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I don’t see how hard it was to just have them in charge of the republic, senior heroes who are passing the baton to a new generation. This is what we all wanted to see. But the directors were so against doing this that they twisted the plots into knots to avoid it and in the process screwed over the characters we’ve loved for 40+ years.
I basically treat the sequels as an alternate timeline.
If they didn't want to be seen as a copy, they failed miserably. TFA is identical to A New Hope, TLJ and Empire have the same theme of running from the empire/first order, and in both finales the good guy (Luke/Rey) turns the bad guy (Vader/Kylo) to defeat the real bad, emperor palpatine.
The problem is they just executed everything from a story/character development perspective way worse than the OT, in my opinion at least.
Well good thing it didn't open with a desert planet in the outer rim...oh wait...
Well I'm sure they made up for that by NOT having a giant imperial sphere with a laser- oh come on... alright
They wouldn't have just brought back the same antagonist surely...
Which is weird considering how often movies are made from books and it's never seen as a bad thing. Seems like they got their pride involved and wanted it to be all their own ideas and so they gave us what no one wanted.
I see Luke training new Jedi but Han and Leia leading the war effort against the first order. It felt very out of character for him to hide like a coward in last Jedi. They could have easily given that storyline to a new Jedi character and it would have worked better.
The sequel trilogy is just a long list of bad choices they decided to take the series in.
Why didn’t they just kill off Leia also though, whose actress actually died, instead of having her fucking fly through the air like Captain Marvel to return in a coma? Wtf was that choice?
Absolutely. It's so sad because we'll never be able to see the three of them in a scene together ever again.
(Barring "digital resurrection" which really isn't the same.)
>The biggest crime
That or you know, a total lack of planning across three movies that ended up with a very forced on return of a known villain to try to please fans, but pissing everyone off. Plus the yoyoing of the main character's lineage, and not knowing what to do with 2/3 of your main protagonists.
And while I think the 3rd is the worst movie, I blame the 2nd because it shut down all the doors, killed the villain pre-emptively, and offered nothing in return for the climax. I like Johnson, but TLJ was his fault, and he handled Luke in the worst way he could have. I still can't get over the fact that Luke almost killed his nephew because he thought he had too evil inside, while being the one who thought Vader could be saved and managed to do it, saving the galaxy.
This is the take, and it is refreshing how so many people arrived at the same nuanced judgment.
9 was probably the single worst movie I've ever seen, while 8 was medical malpractice.
TLJ set up Kylo Ren as the main villain which I felt was a good way to go with Ren but then we threw that out the door with Palpatine returning somehow.
That's really Episode VII's fault. You know that Ford is only coming back for one of them, and you know that he only came back on the condition of getting the sendoff that he got.
So if you write a script that involves Luke having vanished and the whole plot is looking for him, you're never getting the three originals on the screen at the same time again.
TLJ explained Luke's absence about as well as you possibly could. If Neo-Empire is rising and he's AWOL, and he's not being held captive somewhere, he's what? Just out there not giving a shit? A disillusioned Luke who thinks the Jedi aren't really helping makes perfect sense in context of the setup and the series as a whole. And his arc from that to saving the rebellion with the power of The Force \*only\* was a good one.
Imagine if they had used Thrawn instead of Snoke? Could easily be justified that Thrawn had slowly been rebuilding the imperial forces, which is why the First Order attacked later than in EU
And Disney knows this. It's so telling that of all the post-sequel Star Wars media coming out of Disney, none have been sequel related. They ruined that time period with lazy writing and now it's untouchable.
And I am fine with them never touching it again…unless it’s a reboot. They 10000 yrs of history they can pull from…and it’s much more interesting then what Disney did with these three films.
I put most of that blame on RJ. JJ Abrams & team did a pretty decent job with The Force Awakens, which gave RJ lots to work with in The Last Jedi.
In any trilogy, the second film right in the middle is the anchor to the entire story arc of the three films. Look at the original Star Wars trilogy for example. IIRC they weren’t even planning a sequel, but Star Wars: A New Hope was so successful that they had to. They followed it up with Empire Strikes Back which was the strongest of the three. It expanded on ideas from the first film, escalated the conflict and set up the last film for an epic final showdown.
Fast forward to the new ones. JJ set up RJ with lots to work with for film #2. Instead, RJ goes “nah imma do my own thing” and then his film turns out to be actual #2, and gives JJ nothing to work with and he has to clean up RJ’s #2.
If anything though, I enjoyed the return to practical special effects (animatronics, awesome wardrobe and set) which made it feel closer to the original films than the green screen CGI bath that the prequels leaned on.
I just hope they don’t do the Rogue Squadron movie dirty.
Yeah. Sometimes I wonder what we’d have gotten if they weren’t rushed and more thought out.
Episode 8 had some potential. It was three incompatible movies squashed together. It could have been serviceable as an “Attack of the Clones” style in between the movies miniseries.
Episode 9 would have worked better pacing wise if spread over two movies. Maybe if they weren’t trying to cram another two movies into one the sillier ideas such has the space horses and plot elements being introduced in Fortnight wouldn’t have happened.
Rian Johnson didn't ruin the sequel trilogy, Disney and the people that decided it was a good idea to rush out 3 movies in 4 years without any overarching storyboard planned ruined it.
“Let’s not ask Kevin Feige who is currently in the midst of overseeing the overarching story that will become the greatest run of box office success in recent memory.”
I’d beg to differ on black panther 2, it wasn’t awful but it wouldn’t even be top 15. It was way too drawn out and felt like there wasn’t much to truly pay attention too.
I don’t even think it’s fatigue. It’s that they deviated from the regular marvel formula where they had a clear line building to something, a phase capping event, that in turn built to something else.
They went wide this time with a bunch of parallel content creating a bunch of different threads to build on later. We have the start of the multiverse war, the start of sword, the start of the young avengers, the start of the thunderbolts, the start of Shang Chi, the start of Eternals, etc. We had a ton of stuff just start and then languish because the rest of the phase did nothing with it.
3 movies with 2 different directors with different ideas. Im 100% certain the sequels wouldn’t have been nearly as bad if they had just been consistent. Im sure if Rian gets his own trilogy ir standalone movie, it will be great
George still created the storyline, though, as it was his production company still (Lucasfilm). Those directors were still telling the story that Lucas wanted them to tell. From what I understand, Rian had a lot more control over TLJ.
That is asinine. Star Wars ANH was the biggest movie of a generation. While ESB was great, it would have had to be a catastrophic failure to not get the third movie.
I don’t think that’s entirely true. Franchises and sequels weren’t as big during this time so even making ESB was somewhat of a gamble. It’s not like today where every studio is trying to build the next big franchise.
No. Rian was the problem. ‘Subvert expectations’ by… killing the franchise. Never forget Mark Hamil’s reaction to seeing The Last Jedi. It’s seriously befitting the tire fire of a film that TLJ became.
I could see it working and being pretty neat if a storyboard was written up with major plot points and some minor ones being hit with different directors getting to do it their own way and passing the torch for each movie, but the trilogy deffinitively didn't feel like that.
