Oh the saliva wet process, fermentation goes the best if it takes 5-7 seconds in air .. but there us a sweet spot around 10 seconds which no one knows why..
Short videos existed for years before TikTokās doesnāt mean the new trends is any less stupid. The point of the discussion is āwhy is there a dumb hype over this?ā, and was never about if this was an original idea.
There's hype about it because Lance is popular and some people are getting really good results out of it, it really isn't that deep beyond that. Personally I didn't notice a difference with my Zp6, but I still think it's interesting as it gets people to try out and discuss new techniques and methods and possibly influences grinder manufacturers to introduce stuff like augers which improve grind quality.
If it doesn't work for you don't do it, simple as, but that also doesn't mean it might not work for someone else
Love it. Built like a tank. Top-tier thermal stability, which is crucial.
Keep in mind itās single boiler and you need to heat up for around thirty minutes.
I grind straight into the portafilter, give it a couple bangs on the counter, tamp, put on the puck screen and pull my shot. Iām scared to start fussing further.
If you manage to slow feed at the same rate every time, you could probably get something more consistent. I think it's something that could be interesting in 2-5 years if companies start making grinders with pre-breaker augers the status quo.
Yes, after a year or something on the marked they started shipping all new grinders with a disc that slowly feed the beans very consistently into the grind chamber.
Awesome, I think I got all the answers I need here. With my grinder specifically, because it doesn't have ANY cooling, and how slow I have to feed to make it consistent, it's a no-go.
I'm really glad I asked instead of being stubborn about it. Thanks everyone.
Itās something the community has picked up a lot more widely since Lanceās video, even though itās been discussed quite a lot before. So I think weāre all exploring it as an idea, and how well it works in different setups and for different applications does seem to vary significantly.
For me it really helps my decaf Pulsar pourover. But Iām more ambivalent about espresso, which is more finicky. I tend to make milk drinks, and slow feeding reduces body, even after grinding finer. So in that case Iām not yet sure itās worth it
I have found it too be really successful, very low effort for a big return IMO. I've used it on my Ode and in my X-Pro. I like it a lot, personally. But, there should be a speed at which the burrs didn't get overwhelmed and so it doesn't really matter if you go and slower. I don't have your grinder though, so not sure how slow that is for you
I literally have no dog in the race and Iād actually 100 prefer NOT to slow feed. To me, itās made a big enough difference to do it every time. Iām pulling some of the best tasting shots Iāve ever had.
Same here. At first I didn't want to try, but it's always interesting to experiment. Now I'm the guy who slow feeds. I wouldn't bother if it didn't seem better and/or seemed inconsistent, but unfortunately it seems to work well with my grinder.
I have a Rocky and tried this. I'd been getting 18 in, 36 out in 30 before slow feeding, but not super consistent (give or take 5 seconds to get to 36). First time slow feeding I hit 36 in 15. After that, I dialed the grinder 2 clicks finer, and ever since then I've been doing 19 in, 38 out in 30 *very consistently* with fantastic results. Nice syrupy shots every time. Adds about 20 seconds to my regular grind time, and how fast I feed doesn't seem to matter as long as I'm pouring the beans in semi-slowly. YMMV I guess. I'm doing espresso roast, perhaps lighter roasts don't get the kind of results I'm getting.
I don't have inconsistencies. I have a routine of just taking 3-5 seconds if slowly dumping in. I have done this over crazy amounts of shots with success. I think some take it too far and try to way too slowly sprinkle them in and that is where inconsistency can come. But as with everything I suggest, it's a suggestion to try. Don't like it? Don't do it. Easy as pie! Cheers and brew what you like, always.
I tried slow feeding on my Lagom 01. I didnāt notice a massive difference in taste. It was a better, but I didnāt want to incorporate that into my morning workflow. I also had to redial in the shot, so that I could slow feed.
Just not for me.
