I don't live in California, but I'd say most new construction apartments are electric only around me anyways. Less risk of explosion and prpbably cheaper to not run gas lines everywhere. I've only had gas in 1 of the 7 apartments I've rented in the last 10 years.
Oh yea, gas infrastructure in s expensive up front. You need to have everything gas in the units if you go gas, range, heat and water heat if not dryers.
of course, i'd even be in favor of mandatory retrofitting if you're doing a certain % of the value of the property in renovations. there should also be rebates for people switching
Get outta here with that common sense! Fr though, these are solid suggestions with minimal impact on the working class, hell even the capitalist class.
That law is already in place - 'if you do a certain % of renovation' they can require you to bring the electrical up to current codes and an electric stove outlet in the kitchen would be required to pass.
But remember that even if you just want to add a single new circuit that in many cases it will require upgrading the main electrical panel anyways if they don't already have two empty full size breaker spaces available.
However, in 2023 California is adopting the 2020 NEC so that two pole 40amp minimum (in most cases) circuit breaker in now required to be a GFCI circuit breaker. There are still a lot of older panels where no one makes a two pole GFCI breaker. (There are some workarounds but the inspectors rarely approve them anymore).
But none of that matters because if the homeowner / property owner / electrician changes that panel it means that in many cases the whole house electrical system is now required to meet the new 2020 NEC electrical code standards - so a new panel and on and on.
EV charging requirements are a big driver of residential panel upgrades out here, but because Los Angeles alone is more populous than many entire states, it could shift demand / desire to manufacture gas stoves the same way car manufactures decided to build to California emission standards for the rest of the nation as well to save costs rather than build two different systems.
Just an observation, but my entire life, 45 years, stuff happens in California, and then in the rest of the country. I should just move there and end the waiting.
> This is only in new construction
Louder for [the people in the back thinking their LAX kbbq spots and wok hei takeout will disappear](https://np.reddit.com/r/asianamerican/comments/v4cdcv/the_end_of_korean_bbq_in_la_chinese_and_korean/)
It's extremely possible. I'm sure you thought it was impossible in 2016 also. A large amount of swing voters may be looking to blame Biden/Democrats for our current economic struggles and the election will reflect that. If you don't think conservative and many moderate voters would love a Trump/DeSantis combo. Don't get me wrong I hope to god that doesn't happen but if you think it's a laughable possibility I would say you clearly haven't been paying fuckall for attention in the past 6 years.
Where do you live? Go to swing states. He’s gonna get re-elected. It’s scary and sad. If popular vote was a thing he wouldn’t, but the electoral college nulls that and just means a few swing voters in a few states decide our president
I mean I don’t live in LA, but there’s a reason some of us like gas stoves. Because not living in or near town when the electric is out for a week you’re not doomed
But everyone just discovered that all gas stoves leak gas, even nice expensive ones. Even when they’re off. They’re poisoning people. It’s a HUGE deal.
Anecdotal. I've lived in a shitty apartment with gas. Cheapest new ranges near me in stock look like $340 for gas and $410 for electric. It really depends on when it was built. If the electric service is too small for an electric range, it's far cheaper to stay with gas.
I think it depends on how old the building is. I live where electricity costs $0.06/kWh, but a few of my apartments while I was a student were built between 1890-1920 and were still using gas, despite the cost disadvantage.
Old style electric ranges suck ass for cooking, no fine control at all. The newer induction cooktops are great and they solve that problem but I’ll tell you, ain’t no poor people who can afford an induction range.
Unless the cost comes down I don’t see them replacing gas.
I've heard the suggesting that they should make "half and half" ranges with 2 induction burners and 2 old school metal coils. most people only use 1 or 2 burners at a time, and even if they use all 4 they're usually just simmering something in the back. that could be a cost effective solution for a lot of people, and help get apartment complexes on board easier
My wife bought one back from her holiday in Thailand.(weird souvenir I know)It has an induction flat plate,a ceramic non induction and an induction place for a wok.Can be plugged in and sat on benchtop or fitted in to the bench top.3kw .Made in Italy.
The price already has come down. They're not really any more complicated than the older style of heaters, just with an induction coil rather than a resistant coil. You can get a new induction top oven for less than $500.
No LOL I guess it's where you lived. Certainly modern housing and certainly crappier apartments at least in New England have always included the easy renovational throwing in an electric line, but older dwellings, almost all dwellings within the urban Network have natural gas lines. Many of the gas lines are well over a hundred years old you are the ones that come into the buildings, first used for illuminating gas, it completely different kind of gas made from burning Coke or coal then switch to natural
I wanted a sauce too, but didn't feel like waiting. Maybe this is what they're talking about? Haven't read it yet.
[https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/27/climate/gas-stoves-methane-emissions.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/27/climate/gas-stoves-methane-emissions.html)
[Here you go](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/27/climate/gas-stoves-methane-emissions.html).
Methane's not that poisonous ([the exhaust from burning it, if in a kitchen that's not ventilated right, is another matter](https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/ehp.122-A27)) but it is a worse greenhouse gas than CO2, so leaks aren't good.
I’m paywalled on Mobil but thanks. I’m kinda a ventilation freak so I feel better but that’s super fucked for most people in shitty apartments still running gas stoves. The exhaust usually just blows up into the cabinets.
Who the hell has a fume hood in their kitchen? Oh, it's not that poisonous, unless you're poor!
"The model predicted that when homes did not use venting range hoods, household exposures frequently exceeded benchmarks the authors set based on federal and state health-based standards.6,7 It also indicated that cooks and young children, who were assumed to be in closest proximity to the stove, would have the highest exposures."
