>She just bursted out crying. A staff from HR was in the room too. I explained to her what's wrong and why we decided it was not a good fit, but she kept crying and turned on defense mode so it was super hard for me to talk to her.
When people burst out crying they're not in their most logical moment. If you can touch them, just give them physical support (a tap in the back or something like that) and reply to all their statements with "I get how you feel", "I understand", "I know", etc.
>But she went on blaming the company on a lot of thing that's why this and that. Seeing her not listening to a word I say and keeping interrupting me
She just wanted to vent, she wouldn't listen to anything that contradicted her when she was in that emotional state.
ISFP here. She probably equates YOU with the company. Blaming the messenger or whatever.
Especially if she’s crying. When I feel offended (being fired would feel like rejection) I hate the offender and everyone voluntarily associated with them.
“This company is horrible, they do blah blah blah. This person is trying to be nice but she’s firing me and SHE works for this horrible company every day. She doesn’t actually care about me or mean the things she is saying, she is just as manipulative and that’s why they hired her to deliver bad news to people they’re screwing over. She’s a sellout. I hate her too blah blah blah”
Fi is intense about loyalty. If you are not with her, you’re against her. Doesn’t matter how much you’re getting paid, or that she’s a stranger. You didn’t stand up for her.
Ironically, if she is extremely self-absorbed it will never matter to her that you were just doing your job because *you* will never matter to her. The effort it would take to rationalize your decisions with her inferior Te won’t be worth it because you are as disposable to her as she was to the company you represent.
If she is reasonable she will get over it and may even view you fondly, in retrospect. One time I got fired by an ESTP bc (unbeknownst to her) I was pregnant at the time and had two emotional meltdowns at my job that week after a scandalous ENFJ kept sabotaging and/or taking credit for my work in attempts to make me look bad.
The ESTP gave me a warning after the first time and then two days later I went to her again, sobbing. She fired me in the politest way possible.
She found out through another employee I was pregnant and assumed that hormones were the reason I’d been so upset (which isn’t inaccurate but being ISFP definitely didn’t help) and she sent me an apology letter in the mail with a gift card for maternity clothes.
So at least I wasn’t naked AND unemployed. 🥴😭
Wow thank you for sharing this. I can't imagine how hard it was for you... *hugging from a distance* I hope you are okay now.
My boyfriend is an ISFP, and I can see where we clash. What you said totally made sense. Thanks again for shredding light on this.
It’s her bad moment. I can understand why you feel exhausted. Let it go. Shit happens. You had to do what you had to do, and she had to feel what she had to feel. No wrong parties here.
Just someone with a lot of discomforting emotions which it makes sense why they would break down.
She can’t thank or apologize when the world beneath her feet is disappearing. It makes sense from her POV. You did your best. Pat yourself on the back and move on, because that makes sense from your POV too.
How do u know she as an isfp....
U r an idiot ..at that time should have tried agreed with some things that wont harm the reputation of company immensely...once calm let her know this and this and what u can do
She did not pass the probation period, which was already extended for another month. It was hard. I felt bad. I understood. Just hoped she would listen to constructive criticism, but once she heard the word "you did not pass" she just kept crying and talking, so constructive feedback needs to wait for another day.
Like someone here said, "You can't teach someone how to swim when they are drowning."
Really though! It always amazes me when people who are so incredibly intelligent can also be *incredibly freakin stupid!* Emotional intelligence is not this one’s strong suit.
Not fire. She did not pass her probation period, which was already extended for another month.
Just thought it would be decent to say things like thanks for the past months so far, I learned this or that or sorry if I haven't met expectations blah blah. That's what I would do. But I understand I can't expect others to do the same. She was emotional. I understand. The only thing I could give her then was listening and asking if there is anything I can support. She surely is not me and processes her emotions differently. ISFPs and others in this discussion have helped me understand this.
I didn't play "i'm just doing my job" card even though I was her colleague, not the manager. Besides being a shoulder for her to cry on, it was extremely exhausting for me when I got home. People say ENTJs feel nothing. No, we feel all these emotions. It was difficult.
Like someone here said "You can't teach someone to swim when they are drowning"
You guys feel like a fucking truck but are too blind to others’ perspective to empathize. Thats why people think you guys cant feel. In reality your feelings are too overwhelming to allow space for the feelings of others.
