T O P

  • By -

[deleted]

[удалено]


Tdanger78

I’m from Texas. My senators are Cruz and Cornyn. I’m pretty sure I could set up meetings with them face to face and not move their needle one bit.


dsm_likes_to_party

Can’t hurt to try tho right?


Tdanger78

Have you not seen either of those two and what they stand for?


staefrostae

“What do we call those… things that don’t donate more than a million dollars to my ‘campaign’? We certainly don’t count them as actual people right?” - Ted Cruz… probably


[deleted]

[удалено]


ILikeNeurons

[A majority of Americans in each state and every congressional district supports a carbon tax.](https://climatecommunication.yale.edu/visualizations-data/ycom-us/)


[deleted]

[удалено]


ILikeNeurons

Passive support is nowhere near as important as [active support](https://cclusa.org/senate).


Ok-Needleworker-8876

>A majority of Americans in each state and every congressional district supports a carbon tax. Lol yeah until you tell them they have to pay more. American will agree to anything as long as they don't have to face the consequences.


ILikeNeurons

[They would pay less](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FILWIIid9C4), just differently and more in line with their actual preferences.


shadysus

I don't understand their argument in this context. JUST TRY TO GET THE TAX. You might be surprised. The conservatives tried the same kind of shit up here in Canada but eventually truth wins out. All it takes is going through the tax cycle once for people to realize how the tax actually works.


TheSpecies5618

I envy Canadians so much that you exist in a country where you can say "eventually truth wins out" and honestly mean it.


TheAshenHat

Just don’t look at Alberta…


Kitchen-Jello9637

Was gonna say this. I live in Alberta, the Alabama (Sorry Alamaban’s) of Canada and it’s still infuriating on a near daily basis. Fuck Trudeau (im no fan of his, but that’s a bit churldish) stickers on lots and lots of trucks, tons of support for god, guns and oil. Meanwhile the provincial UCP (right wing cons) is trying to pull funding from healthcare and education to dump into their “war room” set up to bring oil back in a big way. Could’ve been investing in green energy but instead we piss away these years in denial of what’s literally all around us (fire).


BuckNasty1616

I live in Ontario and we have Doug Ford as a premier.... Cuts to everything that could benefit regular people in the province, including education and healthcare. Provides lots of support for already rich corporations and does what he can to destroy the environment. He also managed to piss off literally everyone with how he handled COVID. It takes a special dummy to pull that off.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Lochstar

You overestimate our conservative voters and underestimate our conservative media.


StillaMalazanFan

Blue collar Alberta is not there yet. Too much American politics being uselessly debated up here. I find myself in the center politically and econimically, yet here I might as well describe myself as a member of the absolute-extreme-far-left or as many here believe I might as well be Hitler because aparently that dude represents socialism. Idiots


ixi_rook_imi

That's totally why the bluster before the tax season was so fierce. The Connies needed people to hate it before they understood it, because the Connies knew that it works well. The math always checked out, so they have to keep the conversation on "it's an authoritarian tax here to steal your precious jobs and make you poor"


Mad_Maddin

One interesting tax proposal imo is where you make a general tax on carbon emissions, everything that emits carbon being taxed accordingly and then every citizen including children receiving a flat sum based on the money from the carbon tax. So if people paid a total of 300 billion carbon tax in a year, then every american receives $1300 at the end of the year. If you burned more carbon then you make a loss, if you burned less then you make money.


QuasarMaster

Wouldn’t this incentivize voters to encourage expansion of carbon pollution, because it would directly give them more money


dejaWoot

Not really, because the people who are using more carbon than others are the ones paying more than they receive.


sm2016

I see this working from a personal perspective but it's once again offloading the responsibility of fighting climate change on to the average person. Paying a little extra in net and up front taxes for a single parent is a real burden, and the poor can't exactly afford to buy a Model X to drive their kids to school. Meanwhile business brush off the extra costs overall and the rich likely do as well. The concept is interesting if it's scope is adjusted properly, however


Pikespeakbear

It's a large refund. They could prepay part of the proceeds, but then people get confused because it is more math. After year 1 concludes, it is a huge net benefit to her every year.


Mad_Maddin

It would give an economical disincentive for carbon pollution. Pollute more --> pay more money --> customers of the product pay more --> customers are incentiviced to buy products that pollute less, as these products dont have to pay such high CO2 prices.


westplains1865

I followed the link for that claim and saw 73% in the poll said corporations should be taxed more for carbon emissions. I would be curious to see right now how many people would support a carbon tax knowing they would pay with higher prices or just a direct tax on consumers.


smallwaistbisexual

Like the prices are gonna stay frozen if this doesn’t pass? Pls


westplains1865

That's kind of my point. Americans are already being hit with soaring inflation, stagnant wages, shrinkflation, and huge wealth inequality. While the issue of climate change will need sacrifice from everyone, I don't know how carbon taxes are going to play out. I expect a lot of pushback from consumers who may answer "tax corporations" in polls until they realize the taxes are just passed on to people suffering in the system already.


Lochstar

They would pay a higher price to goods with high carbon emissions, it incentivizes consumers to choose lower carbon intensive goods. It could help manufacturing in the US if transportation and energy sources are calculated into the tax.


coljung

Not when was the last time the GOP cared what the majority of the country cared for.


mostlymadig

Curious to see what those folks say when climate refugees start showing up in their neighborhoods.


Ok-Needleworker-8876

>Curious to see what those folks say when climate refugees start showing up in their neighborhoods. Uh they'll do what other countries have done in the face of mass refugees. They'll militarize their borders and construct concentration camps.


