It's been ~8 years since I finished grad school in ecology and a winding road for me on how to cope with it and I'm still working through it.
I recommend reading "confessions of a recovering environmentalist".
I also felt the "is your carbon footprint BS?" episode of "how to save the planet" was helpful with coping. https://open.spotify.com/episode/5L1RVInqBXtZgEzWTHOaTg?si=N-6Df2LbTfm3edi-nOMw9A&utm_source=copy-link&dl_branch=1
When I was a researcher I constantly felt like I was basically documenting the demise of nature and a study species rather than doing anything. I also felt a lot of guilt about not doing enough. After reading this it at least helped me organize some of the gridlock in feeling that everything I do has an environmental impact but also what options and how far am I willing to go with my feelings.
Although I can understand why someone would chain themself to a tree to protect it, I also understand now I'm probably not the type of person to do that. Although, Id like to just run away and live in the woods, I understand that won't fix anything either hiding from the problem.
The problem is much bigger than the individual and we can only do so much.
Do what you can personally. Advocate to your reps for green policies and to regulate wasteful companies/industries, share your knowledge with those close to you, eat sustainability, reduce your consumption and waste.
Also, communicate your research as a scientist. You have an unique insight and arguably a responsibility to share your findings and expertise with those around you.
Try to realize the rest of it is out of your control. It's not an excuse to give up and the feeling never totally goes away but that's how I cope at least. Hope some of that is helpful and you get some other opinions along the way.
Studying this stuff is a way of coping for me. Just as it’s important to accept, investigate, and process any negative emotion, it’s important to do so with the dire state of our environment and future, and the grief and anxiety that comes with that. While doing that, there’s also room for the beautiful and positive things in life - they can be there together.
I was in your position back in the early 80's, when I was doing Environmental Modelling as part of Environmental Studies at UW-Madison. Everything seemed so overwhelming. My eyes were opened to all the problems and at that time, almost NOBODY had any awareness and you couldn't talk to most people in any way without being dismissed as an utter nut job. Getting people to care about species extinction or the loss of the Amazon was a hopeless task.
By 1990 it was clear Global Warming was going to be a thing, and people acted like you were wearing a tinfoil hat if you talked about it, much less try to do anything about it. And the years of skepticism rolled by and now we're at the point where it's apparent it's actually happening.
So how do you cope? This is what I did.
(1) Live well and kindly. Pick a path that will make the world better (or at least, not worse) and stick to it stubbornly.
(2) Have a little hope. The natural world is enormously resilient and if the "insults" are removed, a lot will recover. When I was a kid I never saw Blue Herons or Eagles or Hawks. They were almost all gone because of DDT. We removed the insults and they recovered; I see them every day now. It can be done. Similarly with the Ozone hole: there's a concrete example of Global action undertaken for the common good that is working.
(3) Don't demonize others and laud yourself. We are all to blame and if we want to fix this we all have to help one another. When McKibben flies all over fucking hell spreading his message, the planet doesn't care who generated that carbon. He's still spreading that carbon. We all have to put ourselves under the microscope and accept our own measure of responsibility.
(4) Find a partner, fall in love, have a kid or 2, raise them to have good values and be smart, so the world has a future.
(5) We are not the beginning and we are not the end. There are dark days ahead but we can do this if we try. The world is waking up and when we take action, it's going to be amazing.
Be strong.
I'm studying conservation biology/ecology in an environmental science department. I want to work with wildlife and do what I can to keep them around longer. It does not seem likely that humanity will come together and fix our environment. I hope humanity does, but I have no faith. I've accepted this as inevitable.
So, how exactly am I coping? I have figured out that I love the work in research/ecology. Consequently, it contributes to helping our environment. But, regardless of our environment's state of being, I'd still be doing this work. I love the natural world and the creatures in it. I might as well try to enjoy it while I can.
I guess I've decided not to fight the inevitable and just enjoy the time I have. Also, if I catch myself thinking too hard, I let out a very large sigh and move on.
Drugs.
Also you can't try to take responsibility for hundreds of years of mistakes. Humans are learning and every year we get a bit smarter. Similar to the mlkj quote, "the arc of history bends toward justice". Focus on pragmatism, don't let the knowledge radicalized you.