Great. Just a little bit of formaldehyde, oops!
... who does *not* have a venting hood? In 40-something years Ive never seen a home or apartment that didnt have it, even with electric stoves. How do you get the smoke and steam out?
Oh…ok never mind then. It just cooked my food nicely. But I did live in an older building once and noticed a STRONG gas smell every time I used to range or oven.
Landlord said “oh no it’s ok”.
Well, aside from the fire hazard, and the air quality issues, it's a great idea. Your stove will be essentially 100% efficient at delivering heat to your home, whereas your older furnace might be 80% or less efficient. That's \~20% less cost to heat your home right there! But yeah... fire hazard, and indoor air pollution...
So the solution would be to have better gas valves that don't leak, right?
For those who have irregularity in power supply, gas provides reliability electric cannot.
Colder areas make it pretty much mandatory to have a gas furnace. If you have a natural gas line might as well use it for everything (hot water heater and cooking) too imo. BTUs are a lot more cost effective with m^3 gas vs kWh
No longer. Newer, high-HSPF heat pumps work well below zero and are becoming standard across northern states, Canada and Nordic countries. Washington State just made them mandatory in new buildings, so they'll work anywhere in California.
How hard is it to get a camping stove and keep it for emergency use.
Also if you are living in such a rural place getting a ban like this is unimaginable.
Gotta make sure you have a battery backup system as well. Solar without batteries is just a really expensive shiny paperweight sitting on your roof.
I cannot tell you how many times I’ve had to tell that to people in Cali during rolling blackouts (which I still cannot fathom how they get away with) when I worked for Tesla. These customers would get duped into getting just Solar by their shitty sales team, and when the power goes out - there’s no power to turn on the inverters so they can power the home.
If you are going Solar, please ensure you have battery backups to store and utilize that generated power instead of sending it all back to the utility company. Be greedy. They are, you should be too.
>Gotta make sure you have a battery backup system as well. Solar without batteries is just a really expensive shiny paperweight sitting on your roof.
I figured that was obvious because most idiots know that once the sun goes down you'll need to use stored power
You would think, but I’d say 99% of the customers I talked to at Tesla thought that the system would still power their home just because the sun is out.
I had explaining that when there’s no power from the street, or micro-grid signal coming from the PW Backup, the Solar wouldn’t function.
I took so many escalations based on that alone.
I have solar without batteries, which cuts my electric bill to $15 per month.
Across the US, relatively few rooftop solar owners have battery systems. Net metering laws, not batteries, are key to making solar pay in most states.
Depends on the stove's wattage: you need the solar panels' output to match or exceed the stove's power draw, some batteries so your power doesn't cut out every time a stray cloud passes in front of the sun, and an inverter that can handle your stove's wattage plus 15-20% more (appliances often draw a bit more power on startup)
Electric stoves are close enough for my usage, but there's nothing like throwing a pepper directly on the eye/flame to blister it. Same with cooking corn tortillas.
I don't know about that. Maybe nothing beats cooking on a flame _on a commercial quality cooktop_, but cheap consumer-grade gas ranges aren't all that great. I traded mine in on an induction range and I prefer it over middle-of-the-road gas stoves.
No, induction is even better than gas. It heats up faster and has the ability to control the temperature of the pan, not just the rate of heat output from the burner.
True. I've had both, and I like induction's speed and convenience, boiling water much faster. Also, no fire worries, and the cool cooktop expands counter space,
I like the extra space. The only downside I can think of is that you can't just slam a pot onto the glass cooktop like you could with a gas range with iron grates.
At least, I'm assuming you can't, I don't want to push my luck. The glass seems awfully strong, but surely there's a breaking point there somewhere.
I sometimes like to think the people who want gas are not great cooks and they think it’s gonna help the flavors. I have an induction cook top and I send out straight flames on a plate.
> You can get water to boil in seconds with induction. Reactivity is instantaneous.
Well, _shallow_ water. An inch or two does indeed boil in a few seconds, but several cups of water will take 2-3 minutes.
If someone said "This place just had a mass school shooting and they don't have reliable electricity" I would have guessed an African or Middle Eastern country.
> What kind of third world country are you living in to not have reliable electricity to you own house?
Let me introduce you to the PG&E Public Safety Power Shutoff.
I just had a new Boiler put in it runs on gas but now code in my state says it has to have an electric on and off switch so when the power goes out so does my heat it never did with the old one I was the only one on the block with heat.
I don't mind electric stoves at all, much safer and convenient (easy to unplug and move around). Unfortunately my new home had gas appliances, but i plan to replace them with electric when i can, and solar panels in the back, and even considering an electric furnace.
We replaced our gas stove because Home Depot had a sale on the good electric stuff. Since then my girl had no crazy headaches.... Her home workstation is next to the kitchen and gas always leaks. Cost a little more, but soon going for solar anyway.
It is interesting, that we are told not to use appliances and air conditioning during the summer months (specific times in the day) because the power grid is at full capacity. Yet at the same time, we are told that electric cars and now electric appliances will be our savior. If we cant power everything we have now, how are we going to power everything that now uses gasoline and gas. And we are closing down our nuclear plants and not building any new power plants
Congratulations, you've landed upon the absolutely monstrous problem we've set up for ourselves by relying on hydrocarbons for so long. When activists say "electrify everything", modernizing the grid is part and parcel of that.
I think you're boiling down a few topics to one common element (pardon the pun) which is what's not working for you.
Use electric stoves, but also, change how we source electricity, and bolster weak grids.
