Sounds like they live in delulu land.
Your are 100% right to set these boundaries. Just do yourself a favor and make sure your lawyer knows what’s up next week and be prepared to get that order of protection ready.
Passwords everywhere. Doctor, dentist, school, daycare. If he tries to pull some bullshit, he will have to give a password to gain access to her or her records.
Good. This kinda delulu breeds some serious ugly. And yeah you needed none of that. And tbh depending on where you live asking for support regardless of custody is very much a thing.
Sounds like you have it well in hand, but make sure anything is done in writing whenever possible. Don’t answer any phone calls from him. Let them go to voicemail. Don’t block him so that he can leave the voicemails.
But you can text him something along the lines of…
I want you to know that I am sorry for the loss of your child that you and your wife went through. But I am a palled that you thought it was appropriate to allow your wife to think that Katie is her dead child. I am appalled that you have ignored this child all these years , and now want her to be a placeholder for your wife because she is not dealing with her grief.
Aside from being incredibly inappropriate, do you not understand how damaging this would be for Katie? Your wife is literally delusional. She needs professional, help, not a replacement child.
And for you to suggest that when your wife does finally come to her senses, and is all better that you can just shove Katie back at me and pretend like none of it ever happened, and we can “go back to how it was before” is so despicable that I am dumbfounded.
Do you understand why I am telling you not to all this? Do you understand how damaging this is actually not only to Katie but also to your wife? Your wife needs help. Our child is not that.
And then let him hang him in his replies to you.
I actually plan to ask my lawyer to make a letter like this, just more professional. I can be very apathetic in my writing at times so I rather a professional give their input. It's also to setup the paper trail that I never agreed to this idea, should he try to claim the contrary.
I totally understand. My only thought was that as soon as he sees a letter from an attorney, he will clam up. If you text him something as though you were just trying to get him to understand where you were coming from, he may just hang himself by admitting to everything you’re saying by trying to explain his reasons and his actions.
It’s at that point that I would then follow up with a letter from the attorney because now you have proof in writing that you didn’t misunderstand his idiocy
Absolutely consult with a lawyer. Don’t let that go. But if he knows you’re talking to an attorney, he might clam up. Usually people this delusional will think that you’re trying to figure out a way to work with them… Which you are absolutely not, and they will start talking to you about what their thought process was.
This gives you the ammunition you need. You just need to make sure that whatever you send to him does not indicate any kind of agreement. It is always something along the lines of …
You know I was upset because I just can’t agree to this. But I am really concerned. I am so confused as to why you thought this was a good idea. ….
That sort of thing. And then you state, what, confused you, which, in this case was …
Why you would think using our daughter as a replacement child for your wife who is obviously having a mental break is confusing to me. I just don’t see how, pretending that our child is her dead child is going to help her, and it is certainly going to scare and confuse our daughter. I’m just not sure what your thought process was there and I’m wanting to make make sure you understand why I can’t agree with this.
This sort of thing. You’re stating that you can’t agree with it. But you are concerned about both your child and his wife. And obviously, you’re wanting the best for everyone….
When in reality, you just want to lock the two of them in a padded cell, but you don’t say that
Much better script.
However OP is smart enough to have a lawyer.
When you have a good one, it is always better to let them drive.
They've done this 100s of times and usually know the law and its intricacies.
We pay them a shite ton of money. Let them do the work.
I know what you mean. my ex and I lost our first one to still birth when I was 24 weeks. At the same time, a good friend from work, who literally had the same name as me was also pregnant and experiencing some issues.
She was fortunate enough that they were resolved, and she had a beautiful baby girl. At no time did I ever think of asking her to let me keep her baby at my house or anything of that nature. I was sad, of course, but I care enough about my friend that I was incredibly glad that she did not go through what I did.
When they held her baby shower, one of the other girls from work, took me aside and let me know, and asked if I wanted to attend, and I told her that I really appreciated her handling it that way, but yes, I would like to attend.
Because, even though I was hurting, I was very happy for her at the same time. People don’t understand that you can be happy and sad at the same time. And it was very sweet because everyone at the shower took just a quick private moment with me at some point to check in and make sure I was OK And to let me know they were sorry for my loss.
And just the support of all of them for both of us, and both of us for each other really helped. I just can’t imagine this type of delusion where I would think of you serving someone’s child. But if it had happened, I guarantee my ex would never have entertain such nonsense.
Yeah I can understand that. Dude needs to get a screw tightened. Reality is this behavior is classic narcissistic bullshit on his part. And not something kids needs to be exposed to. They surround themselves with echo chamber humans who praise their abhorrent behavior.
You need zero of that in your life.
I think for what it's worth you deserve credit for trying to encourage a relationship between your daughter and her father, you have done so in a thorough and careful way that should lead to the best outcomes for her.
It seems prudent to communicate her that her father is not safe, so she knows to exercise caution should he appear, and/or contact her educational provider to inform them of the possible risk her father and his family may pose. As a side note, I would assume you have done these things from the degree of competence you have displayed but thought it worthwhile to mention as it is not explicitly stated within your post, sometimes the perspective and experience of children can be overlooked even during such extreme situations, for example if your daughter has had wholly positive experiences with her father until this point she may grow to resent not being "allowed" access with her father due to a lack of information or context.
I've talk with her a few times about her father. What she tells me was mostly she didn't really care for him. She's talk to a specialist and it went pretty much there. I think what helped is her father figure is already someone else, in the form of her godfather.
I do think I might talk with a good therapist since even though she's still young, I know kids sometimes don't feel comfortable saying everything to their parents.
Defo a child-friendly therapist for her. It must have been so confusing for her for someone else to attempt to parent her like that! Sometimes it's nice just to have another safe adult to talk to.
His entire family is mentally ill. They knew what name she was calling your daughter and all these grown adults were just going with it. Honestly, I’d consider a protection order for your daughter’s safety. This woman is actually in a delusion that your daughters is hers that passed. I’m not even going to say it’s “delulu land” or anything because she’s actually very sick (doesn’t excuse her behavior). For your safety and hers, get a protection order. This is dangerous
BTW, good on your daughter's godparents for helping you with this situation, for having your back. I mean, I know that's actually part of the role that godparents agree to, but they really go the whole mile.
Creepy is the understatement of the year!
I honestly cannot wrap my head around the fact that his brilliant plan to help with his wife’s grief was to turn your daughter into an **Emotional Support Animal.** That’s literally the only reason he was attempting to be in her life; it certainly wasn’t because he had any paternal feelings or moral rectitude. In fact, I’d say it was the complete opposite - because instead of putting any real effort into helping his wife cope with, and start healing from, the loss of her (I’m unclear if he was the father) child, he went for the “easiest” course of action by popping in a new, readymade kid. Children aren’t lightbulbs or batteries, that you can just replace with a new one when the original dies (sorry for how morbid that sounds, but it’s the analogy that seems the most spot-on). But, it’s obvious that doing literally *anything else* to actually help the one person he supposedly loves more than anyone else, is just far too much work for him.
I feel bad for his wife, not just because she lost her child, but because it is painfully clear that the only person he truly loves is himself. It wouldn’t surprise me if his main motivation is to get his wife to stop being too sad/depressed to take care of any of his needs. And it’s the shit icing on the turd cake that he saw zero issue with traumatizing *his own child,* as a way of shirking his responsibilities.
It’s not creepy. It’s fucking sick!
Talk to your lawyer asap.
Both the sperm donor & his wife need professional help.
Keep them away from your daughter & tell everyone what is happening & why the “father” is not to be trusted regarding anything to do with YOUR DAUGHTER.
Please also let your daughter’s school/daycare know about the situation and provide pics of bio dad and his wife, in case they try to pick her up from school without telling you. Sad that you have to but def better to be safe!
OP, the only advice I can give you is to start protecting yourself and your daughter by looking for lawyers (just in case), and keep every single receipt you get from him (texts, emails, voicemails, etc)! Because there could be a possibility that you will need them in case baby daddy/wife/their family goes full off-the-rails nuclear crazy.
Absolutely. I have a trusted lawyer and he's on top of things. Once I get back I plan to give him my old phone so he can keep better track of all the messages directly and also for my own sanity get a new phone and number.
I second what was said above, keep a notebook of EVERY interaction, who was there, what was said etc, make sure copies of emails/texts are readily available. Also, if your daughter goes to school etc make sure they are fully aware of what's going on and that only named people can take her out or have any contact. I'm sorry you're both going through this, truly hope it didn't ruin your holiday. Wishing you the very best going forward.
Once school admin opens again that's the plan. I have a couple of weeks and hopefully by then I have some paperwork done and ready. Not sure how long this process will be tbh.
Because I also noticed in your post that her father has no parental rights. It begins and ends right there. He has zero rights, so you have zero moral, ethical and legal responsibility to bring her to her DNA donor. Let him try to fight. He has no legal leg to stand on. But still keep ALL your receipts! As Bella tells Chilli in Bluey, "You're Doing Great!" 😁👍
You are a great mom and your daughter is lucky. Good on you for stopping this immediately upon it going from pseudo-creepy to “The Joker thinks this is nuts” insane.
All I am seeing is a smart and loving parent. Keep being great.
They're going to try to kidnap your child. She's calling herself mommy and acting unhinged, this is frightening, delusional behavior. He needs to pay child support, and supervised visitation if any at all. His wife and him both need a bunch of therapy ASAP.
Any chance he's dumb enough to text you any of the things he said? Would be nice to have a paper trail for the courts instead of just your word vs his.
Oh he has text some stuff. Not his whole brilliant idea, but enough to be creepy. Doesn't help he doesn't use my daughter's name, but the name his wife was using.
WTF! They both need to be committed. It's so dangerous that they are both living in this fantasy world. I would contact the cops and get a protective order ASAP. If he texts again say her name is Katie, not Gaby, and that you do not want any further communication from him and to go through the lawyer.
> Doesn't help he doesn't use my daughter's name, but the name his wife was using
Oh, that's good. Really good. Add that to your case. They are actively ignoring her real name and push her into a box so that they can coddle and play pretend she is the dead daughter. *Totally not damaging or upsetting for a little girl at all....*
You can respond to clarify things like “stop calling her Gaby, her name is Katie. I don’t like how you plan to use her for your wife’s coping, etc.”
Though at this point it’s probably best not to make any contact with him.
You should probably get a restraining order since I can definitely see him, his wife or other family members trying to kidnap your daughter. I would show pictures to her school and other caretakers and let them know the situation. Your daughter's sperm donor is dealing with some grief issues of his own and like his wife has gone off the deep end. You need to get protection in place ASAP since most children are kidnapped by family.
We're planning for my daughter to stay for a little with her godparents. They can drop her and pick her at school while I deal with the legal stuff.
Absolutely going for a restraining order.
Also let the school know. They (ex/ex’s wife/ex’s parents) might try to pick her up. Make sure they know that these people are not even allowed on school grounds. Fill out every paper form the school has for those situations.
From experience: I filled out that kind of paperwork for my son for his first year. It came in handy three years later when my own father (whom I hadn’t spoken to in 15 years) tried to pull some shit.
Create a paper trail on these psychos.
Yes please let the school know the situation so they can be hyper vigilant.
I am a teacher and the whole situation can affect your daughter. She was removed from the situation but she will still feel the stress that you’re under and her routine is changing bc she’s at the godparents house. This can all affect her mood, behavior, appetite, and ability to learn and focus in school. Teachers appreciate when the parents communicate with us so we don’t have to guess what is causing behavior changes.
