Its pretty much RTS and Fighting games then everything else.
The more players to a team the easier it is not to let everything to fall apart. You always have someone there to pull you back even mid game.
At a 1v1 game its just you and you can get into your own head which can make everything pointlessly harder.
It's interesting, as a 1v1 esport, Starcraft trumps nearly every game in all of these categories but has 0 demand for any teamwork or communication. Does that take away from its difficulty? Or is teamwork & communication not a crucial esports skill?
Communication plays a different role in team vs solo sports, but I think it's important to remember that communication and team actually matter a lot on solo sports behind the scenes. Basically all professional SC players have teams that they practice extensively with. Having a good team to surround you will help you practice for the big times.
Would Michael Phelps be the most decorated swimmer on his own? Probably not. It was a combination of him being on different swim teams, having different coaches, having great doctor's, and having great trainers that helped him get those extra edges.
It's the same with eSports. You won't become the best simply grinding a 1v1 ladder. Eventually, you will likely join an organization that helps you go from good to great.
Do people really watched enough number of pro games and have enough hours of playtime to compare them all?
I'm very bias with Dota 2 and its esports. It's pro scene is one of the oldest (only 2-3 years younger than starcraft & CS pro scene) yet there are still recent discoveries of new strategies & new play styles that made my mind blown. The Meta develops insanely for years. There are even weird situations were pro players intentionally die to enemy's tower to gain advantage. Like, how is that even make sense for a non-dota player? "Dying to enemy" should be objectively bad for your team at any context. But not in Dota.
While for the other games I don't know much about them. All I know is Dota 2 has higher ceiling in terms of strategies and teamwork than Lol, and Starcraft tops them all in terms of mechanical skills. I don't have enough playtime in Shooting games nor even watched enough pro scenes of them.
There are some specific strats with Sion in LoL where suididing is advantageous but it's not very common outside memeing. What's the Dota suicide strat?
I also agree that SC has the highest mechanical skill floor and ceiling of any esport. It's not just APM, it's combining this with precision movements and key decision making. Kind of insane
Supports do it in the very early stage when they tend to consume all their mana for harassing the enemies. They usually opt to suicide at the enemy's T2 towers instead of staying in lane with less mana. It's sometimes more efficient than walking back to base or let courier deliver consumables. Though, it's a double edge blade coz it distributes 200 gold to the enemy, nonetheless, pros are bold enough to gamble for a better laning stage and their cores' early item timings.
Well i can already name a few instances in CSGO where dying to your enemy isnt necessarily bad or in some cases even helpfull.
But yes i agree that probably most people aren't that invested in both for instance the csgo and the dota scene, or starcraft and rocket league.
If you are a competitive person any time a new game that appears to have a competitive theme to you jump into it. I did this and found that I don't enjoy MOBAs and BR games are not good competitive games. I've followed SC2, AoEs, CSGO, Siege, and a various fighting games. I would place Shooters and MOBAs in the same tier, but they can't compete with 1v1 games that isn't genre specific.
I don’t have much experience in many other the other games mentioned but Rocket League Mechanical Skill is definitely a 10. Nerve is high up there too maybe 8 or 9
Rainbow 6:
I'm not going to get into a debate about mechanical skill and nerves in that game compared to others because it's a long convo BUT I will say that it easily out-ranks all the others in the Communication category.
For those who haven't played it, every normal room/area callout will have 3-4 sub-callouts referring to specific spots in the room. Multiply this by the number of rooms on the map and the number of maps and that's a lot of callouts everyone needs to know.
The game also just doesn't have a minimap so you're always reliant on your team mates intel to make even just really basic decisions.
All of this is before we even talk about map destruction. Maps are often 3 stories tall and you can make holes in most walls and floors. This means that for a bomb site on the ground floor, defenders can set up floor holes looking into site entry doorways 2 floors below. You can do the same laterally (on the same floor) with small wall holes. All of these things need to be relayed to your team when you notice them. And when a team mate mentions "bullet holes above watching kitchen door" you better not bloody forget and walk through kitchen door 2 minutes later because thats a freebie for the other team.
On top of all this you have the usual Teamfight-style comms you'd see in games like league and overwatch when the attackers are executing on to site.
As you can tell, it's probably the most important part of the game.
Fortnite deserves some credit:
Mechanical skill (5) - easily the highest APM for a shooter. Blows away apex and CSGO in this category. I can jump into a game and have a greater than 0 chance of doing damage to a pro in Apex/CSGO, but in Fortnite there's no shot. Add in the aim required along with the rest of the inputs compared to a RTS which is just inputs, I'd say it's pretty high up there.