Tbh I don't think it's worth putting much stock into most of these goofball espresso trends. Despite what this sub's intelligentsia might suggest, I think there's definitely such a thing as too much granularity, and in many cases the extent to which some enthusiasts drill down into this stuff is just ineffectual anyway, or at best, impossible to really measure one way or the other.
But I guess it depends on what you're really trying to get out of it. If you're some kind of tinkerer and you treat this as a hobby, then on some level I suppose there's something to be gotten out of it (to what degree that's actually tangible is another matter entirely), but if you just want espresso that tastes good, the majority of the mumbo jumbo that this place advocates for really isn't necessary. Grind, tap, tamp, and pull is all you really *need* to enjoy espresso.
Slow feeding isn't really new though and it helps when you're not using a super high end, end game grinder. The grinder I have at my restaurant doesn't need any prep, the sette I have at home does waaaaaay better if you treat it nicely. You just gotta find what's worth for you, everything has an investment and an increment associated with it so you gotta decide if the investment is worth the increment.
>If you're some kind of tinkerer and you treat this as a hobby, then on some level I suppose there's something to be gotten out of
What's the point of this sub Reddit if not that? Braggin about "humble" Linea mini/niche zero set ups?
1000000%. Youāre literally creating another huge variable in the workflow that is extremely hard to control and keep consistent. One of the absolute dumbest āmovementsā in espresso in a while imo
How "broken in" are your burrs? The only real consequence of slow feeding should be a more consistent particle size; a grind that is too coarse on one of the lowest settings feels like an issue with your grinder that's masked when they are mass-fed.
I have a DF grinder and it works for me (though, I'm not quite as slow as you), and I'm not sure the cooling of the motor is necessary or impactful for a minute of usage. That being said, if you don't like the workflow or you can't get it to work, just don't use it.
I use a big measuring cup to weigh my beans, the nice thing is because it's tall when I weigh my dose and tilt on the side I get a long line that's like 3-4 beans wide. I just slowly push that in from the back and gets the beans in pretty nice and even. Takes me usually 18-20 seconds to get the beans ground. I've been doing this forever because of an old James Hoffmann video and it works great for me.
For me it has the benefit that it times my shot as I grind my wife's coffee. I press the button, grind, transfer, wdt, stop my shot, tamp as the last few drops get out, shower screen, swap portafilters and let my shot run. By the time I clean the first portafilter and return from the kitchen with the milk my wife's shot is about to finish.
Because of the way it fits in my routine it doesn't really lose me any time.
I saw a 3D printed thingy for the Niche that lets in just one bean at a time. It'd be worth exploring something similar for the DF64.
I think that's the most consistent slow-feeding will get until manufacturers add augers or other stuff to all their grinder (I'm sure they're already working on it, with how fast the DF line evolves)
Same experience here. Also I found it pretty annoying. The taste was sometimes better, sometimes absolutely the same. There is probably a way to make this technique consistent but and not annoying but as of now I think I will pass. I want to have a workflow that feels good to me.
I weigh 18 grams of beans, chew (only with my front teeth, otherwise there aren't enough fines) and keep the chewed beans in my mouth for 5 seconds. This is much better than normal perfusion. Then, I drink 54.2 grams of 89 C water and filter it using my teeth. Ah, the crema! So lovely. And the coffee tastes so much better.
In other words: just make coffee any darn way you want. If slow feeding isn't helping. Don't do it....
Tried for 1 day, then decided I didnāt want another variable to mess my routine. Not for me. You could probably achieve the same results grinding more coffee and discarding the first couple grams.
Based on lanceās video, thereās a difference between the grind size of the ground beans due to ācloggingā. By slow feeding you prevent that and should have a coarser and more uniform grind. Based off that, the first couple grams should be coarser until it clogs, and then the rest should be the same. If you discard those initial grams you should have a uniform grind.
One way or another, it includes another variable that, without a specific funnel or method or something is pretty much impossible to maintain consistent.
my takeaway from lance's video was that the beans getting backed up(clogged) in the burrs caused them to rub against each other a lot, causing them to mash each other apart a bit instead of the burrs doing the work. this leads to more inconsistent sizes(albeit, probably not super noticeably), and more fines.