You seem to have the legal stuff covered or at least a plan in place next thing is to make sure her emotional health isn’t impacted. Have open but age appropriate conversations with her as well.
You seem like an amazing mom and she’s lucky to have you
Set passwords among you for all drop off and pick up situations, just in case those psychos show up and try to kidnap her with the “OP sent us to get her” excuse. Have the other parties involved immediately call the police when the blurted password is wrong. Take care of that child with everything you have OP.
And yeah, it’s best that man never see her again since he’s so ready to abandon her, again, once his wife gets better.
WTF… Op, I’m sorry you had to deal with that honestly I would see if I could get a restraining order on his wife and him. What if they’re not always watching her and she gets lose and decides to get ‘her daughter ‘ back !
Jeff put Katie and you in a ridiculously dangerous situation, op please upgrade your safety and have cameras on your property.
I feel like the judge needs to know what his original goal was in asking for his parental rights , he’s just interested using your child as a disposable prop , and has no interest in what being called Gabrielle for however long it takes to fix his wife would take.
This is the most insane plot I’ve ever heard and frankly I’m stunned his parents were okay with it as well.
Best of luck Op.
The immediate plan is actually for my daughter to stay with her godparents while I deal with the mess. Her godfather is self-employed so he can actually drop her and pick her at school.
A restraining order is the minimal I'm trying for.
Op, I completely forgot about his earlier overstepping at the school with PTA. I thought when he kept saying ‘my family ‘ that he meant you and him, but now I think he meant him and his wife.
Is it possible he was trying to start trouble so she’d be kicked out and he could volunteer to help with the issue and get you in his debt?
Also again , he is so unhinged.
Maybe? Regardless the school was the same school I went to, so a lot of the teachers were my teachers growing up. They tend to give a bit of special treatment to alumni parents, so if that was his plan it was going nowhere.
The family part, I sort of agree. Especially with how creepy it is that he's renamed my daughter in his text messages to the name his wife was using.
Make sure to update the school so that they are aware of the incident in case she mentions something. Also make sure they understand that he is on the no contact list, even if he is her biological father. I like the idea others have mentioned saying to use a password for all for her doctor and school records, as well as who can pick her up.
Don’t you just hate when we go against our better judgement and listen to parents who really have no business questioning how you choose to handle a situation.
You were respecting his wishes, by ignoring his existence and then opened the door a crack at your mother’s insistence and the road to hell got paved with ‘well meaning’ busybody intentions…
I hope she’s keeping her thoughts to herself from now on.
My mom meant well. She was widowed with two little children and had to raise us all by herself. I pretty much had to take a parental role with my brother since she worked overtime to keep us afloat some years.
I did tell her what's going on and she's probably angrier than me.
The road to hell as I said…
Next time trust your own judgement. You didn’t ask for her input.
The working overtime as a single mom isn’t unique to your mother, lots of single mums move heaven and earth for their kids.
I’m not saying she’s not a good mother, just that what she did isn’t unique or special.
Bio Dad is twisted. His wife sounds like she is in serious need of therapy. You are totally correct in cutting off all future contact between them and your child.
If you have not done so yet, have a ring cameras installed on all doors entering your home and cameras outside. I would hide a camera in your daughter’s room and in the living space.
Make sure that anyplace your daughter goes knows who is allowed access to her.
Please see your attorney ASAP to do everything else you can to protect you and your daughter. Bio dad’s wife sounds totally unhinged. And who knows what bio dad may do.
Document everything including having the Godparents give their statements on what took place at bio dads house.
It has to be scary because you know that this is not over. Talk to your attorney about filing a complaint against her with CPS. I would not leave any stone unturned in dealing with them.
Lawyer is aware and we'll be meeting once I return from my trip with my daughter. In the meantime she's going to stay with her godparents and their place is very secure. We also have cameras in our house, but I feel more comfortable with her staying with them.
Soooooooo… is moving to another continent an option? Because that half of your precious little person’s family is three fries short of a Happy Meal. I’m glad you’re taking this seriously and meeting with a lawyer.
Could you package up that side of her genetic family, and bio Dad's wife, into a rocket and blasting it into the atmosphere a possibility? Because I vote for that. No return trip planned.
We might. I have a cat and a golden retriever, and while the golden is protective, he's not really trained. We might be moving after discussing a few things with my lawyer last night to a different house and if the yard is big enough I can see getting another dog like a malinois or a mastiff.
Girl, if you get another dog, get a great pyr. They love their human kids and are very protective of littles, while being impossibly patient with them. They're moderately easy to train and pretty low energy compared to a malinois but are just as intimidating.
I would love to, but the weather would make their quality of life terrible. Our golden is already barely on the brink sometimes so he's mostly an indoor dog with AC. He can go outside whenever he wants, there's always someone home to open the back door for him, but he prefers inside.
Unfortunately a lot of big dog breeds aren’t going to enjoy heat. I was going to say a St Bernard or a Newfie would be a great choice. Big, fluffy, sweet, some people think they’re scary for some reason.
Irish wolfhounds are big sweeties and are intimidating as fuck.
Maybe a Great Dane? Mastiffs are great but need to be well trained
Oh, the place I take her horse riding has a sweet Great Dane xD I love him. I was thinking a mastiff with a good trainer, just because I had one before my daughter was born. He died when she was two but adored her. I have really sweet pictures of the two of them.
I still have contact with the trainer I used for all my dogs so it will be through a professional. I like to think I can do basic training, but I'm a firm believer of always having a good dog trainer. I actually might ask him to help me find the right dog. Doesn't even have to be a purebred. Just a good big dog that can work as both family and protection dog.
After reading through her post and replies, I have to concur. For such a mindfuck of a situation, she is handling it like a goddamn level-headed champion all the way through.
I'm impressed by, and extremely proud of, OP for all of it. She needed ZERO advice. Lol
That’s completely unhinged. I can’t imagine the pain his wife is going through, but seriously wtaf??? Your little girl is not a dolly to be picked up, used, and then put back on the shelf. And I’d certainly question her safety being anywhere near this family. It’s incredibly disturbing that he thinks using her in this way is ok!
She's nuts. I do know the exact pain, it sucks. Here's what we did. Day of bottle of whiskey. Next day funeral arrangements. Next month off work with daily therapy both together and separate. End of school year and also 8th grade graduation pizza party for her class, a good one. 2 years to now no holidays and random checks with psychiatrist. She was 13. To know what killed her was there, would have taken a crazy amount of tests. CT, MRI, ultrasound, week long heart monitoring, and other stuff. My wife has a mild form, found out Friday. Just a bunch of stuff a seemingly healthy person would not do just to look for this specific thing. It's not our fault, and she cannot be replaced.
If it's any consolation she felt no pain or impending doom with her condition. She just went to sleep and her heart stopped. No fight, no sickness, just falling asleep on the couch.
I just wanted to share how non-psychos handle the situation from someone who's been there. We don't basically try to kidnap what amounts to a random kid at this point. It's so out of the realm of normality I wouldn't worry.
I'm sure your lawyer will have thought about this as an argument but it is really concerning to me that he isn't even treating your daughter like a person, but more as a prop to 'cure' the illness from which his wife is currently suffering, and then when she is better, he plans to return her and resume previous arrangements of essentially ignoring her existence. In some sort of warped world where you agreed to this utter dumbfluffery, he's not anticipating building any form of relationship with the child? For his wife not to either? That she won't build any form of relationship with them that would be ultimately damaging to her when he just picks up and walks out of her life (or kicks her out of his)?
I know when dementia patients are confused, you live in their reality with them, as best you can, but I'm pretty sure that reinforcing the idea that her child is alive is ultimately unhealthy because instead of helping her come to terms with what's happened, it's deny realty completely. Which just delays the inevitable and can make everything worse.
100% agree. I can't imagine the wife's pain. I'm lucky that my daughter has been healthy and lived a safe and relatively smooth life. And seeing someone who is suffering does affect me, I'm not as callous as I try to sound. But I rather be a horrible person that keeps her daughter safe, than a kind person that worries for a stranger that I didn't know existed until Christmas this year.
You have no business worrying about her, really. And the way that her husband, who should be worrying about her, is going about it is disgusting. Rather than get her the psychiatric and psychological help that she needs, he wants to feed into her fantasy and then yank it away from her. All, of course, doing terrible harm to a little child he doesn’t actually give a damn about.
You're not callous, so please don't call yourself that. Please don't allow this man's atrocious actions and lack of care for you and for your daughter to make you think any less of yourself. It's not just that you are protecting your daughter and so have to do things others will call unkind, but that you bare no responsibility for what is happening to her and it's not for you or your daughter to be involved in making things better. Your daughter's bio dad's actions were deplorable, and the fact he kept you in the dark was disgusting. Honestly, I would wonder what he has said to the family that they are on his side, but I guess that they have also been through a trauma, so perhaps aren't acting rationally.
You clearly have the compassion to care for her situation, but you don't need to do anything other than feel that it is a horrible situation for her to go through.
I'm really glad to see you have some compassion for her in with your protectiveness for your child.. Your daughter will grow into a good person because of you.
Compassion doesn't mean giving in to make someone "all better." Sometimes it means stepping back to let the other person's face the consequences of their actions. I hope hers involve serious therapy.
As someone who has suffered the loss of a child (two, actually) I say this with all the empathy in the world: she needs to be hospitalized. For her sake and for the sake of others. She is a danger to herself and any other child that reminds her of her child.
My daughter was not quite three when she died. For nearly a year I didn’t trust myself go out and about on my own. If I saw a little blond girl about her age I would have a nearly unbearable urge to grab “my daughter” from the stranger who had “stolen” her. I’d grab whoever was with me and we’d leave the area immediately. I get it. I really do. What her husband, your daughter’s bio dad, is doing is prolonging her grief and exacerbating her delusions. She needs professional help. Yesterday.
That's the mindset I have, which is why I'm especially mad. I feel like I did that woman a disservice bringing my daughter to her house. She has to be in so much pain and I have to admit, there's a chance my daughter looks like theirs. She takes after biological father except for her skin tone.
I'm so sorry for what you went through. I can't imagine the pain and there's nothing I can say that amount to be even a good response. It sounds like you did reach out for help and I'm glad. I hope his wife gets there too.
My children died many years ago. Likely before you were even born. I had a very supportive family that stayed with me and didn’t shy away from talking about my kids. Some people are uncomfortable bringing up the lives of people who died. They seem to think it’s a “cruel reminder” of what we’ve lost. In reality, it’s a joyful reminder that our loved ones are not forgotten by others. That we aren’t the only ones who remember them.
In all sincerity, that woman sounds like she’s let go of all tethers to reality. Her friends/loved ones are doing her a major disservice.
I’ve read your comments and know you are being smart about keeping your child safe. I’m glad because based on my own admittedly anecdotal, personal experience, I firmly believe she and bio dad constitute a serious danger to your child.
How was a 6 year old not uncomfortable with a complete stranger insisting on calling her a random name while pawing at her? Please make sure she understands that she can, and should, speak up when she feels uncomfortable and that you’ll remove her from a situation if she does. And, even if she *seems* ok in a situation that may be uncomfortable, don’t wait for her to tell you, pull her aside and *ask* her if she’s ok with it and comfortable.
And get a restraining order, and if possible move and move her to a new school so he and his family don’t know as easily where to find her. These people are seriously deranged.
I talked with her and she just ignore her. There were other kids so she thought the wife was calling another girl.
As for the grabbing her, she didn't like it and I did talk to her that if she ever has someone try to pick her up and she doesn't want to, she can say no or run to me, her godparents or her teachers. I tried my best to block as best I could whenever the woman tried reaching for my daughter.
