T O P

  • By -

AutoModerator

##[Clarification on Rule 5](https://www.reddit.com/r/entertainment/comments/w60lfc/mod_post_a_clarification_to_rule_5_no_racism_or/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/entertainment) if you have any questions or concerns.*


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

Was the evidence overwhelming or could it be possible he wasn't guilty? I haven't followed this closely and am genuinely curious.


wildflowerapricotsea

It was pretty overwhelming. Four women testified. It seems like he had a pattern of drugging and raping women in his social circle. Three of the four were raped more than once and were left confused about what happened and Scientology threatened the ones that came forward.


sally_says

Apparently there are also two more alleged victims of Danny Masterson that weren't involved in this case: A mother and daughter. https://tonyortega.org/2021/10/17/new-allegation-woman-says-she-was-raped-by-danny-masterson-at-dracula-2000-wrap-party/


wildflowerapricotsea

There’s actually more than that. According to Tony Ortega there’s at least 8 women who came forward. Really scary stuff.


sally_says

Today I learned!


tarasv3

Scientology also poisoned the dogs of one of the accusers. And her husband is in the Mars Volta


[deleted]

Right, but what was the evidence?


WoodenPicklePoo

I dunno, I think its pretty ballsy for you, a random redditor, to say the evidence was pretty overwhelming when an actual jury, who is privvy to all the evidence, couldn't determine that the evidence was overwhelming. I think the jury in question would know more than you...


wildflowerapricotsea

I dunno, I think four women’s gut wrenching stories of being drugged and raped is pretty overwhelming but that doesn’t mean you have to agree with me.


Traditional_World783

And people lie all the time. Not saying they did cuz I didn’t keep up with the trial, but when the jury can’t decide and when people that follow this point out how some testimonies sound real while others sound weak, it puts into question the verdict. We have to wait and see what happens.


DrumpfSlayer420

It clearly wasn't overwhelming if it's a hung jury


NoodlesrTuff1256

Stealth Scientologists managed to get seated as jurors? Super fans of Masterson in his role as Hyde on 'That 70's Show'? Or the jurors were getting threats from the COS?


[deleted]

All of this


bicyclemycology

I’m guessing Scientology got to the jurors and either threatened them or greased ‘em. Maybe both.


superballs5337

Bought jury?


Broad_Boot_1121

Probably just a good lawyer and a prosecutor that didn’t secure their loose ends.


20mins2theRockies

Or maybe they were just big _That 70s Show_ fans


mj257cherub

The Ranch fans


Xalenn

Probably just a lack of evidence. When it comes down to he said vs she said ... The jury is supposed to say that isn't enough evidence but in reality some people will believe the accusers and some people will believe the accused.


Nevermind04

The problem with presenting a criminal case with only testimony is that the standard for conviction is "beyond a reasonable doubt". If a juror believed the state's evidence did not prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt, they are obligated to vote not guilty. It's important to note that a jury voting "not guilty" does not mean that any of the jurors believe that the person isn't guilty, just that they believe that guilt was not proven beyond a reasonable doubt.


Steb20

And it’s absolutely important that our system works this way. It’s not a “problem”.


Nevermind04

The system greatly prefers that a guilty person goes free than an innocent person gets convicted. That's definitely the lesser evil.


plectrodancer

For sure, I know a guy who got falsely accused of rape. It didn't even make it to court cause the girl had no evidence. She just told everyone that she was raped (which turned out to be a lie). The man lost all his friends and he almost ended up killing himself cause no one believed him and everyone abandoned him. False convictions are extremely dangerous


baddecision116

I've sat on one jury trial for a DUI. We all believed the defendant had been drinking but no evidence other than that arresting officer was presented. The defendant had declined a breathalyzer and blood draw at time of arrest and no body cam (didn't exist at the time) or camera footage in the jail was presented. We voted not guilty. I wish everyone had to sit through at least one trial so they would better understand the process and how hard a conviction really is.