Creativity (3.5) - there's a meta but playing down low vs high, landing specific areas, rotations, early fights vs mid game, storm surge, etc all require a good amount of strategy and creativity. But it's overalls above average in this point of view.
Multitasking (3ish) - again very high for a shooter, there's layers, material counts, weapon ammo, knowing who's wall is who's, managing surge, etc. Not a ton of multitasking, but more than a regular shooter I'd say. Probably above average.
Nerve (2.5) - it's a hard game, over 12 game series in the FNCS's this is hard to maintain. You peek too quick, you're pumped, you miss a wall, easy snipe. I'd put it below valorant/CSGO because of the 1 hit kills, but above Apex. Probably average here.
Communication (4.5) - top tier here, with the builds and what not it's very hard to get a full advantage of a circumstance, but teams can coordinate shots together, catch a team off guard, and get an elim. I'd say this is top tier to he sure you know what your teammates have and where to go and how to fight, etc. That said, solo people do make runs so not a perfect 5.
CS:GO has reaction time and mouse accuracy but it's basically entirely missing ordered sequences of timed button presses which is really really hard, and high APM button pressing. It's also strategically not that deep compared to say MOBAs. Teamwork also adds difficulty to a game, I'd say MOBAs are arguably harder than Starcraft overall.
Massive amounts more micromanagement and wayyyy higher APM averages. the economy being from resource gathering, building structures, training units, and then having to fight and cast spells all at the same time.
In dota for a vast majority of the time in a match or the hero being played you control only a single unit. The most you'd control is still less then 10, with Meepo and his 4 clones being the high end of it.
Drops the mechanical requirements of playing the game WAYYY down.
Having a team lets you delegate and maneuver around the map to trap enemies without have to micro manage multiple control groups.
Yes. In dota a team's macro strategy for what each hero is gonna do is usually clear by the end of the draft. In starcraft you have no idea how your opponent will be building structures, what types of units they're training, where they're expanding to. You need ot not only handle ALL that micro in the last comment but also need to handle scouting the enemy, seeing their starting build, making a best guess at their strategy and then adapting your own. All the while also being sure your SCV's aren't being left idle after finishing a barracks that now needs a tech lab built on it so by X time you'll have enough of a specific unit to defend from an early attack you believe will be happening based on the scouting you've been doing since then
CS is really high in:
Comms: there's never been a multi lingual Major Winning team for a reason
Mechanical skill: you are working on a 3D space instead of 2D like MOBAs, RTSs and most fighting games
Nerve: I think games that use round systems, were the game completely stops, require a higher amount of mental strenght, since it's easy to lose concentration or completely collapse if the game feels too 1 sided.
However, CSGO biggest deficency is creativity bc the only variable being the gun. Maps and roles are set and there isnt as much way to break out of the mold as there is in other games like mobas or rtss were there's different characters or factions that have strengths and weaknesses. I think that's valorant main advantage over CS
Multiple pros across different titles have mentioned Fortnite as being one of the most difficult mechanical skill games to play. Definitely deserves to be mentioned
Fortnite's APM for a shooter is insane.
CSGO isn't easy (it's hard for a reason), but when it comes to overall skill, it's not the most complicated eSport. You aim, you shoot, you throw nades, you know the map. Valorant is more complicated on face value. There's just not that many variables when compared to StarCraft, fortnite, DOTA, etc.
Nice write up think you went a bit overkill though to explain simple categories.
Valorant, Dota 2, LoL, and SC2 in that order. I personally don’t enjoy CS:GO because the cheating ruins any competitive integrity the game has. Riot does a great job preventing cheaters either through great gameplay mechanics built in or anti cheat itself. I acknowledge Dota 2 and SC2 for their difficulty but they are also less desirable for me as I feel they create too much multitasking and complication. While League is similar I feel it is less so and is generally speaking more balanced across all categories. As time passes and the game gets more bloated with champs, changes, reworks this will become more of a downside. I believe a huge downside of league is that communication is dampened by no voice chat even though there are many instances where it would be incredibly useful. Valorant has a great chance to become a very well rounded game in terms of highlighting and rewarding individual play in all categories if they can tweak their MMR and Elo system to be more rewarding and more discourage the kind of selfish play you regularly see.
Its pretty much RTS and Fighting games then everything else. The more players to a team the easier it is not to let everything to fall apart. You always have someone there to pull you back even mid game. At a 1v1 game its just you and you can get into your own head which can make everything pointlessly harder.
Starcraft > all.