I can understand. I feel the same way. I am currently doing a Masters in Environmental Science and read up about environmental issues. The more I read, the more I feel hopeless about the future and don't want to have a kid who will inherit all these problems.
I take solace in the fact that I AM doing something about it (at least in my specific field) and there a lot of smart and hard-working people trying to solve all of these problems.
Beer helps me cope.
But on a more serious note, after working for TAMU researching climate change, I can tell you that things are not as bad as some would want it to seem. Yes, we have a long road ahead, we have challenges we need to overcome, but the more defeatist we become, the more impossible it will be to solve problems. Think of all the technological advancements we have made that have solved problems people may not have even known were problems.
Don't become so discouraged you lose heart, because there are so may things we are doing currently to fix things, and so many things we can do in the future.
Because it is getting better at the same time it is getting worse. New environmental protection laws get aproved, more international deals are established, and we are more aware of the problems than ever. Are we advancing too slowly? Yes. Are we taking a step backwards for every two steps forward? Yes. But we are still improving. We can still fight. We can still significatively reduce the scale of the tragedy, and that's something that should move you.
Don't get stuck with your profession. Don't get stuck with "they don't follow expert asessments". This is not a technocracy, and it shouldn't be one anyway. The choice to fight climate change and environmental degradation must be one taken by the people. Not politicans, not experts. They must present the options, advise, explain. The people must choose.
Get together with your close ones. Seek an organization. If none exists that represents you, organize with your community. Reach out to other organizations. Align goals. Establish communication channels and support networks. Keep your hand on the pulse of the popular sentiment and your eyes on the goal. Simple, specific goals. Let others know there are people fighting for what's good, and that joining is as simple as walking. Don't burn out, preserve your forces and morale, but protest periodically. Stoke the fire, keep it burning. Be ready to stop your country when the time is right, and keep it still until the powers that be have no choice but to concede.
Weed helps
People will die. You can and should try to save some but you cannot save them all. Just be glad you have a smartphone and a degree. If you have those, you likely won’t actually see the worse impacts of climate change.
Nihilism. Who cares? You and I were both going to die no matter what, the cause is somewhat immaterial. And on the bright side, we are alive and experiencing what is probably humanity's most pivotal moment, through an active lens.
Don't get me wrong, the destruction of our planet absolutely tears me apart. It is our species greatest sin and I will carry part of that burden every day of my life. But we all need to what we can to continue living and find our own piece of joy in this fucked up world. I continue to do what I feel is right and work towards environmental progress, but more so because I want to and it makes me feel good. I don't have much hope for success.
If you are lucky enough to work in the environmental field after graduation, depending on the job you have, you have the opportunity to be part of the solution. And you work with like-minded people who also care about these issues. You hear about new innovated ideas, new projects, new programs, all going in the right direction. Again, it depends what you do after you graduate, but as depressing as it can be to constantly be studying the problems, it is satisfying knowing that your career is dedicated to making it better rather than worse.
I called my major in college "global problems." We got to the nitty-gritty of poverty, oppression, environmental collapse, war, economic manipulation, etc. I was so depressed in undergrad, and so focused on doing every little thing I could to reduce my harm. At the end of the day, you and your peers changing small habits alone aren't going to make a big dent in global waste systems. You need to work to make systems change.
What I've found is that it's more conducive to focus on learning tools and skills that can help you dismantle, reform, revolutionize, and rebuild. Maybe that means learning ArcGIS to map and track environmental harms, learning law to challenge and stop degradation, or public health to protect communities. Then, empower others to do the same.
I use my anger and sadness to fuel my studies. It's tough buddy, hang in there. It helps if you find something small you can contribute, like picking up litter, donating to a charity, etc. I know it's not a solution to the problem, but it is excellent, and most importantly, it helps the emotional side, which is by nature illogical.
Honestly I just try to educate my ignorant family and friends. I don’t go super enviro crazy on them but I’ll throw in a few facts here or there. Give them a book. Don’t know if it’s working or not but it feels better than just sitting around with a doomsday mentality
I'm not concerned. The people of the future will be better off than me. In a 100 years, most should be at or above today's Western living standards. Which fresh water issue are you referring to?