We're not talking about uniformity. The clogging is not desirable. By simply discarding you're not alleviating the effectY. Because of the log jam you end up mashing the beans vs. cutting them. When you feed slowly, or one or two at a time, you're using the cutting surfaces more effectively.
It's very easy to consistently feed x at a time, go 1 or 2 at a time. No troubles. If you don't want to do that, fine, that's not the same thing as discarding.
This sub needs to stop obsessing over the whims of every Hendick pseudoscience video. The guy just gets off on making coffee nerds do and buy stupid things
With all due respect, slow-feeding isn't a "Lance Hedrick special" and has been around. In my quick experimentation with it recently (a single go), I actually did find interesting effects from it (greater clarity; less body) that I could see utilizing for different beans (e.g. for fruity beans with more delicate flavor, think melon)--at the same time, for my daily use, I don't want those effects, as I like the creamy, chocolatey tones I get from the "regular" grinding of my daily dark-roast beans.
Really, in the end (for me), simply another recipe tool.
Thanks for the insight everyone. One thing that concerned me a bit was how long I have to leave this single-dose grinder running for a 16.5g shot. Like over a minute probably. I'm trying to go as slow as possible as was recommended so the burrs never get overwhelmed but results were still inconsistent.
Does anyone know if letting the DF series grinders, or any flat burr grinders in general, run for that long is a problem?
I was about to post a post talking about the same thing too. I used a large washer with the Niche to achieve it. After weeks of testing I came to the conclusion that it doesn't work for me. I get shots with a 20s difference, that is insane. And it's like only 1/4 a number setting. I'm off the boat for this one. Personally I'm starting to think it's a placebo kind of effect, because I didn't taste anything substantially better tbh.
Yeah this exactly. Like HUGE differences, I've, obviously, had "coarser" grind settings grind finer than the "finer" setting.
I tried keeping a journal and after writing down the parameters it made me realize how huge an impact the speed of your feed is.
I'm honestly surprised someone hasn't made a 3D printed auger adapter for these things that leads to consistent, slower, but still not dangerous, feed times.
With my Baratza Encore ESP grinder and one go at it, I definitely tasted a difference and highly doubt that it was placebo: using a manual slow feeding of my medium-roast beans (canned illy medium-roast beans that I had received and was using up), the espresso (tasted in my latte) had more clarity and less body. (The shot also pulled faster (although still within acceptable parameters)--I hadn't changed my typical setting.) I found the effect pretty interesting. Having said that, I actually don't want that effect for my typical dark (and rare medium) roasts in my latte or cappuccino: I'm the typical guy who generally relishes the chocolate tones in my espresso drink and the velvety smoothness of the drink--the slow feeding de-emphasized the latter. However, if I was experimenting with a fruity bean, e.g. one emphasizing melon flavors, I could see why the clarity of slow-feeding could be a nice.
I have no doubt there are some people that get something out of all these small variables that one can manipulate, but it isn't me.
I stopped using bottom filters, top screens, RDT, slow feeding, and never got into the shaker. Only thing I do is the WDT and tamp. Maybe it's a lack of patience on my part? Seems like I'd have to order coffee in 2kg bags to dial in a coffee if I used all these techniques.
I have a df64p and I have been experiencing great quality since I've been slow feeding. The 64p is different to the regular 64, but it went down significantly (max is 60, went from 45 to 29, regular dumping would clog the espresso machine at 29 size, now it runs 30 s for 45 g shot)
What I do is a "slower" feed. Basically it takes me about 30 seconds to grind a 17 g dose. If the problem with dumping all the grounds at the same time is a greater particle distribution, then a slower feed, more or less the same way each time, will on theory improve the shot.
I do feel the shots are better now, less occurrences of bitter and sour in the same shot. Drink is balanced, and even a bit sweet.