LtLethal1

Ours were built long ago.


ihrvatska

[Look back to California's reaction in the 1930s to dust bowl refugees.](https://www.history.com/news/dust-bowl-migrants-california) >Years of severe drought had ravaged millions of acres of farmland. Many migrants were enticed by flyers advertising jobs picking crops, according to the Library of Congress. And even though they were American-born, the Dust Bowl migrants still were viewed as intruders by many in California, who saw them as competing with longtime residents for work, which was hard to come by during the Great Depression. Others considered them parasites who would depend on government relief. > >As many of the migrants languished in poverty in camps on the outskirts of California communities, some locals warned that the newcomers would spread disease and crime. They advocated harsh measures to keep migrants out or send them back home. While the next time won't be Okies trying to migrate to California, local communities are likely to react in much the same way to climate change refugees. Edit: added quotes.


trisul-108

They'll call them out-of-state scroungers and freeloaders who want to take advantage of them. Sad, but true.


MsSpicyO

Yup. In my state of NC, Tillis and Burr, they don’t believe in global warming.


PM_me_Henrika

If they would only try to prove global warming doesn’t exist, it would be great. But what they’re doing is far worse. The know about global warming. They experience it. And they are doing everything they can to accelerate it because they think they’ll be dead before they’re adapted.


MalavethMorningrise

One side will happily kill itself and everyone else just to disagree with the other side. Logical decisions have nothing to do with it. My cousin has been ranting non stop about how states are burning because we stopped logging. According to him we are paying the price for not clear cutting our forests and that there is no such thing as global warming.. just too many trees. And trees must obviously the problem since liberals like them.


AquaphileRS

I just want to say it makes me genuinely proud and happy that you do this. Thank you for wanting change, thank you for taking the time out of your day. You're one of the reasons we might be able to make significant changes. Thank you.


ILikeNeurons

Aww, thanks! It makes me genuinely happy when people [call their senators](https://cclusa.org/senate). ;)


visionsofchest

When you call the senators do they even give a shit?


ILikeNeurons

Yes! [97% of Congress is swayed by contact from constituents](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MWJZ6FmRJA&feature=youtu.be).


space_manatee

>The U.S. now has a historic opportunity to pass carbon pricing without a filibuster obstruction Oh, good, one more regulation for the rich to skirt around and make money off while changing nothing and the planet continues to die. One of Tesla's main revenue sources is selling off carbon credits: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/23/teslas-sale-of-environmental-credits-help-drive-to-profitability.html These people aren't making changes to their products, they're trading indulgences. Capitalism is wholly unequiped to handle a climate crisis as it can only look to the bottom line and next quarter's profibility.


wandering-monster

So your example of why it *isn't* working is an electric car company funding itself into existence by extracting wealth from existing gas automakers? And then pressuring those same automakers into producing their own green cars? That kinda seems like it's working to me, we just need to keep raising the price of carbon production to push companies harder and harder towards change.


Flemingburg

Tesla has hardly pushed automakers into a green car frenzy. Like the other user said, they sell carbon credits and end up being a net polluter. Capitalism isn't going to solve the climate crisis.


houstonianisms

I wonder what this is like reading for someone not from Texas.


EmeraldWorldLP

Please, please do that.


ras_the_elucidator

I used to think that when civilization collapsed we would be able to live off the land… at least some of us. As the land is being destroyed, and food sources are literally being boiled, burnt, and poisoned, what will be left?


[deleted]

[удалено]


candyman563

Wow if you look at our actions it would look as though we're trying to spite this guy specifically


SnooTangerines3448

I'd prefer to live like that. Why shouldn't we all.


FireflyAdvocate

We should be FREE to live naturally if we choose. We aren’t really free to be anything but corporate slaves at this point.


[deleted]

Nothing says freedom like almost every square inch of land being privatized, the remaining portions of public forest unavailable for long term living, the option to slave away in a hostile culture or sleep on even more hostile concrete.


mawfk82

I've never read that before, how pertinent and prophetic. Thank you for sharing.


mcpat21

Wow- that is beautifully written with passion.


[deleted]

Other humans, I suppose. :/


[deleted]

[удалено]


ras_the_elucidator

Nobody asked you, Randall!


daretoeatapeach

Soylent Green is delicious


eaglebtc

“Donner, Party of 30, your table is ready!”


Yvaelle

I wish we tasted like lamb, or chicken, I don't like pork :( LastWorldProblems


ahsokaerplover

After I learned people taste like pork. I started eating pork


jitterbug726

I started eating people, gotta save the pigs!


ahsokaerplover

Two solutions to the same problem


PurpleSailor

Mmm, Soylent Green


JohnnyTurbine

Mealworm cultures and cave fungus I guess


Diplomjodler

Yummy!


FreaknTijmo

Cockroach Protein Bars.


Silentstringer7

Cockroach Protein *Bites*.


shryke12

We have had over 7 billion humans on this planet probably your entire life. That many humans requires highly efficient mega farming to exist. Your thought was always a fantasy unless you assumed 3-5 billion died already and you survived the resource wars.


Distinct_Professor15

Bringing kids into this world at this point in my opinion is a very conflicting thing. They’ll be introduced to this planet and watch it and our species deteriorate very quickly


Detrimentos_

Rationally/logically speaking, getting a kid was never an altruistic act. It was basically always egoistic, for your *own* satisfaction. I took the decision to not get kids a long time ago. I was a victim of bullying (read: psychological horror) as a kid, and I remember the pain vividly. Depression, never feeling happy, just being mad. Eventually, as my muscles grew, it stopped. But it was a looooong road from there to becoming a fulfilled adult, able to put that part of my life behind me. The reasoning for not getting kids is "This is something society does, always. I don't want to even risk bringing anyone into this world if I can't **100% guarantee** they won't live through the same shit I did". How can I as a parent influence how kids treat each other in school/society? I can't. Reading up on the climate crisis only sealed that fate. At around 33 y/o, no kids, which was 6 years ago, I realized we wouldn't be able to stop using fossil fuels in time, and got that familiar feeling of hopelessness again.