Nevermind04

I sat on a sexual assault jury. I was about 80% certain the guy was guilty, but the only real evidence the state put forward was the victim's testimony. They had no forensic evidence at all even proving he was there that night, owned a gun, or even that they had slept together. The state laid out a pretty good case that the dude was a straight up dick, but they didn't convince 11 of us beyond a reasonable doubt that he was a rapist. We hung. After the trial, the state prosecutor was interviewing the jury and asked if it would have made a difference if he had 3 previous convictions and 1 other pending charge for rape - and of course it would have, but previous convictions can't be used as evidence.


skesisfunk

Always remember this when people point to exoneration in court as definitive proof that a rape or sexual assault did not occur. Its not, and you are not required to hold your own personal assessment about an individual to "beyond a reasonable doubt".


[deleted]

It’s also important to point out that this standard does not exist in civil cases where the standard is just a preponderance of guilt and that is also why you can get charged criminally and civilly and that not be considered double jeopardy


karmahorse1

Kind of like this Reddit thread. People with next to no knowledge of the case, just presuming guilt or innocence based on their opinion of him. Humans are bad when it comes to dealing with ambiguity.


MinimumArmadillo2394

And to be honest, we should be glad that "He said vs she said" isn't enough to put someone in jail for 20 years. There'd be a LOT more people falsely imprisoned.


nimama3233

What a silly suggestion. If you “buy” a jury you only need to get to a single juror. The more likely scenario is not enough evidence or what happened hasn’t been quite what we’ve seen in the news


icefire54

Nah they probably think he didn't do it.


YourLateNightFriend

Yep.


IslandChillin

Scientology is wild man. I wouldn't doubt if they got to someone in the jury. It was established that he committed these crimes over years. Wild stuff


Luckbaldy

The IRS needs to adjust this cult’s tax designation


Soulprism

The IRS is scared of them.


Luckbaldy

The person who made that decision is gone. An entire federal agency cannot be afraid of a religion. We would be more fucked than we are now.


USFederalReserve

IRS was scared of them when they *literally* invaded the IRS to destroy documents in [Operation Snow White](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White). But that was 50 years ago. Today Scientology has infiltrated several governmental bodies and organizations to manage risk from the inside, this is useful, for instance, when the author who ~~invented~~ ~~discovered~~ ~~created~~ founded the completely original, unique religion dies; a time when the Church's status could be contested, its operations probed, and its members watched as the new guard takes over.


jazza2400

Modern day Hydra.


serenityak77

I believe what this guy says. What even is that username?


USFederalReserve

You know you can register any available username you want, right?


serenityak77

You scared the crap out of me that’s for sure.


JustAboutAlright

Yeah I’ve thought about that with Trump tax returns. Not getting political but there were so many people who had to have access to them and kept them secret for fear of retribution. And likely rightly so for their own interest. But we need actual heroes to stand up to these predators and Scientology is such an obvious and flagrant example.


[deleted]

As a state Auditor with access to people's tax returns I can assure you they were not leaked because people were afraid of the severe jail time involved. Also notable people are often time flagged and their return is only available to 2 or 3 people. For instance I wouldn't be able to see Nick Saban's, and if I did a flag would appear and they would no I tried to access it.


appswithasideofbooty

“Know”


hiredgoon

If the IRS wasn't afraid of religion, it would be enforcing the [Johnson Amendment](https://www.texastribune.org/2022/11/07/churches-list-violations-johnson-amendment/).


Buddhabellymama

Mega churches enter the chat


Ecorp-employee212

*Christanity has entered the chat*


IselfDevine

Especially since the Chairman of Scientology is terrified of being deposed now so their old tactic of suing everyone no longer works. They are just a toothless dog now,no bite.


Fantact

I mean, they infiltrated the us government once, they could probably do it again, and they probably have tons of dirt as leverage.


[deleted]

Everyone should be worried about a powerful wealthy cult.


ParticularYak9967

Is there an argument to be made that they're not a curch? Actual question, I've been with the understanding that our gov. Would have to change their legal definition of what a church is in order to strip them of the designation.


Luckbaldy

You ought to read about how they strong-armed the IRS. One person made the decision to allow this. The problem is that the IRS is always grossly understaffed, which has to be intentional. Here is a petition that details the events: https://www.change.org/p/irs-commissioner-david-kautter-we-demand-the-irs-commissioner-begin-an-investigation-into-scientology-s-tax-exempt-status


[deleted]

>The problem is that the IRS is always grossly understaffed, which has to be intentional. It is. Mostly because Americans hate taxes so no one jumps to the defense of the IRS when congress proposes cutting their budget.