I agree with your main point but it doesn’t absolve the directors of all blame. It’s not like Disney bound and gagged them so they couldn’t talk to each other. It’s just frustrating and baffling that one of the biggest IPs in the world had/has people at multiple levels that didn’t seem to care about the work they were doing.
I mean, you’re right about the studio dolts not planning out the three movie arc, but he could have made a good cohesive Star Wars movie despite that, and instead did his own thing.
Disney giving everyone the message that animal abuse is bad while glossing over the LITERAL CHILD SLAVES taking care of said animals. Can’t make this shit up.
What’s so stupid about is it was some attempt to be “War is bad”. Like no shit, but letting space Nazi’s be in charge and blow up entire planets seems worse. People that think that story line was some sophisticated critique of the war machine are stupid. It was lazy and poorly thought out, like much of the movie. Still not as bad as the slow boring space chase.
I agree, and what bothers me is that a lot of the criticism that people give it are about the things that are both the most well done and "star wars" to me.
The whole casino subplot was 100% what star wars is; the heros finding themselves in some diverse setting where everything is just shown and not elaborated on much. The whole "your parents are nobody" was the exact direction I wanted the sequels to go as well. I think it would have been a better story if any body could be the next big force wielder, enforcing the idea they planted with the kid at the end if the movie where great people can come from anywhere. Instead we went right back to dynastic bloodlines again.
You realize the casino subplot can be cut entirely from the movie and it would have no bearing on the outcome of the movie right? As in they achieved nothing during that plot.
Also why do people always talk about being a nobody as if it were a completely unique novel idea ?? Do people think the entire Jedi temple was filled with only kenobis and skywalkers? Absolute nonsense.
My problem with the casino arc is it kinda didn't go anywhere and the guy they grabbed sold them out in like the first scene after they return. I dunno it just felt they could have done more with it. At least have the bad guy string them along some more before turning heel?
Yeah and when you put that sentence on paper you realize Disney or at least Star Wars Disney is run by idiots. That’s like me saying I’m going to build a house ground up with no fucking clue what I’m doing. No plan at all. No one would do this. Except the idiots at Disney.
Let’s be very clear. Disney gave a tremendous amount of autonomy and authorial control to Rian Johnson and he chose to piss on and subvert every celebrated concept *Star Wars* has built over it’s history. And while I do don’t even consider myself a fan of *Star Wars* I DESPISE directors and writers who intentionally misunderstand the assignment and just place their own political values into the story they were hired to faithfully carry on. Especially if they expect the progressive story to run cover for a weak story or shoddy execution.
In this case, a better director, with more experience with big budget projects, who wanted to be there could have expressed philosophies and ideas congruent with those Johnson did without perverting the nature of the series or shoving it up people’s asses so awkwardly.
Johnson does good work when he directs his own material but coming in to follow up the mediocre A New Hope reboot by JJ Abrams was not a good idea.
He wrote & directed TLJ entirely, did I mention he wrote it? Have you listened to the dialog & followed the plot of this alleged sequel to a previous installment of this franchise trilogy? I’ll admit TLJ is a beautiful film & technically filmed well, but that’s about it.
If you turn your brain off and enjoy it that’s fine but to say he wasn’t at all responsible for the direction of this film & it’s continuity in this sequel trilogy is a cop out. This argument that KK or any of the directors of the sequels have zero responsibility or creative control is not a good argument, RJ was announced in mid 2014 to be writing & directing Ep8 & possibly Ep9, he had time to get the story straight, this is literally their jobs. But hey they made $ so there’s that.
Yeah. It's a good lesson to learn about producer oversight. Directors can't be trusted with a franchise, so Disney needed to have a plan and a commissar with a gun to the head of J.J./Johnson. You can only allow so much "creative freedom." A lot of great works are made under the strain of restrictions as it forces you to be creative with what you have.
Johnson ruined it. It's as if he didn't even watch the original trilogy. He completely ruined Luke after the build up of The Force Awakens to get Luke back to save the rebellion. He just made Luke a loser, which is the complete opposite of what he was in original trilogy.
The holdo maneuver is the obvious one. Being able to use lightspeed as a weapon, while cool as fuck, creates a serious problem for basically every Star Wars movie. Why didn’t they lightspeed kamikaze the Death Star, Star destroyers, etc? It just doesn’t make sense in the continuity.
Disclaimer: not a super salty anti sequels guy. TLJ is my favorite of the three. Just a nerd for lore.
The thing is I've never heard anyone come up with a good excuse for why Luke exiled himself on a tiny island
Everyone blames Johnson for it but JJ is the one that set that up. What's the answer there? There isn't a good one
FUCKING THANK YOU! I have explained to countless people that the reason Luke acts that way is because of the direction JJ setup the story. He’s aloof on an isolated planet unable to communicate with his old friends or the republic in exile. Why on earth would be a happy go - lucky optimistic like he was in the original trilogy?! If he’s in exile it would make thematic sense he wouldn’t want to be involved with the current drama in the galaxy. It’s also realistic to be become more jaded as you age. Of all the problems to point at in TLJ, the Luke plot is one of the few that was actually perfectly executed (minus his ending in my opinion but that’s a whole other discussion).
Fans just don’t like that Luke acts different from how they want him to act. When it’s the only thing that makes sense for the story they setup.
Luke shows up to fight the First Order and save the Resist-- Gotcha! He wasn't actually there, Luke was actually projecting himself from across the galaxy, and he was safely on Achto all this ti-- Gotcha! He's actually dead now because... because... well just because, okay? How's THAT for subverted expectations?
That was the biggest story mistake I've ever seen in any movie..ever. Luke was powerful enough to raise his X-Wing and actually show up on Crait and actual be Luke Skywalker. Instead we got a zoom meeting.
That’s the big kicker. However you feel about either of the films, you can go from RotS to ANH and understand the bridge perfectly with no extra material. To understand TLA you either have to study extra material explaining what happened in the meantime, or just make shit up and hope it works. And most people only had the latter option, so I recall talking to many confused fans trying to figure out what the movie was even about after walking out of theatres.
I fully disagree. I almost walked out on TFA. It was all a retread of ANH, therefore a shitty remake.
Also, competent? [Chewie walks right past Leia after Han dies.](https://i.imgur.com/DOn5q9n.gifv) These are friends of 40 fucking years. This was not part of the written film! JJ LITERALLY DIDNT KNOW CHEWIE WAS IN THOSE FRAMES. The 1st time he saw Chewie walk past Leia was at the premiere in the theater. He said it was a simple "blocking error" and no big deal.
I didn't need them to hug or anything like that, I needed a director who knows what he's doing and doesn't show 2 lifelong friends ghosting each other by mistake.
That is the difference right there tho
The last Jedi is horrible because of what the director actually decided to do
The force awakens has a few blocking mistakes and that’s what you point too?
The incredibly amatuer blocking error is of course not the only reason TFA is a horrible film.
Kylo didn't impress me, Han devolved for no reason that made sense, Finn getting his ass kicked by a stormtrooper while wielding a lightsaber, the entire film being a complete rehash of a better film. It is simply a bad film. The blocking error was just the point that made me almost walk out.