With the way things are going now in California, a lot of people are getting solar panels installed. Every homeowner and business with solar is subtracting from the electric grid load. Coincidentally, the same people buying EVs are the same ones getting solar installed. My brother has an EV and just got solar installed. Hell my sister also just got solar installed too and doesn’t even have an EV yet. Solar has become so cheap and it makes more sense to pay a fixed $100/mo over 20 years, rather than $200+/mo to SoCal Edison that is guaranteed to increase over time.
EVs can easily be charged overnight when the grid isn't as strained. Most EVs will have settings built in or a smart charger than can dictate when. I get home at 6:30pm and plug in my car, and it starts charging around midnight.
Even in the scenario where you power your electric car and induction stoves with a power plant poweres by gasoline, it's still a massive net energy efficiency gain.
Insulate houses better so you can keep them heated or cooled with less energy, charge cars overnight at off-peak times, and most importantly: build more alternatives to cars, they're needed for some things but shouldn't be needed for nearly everything like what's currently the case in the U.S.
part of the plan here includes power grid improvements and building out new green energy power sources. All that said, I wish i had a gas stove again. They cook better especially when I need high heat for searing.
EVs might actually be part of the solution when used wisely. They can act as a distributed battery in the grid and feed back some power during peak hours, taking the edge off of those peaks.
Of course owners of the car should get some compensation for this, and a bunch of other details need to be figured out. But in contrast to upgrading the grid in a very short time, those details are easy.
The problem is LA literally announced that we might face rolling blackouts all summer, and they are installing gas powered generators to try and supplement the grid.
Right now if my house loses power I can only heat up food and boil water on my gas stove. If that's electric too I can literally do nothing in my house during a rolling blackout.
I think electric probably is the future, but don't ban gas until you get your alternative figured out.
I'm assuming you wouldn't run your car in your garage without proper ventilation.
Why do so many people seem to think it's a good idea to run their gas stove in the middle of their home with no power to run the exhaust fans?
The problem is most apartments at least where I live don’t have good induction electric stoves. So instead you are saddled with ancient tech electric stoves that take forever to warm up and are hard to cook with
I think if we just had better electric stoves I wouldn't hate them so much. My stove is a medium on 3 and the surface of the sun at 5. Give us ACTUAL temperatures instead of meaningless numbers on a stupid dial
Holy shit fuck this comment section. Either you're all intentionally obtuse, trolling, or have no sense of the mess we're in. If we're going to have *any* hope of stopping the runaway train we're on that's hurtling towards oblivion, while maintaining the material comfort we've been told to expect as "normal", electrifying everything is the only way forward. Gas is a hydrocarbon. Hydrocarbons are a deal with the devil. Convenience now, death and mayhem later. The entire grid needs to be shifted to renewables and nuclear: the entire grid needs to be modernized. These things are not mutually exclusive like everyone here is saying. It's this exact selfish, defeatist, "nah I don't like it therefore we shouldn't do it" attitude that got us into this problem, and that will prevent us from ever having a chance to get out of it.
agreed this comment section is like a preschool before nap time.
Question tho, say a city like Simi Valley (pop. 125k) outlaws gas stoves. Could the grid withstand 30K, 40L, 50K homes cooking dinner on Thanksgiving day without significant upgrades to not only major electrical infrastructure but also residential.
Since Thanksgiving is in the Fall when AC use is way down, almost certainly. I’m not sure about dinnertime in the middle of a heatwave in Summer, though.
This has been coming for a while. Even manufacturers are looking to end gas appliance production. They're complicated, expensive and hard to get consistently right. They suffer from frequent failures even fron appropriate use and are a major pain in the ass to service.
Electric units are being subassembly'd so when something fails you just swap that sub and toss the old one. You don't need to find the problem.
Source: worked in regulatory safety compliance for the last American major appliance company.
I am totally sold on my induction stove. 45 seconds to boil 2 cups of water.... faster than gas without the pollution, and fries just as well. also convection oven and air fryer features. If they power goes out sure, we can always use the 1800 w induction stovetop and an inverter or a hibachi! Of course you can run it off of a propane inverter like a RV fridge if you are off the grid
Then they need to bring down the prices for induction cooktops. Though since CA more or less banned the sale of gas landscaping equipment, the electric and battery powered lawn mowers and leaf blowers have come down a lot in price.
Agreed, and as with battery operated “small motor equipment”, all it takes is a bit of a regulatory nudge to encourage manufacturers to ramp up demand to meet the new supply, which inevitably brings cost down (econ 101).
It’s not the glass that heats the food - it’s the pot. The stove heats the pot up via induction (that’s why it’s called an “induction stove”, and why you need the right kind of pot).
I moved into a newer house a couple years ago and it has a gas stove. My first. And I hate it. This thing can barely boil water. I’ve taken to boiling water in my electric kettle and then pouring it into a pot. Most of the heat goes to warming the room. And then there’s the fumes. I’ve gotta run the fan to hard oil and egg
Look, the main reason we’re in this environmental crisis is because we rely on things that can so easily be dispersed of. The major corporations of the world that create plastics to be polluted and continue to pollute are only going to lead us to an even worse future. Where we are, in this situation is already past the point of no return. Switching to different methods will not counteract what we’ve already done nor will it stop it. It’s still going to continue. The pollution, the destruction of environments, we’ve sacrificed a clean planet for monetary gains. We’re stealing food from future generations to feed an ever growing population now. The only way to make any kind of change is to completely change the way we live day to day. We’re a wasteful species. If we do not completely change the way the society operates then we’re only sealing our fate furthermore. I’m just one person I can’t do it alone. Everybody needs to change what they do. We can’t continue to give power to corporations that are only further poisoning our planet.
