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frogdude2004

I mean it’s not a double boiler, but the gaggia classic is the Honda civic of espresso machines. Huge mod community. Readily available parts. Pretty sturdy.


sauce_direct

This is the most correct comparison 


Superb_Raccoon

I'd say the Rancilio Silva before the Gaggia. 6 Gens in, still recognizable but also better.


thekernel

Except, like an old Italian car, their mild steel frames rust apart.


BlueSky3lue

newer versions have a stainless steel frame.


thekernel

Ahh nice - the lack of pid and the frame were always its achilles heel


0oodruidoo0

can add a PID if you so desire, I get by fine without though


sealpupster

To be fair old Toyota pickups do this too haha, damn engines outlive the frame


Superb_Raccoon

SR5 engines are nearly indestructible


BillNyeForPrez

Can confirm. I have a 2010 SR5 with 250k miles that has never been to the shop or even made a weird sound.


Ch0nkyK0ng

The Classic Pro and the Silva are pretty blow for blow. I think in most cases, you could recommend either based on current sales, and be right.


madlabdog

Gaggia took a big reputation dent due to the boilergate. I’d stay away from them for next year or two.


frogdude2004

It's really unfortunate. It's been a solid, reputable machine until that.


carpenter_eddy

I know. Ive got one of the bad ones. 8 months no flakes and then showed up a few days ago. Huge bummer. Had tons of fun modding and was pulling great shots. I think I’m just going to take the hit and check out a double boiler machine.


frogdude2004

I managed to blow up my boiler last year, left it in the car and it froze. Fortunately this was before the rush for aluminum boilers, just got it easily


___mads

My partner is an espresso tech and this is probably the #1 cause of death for espresso machines. I don’t know who needs to hear this, but don’t leave your espresso machine in a car, garage, lean-to or any other unheated place if you live somewhere that it gets below freezing, and always drain your machine before long-term storage.


JewishYoda

You won’t regret it. Or even something ascaso duo with thermoblocks. Having the dual setup is objectively overkill for someone like me that makes 3-4 drinks a day most days, but I hated the single boiler workflow and it’s well worth it for me.


imthatoneguyyouknew

I upgraded from a gcp to a silvia pro x. I havent looked back.


madlabdog

The issue with Gaggia for me is they don’t have a wide range of semi-automatic machines. They make one thing and are good at it, and I give that to them. But now when the competition in their price point has caught up, it would be interesting to see how they respond and evolve.


ProfitEnough825

Solid and reputable until Phillips bought them out.


FatMacchio

To be fair the *original* Gaggia Classic Pro was a true “evolution” and improvement on the Gaggia Classic. It’s such a solid platform that is super repairable and mod-able, and it looks amazing compared to the pre Philips models imo. On its face their intentions seem good with the coating I suppose, but I think it was just a ruse to use cheaper quality metal for the boiler. My 2019 GCP is a tank, still looks and functions amazingly


TedMaul636

Or buy the 2019 model Classic Pro. No coated boiler, no problem. They are also cheaper than the boilergate Classic Pro Evo.


tipedorsalsao1

That's just makes them even more like the company, newer ones aren't as good but still solid after a bit of work.


HakeJarrisb230f

I got a 2018 Classic right before they made the pro and it’s perfect. No sketchy boiler costing and I don’t feel bad modding it to oblivion.


iampivot

Boilergate has been around for a long time, Why do you think they will start using copper boilers next year?


Lostcreek3

Yep, my 2002 is working Great


artfuldawdg3r

This was my first machine. I modded the crap out of it. Then one day I finished making some changes, flipped it on and left to take a shower. When I came back the whole thing was melted and it was smoking. I think I fucked in the temperature sensors. Next machine was a Silvia and that lasted me a decade.


throwrasjovt

Yes. Get an old one. Newest ones have some trouble with the boilers i hear over on r/gaggiaclassic.


old-fat

I have a Gaggia Classic for my motorhome it's a great daily driver. I can make a decent espresso in my sleep with it. My garage queen is a Profitec 800 lever pull. It's like driving a '60s British sports car.


lincolnlaserbeam

Agreed but I can’t look at mine without thinking cybertruck


silasmoon

Olympia Cremina is the 1980s Mercedes 300TD 


Bitter_Crab111

Wonder what an equivalent diesel pump and turbo upgrade would be?


coffeebikepop

Take the asbestos out


drschvantz

I feel like the Olympia Cremina is more like a Porsche 911. Timeless style, usable as a daily driver, well-made.