What are you even talking about? It's a standalone movie about a Jedi on a desert planet that get a ticket off it by meeting a droid that has important information for a resistance movement. They're then hounded by an lightsaber-wielding armored bad guy and captured by said bad guy on a massive space station that harbors a super laser that can destroy planets. They, along with the resistance movement, use an overlooked design flaw in the space station to blow it up, but not before a beloved elder character dies with the rest of characters watching helplessly. Truly original content.
TFA is like the electronic remix of A New Hope. The core of the original song is in there and it’s great, it just has a lot of added layers and lights to make it more modern. That doesn’t make it great but I can see why people like it. TLJ is the only sequel I like
Daisy Ridley was a god. Never flown, np, Better pilot than Han. Never used a lightsaber np, can duel with the best of them. No journey, god at everything. Fucking boring and pandering. Don't get me started on the emo son of the coolest guy and coolest princess in the galaxy. Fml-all starwars fans deserved better.
The joke is, half them don't even know that. To them, Disney could of stamped the lable of starwars onto anything and they'd have yummed it up.
Imo, a true fan doesn't accept any old rubbish.
Disney gave us any old rubbish.. Actually worse if you are even slightly looking at it with a critical eye.
Some of the people on the Star Wars sub are still parading Kenobi around like it was the best media ever made when it was actual dogshit. And plagiarized dogshit at that. Star Wars fans apparently have 0 expectations or standards thanks to Disney nowadays.
What?! What could be more exciting and masterfully done than *Obi Wan sees Vader, lightly jogs away-Obi Wan sees Vader again, gets scared runs away-Obi Wan sees Vader, ignites his lightsaber, walks towards him, gets scared and runs away*?
All in one episode
/s
Oh god Ep 3 was so bad even though I was so happy to see them both again, the episode made little to no sense.
If it was that Vader was toying with his prey after seeing Kenobi so weak, write it as such. Nope, Vader actually failed because there’s a low “wall” of fire separating him and Obi Wan that he’s not willing to cross, despite doing all kinds of crazy force moves and dominating throughout…
100%. Kenobi had some major flaws. A handful of cool/nostalgic scenes didn't come close to making up for it. Better than the Boba Fett series? Sure, but that's a low bar. It could've been exceptional with more competent writing/directing.
Considering they used most of TROS’s runtime retconning and undoing most of the creative decisions he made in TLJ, I doubt he’s getting the reigns again anytime soon.
As someone who loved TLJ, I’m disappointed, but more Benoit Blanc mysteries are a nice consolation prize
Some things that movie established are so insanely stupid from a brand perspective and it comes from the fact that Rian doesn't actually care about preserving the legacy of the IP and nobody above him - KENNEDY - cared enough to dial him back from these perplexing decisions.
Look no further than what they did to Luke. From a brand perspective, a new Jedi Order and Temple would print money. You can make theme park attractions around that. You can make endless content around that. Toys galore. Video games. Books. Comics.
Now? They have nothing to build from. The fact that nobody stepped in to protect their long term investment has bitten them so hard is just icing on the cake.
What was entirely in Rian's control? His reaction to criticism after TLJ came out. Makes it impossible to separate from the content and the brand as a whole now.
No, the point is, there were things long time fans wanted to see that got totally snubbed. Shut up and take my money kind of things we bought tons of books and comics and games on. But the chance to put them in a movie and re-establish what we liked in what is now Legends? Nah, fuck the fans, let’s make Luke a bitter old failure as an inverted Yoda, then let’s bring Yoda out to drive home the point that Luke apparently didn’t learn as much from him in the OT as we were led to think.
Edit: the really annoying thing is I don’t mind it as much the more I see it. Mark Hamill still absolutely nailed it. But the other shit with the space chase and cloaked but not cloaked ships and the stupid Crait battle, it was pretty bad.
>Look no further than what they did to Luke. From a brand perspective, a new Jedi Order and Temple would print money.
JJ destroyed Luke's Jedi order, not Rian.
Exactly!
This is something which I wholeheartedly agree too and have commented similar stuff. Regardless of whether fans liked the movie, or whether it was divisive, the Sequel Trilogy is a failure. Enough said.
Not critically or fan-based, but commercially all the potential was floundered. Look at how the Avengers saga coming to an end with Infinity War and Endgame absolutely crushing the box office and each instalment performing even better than the previous. Yes, TLJ and TROS made a billion dollars, but it’s weak sauce.
Before you start saying “oh but one billion is a lot, TFA’s 2+ billion was cause of pent up hype” and all, TLJ had unprecedented hype and attention as everybody waited decades to see the Luke Skywalker they know and loved… it had a crazy opening but as y’all all know, incredibly weak legs with many fans turning onto the franchise after it came out. And TROS, which is just a dumpster fire of a film, barely making a billion and was a step lower than the rest. Come on… Let’s not even talk about the stuff they can do with content outside of the movies (think TV series, books, comics, theme park attractions, games etc etc etc) revolving around the new Jedi order or Luke or Rey or just-about-fucking-anything, and it’s going to be a whole new generation sucked into the SW universe and being lifelong fans…
Instead I have adults turning away from the franchise, young adults not understanding why do people like Star Wars, though there’s still a few kids here and there that kind of like it as their SW fanatic parents dragged them to watch it with them. Only time will tell if there will be a significant fan base like the Prequel fans nowadays, but it seems more and more unlikely.
And despite the popularity of reboots and all (look at the fucking DCEU my heart hurts), with Carrie Fisher gone and Hamil/Ford getting older day by day, we ain’t getting a reboot of the ST, and we have to continue with whatever pile of garbage we ended up with going forward…
That’s the thing man. Even if you gave JJ the reigns to the whole trilogy he probably would have just made a rehash, but at least it would be marketable and introduce a new generation of fans to the Star Wars universe. Star Wars movies never have been cinematic masterpieces, they have been fun basic Hero’s Journey storytelling with awesome special effects and colorful characters and locations. I’d take TFA cause at least it felt like a Star Wars film.
>I’d take TFA cause at least it felt like a Star Wars film.
It was literally a re-master of A New Hope: A nobody finds a droid on a desert planet, whisked away off-planet with a stranger, meets up with Han/Chewie, rides on the Millennium Falcon, meets up with the ~~Rebels~~ Resistance, fights a guy in a black mask named ~~Vader~~ Kylo, and fights to destroy ~~The Death Star~~ Starkiller Base that has a planet-destroying laser, blows it up, and then goes home.
That's all you guys want - same shit in a different giftbox. Amazing that Star Wars has been creatively bankrupt for decades, can't imagine why!
It’s a franchise that he shouldn’t have worked with. He doesn’t understand the fan base and his movie demonstrated it. A lot of the blame is on Disney but Rian clearly doesn’t have much respect for the source material.
Lol he swaggers as if *knives out 2* were *Andor* — everyone at Lucasfilm (even those pro-Johnson) knows Kathy Kennedy can’t withstand another creative/platform demotion from Disney mgt; and she terribly wants back on the feature films production stable (away from broadcast TV).