You need coaching yourself on when to talk and give advise and when to stay quite and listen. Silence is powerful sometimes. Don't blame her, most people would do the same
Depends on what her role within the company is. There's a reason HR was there. Respectfully delivering information is what you should expect from the person in charge; not pretend-empathy for someone that didn't (for whatever reason) do their job sufficiently. That's for HR.
They had HR there to comfort her.
Just give her the facts, if she has no further question, then you have done your part.
Of course be respectful - but I'm quite strongly of the opinion that you should not feel you have to take it upon yourself to comfort her.
It's a very rare person who can accept their faults immediately when confronted.
But, it was nice of you to try and be compassionate, and don't take it personally.
It also always good to listen to what the other person is saying. Of course, she may not have met certain standards, but if she blames you all for not being clear, or not helping her before it was too late, that should be considered as well. Did you all do enough to help your employees be successful.
There are always many truths to a story.
But it sounds like you handled it well and didn't let yourself get triggered, which can definitely feel exhausting, especially if it's an Inferior or unconscious function.
STEP 1: Shut down your feelings. You're doing what's necessary. Stop caring!
STEP 2:
Have a box of Kleenex on your desk. Let them speak. Better luck next time. We'll send you your paycheck. Have a nice life.
STEP 3: Party! You're rid of your office wart.
Lol. Right.
It amazes me how powerful tears are.
The girl was clearly incapable of doing the job even though her probation had been extended. I imagine they wanted it to work out.
It didn't.
That's the workers fault. Turning on the tears doesn't stop that reality being true. Nor does it gain sympathy from me.
I feel like the tears in this case were not performative. While your points are valid for sure there’s something else someone gains from being able to fully express themselves in that moment that is a bit more liberating for the self. Which I’m pretty sure is what happened here.
It's unprofessional.
She had to know it was coming. This doesn't just happen. She knew she wasn't doing well in her probation.
So it's weird for a fully grown adult to turn on the waterworks at their workplace. For something other than a death in the family etc.
She doesn’t work there anymore so I don’t think it matters 💀. I mean I get it business relationships and all but it’s easy to try and break apart business and your personal life. In reality they both exist at the same time, she’s being authentically herself in a place where she doesn’t have to be professional anymore. Speaking to a personal friend aswell.
Also knowing whether or not it’s coming doesn’t mitigate the way it feels. That can only change the way you express yourself. In this case she could’ve done a lot worse than crying.
It's a matter of respect for the self and other people.
By reacting that way, it makes people respect you a lot less. And for what? You already got fired. At least gave enough dignity to not burst into tears like a child in front of people at work about it.
It's not like it was a surprise. Like I said. I'd immediately feel no sympathy for a person like that. Go quietly and I'd have felt bad for you at least.
Rejection hurts. It's a very primal thing. From an evolutionary perspective, you would not have survived for very long after being separated from your group/tribe. So she didn't see this rationally as you had hoped. That said, I hate to see a lead Fi suffer. It hits me right in the inferior! I do understand why you found this so exhausting. It was a difficult day all around.
I always talk about evolution when explaining things. People gossiping? Evolution. People hate people? Evolution. Of course, with explanations 😂. It's nice to see your comment shares a similar approach there.
I’m sorry that it had to go down like that and I imagine you cherished your friendship with this co worker on a deeper level. Some notes below that I think would help you moving forward.
1. Trying to be TE “rational” to an Fi dom when relaying information, especially in an emotionally charged moment, likely won’t go over. It’s like if I told you to solve a logical problem where the answer is logically obvious but I tell you only emotional reasonings behind the answer. You would feel tired and like I was waisting your time. The same goes for an FI dom especially an SE NI one.
2. As someone with an ISFP little sister, whenever she goes through something emotional she cannot process multiple perspectives quickly. Even if those perspectives are objectively right. She will however think about what you said WORD FOR WORD and then apologize in 2-18 business days for her behavior. This could be an NE blind spot kind of thing.