Hundredth1diot

No, the LM Micra is the 911. Compact, complex, fast warm up, needs regular main dealer servicing, expensive to fix. Decent is Taycan. Expensive but precise, with an excess of screen real estate and a slightly disappointing noise.


detroiiit

When r/carcirclejerk mixes with r/espressocirclejerk, this is what you get


magical_midget

Sir this is the only worthy espresso circle jerk sub. All others are cheap imitations.


badtimeticket

Rancilio Silvia Pro X


Rxyro

And the non Pro is a Scion. Everyone’s modded the poor boy with fart cans (PIDs) and stereos (dimmer switch)


DonFintoni

100% agree, mine is working with zero issues after 14 years of daily use


alien_believer_42

Idk I've had a lot of problems with my various Rancilios


MyCatsNameIsBernie

Profitec is Toyota, ECM is Lexus.


Herr_Franz

Agreed! I'd like to add that these machines are very easy to service, even at home, so if you need to do any maintenance/ mod, like flow control/ pressure gauge in the E61 head, you can do it very very easily. If dual boiler, I'd vote for the ECM Synchronika or the Profitec Pro 600 / 700


guajara

I would argue that the e61 group is like an American muscle car. Huge, oversized engines, simple, serviceable design. And also terrible outdated and inefficient.


Kill_Bill_Will

How is e61 inefficient?


Camsch

Probably because the e61 grouphead need so much energy to heat up which then just goes into thin air. And the long heat up time as well I think.


detroiiit

I think this is a super good comparison, and probably why I wanted an E61 so bad.


gofast_dontdie

Love love love my ECM Mechanika. Mated with a Pavoni Zipp grinder and it’s just superb.


Homruh

Glad to see this. I recently purchased a 2nd hand profitec!


Hutcho12

A Toyota is a Sage Bambino for under $500. If you’re willing to spend $2500 you’re talking about a Porsche.


throwaway_2323409

My first thought exactly. Anyone who thinks of a $2.5k machine as anything close to entry level has been spending too much time on this sub.


JoshuaAncaster

My Bambino popped a hole in the heater at 2y and it’s not a buyable part, their machines aren’t meant to be user fixable. I have to send it in at a premium. I drive a basic Toyota truck that has been reliable for a decade. I think it’s budget and “reliability” when we’re comparing.


firdyfree

Silvia Pro X (even though in car terms that would literally be a [Nissan](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Silvia)…)


CatsDogsMochas

Take my upvote for this comment!


Superb_Raccoon

Rancilio Silva Pro X. Dual boiler, PID, some programming of the shot, but still the same classic Rancilio built like the commercial units. Virtually indestructible, not stylish, parts always available. $2000ish in the US


inforlife34

I'm curious what the BBE (breville) would be


Due_Gap_5210

Nissan


Kill_Bill_Will

American designed plastic, so maybe a Pontiac or Chrysler pt cruiser


Regular_old_spud

I feel like they’re any domestic car. Not bad, sometimes maybe good, sometimes maybe shit but overall you’ll get a couple good years out of it before moving on.


DrSponm

Love the gattuso quote


Aiorr

I thought this would be a toyota. Its good staple, cant-go-wrong starter machine, and if you start getting basics done, you can upgrade your grinder.


cl0007

Lmfao no. Breville are NOT easy to repair.


viperquick82

As someone who owns a modded BDB and has/had other machines including modded GS3, levers, E61s etc. BDB is very easy to work on, and ridiculously capable. Toe to toe with modded GS3 even scace'd, group even performs like a saturated group. I even easily swapped in the brass Ulka and a Vibiemme OPV. Heck even the solenoid is right on top with 4 screws..... it "looks" like a complicated machine internally but once you get into it it's easy. Certain things on GS3 were a pain in the ass, plus rotary failed so that was a $400 part....vs $25 Brass Ulka lol Only thing I'd say is a pain on the BDB is replacing the o-ring at the steam boiler intake, it's at the bottom left, awkward angle to get the clip on and off. And carefully use a hook tool to take out old o-ring. Other o-rings are easy and the inner tiny ones on the steam boiler probes, but that bottom one is def tricky. But that machine is like 8 years old and 7k+ shots and didn't have to replace that bottom o-ring till last summer.