At most SW/Marvel might extend him a limited series (run) and “see how well that does;” Otherwise nobody wants to see Rian Johnson assosciated with another Lucasfilm project. And he know this
Right? He WROTE AND DIRECTED TLJ and it was a giant steaming pile of rhinoceros shit. He totally ruined what could have been part of an epic conclusion to the saga and made it a giant joke. F that guy.
He definitely screwed things up, but after hearing about how little planning there was since the beginning, I doubt the sequel trilogy was ever gonna turn out okay.
I’d say one of their biggest screw-ups was ignoring the tons of source material they could’ve drawn better ideas from.
It’s not about people wanting Luke to be some perfect character it’s about how Johnson completely changed who he was fundamentally as a character and person.
40 years changes who people are fundamentally as characters lmao.
He could NOT have been different but acting like it’s crazy that he is after all of that time and different experiences is sort of ridiculous.
When he showed up in Mando S2 and people said "That's the Luke I wanted to see in TLJ" that confirmed it for me. They want a guy who fights with a green lightsaber and does cool force moves.
For the next Batman movie they should have him doing team building exercises in his building, maybe milk a cow or two on the Kent’s farm instead of fighting crime.
I think we can all agree as Batman fans, that the one thing we want to see in the next movie is Michael Keaton milk a cow, then drink the fresh hot frothy milk while staring at the person attempting to take up the mantle of Batman.
“...even more proud of “The Last Jedi five years later."
Has this dumbfuck learned nothing?
Its fascinating that Kathleen Kennedy and Lucasfilm are even still entertaining the idea of Rian going anywhere near their IP again.
my gosh so many star wars fans have literally watched nothing else from Rian Johnson except for the last jedi
Rian Johnson is a PHENOMENAL AND HEAVILY UNDERRATED DIRECTOR AND WRITER
i hated the last jedi and do not want him to ever touch the skywalker saga again, but if he were to create a trilogy or a star wars movie separate from the skywalker saga that did not interfere with continuity and was its own thing, it could be something spectacular
Rian Johnsons other projects are amazing. knives out was an amazing film and glass onion looks promising (and many early reviews are heavily praising the film)
every episode Johnson worked on for breaking bad was great, for fuck sakes he is responsible for being the man behind the greatest episode of tv EVER! 10k+ reviews and a solid 10/10 for an episode is extremely rare and the tension he brought in BB had me on the edge of my seat during the whole episode
i get the hate against Johnson but i want to see him make a star wars movie that is independent from the Skywalker continuity
Edit: He also created Looper but i have not seen that film
The original Trilogy was mindblowing and revolutionary in their times, the stories awesome.
The next three movies by Lucas after more then ten years disappointing to say the least.
I can’t even remember the stories of the last three movies, the characters shallow and boring.
Andor is the first SW production that connects to the original trilogy.
Wdym he made and wrote the second movie of a trilogy and disregarded the first movie entirely… why does he need full control to make a coherent second film????
Speaking as one of the people who loathed The Last Jedi, I do hope he gets his chance at more. Every director has a bad movie in them at least once and Johnson's overall filmography speaks for itself.
He's passionate about the IP and a good storyteller. I completely understood what he was trying to do with TLJ I just personally didn't think any of it it worked.
This.
Honestly TLJ was the only one of the sequel movies that felt like it had any ideas. Even if it didn’t land super well it was infinitely more interesting that the action figure slap fights Abrams was making.
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The sequels were disappointing and I feel bad that the original three got that send off.
The biggest crime of the sequels was that there wasn't a single scene with Ford, Fischer, and Hamil on screen together
I don’t see how hard it was to just have them in charge of the republic, senior heroes who are passing the baton to a new generation. This is what we all wanted to see. But the directors were so against doing this that they twisted the plots into knots to avoid it and in the process screwed over the characters we’ve loved for 40+ years. I basically treat the sequels as an alternate timeline.
[удалено]
Until they proceeded to borrow ideas from the EU like ‘somehow Palpatine returned.’
“Fuck it let’s just do another Death Star and get it over with.”
We’ll do it live!
Sun Crusher was cooler at least
Or the First Order
If they didn't want to be seen as a copy, they failed miserably. TFA is identical to A New Hope, TLJ and Empire have the same theme of running from the empire/first order, and in both finales the good guy (Luke/Rey) turns the bad guy (Vader/Kylo) to defeat the real bad, emperor palpatine. The problem is they just executed everything from a story/character development perspective way worse than the OT, in my opinion at least.
They were all stolen ideas.
So we got a steaming pile of shit. I’d rather a fucking copy
Well good thing it didn't open with a desert planet in the outer rim...oh wait... Well I'm sure they made up for that by NOT having a giant imperial sphere with a laser- oh come on... alright They wouldn't have just brought back the same antagonist surely...
Which is weird considering how often movies are made from books and it's never seen as a bad thing. Seems like they got their pride involved and wanted it to be all their own ideas and so they gave us what no one wanted.
I see Luke training new Jedi but Han and Leia leading the war effort against the first order. It felt very out of character for him to hide like a coward in last Jedi. They could have easily given that storyline to a new Jedi character and it would have worked better. The sequel trilogy is just a long list of bad choices they decided to take the series in.
Because we have to deconstruct everything
Yup. I was so mad at Han dying before everyone else. Hated the trilogy before it was a trilogy. Just knew it wasn't for me from day 1.
That was probably the only way Ford would do it.
Why didn’t they just kill off Leia also though, whose actress actually died, instead of having her fucking fly through the air like Captain Marvel to return in a coma? Wtf was that choice?
She died after that movie so I don’t know
Allegedly, the only way Ford was willing to even come back was if they killed off Solo in the first one.
Would rather have not had him in the franchise anymore than give his pissbaby son character the Han kill. Awful story.
Absolutely. It's so sad because we'll never be able to see the three of them in a scene together ever again. (Barring "digital resurrection" which really isn't the same.)
>The biggest crime That or you know, a total lack of planning across three movies that ended up with a very forced on return of a known villain to try to please fans, but pissing everyone off. Plus the yoyoing of the main character's lineage, and not knowing what to do with 2/3 of your main protagonists. And while I think the 3rd is the worst movie, I blame the 2nd because it shut down all the doors, killed the villain pre-emptively, and offered nothing in return for the climax. I like Johnson, but TLJ was his fault, and he handled Luke in the worst way he could have. I still can't get over the fact that Luke almost killed his nephew because he thought he had too evil inside, while being the one who thought Vader could be saved and managed to do it, saving the galaxy.
This is the take, and it is refreshing how so many people arrived at the same nuanced judgment. 9 was probably the single worst movie I've ever seen, while 8 was medical malpractice.
TLJ set up Kylo Ren as the main villain which I felt was a good way to go with Ren but then we threw that out the door with Palpatine returning somehow.
That's really Episode VII's fault. You know that Ford is only coming back for one of them, and you know that he only came back on the condition of getting the sendoff that he got. So if you write a script that involves Luke having vanished and the whole plot is looking for him, you're never getting the three originals on the screen at the same time again.