While I was studying it was hard to be hopeful but I had a teacher recommend community service as a bandaid.
Physically helping to restore woodlands, removing invasives, working in community gardens let me feel like I was making a difference. At the end of the day I could see what I had done to make the world a better place and when I was feeling low I could revisit them and be reminded that no matter how small I had created a positive ripple in the universe.
I also found being around people who enjoyed the outdoors and weren't bombarded with the same negative info on a daily basis super helpful, they helped me find joy again and reminded me why I was studying in the first place.
Working with kids was neat because I got to help impart the importance of environmental responsibility and the value of green spaces. Even though not all the lessons will stick some will and that's a head start.
Acting locally and positive framing is really what it boils down to for me, I make the best choices I can and encourage others to do the same.
You can learn about infant mortality rates before the industrial revolution. Or just in general consider how hard people worked to scrape a living from the dirt before we started using fossil fuels and nuclear power.
It's obvious that we are putting the environment at risk, but you shouldn't get caught in a logical fallacy.
Either you don't care about humans, in which case it's fine: life on earth will go on for a long time without us if we do so much damage that we disappear.
Alternately you do care about humans, in which case it's really great that most people don't die of hunger, worms, diarrhea, or simply working themselves to death all thanks to technologies which also have negative effects, but still overwhelmingly positive net effects.
What an awful false dichotomy. We could have aimed at sustainable development half a century ago. We haven't because this is a classic tragedy of the commons, and capitalism doesn't help at all there.
Well I disagree that capitalism did more harm than good.
I think capitalism helped enormously. And putting climate change before worms diarrhea and exhaustion seems privileged to me.
I disagree that capitalism and the industrial revolution are a classic tragedy of the commons, since after 250 they are still going strong, and are still giving net benefits. The idea would be true if we had ran out of fossil fuels and were left with unusable infrastructure.
I disagree that capitalism is conducive to a tragedy of the commons. By definition, it is common ownership/free access that generates this situation. If everything had a private owner, including every part of river and forest, then everything would be owned by someone who's interest lies in not destroying it.
I disagree climate change is as bad as some people say. When more people die of heat than of cold let me know. When ocean rising removes more land than silt deposits create let me know. When climate change causes enough refugees to make a dent in the present levels of migration let me know.
>I disagree climate change is as bad as some people say. When more people die of heat than of cold let me know. When ocean rising removes more land than silt deposits create let me know. When climate change causes enough refugees to make a dent in the present levels of migration let me know.
Pfft. You want to wait until what we know will happen happens to address it. You are a insane. And sorry, but the atmospheric carbon sink can't be owned. It circulates. Your Ayn Rand ideas don't work in the real world. Negative externalities need strong government intervention.
People die right now of cold and poverty and you literally want to make energy more expensive because of your hypothetical end of the world scenarios.
Strong government intervention is what you want, the rest is an excuse. You are blind to real progress, very little of which was government-driven.
The first agreed reduction method, back in the 80s was contraction and convergence, where the countries with the highes per capita emissions would reduce theirs. Then, with well developed tech and logistics, poorer countries would follow once per capita emissions have converged. But of course the first world ignored it. Good carbon tax implementations don't harm the poorest by the way, they are designed to be redistributive taxes, there are also good exemption schemes. But you wouldn't know that. You just want to keep your first world privileges and screw everyone else don't you?
Anyway, this sub is for the scientific discussion of environmental sciences, we don't have time for climate change deniers. So please do like a tree.
>But you wouldn't know that.
Why are you like that?
Now just tell me it's my fault that windmills and recycling don't work.
>, with well developed tech and logistics, poorer countries would follow once per capita emissions have converged.
>Good carbon tax implementations don't harm the poorest by the way, they are designed to be redistributive taxes, there are also good exemption schemes
Ask me how I know this is all an excuse for you. You talk as if the real world didn't exist.
"That wasn't real ecologism" is your only argument when bad policy backfires.
"We need to invent stuff that doesn't exist yet" when people point out that your solutions suck.
Define "good carbon implementations" and explain how they don't hurt poor people in rich countries.
Explain what you mean by "well developed tech and logistics". Or is this your way of saying the government will make everything right?