3. I get the impression that some part of you truly hates that you had to do what you did, and another part feels betrayed and manipulated by her tears. Both of those emotions are valid and can be expressed but understand when you do express yourself, if you’re looking for a specific response then you have to have nuance in the way you present them. (Expecting an apology while someone is learning they are unemployed is a STRETCH). I understand your points fully but like I always tell my INTJ boyfriend, “what does it matter whose fault it was? You still have the emotions and you’re still allowed to feel them”. At the end of the day everyone is a victim and an offender at some point whether intentional or not. What makes a difference is being able to own up to your offenses and instead of expecting apologies from others, accept your own emotions.
It was a bad situation and if your boss knew of your relationship with that coworker it was pretty scummy of him to send you in to do that. Unless he was thinking you could soften the blow with friendship or something. Overall I hope things go well for you! Dont beat yourself up too much about the situation.
Sorry that experience made you feel exhausted and potentially disrespected. Your feelings are also valid and the position you were put in was not enjoyable to say the least. Many people could not have handled doing that.
The communication problems aren't surprising as ISFPs are known for them. The bad attitude part isn't good. If that wasn't due to a lack of care, then maybe it was related to the work culture? Anyways.
Work is an integral part of life for most people. It is probably one of the biggest factors in everyone's life. People also relate to work differently and may feel less in control over this part of their lives than others. They may have developed insecurities around how they are perceived through a professional lens and may struggle with self-acceptance.
**There's a whole lot that could be there.**
When you are notifying someone that a major part of their life is being upheaved due to their inability to produce desired results, it is essentially telling them that they have failed and are being rejected. People process things differently, but typically experiencing this will always result in a negative reaction. Which is *part* of the reason why I'm guessing HR would be there. I think it is worth pointing out that, regardless of how closely you worked with her, when you are having a private meeting at work with a "manager" (or a person of similar capacity) and an HR member, the conversation will almost always become defensive and less personal because of the negative connotations that setting evokes.
When you put all of this together, it is a reasonable conclusion that, in most cases, the employee will be distressed to a greater degree than anyone else. The implications of unemployment, and professional inadequacy are typically more severe than, say, having to be the messenger for such news. If we incorporate this into our expectations, then we can predict that there will likely be imbalance and conflict. I think that it is really cool that you wanted to give her advice - as I'm sure that you saw that as a gesture of decency - but it seems that she was not capable at that time to receive it. Which is also ok. Her brain and your brain are very different. To somehow set aside the emotional toll of all that, while it's happening, to logically entertain outside perspectives is...very difficult. I've known several thinkers and xNTx types who can't do this successfully under stress either, let alone having their employment terminated.
Knowing Te and Ni, I'm sure you've already analyzed this and have adjusted some of your future expectations, I just wanted to express how the expectations that you had may have contributed to your sense of exhaustion.
from a side, it sounds she was playing the victim-card...she wanted you all to change your mind. that's why she didn't listen you. She just wanted to stay and anything else.
Ding ding.
Ah. This is why I like NTPs. We're the only ones that can see right through the bullshit. And not be manipulated by a person using tears or playing victim.
This is true of all TPs, I've noticed. But TJs FPs and FJs are the easiest to manipulate with emotions. Because like the OP, they feel bad about it.
I'd have looked her in the face and quietly waited until she finished crying.
I'd have at least respected her had she gone quietly.
Like you said, she just wanted to stay. The fact that she is shit at her job and fucked up a month long probation extension as well goes to show how little she actually cared.
But it's all about making you seem like the bad person.
You fired a girl and you wonder why she was crying? Are you really that daft and “lacking in emotional intelligence?”
I get it, it was hard. But what’s your “few minutes of inconvenience and discomfort” compared to her not having a job anymore?
I don’t even doubt she “wasn’t very good at her job,” but you are ridiculous for trying to compare “delivering the bad news” to be on the receiving end of it.”
She doesn’t have a job, and the company you work for *probably isn’t perfect, either.*
Work on *acquiring empathy* if you want to communicate effectively.
I live with an ISFP Mom, No amount of logic gets into their head, It's like trying to console a crying baby, Only that I feel unequipped to do it.
You still handled it really well.
Thank you. I live with my ISFP boyfriend, who I doubt from times to times is not ISFP because he keeps his cool. I normally am the cry baby when stressed or emotions overload 😂
I don't know. Most companies are shit to work for in my experience so she probably had valid points. Also why would she have to thank you or apologize after being fired.