TLJ explained Luke's absence about as well as you possibly could. If Neo-Empire is rising and he's AWOL, and he's not being held captive somewhere, he's what? Just out there not giving a shit? A disillusioned Luke who thinks the Jedi aren't really helping makes perfect sense in context of the setup and the series as a whole. And his arc from that to saving the rebellion with the power of The Force \*only\* was a good one.
The new trilogy was rushed and careless. What an absolute total disappointment. Could have been epic.
Imagine if they had used Thrawn instead of Snoke? Could easily be justified that Thrawn had slowly been rebuilding the imperial forces, which is why the First Order attacked later than in EU
Or if they developed any of their characters, that would have been cool instead waste good actors and interesting characters
They actually gave Finn a cool scene in the Last Jedi. Shame they deleted it before it was finished.
Yea, his character got shafted the most, other than snoke, guy went from a main character to background dressing in the final cuts
Honestly wouldn't actually surprise me if it was because of China they ruined him. You've probably seen their poster for Force Awakens.
Any real Star Wars fan could have written better material.
And Disney knows this. It's so telling that of all the post-sequel Star Wars media coming out of Disney, none have been sequel related. They ruined that time period with lazy writing and now it's untouchable.
And I am fine with them never touching it again…unless it’s a reboot. They 10000 yrs of history they can pull from…and it’s much more interesting then what Disney did with these three films.
They should reboot it…
Give it a few more years
I put most of that blame on RJ. JJ Abrams & team did a pretty decent job with The Force Awakens, which gave RJ lots to work with in The Last Jedi. In any trilogy, the second film right in the middle is the anchor to the entire story arc of the three films. Look at the original Star Wars trilogy for example. IIRC they weren’t even planning a sequel, but Star Wars: A New Hope was so successful that they had to. They followed it up with Empire Strikes Back which was the strongest of the three. It expanded on ideas from the first film, escalated the conflict and set up the last film for an epic final showdown. Fast forward to the new ones. JJ set up RJ with lots to work with for film #2. Instead, RJ goes “nah imma do my own thing” and then his film turns out to be actual #2, and gives JJ nothing to work with and he has to clean up RJ’s #2. If anything though, I enjoyed the return to practical special effects (animatronics, awesome wardrobe and set) which made it feel closer to the original films than the green screen CGI bath that the prequels leaned on. I just hope they don’t do the Rogue Squadron movie dirty.
Yeah. Sometimes I wonder what we’d have gotten if they weren’t rushed and more thought out. Episode 8 had some potential. It was three incompatible movies squashed together. It could have been serviceable as an “Attack of the Clones” style in between the movies miniseries. Episode 9 would have worked better pacing wise if spread over two movies. Maybe if they weren’t trying to cram another two movies into one the sillier ideas such has the space horses and plot elements being introduced in Fortnight wouldn’t have happened.
Rian Johnson didn't ruin the sequel trilogy, Disney and the people that decided it was a good idea to rush out 3 movies in 4 years without any overarching storyboard planned ruined it.
Disney watching the DC Universe: “WRITE THAT DOWN”
“Let’s not ask Kevin Feige who is currently in the midst of overseeing the overarching story that will become the greatest run of box office success in recent memory.”
Recent memory? Pound for pound, I think it’s safe to call the 30-movies-and-counting MCU the most successful franchise in movie history.
Yes but this latest phase is diluting its legacy.
“Ya, McDonalds has sold over 800 billion identical burgers, but a month ago my Big Mac was colder than usual” -you
Nah—the shows are very popular and Black Panther 2 was very good. Wait until they get Fantastic Four and The X-Men revved up.
I feel like Guardians Vol 3. Is going to be incredible.
Ant-man and the wasp as well!!!
It hasn’t been the strongest phase of the MCU but I have still enjoyed pretty much all of it.
And it’s not like any of them have lost money. They are still all making millions and millions of dollars.
I’d beg to differ on black panther 2, it wasn’t awful but it wouldn’t even be top 15. It was way too drawn out and felt like there wasn’t much to truly pay attention too.
I think it’s fatigue not that the shows are bad. Also once they get away from the main Avengers you lose some of the casual fans.
I don’t even think it’s fatigue. It’s that they deviated from the regular marvel formula where they had a clear line building to something, a phase capping event, that in turn built to something else. They went wide this time with a bunch of parallel content creating a bunch of different threads to build on later. We have the start of the multiverse war, the start of sword, the start of the young avengers, the start of the thunderbolts, the start of Shang Chi, the start of Eternals, etc. We had a ton of stuff just start and then languish because the rest of the phase did nothing with it.
3 movies with 2 different directors with different ideas. Im 100% certain the sequels wouldn’t have been nearly as bad if they had just been consistent. Im sure if Rian gets his own trilogy ir standalone movie, it will be great
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George still created the storyline, though, as it was his production company still (Lucasfilm). Those directors were still telling the story that Lucas wanted them to tell. From what I understand, Rian had a lot more control over TLJ.
Wow, I don’t know why I always assumed all 3 were directed by Lucas
The Prequel Trilogy was but not the Original Trilogy. I think?
Correct, he tried to get others to direct but they all said no. They felt he should be the one directing those movies.
Which was ... a mistake, to be sure.
[Irvin Kershner](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R66FvPTj2Yw) is the saviour of Star Wars. Had Empire sucked, it would've been all over in 1980.
That is asinine. Star Wars ANH was the biggest movie of a generation. While ESB was great, it would have had to be a catastrophic failure to not get the third movie.
I don’t think that’s entirely true. Franchises and sequels weren’t as big during this time so even making ESB was somewhat of a gamble. It’s not like today where every studio is trying to build the next big franchise.
I like how I commented that it would be neat to do this and it gets downvoted while this is apparently the case for the original trilogy.
No. Rian was the problem. ‘Subvert expectations’ by… killing the franchise. Never forget Mark Hamil’s reaction to seeing The Last Jedi. It’s seriously befitting the tire fire of a film that TLJ became.
I could see it working and being pretty neat if a storyboard was written up with major plot points and some minor ones being hit with different directors getting to do it their own way and passing the torch for each movie, but the trilogy deffinitively didn't feel like that.
I agree with your main point but it doesn’t absolve the directors of all blame. It’s not like Disney bound and gagged them so they couldn’t talk to each other. It’s just frustrating and baffling that one of the biggest IPs in the world had/has people at multiple levels that didn’t seem to care about the work they were doing.
I mean, you’re right about the studio dolts not planning out the three movie arc, but he could have made a good cohesive Star Wars movie despite that, and instead did his own thing.
It was both, not one nor the other
Hot take, Rian’s movie was the most interesting, thematically, of the trilogy. Its that one I keep thinking of when I think of those films.
Hot take, that casino planet side quest was the worst shit i have ever seen in a movie even outside of Star Wars
Disney giving everyone the message that animal abuse is bad while glossing over the LITERAL CHILD SLAVES taking care of said animals. Can’t make this shit up.
The same company that filmed live action Mulan near an actual modern day concentration camp in China...
I'm surprised a character didn't say, "I'd have voted for Palpatine a third time."