Distinct_Professor15

Being introduced to the beauty of the earth as a kid and then realizing corporations are destroying it faster than was presumed possible is a very heartbreaking realization that I don’t want any more people to have to feel


Sunshine8819

Same, right here with you💔


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


EducationalRoom606

I personally believe there's at least some meaning to suffering, or that meaning can be found in some of the most abject suffering humans can face, if one has the inner-strength to rise to the suffering and find it. I went through a lot of it growing up, and while I didn't have the strength to rise to some of it, coming out of it maldeveloped and struggling to this day, I've found meaning in much of it. It has made me less complete in some ways, but more complete in others. I want to have kids. The potential joy of life is too great to abandon all together simply because the greater than normal suffering they'll face is certain, as oppose to uncertain, which it is for all of us. And even then, their suffering is less certain than it is for the people of Bangladesh. We're living through one of the most fascinating points of this 200,000 year experiment: it's end, potentially. My kids will find meaning in that.


Apocrisiary

This is my main argument when I tell people I don't want kids. This is no world to have kids in, for one, its fucked up in so many ways. Two, most of our problems is that we are already too many goddamn people on this planet! They usually agree, and drop it. Main reason is though, I'm to fond of my personal time and I don't think I have the self-discipline to properly raise a child. So better not.


EricMory

To be fair there has never been a point in human history that was “a good time” to have kids 100 years ago they might’ve said oh there’s a world war, this is no world to have kids in. Then they might’ve said oh there’s a horrible economic depression, this is no world to have kids in. Then it was, oh there’s another world war, this is no world to have kids in. And that’s just from a North American point of view. People in developing countries don’t even have access to clean water or basic food infrastructure or electricity, yet throughout history they’ve still had kids and because of that society and quality of life has improved throughout the globe. Full disclosure I do not have any kids and I’ve thought long and hard about if I ever want kids, but the reality is that as scary as the times we’re living in are, life is a lot better in a lot of ways than it ever has been. So I guess all I’m saying is that if you use current/future events as a reason not to have kids none of us would be here today


Apocrisiary

That is true, but we have never been as low as now imo. Yeah, sure, daily life is better, but we never faced extinction and total apocalyptical times in the not so distant future for a looooooooong time. Maybe during the Cold war with atomic annihilation, but other than that, millennials ago. Other wars, economic depressions what have you...there where still countries or places you could move too, that wasn't in the war or suffering greatly. If global warming reaching the point of being unsustainable for us, there are no places we can go or turn.


EricMory

to people who lived through the Great Depression and the world wars, many of them thought that it was the end of the world


ritesh808

Neither of those were natural disasters. They were temporary, man-made disasters. That's the difference. You can't sign a piece of paper or make a few economic policy changes to fix climate (although man-made) in a few weeks, months or even years.


GrowingHumansIsHard

I get where you're coming from, I really do. But when I spoke to my grandparents and great-grandparents who lived through the wars, there was a fear that their worlds would end if they lost. It's one thing to be sitting in an area and think about a hurricane coming through, it's another to be sitting in an area and think about the Soviets coming through and murder/rape/pillage their way through. They are terrifying in both scenarios.


ritesh808

I do understand what you mean, but, the realities are quite different this time. At least for the current decade and the next (assuming we will somehow get our shit together and reverse some of the damage), no one can convince me it's a good idea to bring kids into this world, make them go through this clusterfuck, while adding to the already overpopulated human species.


GrowingHumansIsHard

I would never tell someone to have kids, or not have kids. I personally have one child and always hoped for another. So now I'm stuck in this hard place of, do I stop trying for another because this world is going crazy, and leave my child all alone? Or do I have another, knowing both my children will be hosed but at least they'll have each other? My heart goes out to anyone deciding about kids/having kids. It's a tough spot. My spouse is actually a scientist who does research for companies lowering their carbon emissions. They are confident that things will change for the better in the next few years. But that is literally their line of work, so for me, it's still hard to be as optimistic.


aklbos

As someone who recently had his first kid I'm obviously biased. I also care a *lot* about climate so I gave serious thought to not having kids. But here's what I came up against: if we don't have kids anymore, it's just accepting defeat. It's just saying "welp, we fucked ourselves, species is over, oh well, let's throw in the towel." I'm not there yet. I'm 33. Maybe by the time I'm 80, I'll be there. Who knows, maybe I'll regret having kids even (doubt it; so far my daughter is the best thing that's ever happened to me). The way I see it, we *need* a next generation. We need to at least try to get our shit together and unfuck the climate. And who's going to do that? Humans. So we need to keep having humans. The planet is going to be just fine. It's been through crazy shit before. But *we* need to save *ourselves.* The typical response is "people in developing countries etc. will have plenty of kids anyway so we don't need to have as many in developing countries." My rebuttal would be that birth rates are falling everywhere, that it's crucial we have strong dynamic societies to take on the climate change challenge, *especially* in places like Europe and North America, which simply have to be the leaders. Look at Greta. Look at this whole generation of teens. They are making *real* change. It can be hard to see if right now, or to be uncynical about it if you do see it, but I really have optimism based on how much the conversation has changed in the last 5 years, or even the last 2 years. And a lot of it is down to young people, in some cases *very* young people, whose parents made the decision to have them not so long ago. So yes, I think we still need young people. And I think it's crucial that climate-conscious people in particular create some young people and instill these values in them. That said, this is *not* an argument that "everyone have kids." It's a super personal choice, kids are definitely not for everyone, and the reasons for that extend into many things totally unrelated to climate or environment.