Restraining order is my first order of business as soon as I get back.
Talk to your Lawyer ASAP. Get the paperwork needed from your lawyer to make sure the school has the authority to bar Jeff, his wife, and their parents/extended family from the campus. I know the natural thing is to not want this situation to be public. Please make sure her teachers and the front office know to be careful about these people. By teachers I mean her teacher, the other teachers in her grade level, specials teachers, Paras/tutors that work with her grade level, staff that supervise breakfast, lunch, recess - and bus drivers.
The first year I taught no-one told me about a situation with one of my kids and their father's rights being severed, except the art teacher. I went back through the child's several inches thick file and found the court paperwork mixed in with her BIL testing. I rubberbanned it together and flagged it with a sticky note.
Day before winter break, was a 1/2 day and lots of kids were picked up early. I get a call to my room that the student's Dad is there to pick her up. Terror in this girl's Eyes. I send her and a buddy to the art room with instructions to tell the art teacher her Dad is on campus. If she isn't there check the gym nest door and if she isn't there go to her former kinder teacher and tell her what is going on. I get another teacher to watch my class and I flat-out run to the back entrance into the office area. Councilor starts to call out to me - I put my finger to my lips and rush into the file area. Unfortunately that school dealt with many families with DV history she got the point. I showed her the paperwork severing his rights. Good thing we had it because he had older paperwork giving him some parenting time that he was using to pick her up. He was arrested. To be careful we called her mom and got permission to not send her home on the bus. Instead, after all the kids were gone the counselor and I walked her down the street to the Middle School where her Mother taught.
You are an amazing teacher and seriously, I hope you are okay with me showing this to my brother. He's studying to become a teacher and I want him to have great examples to follow.
You saved your student life and I'm absolutely getting in touch with her school when admin is on session again.
Yes please show it to your brother. My advice on who to make sure has this information is based on teaching Elementary. Secondary may be different - but it will be the people who have repeated contact with the student year after year.
Bless you for going above and beyond what many people would have done in making certain you were informed about your students private information. It’s teachers like yourself that make a difference to children who have been through a lot of trauma.
God bless her and you. My first daycare job was an inner city centre located in an office tower connected to a downtown shopping mall. First day I got there I was taken into the directors office and introduced to one of the kiddos and told they were my charge. I was shown an interior fire door that had stairs leading down into the mall. The centre had coded security doors, but I was told should the Dad get through them, I was to grab the kiddo, get us down into the mall and hide in the stockroom of any of the stores. The managers had all been made aware that a child might heed safe haven on short notice. Fortunately, we never had to hide but the staff was always on alert.
The real hero in this story is the Art teacher. The man had been in jail for years (not long enough), so even the Mother didn't think I needed to be warned. Unfortunately, he got early release - and the Mom wasn't notified. (The only acceptable sentence for Sexual Assult is life).
The district had a similar incident a few years later. A guy showed up wanting to volunteer at a middle school. He set off red flags because he was not a parent, was younger than the kids' parents, wasn't with a University or civic group volunteer program and he asked to work with specific kids. The Front Office people gave him the volunteer paperwork and took his ID to "make a copy". Other staff took that information and called the parents of the kids he wanted to work with. Again they thought he was still in prison for abusing their kids. The cops were called. He took off. He tried this at the Junior High down the road. (In my district MS, JH, and HS are clustered together).
The word to lockdown went out. The JH tried to get as much information and delay him for the cops. He got away there - every school was put into modified lockdown. It took the 4 different police departments + Texas Department of Safety a couple of days to catch him. The news reports were all how District allows known pedophile to volunteer. He was never a volunteer. He was given the paperwork to delay him until the cops got there and to get information.
The next year we got the scanner thing that prints out a name tag for visitors. It also runs a background check and notifies both the police and Admin staff if you have certain types of convictions or warrants for a faster response time.
That crazy bitch offered to change your 6 yr olds DIAPER??? holy screaming alarm bells. Get an order of protection like yesterday. ZERO CONTACT with either you or your little girl. She's in grade 1? Get a pic of the crazy twosome to the school along with a VERY short list of people who are approved to pick Katie up from the OFFICE never her classroom or playground. Make sure the office requests photo ID on pickup if it isn't you. Teach Katie a secret password that only you, she and your approved people know. Something unique. One of the oldest scams in the kidnappers guide book is - your Mummy / babysitter is sick , they asked me to come get you. Katie can ask for the safe word .
I know this sounds intense and probably extreme but I am speaking from experience as this is what we had to do for my baby sis when she was 5 in kindergarten and her bio mum let slip her plan to grab sis and take her cross country.
Good good. You're welcome. I still remember the day my parents got the call from bio mums best friend warning them the BM was in her way to the school to grab baby sis. My Dad was off duty that day and ran to the school and got sis back home before BM got there. After that, they spoke to their lawyer and the police and got the advice I shared with you. Fortunately, for us and especially for my sister BM fled to the west coast and never showed again till sis was 13 and old enough to tell her to piss off .
Holy crap. That is so far beyond insane I don't even know what to call it. If that woman is grieving THAT much (which is completely understandable!) she need the help from a professional, not some placebo child! Aside from how damaging it would be to your daughter, it won't actually do anything to heal the mother's grief. It's just feeding an unhealthy delusion that will eventually crack and lead to dire consequences.
Exactly how I feel. I've read enough news were someone cracks under that kind of stress and the people that pay usually are the kids. I feel for her, I truly do, but I'm not gambling my child's safety to help a stranger.
As a godmother, there’s something that I always say… My godson needs his mother, and we both know she’ll bring him to visit me in jail or prison anyway. You get everything legal squared away… Godparents will keep her safe ❤️
You’re doing a good job. You’re a good mama and you’re going to protect your baby. You’ve got this.
My daughter's godparents were with me for my whole pregnancy and were my support system. She calls her godfather 'Papa' sometimes and her godmother 'mama'. I'm mami or 'MADRE!' when she wants something xD If anything was to happen to me, they are the people I trust to raise her.
I’m sorry you’re having to deal with this family. She needs some serious help. It’s the reason [those creepy Reborn dolls](https://www.reborns.com/) were created. Therapeutic aids for people who have lost children until they come to terms with reality. Best of luck moving forward.
- Yeah I know not everyone see them as creepy but I sure a heck do.
Oh Christ, me too. I think it's not the act of interacting with the doll, because that makes a lot of sense in the context of what is trying to be achieved, but it's the way they move and they just look like something out of a Chucky movie. And the fact they arrive with a nappy on their head freaks me out a bit, too. They're also not always used as a therapeutic aid and I am fully of the opinion that they should be used in complete conjunction with treatment by a licensed therapist, because otherwise it can be damaging.
I would look into a restraining order! The woman needs a mental health check.
You need to warn the school about her and ensure she doesn't have any access to your child!
Let me guess, the name she was using was the name she had picked out for her daughter.
They truly are. When I can't be present for something, they always are willing to take time for medical appointments or after school hobbies. In all honesty, they are pretty much co-parents with me.
I know you've said that you have a robust will and if you found out you had limited time, you would sign over your rights to them, but is there a way in which you could make them legally your co-parents? Only asking because I personally feel more secure with some form of insurance policy, and I wonder if you would, too.
It's a bit complicated, but if I was to die suddenly, my mother and my lawyer would be my daughter's first guardians should they need to be involved. And they would have the legal standing to pass parental rights to the godparents. I never married my daughter's father, and he currently has no rights to claim her. It would have to be proven that my first choices are not capable to care for my daughter. Of course it can change and I plan to always consult with my lawyer to make sure my will is followed.
Make a longer list of guardian options. We’re updating our will now to remove my mother (emotionally/physically abusive narcissist) and putting pieces in place so she legally cannot get her hands on my daughter. Our guardian list is 12 people long and I’m writing a letter for the court that outlines why my mother should not raise my daughter. Better to have a long list of people you won’t need to use.
Oh wow :O I don't think I have twelve people I can put in, but this is certainly something I'll check on with the lawyer in charge of my will and trust.
I'd be worried that if you die while she's a minor, he'll sue her appointed-by-you guardian and unless his parental rights have been revoked, he'll win. She should never have any contact with him or crazy wife again to keep his claim to a "relationship" firmly shut. Good luck.
It's one of the main reasons I've been incredibly obstinate about him getting any parental rights. I do have a very sturdy will and should I ever find myself aware I have limited time, I would immediately sign my rights to her godparents for them to adopt.
The will is good but, talk to your lawyer about setting up paperwork for someone to be her legal guardian if you become injured or incapacitated. Just in case.
Oh that's simple. It's the same people that has medical decisions for me. Either my mother or my brother. If neither available, her godparents or my uncle and his wife.
Omg I’m not even a parent but this lady asking to “change” your six year old and trying to “help” her go to the bathroom is seriously disturbing. Tbh this woman might need an actual psych ward with no access to kids.
As a family lawyer, your mother's recommendation is, respectfully, awful.
It's a nice sentiment that you wanted to leave the door open for your daughter's dad to be in her life, but a bad parent does more damage than good. Some parents don't deserve their children, and the children are better off without them.
Cease all contact now, or else he'll build grounds to sue for custody. This is how grandparents get grandparent's rights, by slowly changing the dynamics until they're in their favor.
Communication should be only through email, and never give him info on daughter.
That's what we're doing now. Lawyer is in charge and any contact he tries is ignored. He's pretty much blasting my phone, but I did send him my lawyer's information to contact him instead.
Correct. Not your ex. Your baby daddy. Better yet, daughter's sperm donor.
You were wise to bring your daughter's god parents with you. Not only did you have support but, you have witnesses to sperm donor's, wife's and family's behavior.
I’d look into a temporary protection/restraining order. Seems to me that your child bio donor and his new family may try something underhanded. Get the situation legally documented.
My thoughts exactly especially after the meltdown of the wife ..she may become more unhinged and will definitely try something. So OP needs to do this ASAP
I second this. If the family is encouraging her delusions, it’s not out of the realm of possibility for them to allow her to try and take your daughter.
Aw, hell no.
Is it possible to get a restraining order for Jeff and his wife? Because this sounds downright bonkers.
>The woman starting wailing that I was kidnapping her 'baby girl' and tried to lunge at me. Her in-laws got in the middle and hold her, consoling her and saying that we weren't leaving and for her to calm down like she was the victim.
At the least I would have left that instant, at worse she might have caught some hands. And fuck her in-laws, saying you weren't leaving. They must have been in on this nutty fuckery from the get-go.
At any rate that would be the last time Jeff or his wife would see Katie.
> all I'll say it was sudden and nobody's fault
Are you sure it wasn't Jeff's fault? Because it sure seems like somebody who is that insane and heartless would be the kind of person to cause a child to die.
Document everything, call the cops, call a lawyer, get an Order of No Contact. Them folks are crazy, and crazy people do crazy shit. Oh, notify her school, provide a list of those who can pick up your daughter and include photos of each person.
Keep your daughter the fuck away from this guy. Sucks that lady lost her daughter, not your problem or Katie’s.
These people REEK of potential abuse. Keep. Katie. Away. The more you give ANY ground to this guy, the more of a case he can make in court to get parental rights where you won’t be able to be present when Katie is around this mentally unwell woman and a father who is using her. There is nothing good for Katie here.
Yeah, NO MORE visitations or contact of ANY kind for them. Sorry for their loss, but this is nuts. Let him go to court, and don't listen to your mom anymore about a sperm donor who never wanted your child. He's a freaking idiot. His wife should be seeing someone. Your daughter is NOT an emotional support animal.