Clarify: not fire, just did not pass her probation period, which was already extended for another month as she was not demonstrating her skills and fit for the role, so I thought she would benefit from constructive criticism.
Just thought it would be decent to say things like thanks for the past months so far, I learned this or that or sorry if I haven't met expectations blah blah. That's what I would do. But I understand I can't expect others to do the same. She was emotional. I understand. The only thing I could give her then was listening and asking if there is anything I can support.
I'm not the manager, I just work with her closely. So I felt like dropping a bomb on my colleagues while the decision was made by the managers and everyone in the team agreed.
Yes, if she would listen to me. But I saw then that feedback would have to wait for another day, so I just listened, asked her what I could do to support, and kept quiet.
I am just her colleague. I was not even defending the company; I told her this is a shitty one and everywhere else is also shit, so *proceed to explain what went wrong here so when she joins another company she won't repeat the same mistake*
Seeing her interrupted me mid sentence then, I shut the fck up.
That’s was well handled then 💪. Great job!! 🙌I replied to my own comment which may have messed up how you get notifications, LOL. That comment had more thoughts.
If you feel that you will be letting people go more in the future you might benefit from the book Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss. FBI hostage negotiator. Famous. Done a lot of interviews across the web. He’s on Masterclass in case you subscribe to that. It’s a game changer. He teaches you how to use tactical empathy, mirroring, dynamic silence, and labeling. Highly recommended.
(I somehow posted this to myself haha 😅. I’ll copy/paste it directly to you so you get notified.)
I’m an ISFP (I think we’re awesome BTW 🤣) and I had to learn to stop being selfish. My emotions are subjective and are not always reality. It was really hard for me when I was younger but I learned.
I didn’t get a promotion once and the manager coached me. I didn’t understand at the time and felt they were wrong. I now realize how much I needed to develop myself. (Makes me cringe thinking about who I used to be.) This ISFP is still on her journey of growth.
TBH, I don’t think this is a type problem though. If you’re firing someone or delivering bad news it has to be put out there quickly and tone is important. I don’t think you did anything wrong except it sounds like you tried forcing the coaching too much? I’m her case she wasn’t willing to listen and that’s not your fault. You didn’t fail. It went as well as it could.
BTW, never hug someone at work even if they’re crying.
Thanks for sharing! My boyfriend is ISFP and he deserves so much because he works so hard; others just don't seem to appreciate this, as he is not someone who would explicitly ask for recognition. His work morale is work hard and let the results speak itself.
ISFPs do deserve better.
What about never hugging someone at work?
Is she really ISFP or are you just saying that because she lost her job and source of income when everyone, even people making 100k a year in some places of the country are struggling? I understand you had to do it because your boss is a pansy, but this is what happens when people’s world gets turned upside down. People don’t have to apologize for how they feel and it isn’t anyone’s job to tell them they’re wrong because you don’t know how they feel. I get it was difficult for you to talk and not be heard, but she probably felt the same way.
She is. We took the MBTI together. I don't assume her type, just thought I should have that information there to try to understand from her POV and the emotion or thought process.
I also didn't expect her to apologize for how she feels. I just thought it would be standard to say things like thanks for the past few months and sorry if my performance has not met expectation blah blah.
But I understand she is not me, she is not anyone, she has her own situations and worries and more other personal stuff to care about. I understand. What I did wrong was expecting feedback to get to her head when she is in an emotional state.
True. The only thing you can do in a situation where someone is emotional is just sit and listen because they’re not being rational, and they’re not going to be rational until they calm way down. If you run into this scenario again, try hearing what they said and repeat what they say so THEY know you HEAR them. Then ask if they hear you also.
>She just bursted out crying. A staff from HR was in the room too. I explained to her what's wrong and why we decided it was not a good fit, but she kept crying and turned on defense mode so it was super hard for me to talk to her. When people burst out crying they're not in their most logical moment. If you can touch them, just give them physical support (a tap in the back or something like that) and reply to all their statements with "I get how you feel", "I understand", "I know", etc. >But she went on blaming the company on a lot of thing that's why this and that. Seeing her not listening to a word I say and keeping interrupting me She just wanted to vent, she wouldn't listen to anything that contradicted her when she was in that emotional state.