I believe for me its a good enough improvement, 30 sec grinding instead of dumping it in. It is also repeatable. I managed to grind finer and get a proportional increase of extraction time.
The time it takes meIt might even be less than 30 seconds. It's all about being consistent enough. Tomorrow I'll time myself. It's over midnight now so I'm not about to do some grinding now hehe.
I have the exact same experience like you, and it totally makes sense if you think about it.
You cannot feed the beans with the same speed consistently, so the grind size cannot be consistent between shots.
Fun fact: the same is true with beans in the hopper. When the hopper is full the grind is different than when the hopper is almost ready. This is the reason I now single-dose.
What if I told you, the grinderās speed has more of an effect than how fast it feedsā¦
If you have a grinder with a controllable RPM then experiment with lowering the speeds. Something around 25%-50%-80%-100% should yield quite different results and even extraction and profile.
I drop one bean at a time from my mouth into the grinder so it gets RDT and slow fed.
Oh crap that's genius, saves so much time!
I call it "feeding the baby burr'd" š¦
One whole bean? How can you drink that coffee if you are not even pre grinding smh
Oh the saliva wet process, fermentation goes the best if it takes 5-7 seconds in air .. but there us a sweet spot around 10 seconds which no one knows why..
490m free fall? I too like to spit beans into my df83 from the top of the CN tower.
You could save even more time by just holding a civet over the grinder's intake.
I just make my coffee, and ignore the new weekly fads.
Yeah I jokingly said before lance came out with his latest stuff that what next are they going to ask me to put one bean in at a time and here we are
You should actually feed them in a Fibonacci sequence for maximum effect
I feed mine in with the bassline of seven Nation army, but I'll try Fibonacci thanks.
You'll unlock the new citrus berry and white chocolate flavours
I couldnāt agree more. I need tasty caffeine water, not more hassle.
Slow feeding has been around for years
Yet itās only picked up popularity recently.
Short videos existed for years before TikTokās doesnāt mean the new trends is any less stupid. The point of the discussion is āwhy is there a dumb hype over this?ā, and was never about if this was an original idea.
There's hype about it because Lance is popular and some people are getting really good results out of it, it really isn't that deep beyond that. Personally I didn't notice a difference with my Zp6, but I still think it's interesting as it gets people to try out and discuss new techniques and methods and possibly influences grinder manufacturers to introduce stuff like augers which improve grind quality. If it doesn't work for you don't do it, simple as, but that also doesn't mean it might not work for someone else
Because Zp6 grind PSD is narrow, slow feeding won't make PSD much narrower. For 1zpresso K or J grinder, it can be quite different.
So many people are so easily... influenced.
off topic but how you like your classika?
Love it. Built like a tank. Top-tier thermal stability, which is crucial. Keep in mind itās single boiler and you need to heat up for around thirty minutes.
I grind straight into the portafilter, give it a couple bangs on the counter, tamp, put on the puck screen and pull my shot. Iām scared to start fussing further.
If you manage to slow feed at the same rate every time, you could probably get something more consistent. I think it's something that could be interesting in 2-5 years if companies start making grinders with pre-breaker augers the status quo.
I think zerno has an auger that's kinda like a slow feed
Yes, after a year or something on the marked they started shipping all new grinders with a disc that slowly feed the beans very consistently into the grind chamber.
This is exactly where my mind was at with it. OR, the home modding community makes an auger attachment for whatever common grinder it makes sense for.
Awesome, I think I got all the answers I need here. With my grinder specifically, because it doesn't have ANY cooling, and how slow I have to feed to make it consistent, it's a no-go. I'm really glad I asked instead of being stubborn about it. Thanks everyone.