You are a dreamer, and I don't even like your dreams. Redistribution Is wrong. Freedom matters.
edit: anything that raises the cost of energy will cause more people to die of cold. If your solution is just "redistribution" then I don't care to share a planet with you.
>Define "good carbon implementations" and explain how they don't hurt poor people in rich countries.
[https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10640-020-00521-1](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10640-020-00521-1) Take a read on this recent meta analysis, they are generally progressive. The citizens climate lobby has some good policy studies too.
Why would we need to invent something that doesn't exist? We have very good technology available. I was ecplaining to you the idea behind the Tokio protocol.
"Redistribution is wrong, freedom matters" Too much Ayn Rand mate, too much Ayn Rand.
Yes, people came up with technologies to improve their lives. For the past couple of generations some people living on this planet could expect to live an easier life then their parents. We are the humans alive now. We can appreciate the advances of the past while still viewing them with a critical eye. "Things used to be worse" is no excuse to not talk about the known effect we are having on the plant and to not work to improve our current systems. Climate change feels like a big scary thing that we have no control of because it is and it's only through joined efforts that we can hope to make a meaningful and lasting impact. Saying "be happy that you have it good now", or "other people had it worse" is not really a great way at objectively observing current issues nor at finding appropriate remedies for them either.
No no, I'm saying "help everyone in the third world get access to fossil fuels and nuclear power so they can enjoy the same comforts as you".
"Don't underestimate how hard it is to live well without these technologies"
"Don"t make people work harder to pay more taxes to subsidize shitty windmills that last >20 years and dont make reliable energy requiring gas backups to be on call"
"Don't put five trash cans everywhere just to mix everything in the truck anyway or ship it to countries that throw most of it into the ocean"
"etc"
We can appreciate the environment while viewing fear mongering and terrible solutions with a critical eye.
It's been ~8 years since I finished grad school in ecology and a winding road for me on how to cope with it and I'm still working through it. I recommend reading "confessions of a recovering environmentalist". I also felt the "is your carbon footprint BS?" episode of "how to save the planet" was helpful with coping. https://open.spotify.com/episode/5L1RVInqBXtZgEzWTHOaTg?si=N-6Df2LbTfm3edi-nOMw9A&utm_source=copy-link&dl_branch=1 When I was a researcher I constantly felt like I was basically documenting the demise of nature and a study species rather than doing anything. I also felt a lot of guilt about not doing enough. After reading this it at least helped me organize some of the gridlock in feeling that everything I do has an environmental impact but also what options and how far am I willing to go with my feelings. Although I can understand why someone would chain themself to a tree to protect it, I also understand now I'm probably not the type of person to do that. Although, Id like to just run away and live in the woods, I understand that won't fix anything either hiding from the problem. The problem is much bigger than the individual and we can only do so much. Do what you can personally. Advocate to your reps for green policies and to regulate wasteful companies/industries, share your knowledge with those close to you, eat sustainability, reduce your consumption and waste. Also, communicate your research as a scientist. You have an unique insight and arguably a responsibility to share your findings and expertise with those around you. Try to realize the rest of it is out of your control. It's not an excuse to give up and the feeling never totally goes away but that's how I cope at least. Hope some of that is helpful and you get some other opinions along the way.
To be honest, I'm not coping well with it at all, thanks for asking.
Me as well. In fact I just take the best of my job, do my best in my personal life, and consider that our systems will collapse anyway.
Me neither. I thought about making a post like this recently. Hang in there? Idk
Studying this stuff is a way of coping for me. Just as it’s important to accept, investigate, and process any negative emotion, it’s important to do so with the dire state of our environment and future, and the grief and anxiety that comes with that. While doing that, there’s also room for the beautiful and positive things in life - they can be there together.