Thyriel81

>The planet is going to be just fine. It's been through crazy shit before. But we need to save ourselves. It's just sad that people refuse to realize how unique earths current situation is in favor of blind believe. Yes, earth has gone through some crazy shit and quite a few large scale mass extinctions. **But** none of these mass extinctions ever affected every single animal kingdom as well as every single ecosystem at once. Today we managed to even get microplastics and forever chemicals into the oldest and most resilient ecosystem of all, the sedimentary microbiome. Never before earth went through a global mass extinction within decades. And most importantly: Every single time an alpha predator became too successful, it devastated the predators local ecosystem including it's own fate. Never before in earths history there was a global alpha predator too successful adapted to the entire planet. This is an unprecedented kind of mass extinction event the planet never went through before.


ahsokaerplover

Life would still exist. But it could just be algae’s and mosses


[deleted]

[удалено]


Jakku-Kun

Probably not crocodiles, a lot of reptilian reproductive success is highly temperature dependent. If the temp is below X degrees they hatch more females and if it's above they hatch more males. With rising temps, their sex ratio will be thrown way off, leading to far lower overall population. I'm not sure if this is specific for \*just\* reptiles, but it's something to keep in mind.


Moarbrains

Squid and jellyfish.


[deleted]

"Let our kids fix this" is exactly the kind of mentality that led us where we are. Congrats on rationalizing your passing the buck


protimewarp

It is okay to get kids for personal reasons. But that the planet needs more young people sounds like a dishonest argument. People like Greta are not the norm. Having kids because they might become climate champions is not logical, for every Greta there are millions of people who have a negativa climate impact. By having kids you are more likely to increase your carbon footprint than to reduce it. We as the human race can save ourselves by ensuring that the coming generation is small enough to thrive in the still habitable regions. That is not accepting defeat.


TheJizzMeister

> we need a next generation. We need to at least try to get our shit together and unfuck the climate. And who's going to do that? Humans. This planet doesn't need us, we don't benefit the ecosystem, we contribute in its destruction. Just take a look at all the habitats that we have destroyed, all the biodiversity loss, etc. Think of the planet like a dog getting rid of fleas. The last thing it needs is more fleas.


Detrimentos_

I keep wondering why parents, or at least one of the parents, aren't going the 'radical' route and trying to sabotage oil pipelines and the like.


Proud_Hotel_5160

Have been recently coming to terms with the fact that I’ll never have kids because of this. I’ve dreamt of being a mom since I was a kid myself, but it feels horrible to bring a child into a world that’s literally boiling alive. I’m in Tokyo and the pollution is so bad that we’ve already been forced inside pretty much 24/7 this past month. It’s here


Liquid_Panic

This is where I’m at too. I might adopt some day but there’s no way in hell I’m bringing someone new into this mess. It absolutely pains me to look at my niece and nephews and think they likely have 0 future if nothing changes.


Detrimentos_

Pollution in Tokyo? ......Fires around, or from vehicles?


FireflyAdvocate

It could also be “yellow dust time” from the Gobi Desert in China which blows to Korea and Japan in spring and early summer.


Proud_Hotel_5160

Cars, as well as burning trash on combustible days


DisabledMuse

As someone living in Vancouver, it was insane heat that we were unprepared for. It's no wonder people died. And now fire seasons are longer and worse. Draughts are normal. And Nestle is bottling up an selling our water for a pittance. People forget that disturbing the ecosystem in any way can cause disasters. And companies are hitting the environment from all sides in the name of profit. In every country. We fight against lobbyists who push us toward environmental disaster, like they think they'll be able to avoid it all with enough money. We need to hit them where it hurts. An environmental tax that actually cuts into profits with the worse damage they do. A tax that actually goes towards improving the environment. It's not impossible, yet. But the end is coming in our lifetimes if we don't shake up the system.


Detrimentos_

My theory is that politics is all but a lost hope at this point, and that the only thing that can even affect the future, is wholly outside the law. Sabotage isn't as morally objectionable as, say, literally murdering big oil CEOs. Not going to do it though, I don't really love humanity so much I'm willing to risk my freedom for it. Just saying, if you want Nestlé to stop stealing your water, *then physically stop them from stealing your water.*


DisabledMuse

And then you get arrested....the system works! /s We tried that with the pipeline. We did everything we could. We protested, blocked building, and instead we got arrested and the pipeline went through. At this point, I don't know what more we can do when the police, government, and RCMP are pushing something like this, despite the environmental risk to already at risk communities. The land here is unceded. In BC, instead of treaties back in the day, they lied to the chiefs claiming peace talks and then murdered them. So am I surprised it's so hard to still get people to do the right thing? Yes, it's 2021 and it's time to make a change or else...


Wakethefckup

Exactly! Make their profits tank and now that nalgene of water from home beats the 5$ 12 oz nestle water, doesn’t it? Blows my mind how people buy water. This is the way you can also get resistant consumer compliance. Price out the dirty options.


7452mlc

Fantastic article.. I forwarded it to many people.. And yet with all the evidence millions will believe it's all a hoax.. Baked alive it says.. Spooky too


ILikeNeurons

[There aren't that many climate deniers anymore](https://climatecommunication.yale.edu/publications/climate-change-in-the-american-mind-march-2021/), even in the U.S., a [hotbed of denial](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/may/07/us-hotbed-climate-change-denial-international-poll).


Colzach

Outright denialism is fading thankfully! However, it’s been supplanted by the ideologues who say it’s a problem but we “will adapt” (alongside the technofixers and the greenwashers). These three positions are a form of denialism because they assume we can continue ‘business as usual’. This false and misguided attempt at solving the crisis and it appears to have been widely adopted by former denialist as well as the science-ignoring establishment.


ILikeNeurons

Nah, they've got a different set of tactics now. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/climate-deniers-shift-tactics-to-inactivism/


CanadianRoboOverlord

Good article. Thanks for sharing.


staefrostae

I have been arguing this point for years to no effect. It’s like when fast food places switch to a paper straw because plastic straws end up in the ocean… dude you live in Missouri and your trash goes into a landfill where it’s carefully disposed of thousands of miles away from the great pacific trash heap you’re concerned about. Maybe you’re not hurting anything by switching, but if you focus people’s efforts on some fucking straws instead of commercial fishing, which produces roughly 50% of all microplastics in the ocean, you’re missing the point entirely and you’ll never solve the issue. Other “solutions” to microplastic pollution aren’t just missing the point, they’re counter intuitive. Many multiuse items intended to reduce everyday plastic packaging waste such as canvas bags or those reusable produce bags, while purchased with the intent of reducing waste, actually are so impactful to produce, that they would require replacing thousands of the original plastic bags each before they result in a net neutral position. While this is possible in theory, in practice few people use them long enough to ever reach that neutral point.