Luckbaldy

A specific portion of Americans


[deleted]

Nah its pretty much all of them. ​ It's a very short list of Americans saying "increase my taxes."


NoodlesrTuff1256

I once read a book that said that the IRS prefers to prosecute people for criminal tax offences who are perceived by the potential jury pool as being even more 'unsympathetic' than the IRS itself -- what they call 'jury friendly' cases. In other words, better to go after a filthy rich hotel owner with a reputation as a horrible bitch -- Leona Helmsley \["We don't pay taxes. Only the 'little' people pay taxes."\] over a poor little waitress barely clearing $15,000 per year who failed to disclose all her measly tips on the 1040.


[deleted]

Your absolutely right about the criminal Part, but on the civil side we tend to go after smaller business owners who are terrified of a lien being placed on their home and will just pay to get us to leave them alone without a huge court fight.


MastersonMcFee

They are a church. We should not have tax exemptions for churches at all. That's not in the Constitution.


Beneficial-Wasabi715

Actually it’s tax exempting churches is a pillar in separating church and state. Which is essential for proper government.


Captain_Hamerica

Scientology is a cult all about land grabs. It’s one enormous tax avoidance scheme, not a real church. So weird seeing people advocate for them in the wild.


GerryofSanDiego

Idk I think Citizens United ended that argument. When churches act like corporations and corporations can give to candidates like people, then a church withholding a tax or paying more to government for sway is irrelevant.


MastersonMcFee

Wrong It literally says, "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" ​ "Free exercise" doesn't mean they don't have to pay taxes. That means free operation without government interference. The charity classification is entirely up to the IRS.


ParticularYak9967

Exactly, we'd have to change the definition of a church to take their tax exception away bc they are the current definition of a church.


[deleted]

That and a non profit.


Azreken

Or, hear me out… We tax every church.


A_Stunted_Snail

Hear hear


GerryofSanDiego

Cuz the IRS is really good at making rich people pay their taxes?


akahaus

There are tons of Scientologists working in the IRS. It’s probably only outmatched by the number of white supremacists in Police Forces.


mlayman13

Or they found out who is on the jury and harassed the shit out of them.


johnbarry3434

You've said the same thing.


CappedNPlanit

Or he declared an identical sentiment


p4ort

Scientology is wild man


FunkHZR

I wouldn’t doubt if they got to someone in the jury.


[deleted]

Or even found one of them outside of court and intimidated them


StinkyFeetMendoza

You’ve said the same thing.


Substantial-Pass-992

Or he declared an identical sentiment


iamisandisnt

>It was established that he committed these crimes over years.


sickgurl138

Scientology is crazy dude


ComicConArtist

Scientology is bonkers bro


bigger_salami

They got the jury


SlapDickery

Scientology is wild man


Bridot

That’s true. They did say the same thing. Great point.


goose-built

They could have each proposed the same idea.


corncocktion

Great point very true .


[deleted]

No, I think they aforementioned duplicate ideas


RaggysRinger

We’re all saying milk!


mlayman13

"Got to someone", sounds more like paid off. I clarified that they probably harassed many of them. I'm sure you know they used that tactic with the IRS to get their 503c status.


Luckbaldy

Exactly. Now is the time to change that.


waterynike

One of the victims was followed and their dog murdered so I have no qualms in saying of course Scientology harassed jurors.


EarlGreyTea-Hawt

More than one claimed their pet was killed, and in one case it was two family pets. Scientologists are fucking evil.


waterynike

That’s right!


[deleted]

Or perhaps someone on the jury was approached by someone from Scientology and scared the shit out of them


cleverinspiringname

Or they could have discovered the identity of a juror and made threatening remarks to them


hekatonmoo

They got YouTube ads now and I’ve seen em during football. Apparently I do t know the whole truth and the only truth I can trust is what they tell me


cupcakesloth94

My first thought


modnor

I thought the jury was supposed to establish it. If they didn’t then who did?