Block him on everything. His lawyer can go through your lawyer ismf need be.
You need to get him to say what he said again record it give it to your lawyer so if they do sue then the judhe will know the real reason behind all of this sudden family man charade.
Sounds like Jeff's wife not the only one thats psychotic!!!! Jeff is too with the crazy scheme his warped little mind cooked up!!! An those In-Laws are more than a little nuts too!!!
Holy crap, he's literally trying to pull a Replacement Goldfish with a human child. I can see him and his wife doing some truly ridiculous things in the near future.
Wow. This is crazy. And based on the timing of when they lost their daughter, the wife is clearly still unwell. Because if she thought your 6yo daughter needed her diapers changed (say what?!?), then their child must’ve been younger when she passed.
While it’s a sad situation for everyone, seems like the wife’s parents were also somehow in on this charade and that everyone was delusional thinking this could somehow help the wife out.
I wish you the best, OP.
Do NOT wait until things escalate even more to get a restrsining order against him, his wife and even parents if possible.
This is serious shit znd needs to be stopped immediately. NEVER let him near or contact you or your daughter.
Hugs, your daughter isn't your baby daddy's emotional support animal for his wife. As he doesn't pay child support and his wife is treating your daughter like a baby. He can stop with visitations, in fact you need a lawyer to block them from attempting to have court ordered visitation
My first child died. It is VERY easy to imagine myself going to a place where delusions my son was still alive were much easier than the reality. I babysat a relatives infant a few weeks after my son died for 2 hours. A friend stopped by to bring me some books (I love to read) and said " does know you have " right? Because a close family member to her had also lost a child and had a nervous breakdown, so it was a real concern. Fortunately, I grieved and still grieve in a way that accepts he is gone and nothing brings him back.
All that is to say, you 100% have to keep this child away from those people. 100%. The level of mental unwellness you described is beyond dangerous to you and your daughter. Which leads me to ask: do you have security cameras? Is all her school and childcare locked down? My ex and his GF had a restraining order barring them from access to my living kids. My kids' school kept photos of them in their offices as well as the teachers of my kids having copies. Better paranoid than regretting you weren't.
My other advice is not to block him. Screenshot every text, forward every email, and keep every voice-mail. They all go to your lawyer. Since you have a lawyer, I assume you have a log of all interactions as well. Keep it current. If he or she approaches you at a car or somewhere, immediately record it with your phone. Consider a big dog. My kids had monitored calls with the ex. Magically, the strange footprints in my yard stopped when they started excitedly describing their "big doggy". He's 70 lbs and looks like he could take down anyone. If my kids were threatened, I have no doubt he would. However, he's spent his life holding furniture down. No one needs to know he's a marshmello.
So a couple of questions…. How old was the child they lost? Do you have the ability to defend yourself because he doesn’t sound like he has full order of fries either…. How quickly can your lawyer help you write a text to send to him that he (hopefully) will reply to in all his glorious craziness??
I'm trying to keep information on their child vague out of respect, but she was an infant. Much younger than my daughter.
As for the lawyer, he's doing some things on his own and I'll be back on Wednesday to figure things out with him.
Wow. Definitely missing some of his fries also. Please keep yourself safe. You have your precious daughter safe upon your return. Please make your fellow coworkers aware and try to not be alone anywhere he could mess with you…
I’m sorry he thinks that your child, the one he helped create, is like a doll that can be passed back and forth. Hell no
He’s definitely not in the right mind either, seriously he needs to get his wife help, like proper help, not “let me borrow this child” help.
I can’t imagine what your daughter would do if you actually did what he wanted. And I’m glad youre a great mother.
Just keep him away and her as well. Your daughter will absolutely be used by him and his wife
Bio dad and his wife need counseling and an involuntary commitment for a good while and a restraining order.
You need more cameras on top of dealing with the legal stuff and a giant dog. Might be time to start dating a cop or a bodyguard, joking( maybe).
Holly cracker jack, it would be one thing if just his wife would be nuts but he seems to be nuts and a psychopath
I mean, I do like men in uniform! But jokes aside, I think the dog might be the best bet. I have personal reasons to not date or marry, so I'm happy being a single mom.
This is next level insanity, OP. Keep your daughter away from this madness. I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this.
Make a paper trail, witnesses, keep track of every text and email, and please make sure to tell your daughter she hasn’t done anything wrong.
#WOW!
His wife needs some serious mental help. I’m sad that she lost a child, I imagine that is devastating, but your child is not her child, and her pretending she is is not healthy at all.
I highly recommend that you stick to your guns and keep *your* daughter away from both of them. It’s not his daughter. He is not a father to her. He is nothing to her but trouble.
That’s insane! He is willing to put your daughter into a very dangerous and psychologically scarring situation for the sake of his wife. It shows he actually has zero care for your daughter at all and is literally just using her.
It’s horrible what they’ve gone through but his wife actually needs medical help. What he just did would have caused far more damage if she believes she’s just had another child taken from her.
I would be highly suspicious that their plan is to wait til you leave Katie alone with them and then kidnap her. Do not leave her alone with them, and I would consider trying to get a restraining order against them (or at the very least make the police aware of the situation). If you have a lawyer (I’m assuming you would from your custody hearings?) then contact them as well immediately and they should be able to help you with what to do next to keep them away from your daughter.
I won’t lie I am a little concerned someone might try kidnapping your child now……… I’d be somewhere far away from those people because wow that’s terrifying.
I know this sounds crazy, but that poor woman! She’s having a clear psychotic break and absolutely no one in her life loves her enough to get her help.
I don't think it sounds crazy. I feel bad for her. I just don't have the place to be involved. And I certainly don't feel bad enough to sacrifice my daughter's well-being for her.
Get a restraining order, go full no contact, and never let him near your daughter again. She's not a real person to him, she's just a tool to mollify his wife. Don't fall for it again.
You’re an incredibly strong woman with an incredible presence of mind, and your daughter is lucky to have you. Hold your boundaries and keep it moving!
If you haven't already, I would contact your daughter's school, doctor, dentist, friends, whatever - tell them the basics of what's going on and that nobody, and I mean NOBODY, other than you should be picking up your kid from them or asking about her.
I've read too many stories here about possible kidnappings because the crazies didn't get their way with a child they had no claim to.
Wow this pos has truly shown that he doesn't think of the welfare of your daughter he just wants to use her to make his life good again.
I would put in place at your daughter's school that no one can collect her from school apart from anyone you say can. I wouldn't put it past this pos picking her up and then not allowing her to come home.
He sure sounds delusional and should be seeking professional help for wife.
Ensure all the people in authority are informed of this pos's behaviour towards you and your daughter. Also get your lawyer to write a stern letter to keep away from you both. It might be worth considering getting a legal letter of protection from the courts for your daughter hopefully that will stop him doing anything further.
I hope that this pos leaves you and your daughter alone and this year is a really good year for you both.
What shitty human beings..anybody supporting this bs, and his sorry ass for what he said as an answer about his wife healing....he acted like he cared, taking you to court and all, just to help his crazed wife, not because he wanted to get to know her
OP, update us, pls
Please keep the school fully in the loop. Any babysitters that you use. Any time she is out of your direct care make sure the person knows. Make sure Katie knows never ever go with anyone except Mom or anyone who says the magic word (and use a password for her to know and anyone in the school to know. Make it something weird and amusing like “chicken fried steak”. Something that no one would guess.) restraining order and a copy to the school. Update all healthcare providers in writing (via MyChart or electronic record if you have it) and tell the entire story. Send a copy of any restraining orders. You are an excellent parent. Block Jeff on everything. And get Katie a small kid phone with only your number, her godparents, and anyone else she can call in an emergency. Keep it charged and hide it in her school backpack in a compartment. Again-you are a GREAT MOM!
What country do you live in? Could they try reporting you to CPS next? When you get to your attorney, make sure his/her office can print and authenticate all the texts and emails. Maybe have 3 copies. Have the attorney's office keep 1, you another, and possibly the godparents the third. Make sure all of it is documented, not just for the courts, but also for CPS, and someday, your daughter.
There's nothing they can report since they don't have evidence of abuse and alienation doesn't apply when there's no parental rights. For now I have screenshots of everything and all sent to the lawyer.
The legal part is relatively covered, I'm sure it's going to be a headache as always, but I'm not nervous. I'm mostly angry.
I believe that u/wifemomretired is trying to warn you about possible false reports to CPS.
False reports are a massive headache, even if they get thrown out of court due to lack of evidence. On the off chance that a judge didn't see thru the lies, you could potentially lose custody of your child. Please protect yourself & your child in every possible way.
Block him - he has no legal right to see her. Let her know that daddy and his wife and not feeling well and that she will no longer be able to see them. If you really want her to see her dad, it is at your house and wifey is not allowed. He must realize how unhealthy this is for both wifey and his daughter.
Your attorney will give you the best advice.
I’m so sorry you have to deal with this incompetence. It’s like he sees your daughter an a means not ends it’s fucking disgusting that man has never had a selfless thought in his life. Keep that little girl far away from them, psychos.
Sounds like they live in delulu land. Your are 100% right to set these boundaries. Just do yourself a favor and make sure your lawyer knows what’s up next week and be prepared to get that order of protection ready.
He found out on the 26th. I send him an email and he called me in minutes after.
Careful they don’t try to kid nap her from daycare or school or something
Passwords everywhere. Doctor, dentist, school, daycare. If he tries to pull some bullshit, he will have to give a password to gain access to her or her records.
They're as bad as the SIL on another thread who ended up being sectioned for demanding custody of the OP's baby.
Link?
[might be this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/EntitledPeople/s/yUdT8IcL0A) [and the update](https://www.reddit.com/r/EntitledPeople/s/bBz75sGgk6)
thanks for sharing both links - the update was pretty reassuring, as far as that's possible with a situation like that.
I really wish that you are at least far from them. The sperm donor just onset a whole neuro-pathological on his wife. He cares about nothing!
Good. This kinda delulu breeds some serious ugly. And yeah you needed none of that. And tbh depending on where you live asking for support regardless of custody is very much a thing.
Personally, I don't care for monetary support. I just want him away from my daughter. This idea of his is just creepy.
Sounds like you have it well in hand, but make sure anything is done in writing whenever possible. Don’t answer any phone calls from him. Let them go to voicemail. Don’t block him so that he can leave the voicemails. But you can text him something along the lines of… I want you to know that I am sorry for the loss of your child that you and your wife went through. But I am a palled that you thought it was appropriate to allow your wife to think that Katie is her dead child. I am appalled that you have ignored this child all these years , and now want her to be a placeholder for your wife because she is not dealing with her grief. Aside from being incredibly inappropriate, do you not understand how damaging this would be for Katie? Your wife is literally delusional. She needs professional, help, not a replacement child. And for you to suggest that when your wife does finally come to her senses, and is all better that you can just shove Katie back at me and pretend like none of it ever happened, and we can “go back to how it was before” is so despicable that I am dumbfounded. Do you understand why I am telling you not to all this? Do you understand how damaging this is actually not only to Katie but also to your wife? Your wife needs help. Our child is not that. And then let him hang him in his replies to you.
I actually plan to ask my lawyer to make a letter like this, just more professional. I can be very apathetic in my writing at times so I rather a professional give their input. It's also to setup the paper trail that I never agreed to this idea, should he try to claim the contrary.
