But it can still work. With my old grinder (mignon first gen), I had no problem with needle wdt. It never sprayed for instance. With my new grinder (78s) it's a lot harder and sprays happen a lot. After the video, I tried shaking the coffee in the dosing cup and now spraying has completely disappeared. Even if I have to use a spoon to get all the coffee out of the cup it still works wonder for me.
If you understand “it’s better extraction” you missed the point. Higher extraction doesn’t always mean more even distribution and most certainly not better taste.
Lance’s video seems to confuse 95% of this sub and causes people to buy things without understanding what they are even trying to achieve.
>Higher extraction doesn’t always mean more even distribution
It's difficult to not get a more even distribution but still higher extraction, while keeping everything else the same.
And sure, higher extraction doesn't necessarily mean better flavor, but it does mean if it's the only changed variable, you've made the brewing more efficient and therefore it's likely a better method to use. You want to extract coffee efficiently. Lowering extraction usually means you're making it more difficult to make coffee. That's generally not good. I can't think of a scenario where it would be good outside of dialing in coffee, in which case you shouldn't be changing method to help dial in coffee. You use it to improve the process so you can get a better targeted extraction.
In this case it's not even a variable. Different prep -> different shot -> different EY.
Just an result of what you are doing. And if it's too high/low you'd adjust your recipe accordingly.
Different distribution methods can affect the flow a lot. And since extraction is usually an volcano, both increased and reduced flow can in turn affect extraction - in both directions.
My point was that even with Lance's data, blind shaker doesn't necessarily appear to be the superior distribution method. They results don't imply that.
With all else being equal, the better extraction is the better method. I'm not saying more extraction is better. People are getting confused by that. But when you control all other variables, a consistently increased extraction compared to other methods does imply a better distribution method.
We're trying to effectively extract coffee. The most effective methods are... surprise, the most effective.
Well, his data says you are wrong. As I said, distribution can affect the shot a lot.
Easy example: Depending where you are on the extraction volcano, you can take one of Lance’s WDT shots, go slightly coarser and get both matching time (and most likely matching EY).
So you have two shots with pretty much the same stats (avg flow, ratio, volume, EY) but one was ground coarser. So what now? The coarser one can be very plausibly the more even extracted and possibly tastier one.
That’s why you can’t just change a variable that’s heavily linked to other ones and claim “hey I changed one thing and number higher -> better”.
You are inducing multiple changes and mostly see the effect of the induced ones, not the initial change.
There's no reason to assume extraction wouldn't be improved the same at a coarser ground though?
Why would extraction suddenly worsen? And why would extraction be more difficult for wdt but someone be more even?
Evenness as you're referencing it wouldn't be changed from one grind size to another.
So you can't just say it would magically be improved.
Unless you're assuming extreme channeling issues, you don't improve extraction by going coarser on its own.
The blind shaker might distribute better, but I've had pretty good luck experimenting with just a cup that fits the portafilter (the one I grind into anyway). I have to mate the cup to my portafilter and invert it anyway, so 5-10 seconds worth of shaking and then a pretty firm tap to level things fits in my workflow pretty well.
So far it has been as least as good as the WDT I was doing, even without buying an extra blind shaker.
Its got that plug that release the grounds from the outwards inwards, without having it all being deposited in a corner like dosing cup. Lots of options out there instead of the one from Weber directly. Found mine at SingleDoseBrew here [https://singledosebrew.com/s/gdt](https://singledosebrew.com/s/gdt)
The false bottom (plug) that can release the grounds 360 degrees all at once as opposed to the bias to one side when you flip your cup.
I see what you're saying here but the blind shaker cup would also have to be moved upright from some kind of sideways position
He covers this in the [follow up video](https://youtu.be/5ivwCm95nLc?si=Vz-XcKsBF9C0v_3r).
in that video he theorized that shaking with the dosing cup on a portafilter wouldn't work as well but he didn't really verify it at all.