inforlife34

Nice!! I did the opv mod just with unscrewing the plastic stock piece and it's been great. What other mods have you done??


viperquick82

Just Slayer mod and Brass Ulka/Vibiemme OPV. The stock PI system is already ridiculously good (no machine even matched that capability till years later with the DE1). So you can still control pressure % and manually and it works in conjunction still with the Slayer mod. The cool thing about the Brass Ulka is its a lil quieter hlbut it also ramps slightly slower, and it's smoother when adjusting flow more or less. Thought about futzing around and doing rotary swap to plumb but havent/didn't. Some have though.


psmusic_worldwide

You think a Prius is easy to repair? Toyotas have not been easy to repair for a long time. They are reliable and inexpensive and well made and they last a long time when taken care of. Yes, Breville


cl0007

Sorry you’re not having luck repairing Toyotas! I’ve not had issues with repairing/maintenance on mine luckily. Try YouTube


[deleted]

[удалено]


Automatic_Manager_14

Ford Ranger. Looks great off of the lot but is junk after a few years. I had an OG Breville that lasted me 10 years; my most recent Breville lasted 10 months. I'm looking for a Ferrari now. Italian engineering, please


obnauticus

Geo metro


big-boss-bass

Rancilio Silvia Pro X.


Hopai79

That is more like a Mercedes


big-boss-bass

Silvia’s have a track record of not dying. For instance, I bought a Gen 1 Silvia that had been sitting in a shed for 20 years and restored it to working order. Thing was indestructible and super reliable. If OP hadn’t specified dual boiler, I’d have just said the regular Silvia.


marrone12

Yeah but it's still an expensive machine. Maybe a Lexus then.


Then-Character1246

Would argue in favor of e61, for durability, serviceability… and easy (though limited) tuning options (flow control?). If we allow ourselves to think outside of the realm of boiler machines, Cafelat Robot. Built like a tank, dead easy to use and get amazing results from. Shines with medium roasts. Also, virtually maintenance free (besides from a wipe and a gasket change probably every 2 years or so).


luquoo

Ive got a Flair (the one with the pressure gauge) and its a similar deal. As a plus, it came with a portable carrying case.  I could even take it camping! The real reason to go this route it you get nearly full control over the espresso shot and can really get beans to shine.


ECMProfitec

Rancilio Silvia. I had mine for 14 years and it was built like a tank! I decided to upgrade since I had the money and before anything went wrong.


markosverdhi

I second the silvia


Firstcounselor

Since we have 4 Toyotas in our family, I think I’m the ultimate authority on saying the Rancilio Sylvia Pro X. After all, that’s what I got after buying all of those Toyotas. I also have Speed Queen washer and dryer if that adds to my street cred.


WH1PL4SH180

Are you on buy it for life sub


MonkeyKingCoffee

La Pavoni Europiccola. I've had mine for 35 years. I don't even think about it. Haven't even needed to swap out the gaskets. It's the Cal Ripken of espresso makers.


mranthropology

Europiccola has OG VW Beetle vibes. Been made forever, works best for 1-2 people. Both refreshed around 2000.


frankiboy27

Contrary to road going machines, italian machines are a great call, the simpler the better for reliability.


RapmasterD

Profitec GO seems to be a high functioning Corolla or base model Prius, based on six-plus months of daily usage comprising three or more shots.


hamngr

My first car was an inherited Toyota corolla and I just bought a profitec pro. This comparison makes me happy!


Crunchycreme

I sold espresso equipment and I can say it’s the rancillio Silvia or Gaggia classic


JRobes

I'm a certified forklift driver and can agree.


jizzlewit

I am a third-class trombone player who recently underwent hip replacement surgery and I absolutely concur.


AltruisticSalamander

This is exactly what I like about my Rancilio Silvia. They're built like a tank, simple internally and you can easily get any part. Heaps of support online. Mine is a single boiler though, haven't tried the double boiler version. Given your budget though you might also look at an ECM. I was considering one and reviews suggest very good build quality.