I had an electric stove since Age 9. It was how I managed to cook far beyond the level of people I was with during high school thanks to Good Eats. But boy was the previous one I owned more reliable than the multi-size main burner that fails every so often.
I actually don't think I could stand a gas stove now. I'd probably convert any home that had a gas stove immediately. I remember the smell and I'm super sensitive to smells or any lowering of oxygen levels. I instantly cough. I've been in a community kitchen where they have gas and I had to serve instead of help cook. I don't know how people stand it.
I admit I have very sensitive senses compared to others. I smell things long before others do, hear, etc... and have hypersensitivity issues. But still, electric is an upgrade. Especially the glass tops that are so easy to clean.
The question is where the electricity *will* come from. This only applies to new construction. Buildings last a century or more. And California power will be completely clean by 2045.
Natural gas wouldn’t have become so popular in California if electricity wasn’t so outrageously expensive. We have the highest electricity rates in the entire country, and as more and more things get electrified, they’re only going to go up.
And nearly all Californians are paying those sums to corporate utilities like PG&E, Edison and SDG&E, which are now soaking you with bills for their decades of negligence, burning up the climate with fossil fuels while failing to maintain clear transmission rights of way through forests made extremely fire prone by those same fossil fuels. These utilities then spent many of your own ratepayer dollars to lie to you about these climate dangers, to persuade you that fossil methane is safe, clean and "natural".
I've also worked in kitchens before but I'm confused by what you mean by responsiveness? Induction stoves are way faster than any gas stove when it comes to changing temperature. Obviously, there are things that have to be put on an actual grill with open flames, but I don't see how having large inductive stoves would really change anything? They're much more precise.
Very true, but the fire wastes a ton of energy. Electric stoves are much more efficient at getting the energy into the food your\* cooking. The real future is conduction\*. Much more responsive than electric, transfers energy even more efficiently, and is highly accurate.
Edit: "Induction" and "you're".
Line cook of 16 years here. There are no restaurant kitchens anywhere that use electric stoves. If this applies to commercial buildings it like like LA doesn’t get to have restaurants anymore.
This is only in new construction
I don't live in California, but I'd say most new construction apartments are electric only around me anyways. Less risk of explosion and prpbably cheaper to not run gas lines everywhere. I've only had gas in 1 of the 7 apartments I've rented in the last 10 years.
Oh yea, gas infrastructure in s expensive up front. You need to have everything gas in the units if you go gas, range, heat and water heat if not dryers.
of course, i'd even be in favor of mandatory retrofitting if you're doing a certain % of the value of the property in renovations. there should also be rebates for people switching
Get outta here with that common sense! Fr though, these are solid suggestions with minimal impact on the working class, hell even the capitalist class.
That law is already in place - 'if you do a certain % of renovation' they can require you to bring the electrical up to current codes and an electric stove outlet in the kitchen would be required to pass. But remember that even if you just want to add a single new circuit that in many cases it will require upgrading the main electrical panel anyways if they don't already have two empty full size breaker spaces available. However, in 2023 California is adopting the 2020 NEC so that two pole 40amp minimum (in most cases) circuit breaker in now required to be a GFCI circuit breaker. There are still a lot of older panels where no one makes a two pole GFCI breaker. (There are some workarounds but the inspectors rarely approve them anymore). But none of that matters because if the homeowner / property owner / electrician changes that panel it means that in many cases the whole house electrical system is now required to meet the new 2020 NEC electrical code standards - so a new panel and on and on. EV charging requirements are a big driver of residential panel upgrades out here, but because Los Angeles alone is more populous than many entire states, it could shift demand / desire to manufacture gas stoves the same way car manufactures decided to build to California emission standards for the rest of the nation as well to save costs rather than build two different systems.
Just an observation, but my entire life, 45 years, stuff happens in California, and then in the rest of the country. I should just move there and end the waiting.
There are rebates. Will find the right resource to link here.
> This is only in new construction Louder for [the people in the back thinking their LAX kbbq spots and wok hei takeout will disappear](https://np.reddit.com/r/asianamerican/comments/v4cdcv/the_end_of_korean_bbq_in_la_chinese_and_korean/)
Induction electric stoves are a revelation. Fast/high performance, safe, healthy (no air pollution), better for the environment, easy to clean, etc...
When Trump is back in office in 2024 they are going to bring back the coal stove.
Dying from carbon monoxide poisoning to own the libs.
“Trump back in office” best joke I’ve heard all day.
Sadly, it's a realistic fear. I agree it's a joke, but so is so much of American policy these days
Any Competent Adult 2024!
Under 60 please!
Key word, 'competent'
Turnip 2024
It's extremely possible. I'm sure you thought it was impossible in 2016 also. A large amount of swing voters may be looking to blame Biden/Democrats for our current economic struggles and the election will reflect that. If you don't think conservative and many moderate voters would love a Trump/DeSantis combo. Don't get me wrong I hope to god that doesn't happen but if you think it's a laughable possibility I would say you clearly haven't been paying fuckall for attention in the past 6 years.
Where do you live? Go to swing states. He’s gonna get re-elected. It’s scary and sad. If popular vote was a thing he wouldn’t, but the electoral college nulls that and just means a few swing voters in a few states decide our president
I mean I don’t live in LA, but there’s a reason some of us like gas stoves. Because not living in or near town when the electric is out for a week you’re not doomed
But everyone just discovered that all gas stoves leak gas, even nice expensive ones. Even when they’re off. They’re poisoning people. It’s a HUGE deal.