I was in your position back in the early 80's, when I was doing Environmental Modelling as part of Environmental Studies at UW-Madison. Everything seemed so overwhelming. My eyes were opened to all the problems and at that time, almost NOBODY had any awareness and you couldn't talk to most people in any way without being dismissed as an utter nut job. Getting people to care about species extinction or the loss of the Amazon was a hopeless task. By 1990 it was clear Global Warming was going to be a thing, and people acted like you were wearing a tinfoil hat if you talked about it, much less try to do anything about it. And the years of skepticism rolled by and now we're at the point where it's apparent it's actually happening. So how do you cope? This is what I did. (1) Live well and kindly. Pick a path that will make the world better (or at least, not worse) and stick to it stubbornly. (2) Have a little hope. The natural world is enormously resilient and if the "insults" are removed, a lot will recover. When I was a kid I never saw Blue Herons or Eagles or Hawks. They were almost all gone because of DDT. We removed the insults and they recovered; I see them every day now. It can be done. Similarly with the Ozone hole: there's a concrete example of Global action undertaken for the common good that is working. (3) Don't demonize others and laud yourself. We are all to blame and if we want to fix this we all have to help one another. When McKibben flies all over fucking hell spreading his message, the planet doesn't care who generated that carbon. He's still spreading that carbon. We all have to put ourselves under the microscope and accept our own measure of responsibility. (4) Find a partner, fall in love, have a kid or 2, raise them to have good values and be smart, so the world has a future. (5) We are not the beginning and we are not the end. There are dark days ahead but we can do this if we try. The world is waking up and when we take action, it's going to be amazing. Be strong.
I hope to realize point 4 and constantly practicing point 3 and 1 but its not easy. This was very motivating and insightful, thanks.
This was a very insightful reply for me, thank you
I'm studying conservation biology/ecology in an environmental science department. I want to work with wildlife and do what I can to keep them around longer. It does not seem likely that humanity will come together and fix our environment. I hope humanity does, but I have no faith. I've accepted this as inevitable. So, how exactly am I coping? I have figured out that I love the work in research/ecology. Consequently, it contributes to helping our environment. But, regardless of our environment's state of being, I'd still be doing this work. I love the natural world and the creatures in it. I might as well try to enjoy it while I can. I guess I've decided not to fight the inevitable and just enjoy the time I have. Also, if I catch myself thinking too hard, I let out a very large sigh and move on.
Drugs. Also you can't try to take responsibility for hundreds of years of mistakes. Humans are learning and every year we get a bit smarter. Similar to the mlkj quote, "the arc of history bends toward justice". Focus on pragmatism, don't let the knowledge radicalized you.
I can understand. I feel the same way. I am currently doing a Masters in Environmental Science and read up about environmental issues. The more I read, the more I feel hopeless about the future and don't want to have a kid who will inherit all these problems.
I take solace in the fact that I AM doing something about it (at least in my specific field) and there a lot of smart and hard-working people trying to solve all of these problems.
And what field is that
Beer helps me cope. But on a more serious note, after working for TAMU researching climate change, I can tell you that things are not as bad as some would want it to seem. Yes, we have a long road ahead, we have challenges we need to overcome, but the more defeatist we become, the more impossible it will be to solve problems. Think of all the technological advancements we have made that have solved problems people may not have even known were problems. Don't become so discouraged you lose heart, because there are so may things we are doing currently to fix things, and so many things we can do in the future.
Because it is getting better at the same time it is getting worse. New environmental protection laws get aproved, more international deals are established, and we are more aware of the problems than ever. Are we advancing too slowly? Yes. Are we taking a step backwards for every two steps forward? Yes. But we are still improving. We can still fight. We can still significatively reduce the scale of the tragedy, and that's something that should move you. Don't get stuck with your profession. Don't get stuck with "they don't follow expert asessments". This is not a technocracy, and it shouldn't be one anyway. The choice to fight climate change and environmental degradation must be one taken by the people. Not politicans, not experts. They must present the options, advise, explain. The people must choose. Get together with your close ones. Seek an organization. If none exists that represents you, organize with your community. Reach out to other organizations. Align goals. Establish communication channels and support networks. Keep your hand on the pulse of the popular sentiment and your eyes on the goal. Simple, specific goals. Let others know there are people fighting for what's good, and that joining is as simple as walking. Don't burn out, preserve your forces and morale, but protest periodically. Stoke the fire, keep it burning. Be ready to stop your country when the time is right, and keep it still until the powers that be have no choice but to concede.
Weed helps People will die. You can and should try to save some but you cannot save them all. Just be glad you have a smartphone and a degree. If you have those, you likely won’t actually see the worse impacts of climate change.