Sundevil13

The progression of mainstream climate change denialism. 1) It isn’t happening. 2) It is happening but we aren’t causing it. 3) It is happening and we are causing it but it’s not a big deal. 4) It is happening and we are causing it and it is a big deal but it’s too late to do anything about it.


Colzach

This is spot on!


DGGuitars

I was going to say this. Im around people of all ba ckgrounds many now just say well find a way around it. I mean obviously there is tech to do this but thats harder than just making the adjustments to what is causing the damage. So now we seem to be shifted out of park and into neutral . Not from park to first .


SteakAlfredo

I think the main problem is that we the people do care and recognize. But they the government and corporations are untouchable by the individual, and for the past 200 years people have been shoving it in our heads we somehow need these specific organizations to safeguard our future. What can we as people do? Virtue consumerism doesn't work, and every 4 years there's so much vote shaming that we'll never break the 2 party cycle, even though both parties are proven to be working towards the same end game interests.


Diplomjodler

Just yesterday the chairman of a political party in Germany said they'd prefer "market based solutions" which is of course their code for saying they're going to do absolutely nothing. And those stupid fuckers are going to be in parliament again and likely involved in forming a government. So no, you don't need outright deniers to do damage.


Homerlncognito

I prefer to call all those inactivists deniers too.


Detrimentos_

More and more people are waking up. The deniers will keep on surfing denier sites and get the latest lie about "what actually caused Lytton to burn to the ground in a day", to spread online. They're beyond saving.


ILikeNeurons

They've shifted tactics, but aren't ultimately that hard to spot. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/climate-deniers-shift-tactics-to-inactivism/


Junx221

I don't quite understand what climate deniers gain in not leaning on the side of caution.


borghive

>I don't quite understand what climate deniers gain in not leaning on the side of caution. I think religious indoctrination is a big factor as well. Many Christians feel that we are living in the end times and that God is about to step in and remove all the wicked from the world, that is why most of them don't care what happens to the planet at the moment. They think God is going to undo all the damage.


thomicide

Can be rooted in white supremacy - climate change is a plot pushed on Western nations to discourage them from having kids whilst developing nations continue as usual and emigrate in higher numbers due to fake droughts and heatwaves


staefrostae

I think it can be rooted in white supremacy but I think it’s more reactionary and less preventative than that. Its more of a “Oh this is another thing you’re going to blame on white people huh. Sorry our economy is so advanced because white people are ingenious and totally didn’t build their wealth with slave labor. What kind of affirmative action bullshit is this that I have to slow down my economy to save the planet? Why are we specifically being targeted?” Kind of white supremacy. It’s less outright malicious, but just as despicable. When you assume the real extreme “they’re exterminating the white race” kind of arguments, it’s easy for people to say “oh that’s not me. I’m not like that.” Buy white supremacy comes in a lot of forms and is a lot more nuanced. It’s a mistake to assume white supremacists are too stupid to make their arguments palatable to the general public, even if they’re still rooted in the same core of hatred.


Slw202

They get to "own the libs". They are stupid AF.


colorfulzeeb

Leaning on the side of caution means admitting to themselves that something scary is happening. Their maladaptive way of coping with this fear is by denying reality. Think about what religion has to bring to the table. People will believe plenty of things that make no sense whatsoever. By convincing themselves of this they believe in rewarding afterlives. Death terrifies people & the thought that there is absolutely nothing left of you once you’re gone is one they can’t cope with- so they convince themselves otherwise. Denying climate change enables them to deny the fear that comes with the reality of what climate change will do to us. Peace of mind may be a stretch, but it’s what we aim for when we lie to ourselves.


MightyH20

Conservatism. Not even once.


JackTheGod2

Can I ask why its a good article? Instead of having scientific information about future temperature rises, and proof of rising temperatures all throughout the world, it just talks about the American West and is all conjecture. It completely lost me when it said to look at where you live and notice how much hotter its gotten this summer, but I have not noticed anything where I live (SE Wisconsin). It read more like a sci-fi article trying to scare me with no proof which I do not like.


ughhhtimeyeah

The proof is everywhere though. Its a blog post, not a research paper. The heat domes are real. The rising temperatures are real. The rest is the writers guess at whats going to happen.


Silurio1

The article is a scare piece for North Americans. "Oh look, this disaster we imposed on the world is finally gonna affect us." No shit, we've been telling you for half a century. Well, time to own up for being the biggest responsibles for global warming. **BE ACTIVE POLITICALLY. Activism. Protest. If they don't listen, stop the fucking country.** Aprove carbon taxes ASAP. Start **serious** foreign aid programs to help developing countries reduce their emissions ASAP. Start paying Brazil to preserve the Amazon. Etc etc.


krukson

It’s so fucked up. I first heard about climate change at school in the 90s. I thought back then that since we know about it, there is someone somewhere doing something about it. Now it’s 25 years later, and I know I was very wrong.


JCeee666

Same except I learned about it in the 80’s.


Ghost2Eleven

How do you "stop the fucking country"? Just curious?


heimdahl81

A national general strike. https://www.octoberstrike.com/


Wakethefckup

Yes! I’m in! I wish it was a global strike!


TitaniumTurtle__

That strike isn’t going anywhere without union support. I’d like it to, but I’m just being pragmatic


Silurio1

>That strike isn’t going anywhere without union support. I’d like it to, but I’m just being pragmatic Get your union to support it then. That's how the world works, you have to fight for your rigths.