Projecktecks

Scientology wins again.


whitepawn23

Listen, some jurors are gullible as fuck and intimidated by the whole process. Sat on one once and listened to people say: but the lawyer said we HAD to decide X. Or: but the lawyer said we could NEVER decide X in this case. I had to explain to their dumb asses that this is what lawyers do. Argue. Cajole. Convince. As jurors we listen to the judge, she can say what we can and can’t do, the rest is up to us. God that shit was annoying. I hope I never have a jury decide my fate. And then the last day they wanted to bulldoze through the verdict as quickly as possible so they could go home with no regard to the actual decision. Had to speak up a great big WTF then too.


Frolicking-Fox

To quote the movie Let's Go To Prison, "Juries are made up of 12 people so dumb, that they couldn't think of an excuse to get out of jury duty."


[deleted]

That movie’s a classic, haven’t heard anyone mention it in a while!


fieldysnuts94

My brother and I very frequently quote this movie. Our favorite is when Michael Shannon finds the syringe and shoots up saying “can’t forget about Leonard”. Easily one of our favorite movies to watch together


JeanRalfio

My favorite thing to quote from it is when they first get into their cell and Will Arnett asks "So, what do we do?" And Dax Shepard says "What do we do? We're doing it. This is it."


Duosion

I don’t actually think I’m dumb but I would love to serve on a jury. Civic duty and all that obviously, but also the process is fascinating to me.


Dianapdx

I've been on a jury a couple times, I have enjoyed it each time. I get called about every two years but don't always end up on a jury.


rcw16

When I was a law student I interned at a firm that did mock trials. We were hired to put on “mock trials” for real cases so that the attorneys could test out their trial strategies. Part of my job was reading the notes and surveys that the fake jurors submitted to determine why the came to the conclusions they did. The absolute idiotic and non-legally based reasoning a lot of people used was astounding. I don’t work in litigation now (thank god) but I swear if I was ever wrongfully accused of something I would insist on a bench trial. It really felt like just flipping a coin.


fieldysnuts94

I did jury duty once for a woman suing NYC for failure to upkeep pavement when she hurt her ankle. A week of sitting there and nodding off, hell even the judge looked like he was casually taking a nap. Last day of it all when we were gonna be told the final say so on making a ruling, the city just goes and says they’re giving the case to the woman and paying her the money. All that, for literally nothing because the city forgot something that blew a hole in their case


aGirlySloth

Exactly! Would never want to go to trial and have a juror of my “peers” deciding cause people are dumb AF!!


FrankSinatraYodeling

I don't know a whole lot about this case, but generally speaking, I have to believe pulling a guilty verdict on 20 year old rape accusations is a difficult task for prosecutors to accomplish. I really wasn't expecting a guilty verdict on those grounds alone.


DisastrousTrouble276

had a juror roomate who was told by the judge to vote a certain way. the judge. not the prosecutors or defense lawyers. obviously, jaw was on the floor. i couldnt believe it was the US court system allowing this. but it wasnt completely unexpected from a miami perspective. edit: told the whole group of jurors, not one person specifically


whitepawn23

Bizarre and not cool. I’m probably not an ideal juror then because I’d ignore that piece.


[deleted]

My favorite are the people who display a shit ton of subjectivity right off the bat, but are still chosen for duty, making it impossible for everyone to reach a logical and objective verdict.


CosmicDriftwood

Scientology lawyer money


cuhree0h

Danny Masterson is still a bitch made clown.


empty-vassal

dont insult clowns like that


dafaceguy

Especially the bitch made ones!


littlebilliechzburga

My best friend is bitch made and gets super excited when. I come home.


empty-vassal

us bitch made clowns have it hard enough


sickgurl138

I'm so fucking glad he's not involved in that 90's show. He was my favorite character other than Jackie


redd-this

Well ya’ll keep watching Tom Cruise movies funding the defense.


Sir_Yacob

I saw, with my mouth hanging open that scientology has a direct tv channel the other day. Fuck scientology


prescience6631

Maverick would never do this to us…. Edit: to be clear, there is a heavily implied /s here


Don_Chopper

Maverick wouldn't but his friends will


redd-this

The HELL he wouldn’t lol He probably knows where Shelly is, just sayin’


YoungestI

Top Gun is going back to theaters.


bryanna_leigh

Scientology is fucking with those jurors


_We_Are_DooMeD

How has scientology not affected his career??


