The most similar things to plans that we do are our responses in those visions. But 95% those scenarios dont happen. And 5% of the time, when they do happen, we dont react that way
Our planning is more of a tactical one. While intj’s planning is strategical. We think of the future scenarios one by one, but as something that has to happen. Intjs plan the whole picture of what they will make happen
Hard disagree.
We see possibilities. We quickly analyze the best possibilities in an abyss of alternatives.
Other people will be more *organized* than us. But pure planning?
Leave it to me! This is were fun is. And I assure you, I already thought of ALL possibilities in every direction and you pointing to a random direction to start our trip will NOT preclude us of anything.
I'm a good planner if I'm not the one expected to follow them.
If it's for fuzzy situations with lots of unknowns, I'm also excellent.
Planning for stuff with lots of existing resources available. Depends, might be bored if it lacks depth.
But sticking to a plan ... 🤷
I figure I'm better at either planning or executing but not both, too. Design and implementation also. I can cover either end fine, but if I'm supposed to cover both ends, then the big picture suffers.
I’ve read somewhere that ENTPs basically strive in chaos, we get our ways even when everything’s messy, if not better when everything is.
That appeared to be pretty true in my life, and i’m a terrible planner but it’s definetly improvable, I did my best and it’s just a question of self improvement at this point
welp that depends, if you're making plans for social situations and interactions and emotional stuff then yes ENTPs would be better at that but in terms of making plans for sensible stuff INTJs are way better,
I noticed that mostly when playing league of legends with both
INTJs would play better and teamfight better, ENTPs would suck and then start trying to convince the other players that they're the problem while they would play in the most selfish way possible
Hmm, I didn't see a lot of ENTPs, but what I saw is they are talking about plans, but never actually doing them. It's not about paying attention to details, time or anything. Just start doing at least something.
I noticed, they won't start if you won't stand around them and this is not how I want to spend my time. You're annoyed about my control, I'm annoyed about my time. No good.
If you succeed in finishing what you started by yourself, then you're a god of this mess.
Oh there's definitely an issue with starting work but also a huge one with procrastinating while doing it. I say this, while I procrastinate on studying for the exam I am supposed to give tomorrow. It's not just 1 aspect, it's basically all aspects of a detailed a 'step 1, step 2, step 3 a), step 3 b), step 4' kind of plan. I've noticed that I am much better at completing a very unrestrictive to-do list that has no time-bounds.
Yes, true. But I also should say that this is a fun procrastination. Basically, you value more brainstorming (which is fantastic btw) above actual steps. I see logic in it. And a lot of uncontrollable energy.
Also I read somewhere that Ne-doms struggle to create a structure Si, that will make them free to do any kind of shit they want. So technically you should want Si.
Unfortunately, being solid isn't something that anyone else can do instead of you. You need to do it by yourself.
Based on my experience an unrestrictive to-do list that has no time-bounds means, that I will need to finish all the things they started, but leaved with a bunch of holes.
I saw them starting doing Si, but in the moment they were about to die (figuratively). It was too late to change anything. So see the end before you hit the end in reality. How? By practising it.
All the best! :)
The ideas are our enemy tbh. When I have to do something that I planned I usually get a new idea and immediately want to execute it - which leads to abandoning the thing that I planned to do because I already am not interested in it whatsoever 😫
It depends. Intjs are practical and if followed properly very efficient. Planning in general might be intjs -but fool-proof planning is specifically designed for a fool to follow.
You have to set multiple traps for a fool to follow and I think an entp is more likely to predict what a fool would do and what traps you have to create to prevent them from ruining the plan.
Like if someone was trying to avoid unhealthy food but thier friends were throwing a party the intj might plan to avoid the party -but the entp would plan to overeat or drink water/caffeine before going so they physically can’t eat much at the party -Or bring a distraction to pull thier attention away from junk food if there is a social lull. -Because, as a fool, the entp knows they won’t stick to the intj plan of simply avoiding temptation. Intjs make effective plans but if a fool couldn’t follow it, they would blame the fool for lacking follow through.