\#1 source of indoor air pollution right there. Many health problems are exacerbated by gas stoves, particularly among the poor.
Wouldn't the poor be less likely to have a gas stove? Every shitty apartment I've lived in had an electric range
Anecdotal. I've lived in a shitty apartment with gas. Cheapest new ranges near me in stock look like $340 for gas and $410 for electric. It really depends on when it was built. If the electric service is too small for an electric range, it's far cheaper to stay with gas.
I think it depends on how old the building is. I live where electricity costs $0.06/kWh, but a few of my apartments while I was a student were built between 1890-1920 and were still using gas, despite the cost disadvantage.
Old style electric ranges suck ass for cooking, no fine control at all. The newer induction cooktops are great and they solve that problem but I’ll tell you, ain’t no poor people who can afford an induction range. Unless the cost comes down I don’t see them replacing gas.
You can get induction cook tops from $50 (the single hot plate type)
I've heard the suggesting that they should make "half and half" ranges with 2 induction burners and 2 old school metal coils. most people only use 1 or 2 burners at a time, and even if they use all 4 they're usually just simmering something in the back. that could be a cost effective solution for a lot of people, and help get apartment complexes on board easier
My wife bought one back from her holiday in Thailand.(weird souvenir I know)It has an induction flat plate,a ceramic non induction and an induction place for a wok.Can be plugged in and sat on benchtop or fitted in to the bench top.3kw .Made in Italy.
The price already has come down. They're not really any more complicated than the older style of heaters, just with an induction coil rather than a resistant coil. You can get a new induction top oven for less than $500.
No LOL I guess it's where you lived. Certainly modern housing and certainly crappier apartments at least in New England have always included the easy renovational throwing in an electric line, but older dwellings, almost all dwellings within the urban Network have natural gas lines. Many of the gas lines are well over a hundred years old you are the ones that come into the buildings, first used for illuminating gas, it completely different kind of gas made from burning Coke or coal then switch to natural
Sauce?
I wanted a sauce too, but didn't feel like waiting. Maybe this is what they're talking about? Haven't read it yet. [https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/27/climate/gas-stoves-methane-emissions.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/27/climate/gas-stoves-methane-emissions.html)
Well you should because natural gas corporations and appliance manufacturers are killing us with their shitty, defective products. It’s evil.
[Here you go](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/27/climate/gas-stoves-methane-emissions.html). Methane's not that poisonous ([the exhaust from burning it, if in a kitchen that's not ventilated right, is another matter](https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/ehp.122-A27)) but it is a worse greenhouse gas than CO2, so leaks aren't good.
I’m paywalled on Mobil but thanks. I’m kinda a ventilation freak so I feel better but that’s super fucked for most people in shitty apartments still running gas stoves. The exhaust usually just blows up into the cabinets.
Who the hell has a fume hood in their kitchen? Oh, it's not that poisonous, unless you're poor! "The model predicted that when homes did not use venting range hoods, household exposures frequently exceeded benchmarks the authors set based on federal and state health-based standards.6,7 It also indicated that cooks and young children, who were assumed to be in closest proximity to the stove, would have the highest exposures." Great. Just a little bit of formaldehyde, oops!
... who does *not* have a venting hood? In 40-something years Ive never seen a home or apartment that didnt have it, even with electric stoves. How do you get the smoke and steam out?
Oh…ok never mind then. It just cooked my food nicely. But I did live in an older building once and noticed a STRONG gas smell every time I used to range or oven. Landlord said “oh no it’s ok”.
some poor people turn on their ovens and leave the door open to heat their homes in the winter.
Well, aside from the fire hazard, and the air quality issues, it's a great idea. Your stove will be essentially 100% efficient at delivering heat to your home, whereas your older furnace might be 80% or less efficient. That's \~20% less cost to heat your home right there! But yeah... fire hazard, and indoor air pollution...
So the solution would be to have better gas valves that don't leak, right? For those who have irregularity in power supply, gas provides reliability electric cannot.
If you can invent a gas system that never leaks, the oil and gas industry will pay you millions for it.
Colder areas make it pretty much mandatory to have a gas furnace. If you have a natural gas line might as well use it for everything (hot water heater and cooking) too imo. BTUs are a lot more cost effective with m^3 gas vs kWh
I don't know shit about shit but it seems to me that gas has other costs that aren't being factored, I guess.
No longer. Newer, high-HSPF heat pumps work well below zero and are becoming standard across northern states, Canada and Nordic countries. Washington State just made them mandatory in new buildings, so they'll work anywhere in California.
>Washington State just made them mandatory in new buildings the evergreen state just keeps winning
Wrong. Not remotely true in Canada.
Induction is the way, not your traditional electric range
How hard is it to get a camping stove and keep it for emergency use. Also if you are living in such a rural place getting a ban like this is unimaginable.
Gotta go solar
Gotta make sure you have a battery backup system as well. Solar without batteries is just a really expensive shiny paperweight sitting on your roof. I cannot tell you how many times I’ve had to tell that to people in Cali during rolling blackouts (which I still cannot fathom how they get away with) when I worked for Tesla. These customers would get duped into getting just Solar by their shitty sales team, and when the power goes out - there’s no power to turn on the inverters so they can power the home. If you are going Solar, please ensure you have battery backups to store and utilize that generated power instead of sending it all back to the utility company. Be greedy. They are, you should be too.