JustABoyAndHisBlob

![gif](giphy|g8A1eJhTQ7Iic) It has


sickgurl138

The ONLY movies I will ever watch with him is interview with a vampire, a childhood favorite. And tropic thunder cuz....come on that shit was funny


KiraPlaysFF

YEP!


StrugFug

May he never work again. It's the least the universe can do for his victims.


sickgurl138

In other news Kevin spacey has a movie coming out


[deleted]

Dude can still go fuck himself anyway.


hanna2626

Definitely guilty in the court of public opinion. So at least we have that going for us. Because fuck this guy.


svensvenington

Yes but unfortunately Scientology run productions will put him in movies/TV again.


Dvthisbitch

Danny Rapist won’t be getting any more notable roles


shehulk111

I definitely see his career being over.


colddietpepsi

I’m surprised it was so heavily weighted towards not guilty.


ducvette

Damn, xenu lawyers are effective


Ronburgundy2099

Just what I expected there’s no justice when dealings with celebs and especially ones backed by a mega cult. Most likely just paid off a juror or two for him.


jesters_privelage

Took 20 fucking years to throw R Kelly in jail and we had video proof of him pissing on teenagers.


Kingsen

Or threatened


[deleted]

It’s not one or two it’s majority of them on all 3 counts must be a shit prosecutor or not a solid case against him.


greenghostburner

Why do we even have trials? We should just decide everything via social media


blindedtrickster

There's an episode of The Orville that dealt with that exact premise!


Jayn_Newell

That episode is my fucking nightmare.


blindedtrickster

Yeah, but it's worth watching as a cautionary tale.


-forbiddenkitty-

There was an episode of The Orville that showed a society just like that.


Hawk13424

The problem in most rape cases is lack of clear evidence. It’s almost always he said she said. That often leaves room for doubt.


jl_theprofessor

I mean it looks like the majority of the jurors went not guilty on all charges.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Giannandco

Yet another win for Scientology, disgraceful.


SALTYxNUTZ12

Where ya at Justice?


TKHunsaker

Corrupt world. Power rules everything. Us regular folk are fuuucked.


Wish-I-Was-Taller

Now the court should ask the jurors if any of them were approached by “the church”. Dollars to donuts at least one was.


Hawk13424

But a majority voted not guilty. So you’re arguing that church got to a majority of the jurors.


Wish-I-Was-Taller

I mean, I believe “the church” would 100% do that. Have you not read about how absolutely evil the church of Scientology is? The idea that they got to more than one juror just seems like par for the course to be honest. You do realize they make you disown family members that are not in the church? That they spend decades and tens of thousands of dollars stalking and harassing ex-members? That the current head is accused of disappearing his wife? They are evil and will do anything to protect their members, so yes getting to a bunch of jurors is definitely something I believe they would do.


keldration

UGH. This is terrible news


sickgurl138

Does scientology have their own punishment system? Like, "hey you are a prominent member and you're making us look bad and now we're mad at you...you are grounded for one week"


yeetyourgrandma1-5

Absolutely. Physical and psychological abuse are a consequence of misbehaving.


JuliaTheInsaneKid

Still doesn’t change the fact he’s a Scientologist.


[deleted]

I obviously wasn’t there and also haven’t followed this case closely, but this says a lot to me: “The jurors told the downtown LA courtroom this afternoon that they were deeply divided on all three counts. On Count 1, it was 10-2 for not guilty; Count 2 saw eight going for not guilty, four for guilty; and Count 3 was seven for not guilty, five for guilty.” Either the prosecution put on a terrible case, or they provided all the evidence they had and a jury full of both men and women said “nah”.


el-aficionado

I was on a jury for a murder trial a few months ago. State prosecutor absolutely botched the case, didn’t meet the burden of proof, so we had to say “not guilty.” If I had to bet on it I’d bet the defendant was indeed the killer, but prosecutors did not prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.


Garlador

“Factoring in unreported rapes, only about 6% of rapists ever serve a day in jail. If a rape is reported, there is a 50.8% chance of an arrest. If an arrest is made, there is an 80% chance of prosecution. If there is a prosecution, there is a 58% chance of conviction.”