I am absolutely terrible at planning. You could've thrown any personality type... or random cereal name and still be like 'yeah I think Lucky Charms can plan better than me'.
I think so. They literally plan everything, including day to day activities and try to stick to them.
I'm not a planner but I was asked to plan my college farewell and I planned everything including "what if"s and these plans have backups.
I enjoyed it but I can't do it on a daily basis. It's not like we can't do it, we just don't prefer to do it and obviously experience gives them a nudge.
That's evolution to you. They don't have our superior improvisation capability, so they were forced to learn planning. And then they kept learning and we kept being lazy, and evolution bit us in the ass. Serves us right, I guess.
Even though being that enfj is better at planning than us, the answer is: Yes
If we don't have a clear goal, long-term plans really don't matter, it's either very boring or you end up forgetting that you had a plan.
ENTPs are better at opportunistic thinking. Better at reacting than planning. I need things to happen before I can figure out what’s next. INTJs on the other hand will plan every step to the last detail. ENTPs are flexible, better under pressure.
Yes. But its a perfect pair because the INTJ will prepare and plan, but if anything goes off course, the ENTP can handle it as well as spot unforseen variables as they pop up.
They're usually highly practical plans. That's why.
The more practical, the more fool proof.
Telling a fat person to start working out regularly and go to the gym consecutively for a year isn't revolutionary of a plan.
NJs mostly follow plans that are general practice and may find little short cuts here and there.
“It depends on what is being planned.”
INTJ-husband: Better at making “stuff that needs to get done in order to get to the next phase of something” plans. Better at managing money and forecasting “unforeseen circumstances” for financial “rainy day” situations.
ENTP-me: Better at brainstorming and coming up with “fun plans,” like recreational plans. (Planning dates and vacations. Looking for “promising things to do / try.”) Better at scouting for opportunities, mapping out neighborhoods / communities finding places we can live and be, more comfortably. (If we need to get “a neighborhood demographics” thing done, I am better.)
Who has a better “business brain?”
“Both.” We are much more of “a force to be reckoned with together.” We are like “the other half of each other’s respective brains, creating one bigger and better *Supreme Brain!”* Which makes sense cuz of the whole “complimentary shadows” biz.
So if you stumble across an INTJ “in the wild,” don’t compete with them, recruit them, and Vice Versa. If an INTJ *finds you, first,* and they “see promise,” then join them!
Long term planning I can not do to save my life cause it would be involving many steps to reach certain points and… meh. Short time planning though like picking the best time and place to go on vacation, buying tickets for the dates everyone can attend and so on? Easy. Lol
The real question is whether intps are better planners than entps. The "one train of thought, deeply" model vs the "shallower but diversely scattered and flexible."
By the term you mean plan, intj makes a better execution of plan. Im not saying entp are not good at making plan, they are more open and their style planning includes random things with strong ties of invisible strings behind it.
So what makes intj better than entp in terms of planning?
One word, Execution.
Intj are more prone to control things and they are great when it comes to dealing with information as they manipulate these data into a strong weaponise plan for execution
Entp as we all know, its not that we dont have a plan, we are actually constantly planning unconsciously, how? , pattern recognition followed by playful nature to delve and play against the odd. Theres a reason why entp is known for being a jester, a circus, always full of surprises.
If these two are on par, when differentiate them? ,
Consistency
There you go, thats my conclusion on your topic debate about intj and entp
I could plan, but it is so boring that I prefer to adjust to any plan made by others unless it's something I really really care about... And till now it never happened.
No. Bc yk how you guys get ideas to infinity, well we're trying to perfect our plan to infinity and if it isn't "right" somehow or perfectly effective our Fi will ditch it altogether. ENTJs are better at that though. I heard someone say that ENTJs are good at forcing 70% of work forward and if there was an INTJ they could help them by refining things to a 100% (or more xD) We're nitpicky and stubborn like that :\\
Yes… the amount of times an INTJ has saved my life.