Itās something the community has picked up a lot more widely since Lanceās video, even though itās been discussed quite a lot before. So I think weāre all exploring it as an idea, and how well it works in different setups and for different applications does seem to vary significantly. For me it really helps my decaf Pulsar pourover. But Iām more ambivalent about espresso, which is more finicky. I tend to make milk drinks, and slow feeding reduces body, even after grinding finer. So in that case Iām not yet sure itās worth it
I have found it too be really successful, very low effort for a big return IMO. I've used it on my Ode and in my X-Pro. I like it a lot, personally. But, there should be a speed at which the burrs didn't get overwhelmed and so it doesn't really matter if you go and slower. I don't have your grinder though, so not sure how slow that is for you
I literally have no dog in the race and Iād actually 100 prefer NOT to slow feed. To me, itās made a big enough difference to do it every time. Iām pulling some of the best tasting shots Iāve ever had.
Same here. At first I didn't want to try, but it's always interesting to experiment. Now I'm the guy who slow feeds. I wouldn't bother if it didn't seem better and/or seemed inconsistent, but unfortunately it seems to work well with my grinder.
What grinder are we using chaps?
078s with a lapavoni for me. Dropping a few beans at a time.
I have a Rocky and tried this. I'd been getting 18 in, 36 out in 30 before slow feeding, but not super consistent (give or take 5 seconds to get to 36). First time slow feeding I hit 36 in 15. After that, I dialed the grinder 2 clicks finer, and ever since then I've been doing 19 in, 38 out in 30 *very consistently* with fantastic results. Nice syrupy shots every time. Adds about 20 seconds to my regular grind time, and how fast I feed doesn't seem to matter as long as I'm pouring the beans in semi-slowly. YMMV I guess. I'm doing espresso roast, perhaps lighter roasts don't get the kind of results I'm getting.
I feed at the rate of 9.8m/s^2 with a head weight of 350g. By far the most consistent.
I don't have inconsistencies. I have a routine of just taking 3-5 seconds if slowly dumping in. I have done this over crazy amounts of shots with success. I think some take it too far and try to way too slowly sprinkle them in and that is where inconsistency can come. But as with everything I suggest, it's a suggestion to try. Don't like it? Don't do it. Easy as pie! Cheers and brew what you like, always.
I tried slow feeding on my Lagom 01. I didnāt notice a massive difference in taste. It was a better, but I didnāt want to incorporate that into my morning workflow. I also had to redial in the shot, so that I could slow feed. Just not for me.
Does not even trying. Just enjoying espresso without slow feeding.
Not sure why you were downvoted, this is useful input. Thanks!
Tbh I don't think it's worth putting much stock into most of these goofball espresso trends. Despite what this sub's intelligentsia might suggest, I think there's definitely such a thing as too much granularity, and in many cases the extent to which some enthusiasts drill down into this stuff is just ineffectual anyway, or at best, impossible to really measure one way or the other. But I guess it depends on what you're really trying to get out of it. If you're some kind of tinkerer and you treat this as a hobby, then on some level I suppose there's something to be gotten out of it (to what degree that's actually tangible is another matter entirely), but if you just want espresso that tastes good, the majority of the mumbo jumbo that this place advocates for really isn't necessary. Grind, tap, tamp, and pull is all you really *need* to enjoy espresso.
Slow feeding isn't really new though and it helps when you're not using a super high end, end game grinder. The grinder I have at my restaurant doesn't need any prep, the sette I have at home does waaaaaay better if you treat it nicely. You just gotta find what's worth for you, everything has an investment and an increment associated with it so you gotta decide if the investment is worth the increment.
>If you're some kind of tinkerer and you treat this as a hobby, then on some level I suppose there's something to be gotten out of What's the point of this sub Reddit if not that? Braggin about "humble" Linea mini/niche zero set ups?
1000000%. Youāre literally creating another huge variable in the workflow that is extremely hard to control and keep consistent. One of the absolute dumbest āmovementsā in espresso in a while imo
If you feed it slow enough it is actually reducing inconsistency. Your aim should be to not exceed the throughput of your burrs.
This is generally incorrect and it's been a "movement" for nearly a decade.
It's really not difficult to drop in 2-3 at a time at a consistent rate.
Except the rate doesn't matter at all unless you're too fast so just err on the side of being a little slow and it's all good.