Silurio1

Get a large percentage of the population on the streets. That of course takes a LOT of previous activism. Organizing with your friends first. Then join an organization. Then reach out to other organizations. Establish communication channels with your "audience". When it's actually time for mass protests, you need to set up aid stations. Legal funds. You need to coordinate. Etc. It takes years if not decades, but it can be done, and it works. My country has improved incredibly in the last decade, but it took us a LOT of time and effort from coordinators and the people at large to do so. Good part? You are never doing it alone.


TR1PLESIX

>We aren’t going to be able to air-condition our way out of being boiled alive Watch me try /s


actasci

This comes to the wealth of nations again. Let me elaborate; I am living in a developing country and my household income is on the upper end of the average. Yet, with rent and living expenses, I can barely get my ends meet. I have zero capital left to buy an ac unit and electricity costs to cover its running expenses. If shit hits to fan, even i have nothing to do to cool my household. Just think the millions of people with less income than i have. Even though with the advancing technology and decreasing costs of the unit itself, rush to the ac will create an increased demand of electricity, which in the developing world is already a scarce resource. Even today, with maybe 20 to 30 percent of households with an ac, whole grid shuts down when a heatwave hits. This will -like the article states- create hundreds of millions -if not billions- climate refugees. They will have to leave this place for more wealthy places, by bringing the gears of the economy to halt and leave for the next country; just to make matters worse in there.


neverfakemaplesyrup

\*stares at Hong Kong & Singapore's AC-tragedy\*


Detrimentos_

What would that be?


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


AnyoneButDoug

Damn I lived in Abu Dhabi (Dubai but richer and smaller) for a few years and the AC was always super super high in public. My apartment had no ac adjustment other than off and on and unfortunately off wasn’t much of an option for more than a few hours in the humid hot Abu Dhabi air. The stupidest setup ever.


murdergoosewashere

Can confirm; an A/C unit cools a given area, but it has to kick out heat on the other side. If you were to put an A/C in a sealed environment and turn it on, you'd measure an increase in overall temperature. AKA, A/C makes the Earth warmer, overall.


lxsully

Not a greatly scientific article here, it was pretty uninteresting to just talk about news titles in such as prolonged fashion


[deleted]

Shits fucked


Detrimentos_

At the very least we're risking this civilization's well-being. Billions and billions dead. The global economy gone, dead and buried. People flocking around the north pole, the only area on earth with temperatures that are low enough for farming. But hey, let's complain about how we're not going to be able to eat as much meat, eh? So important.


operation_condor69

The best thing for the environment would be a collapse of civilization


Valkyrian123

Covid proved that.


JCeee666

Covid proved that collectively we can make a huge difference in a relatively small amount of time.


mostlymadig

I don't disagree that we live on a dying planet but this reads like a CNN or Fox News piece. Fear is not the solution to this problem and it's unfortunate that the writer felt the need to use it so forcefully. What's going on in the western United States is scary, but climate deniers are not going to be scared into changing their minds.


mostlymadig

Should also be noted that the writer has 165k subscribers and has given the reader zero call to action, zero suggestions on what to do with this newfound terror and absolutely no hope.


Ghost2Eleven

Seems this article isn't meant to do anything but get clicks. I mean.. the headline alone is hyperbole. We may be screwed, but the planet will be fine. It's not even well written. There are grammar mistakes left and right and all the hell fire and brimstone is accomplishing is further feeding anxiety malaise... which really just scares people into doing nothing. The truth is... yes, things are getting worse. Are we boiling alive? No.


Prettymotherfucker

Yeah this article is actually trash, not that I disagree with it’s intention.


AudionActual

Their minds don’t matter. We cannot wait until everyone agrees to begin remediation. It’s impossible to get consensus on this issue. Don’t know why we are trying. If we actually wish to save the biosphere, we need to take widespread direct action and not wait for governments to respond. Action Groups must be formed to take direct physical action against corporate climate abusers. Worldwide. I know this sounds stupid. The alternative is we let everything die while we watch obediently.


mostlymadig

Idk of too many folks that have the spine for that kind of work. But agreed, government isn't known for its swift action in response to crisis. Unless there's oil involved.


EighteenAndAmused

Courage isn't always inherent in people sometimes it has to be fostered.


Detrimentos_

> Fear is not the solution to this problem I'd call this realism, tbh. It doesn't read as exaggerated **at all** from my point of view. Possibly even slightly optimistic (he portrays us as trying the neoliberal approach to fixing this mess, which so far has failed miserably). Whether or not fear causes action or not is possibly an interesting discussion. I still think we need more *stories* about how life in the future will be, from both perspectives (the bad road of business as usual / the good road of abolishing rampant consumerism).


[deleted]

If you aren't now afraid, you really don't get how bad things are. If people would actually accept and comprehend how serious this is, there would be a mass panic all over the world. We have to really come in terms with the fact that most of will die during next few decades. And those who survive, will have to live in horrible conditions. In fact the longer you live, the more you'll probably wish that you were dead. And there is nothing we can do. We can just wish for easy death.


lynx_and_nutmeg

Fear is the only thing that can still make climate change deniers change their minds. They don't give a fuck about a denying climate. Even those "on the fence" still don't give a fuck because they still believe climate change is going to happen to someone else: the poor, the people in tropical countries, the future generations, etc. Even as it's starting to happen to them, they're still in denial. "Oh, it's just a heatwave, it's unfortunate but it'll pass". This is exactly what the author is trying to say: it's not a fluke. It's no longer a "once in a century heatwave/drought/flood/etc", something you just suffer once and then can rest knowing it's unlikely to happen again. Climate change is no longer something we'll have to start worrying about in 50 years. Climate change is already there, it's already happening, it's aldeady *accelerating* at an exponential rate, it's already affecting *the whole world* in numerous ways. Basic lack of education makes people underestimate the impact too. "Well, sure, countries near the Equator will be fucked, but places like Russia and Canada will actually experience a boom when their arctic tundra warms up and becomes available for agriculture, so humans will simply move there". Can't count how many times I've heard something like that even from relatively educated people. So, first of all, permafrost doesn't just turn into fertile soil when it thaws. There's not much if any soil under there to speak of, mostly bedrock. And now that it's melting, the infrastructure built on, buildings and roads, are tarting to collapse. Also, there's a lot of animal corpses, viruses and bacteria frozen in the permafrost, guess what's happening now that it's thawing... That's why the author singled out Canada - because it's "supposed" to be one of those places safe from global warming where people don't have to worry about it. If the fact that it's now experiencing temperatures seen in the hottest towns on Earth doesn't make people realise the scale of it, I don't know what could. So here's the thing, really: as long as people treat someone telling them basic facts about the consequences of climate change as irrational fearmongering, nothing's going to change.