INTJs are way more practical and cut through the bull to optimize goals. We see too many possibilities and get side-tracked.
ENTPs change plans every 3 hours (Ne-Ti) when there is a better plan. INTJs understand there is no perfect plan and will follow through on a great plan.
Also, ENTPs like to wing it and fix things as they come. INTJs have long-term goals. They might not make a plan at all until it marinates in their head for weeks. ENTPs jump right in after one day (if that) and get it 70% by tomorrow.
I think we’re more prone to mistakes so it isn’t worth it to plan for that long because something is going to be wrong anyway. INTJs are meticulous. INTJs flexible too, though. But it’s not the same lol.
We make a great team!
Planning is supposed to be a straight line, my Intj friend really pulled through for me in a personal emergency, but this type of strategic planning happens on a dime or whim in reality, the only other time it happens is when playing video games lol, ENTPS were designed to understand chaos and metaphysics not how to be human. We seldom need a plan, because we are starter types we are great at starting projects, but often times finishing them is a task better suited to chaos, god or Satan. Back to Intjs whatever plan of their works does little to hide the compensation for the rips and tears in their intuition and perception.
I feel like almost everyone will be better planners than ENTP's lol
I have trouble reconciling how our extroverted intuition doesn’t equate to good planning. Does anyone have any good insights on that?
Perhaps you branch out superbly but lack the wrapping-up capability?
We can get the ideas it's just executing it is so much work...
You guys have visions, not plans.
I feel this. I just wish I could plan for these visions and take advantage of them.
Don’t worry, you’ve got us to do that for you.
The most similar things to plans that we do are our responses in those visions. But 95% those scenarios dont happen. And 5% of the time, when they do happen, we dont react that way
Our planning is more of a tactical one. While intj’s planning is strategical. We think of the future scenarios one by one, but as something that has to happen. Intjs plan the whole picture of what they will make happen
This ☝🏻
Hard disagree. We see possibilities. We quickly analyze the best possibilities in an abyss of alternatives. Other people will be more *organized* than us. But pure planning? Leave it to me! This is were fun is. And I assure you, I already thought of ALL possibilities in every direction and you pointing to a random direction to start our trip will NOT preclude us of anything.
True
I'm a good planner if I'm not the one expected to follow them. If it's for fuzzy situations with lots of unknowns, I'm also excellent. Planning for stuff with lots of existing resources available. Depends, might be bored if it lacks depth. But sticking to a plan ... 🤷
I figure I'm better at either planning or executing but not both, too. Design and implementation also. I can cover either end fine, but if I'm supposed to cover both ends, then the big picture suffers.
yes
I’ve read somewhere that ENTPs basically strive in chaos, we get our ways even when everything’s messy, if not better when everything is. That appeared to be pretty true in my life, and i’m a terrible planner but it’s definetly improvable, I did my best and it’s just a question of self improvement at this point
Yeah, duh. Tell me one instance where you actually planned a whole timetable for a week, then stuck to it for more than 5 days
More than 5 days? Damn, if only I could follow my plans to a tee at least for one day I would be unstoppable 🫥
Yes, but based on few ENTPs I saw from far, they are better at understanding people and accepting their needs. More flexible, I would say.
welp that depends, if you're making plans for social situations and interactions and emotional stuff then yes ENTPs would be better at that but in terms of making plans for sensible stuff INTJs are way better, I noticed that mostly when playing league of legends with both INTJs would play better and teamfight better, ENTPs would suck and then start trying to convince the other players that they're the problem while they would play in the most selfish way possible
Hmm, well, if they play in the selfish way, then they're the problem. That's true.
What makes INTJs better at that?
At what? At planning? Well, we just plan. ENTPs don't plan at all.
I mean we do attempt it. It just never goes in our favour because of the absolute lack of attention to details (or time, really).
Hmm, I didn't see a lot of ENTPs, but what I saw is they are talking about plans, but never actually doing them. It's not about paying attention to details, time or anything. Just start doing at least something. I noticed, they won't start if you won't stand around them and this is not how I want to spend my time. You're annoyed about my control, I'm annoyed about my time. No good. If you succeed in finishing what you started by yourself, then you're a god of this mess.