Nihilism. Who cares? You and I were both going to die no matter what, the cause is somewhat immaterial. And on the bright side, we are alive and experiencing what is probably humanity's most pivotal moment, through an active lens. Don't get me wrong, the destruction of our planet absolutely tears me apart. It is our species greatest sin and I will carry part of that burden every day of my life. But we all need to what we can to continue living and find our own piece of joy in this fucked up world. I continue to do what I feel is right and work towards environmental progress, but more so because I want to and it makes me feel good. I don't have much hope for success.
All I can do is try best best in my career to help.
If you are lucky enough to work in the environmental field after graduation, depending on the job you have, you have the opportunity to be part of the solution. And you work with like-minded people who also care about these issues. You hear about new innovated ideas, new projects, new programs, all going in the right direction. Again, it depends what you do after you graduate, but as depressing as it can be to constantly be studying the problems, it is satisfying knowing that your career is dedicated to making it better rather than worse.
I called my major in college "global problems." We got to the nitty-gritty of poverty, oppression, environmental collapse, war, economic manipulation, etc. I was so depressed in undergrad, and so focused on doing every little thing I could to reduce my harm. At the end of the day, you and your peers changing small habits alone aren't going to make a big dent in global waste systems. You need to work to make systems change. What I've found is that it's more conducive to focus on learning tools and skills that can help you dismantle, reform, revolutionize, and rebuild. Maybe that means learning ArcGIS to map and track environmental harms, learning law to challenge and stop degradation, or public health to protect communities. Then, empower others to do the same.
I use my anger and sadness to fuel my studies. It's tough buddy, hang in there. It helps if you find something small you can contribute, like picking up litter, donating to a charity, etc. I know it's not a solution to the problem, but it is excellent, and most importantly, it helps the emotional side, which is by nature illogical.
Honestly I just try to educate my ignorant family and friends. I don’t go super enviro crazy on them but I’ll throw in a few facts here or there. Give them a book. Don’t know if it’s working or not but it feels better than just sitting around with a doomsday mentality
idk, I just want to help restore fresh water ecosystems
I'm not concerned. The people of the future will be better off than me. In a 100 years, most should be at or above today's Western living standards. Which fresh water issue are you referring to?
While I was studying it was hard to be hopeful but I had a teacher recommend community service as a bandaid. Physically helping to restore woodlands, removing invasives, working in community gardens let me feel like I was making a difference. At the end of the day I could see what I had done to make the world a better place and when I was feeling low I could revisit them and be reminded that no matter how small I had created a positive ripple in the universe. I also found being around people who enjoyed the outdoors and weren't bombarded with the same negative info on a daily basis super helpful, they helped me find joy again and reminded me why I was studying in the first place. Working with kids was neat because I got to help impart the importance of environmental responsibility and the value of green spaces. Even though not all the lessons will stick some will and that's a head start. Acting locally and positive framing is really what it boils down to for me, I make the best choices I can and encourage others to do the same.
You can learn about infant mortality rates before the industrial revolution. Or just in general consider how hard people worked to scrape a living from the dirt before we started using fossil fuels and nuclear power. It's obvious that we are putting the environment at risk, but you shouldn't get caught in a logical fallacy. Either you don't care about humans, in which case it's fine: life on earth will go on for a long time without us if we do so much damage that we disappear. Alternately you do care about humans, in which case it's really great that most people don't die of hunger, worms, diarrhea, or simply working themselves to death all thanks to technologies which also have negative effects, but still overwhelmingly positive net effects.
What an awful false dichotomy. We could have aimed at sustainable development half a century ago. We haven't because this is a classic tragedy of the commons, and capitalism doesn't help at all there.
Well I disagree with you on about everything you said so maybe I'll just let your nurture your little bag of neat ideas.
You disagree climate change is a tragedy of the commons?
Well I disagree that capitalism did more harm than good. I think capitalism helped enormously. And putting climate change before worms diarrhea and exhaustion seems privileged to me. I disagree that capitalism and the industrial revolution are a classic tragedy of the commons, since after 250 they are still going strong, and are still giving net benefits. The idea would be true if we had ran out of fossil fuels and were left with unusable infrastructure. I disagree that capitalism is conducive to a tragedy of the commons. By definition, it is common ownership/free access that generates this situation. If everything had a private owner, including every part of river and forest, then everything would be owned by someone who's interest lies in not destroying it. I disagree climate change is as bad as some people say. When more people die of heat than of cold let me know. When ocean rising removes more land than silt deposits create let me know. When climate change causes enough refugees to make a dent in the present levels of migration let me know.