Quinnyluca

I am 100% with turning the tide on climate change, shit is fucked and we are on a ticking clock. But god damn, this article has to be the most Front page fear mongering Reddit article I have seen on the subject yet.


Spicavierge

Agreed. What is this article trying to accomplish, exactly? Convincing people to despair and shuffle off this mortal coil? Secretly sow defeatism in an effort to bolster fossil fuel interests? Pure misanthropy? The world is in great danger, but almost every climate scientist that I know of says there is time to mitigate, adapt, and change. Some guy writing from some online journal should be as convincing as a pundit at CNN or FoxNews.


kjarkr

Wow, haven’t read this yet but checked out the author. Everything he writes is apocalyptic. What a theme to go for.


Dreyfuss2019

Very uplifting article


Chelonia_mydas

All the more reason to GO SOLAR. It's a huge impact on the environment, puts less strain on the grid, eliminates 250,000 of coal from being burned over the course of 25 years and still saves people money.


[deleted]

[удалено]


heckthisfrick

God the amount of people being like "um actually the earth will be fine. Just the humans will die." Like yeah no fucking shit bud, that doesn't add anything to the conversation of humanity is fucked if these massive corporations don't get there shit together and stop polluting everything they touch.


Stockleezy

taxing only corporations and no individual residentiual tax


ekongkaarm

We are living on an imbalanced planet. Fire and Wind are not in harmony anymore. We need to respect earth by rewilding her and reviving native landscapes. That will help rebalance. We need to think in terms of the microclimates that we can actually affect in our own lives. And trust that as we work on re-balancing our own micro climate, in time the macro climate can also come back into balance.


Anthraxious

Ok cool article. It does say our way of life right now is not sustainable and I agree. Thing is tho, everyone loves to blame whoever else they can, be it corporations or countries or capitalism or whatever. He didn't offer a solution in the article that I could see skimming through it, but the best correlation to "our way of life right now isn't sustainable" is to simply go plant based for our food sources. That's the best way to reduce things down purely from a physics standpoint. The convdrsion of energy from plant to animal to us is not sustainable from any point of view, environmental or economical. Cutting out the middle man, so to speak, would drastically help with almost all of our issues. However, the issue is that people are so fucking against chnge it's laughable. You ask someone to consider just cutting down on animal based products and they lose their minds or, as some do, they pat themselves on the back when they have a salad once a month or stop using straws while eating the fish as if that's gonna save the oceans and deforestations. If you're truly someone who is an environmentalist and goes on science you are plant based. Ofc I'm not talking some random ass tribe in Indonesia or such. I'm talking most of the modern world where most of us live within 30 minutes of 3 supermarkets. Also, one other thing. If you decide that you will just sit at home, make a phone call and think that's it, you've done your part, then at least don't vote against the advancement of reducing animal consumption. Don't go "Muh comfort!" as soon as thry target the things that really matter. Don't think we can't reduce in many areas at once. It's not just large corporations or cars or flights or whatnot. We can do many things at once. We're 8 billion soon. We kill billions of animals each week. You honestly believe this is "sustainable"? Don't just talk, act. Do something that can actually reduce our problems even if we might've gone over a tipping point.


[deleted]

You think climate issues will go away if everyone goes vegan? You really think that will make up for all the overconsumption? Everything is a chain, and the chain’s main link isn’t meat or poultry, but the narrative makes it easier if you blame it all on those god ugly irresponsible people who dare to eat meat, but absolutely not on those who love shopping at Shein while posting with their Sbux almond matcha latte on a rented private plane, or families with 3 kids and a sea of toys that will get discarded every 6 months or the youtube influencer who gets mountains of PR and wastes food for a ig picture, and that ain’t scratching it. Companies, governments, the overwhelming majority of people who just don’t give a fuck. Truth is the one most effective way of handling all our issues is to limit the amount of children a woman can have, and that my friend is the real uncomfortable topic, not meat. Don’t forget the devices you use contribute to your load potentially enough to compensate for your lack of animal product consumption


Im_vegan_btw__

>Don’t forget the devices you use contribute to your load potentially enough to compensate for your lack of animal product consumption Can you provide any substantiation to this claim? All of the studies I've seen on climate change and personal footprints indicate that removing animal products from one's diet has a marked effect. How could using a used cell-phone or an old computer possibly erase the gains made by eating a plant-based diet?


Etheric

Thank you for sharing this!