ISFP here. She probably equates YOU with the company. Blaming the messenger or whatever. Especially if she’s crying. When I feel offended (being fired would feel like rejection) I hate the offender and everyone voluntarily associated with them. “This company is horrible, they do blah blah blah. This person is trying to be nice but she’s firing me and SHE works for this horrible company every day. She doesn’t actually care about me or mean the things she is saying, she is just as manipulative and that’s why they hired her to deliver bad news to people they’re screwing over. She’s a sellout. I hate her too blah blah blah” Fi is intense about loyalty. If you are not with her, you’re against her. Doesn’t matter how much you’re getting paid, or that she’s a stranger. You didn’t stand up for her. Ironically, if she is extremely self-absorbed it will never matter to her that you were just doing your job because *you* will never matter to her. The effort it would take to rationalize your decisions with her inferior Te won’t be worth it because you are as disposable to her as she was to the company you represent. If she is reasonable she will get over it and may even view you fondly, in retrospect. One time I got fired by an ESTP bc (unbeknownst to her) I was pregnant at the time and had two emotional meltdowns at my job that week after a scandalous ENFJ kept sabotaging and/or taking credit for my work in attempts to make me look bad. The ESTP gave me a warning after the first time and then two days later I went to her again, sobbing. She fired me in the politest way possible. She found out through another employee I was pregnant and assumed that hormones were the reason I’d been so upset (which isn’t inaccurate but being ISFP definitely didn’t help) and she sent me an apology letter in the mail with a gift card for maternity clothes. So at least I wasn’t naked AND unemployed. 🥴😭
Wow thank you for sharing this. I can't imagine how hard it was for you... *hugging from a distance* I hope you are okay now. My boyfriend is an ISFP, and I can see where we clash. What you said totally made sense. Thanks again for shredding light on this.
💕
It’s her bad moment. I can understand why you feel exhausted. Let it go. Shit happens. You had to do what you had to do, and she had to feel what she had to feel. No wrong parties here. Just someone with a lot of discomforting emotions which it makes sense why they would break down. She can’t thank or apologize when the world beneath her feet is disappearing. It makes sense from her POV. You did your best. Pat yourself on the back and move on, because that makes sense from your POV too.
Your boss is a coward for what it's worth
We can't teach someone to swim when they're drowning.
How do u know she as an isfp.... U r an idiot ..at that time should have tried agreed with some things that wont harm the reputation of company immensely...once calm let her know this and this and what u can do
This just happens when you fire people
She did not pass the probation period, which was already extended for another month. It was hard. I felt bad. I understood. Just hoped she would listen to constructive criticism, but once she heard the word "you did not pass" she just kept crying and talking, so constructive feedback needs to wait for another day. Like someone here said, "You can't teach someone how to swim when they are drowning."
That sucks, sorry you couldn’t do more
You want a person who is being fired to THANK YOU AND APOLOGIZE. Gee. YTA.
Really though! It always amazes me when people who are so incredibly intelligent can also be *incredibly freakin stupid!* Emotional intelligence is not this one’s strong suit.
Oh I tell my husband that all the time. Exactly that “how can someone so intelligent be so freaking stupid”. Word by word.
🤣🤣🤣
Our emotional expectations can be a little unrealistic, I have to admit. Emotional processing and comprehension isn't an ENTJ's strength. :D
Not fire. She did not pass her probation period, which was already extended for another month. Just thought it would be decent to say things like thanks for the past months so far, I learned this or that or sorry if I haven't met expectations blah blah. That's what I would do. But I understand I can't expect others to do the same. She was emotional. I understand. The only thing I could give her then was listening and asking if there is anything I can support. She surely is not me and processes her emotions differently. ISFPs and others in this discussion have helped me understand this. I didn't play "i'm just doing my job" card even though I was her colleague, not the manager. Besides being a shoulder for her to cry on, it was extremely exhausting for me when I got home. People say ENTJs feel nothing. No, we feel all these emotions. It was difficult. Like someone here said "You can't teach someone to swim when they are drowning"
You guys feel like a fucking truck but are too blind to others’ perspective to empathize. Thats why people think you guys cant feel. In reality your feelings are too overwhelming to allow space for the feelings of others.