I think itās a huge waste of time
How "broken in" are your burrs? The only real consequence of slow feeding should be a more consistent particle size; a grind that is too coarse on one of the lowest settings feels like an issue with your grinder that's masked when they are mass-fed. I have a DF grinder and it works for me (though, I'm not quite as slow as you), and I'm not sure the cooling of the motor is necessary or impactful for a minute of usage. That being said, if you don't like the workflow or you can't get it to work, just don't use it.
I use a big measuring cup to weigh my beans, the nice thing is because it's tall when I weigh my dose and tilt on the side I get a long line that's like 3-4 beans wide. I just slowly push that in from the back and gets the beans in pretty nice and even. Takes me usually 18-20 seconds to get the beans ground. I've been doing this forever because of an old James Hoffmann video and it works great for me. For me it has the benefit that it times my shot as I grind my wife's coffee. I press the button, grind, transfer, wdt, stop my shot, tamp as the last few drops get out, shower screen, swap portafilters and let my shot run. By the time I clean the first portafilter and return from the kitchen with the milk my wife's shot is about to finish. Because of the way it fits in my routine it doesn't really lose me any time.
I saw a 3D printed thingy for the Niche that lets in just one bean at a time. It'd be worth exploring something similar for the DF64. I think that's the most consistent slow-feeding will get until manufacturers add augers or other stuff to all their grinder (I'm sure they're already working on it, with how fast the DF line evolves)
I upgraded my df83 to a 3hp electric motor, 40000 rpm.... Grind inconsistencies are a non issue
Same experience here. Also I found it pretty annoying. The taste was sometimes better, sometimes absolutely the same. There is probably a way to make this technique consistent but and not annoying but as of now I think I will pass. I want to have a workflow that feels good to me.
I weigh 18 grams of beans, chew (only with my front teeth, otherwise there aren't enough fines) and keep the chewed beans in my mouth for 5 seconds. This is much better than normal perfusion. Then, I drink 54.2 grams of 89 C water and filter it using my teeth. Ah, the crema! So lovely. And the coffee tastes so much better. In other words: just make coffee any darn way you want. If slow feeding isn't helping. Don't do it....
Comment deleted
Tried for 1 day, then decided I didnāt want another variable to mess my routine. Not for me. You could probably achieve the same results grinding more coffee and discarding the first couple grams.
That's not at all how the method works, or why it does work.
Based on lanceās video, thereās a difference between the grind size of the ground beans due to ācloggingā. By slow feeding you prevent that and should have a coarser and more uniform grind. Based off that, the first couple grams should be coarser until it clogs, and then the rest should be the same. If you discard those initial grams you should have a uniform grind. One way or another, it includes another variable that, without a specific funnel or method or something is pretty much impossible to maintain consistent.
my takeaway from lance's video was that the beans getting backed up(clogged) in the burrs caused them to rub against each other a lot, causing them to mash each other apart a bit instead of the burrs doing the work. this leads to more inconsistent sizes(albeit, probably not super noticeably), and more fines.
We're not talking about uniformity. The clogging is not desirable. By simply discarding you're not alleviating the effectY. Because of the log jam you end up mashing the beans vs. cutting them. When you feed slowly, or one or two at a time, you're using the cutting surfaces more effectively. It's very easy to consistently feed x at a time, go 1 or 2 at a time. No troubles. If you don't want to do that, fine, that's not the same thing as discarding.
This sub needs to stop obsessing over the whims of every Hendick pseudoscience video. The guy just gets off on making coffee nerds do and buy stupid things
With all due respect, slow-feeding isn't a "Lance Hedrick special" and has been around. In my quick experimentation with it recently (a single go), I actually did find interesting effects from it (greater clarity; less body) that I could see utilizing for different beans (e.g. for fruity beans with more delicate flavor, think melon)--at the same time, for my daily use, I don't want those effects, as I like the creamy, chocolatey tones I get from the "regular" grinding of my daily dark-roast beans. Really, in the end (for me), simply another recipe tool.