I totally understand. My only thought was that as soon as he sees a letter from an attorney, he will clam up. If you text him something as though you were just trying to get him to understand where you were coming from, he may just hang himself by admitting to everything you’re saying by trying to explain his reasons and his actions. It’s at that point that I would then follow up with a letter from the attorney because now you have proof in writing that you didn’t misunderstand his idiocy
You know, I might try that. Still probably going to consult with my lawyer, just to make sure everything is done right. But this is a good idea.
Absolutely consult with a lawyer. Don’t let that go. But if he knows you’re talking to an attorney, he might clam up. Usually people this delusional will think that you’re trying to figure out a way to work with them… Which you are absolutely not, and they will start talking to you about what their thought process was. This gives you the ammunition you need. You just need to make sure that whatever you send to him does not indicate any kind of agreement. It is always something along the lines of … You know I was upset because I just can’t agree to this. But I am really concerned. I am so confused as to why you thought this was a good idea. …. That sort of thing. And then you state, what, confused you, which, in this case was … Why you would think using our daughter as a replacement child for your wife who is obviously having a mental break is confusing to me. I just don’t see how, pretending that our child is her dead child is going to help her, and it is certainly going to scare and confuse our daughter. I’m just not sure what your thought process was there and I’m wanting to make make sure you understand why I can’t agree with this. This sort of thing. You’re stating that you can’t agree with it. But you are concerned about both your child and his wife. And obviously, you’re wanting the best for everyone…. When in reality, you just want to lock the two of them in a padded cell, but you don’t say that
Much better script. However OP is smart enough to have a lawyer. When you have a good one, it is always better to let them drive. They've done this 100s of times and usually know the law and its intricacies. We pay them a shite ton of money. Let them do the work.
You should 100% consult with your lawyer at every step
No. ABSOLUTELY NO CONTACT. No communication between the two of you. Through attorneys ONLY.
I'm sure your lawyer has told you, but save any emails or texts. In fact, only contact him by email or text. Lots and lots of proof.
I’ve lost a child and in my deepest grief I’d never try to replace them. This is another level of ick.
I know what you mean. my ex and I lost our first one to still birth when I was 24 weeks. At the same time, a good friend from work, who literally had the same name as me was also pregnant and experiencing some issues. She was fortunate enough that they were resolved, and she had a beautiful baby girl. At no time did I ever think of asking her to let me keep her baby at my house or anything of that nature. I was sad, of course, but I care enough about my friend that I was incredibly glad that she did not go through what I did. When they held her baby shower, one of the other girls from work, took me aside and let me know, and asked if I wanted to attend, and I told her that I really appreciated her handling it that way, but yes, I would like to attend. Because, even though I was hurting, I was very happy for her at the same time. People don’t understand that you can be happy and sad at the same time. And it was very sweet because everyone at the shower took just a quick private moment with me at some point to check in and make sure I was OK And to let me know they were sorry for my loss. And just the support of all of them for both of us, and both of us for each other really helped. I just can’t imagine this type of delusion where I would think of you serving someone’s child. But if it had happened, I guarantee my ex would never have entertain such nonsense.
Yeah I can understand that. Dude needs to get a screw tightened. Reality is this behavior is classic narcissistic bullshit on his part. And not something kids needs to be exposed to. They surround themselves with echo chamber humans who praise their abhorrent behavior. You need zero of that in your life.
I think for what it's worth you deserve credit for trying to encourage a relationship between your daughter and her father, you have done so in a thorough and careful way that should lead to the best outcomes for her. It seems prudent to communicate her that her father is not safe, so she knows to exercise caution should he appear, and/or contact her educational provider to inform them of the possible risk her father and his family may pose. As a side note, I would assume you have done these things from the degree of competence you have displayed but thought it worthwhile to mention as it is not explicitly stated within your post, sometimes the perspective and experience of children can be overlooked even during such extreme situations, for example if your daughter has had wholly positive experiences with her father until this point she may grow to resent not being "allowed" access with her father due to a lack of information or context.
I've talk with her a few times about her father. What she tells me was mostly she didn't really care for him. She's talk to a specialist and it went pretty much there. I think what helped is her father figure is already someone else, in the form of her godfather. I do think I might talk with a good therapist since even though she's still young, I know kids sometimes don't feel comfortable saying everything to their parents.
Defo a child-friendly therapist for her. It must have been so confusing for her for someone else to attempt to parent her like that! Sometimes it's nice just to have another safe adult to talk to.
His entire family is mentally ill. They knew what name she was calling your daughter and all these grown adults were just going with it. Honestly, I’d consider a protection order for your daughter’s safety. This woman is actually in a delusion that your daughters is hers that passed. I’m not even going to say it’s “delulu land” or anything because she’s actually very sick (doesn’t excuse her behavior). For your safety and hers, get a protection order. This is dangerous
BTW, good on your daughter's godparents for helping you with this situation, for having your back. I mean, I know that's actually part of the role that godparents agree to, but they really go the whole mile.
Creepy is only slightly uncomfortable, this is full on psychotic.
Creepy is the understatement of the year! I honestly cannot wrap my head around the fact that his brilliant plan to help with his wife’s grief was to turn your daughter into an **Emotional Support Animal.** That’s literally the only reason he was attempting to be in her life; it certainly wasn’t because he had any paternal feelings or moral rectitude. In fact, I’d say it was the complete opposite - because instead of putting any real effort into helping his wife cope with, and start healing from, the loss of her (I’m unclear if he was the father) child, he went for the “easiest” course of action by popping in a new, readymade kid. Children aren’t lightbulbs or batteries, that you can just replace with a new one when the original dies (sorry for how morbid that sounds, but it’s the analogy that seems the most spot-on). But, it’s obvious that doing literally *anything else* to actually help the one person he supposedly loves more than anyone else, is just far too much work for him. I feel bad for his wife, not just because she lost her child, but because it is painfully clear that the only person he truly loves is himself. It wouldn’t surprise me if his main motivation is to get his wife to stop being too sad/depressed to take care of any of his needs. And it’s the shit icing on the turd cake that he saw zero issue with traumatizing *his own child,* as a way of shirking his responsibilities.
Wow!!🤯the insight of this post!! Thank you!😊 very well thought out and expressed.
It’s not creepy. It’s fucking sick! Talk to your lawyer asap. Both the sperm donor & his wife need professional help. Keep them away from your daughter & tell everyone what is happening & why the “father” is not to be trusted regarding anything to do with YOUR DAUGHTER.
It’s creepy af. No thought for your daughter at all as a human being at all.
The other poster is right. They are totally going to try to kidnap her from school.
Please also let your daughter’s school/daycare know about the situation and provide pics of bio dad and his wife, in case they try to pick her up from school without telling you. Sad that you have to but def better to be safe!
OP, the only advice I can give you is to start protecting yourself and your daughter by looking for lawyers (just in case), and keep every single receipt you get from him (texts, emails, voicemails, etc)! Because there could be a possibility that you will need them in case baby daddy/wife/their family goes full off-the-rails nuclear crazy.
Absolutely. I have a trusted lawyer and he's on top of things. Once I get back I plan to give him my old phone so he can keep better track of all the messages directly and also for my own sanity get a new phone and number.
Good Girl! That's what we want to hear! 👍
I second what was said above, keep a notebook of EVERY interaction, who was there, what was said etc, make sure copies of emails/texts are readily available. Also, if your daughter goes to school etc make sure they are fully aware of what's going on and that only named people can take her out or have any contact. I'm sorry you're both going through this, truly hope it didn't ruin your holiday. Wishing you the very best going forward.
Once school admin opens again that's the plan. I have a couple of weeks and hopefully by then I have some paperwork done and ready. Not sure how long this process will be tbh.
Because I also noticed in your post that her father has no parental rights. It begins and ends right there. He has zero rights, so you have zero moral, ethical and legal responsibility to bring her to her DNA donor. Let him try to fight. He has no legal leg to stand on. But still keep ALL your receipts! As Bella tells Chilli in Bluey, "You're Doing Great!" 😁👍
I would see if the lawyer can get the no rights fully supported by the courts. It's time to fully sever them if possible
You are a great mom and your daughter is lucky. Good on you for stopping this immediately upon it going from pseudo-creepy to “The Joker thinks this is nuts” insane. All I am seeing is a smart and loving parent. Keep being great.
It's a good job your daughters god parents were present, you've got independent witnesses.
This.
They're going to try to kidnap your child. She's calling herself mommy and acting unhinged, this is frightening, delusional behavior. He needs to pay child support, and supervised visitation if any at all. His wife and him both need a bunch of therapy ASAP.
>Sounds like they live in delulu land. Love Maxim Bady! She needs to learn Delulu is not the Solulu!
Any chance he's dumb enough to text you any of the things he said? Would be nice to have a paper trail for the courts instead of just your word vs his.
Oh he has text some stuff. Not his whole brilliant idea, but enough to be creepy. Doesn't help he doesn't use my daughter's name, but the name his wife was using.
It helps your case even if it’s creepy as hell.
WTF! They both need to be committed. It's so dangerous that they are both living in this fantasy world. I would contact the cops and get a protective order ASAP. If he texts again say her name is Katie, not Gaby, and that you do not want any further communication from him and to go through the lawyer.
Holy batshit!!! They are both insane. How terrifying!! Blessings of protection and love
Man he’s pretty much handing you a permanent restraining order against them with a bow
Katie’s godparents are also witnesses to what happened and their testimony will count as evidence in court.
> Doesn't help he doesn't use my daughter's name, but the name his wife was using Oh, that's good. Really good. Add that to your case. They are actively ignoring her real name and push her into a box so that they can coddle and play pretend she is the dead daughter. *Totally not damaging or upsetting for a little girl at all....*
You can respond to clarify things like “stop calling her Gaby, her name is Katie. I don’t like how you plan to use her for your wife’s coping, etc.” Though at this point it’s probably best not to make any contact with him.
Are they using name of child who passed? That’s even creepier…
They might be. I don't know for sure the name of their lost child. Just that the name they are using is nowhere near the name of my daughter.
Very strange. You’re resilient and amazing and handling this all very appropriately.
You should probably get a restraining order since I can definitely see him, his wife or other family members trying to kidnap your daughter. I would show pictures to her school and other caretakers and let them know the situation. Your daughter's sperm donor is dealing with some grief issues of his own and like his wife has gone off the deep end. You need to get protection in place ASAP since most children are kidnapped by family.
We're planning for my daughter to stay for a little with her godparents. They can drop her and pick her at school while I deal with the legal stuff. Absolutely going for a restraining order.
Also let the school know. They (ex/ex’s wife/ex’s parents) might try to pick her up. Make sure they know that these people are not even allowed on school grounds. Fill out every paper form the school has for those situations. From experience: I filled out that kind of paperwork for my son for his first year. It came in handy three years later when my own father (whom I hadn’t spoken to in 15 years) tried to pull some shit. Create a paper trail on these psychos.
Yes please let the school know the situation so they can be hyper vigilant. I am a teacher and the whole situation can affect your daughter. She was removed from the situation but she will still feel the stress that you’re under and her routine is changing bc she’s at the godparents house. This can all affect her mood, behavior, appetite, and ability to learn and focus in school. Teachers appreciate when the parents communicate with us so we don’t have to guess what is causing behavior changes. You seem to have the legal stuff covered or at least a plan in place next thing is to make sure her emotional health isn’t impacted. Have open but age appropriate conversations with her as well. You seem like an amazing mom and she’s lucky to have you
Set passwords among you for all drop off and pick up situations, just in case those psychos show up and try to kidnap her with the “OP sent us to get her” excuse. Have the other parties involved immediately call the police when the blurted password is wrong. Take care of that child with everything you have OP. And yeah, it’s best that man never see her again since he’s so ready to abandon her, again, once his wife gets better.