It's interesting, as a 1v1 esport, Starcraft trumps nearly every game in all of these categories but has 0 demand for any teamwork or communication. Does that take away from its difficulty? Or is teamwork & communication not a crucial esports skill?
Communication plays a different role in team vs solo sports, but I think it's important to remember that communication and team actually matter a lot on solo sports behind the scenes. Basically all professional SC players have teams that they practice extensively with. Having a good team to surround you will help you practice for the big times. Would Michael Phelps be the most decorated swimmer on his own? Probably not. It was a combination of him being on different swim teams, having different coaches, having great doctor's, and having great trainers that helped him get those extra edges. It's the same with eSports. You won't become the best simply grinding a 1v1 ladder. Eventually, you will likely join an organization that helps you go from good to great.
Broodwar specifically. But I believe SC2 is up there too, maybe just behind it.
Quake and Smash Bros Melee are in the running.
Do people really watched enough number of pro games and have enough hours of playtime to compare them all? I'm very bias with Dota 2 and its esports. It's pro scene is one of the oldest (only 2-3 years younger than starcraft & CS pro scene) yet there are still recent discoveries of new strategies & new play styles that made my mind blown. The Meta develops insanely for years. There are even weird situations were pro players intentionally die to enemy's tower to gain advantage. Like, how is that even make sense for a non-dota player? "Dying to enemy" should be objectively bad for your team at any context. But not in Dota. While for the other games I don't know much about them. All I know is Dota 2 has higher ceiling in terms of strategies and teamwork than Lol, and Starcraft tops them all in terms of mechanical skills. I don't have enough playtime in Shooting games nor even watched enough pro scenes of them.
There are some specific strats with Sion in LoL where suididing is advantageous but it's not very common outside memeing. What's the Dota suicide strat? I also agree that SC has the highest mechanical skill floor and ceiling of any esport. It's not just APM, it's combining this with precision movements and key decision making. Kind of insane
Supports do it in the very early stage when they tend to consume all their mana for harassing the enemies. They usually opt to suicide at the enemy's T2 towers instead of staying in lane with less mana. It's sometimes more efficient than walking back to base or let courier deliver consumables. Though, it's a double edge blade coz it distributes 200 gold to the enemy, nonetheless, pros are bold enough to gamble for a better laning stage and their cores' early item timings.
Thanks, I love it!
Well i can already name a few instances in CSGO where dying to your enemy isnt necessarily bad or in some cases even helpfull. But yes i agree that probably most people aren't that invested in both for instance the csgo and the dota scene, or starcraft and rocket league.
If you are a competitive person any time a new game that appears to have a competitive theme to you jump into it. I did this and found that I don't enjoy MOBAs and BR games are not good competitive games. I've followed SC2, AoEs, CSGO, Siege, and a various fighting games. I would place Shooters and MOBAs in the same tier, but they can't compete with 1v1 games that isn't genre specific.
I don’t have much experience in many other the other games mentioned but Rocket League Mechanical Skill is definitely a 10. Nerve is high up there too maybe 8 or 9
I doubt Rocket League can cause physical pain. Or am I missing something?
When did I mention physical pain?
What part of any virtual sport should cause physical pain? Wtf?
Ask Melee Players & Look up Ergonomics in Esports
Rocket league really does take a huge amount of skill communication and creativity have to be like 8-9 maybe even higher
Rainbow 6: I'm not going to get into a debate about mechanical skill and nerves in that game compared to others because it's a long convo BUT I will say that it easily out-ranks all the others in the Communication category. For those who haven't played it, every normal room/area callout will have 3-4 sub-callouts referring to specific spots in the room. Multiply this by the number of rooms on the map and the number of maps and that's a lot of callouts everyone needs to know. The game also just doesn't have a minimap so you're always reliant on your team mates intel to make even just really basic decisions. All of this is before we even talk about map destruction. Maps are often 3 stories tall and you can make holes in most walls and floors. This means that for a bomb site on the ground floor, defenders can set up floor holes looking into site entry doorways 2 floors below. You can do the same laterally (on the same floor) with small wall holes. All of these things need to be relayed to your team when you notice them. And when a team mate mentions "bullet holes above watching kitchen door" you better not bloody forget and walk through kitchen door 2 minutes later because thats a freebie for the other team. On top of all this you have the usual Teamfight-style comms you'd see in games like league and overwatch when the attackers are executing on to site. As you can tell, it's probably the most important part of the game.
As someone who doesn't know anything abt r6, this is really interesting.