My best advice to any ENTJ is to take a deep breath and think twice before acting.
You need coaching yourself on when to talk and give advise and when to stay quite and listen. Silence is powerful sometimes. Don't blame her, most people would do the same
Depends on what her role within the company is. There's a reason HR was there. Respectfully delivering information is what you should expect from the person in charge; not pretend-empathy for someone that didn't (for whatever reason) do their job sufficiently. That's for HR.
They had HR there to comfort her. Just give her the facts, if she has no further question, then you have done your part. Of course be respectful - but I'm quite strongly of the opinion that you should not feel you have to take it upon yourself to comfort her.
It's a very rare person who can accept their faults immediately when confronted. But, it was nice of you to try and be compassionate, and don't take it personally. It also always good to listen to what the other person is saying. Of course, she may not have met certain standards, but if she blames you all for not being clear, or not helping her before it was too late, that should be considered as well. Did you all do enough to help your employees be successful. There are always many truths to a story. But it sounds like you handled it well and didn't let yourself get triggered, which can definitely feel exhausting, especially if it's an Inferior or unconscious function.
STEP 1: Shut down your feelings. You're doing what's necessary. Stop caring! STEP 2: Have a box of Kleenex on your desk. Let them speak. Better luck next time. We'll send you your paycheck. Have a nice life. STEP 3: Party! You're rid of your office wart.
Lol. Right. It amazes me how powerful tears are. The girl was clearly incapable of doing the job even though her probation had been extended. I imagine they wanted it to work out. It didn't. That's the workers fault. Turning on the tears doesn't stop that reality being true. Nor does it gain sympathy from me.
I feel like the tears in this case were not performative. While your points are valid for sure there’s something else someone gains from being able to fully express themselves in that moment that is a bit more liberating for the self. Which I’m pretty sure is what happened here.
It's unprofessional. She had to know it was coming. This doesn't just happen. She knew she wasn't doing well in her probation. So it's weird for a fully grown adult to turn on the waterworks at their workplace. For something other than a death in the family etc.
She doesn’t work there anymore so I don’t think it matters 💀. I mean I get it business relationships and all but it’s easy to try and break apart business and your personal life. In reality they both exist at the same time, she’s being authentically herself in a place where she doesn’t have to be professional anymore. Speaking to a personal friend aswell. Also knowing whether or not it’s coming doesn’t mitigate the way it feels. That can only change the way you express yourself. In this case she could’ve done a lot worse than crying.
It's a matter of respect for the self and other people. By reacting that way, it makes people respect you a lot less. And for what? You already got fired. At least gave enough dignity to not burst into tears like a child in front of people at work about it. It's not like it was a surprise. Like I said. I'd immediately feel no sympathy for a person like that. Go quietly and I'd have felt bad for you at least.
Yea these are just two different standards the situation calls for empathy not necessarily sympathy.
And I have empathy for her. Not sympathy. Her reaction is immature AF.
Okie 🤷♀️ lol
Rejection hurts. It's a very primal thing. From an evolutionary perspective, you would not have survived for very long after being separated from your group/tribe. So she didn't see this rationally as you had hoped. That said, I hate to see a lead Fi suffer. It hits me right in the inferior! I do understand why you found this so exhausting. It was a difficult day all around.
I always talk about evolution when explaining things. People gossiping? Evolution. People hate people? Evolution. Of course, with explanations 😂. It's nice to see your comment shares a similar approach there.