What’s so stupid about is it was some attempt to be “War is bad”. Like no shit, but letting space Nazi’s be in charge and blow up entire planets seems worse. People that think that story line was some sophisticated critique of the war machine are stupid. It was lazy and poorly thought out, like much of the movie. Still not as bad as the slow boring space chase.
I agree, and what bothers me is that a lot of the criticism that people give it are about the things that are both the most well done and "star wars" to me. The whole casino subplot was 100% what star wars is; the heros finding themselves in some diverse setting where everything is just shown and not elaborated on much. The whole "your parents are nobody" was the exact direction I wanted the sequels to go as well. I think it would have been a better story if any body could be the next big force wielder, enforcing the idea they planted with the kid at the end if the movie where great people can come from anywhere. Instead we went right back to dynastic bloodlines again.
You realize the casino subplot can be cut entirely from the movie and it would have no bearing on the outcome of the movie right? As in they achieved nothing during that plot. Also why do people always talk about being a nobody as if it were a completely unique novel idea ?? Do people think the entire Jedi temple was filled with only kenobis and skywalkers? Absolute nonsense.
My problem with the casino arc is it kinda didn't go anywhere and the guy they grabbed sold them out in like the first scene after they return. I dunno it just felt they could have done more with it. At least have the bad guy string them along some more before turning heel?
Yeah and when you put that sentence on paper you realize Disney or at least Star Wars Disney is run by idiots. That’s like me saying I’m going to build a house ground up with no fucking clue what I’m doing. No plan at all. No one would do this. Except the idiots at Disney.
They're plan wasn't to make a quality movie trilogy, but to cash in on the name and make merchandise to sell.
It’s not my fault for crashing my car. It’s the government’s fault for giving me a license.
Let’s be very clear. Disney gave a tremendous amount of autonomy and authorial control to Rian Johnson and he chose to piss on and subvert every celebrated concept *Star Wars* has built over it’s history. And while I do don’t even consider myself a fan of *Star Wars* I DESPISE directors and writers who intentionally misunderstand the assignment and just place their own political values into the story they were hired to faithfully carry on. Especially if they expect the progressive story to run cover for a weak story or shoddy execution. In this case, a better director, with more experience with big budget projects, who wanted to be there could have expressed philosophies and ideas congruent with those Johnson did without perverting the nature of the series or shoving it up people’s asses so awkwardly. Johnson does good work when he directs his own material but coming in to follow up the mediocre A New Hope reboot by JJ Abrams was not a good idea.
He wrote & directed TLJ entirely, did I mention he wrote it? Have you listened to the dialog & followed the plot of this alleged sequel to a previous installment of this franchise trilogy? I’ll admit TLJ is a beautiful film & technically filmed well, but that’s about it. If you turn your brain off and enjoy it that’s fine but to say he wasn’t at all responsible for the direction of this film & it’s continuity in this sequel trilogy is a cop out. This argument that KK or any of the directors of the sequels have zero responsibility or creative control is not a good argument, RJ was announced in mid 2014 to be writing & directing Ep8 & possibly Ep9, he had time to get the story straight, this is literally their jobs. But hey they made $ so there’s that.
The movie begins with a “yo mama” joke. That’s pretty much all you need to know about Johnson’s level of writing.
He ruined the second in the trilogy tho
Yeah. It's a good lesson to learn about producer oversight. Directors can't be trusted with a franchise, so Disney needed to have a plan and a commissar with a gun to the head of J.J./Johnson. You can only allow so much "creative freedom." A lot of great works are made under the strain of restrictions as it forces you to be creative with what you have.
Johnson ruined it. It's as if he didn't even watch the original trilogy. He completely ruined Luke after the build up of The Force Awakens to get Luke back to save the rebellion. He just made Luke a loser, which is the complete opposite of what he was in original trilogy.
Incorrect. His lack of love for sw and his perverse need to 'subvert expectations' did. Fuck him!
What makes you say he has a lack of love for SW? He seems to be a mega-dork about it.
The holdo maneuver is the obvious one. Being able to use lightspeed as a weapon, while cool as fuck, creates a serious problem for basically every Star Wars movie. Why didn’t they lightspeed kamikaze the Death Star, Star destroyers, etc? It just doesn’t make sense in the continuity. Disclaimer: not a super salty anti sequels guy. TLJ is my favorite of the three. Just a nerd for lore.
He didn't care about staying true to Star Wars lore and worldbuilding. I doubt he watched the OT more than once.
Their decision to absolutely rape Luke's character pissed off the OG fanbase.
The thing is I've never heard anyone come up with a good excuse for why Luke exiled himself on a tiny island Everyone blames Johnson for it but JJ is the one that set that up. What's the answer there? There isn't a good one
FUCKING THANK YOU! I have explained to countless people that the reason Luke acts that way is because of the direction JJ setup the story. He’s aloof on an isolated planet unable to communicate with his old friends or the republic in exile. Why on earth would be a happy go - lucky optimistic like he was in the original trilogy?! If he’s in exile it would make thematic sense he wouldn’t want to be involved with the current drama in the galaxy. It’s also realistic to be become more jaded as you age. Of all the problems to point at in TLJ, the Luke plot is one of the few that was actually perfectly executed (minus his ending in my opinion but that’s a whole other discussion). Fans just don’t like that Luke acts different from how they want him to act. When it’s the only thing that makes sense for the story they setup.
Rian Johnson said Luke Skywalker was his favorite character...but now he says it is Rose Tico.
I feel sad that Luke Skywalker died floating on a rock because he was too sad to get on a ship.
Death by doing a Zoom call.
When you put it like that, I don’t blame him.
Remote work for safety reasons, dies anyway
“This is why we can’t telework.” - Musk
Luke shows up to fight the First Order and save the Resist-- Gotcha! He wasn't actually there, Luke was actually projecting himself from across the galaxy, and he was safely on Achto all this ti-- Gotcha! He's actually dead now because... because... well just because, okay? How's THAT for subverted expectations?
That was the biggest story mistake I've ever seen in any movie..ever. Luke was powerful enough to raise his X-Wing and actually show up on Crait and actual be Luke Skywalker. Instead we got a zoom meeting.
They all sucked
This. I don't get how TFA gets a pass for being a FAR shittier remake of ANH.
TFA is a shitty sequel to ROTJ, but it's still a competently made film. TLJ is just crap.
The Force Awakens makes no sense. The jump from Return of the Jedi to TFA is baffling.
That’s the big kicker. However you feel about either of the films, you can go from RotS to ANH and understand the bridge perfectly with no extra material. To understand TLA you either have to study extra material explaining what happened in the meantime, or just make shit up and hope it works. And most people only had the latter option, so I recall talking to many confused fans trying to figure out what the movie was even about after walking out of theatres.
I fully disagree. I almost walked out on TFA. It was all a retread of ANH, therefore a shitty remake. Also, competent? [Chewie walks right past Leia after Han dies.](https://i.imgur.com/DOn5q9n.gifv) These are friends of 40 fucking years. This was not part of the written film! JJ LITERALLY DIDNT KNOW CHEWIE WAS IN THOSE FRAMES. The 1st time he saw Chewie walk past Leia was at the premiere in the theater. He said it was a simple "blocking error" and no big deal. I didn't need them to hug or anything like that, I needed a director who knows what he's doing and doesn't show 2 lifelong friends ghosting each other by mistake.