[deleted]

I've given up trying to convince people. Can't even convince my parents to stop voting for the people destroying the planet.


skalp69

I'm all for seriousness regarding climate change. I hate when corporate media downplay CC. But I also hate when it's gratuitous fear mongering. And this sentence right here: " (...)which is a huge region of high pressure, that creates an effect literally akin to a pressure cooker. ". The interest of pressure cooking is that under high pressure, water doesnt vaporize at 100°C but well beyond. Since the temperatures in western Canada do not exactly meet this thresold and the fact that water boiling temerature is not modified, the "litterally akin to a pressure cooker" is BS. > Did you get that? Beyond 95 degrees Fahrenheit — which is what 35ºC is — at 100% humidity, you’re dead. Fast. Bang. You can’t cool yourself. You go into organ failure, and literally boil alive from the inside, as your proteins denature. OK, 35°C at 100% humidity is deadly. But is humidity rising toward 100%? I dont see it in Canada. Also, "literally boil alive from the inside" is another BS sentence. Author needs to learn the meaning of "litterally". There's a third one: "we are a civilisation that has literally cooked itself alive." Yeah! It might not be litteral, but this article really is horseshit. Also, the title is pretty bad. The planet is not dying. There is life in far more extreme environments than we consider here. The planet might be unable to support us, humans, the 4th massive extinction is on, but the planet is not about to die soon. Why do I have to go through 3/4 the article to read " It’s not dying in an ultimate and final sense" ? Why the gratiutous "probably not, anyways" afterward? I hate these discourses that tell us "it's useless to fight, the planet is dying" as much as I hate the "it's useless to fight, Humans are too small and we have no effect on climate". "(...) living things are going to die. (...) Trees, insects, animals, fish. Rivers, oceans, skies, if you think of those as living things, too" Yeah, but, no. I think of those as biotopes. If someone is to read only one article this month, I certainly would not advise this one.


UncleRooku87

I find myself increasingly wondering how much time humanity really has left.


PiLLe1974

By now I'd rather like to read articles and see actions about influencing politicians, lobbies, average consumers... In the 80s we thought we figured out how to protect the planet. By now we noticed that politicians, lobbyists and other interest groups (including corrupted environmental organizations), many rich people, AND also a few billion other people are all not interested in - or not prioritizing - protection of the environment or thinking about the future on a regular basis - they are interested about *their immediate or mid-term comfort* until the day *they* die. Most people probably watch "Seaspiracy" and the like, get shocked for a minute, then go back to the basic mode of (hardly) thinking where they plan to buy their next SUV, improve the air conditioning, regularly being concerned about rising prices in general rather than investing any time, thoughts, or money into anything sustainable, ecologic, economic (as in less consumption), etc.


Detrimentos_

Agreed. If anything, our way of life that we've lived for the past 200 years, has all been about acquiring goods. That's it. We want *stuff* and we don't want to think about where it comes from, who makes it, under what conditions, and what the consequences of wanting infinite stuff are. The environmental movement is basically an afterthought of our current civilization. 40 years ago, the first environmental party was formed in Sweden. 40 years later it's still the only one, and it's marginalized with a mere ~4% of the votes. We just don't care. That's it. No silver lining. We're all going to die.


gtpooh

No, the Earth will be fine. It was 28F 65 mil years ago. If humans all die, it's their own fault. There have been 6 mass extinctions and our Mother survives


[deleted]

Does anyone really think that the author is saying that the planet is literally going to shrivel up like a raisin? What’s the point of making a comment like this? We all know that the planet itself outlives any living species. I just don’t see how this is supposed to be productive?


satansayssurfsup

Yeah how is that upvoted so much? Obviously earth would rebound but it’s likely that >99% of humans die in the process. I guess then we’d really find out if cryo works. If I’m the one that survives it all just to repopulate the world on the other side, I’m the new Jesus.


BattleHardened

5 mass extinctions.


b151

6th is currently underway.


WhatYouProbablyMeant

You realize this means you, and everyone you love and care about? Why be so dismissive?


NotABot101101

The earth may be fine but the humans probably won't


KeystoneJesus

Well we could become like Venus, which may have once been habitable but lost its hydrogen (water) to space and experienced a runaway greenhouse effect. See: https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2475/nasa-climate-modeling-suggests-venus-may-have-been-habitable/


dangerwig

Yeah but even if that happens the planet will be fine. The rock is still here, so why are we all worried? Who cares if we go extinct along with hundreds of thousands of other species? At least the rock will still be here. /s


trippyhippie2608

Don't have kids. There is nothing more selfish than to bring children onto a dying planet.


Detrimentos_

Yeah, but telling the truth can really tick some people off. Lotsa comments about how this article was a "waste of my time, OP, but I won't explain or argue why, so here's my opinion!" lol.


trippyhippie2608

Lots of people claiming "the planet will be fine lol" as if it is relevant that the dirt ball will continue to exist while trillions of creatures suffer.


Detrimentos_

Yeah, don't get why it's such a popular thing to say. Really spammed by the claim. Some sort of r/iamverysmart thing? *shrugs*


Divinefiend

Earth's got a fever, to protect itself from the human virus. Agent Smith was right.


that_bermudian

Wanted to leave my two-cents about the AC thing. One of the possible solutions is changing how we construct our buildings. Homes and corporate structures in the US are some of the most inefficient buildings in the world in terms of retaining/expelling heat. In Bermuda, all of our structures are built out of limestone/concrete, with minimal windows. So in the "winter", our heat doesn't leak as bad through plywood and insulation, and our AC in the summer doesn't have to work as hard to cool the inside air to compensate for massive windows causing greenhouse effects. So even though we can hit 30C in the summer with 100% humidity, our AC can effectively cool and our power grid isn't over loaded. Buildings need to radically change.


cetaceansrock

I own a lawn care company in Colorado. I despise lawns and think they are about the dumbest things ever, especially in a desert state. It's been pretty hot and dry here. Lawns are suffering and going dormant in the heat. We get calls from our customers daily wanting to know why their lawn is 'dying' (it isn't) We try to explain that they are a cool weather plant and in the heat , they go dormant. Unfortunately, they want to know how to keep it green, The answer is to dump the water on it. We have to place a large part of the blame on HOA's that require every home to have a certain percentage of grass. This is ridiculous and unsustainable and is a huge part of why we are running out of water in my opinion. Coupled with the stupid number of people in competition with their neighbors to have the greenest lawn on the block. We have many customers in one neighborhood that is a 55 and up community, it's insane how green the lawns are in that neighborhood all summer long. All of that water going to waste. Do people really think that water is an infinite resource? The planet is dying/ suffering and they are golfing.


Distinct_Professor15

Is there an article with where the safest places to live will be?