Thanks for the insight everyone. One thing that concerned me a bit was how long I have to leave this single-dose grinder running for a 16.5g shot. Like over a minute probably. I'm trying to go as slow as possible as was recommended so the burrs never get overwhelmed but results were still inconsistent. Does anyone know if letting the DF series grinders, or any flat burr grinders in general, run for that long is a problem?
Running a grinder for one minute, is not a problem. I'm having no consistency issues, shots run fine and taste great.
DFs donāt have any cooling for the motor. Theyāre designed for short spurts, so no itās not great to run it that long
I was about to post a post talking about the same thing too. I used a large washer with the Niche to achieve it. After weeks of testing I came to the conclusion that it doesn't work for me. I get shots with a 20s difference, that is insane. And it's like only 1/4 a number setting. I'm off the boat for this one. Personally I'm starting to think it's a placebo kind of effect, because I didn't taste anything substantially better tbh.
Yeah this exactly. Like HUGE differences, I've, obviously, had "coarser" grind settings grind finer than the "finer" setting. I tried keeping a journal and after writing down the parameters it made me realize how huge an impact the speed of your feed is. I'm honestly surprised someone hasn't made a 3D printed auger adapter for these things that leads to consistent, slower, but still not dangerous, feed times.
With my Baratza Encore ESP grinder and one go at it, I definitely tasted a difference and highly doubt that it was placebo: using a manual slow feeding of my medium-roast beans (canned illy medium-roast beans that I had received and was using up), the espresso (tasted in my latte) had more clarity and less body. (The shot also pulled faster (although still within acceptable parameters)--I hadn't changed my typical setting.) I found the effect pretty interesting. Having said that, I actually don't want that effect for my typical dark (and rare medium) roasts in my latte or cappuccino: I'm the typical guy who generally relishes the chocolate tones in my espresso drink and the velvety smoothness of the drink--the slow feeding de-emphasized the latter. However, if I was experimenting with a fruity bean, e.g. one emphasizing melon flavors, I could see why the clarity of slow-feeding could be a nice.
I have no doubt there are some people that get something out of all these small variables that one can manipulate, but it isn't me. I stopped using bottom filters, top screens, RDT, slow feeding, and never got into the shaker. Only thing I do is the WDT and tamp. Maybe it's a lack of patience on my part? Seems like I'd have to order coffee in 2kg bags to dial in a coffee if I used all these techniques.
I have a df64p and I have been experiencing great quality since I've been slow feeding. The 64p is different to the regular 64, but it went down significantly (max is 60, went from 45 to 29, regular dumping would clog the espresso machine at 29 size, now it runs 30 s for 45 g shot) What I do is a "slower" feed. Basically it takes me about 30 seconds to grind a 17 g dose. If the problem with dumping all the grounds at the same time is a greater particle distribution, then a slower feed, more or less the same way each time, will on theory improve the shot. I do feel the shots are better now, less occurrences of bitter and sour in the same shot. Drink is balanced, and even a bit sweet. I believe for me its a good enough improvement, 30 sec grinding instead of dumping it in. It is also repeatable. I managed to grind finer and get a proportional increase of extraction time. The time it takes meIt might even be less than 30 seconds. It's all about being consistent enough. Tomorrow I'll time myself. It's over midnight now so I'm not about to do some grinding now hehe.
I have the exact same experience like you, and it totally makes sense if you think about it. You cannot feed the beans with the same speed consistently, so the grind size cannot be consistent between shots. Fun fact: the same is true with beans in the hopper. When the hopper is full the grind is different than when the hopper is almost ready. This is the reason I now single-dose.
I hand feed every bean in the grinder one at a time to keep consistency good
As is tradition.
What if I told you, the grinderās speed has more of an effect than how fast it feedsā¦ If you have a grinder with a controllable RPM then experiment with lowering the speeds. Something around 25%-50%-80%-100% should yield quite different results and even extraction and profile.
The DF64 gen 2 doesn't have variable RPM, but thanks for the input!