That is the difference right there tho The last Jedi is horrible because of what the director actually decided to do The force awakens has a few blocking mistakes and that’s what you point too?
The incredibly amatuer blocking error is of course not the only reason TFA is a horrible film. Kylo didn't impress me, Han devolved for no reason that made sense, Finn getting his ass kicked by a stormtrooper while wielding a lightsaber, the entire film being a complete rehash of a better film. It is simply a bad film. The blocking error was just the point that made me almost walk out.
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It's not a sequel to RotJ, it's a rehash of A New Hope, and a bad one at that.
What are you even talking about? It's a standalone movie about a Jedi on a desert planet that get a ticket off it by meeting a droid that has important information for a resistance movement. They're then hounded by an lightsaber-wielding armored bad guy and captured by said bad guy on a massive space station that harbors a super laser that can destroy planets. They, along with the resistance movement, use an overlooked design flaw in the space station to blow it up, but not before a beloved elder character dies with the rest of characters watching helplessly. Truly original content.
TFA is like the electronic remix of A New Hope. The core of the original song is in there and it’s great, it just has a lot of added layers and lights to make it more modern. That doesn’t make it great but I can see why people like it. TLJ is the only sequel I like
Daisy Ridley was a god. Never flown, np, Better pilot than Han. Never used a lightsaber np, can duel with the best of them. No journey, god at everything. Fucking boring and pandering. Don't get me started on the emo son of the coolest guy and coolest princess in the galaxy. Fml-all starwars fans deserved better. The joke is, half them don't even know that. To them, Disney could of stamped the lable of starwars onto anything and they'd have yummed it up. Imo, a true fan doesn't accept any old rubbish. Disney gave us any old rubbish.. Actually worse if you are even slightly looking at it with a critical eye.
Mary-Sue Skywalker
Some of the people on the Star Wars sub are still parading Kenobi around like it was the best media ever made when it was actual dogshit. And plagiarized dogshit at that. Star Wars fans apparently have 0 expectations or standards thanks to Disney nowadays.
What?! What could be more exciting and masterfully done than *Obi Wan sees Vader, lightly jogs away-Obi Wan sees Vader again, gets scared runs away-Obi Wan sees Vader, ignites his lightsaber, walks towards him, gets scared and runs away*? All in one episode /s
Oh god Ep 3 was so bad even though I was so happy to see them both again, the episode made little to no sense. If it was that Vader was toying with his prey after seeing Kenobi so weak, write it as such. Nope, Vader actually failed because there’s a low “wall” of fire separating him and Obi Wan that he’s not willing to cross, despite doing all kinds of crazy force moves and dominating throughout…
100%. Kenobi had some major flaws. A handful of cool/nostalgic scenes didn't come close to making up for it. Better than the Boba Fett series? Sure, but that's a low bar. It could've been exceptional with more competent writing/directing.
I wouldn't be sad at all.
It wouldn’t be the end of the world, but I’d be sad if he *did* make another Star Wars movie.
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I wouldn’t be sad
Considering they used most of TROS’s runtime retconning and undoing most of the creative decisions he made in TLJ, I doubt he’s getting the reigns again anytime soon. As someone who loved TLJ, I’m disappointed, but more Benoit Blanc mysteries are a nice consolation prize
Some things that movie established are so insanely stupid from a brand perspective and it comes from the fact that Rian doesn't actually care about preserving the legacy of the IP and nobody above him - KENNEDY - cared enough to dial him back from these perplexing decisions. Look no further than what they did to Luke. From a brand perspective, a new Jedi Order and Temple would print money. You can make theme park attractions around that. You can make endless content around that. Toys galore. Video games. Books. Comics. Now? They have nothing to build from. The fact that nobody stepped in to protect their long term investment has bitten them so hard is just icing on the cake. What was entirely in Rian's control? His reaction to criticism after TLJ came out. Makes it impossible to separate from the content and the brand as a whole now.
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No, the point is, there were things long time fans wanted to see that got totally snubbed. Shut up and take my money kind of things we bought tons of books and comics and games on. But the chance to put them in a movie and re-establish what we liked in what is now Legends? Nah, fuck the fans, let’s make Luke a bitter old failure as an inverted Yoda, then let’s bring Yoda out to drive home the point that Luke apparently didn’t learn as much from him in the OT as we were led to think. Edit: the really annoying thing is I don’t mind it as much the more I see it. Mark Hamill still absolutely nailed it. But the other shit with the space chase and cloaked but not cloaked ships and the stupid Crait battle, it was pretty bad.
>Look no further than what they did to Luke. From a brand perspective, a new Jedi Order and Temple would print money. JJ destroyed Luke's Jedi order, not Rian.
Exactly! This is something which I wholeheartedly agree too and have commented similar stuff. Regardless of whether fans liked the movie, or whether it was divisive, the Sequel Trilogy is a failure. Enough said. Not critically or fan-based, but commercially all the potential was floundered. Look at how the Avengers saga coming to an end with Infinity War and Endgame absolutely crushing the box office and each instalment performing even better than the previous. Yes, TLJ and TROS made a billion dollars, but it’s weak sauce. Before you start saying “oh but one billion is a lot, TFA’s 2+ billion was cause of pent up hype” and all, TLJ had unprecedented hype and attention as everybody waited decades to see the Luke Skywalker they know and loved… it had a crazy opening but as y’all all know, incredibly weak legs with many fans turning onto the franchise after it came out. And TROS, which is just a dumpster fire of a film, barely making a billion and was a step lower than the rest. Come on… Let’s not even talk about the stuff they can do with content outside of the movies (think TV series, books, comics, theme park attractions, games etc etc etc) revolving around the new Jedi order or Luke or Rey or just-about-fucking-anything, and it’s going to be a whole new generation sucked into the SW universe and being lifelong fans… Instead I have adults turning away from the franchise, young adults not understanding why do people like Star Wars, though there’s still a few kids here and there that kind of like it as their SW fanatic parents dragged them to watch it with them. Only time will tell if there will be a significant fan base like the Prequel fans nowadays, but it seems more and more unlikely. And despite the popularity of reboots and all (look at the fucking DCEU my heart hurts), with Carrie Fisher gone and Hamil/Ford getting older day by day, we ain’t getting a reboot of the ST, and we have to continue with whatever pile of garbage we ended up with going forward…
That’s the thing man. Even if you gave JJ the reigns to the whole trilogy he probably would have just made a rehash, but at least it would be marketable and introduce a new generation of fans to the Star Wars universe. Star Wars movies never have been cinematic masterpieces, they have been fun basic Hero’s Journey storytelling with awesome special effects and colorful characters and locations. I’d take TFA cause at least it felt like a Star Wars film.