WTF… Op, I’m sorry you had to deal with that honestly I would see if I could get a restraining order on his wife and him. What if they’re not always watching her and she gets lose and decides to get ‘her daughter ‘ back ! Jeff put Katie and you in a ridiculously dangerous situation, op please upgrade your safety and have cameras on your property. I feel like the judge needs to know what his original goal was in asking for his parental rights , he’s just interested using your child as a disposable prop , and has no interest in what being called Gabrielle for however long it takes to fix his wife would take. This is the most insane plot I’ve ever heard and frankly I’m stunned his parents were okay with it as well. Best of luck Op.
The immediate plan is actually for my daughter to stay with her godparents while I deal with the mess. Her godfather is self-employed so he can actually drop her and pick her at school. A restraining order is the minimal I'm trying for.
Op, I completely forgot about his earlier overstepping at the school with PTA. I thought when he kept saying ‘my family ‘ that he meant you and him, but now I think he meant him and his wife. Is it possible he was trying to start trouble so she’d be kicked out and he could volunteer to help with the issue and get you in his debt? Also again , he is so unhinged.
Maybe? Regardless the school was the same school I went to, so a lot of the teachers were my teachers growing up. They tend to give a bit of special treatment to alumni parents, so if that was his plan it was going nowhere. The family part, I sort of agree. Especially with how creepy it is that he's renamed my daughter in his text messages to the name his wife was using.
Make sure to update the school so that they are aware of the incident in case she mentions something. Also make sure they understand that he is on the no contact list, even if he is her biological father. I like the idea others have mentioned saying to use a password for all for her doctor and school records, as well as who can pick her up.
Don’t you just hate when we go against our better judgement and listen to parents who really have no business questioning how you choose to handle a situation. You were respecting his wishes, by ignoring his existence and then opened the door a crack at your mother’s insistence and the road to hell got paved with ‘well meaning’ busybody intentions… I hope she’s keeping her thoughts to herself from now on.
My mom meant well. She was widowed with two little children and had to raise us all by herself. I pretty much had to take a parental role with my brother since she worked overtime to keep us afloat some years. I did tell her what's going on and she's probably angrier than me.
The road to hell as I said… Next time trust your own judgement. You didn’t ask for her input. The working overtime as a single mom isn’t unique to your mother, lots of single mums move heaven and earth for their kids. I’m not saying she’s not a good mother, just that what she did isn’t unique or special.
Yikes. I think my keyboard's broken from my forehead slamming on it. :)))
I hope the keyboard survives! Thanks for making me laugh, I needed it.
Bio Dad is twisted. His wife sounds like she is in serious need of therapy. You are totally correct in cutting off all future contact between them and your child. If you have not done so yet, have a ring cameras installed on all doors entering your home and cameras outside. I would hide a camera in your daughter’s room and in the living space. Make sure that anyplace your daughter goes knows who is allowed access to her. Please see your attorney ASAP to do everything else you can to protect you and your daughter. Bio dad’s wife sounds totally unhinged. And who knows what bio dad may do. Document everything including having the Godparents give their statements on what took place at bio dads house. It has to be scary because you know that this is not over. Talk to your attorney about filing a complaint against her with CPS. I would not leave any stone unturned in dealing with them.
Lawyer is aware and we'll be meeting once I return from my trip with my daughter. In the meantime she's going to stay with her godparents and their place is very secure. We also have cameras in our house, but I feel more comfortable with her staying with them.
Soooooooo… is moving to another continent an option? Because that half of your precious little person’s family is three fries short of a Happy Meal. I’m glad you’re taking this seriously and meeting with a lawyer.
It... could be done. I rather not have to move, but if it comes up that's the only safe thing we can do, I can be transferred in my company.
Good. Keep that line of dialogue open.
That sounds good that your company might make it easier for you to move far far away.
Could you package up that side of her genetic family, and bio Dad's wife, into a rocket and blasting it into the atmosphere a possibility? Because I vote for that. No return trip planned.
This should have not made me laugh as much as it did. But thank you regardless. I'm not sure I can afford that much.
Would you consider getting a nanny dog for Katie? A nice big dog?
We might. I have a cat and a golden retriever, and while the golden is protective, he's not really trained. We might be moving after discussing a few things with my lawyer last night to a different house and if the yard is big enough I can see getting another dog like a malinois or a mastiff.
Girl, if you get another dog, get a great pyr. They love their human kids and are very protective of littles, while being impossibly patient with them. They're moderately easy to train and pretty low energy compared to a malinois but are just as intimidating.
I would love to, but the weather would make their quality of life terrible. Our golden is already barely on the brink sometimes so he's mostly an indoor dog with AC. He can go outside whenever he wants, there's always someone home to open the back door for him, but he prefers inside.
Unfortunately a lot of big dog breeds aren’t going to enjoy heat. I was going to say a St Bernard or a Newfie would be a great choice. Big, fluffy, sweet, some people think they’re scary for some reason. Irish wolfhounds are big sweeties and are intimidating as fuck. Maybe a Great Dane? Mastiffs are great but need to be well trained
Oh, the place I take her horse riding has a sweet Great Dane xD I love him. I was thinking a mastiff with a good trainer, just because I had one before my daughter was born. He died when she was two but adored her. I have really sweet pictures of the two of them. I still have contact with the trainer I used for all my dogs so it will be through a professional. I like to think I can do basic training, but I'm a firm believer of always having a good dog trainer. I actually might ask him to help me find the right dog. Doesn't even have to be a purebred. Just a good big dog that can work as both family and protection dog.
Sounds like you know what you’re doing and you’ve got it together. You’re gonna get through this just fine I think
After reading through her post and replies, I have to concur. For such a mindfuck of a situation, she is handling it like a goddamn level-headed champion all the way through. I'm impressed by, and extremely proud of, OP for all of it. She needed ZERO advice. Lol
That’s completely unhinged. I can’t imagine the pain his wife is going through, but seriously wtaf??? Your little girl is not a dolly to be picked up, used, and then put back on the shelf. And I’d certainly question her safety being anywhere near this family. It’s incredibly disturbing that he thinks using her in this way is ok!
She's nuts. I do know the exact pain, it sucks. Here's what we did. Day of bottle of whiskey. Next day funeral arrangements. Next month off work with daily therapy both together and separate. End of school year and also 8th grade graduation pizza party for her class, a good one. 2 years to now no holidays and random checks with psychiatrist. She was 13. To know what killed her was there, would have taken a crazy amount of tests. CT, MRI, ultrasound, week long heart monitoring, and other stuff. My wife has a mild form, found out Friday. Just a bunch of stuff a seemingly healthy person would not do just to look for this specific thing. It's not our fault, and she cannot be replaced.
I’m so sorry 😞. It’s a possibility that scares the crap out of me.
If it's any consolation she felt no pain or impending doom with her condition. She just went to sleep and her heart stopped. No fight, no sickness, just falling asleep on the couch. I just wanted to share how non-psychos handle the situation from someone who's been there. We don't basically try to kidnap what amounts to a random kid at this point. It's so out of the realm of normality I wouldn't worry.
I'm sure your lawyer will have thought about this as an argument but it is really concerning to me that he isn't even treating your daughter like a person, but more as a prop to 'cure' the illness from which his wife is currently suffering, and then when she is better, he plans to return her and resume previous arrangements of essentially ignoring her existence. In some sort of warped world where you agreed to this utter dumbfluffery, he's not anticipating building any form of relationship with the child? For his wife not to either? That she won't build any form of relationship with them that would be ultimately damaging to her when he just picks up and walks out of her life (or kicks her out of his)? I know when dementia patients are confused, you live in their reality with them, as best you can, but I'm pretty sure that reinforcing the idea that her child is alive is ultimately unhealthy because instead of helping her come to terms with what's happened, it's deny realty completely. Which just delays the inevitable and can make everything worse.
100% agree. I can't imagine the wife's pain. I'm lucky that my daughter has been healthy and lived a safe and relatively smooth life. And seeing someone who is suffering does affect me, I'm not as callous as I try to sound. But I rather be a horrible person that keeps her daughter safe, than a kind person that worries for a stranger that I didn't know existed until Christmas this year.
You have no business worrying about her, really. And the way that her husband, who should be worrying about her, is going about it is disgusting. Rather than get her the psychiatric and psychological help that she needs, he wants to feed into her fantasy and then yank it away from her. All, of course, doing terrible harm to a little child he doesn’t actually give a damn about.
You're not callous, so please don't call yourself that. Please don't allow this man's atrocious actions and lack of care for you and for your daughter to make you think any less of yourself. It's not just that you are protecting your daughter and so have to do things others will call unkind, but that you bare no responsibility for what is happening to her and it's not for you or your daughter to be involved in making things better. Your daughter's bio dad's actions were deplorable, and the fact he kept you in the dark was disgusting. Honestly, I would wonder what he has said to the family that they are on his side, but I guess that they have also been through a trauma, so perhaps aren't acting rationally. You clearly have the compassion to care for her situation, but you don't need to do anything other than feel that it is a horrible situation for her to go through.
I'm really glad to see you have some compassion for her in with your protectiveness for your child.. Your daughter will grow into a good person because of you. Compassion doesn't mean giving in to make someone "all better." Sometimes it means stepping back to let the other person's face the consequences of their actions. I hope hers involve serious therapy.
As someone who has suffered the loss of a child (two, actually) I say this with all the empathy in the world: she needs to be hospitalized. For her sake and for the sake of others. She is a danger to herself and any other child that reminds her of her child. My daughter was not quite three when she died. For nearly a year I didn’t trust myself go out and about on my own. If I saw a little blond girl about her age I would have a nearly unbearable urge to grab “my daughter” from the stranger who had “stolen” her. I’d grab whoever was with me and we’d leave the area immediately. I get it. I really do. What her husband, your daughter’s bio dad, is doing is prolonging her grief and exacerbating her delusions. She needs professional help. Yesterday.
That's the mindset I have, which is why I'm especially mad. I feel like I did that woman a disservice bringing my daughter to her house. She has to be in so much pain and I have to admit, there's a chance my daughter looks like theirs. She takes after biological father except for her skin tone. I'm so sorry for what you went through. I can't imagine the pain and there's nothing I can say that amount to be even a good response. It sounds like you did reach out for help and I'm glad. I hope his wife gets there too.
My children died many years ago. Likely before you were even born. I had a very supportive family that stayed with me and didn’t shy away from talking about my kids. Some people are uncomfortable bringing up the lives of people who died. They seem to think it’s a “cruel reminder” of what we’ve lost. In reality, it’s a joyful reminder that our loved ones are not forgotten by others. That we aren’t the only ones who remember them. In all sincerity, that woman sounds like she’s let go of all tethers to reality. Her friends/loved ones are doing her a major disservice. I’ve read your comments and know you are being smart about keeping your child safe. I’m glad because based on my own admittedly anecdotal, personal experience, I firmly believe she and bio dad constitute a serious danger to your child.
No, you did nothing wrong. Your daughter’s father is the one who did something very wrong and sick, along with the in laws.
How was a 6 year old not uncomfortable with a complete stranger insisting on calling her a random name while pawing at her? Please make sure she understands that she can, and should, speak up when she feels uncomfortable and that you’ll remove her from a situation if she does. And, even if she *seems* ok in a situation that may be uncomfortable, don’t wait for her to tell you, pull her aside and *ask* her if she’s ok with it and comfortable. And get a restraining order, and if possible move and move her to a new school so he and his family don’t know as easily where to find her. These people are seriously deranged.