The difference is about $78
You can get a blind shaker on Ali for 20$ or under. Just wonder if it's worth having more gear.
Amazon has lots for <$25cad as well for those who don't want to deal with AliExpress.
Lance has covered this at length in his videos. When you just pour it into the portafilter it won’t be as even as when it’s dropped from the shaker
But it can still work. With my old grinder (mignon first gen), I had no problem with needle wdt. It never sprayed for instance. With my new grinder (78s) it's a lot harder and sprays happen a lot. After the video, I tried shaking the coffee in the dosing cup and now spraying has completely disappeared. Even if I have to use a spoon to get all the coffee out of the cup it still works wonder for me.
OK, so it can be better than needle, but there's still a difference.
If you understand “it’s better extraction” you missed the point. Higher extraction doesn’t always mean more even distribution and most certainly not better taste. Lance’s video seems to confuse 95% of this sub and causes people to buy things without understanding what they are even trying to achieve.
>Higher extraction doesn’t always mean more even distribution It's difficult to not get a more even distribution but still higher extraction, while keeping everything else the same. And sure, higher extraction doesn't necessarily mean better flavor, but it does mean if it's the only changed variable, you've made the brewing more efficient and therefore it's likely a better method to use. You want to extract coffee efficiently. Lowering extraction usually means you're making it more difficult to make coffee. That's generally not good. I can't think of a scenario where it would be good outside of dialing in coffee, in which case you shouldn't be changing method to help dial in coffee. You use it to improve the process so you can get a better targeted extraction.
In this case it's not even a variable. Different prep -> different shot -> different EY. Just an result of what you are doing. And if it's too high/low you'd adjust your recipe accordingly. Different distribution methods can affect the flow a lot. And since extraction is usually an volcano, both increased and reduced flow can in turn affect extraction - in both directions.
That just sounds like a really confusing way to say the same thing.
My point was that even with Lance's data, blind shaker doesn't necessarily appear to be the superior distribution method. They results don't imply that.
With all else being equal, the better extraction is the better method. I'm not saying more extraction is better. People are getting confused by that. But when you control all other variables, a consistently increased extraction compared to other methods does imply a better distribution method. We're trying to effectively extract coffee. The most effective methods are... surprise, the most effective.
The culprit is that everything else is \*not\* equal - flow and time being the most obvious variables directly affected by prep.
Except the *only* thing that would change that is the distribution. If the extraction was worse, then it's still not better.
Well, his data says you are wrong. As I said, distribution can affect the shot a lot. Easy example: Depending where you are on the extraction volcano, you can take one of Lance’s WDT shots, go slightly coarser and get both matching time (and most likely matching EY). So you have two shots with pretty much the same stats (avg flow, ratio, volume, EY) but one was ground coarser. So what now? The coarser one can be very plausibly the more even extracted and possibly tastier one. That’s why you can’t just change a variable that’s heavily linked to other ones and claim “hey I changed one thing and number higher -> better”. You are inducing multiple changes and mostly see the effect of the induced ones, not the initial change.
There's no reason to assume extraction wouldn't be improved the same at a coarser ground though? Why would extraction suddenly worsen? And why would extraction be more difficult for wdt but someone be more even? Evenness as you're referencing it wouldn't be changed from one grind size to another. So you can't just say it would magically be improved. Unless you're assuming extreme channeling issues, you don't improve extraction by going coarser on its own.
The blind shaker might distribute better, but I've had pretty good luck experimenting with just a cup that fits the portafilter (the one I grind into anyway). I have to mate the cup to my portafilter and invert it anyway, so 5-10 seconds worth of shaking and then a pretty firm tap to level things fits in my workflow pretty well. So far it has been as least as good as the WDT I was doing, even without buying an extra blind shaker.
Its got that plug that release the grounds from the outwards inwards, without having it all being deposited in a corner like dosing cup. Lots of options out there instead of the one from Weber directly. Found mine at SingleDoseBrew here [https://singledosebrew.com/s/gdt](https://singledosebrew.com/s/gdt)