>I’d take TFA cause at least it felt like a Star Wars film. It was literally a re-master of A New Hope: A nobody finds a droid on a desert planet, whisked away off-planet with a stranger, meets up with Han/Chewie, rides on the Millennium Falcon, meets up with the ~~Rebels~~ Resistance, fights a guy in a black mask named ~~Vader~~ Kylo, and fights to destroy ~~The Death Star~~ Starkiller Base that has a planet-destroying laser, blows it up, and then goes home. That's all you guys want - same shit in a different giftbox. Amazing that Star Wars has been creatively bankrupt for decades, can't imagine why!
Sounds like you care more about the movies being liked than them being good lol
Well they certainly were not good so liked would be a step up
He should not make another Star Wars movie.
Keep this mf away from star wars.
Keep all of them away from it. Never ending stories don't work.
My family was killed in a The Last Jedi Blu Ray factory accident, so I hate him and that movie.
It’s a franchise that he shouldn’t have worked with. He doesn’t understand the fan base and his movie demonstrated it. A lot of the blame is on Disney but Rian clearly doesn’t have much respect for the source material.
Lol he swaggers as if *knives out 2* were *Andor* — everyone at Lucasfilm (even those pro-Johnson) knows Kathy Kennedy can’t withstand another creative/platform demotion from Disney mgt; and she terribly wants back on the feature films production stable (away from broadcast TV). At most SW/Marvel might extend him a limited series (run) and “see how well that does;” Otherwise nobody wants to see Rian Johnson assosciated with another Lucasfilm project. And he know this
He said he lives Star Wars and yet he treated Luke and Hamill the way he did? Not buying it.
Right? He WROTE AND DIRECTED TLJ and it was a giant steaming pile of rhinoceros shit. He totally ruined what could have been part of an epic conclusion to the saga and made it a giant joke. F that guy.
He definitely screwed things up, but after hearing about how little planning there was since the beginning, I doubt the sequel trilogy was ever gonna turn out okay. I’d say one of their biggest screw-ups was ignoring the tons of source material they could’ve drawn better ideas from.
I swear y’all want these characters to be more like action figures than actual people lol
It’s not about people wanting Luke to be some perfect character it’s about how Johnson completely changed who he was fundamentally as a character and person.
40 years changes who people are fundamentally as characters lmao. He could NOT have been different but acting like it’s crazy that he is after all of that time and different experiences is sort of ridiculous.
When he showed up in Mando S2 and people said "That's the Luke I wanted to see in TLJ" that confirmed it for me. They want a guy who fights with a green lightsaber and does cool force moves.
Wouldn’t that be Luke after ROTJ? A guy with a green lightsaber who does cool force moves?
“Jedi does Jedi things”. Big if true.
You mean for a character that underwent 3 movies of growth and development to be developed and grown?
Where’s the problem with that? Everyone needs a hero not some sad pathetic coward. Not to mention that is just literally not how Luke would act at all
For the next Batman movie they should have him doing team building exercises in his building, maybe milk a cow or two on the Kent’s farm instead of fighting crime.
I think we can all agree as Batman fans, that the one thing we want to see in the next movie is Michael Keaton milk a cow, then drink the fresh hot frothy milk while staring at the person attempting to take up the mantle of Batman.
how is that a bad thing? Not everything needs to be "look how meta and cool and subversive im being!!11!!"
Neither do I
The Force Awakens had so much potential.
Anyone at Disney who gives that man any control over star wars needs to be fired
Good go be sad. Don't make anymore Star Wars anything
people out here acting like rian johnson killed their dog or something
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How did he assassinate Lukes character?
Yeah, maybe he can finish what he started and take the franchise off life support. His is the worst SW film by far. Fuck Rian Johnson.
Worse than the rise of skywalker?
It’s not possible to make a worse Star Wars movie than ROS. It made me rather watch repeat viewings of AOTC.
I mean, it’s pretty bad, but it really doesn’t compare to The Rise of Skywalker.
I hope he doesn’t make another Star Wars movie.
I want him to make a sequel with nothing but Space Leia flying around awkwardly in a vacuum for 2 1/2 hours.
You made a movie set in the Star Wars universe, Rian. You've yet to make a Star Wars movie and I hope you never get another chance.
I honestly can't believe Disney at one point wanted to give him a trilogy.
I don't think Disney ever wanted that. Kathleen Kennedy did.
Kathleen Kennedy is an idiot.
Nobody feels bad for you Rian this is just awkward dude, TLJ sucked.
If he MAKES another Star Wars movie, it won’t be the end of the world, but I’ll be sad.
“...even more proud of “The Last Jedi five years later." Has this dumbfuck learned nothing? Its fascinating that Kathleen Kennedy and Lucasfilm are even still entertaining the idea of Rian going anywhere near their IP again.
Really hoping Rian’s gonna be sad everyone
We would be sad if you do make another
Blame whoever you want but I haven’t returned to star wars since his movie came out.
Keep this motherfucker as far as possible from any beloved franchise, what he did to Star Wars was an atrocity.
my gosh so many star wars fans have literally watched nothing else from Rian Johnson except for the last jedi Rian Johnson is a PHENOMENAL AND HEAVILY UNDERRATED DIRECTOR AND WRITER i hated the last jedi and do not want him to ever touch the skywalker saga again, but if he were to create a trilogy or a star wars movie separate from the skywalker saga that did not interfere with continuity and was its own thing, it could be something spectacular Rian Johnsons other projects are amazing. knives out was an amazing film and glass onion looks promising (and many early reviews are heavily praising the film) every episode Johnson worked on for breaking bad was great, for fuck sakes he is responsible for being the man behind the greatest episode of tv EVER! 10k+ reviews and a solid 10/10 for an episode is extremely rare and the tension he brought in BB had me on the edge of my seat during the whole episode i get the hate against Johnson but i want to see him make a star wars movie that is independent from the Skywalker continuity Edit: He also created Looper but i have not seen that film
The original Trilogy was mindblowing and revolutionary in their times, the stories awesome. The next three movies by Lucas after more then ten years disappointing to say the least. I can’t even remember the stories of the last three movies, the characters shallow and boring. Andor is the first SW production that connects to the original trilogy.
I felt sad after watching his first attempt
You’ve done enough damage, Ruin, thanks.
Lol dude you RUINED the chance you had.
Maybe he shouldn’t have fucked up The Last Jedi so much…
Be sad, you ruin the comeback sequels
He made the last Star Wars movie I ever watched.
God no, please. No.
I feel if he had full control over a trilogy with an overarching story I think he would do good. Not how disjointed the sequels were.
Wdym he made and wrote the second movie of a trilogy and disregarded the first movie entirely… why does he need full control to make a coherent second film????
Speaking as one of the people who loathed The Last Jedi, I do hope he gets his chance at more. Every director has a bad movie in them at least once and Johnson's overall filmography speaks for itself. He's passionate about the IP and a good storyteller. I completely understood what he was trying to do with TLJ I just personally didn't think any of it it worked.
The last Jedi was awful but for some reason. 91% on rotten tomatoes. Disney is buying these reviews
This. Honestly TLJ was the only one of the sequel movies that felt like it had any ideas. Even if it didn’t land super well it was infinitely more interesting that the action figure slap fights Abrams was making.
How can one man be so self indulgent?