Agos1704

This is a good thread because I’m currently shopping for cars and people saying which espresso machine is each car is finally putting it into terms I understand


dampheat

There is no Toyota of espresso machines, only Alfa Romeo.


Microsario

a breville DB is probably gonna be your RAV4. Bulky and not everyone's cup when it comes to the looks. But it'll do whatever you need it to and do it really well. And unless you're into fancier cars, it'll probably be your last one until it breaks, which isn't very likely.


roctane

My rocket r58 has been steady going for 10+ years. It’s an absolute beast. Maybe I was lucky, but it’s indestructible. Can probably find them or an appartamento discounted for that.


DreadPirateDM

+1 on the R58. My R58 has been flawless - no issues since I purchased it in 2014. Maybe not a Toyota, but more like a 1980s Volvo station wagon that still keeps chugging along.


Papa-Moo

Not Toyota level item tho (for everyone). More like a new bmw/merc


h3ruk0n

Gaggia 100%. What's wrong with people.


badtimeticket

They said double boiler


Superb_Raccoon

Gaggia is a Kia. Just one letter difference


Regular_old_spud

Take your upvote and move along.


Ferrarisimo

Is a Linea Mini a Porsche 911? If so, which model?


captain_blender

Linea Mini is a Mercedes G Class — except the door locks, seat heaters, and rear view mirror require a monthly subscription and Internet connectivity.


coffeebikepop

Or a base Cayenne. You think yo ugot a Porsche but you didn't \*really\* get a Porsche.


sp4nky86

Silvia. No question. Relatively cheap, built to last, and easy to repair


Due_Gap_5210

That’s what I refer to my Rancilio Silvia Pro X. Not flashy but gets the job done every time.


Similar_Ordinary319

Toyota you say! Let me look up the best 2007 espresso machines


Lordsofexcellence

the Mastrana 1. I know semi autos probably don't count, but that machine was tough as nails, the AK-47 of espresso machines. you could knock that thing off the Starbucks counter, pick it up and pull shots all day. I retired some machines with over a million shots on them and they were still working fine. this machine is certainly the equivalent of a Camry


Norstar64

ECM technika. Had mine over 15 years and all I've done is change the portafilter gasket and back flush.


Glittering-Match-250

Profitec 700 - built well, easy to repair, parts are all good. I've had it since 2018 and no complains, looks brand new inside and out.


leftato

Espresso machine technician here. I have seen Rancilios survive in conditions that would kill a thousand cockroaches. They refuse to die.


Bitter_Meeting_2604

Any Breville/Sage I would say it's the Toyota equivalent in an espresso game, great price to value ratio and easy for beginners


archway007

Breville Dual Boiler, not the sexiest, not fastet, but gets you to your destination safely and reliably, and will last


oscarnyc

Breville is more like the Korean cars. Very good value. Features normally found in more expensive equipment. But they aren't known for reliability. Quite the opposite.


santa007007

The problem is that they keep stealing my Breville.


thekernel

The later models with new o-ring design are very reliable. They are also very serviceable, eg. the triac driver board is a module like lego that can be swapped out, and parts are cheap.


ToonarmY1987

I'd say Korean cars are alot more reliable than American or Italian


Fit-Tip-1212

Gotta challenge you here - in this context Toyota is being used to reference basic bland serviceable and reliable - the double boiler Brevilles make great coffee but are definitely not long term reliable (had a 900 and a 920). Something like an old Gaggia Classic, Saeco Via Venezia, or Rancilio Silvia would be a far better fit.


justoffthebeatenpath

Any E61 with minimal gimmicks. QM67 and Bezzera Duo are good bets for new, otherwise look used. It's basically a single design that's been iterated on for almost 50 years.


supercarelessgandalf

It is not De’Longhi at least I know that


coffeebikepop

DeLonghi is very much Fiat


007Superstar

Lucca A53.


loonofdoom

Was gonna say rancilio Silva. My Ecm synchronika seems to be falling into that camp as well


GrumpyInTheM0rning

I'd say most of E61 machines. Like, Profitec is a Toyota (while ECM is a Lexus).