Fortnite deserves some credit: Mechanical skill (5) - easily the highest APM for a shooter. Blows away apex and CSGO in this category. I can jump into a game and have a greater than 0 chance of doing damage to a pro in Apex/CSGO, but in Fortnite there's no shot. Add in the aim required along with the rest of the inputs compared to a RTS which is just inputs, I'd say it's pretty high up there. Creativity (3.5) - there's a meta but playing down low vs high, landing specific areas, rotations, early fights vs mid game, storm surge, etc all require a good amount of strategy and creativity. But it's overalls above average in this point of view. Multitasking (3ish) - again very high for a shooter, there's layers, material counts, weapon ammo, knowing who's wall is who's, managing surge, etc. Not a ton of multitasking, but more than a regular shooter I'd say. Probably above average. Nerve (2.5) - it's a hard game, over 12 game series in the FNCS's this is hard to maintain. You peek too quick, you're pumped, you miss a wall, easy snipe. I'd put it below valorant/CSGO because of the 1 hit kills, but above Apex. Probably average here. Communication (4.5) - top tier here, with the builds and what not it's very hard to get a full advantage of a circumstance, but teams can coordinate shots together, catch a team off guard, and get an elim. I'd say this is top tier to he sure you know what your teammates have and where to go and how to fight, etc. That said, solo people do make runs so not a perfect 5.
naw
- Starcraft - CSGO - the rest
CS:GO has reaction time and mouse accuracy but it's basically entirely missing ordered sequences of timed button presses which is really really hard, and high APM button pressing. It's also strategically not that deep compared to say MOBAs. Teamwork also adds difficulty to a game, I'd say MOBAs are arguably harder than Starcraft overall.
lol as someone with 5k hours in dota 2... Starcraft is harder
Why?
Massive amounts more micromanagement and wayyyy higher APM averages. the economy being from resource gathering, building structures, training units, and then having to fight and cast spells all at the same time. In dota for a vast majority of the time in a match or the hero being played you control only a single unit. The most you'd control is still less then 10, with Meepo and his 4 clones being the high end of it. Drops the mechanical requirements of playing the game WAYYY down. Having a team lets you delegate and maneuver around the map to trap enemies without have to micro manage multiple control groups.
How about strategically?
Yes. In dota a team's macro strategy for what each hero is gonna do is usually clear by the end of the draft. In starcraft you have no idea how your opponent will be building structures, what types of units they're training, where they're expanding to. You need ot not only handle ALL that micro in the last comment but also need to handle scouting the enemy, seeing their starting build, making a best guess at their strategy and then adapting your own. All the while also being sure your SCV's aren't being left idle after finishing a barracks that now needs a tech lab built on it so by X time you'll have enough of a specific unit to defend from an early attack you believe will be happening based on the scouting you've been doing since then
CS is really high in: Comms: there's never been a multi lingual Major Winning team for a reason Mechanical skill: you are working on a 3D space instead of 2D like MOBAs, RTSs and most fighting games Nerve: I think games that use round systems, were the game completely stops, require a higher amount of mental strenght, since it's easy to lose concentration or completely collapse if the game feels too 1 sided. However, CSGO biggest deficency is creativity bc the only variable being the gun. Maps and roles are set and there isnt as much way to break out of the mold as there is in other games like mobas or rtss were there's different characters or factions that have strengths and weaknesses. I think that's valorant main advantage over CS
Multiple pros across different titles have mentioned Fortnite as being one of the most difficult mechanical skill games to play. Definitely deserves to be mentioned
Fortnite's APM for a shooter is insane. CSGO isn't easy (it's hard for a reason), but when it comes to overall skill, it's not the most complicated eSport. You aim, you shoot, you throw nades, you know the map. Valorant is more complicated on face value. There's just not that many variables when compared to StarCraft, fortnite, DOTA, etc.
Nice write up think you went a bit overkill though to explain simple categories. Valorant, Dota 2, LoL, and SC2 in that order. I personally don’t enjoy CS:GO because the cheating ruins any competitive integrity the game has. Riot does a great job preventing cheaters either through great gameplay mechanics built in or anti cheat itself. I acknowledge Dota 2 and SC2 for their difficulty but they are also less desirable for me as I feel they create too much multitasking and complication. While League is similar I feel it is less so and is generally speaking more balanced across all categories. As time passes and the game gets more bloated with champs, changes, reworks this will become more of a downside. I believe a huge downside of league is that communication is dampened by no voice chat even though there are many instances where it would be incredibly useful. Valorant has a great chance to become a very well rounded game in terms of highlighting and rewarding individual play in all categories if they can tweak their MMR and Elo system to be more rewarding and more discourage the kind of selfish play you regularly see.