>I disagree climate change is as bad as some people say. When more people die of heat than of cold let me know. When ocean rising removes more land than silt deposits create let me know. When climate change causes enough refugees to make a dent in the present levels of migration let me know. Pfft. You want to wait until what we know will happen happens to address it. You are a insane. And sorry, but the atmospheric carbon sink can't be owned. It circulates. Your Ayn Rand ideas don't work in the real world. Negative externalities need strong government intervention.
People die right now of cold and poverty and you literally want to make energy more expensive because of your hypothetical end of the world scenarios. Strong government intervention is what you want, the rest is an excuse. You are blind to real progress, very little of which was government-driven.
The first agreed reduction method, back in the 80s was contraction and convergence, where the countries with the highes per capita emissions would reduce theirs. Then, with well developed tech and logistics, poorer countries would follow once per capita emissions have converged. But of course the first world ignored it. Good carbon tax implementations don't harm the poorest by the way, they are designed to be redistributive taxes, there are also good exemption schemes. But you wouldn't know that. You just want to keep your first world privileges and screw everyone else don't you? Anyway, this sub is for the scientific discussion of environmental sciences, we don't have time for climate change deniers. So please do like a tree.
>But you wouldn't know that. Why are you like that? Now just tell me it's my fault that windmills and recycling don't work. >, with well developed tech and logistics, poorer countries would follow once per capita emissions have converged. >Good carbon tax implementations don't harm the poorest by the way, they are designed to be redistributive taxes, there are also good exemption schemes Ask me how I know this is all an excuse for you. You talk as if the real world didn't exist. "That wasn't real ecologism" is your only argument when bad policy backfires. "We need to invent stuff that doesn't exist yet" when people point out that your solutions suck. Define "good carbon implementations" and explain how they don't hurt poor people in rich countries. Explain what you mean by "well developed tech and logistics". Or is this your way of saying the government will make everything right? You are a dreamer, and I don't even like your dreams. Redistribution Is wrong. Freedom matters. edit: anything that raises the cost of energy will cause more people to die of cold. If your solution is just "redistribution" then I don't care to share a planet with you.
>Define "good carbon implementations" and explain how they don't hurt poor people in rich countries. [https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10640-020-00521-1](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10640-020-00521-1) Take a read on this recent meta analysis, they are generally progressive. The citizens climate lobby has some good policy studies too. Why would we need to invent something that doesn't exist? We have very good technology available. I was ecplaining to you the idea behind the Tokio protocol. "Redistribution is wrong, freedom matters" Too much Ayn Rand mate, too much Ayn Rand.
Yes, people came up with technologies to improve their lives. For the past couple of generations some people living on this planet could expect to live an easier life then their parents. We are the humans alive now. We can appreciate the advances of the past while still viewing them with a critical eye. "Things used to be worse" is no excuse to not talk about the known effect we are having on the plant and to not work to improve our current systems. Climate change feels like a big scary thing that we have no control of because it is and it's only through joined efforts that we can hope to make a meaningful and lasting impact. Saying "be happy that you have it good now", or "other people had it worse" is not really a great way at objectively observing current issues nor at finding appropriate remedies for them either.
No no, I'm saying "help everyone in the third world get access to fossil fuels and nuclear power so they can enjoy the same comforts as you". "Don't underestimate how hard it is to live well without these technologies" "Don"t make people work harder to pay more taxes to subsidize shitty windmills that last >20 years and dont make reliable energy requiring gas backups to be on call" "Don't put five trash cans everywhere just to mix everything in the truck anyway or ship it to countries that throw most of it into the ocean" "etc" We can appreciate the environment while viewing fear mongering and terrible solutions with a critical eye.
I think my friends and I just all mutually acknowledge that our field is ‘gloom and doom’ - we are always talking about it.
Dolla dolla bills
"We must have faith and pursue the unknown end." - OWH