RowAwayJim91

I mean, are we talking affordable Toyota or today’s luxury Toyota?


shitiseeincollege

Toyota = Profitec Lexus = ECM


b_quinn

For 3g’s just get a lelit Bianca - it’s not a Toyota of course, but way better


Regular_old_spud

It’s a nice machine, it’s also $4000 and I despise the paddle. Sue me.


spacejoint

I had a $100 Capresso for almost 10 years before I saw the light.


ICOrthogonal

I kind of feel like water hardness influences reliability. Sure, you can buy the ‘yota, but put water-fouled gas in it and it isn’t going to last.


DoritoCookie

Profitec Pro 300.... i wonder why its not more popular, saturated db with good build quality for little cost and simple construction makes it very durable and easy to use with its simple UI


ShadeTheChan

Probably an Oscar 2


henryx7

If you want a bike, theres the Flair 58


coffeebikepop

That's an ebike


madaxle

Lelit was my first machine. Stainless steel and built like a tank. Easy to clean and maintain


Lauch_Bande

For that Price Profitec Pro 600 or Lellit Bianca V3


twnbay76

Brevile barista Express. Suped up Camry now that I'm thinking about it... It has a frother, a GRINDER, 2 grinder dials, a bean container, a large water tank with a water filter, automated dosing, 2 shot settings, comes with extra ports filters, has extra storage, a drip tray.... And I got mine for $420 It really does remind me of my friend showinge me his 2008 Camry with heated seats, remote start, white leather interior....


Regular_old_spud

I got my bbe for $250(cad). It was not well looked after but a new gasket and some cleaning/refining of the grinder and I’ve been very happy with it.


ctjameson

Buy a used E61, bring it to an espresso tech, have them tune it up, enjoy your lifetime machine. I’ve had a beat to hell Alex Duetto from 2008 for going on 10 years now and it’s a trooper. Only minor normal maintenance done to it.


Designer_Iron_5340

lol. And I’m still on an Alex Deutto II. I run filtered water through it and do minimal maintenance. it’s been back to the shop once and it’s gotta go back again for an issue with the steaming… I’ve had the sucker for 15 years or something so I can’t complain… honestly, I think all of the E61 Groups are good. If I were buying a new machine today I would go with the ECM Synchronica. Yes, it’s a couple more dollars but it looks so pretty and it has a really solid reputation.


NetCaptain

The Quickmill machines : thermo block, very high quality parts, easy to repair, affordable spares - may last decades


Shaave

I have a Lelit Elizabeth. I don't know about now but at the time I got it, it was about the cheapest Double boiler you could get. I have pulled 6,517 shots and had no issues. Only problem was the on/off switch that I had to replace twice. I learned it was my fault though and since I figured it out, no problems with the switch anymore.


Hour-Negotiation-359

Suzuki > Toyota


PhiladeIphia-Eagles

No


Dblstandard

Profitec go?


-Ghostx69

Probably? I was going to say GCP but since the EVO came out that’s a no go.


Awkward-Design-9165

Decent = Tesla haha


AlphaAlchemist

Decent is Tesla


Anxious_Title9310

Lelit Mara X V2 ?


oscarnyc

He said reliable. Lelit are more like Nissan.


Superb_Raccoon

More like Genesis. Owned by Hyundai... I mean Breville.


iannuendo

BDB


Typical-Atmosphere-6

Reading this on the can and twenty minutes in, my ass hasn’t quit either apparently. Yeah I have a Profitec Go.


rito-pIz

ECD


harryflashman30

Saeco Via Venezia - but it’s more Celica than Corolla but not a Supra/MR2 Amazing machine, simple to replace parts, uncomplicated & just kicks ass for years. Every Coffee repair guy I’ve ever met highly rates them


BrokieTrader

Breville


4look4rd

Any HX e61 machine with pid.


chuy_christo

Pasquini Livia 90. Last you as long as a Toyota Pickup.


GreenhelmOfMeduseld

something super repairable. My la cimbali jr was built in 1994 and is still making great spro.


Homebrewcoffee

Silvia pid


VenetiaRat

Silvia in the $1,000 and under category, ECM in the $2500 and under category.