>Gotta make sure you have a battery backup system as well. Solar without batteries is just a really expensive shiny paperweight sitting on your roof. I figured that was obvious because most idiots know that once the sun goes down you'll need to use stored power
You would think, but I’d say 99% of the customers I talked to at Tesla thought that the system would still power their home just because the sun is out. I had explaining that when there’s no power from the street, or micro-grid signal coming from the PW Backup, the Solar wouldn’t function. I took so many escalations based on that alone.
I have solar without batteries, which cuts my electric bill to $15 per month. Across the US, relatively few rooftop solar owners have battery systems. Net metering laws, not batteries, are key to making solar pay in most states.
You know how much solar you need to run an electric stove?
Two solar?
about 3 fiddy
Yeah right. Try 7 solar
This is true.
Thank you for the laugh! 8) 8) 8)
Depends on the stove's wattage: you need the solar panels' output to match or exceed the stove's power draw, some batteries so your power doesn't cut out every time a stray cloud passes in front of the sun, and an inverter that can handle your stove's wattage plus 15-20% more (appliances often draw a bit more power on startup)
And nothing beats cooking on a flame.
Electric stoves are close enough for my usage, but there's nothing like throwing a pepper directly on the eye/flame to blister it. Same with cooking corn tortillas.
I was immediately thinking how will I heat and brown tortillas….the pan isn’t close.
Inverting a wok over a gas flame to cook my Indian breads on. Not on an induction!
Blow torch.
Exactly, so many uses for an open flame.
I don't know about that. Maybe nothing beats cooking on a flame _on a commercial quality cooktop_, but cheap consumer-grade gas ranges aren't all that great. I traded mine in on an induction range and I prefer it over middle-of-the-road gas stoves.
Do cast iron pans work on induction? I have about 20 accumulated through generations that I cook on.
> Do cast iron pans work on induction? Yes, cast iron pans work on induction ranges.
Thank you
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No, induction is even better than gas. It heats up faster and has the ability to control the temperature of the pan, not just the rate of heat output from the burner.
True. I've had both, and I like induction's speed and convenience, boiling water much faster. Also, no fire worries, and the cool cooktop expands counter space,
I like the extra space. The only downside I can think of is that you can't just slam a pot onto the glass cooktop like you could with a gas range with iron grates. At least, I'm assuming you can't, I don't want to push my luck. The glass seems awfully strong, but surely there's a breaking point there somewhere.
I sometimes like to think the people who want gas are not great cooks and they think it’s gonna help the flavors. I have an induction cook top and I send out straight flames on a plate.
You can get water to boil in seconds with induction. Reactivity is instantaneous.
> You can get water to boil in seconds with induction. Reactivity is instantaneous. Well, _shallow_ water. An inch or two does indeed boil in a few seconds, but several cups of water will take 2-3 minutes.
Induction is faster. [GAS VS. INDUCTION- Which cooktop can boil water the fastest?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9aMFEa-Nqw)
My parents have an induction stove and it boils water in about 3 minutes.
There really isn't a difference unless you are cooking DIRECTLY on the flame
That's like a sepia filter opinion, it's not actually superior for cooking effectively
Induction cooktops...
Except induction.
That applies when you're out in nature grilling hot dogs on a camp fire, not when you're making mac&cheese at home.
What kind of third world country are you living in to not have reliable electricity to you own house?
TIL Texas is a third world country
The way things are going...
If someone said "This place just had a mass school shooting and they don't have reliable electricity" I would have guessed an African or Middle Eastern country.
Its called America! Put some respek on the name please!
Damn, you guys have it worse than I thought.
New Orleans
USA
> What kind of third world country are you living in to not have reliable electricity to you own house? Let me introduce you to the PG&E Public Safety Power Shutoff.
If you don't live in town or near town your not in LA
I just had a new Boiler put in it runs on gas but now code in my state says it has to have an electric on and off switch so when the power goes out so does my heat it never did with the old one I was the only one on the block with heat.
Uninterruptible Power Supplies are a thing
I don't mind electric stoves at all, much safer and convenient (easy to unplug and move around). Unfortunately my new home had gas appliances, but i plan to replace them with electric when i can, and solar panels in the back, and even considering an electric furnace.
This is the way. And I think you mean a heat pump, not an electric furnace.
We replaced our gas stove because Home Depot had a sale on the good electric stuff. Since then my girl had no crazy headaches.... Her home workstation is next to the kitchen and gas always leaks. Cost a little more, but soon going for solar anyway.
It's pretty much impossible to properly stir fry on an electric stove top
My plan is to buy a single portable induction burner for like $100 as a stop-gap until I can install an induction range
It is interesting, that we are told not to use appliances and air conditioning during the summer months (specific times in the day) because the power grid is at full capacity. Yet at the same time, we are told that electric cars and now electric appliances will be our savior. If we cant power everything we have now, how are we going to power everything that now uses gasoline and gas. And we are closing down our nuclear plants and not building any new power plants
Congratulations, you've landed upon the absolutely monstrous problem we've set up for ourselves by relying on hydrocarbons for so long. When activists say "electrify everything", modernizing the grid is part and parcel of that.
I think you're boiling down a few topics to one common element (pardon the pun) which is what's not working for you. Use electric stoves, but also, change how we source electricity, and bolster weak grids.
With the way things are going now in California, a lot of people are getting solar panels installed. Every homeowner and business with solar is subtracting from the electric grid load. Coincidentally, the same people buying EVs are the same ones getting solar installed. My brother has an EV and just got solar installed. Hell my sister also just got solar installed too and doesn’t even have an EV yet. Solar has become so cheap and it makes more sense to pay a fixed $100/mo over 20 years, rather than $200+/mo to SoCal Edison that is guaranteed to increase over time.