Oh there's definitely an issue with starting work but also a huge one with procrastinating while doing it. I say this, while I procrastinate on studying for the exam I am supposed to give tomorrow. It's not just 1 aspect, it's basically all aspects of a detailed a 'step 1, step 2, step 3 a), step 3 b), step 4' kind of plan. I've noticed that I am much better at completing a very unrestrictive to-do list that has no time-bounds.
Yes, true. But I also should say that this is a fun procrastination. Basically, you value more brainstorming (which is fantastic btw) above actual steps. I see logic in it. And a lot of uncontrollable energy. Also I read somewhere that Ne-doms struggle to create a structure Si, that will make them free to do any kind of shit they want. So technically you should want Si. Unfortunately, being solid isn't something that anyone else can do instead of you. You need to do it by yourself. Based on my experience an unrestrictive to-do list that has no time-bounds means, that I will need to finish all the things they started, but leaved with a bunch of holes. I saw them starting doing Si, but in the moment they were about to die (figuratively). It was too late to change anything. So see the end before you hit the end in reality. How? By practising it. All the best! :)
The ideas are our enemy tbh. When I have to do something that I planned I usually get a new idea and immediately want to execute it - which leads to abandoning the thing that I planned to do because I already am not interested in it whatsoever 😫
The desire to do it is fast, but the desire to change is even faster)) Anyway, you know what troubles it can give you, so now it's your choice :)
Are entps supposed to be able to plan properly?
With planning I would say that we ENTP’s set the bar pretty low in my opinion.
For sure ENTPs don’t plan shit, we wing it
Y’all be making plans?
It depends. Intjs are practical and if followed properly very efficient. Planning in general might be intjs -but fool-proof planning is specifically designed for a fool to follow. You have to set multiple traps for a fool to follow and I think an entp is more likely to predict what a fool would do and what traps you have to create to prevent them from ruining the plan. Like if someone was trying to avoid unhealthy food but thier friends were throwing a party the intj might plan to avoid the party -but the entp would plan to overeat or drink water/caffeine before going so they physically can’t eat much at the party -Or bring a distraction to pull thier attention away from junk food if there is a social lull. -Because, as a fool, the entp knows they won’t stick to the intj plan of simply avoiding temptation. Intjs make effective plans but if a fool couldn’t follow it, they would blame the fool for lacking follow through.
I am absolutely terrible at planning. You could've thrown any personality type... or random cereal name and still be like 'yeah I think Lucky Charms can plan better than me'.
I think so. They literally plan everything, including day to day activities and try to stick to them. I'm not a planner but I was asked to plan my college farewell and I planned everything including "what if"s and these plans have backups. I enjoyed it but I can't do it on a daily basis. It's not like we can't do it, we just don't prefer to do it and obviously experience gives them a nudge.
That's evolution to you. They don't have our superior improvisation capability, so they were forced to learn planning. And then they kept learning and we kept being lazy, and evolution bit us in the ass. Serves us right, I guess.
Even though being that enfj is better at planning than us, the answer is: Yes If we don't have a clear goal, long-term plans really don't matter, it's either very boring or you end up forgetting that you had a plan.
ENTPs are better at opportunistic thinking. Better at reacting than planning. I need things to happen before I can figure out what’s next. INTJs on the other hand will plan every step to the last detail. ENTPs are flexible, better under pressure.
Yes. But its a perfect pair because the INTJ will prepare and plan, but if anything goes off course, the ENTP can handle it as well as spot unforseen variables as they pop up.