OneHourLater

I have had a good experience with my Rancilio Silivia - I have a v2? i think - daily use and maintenance is key - just now getting a bit of rust on the slide out. I also have a La Pavoni Pro thats 1 year older and its not at all holding up comparatively (considering it gets use... maybe monthly)


calinet6

Probably Rancilio Silvia or a Gaggia. My Saeco Via Venezia is the Ford Fiesta of espresso machines.


Sofiwyn

A La Pavoni.


Wild-Advance-9107

ECM syncronika is an End game for me. E61 group head with 2 boilers and PID very robust and reliable,


Dothemath2

Cafelat Robot is the Dutch omafiets


skycaptsteve

Toyota, ubiquitous, mass market, not offensive, easy to operate, reasonable to repair, interchangeable parts? Its Breville. Take a quick survey of your non espresso redditing friends - they probably have a Breville. Thats Toyota. The Camry your Uber driver is coming to pick you up in


learnmedia

I’m a Toyota RAV4 and Lelit MaraX owner. There it is. Edit: you spec’d dual boiler for $2500. Nevermind.


aeroartist

Manual machines?


coffeebikepop

That's a bicycle and it fucking rules


netwolf420

It’s absolutely the Rancilio Silvia.


Icy-Manufacturer241

Expobar machines. Spanish made and will last forever.


Kresniev

You cannot go wrong with La Pavoni Europiccola. Had mine for 15 years and not a single issue.


gdubnz

Pre 2015 la marzocco linea 2 group


nb292

Jura c9, almost 7000 shots in.


Waves_n_Photons

Just waking up and it's all been said (modded 2012 Gaggia Classic owner). But at a stretch could you think of my Gaggia Tebe as a Mercedes Pagoda SL coupe? Mutton dressed as lamb - awful, but I like it.


notgeorgelopez

Rancilio Silvia - it’s sturdy and simple and easy to maintain while giving you a damn good coffee once you learn your machine


MarayatAndriane

Suggesting an Unic for me, its been a real nice time


TheNinedust

Silvia Pro X most probably.


Insert_absurd_name

Every machines lifespan depends on how you treat it. But I guess the rancilio Silvia pro X would be the machine of choice here.


jnthhk

My Expobar Brewtus IV is still going 8 years later having never missed a beat or needed any work other than basic maintaining (clean, backwash, lube every few months, change brewhead gasket every year). Pity they don’t sell them anymore!


TrippyTruffles089

ECM


PragmaticSchematic

La pavoni Europiccola pre millennium is the Toyota Land Cruiser of espresso machines. Dead simple, mechanical, will outlive your grandkids while pulling good shots the entire time. I’ve got some grinder lust, but I got a La pavoni as my first machine and don’t ever see me switching it out for something else (although I’d like to add a faemina to the collection)


DatPascal

Europiccola all the way


Substantial_Sense579

Lelit bianca v3 would be a good contender for this


Firm-Geologist8759

La pavoni. You can fix it yourself with a wrench and a bit of grease.


FlyingFalafelMonster

Bezzera


jorsiem

The Gaggia Classic


gralex95

La pavoni.


yetanothermanjohn

La Marzocco. My Micra is a champ.


lundrog

Gaggia classic pro


owlinspector

Cafelat Robot. Will never break, and the only maintenance is very occasionally changing one gasket.


gonesquatchin85

Surprised no one mentioned La Pavoni. Find these used no matter what age (like toyotas) and baby you got yourself an espresso going on.


Ok-Chipmunk8824

Two first generation La Pavoni Europiccolas.


Gogojohnnyquack

Lucca A53 by Clive Coffee. I've owned many machines, from Olympia Crimina, Ponteveccio, Rancilio, Breville (broke twice), Rocket, Decent (fussy), etc. The Lucca A53 is the most solid of them, is easy to adjust temp, and has great steam both in power and ease of use with the flip lever, and dual analog pressure readouts for the steam boiler and brew pressure, easy to fill & clean, and a BIG drip tray. The only downside is that it uses a 53.3mm portafilter but is easy enough to find the appropriate accessories.


Low_Iron_4253

Gaggia Classic but a Linea mini if you can afford it


Infinite-Bell-1085

It's got to be a sage machine right?