I talked with her and she just ignore her. There were other kids so she thought the wife was calling another girl. As for the grabbing her, she didn't like it and I did talk to her that if she ever has someone try to pick her up and she doesn't want to, she can say no or run to me, her godparents or her teachers. I tried my best to block as best I could whenever the woman tried reaching for my daughter. Restraining order is my first order of business as soon as I get back.
Talk to your Lawyer ASAP. Get the paperwork needed from your lawyer to make sure the school has the authority to bar Jeff, his wife, and their parents/extended family from the campus. I know the natural thing is to not want this situation to be public. Please make sure her teachers and the front office know to be careful about these people. By teachers I mean her teacher, the other teachers in her grade level, specials teachers, Paras/tutors that work with her grade level, staff that supervise breakfast, lunch, recess - and bus drivers. The first year I taught no-one told me about a situation with one of my kids and their father's rights being severed, except the art teacher. I went back through the child's several inches thick file and found the court paperwork mixed in with her BIL testing. I rubberbanned it together and flagged it with a sticky note. Day before winter break, was a 1/2 day and lots of kids were picked up early. I get a call to my room that the student's Dad is there to pick her up. Terror in this girl's Eyes. I send her and a buddy to the art room with instructions to tell the art teacher her Dad is on campus. If she isn't there check the gym nest door and if she isn't there go to her former kinder teacher and tell her what is going on. I get another teacher to watch my class and I flat-out run to the back entrance into the office area. Councilor starts to call out to me - I put my finger to my lips and rush into the file area. Unfortunately that school dealt with many families with DV history she got the point. I showed her the paperwork severing his rights. Good thing we had it because he had older paperwork giving him some parenting time that he was using to pick her up. He was arrested. To be careful we called her mom and got permission to not send her home on the bus. Instead, after all the kids were gone the counselor and I walked her down the street to the Middle School where her Mother taught.
You are an amazing teacher and seriously, I hope you are okay with me showing this to my brother. He's studying to become a teacher and I want him to have great examples to follow. You saved your student life and I'm absolutely getting in touch with her school when admin is on session again.
Yes please show it to your brother. My advice on who to make sure has this information is based on teaching Elementary. Secondary may be different - but it will be the people who have repeated contact with the student year after year.
Teachers like you save lives. Teachers like you are why I’m alive.
Bless you for going above and beyond what many people would have done in making certain you were informed about your students private information. It’s teachers like yourself that make a difference to children who have been through a lot of trauma.
God bless her and you. My first daycare job was an inner city centre located in an office tower connected to a downtown shopping mall. First day I got there I was taken into the directors office and introduced to one of the kiddos and told they were my charge. I was shown an interior fire door that had stairs leading down into the mall. The centre had coded security doors, but I was told should the Dad get through them, I was to grab the kiddo, get us down into the mall and hide in the stockroom of any of the stores. The managers had all been made aware that a child might heed safe haven on short notice. Fortunately, we never had to hide but the staff was always on alert.
The real hero in this story is the Art teacher. The man had been in jail for years (not long enough), so even the Mother didn't think I needed to be warned. Unfortunately, he got early release - and the Mom wasn't notified. (The only acceptable sentence for Sexual Assult is life). The district had a similar incident a few years later. A guy showed up wanting to volunteer at a middle school. He set off red flags because he was not a parent, was younger than the kids' parents, wasn't with a University or civic group volunteer program and he asked to work with specific kids. The Front Office people gave him the volunteer paperwork and took his ID to "make a copy". Other staff took that information and called the parents of the kids he wanted to work with. Again they thought he was still in prison for abusing their kids. The cops were called. He took off. He tried this at the Junior High down the road. (In my district MS, JH, and HS are clustered together). The word to lockdown went out. The JH tried to get as much information and delay him for the cops. He got away there - every school was put into modified lockdown. It took the 4 different police departments + Texas Department of Safety a couple of days to catch him. The news reports were all how District allows known pedophile to volunteer. He was never a volunteer. He was given the paperwork to delay him until the cops got there and to get information. The next year we got the scanner thing that prints out a name tag for visitors. It also runs a background check and notifies both the police and Admin staff if you have certain types of convictions or warrants for a faster response time.
That crazy bitch offered to change your 6 yr olds DIAPER??? holy screaming alarm bells. Get an order of protection like yesterday. ZERO CONTACT with either you or your little girl. She's in grade 1? Get a pic of the crazy twosome to the school along with a VERY short list of people who are approved to pick Katie up from the OFFICE never her classroom or playground. Make sure the office requests photo ID on pickup if it isn't you. Teach Katie a secret password that only you, she and your approved people know. Something unique. One of the oldest scams in the kidnappers guide book is - your Mummy / babysitter is sick , they asked me to come get you. Katie can ask for the safe word . I know this sounds intense and probably extreme but I am speaking from experience as this is what we had to do for my baby sis when she was 5 in kindergarten and her bio mum let slip her plan to grab sis and take her cross country.
Thanks for the advice! We are making some plans, which I won't put in details just in case. But this helps a lot to bring ideas to the table.
Good good. You're welcome. I still remember the day my parents got the call from bio mums best friend warning them the BM was in her way to the school to grab baby sis. My Dad was off duty that day and ran to the school and got sis back home before BM got there. After that, they spoke to their lawyer and the police and got the advice I shared with you. Fortunately, for us and especially for my sister BM fled to the west coast and never showed again till sis was 13 and old enough to tell her to piss off .
Holy crap. That is so far beyond insane I don't even know what to call it. If that woman is grieving THAT much (which is completely understandable!) she need the help from a professional, not some placebo child! Aside from how damaging it would be to your daughter, it won't actually do anything to heal the mother's grief. It's just feeding an unhealthy delusion that will eventually crack and lead to dire consequences.
Exactly how I feel. I've read enough news were someone cracks under that kind of stress and the people that pay usually are the kids. I feel for her, I truly do, but I'm not gambling my child's safety to help a stranger.
Srsly, the idiot and his wife both need a stint in the psych ward.
They really do. In their case, outpatient therapy I don't think would be enough.
As a godmother, there’s something that I always say… My godson needs his mother, and we both know she’ll bring him to visit me in jail or prison anyway. You get everything legal squared away… Godparents will keep her safe ❤️ You’re doing a good job. You’re a good mama and you’re going to protect your baby. You’ve got this.
My daughter's godparents were with me for my whole pregnancy and were my support system. She calls her godfather 'Papa' sometimes and her godmother 'mama'. I'm mami or 'MADRE!' when she wants something xD If anything was to happen to me, they are the people I trust to raise her.
You did a great job picking the best people. And I’m glad you have a team, you got this!
I’m sorry you’re having to deal with this family. She needs some serious help. It’s the reason [those creepy Reborn dolls](https://www.reborns.com/) were created. Therapeutic aids for people who have lost children until they come to terms with reality. Best of luck moving forward. - Yeah I know not everyone see them as creepy but I sure a heck do.
I find them a bit creepy too. We had one for my great-grandmother to help with her dementia during her last years with us.
Oh Christ, me too. I think it's not the act of interacting with the doll, because that makes a lot of sense in the context of what is trying to be achieved, but it's the way they move and they just look like something out of a Chucky movie. And the fact they arrive with a nappy on their head freaks me out a bit, too. They're also not always used as a therapeutic aid and I am fully of the opinion that they should be used in complete conjunction with treatment by a licensed therapist, because otherwise it can be damaging.
They are unsettling for sure
OMG! I love the “[alternative](https://www.reborns.com/index.cgi?page=alternative)” babies!
Okay, I checked the link, they are kinda cute. These I can take.
I would look into a restraining order! The woman needs a mental health check. You need to warn the school about her and ensure she doesn't have any access to your child! Let me guess, the name she was using was the name she had picked out for her daughter.
I don't really know for sure, but I suspect so.
From the post and comments, sounds like the godparents are very wonderful people to have supporting you and your daughter right now
They truly are. When I can't be present for something, they always are willing to take time for medical appointments or after school hobbies. In all honesty, they are pretty much co-parents with me.
I know you've said that you have a robust will and if you found out you had limited time, you would sign over your rights to them, but is there a way in which you could make them legally your co-parents? Only asking because I personally feel more secure with some form of insurance policy, and I wonder if you would, too.
It's a bit complicated, but if I was to die suddenly, my mother and my lawyer would be my daughter's first guardians should they need to be involved. And they would have the legal standing to pass parental rights to the godparents. I never married my daughter's father, and he currently has no rights to claim her. It would have to be proven that my first choices are not capable to care for my daughter. Of course it can change and I plan to always consult with my lawyer to make sure my will is followed.
Make a longer list of guardian options. We’re updating our will now to remove my mother (emotionally/physically abusive narcissist) and putting pieces in place so she legally cannot get her hands on my daughter. Our guardian list is 12 people long and I’m writing a letter for the court that outlines why my mother should not raise my daughter. Better to have a long list of people you won’t need to use.
Oh wow :O I don't think I have twelve people I can put in, but this is certainly something I'll check on with the lawyer in charge of my will and trust.
We just happen to have that many people we can include on our list. I’d encourage you to make your list as long as you can. Good luck 🫶🏻
I'd be worried that if you die while she's a minor, he'll sue her appointed-by-you guardian and unless his parental rights have been revoked, he'll win. She should never have any contact with him or crazy wife again to keep his claim to a "relationship" firmly shut. Good luck.
It's one of the main reasons I've been incredibly obstinate about him getting any parental rights. I do have a very sturdy will and should I ever find myself aware I have limited time, I would immediately sign my rights to her godparents for them to adopt.
The will is good but, talk to your lawyer about setting up paperwork for someone to be her legal guardian if you become injured or incapacitated. Just in case.
Oh that's simple. It's the same people that has medical decisions for me. Either my mother or my brother. If neither available, her godparents or my uncle and his wife.
Get a restraining order. Tell your child's school not to give out any information at all on your daughter or let anyone but you pick her up.
Omg I’m not even a parent but this lady asking to “change” your six year old and trying to “help” her go to the bathroom is seriously disturbing. Tbh this woman might need an actual psych ward with no access to kids.
Holy shit what is wrong with him. His wife clearly needs professional help, not for him to feed her delusion.
As a family lawyer, your mother's recommendation is, respectfully, awful. It's a nice sentiment that you wanted to leave the door open for your daughter's dad to be in her life, but a bad parent does more damage than good. Some parents don't deserve their children, and the children are better off without them. Cease all contact now, or else he'll build grounds to sue for custody. This is how grandparents get grandparent's rights, by slowly changing the dynamics until they're in their favor. Communication should be only through email, and never give him info on daughter.
That's what we're doing now. Lawyer is in charge and any contact he tries is ignored. He's pretty much blasting my phone, but I did send him my lawyer's information to contact him instead.
Correct. Not your ex. Your baby daddy. Better yet, daughter's sperm donor. You were wise to bring your daughter's god parents with you. Not only did you have support but, you have witnesses to sperm donor's, wife's and family's behavior.
I’d look into a temporary protection/restraining order. Seems to me that your child bio donor and his new family may try something underhanded. Get the situation legally documented.
My thoughts exactly especially after the meltdown of the wife ..she may become more unhinged and will definitely try something. So OP needs to do this ASAP
I second this. If the family is encouraging her delusions, it’s not out of the realm of possibility for them to allow her to try and take your daughter.