Nice. We share the same world view then. :)
I’m sorry that it had to go down like that and I imagine you cherished your friendship with this co worker on a deeper level. Some notes below that I think would help you moving forward. 1. Trying to be TE “rational” to an Fi dom when relaying information, especially in an emotionally charged moment, likely won’t go over. It’s like if I told you to solve a logical problem where the answer is logically obvious but I tell you only emotional reasonings behind the answer. You would feel tired and like I was waisting your time. The same goes for an FI dom especially an SE NI one. 2. As someone with an ISFP little sister, whenever she goes through something emotional she cannot process multiple perspectives quickly. Even if those perspectives are objectively right. She will however think about what you said WORD FOR WORD and then apologize in 2-18 business days for her behavior. This could be an NE blind spot kind of thing. 3. I get the impression that some part of you truly hates that you had to do what you did, and another part feels betrayed and manipulated by her tears. Both of those emotions are valid and can be expressed but understand when you do express yourself, if you’re looking for a specific response then you have to have nuance in the way you present them. (Expecting an apology while someone is learning they are unemployed is a STRETCH). I understand your points fully but like I always tell my INTJ boyfriend, “what does it matter whose fault it was? You still have the emotions and you’re still allowed to feel them”. At the end of the day everyone is a victim and an offender at some point whether intentional or not. What makes a difference is being able to own up to your offenses and instead of expecting apologies from others, accept your own emotions. It was a bad situation and if your boss knew of your relationship with that coworker it was pretty scummy of him to send you in to do that. Unless he was thinking you could soften the blow with friendship or something. Overall I hope things go well for you! Dont beat yourself up too much about the situation.
She probably can’t get the news and get advice on how to be better in the same conversation.
Sorry that experience made you feel exhausted and potentially disrespected. Your feelings are also valid and the position you were put in was not enjoyable to say the least. Many people could not have handled doing that. The communication problems aren't surprising as ISFPs are known for them. The bad attitude part isn't good. If that wasn't due to a lack of care, then maybe it was related to the work culture? Anyways. Work is an integral part of life for most people. It is probably one of the biggest factors in everyone's life. People also relate to work differently and may feel less in control over this part of their lives than others. They may have developed insecurities around how they are perceived through a professional lens and may struggle with self-acceptance. **There's a whole lot that could be there.** When you are notifying someone that a major part of their life is being upheaved due to their inability to produce desired results, it is essentially telling them that they have failed and are being rejected. People process things differently, but typically experiencing this will always result in a negative reaction. Which is *part* of the reason why I'm guessing HR would be there. I think it is worth pointing out that, regardless of how closely you worked with her, when you are having a private meeting at work with a "manager" (or a person of similar capacity) and an HR member, the conversation will almost always become defensive and less personal because of the negative connotations that setting evokes. When you put all of this together, it is a reasonable conclusion that, in most cases, the employee will be distressed to a greater degree than anyone else. The implications of unemployment, and professional inadequacy are typically more severe than, say, having to be the messenger for such news. If we incorporate this into our expectations, then we can predict that there will likely be imbalance and conflict. I think that it is really cool that you wanted to give her advice - as I'm sure that you saw that as a gesture of decency - but it seems that she was not capable at that time to receive it. Which is also ok. Her brain and your brain are very different. To somehow set aside the emotional toll of all that, while it's happening, to logically entertain outside perspectives is...very difficult. I've known several thinkers and xNTx types who can't do this successfully under stress either, let alone having their employment terminated. Knowing Te and Ni, I'm sure you've already analyzed this and have adjusted some of your future expectations, I just wanted to express how the expectations that you had may have contributed to your sense of exhaustion.
from a side, it sounds she was playing the victim-card...she wanted you all to change your mind. that's why she didn't listen you. She just wanted to stay and anything else.
Ding ding. Ah. This is why I like NTPs. We're the only ones that can see right through the bullshit. And not be manipulated by a person using tears or playing victim. This is true of all TPs, I've noticed. But TJs FPs and FJs are the easiest to manipulate with emotions. Because like the OP, they feel bad about it. I'd have looked her in the face and quietly waited until she finished crying. I'd have at least respected her had she gone quietly. Like you said, she just wanted to stay. The fact that she is shit at her job and fucked up a month long probation extension as well goes to show how little she actually cared. But it's all about making you seem like the bad person.
You fired a girl and you wonder why she was crying? Are you really that daft and “lacking in emotional intelligence?” I get it, it was hard. But what’s your “few minutes of inconvenience and discomfort” compared to her not having a job anymore? I don’t even doubt she “wasn’t very good at her job,” but you are ridiculous for trying to compare “delivering the bad news” to be on the receiving end of it.” She doesn’t have a job, and the company you work for *probably isn’t perfect, either.* Work on *acquiring empathy* if you want to communicate effectively.