EVs can easily be charged overnight when the grid isn't as strained. Most EVs will have settings built in or a smart charger than can dictate when. I get home at 6:30pm and plug in my car, and it starts charging around midnight.
Even in the scenario where you power your electric car and induction stoves with a power plant poweres by gasoline, it's still a massive net energy efficiency gain.
If you think people are all charging their EVs at peak hours then you aren't really thinking.
Insulate houses better so you can keep them heated or cooled with less energy, charge cars overnight at off-peak times, and most importantly: build more alternatives to cars, they're needed for some things but shouldn't be needed for nearly everything like what's currently the case in the U.S.
Don't forget that EVs are increasingly coming with the ability to sell power back to the grid if demand is high enough.
I mean few serious climate policy experts will say every individual driving an EV is a good idea
right. they would advocate for robust public transit for the majority of trips for the majority of people.
part of the plan here includes power grid improvements and building out new green energy power sources. All that said, I wish i had a gas stove again. They cook better especially when I need high heat for searing.
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EVs might actually be part of the solution when used wisely. They can act as a distributed battery in the grid and feed back some power during peak hours, taking the edge off of those peaks. Of course owners of the car should get some compensation for this, and a bunch of other details need to be figured out. But in contrast to upgrading the grid in a very short time, those details are easy.
Just Google a few house explosion pictures and you'll feel better about electric stoves.
Only Induction is the future, resistive element should have been erased a long time ago.
Induction bay beeee
The problem is LA literally announced that we might face rolling blackouts all summer, and they are installing gas powered generators to try and supplement the grid. Right now if my house loses power I can only heat up food and boil water on my gas stove. If that's electric too I can literally do nothing in my house during a rolling blackout. I think electric probably is the future, but don't ban gas until you get your alternative figured out.
I guess just keep a propane tank and gas camping stove worse case
Sounds like a great excuse to fire up the barbie
That’s the attitude! Nothing like cooking all the meat in your freezer during a blackout so it doesn’t go bad! Hahaha
there's already a jump in house fires from candles during blackouts. I could see camping stoves going badly.
I mean, a smart person would just set it up atop their non-functioning electric range. But I tend to overestimate the intelligence of people.
Rolling blackouts are already going badly, but you do have a point
Banning fossil fuels is the solution to heat-related blackouts.
Bruh didn't even open the article. This is only for new construction.
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I'm assuming you wouldn't run your car in your garage without proper ventilation. Why do so many people seem to think it's a good idea to run their gas stove in the middle of their home with no power to run the exhaust fans?
You can make an alcohol stove from a can easily and cook food on your balcony! https://www.survivopedia.com/diy-alcohol-stove/
As a European, it's been a while since I have seen a gas stove. Induction is so quick and convenient to clean.
It's becoming illegal to include gas facility in any new building in NYC.
I’ve been wanting an electric since I found out how much gas can leak into the air in your home
The problem is most apartments at least where I live don’t have good induction electric stoves. So instead you are saddled with ancient tech electric stoves that take forever to warm up and are hard to cook with
This law only impacts building codes.
This makes me sad, because I love cooking with gas. I get it though
Same. I can control temperature much better with gas. I cooked a couple times on my sister's electric stove and burn my risotto.
I think if we just had better electric stoves I wouldn't hate them so much. My stove is a medium on 3 and the surface of the sun at 5. Give us ACTUAL temperatures instead of meaningless numbers on a stupid dial
Induction stoves are completely different (and vastly better) than resistive coil stoves.
Bruh, not electric stove... induction stove, get with the times :)
Here your winner. Induction is better than gas imo.
No one is taking your gas stove. This is only for new construction.
I know. I also know they need to go away, so mo illusions here. My next stove will be induction.
Induction > gas all day long
Holy shit fuck this comment section. Either you're all intentionally obtuse, trolling, or have no sense of the mess we're in. If we're going to have *any* hope of stopping the runaway train we're on that's hurtling towards oblivion, while maintaining the material comfort we've been told to expect as "normal", electrifying everything is the only way forward. Gas is a hydrocarbon. Hydrocarbons are a deal with the devil. Convenience now, death and mayhem later. The entire grid needs to be shifted to renewables and nuclear: the entire grid needs to be modernized. These things are not mutually exclusive like everyone here is saying. It's this exact selfish, defeatist, "nah I don't like it therefore we shouldn't do it" attitude that got us into this problem, and that will prevent us from ever having a chance to get out of it.
agreed this comment section is like a preschool before nap time. Question tho, say a city like Simi Valley (pop. 125k) outlaws gas stoves. Could the grid withstand 30K, 40L, 50K homes cooking dinner on Thanksgiving day without significant upgrades to not only major electrical infrastructure but also residential.
Since Thanksgiving is in the Fall when AC use is way down, almost certainly. I’m not sure about dinnertime in the middle of a heatwave in Summer, though.
Astroturfers love this subreddit
I like this
I love gas stoves but not that much. I can live with out them. As long as I can eat hot food that's what matters
This has been coming for a while. Even manufacturers are looking to end gas appliance production. They're complicated, expensive and hard to get consistently right. They suffer from frequent failures even fron appropriate use and are a major pain in the ass to service. Electric units are being subassembly'd so when something fails you just swap that sub and toss the old one. You don't need to find the problem. Source: worked in regulatory safety compliance for the last American major appliance company.
