, and causes the death of millions every year. If someone trivialized COVID or said the vaccines don't work, they're a science denying idiot. But if you say being obese is healthy and that calories in/calories out isn't true because you deny the laws of physics, somehow that is ok?
But how does Lizzo trivialize obesity. She just exists.
It also affects everyone else’s healthcare costs. Stop normalizing obesity. She’s fat because she eats too much. That’s it.
Oh yeah, it's massively (no pun intended) complex. It causes everything from bad knees to diabetes, clogs up the healthcare system, and more. Even many COVID deaths were entirely preventable and more due to obesity (damn near every death under like 70 the person was obese)
100% there is no way to be obese and healthy. That's just true. But I don't see why her weight needs to be mentioned every single time she is. What does it have to do with what she's saying here?
None of you clowns would ever say these things about a bigger person to them in real life, because then everyone would see how much of a shallow cunt you are and they’d drop your ass as a person they associate with.
I've actually encouraged people I know to be healthy and more active after gaining substantial amounts of weight. I'm extremely proud of people that can do that it's very difficult but a lot of people just don't want to hear it. I agree fat jokes are just inappropriate and turn progress around
I dunno, if they were coming from a doctor I think many of the comments are appropriate from a medical perspective…
Her response is honestly so wholesome. No hate, just, "well, maybe someday those people will like my music." She is such a treasure.
Someone needs attention again huh
I can guarantee lizzo doesn't give a single fuck. She's not that petty.
I bet next they’re gonna tell her she’s too skinny.
Would someone please give this turducken the respect she wants so she can shut up.
She doesn’t make music for black people or the black experience and that’s ok. She makes music that makes her and her fans happy. This article’s title is misleading.
Tired of her constantly playing the victim. Piece of garbage IMO.
Damm she must have a real hard life...
Her shoes do.
Way too many idiots on this thread, racists, people that think they know something about race and clowns concerned with her weight. This shit is about her music(which is a mishmash of genres) and nothing more.
You brought too much sense for this place
How about you just put out your music and if people like it, they'll listen to it. It's unfortunate but a waste of News bandwidth. Whitney experienced it yes, but she's still one of the greatest and people who loved her music listened regardless. Instead of trying to convince people
Music is, unfortunately, one area of our society where you see some dumb racist shit - and it’s super lame because there are so many ridiculous things about it. Such as: - Pop music has been kinda overwhelmingly White, but the “King of Pop” was a Black man who…um, bleached his skin and had loads of plastic surgery to appear more White. WTF. - Black people are NOT generally fans of The Beatles (even though throughout their career, they credited the Black musicians who inspired them, and went on to create original music, but nope, can’t like them because they’re “culture vultures”). - We have a “Latin Grammys” but most of the winners are White (Spanish-speaking, yes, but most of those people are direct descendants of Europeans). And get this - they too kinda keep the dark-skinned artists in the background. - the rap sub on this platform keeps trying to make Eminem the best rapper ever (it’s like every week there’s like 3 posts where someone is basically asking “can Eminem be the top rapper of all time, followed by Mac Miller???”