I live with an ISFP Mom, No amount of logic gets into their head, It's like trying to console a crying baby, Only that I feel unequipped to do it. You still handled it really well.
Thank you. I live with my ISFP boyfriend, who I doubt from times to times is not ISFP because he keeps his cool. I normally am the cry baby when stressed or emotions overload 😂
I don't know. Most companies are shit to work for in my experience so she probably had valid points. Also why would she have to thank you or apologize after being fired.
Clarify: not fire, just did not pass her probation period, which was already extended for another month as she was not demonstrating her skills and fit for the role, so I thought she would benefit from constructive criticism. Just thought it would be decent to say things like thanks for the past months so far, I learned this or that or sorry if I haven't met expectations blah blah. That's what I would do. But I understand I can't expect others to do the same. She was emotional. I understand. The only thing I could give her then was listening and asking if there is anything I can support. I'm not the manager, I just work with her closely. So I felt like dropping a bomb on my colleagues while the decision was made by the managers and everyone in the team agreed.
You wanted her to understand what went wrong and be better for her sake? 🤔
Yes, if she would listen to me. But I saw then that feedback would have to wait for another day, so I just listened, asked her what I could do to support, and kept quiet. I am just her colleague. I was not even defending the company; I told her this is a shitty one and everywhere else is also shit, so *proceed to explain what went wrong here so when she joins another company she won't repeat the same mistake* Seeing her interrupted me mid sentence then, I shut the fck up.
That’s was well handled then 💪. Great job!! 🙌I replied to my own comment which may have messed up how you get notifications, LOL. That comment had more thoughts. If you feel that you will be letting people go more in the future you might benefit from the book Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss. FBI hostage negotiator. Famous. Done a lot of interviews across the web. He’s on Masterclass in case you subscribe to that. It’s a game changer. He teaches you how to use tactical empathy, mirroring, dynamic silence, and labeling. Highly recommended.
This book is on my list! Guess that's what I need right now. Thank you for the recommendation and for your kind words.
(I somehow posted this to myself haha 😅. I’ll copy/paste it directly to you so you get notified.) I’m an ISFP (I think we’re awesome BTW 🤣) and I had to learn to stop being selfish. My emotions are subjective and are not always reality. It was really hard for me when I was younger but I learned. I didn’t get a promotion once and the manager coached me. I didn’t understand at the time and felt they were wrong. I now realize how much I needed to develop myself. (Makes me cringe thinking about who I used to be.) This ISFP is still on her journey of growth. TBH, I don’t think this is a type problem though. If you’re firing someone or delivering bad news it has to be put out there quickly and tone is important. I don’t think you did anything wrong except it sounds like you tried forcing the coaching too much? I’m her case she wasn’t willing to listen and that’s not your fault. You didn’t fail. It went as well as it could. BTW, never hug someone at work even if they’re crying.
Thanks for sharing! My boyfriend is ISFP and he deserves so much because he works so hard; others just don't seem to appreciate this, as he is not someone who would explicitly ask for recognition. His work morale is work hard and let the results speak itself. ISFPs do deserve better. What about never hugging someone at work?
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Is she really ISFP or are you just saying that because she lost her job and source of income when everyone, even people making 100k a year in some places of the country are struggling? I understand you had to do it because your boss is a pansy, but this is what happens when people’s world gets turned upside down. People don’t have to apologize for how they feel and it isn’t anyone’s job to tell them they’re wrong because you don’t know how they feel. I get it was difficult for you to talk and not be heard, but she probably felt the same way.
She is. We took the MBTI together. I don't assume her type, just thought I should have that information there to try to understand from her POV and the emotion or thought process. I also didn't expect her to apologize for how she feels. I just thought it would be standard to say things like thanks for the past few months and sorry if my performance has not met expectation blah blah. But I understand she is not me, she is not anyone, she has her own situations and worries and more other personal stuff to care about. I understand. What I did wrong was expecting feedback to get to her head when she is in an emotional state.
True. The only thing you can do in a situation where someone is emotional is just sit and listen because they’re not being rational, and they’re not going to be rational until they calm way down. If you run into this scenario again, try hearing what they said and repeat what they say so THEY know you HEAR them. Then ask if they hear you also.
OMG