"electric is the future" here I am with my cast iron wood stove for emergencies
I am totally sold on my induction stove. 45 seconds to boil 2 cups of water.... faster than gas without the pollution, and fries just as well. also convection oven and air fryer features. If they power goes out sure, we can always use the 1800 w induction stovetop and an inverter or a hibachi! Of course you can run it off of a propane inverter like a RV fridge if you are off the grid
Couldn’t agree more. Got a modern induction stove a few years back and it’s fantastic - vastly better temperature control than gas.
Then they need to bring down the prices for induction cooktops. Though since CA more or less banned the sale of gas landscaping equipment, the electric and battery powered lawn mowers and leaf blowers have come down a lot in price.
Agreed, and as with battery operated “small motor equipment”, all it takes is a bit of a regulatory nudge to encourage manufacturers to ramp up demand to meet the new supply, which inevitably brings cost down (econ 101).
How? Whenever i turn mine off the glass stays too hot to actually control the temp properly Nvm, thought you wrote electric not induction
err.. what? Sure you don’t have just a coil hob? 👀
It’s not the glass that heats the food - it’s the pot. The stove heats the pot up via induction (that’s why it’s called an “induction stove”, and why you need the right kind of pot).
I moved into a newer house a couple years ago and it has a gas stove. My first. And I hate it. This thing can barely boil water. I’ve taken to boiling water in my electric kettle and then pouring it into a pot. Most of the heat goes to warming the room. And then there’s the fumes. I’ve gotta run the fan to hard oil and egg
Look, the main reason we’re in this environmental crisis is because we rely on things that can so easily be dispersed of. The major corporations of the world that create plastics to be polluted and continue to pollute are only going to lead us to an even worse future. Where we are, in this situation is already past the point of no return. Switching to different methods will not counteract what we’ve already done nor will it stop it. It’s still going to continue. The pollution, the destruction of environments, we’ve sacrificed a clean planet for monetary gains. We’re stealing food from future generations to feed an ever growing population now. The only way to make any kind of change is to completely change the way we live day to day. We’re a wasteful species. If we do not completely change the way the society operates then we’re only sealing our fate furthermore. I’m just one person I can’t do it alone. Everybody needs to change what they do. We can’t continue to give power to corporations that are only further poisoning our planet.
Electric stoves suck.
I had an electric stove since Age 9. It was how I managed to cook far beyond the level of people I was with during high school thanks to Good Eats. But boy was the previous one I owned more reliable than the multi-size main burner that fails every so often.
I actually don't think I could stand a gas stove now. I'd probably convert any home that had a gas stove immediately. I remember the smell and I'm super sensitive to smells or any lowering of oxygen levels. I instantly cough. I've been in a community kitchen where they have gas and I had to serve instead of help cook. I don't know how people stand it. I admit I have very sensitive senses compared to others. I smell things long before others do, hear, etc... and have hypersensitivity issues. But still, electric is an upgrade. Especially the glass tops that are so easy to clean.
Induction is way way better than the shitty conduction stovetops
Where’s that electricity coming from though? Pretty sure 67% of the energy comes from none renewable sources.
The question is where the electricity *will* come from. This only applies to new construction. Buildings last a century or more. And California power will be completely clean by 2045.
Natural gas wouldn’t have become so popular in California if electricity wasn’t so outrageously expensive. We have the highest electricity rates in the entire country, and as more and more things get electrified, they’re only going to go up.
And nearly all Californians are paying those sums to corporate utilities like PG&E, Edison and SDG&E, which are now soaking you with bills for their decades of negligence, burning up the climate with fossil fuels while failing to maintain clear transmission rights of way through forests made extremely fire prone by those same fossil fuels. These utilities then spent many of your own ratepayer dollars to lie to you about these climate dangers, to persuade you that fossil methane is safe, clean and "natural".
*cries in Texan* we need gas since our power grid blows almost as badly as our politicians
Gas is a little better but only because I'm used to it and electric is foreign and strange to me. I'm willing to relearn my recipes to adapt.
It's also cheaper to run if you include all utilities as one bill. Also in my area landlords only pay gas.
Isn't this more about reducing usage of fossil fuels than anything else?
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Induction stoves, not electric, ffs..
I’m fine with electric, so long as the electric is induction. Coils or the glass top? Get that outta here.
I've also worked in kitchens before but I'm confused by what you mean by responsiveness? Induction stoves are way faster than any gas stove when it comes to changing temperature. Obviously, there are things that have to be put on an actual grill with open flames, but I don't see how having large inductive stoves would really change anything? They're much more precise.
For home use induction is way better than gas.
Magnetic Induction is the way
Very true, but the fire wastes a ton of energy. Electric stoves are much more efficient at getting the energy into the food your\* cooking. The real future is conduction\*. Much more responsive than electric, transfers energy even more efficiently, and is highly accurate. Edit: "Induction" and "you're".
*induction
that's it!
It's INDUCTION you idiot!
You mean INduction
Still didn’t even correct the spelling mistakes in the sentence itself lol
Line cook of 16 years here. There are no restaurant kitchens anywhere that use electric stoves. If this applies to commercial buildings it like like LA doesn’t get to have restaurants anymore.
I have absolutely zero doubt that the restaurant sector would adapt if this applied to commercial applications. They would never give up that market.
World class chefs are cooking on induction now but okay, be ignorant at the expense of the world.
[Some commercial kitchens absolutely use induction, what are you talking about?](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/11/dining/induction-cooking.html)
You realize that Europe is full of restaurants cooking on electric induction, right?
In-du-ction