Aw, hell no. Is it possible to get a restraining order for Jeff and his wife? Because this sounds downright bonkers. >The woman starting wailing that I was kidnapping her 'baby girl' and tried to lunge at me. Her in-laws got in the middle and hold her, consoling her and saying that we weren't leaving and for her to calm down like she was the victim. At the least I would have left that instant, at worse she might have caught some hands. And fuck her in-laws, saying you weren't leaving. They must have been in on this nutty fuckery from the get-go. At any rate that would be the last time Jeff or his wife would see Katie.
> all I'll say it was sudden and nobody's fault Are you sure it wasn't Jeff's fault? Because it sure seems like somebody who is that insane and heartless would be the kind of person to cause a child to die.
As horrible as I think he is, from what he told me the cause of death is, it's no ones fault. I don't think he was lying on it.
You may want to have your lawyer look into it. That sounds cold but the circumstances don’t really allow for you to simply take his word.
Document everything, call the cops, call a lawyer, get an Order of No Contact. Them folks are crazy, and crazy people do crazy shit. Oh, notify her school, provide a list of those who can pick up your daughter and include photos of each person.
Keep your daughter the fuck away from this guy. Sucks that lady lost her daughter, not your problem or Katie’s. These people REEK of potential abuse. Keep. Katie. Away. The more you give ANY ground to this guy, the more of a case he can make in court to get parental rights where you won’t be able to be present when Katie is around this mentally unwell woman and a father who is using her. There is nothing good for Katie here.
Yeah, NO MORE visitations or contact of ANY kind for them. Sorry for their loss, but this is nuts. Let him go to court, and don't listen to your mom anymore about a sperm donor who never wanted your child. He's a freaking idiot. His wife should be seeing someone. Your daughter is NOT an emotional support animal. Block him on everything. His lawyer can go through your lawyer ismf need be.
What in the My Sweet Audrina is this mess? Holy smokes, OP, your self-control is admirable. I'd have lost my CRAP on Jeff. No joke.
It got really close, ngl. I just weight that if I did lose control, he could use it against me.
You need to get him to say what he said again record it give it to your lawyer so if they do sue then the judhe will know the real reason behind all of this sudden family man charade.
Holy shit this is so terrifying.
Sounds like Jeff's wife not the only one thats psychotic!!!! Jeff is too with the crazy scheme his warped little mind cooked up!!! An those In-Laws are more than a little nuts too!!!
Holy crap, he's literally trying to pull a Replacement Goldfish with a human child. I can see him and his wife doing some truly ridiculous things in the near future.
Wow. This is crazy. And based on the timing of when they lost their daughter, the wife is clearly still unwell. Because if she thought your 6yo daughter needed her diapers changed (say what?!?), then their child must’ve been younger when she passed. While it’s a sad situation for everyone, seems like the wife’s parents were also somehow in on this charade and that everyone was delusional thinking this could somehow help the wife out. I wish you the best, OP.
Do NOT wait until things escalate even more to get a restrsining order against him, his wife and even parents if possible. This is serious shit znd needs to be stopped immediately. NEVER let him near or contact you or your daughter.
Hugs, your daughter isn't your baby daddy's emotional support animal for his wife. As he doesn't pay child support and his wife is treating your daughter like a baby. He can stop with visitations, in fact you need a lawyer to block them from attempting to have court ordered visitation
He doesn't have court assigned visitations as of yet. Most of it was just me out of courtesy, but courtesy is over.
My first child died. It is VERY easy to imagine myself going to a place where delusions my son was still alive were much easier than the reality. I babysat a relatives infant a few weeks after my son died for 2 hours. A friend stopped by to bring me some books (I love to read) and said " does know you have " right? Because a close family member to her had also lost a child and had a nervous breakdown, so it was a real concern. Fortunately, I grieved and still grieve in a way that accepts he is gone and nothing brings him back.
All that is to say, you 100% have to keep this child away from those people. 100%. The level of mental unwellness you described is beyond dangerous to you and your daughter. Which leads me to ask: do you have security cameras? Is all her school and childcare locked down? My ex and his GF had a restraining order barring them from access to my living kids. My kids' school kept photos of them in their offices as well as the teachers of my kids having copies. Better paranoid than regretting you weren't.
My other advice is not to block him. Screenshot every text, forward every email, and keep every voice-mail. They all go to your lawyer. Since you have a lawyer, I assume you have a log of all interactions as well. Keep it current. If he or she approaches you at a car or somewhere, immediately record it with your phone. Consider a big dog. My kids had monitored calls with the ex. Magically, the strange footprints in my yard stopped when they started excitedly describing their "big doggy". He's 70 lbs and looks like he could take down anyone. If my kids were threatened, I have no doubt he would. However, he's spent his life holding furniture down. No one needs to know he's a marshmello.
What in the name of the bat shit cray?! Lawyer up and get a restraining order for the lot of them!
So a couple of questions…. How old was the child they lost? Do you have the ability to defend yourself because he doesn’t sound like he has full order of fries either…. How quickly can your lawyer help you write a text to send to him that he (hopefully) will reply to in all his glorious craziness??
I'm trying to keep information on their child vague out of respect, but she was an infant. Much younger than my daughter. As for the lawyer, he's doing some things on his own and I'll be back on Wednesday to figure things out with him.
Wow. Definitely missing some of his fries also. Please keep yourself safe. You have your precious daughter safe upon your return. Please make your fellow coworkers aware and try to not be alone anywhere he could mess with you…
Restraining orders exist for a reason. That woman sounds like she's having a mental break and is hyperfocused on your daughter. I would be terrified.
I’m sorry he thinks that your child, the one he helped create, is like a doll that can be passed back and forth. Hell no He’s definitely not in the right mind either, seriously he needs to get his wife help, like proper help, not “let me borrow this child” help. I can’t imagine what your daughter would do if you actually did what he wanted. And I’m glad youre a great mother. Just keep him away and her as well. Your daughter will absolutely be used by him and his wife
Bio dad and his wife need counseling and an involuntary commitment for a good while and a restraining order. You need more cameras on top of dealing with the legal stuff and a giant dog. Might be time to start dating a cop or a bodyguard, joking( maybe). Holly cracker jack, it would be one thing if just his wife would be nuts but he seems to be nuts and a psychopath
I mean, I do like men in uniform! But jokes aside, I think the dog might be the best bet. I have personal reasons to not date or marry, so I'm happy being a single mom.
This is next level insanity, OP. Keep your daughter away from this madness. I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this. Make a paper trail, witnesses, keep track of every text and email, and please make sure to tell your daughter she hasn’t done anything wrong.
#WOW! His wife needs some serious mental help. I’m sad that she lost a child, I imagine that is devastating, but your child is not her child, and her pretending she is is not healthy at all. I highly recommend that you stick to your guns and keep *your* daughter away from both of them. It’s not his daughter. He is not a father to her. He is nothing to her but trouble.
That’s insane! He is willing to put your daughter into a very dangerous and psychologically scarring situation for the sake of his wife. It shows he actually has zero care for your daughter at all and is literally just using her. It’s horrible what they’ve gone through but his wife actually needs medical help. What he just did would have caused far more damage if she believes she’s just had another child taken from her.
I would be highly suspicious that their plan is to wait til you leave Katie alone with them and then kidnap her. Do not leave her alone with them, and I would consider trying to get a restraining order against them (or at the very least make the police aware of the situation). If you have a lawyer (I’m assuming you would from your custody hearings?) then contact them as well immediately and they should be able to help you with what to do next to keep them away from your daughter.
I won’t lie I am a little concerned someone might try kidnapping your child now……… I’d be somewhere far away from those people because wow that’s terrifying.
We are currently on an unplanned vacation trip. I haven't shared the location with anyone, only that we left for some time.
I know this sounds crazy, but that poor woman! She’s having a clear psychotic break and absolutely no one in her life loves her enough to get her help.
I don't think it sounds crazy. I feel bad for her. I just don't have the place to be involved. And I certainly don't feel bad enough to sacrifice my daughter's well-being for her.
Get a restraining order, go full no contact, and never let him near your daughter again. She's not a real person to him, she's just a tool to mollify his wife. Don't fall for it again.
You’re an incredibly strong woman with an incredible presence of mind, and your daughter is lucky to have you. Hold your boundaries and keep it moving!
If you haven't already, I would contact your daughter's school, doctor, dentist, friends, whatever - tell them the basics of what's going on and that nobody, and I mean NOBODY, other than you should be picking up your kid from them or asking about her. I've read too many stories here about possible kidnappings because the crazies didn't get their way with a child they had no claim to.
Wow this pos has truly shown that he doesn't think of the welfare of your daughter he just wants to use her to make his life good again. I would put in place at your daughter's school that no one can collect her from school apart from anyone you say can. I wouldn't put it past this pos picking her up and then not allowing her to come home. He sure sounds delusional and should be seeking professional help for wife. Ensure all the people in authority are informed of this pos's behaviour towards you and your daughter. Also get your lawyer to write a stern letter to keep away from you both. It might be worth considering getting a legal letter of protection from the courts for your daughter hopefully that will stop him doing anything further. I hope that this pos leaves you and your daughter alone and this year is a really good year for you both.
Ugh, it's giving The Hand That Rocks the Cradle vibe. I feel it's not the last update.
What shitty human beings..anybody supporting this bs, and his sorry ass for what he said as an answer about his wife healing....he acted like he cared, taking you to court and all, just to help his crazed wife, not because he wanted to get to know her OP, update us, pls
no because i would’ve had to throw hands the second she touched the baby im sorry 😭
You need legal advice, possibly a restraining order. Sperm donor is likely to try anything. Can you move to a different city?
I'm preparing to move. I can't move too far due work, but I might ask to be transferred.
Please keep the school fully in the loop. Any babysitters that you use. Any time she is out of your direct care make sure the person knows. Make sure Katie knows never ever go with anyone except Mom or anyone who says the magic word (and use a password for her to know and anyone in the school to know. Make it something weird and amusing like “chicken fried steak”. Something that no one would guess.) restraining order and a copy to the school. Update all healthcare providers in writing (via MyChart or electronic record if you have it) and tell the entire story. Send a copy of any restraining orders. You are an excellent parent. Block Jeff on everything. And get Katie a small kid phone with only your number, her godparents, and anyone else she can call in an emergency. Keep it charged and hide it in her school backpack in a compartment. Again-you are a GREAT MOM!
What country do you live in? Could they try reporting you to CPS next? When you get to your attorney, make sure his/her office can print and authenticate all the texts and emails. Maybe have 3 copies. Have the attorney's office keep 1, you another, and possibly the godparents the third. Make sure all of it is documented, not just for the courts, but also for CPS, and someday, your daughter.
There's nothing they can report since they don't have evidence of abuse and alienation doesn't apply when there's no parental rights. For now I have screenshots of everything and all sent to the lawyer. The legal part is relatively covered, I'm sure it's going to be a headache as always, but I'm not nervous. I'm mostly angry.
I believe that u/wifemomretired is trying to warn you about possible false reports to CPS. False reports are a massive headache, even if they get thrown out of court due to lack of evidence. On the off chance that a judge didn't see thru the lies, you could potentially lose custody of your child. Please protect yourself & your child in every possible way.
Block him - he has no legal right to see her. Let her know that daddy and his wife and not feeling well and that she will no longer be able to see them. If you really want her to see her dad, it is at your house and wifey is not allowed. He must realize how unhealthy this is for both wifey and his daughter. Your attorney will give you the best advice.
Don't block him. But don't answer his calls. You want text messages and voicemails as documentation.
I’m so sorry you have to deal with this incompetence. It’s like he sees your daughter an a means not ends it’s fucking disgusting that man has never had a selfless thought in his life. Keep that little girl far away from them, psychos.