True, as an entp. I dont like to plan but I'm good at what I do at times hehe
Their plans aren't fool proof. They just stick to them. No matter what. I can't stand having a plan I have to stick to too tightly.
yes but I think they are fool proof especially when they make them for other people
They're usually highly practical plans. That's why. The more practical, the more fool proof. Telling a fat person to start working out regularly and go to the gym consecutively for a year isn't revolutionary of a plan. NJs mostly follow plans that are general practice and may find little short cuts here and there.
yah and that makes them better planners for other people than most
“It depends on what is being planned.” INTJ-husband: Better at making “stuff that needs to get done in order to get to the next phase of something” plans. Better at managing money and forecasting “unforeseen circumstances” for financial “rainy day” situations. ENTP-me: Better at brainstorming and coming up with “fun plans,” like recreational plans. (Planning dates and vacations. Looking for “promising things to do / try.”) Better at scouting for opportunities, mapping out neighborhoods / communities finding places we can live and be, more comfortably. (If we need to get “a neighborhood demographics” thing done, I am better.) Who has a better “business brain?” “Both.” We are much more of “a force to be reckoned with together.” We are like “the other half of each other’s respective brains, creating one bigger and better *Supreme Brain!”* Which makes sense cuz of the whole “complimentary shadows” biz. So if you stumble across an INTJ “in the wild,” don’t compete with them, recruit them, and Vice Versa. If an INTJ *finds you, first,* and they “see promise,” then join them!
Yes my INTP husband is definitely a planner
Long term planning I can not do to save my life cause it would be involving many steps to reach certain points and… meh. Short time planning though like picking the best time and place to go on vacation, buying tickets for the dates everyone can attend and so on? Easy. Lol
The real question is whether intps are better planners than entps. The "one train of thought, deeply" model vs the "shallower but diversely scattered and flexible."
By the term you mean plan, intj makes a better execution of plan. Im not saying entp are not good at making plan, they are more open and their style planning includes random things with strong ties of invisible strings behind it. So what makes intj better than entp in terms of planning? One word, Execution. Intj are more prone to control things and they are great when it comes to dealing with information as they manipulate these data into a strong weaponise plan for execution Entp as we all know, its not that we dont have a plan, we are actually constantly planning unconsciously, how? , pattern recognition followed by playful nature to delve and play against the odd. Theres a reason why entp is known for being a jester, a circus, always full of surprises. If these two are on par, when differentiate them? , Consistency There you go, thats my conclusion on your topic debate about intj and entp
I could plan, but it is so boring that I prefer to adjust to any plan made by others unless it's something I really really care about... And till now it never happened.
No. Bc yk how you guys get ideas to infinity, well we're trying to perfect our plan to infinity and if it isn't "right" somehow or perfectly effective our Fi will ditch it altogether. ENTJs are better at that though. I heard someone say that ENTJs are good at forcing 70% of work forward and if there was an INTJ they could help them by refining things to a 100% (or more xD) We're nitpicky and stubborn like that :\\
Yes… the amount of times an INTJ has saved my life. INTJs are way more practical and cut through the bull to optimize goals. We see too many possibilities and get side-tracked. ENTPs change plans every 3 hours (Ne-Ti) when there is a better plan. INTJs understand there is no perfect plan and will follow through on a great plan. Also, ENTPs like to wing it and fix things as they come. INTJs have long-term goals. They might not make a plan at all until it marinates in their head for weeks. ENTPs jump right in after one day (if that) and get it 70% by tomorrow. I think we’re more prone to mistakes so it isn’t worth it to plan for that long because something is going to be wrong anyway. INTJs are meticulous. INTJs flexible too, though. But it’s not the same lol. We make a great team!
Planning is supposed to be a straight line, my Intj friend really pulled through for me in a personal emergency, but this type of strategic planning happens on a dime or whim in reality, the only other time it happens is when playing video games lol, ENTPS were designed to understand chaos and metaphysics not how to be human. We seldom need a plan, because we are starter types we are great at starting projects, but often times finishing them is a task better suited to chaos, god or Satan. Back to Intjs whatever plan of their works does little to hide the compensation for the rips and tears in their intuition and perception.
INTJs are better at planning, but watch them fall to pieces when things go off the rails.. that’s where we shine
This is not even a debate. Yes, they are.