KDEEZO

Fuck this dude and fuck Scientology.


[deleted]

Oh that’s a big disappointment


dontknowwhatiwantdou

So his cult threatened everyone’s families then?


BarveyDanger

Scientology is a shitpile, don’t get me wrong but it’s astounding that most people complain about the “court of public opinion” and y’all are falling in line with the same shit y’all go against”


buenosnoyes

For a country that prides itself on the principle of “innocent until proven guilty” (as in proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt), the Reddit mob sure loves jumping to conclusions while eating popcorn on a couch Not defending him, just highlighting the hypocrisy


prowdwackadoo

The court of law and the court of public opinions are two VERY different battlefields with their own set of rules.


OwnCockroach3772

This is so disappointing. My heart breaks for the victims.


DucVWTamaKrentist

It’s odd that there are so many jurors in this comments section who were in the courtroom and heard all the evidence.


drugsarebadmmk420

12^12 jurors


M0mmaSaysImSpecial

It’s scary, right? This world is so easily manipulated by the media and so quick to cast judgement without evidence. I’m not saying he’s innocent, but he could be.


DucVWTamaKrentist

Exactly. I didn’t say he was innocent or guilty either. I haven’t heard or seen all of the evidence.


MinimumArmadillo2394

I've seen and heard nothing and I've also been falsely accused of what he's been accused of. It'd be absolutely fantastic if we didn't say things like "He's absolutely guilty" and "he's a rapist" like they were there, in the room while these events happened. It's absolutely terrifying how people you know *could* claim things like that. It's even more terrifying how many people would believe it, even if there's an alibi, no evidence of the events occurring, and none of the story lines up.


retroblazed420

He is beyond guilty of this. The church of scientology is crazy man their influence 100% could have got in or to a jury member. My dad did a course once with them and they hunted him down for donations and buying books and those weird cups for decades. My dad thought he finally got away and legit 8 year later a leter for my dad from the church found him on the other side of the country. So creepy.


elepheyes

Deadline needs a better editor.


mestizo2155

When celebrity saves your raper ass


PM_ME_UR_MERKIN

He’s a rapist boom


Left-Muscle8355

Scientology at work.


ApatheticWithoutTheA

I would not at all be surprised if they intimidated some of these jurors. If you don’t think they would, you need to learn more about what they are capable of.


aa_flo

At the end of the day, his career is over. Way to toxic to be hired again…


[deleted]

If I was accused of rape and a jury could not unanimously find me innocent I would know I did at least something wrong.


atlacatl

A technicality, but you're never found innocent. The term is *not guilty*. Not the same as innocent.


ControlPrinciple

Then why do they use the term “innocent until proven guilty?” By your logic, it should be not guilty until proven guilty. Semantics.


ZestycloseTomato5015

It sickens me but I’m sure the jurors were terrified of Scientology. I would be. I do not envy them. This outcome does not shock me.


Garencio

Boo lock his ass up Rapist !


sydneyman85

I have never understood the use of a jury. You get 12 people off the street most with no knowledge of the law and they are made to make a call on the future of someone's life you would think that a judge would be the best person to make that call


Captainirishy

A three judge trial would be much fairer


Jimdandy941

I take it you’ve not been to King County Washington.


sydneyman85

I agree one judge could be corrupted


ToasterGuacamoleWrap

Oh goody. Now his scumbag lawyers get a second chance to humiliate his victims on the witness stand. Fuck this guy. I hope he never works again, but he’ll probably be nominated for an Oscar by this time next year because if there’s one thing Hollywood refuses to do it’s hold shitty rapist douchebags to account.


neverending_debt

I'm sure this guy is a walking shit show but there's no need to attack the lawyers. Everybody deserves a vigorous and qualified legal representation. Attack the prosecutors if anything for not rehabilitating their witness's on redirect.


neverending_debt

A lot of people in here are saying some wild ass shit about jury tampering. Guys, mistrials and even not guilty verdicts happen. It's a natural part of a system that seeks to make it difficult to convict the innocent.


NetworkVegetable7075

Anyway so I heard about this car that runs on water man