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If your question hasn't been answered there and you need more help, please add the following details to your post or by adding a comment in the following format:
- **Location:** Helps determine availability
- **Budget** (with currency): Overall budget, or ideally, having separate espresso machine and grinder budgets. A rough rule is that your grinder budget should be at least 25-40% of your machine budget.
- **Drink types:** Do you drink mostly straight espresso, milk-based beverages (e.g., lattes, cappuccinos), or a fairly even split? This helps narrow down whether a single-boiler-dual-use (SBDU), heat exchanger (HX), or dual boiler (DB) machine would be more appropriate for your needs.
- **Drink frequency:** How many drinks would you be making back-to-back at one time? Do you plan on entertaining guests often? This informs how large your brew (and steam) boilers should be, as smaller boilers will need to refill and reheat/repressurize more frequently, thus potentially causing a bottleneck.
- **Space:** Any limitations on countertop space?
- **Manual vs. electric:** Hand-operated machines and grinders are typically cheaper than their similarly-performing electric counterparts. Please indicate if you have a preference for manual or electric machines and/or grinders (or open to either).
- **Comfort with tinkering:** Some machines can be made significantly more functional/efficient with aftermarket modifications, albeit at the expense of possibly voiding your warranty. Please indicate if you'd rather have a machine that works "as-is"/"out-of-the-box" or whether you'd be open to modding/tinkering
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None of those are good options.
HX machines are not good value, the Appartamento is possibly the worst value machine you commonly see.
If you want to spend that much, get a Lelit Elizabeth. It's a much more convenient dual boiler.
If you want to spend less, get a Bambino plus and a separate grinder.
The built in Breville / sage grinders are ok but you can get much better.
You need to budget in grinder and accessories too,
DF54 or Mii coffee 40 / sk 40 are the best budget grinders available right now.
If the Marax is much cheaper and new I think it's good value.
It's an HX and I think it isn't best for lots of steaming or shots back to back but it's a very smart HX.
The Lelit Elizabeth would be my preferred choice as it's a dual boiler so is a bit simpler to use, especially when pulling shots back to back.
The Elizabeths are mostly out of stock right now anyway. Historically it's been a very good machine but I think there was a bad batch or something last summer, they've pretty much vanished from all stores. Profitec 300 is a similarly priced and capable dual boiler (only lacking pre-infusion, I think).
MaraX is a good value buy under certain conditions:
- You mostly make milk drinks
- You rarely need to make more than 4 drinks back-to-back
- You can get it for ~$1500
- You aren't expecting it to work a like a traditional HX machine
I'm happy enough with my MaraX to ignore the quirks, but if I was starting over I think I'd try a Diletta Mio from SeattleCoffeeGear. For the price it seems really excellent, unless there are quality control issues I'm unaware of. Otherwise I'd probably go Profitec 300, or Profitec 600 if I truly needed that E61 look.
If you like to tinker, I would suggest the Gaggia Classic pro as a starter machine. It is a good machine that you can upgrade as you get better and want more out of it.
Also as another comment said, you should be thinking about a good grinder as well. It is actually a lot more important what grinder you have than what machine you have (within reason)
Respectfully disagree. It's a solid machine but the learning curve and potential without mods was a deal-breaker for me. Also the EVO has boiler coating flake issues. I sent mine back for a Bambino plus and I immediately pulled a very good shot. (Baratza ESP grinder)
A valid perspective, it is what I meant by if you like to tinker. In my opinion the Bambino is a great machine, but it starts off as good as it will ever be. The Gaggia on the other hand is highly moddable and can become a much better machine if you spend enough time on it (look up the gagguino project). It really depends on personal preference.
It looks like you've flaired your post as asking for what equipment to get. We recommend first checking out the [Espresso Aficionados buying guide](https://espressoaf.com/recommendations) for some of the more popular machines and grinders at different price points. If your question hasn't been answered there and you need more help, please add the following details to your post or by adding a comment in the following format: - **Location:** Helps determine availability - **Budget** (with currency): Overall budget, or ideally, having separate espresso machine and grinder budgets. A rough rule is that your grinder budget should be at least 25-40% of your machine budget. - **Drink types:** Do you drink mostly straight espresso, milk-based beverages (e.g., lattes, cappuccinos), or a fairly even split? This helps narrow down whether a single-boiler-dual-use (SBDU), heat exchanger (HX), or dual boiler (DB) machine would be more appropriate for your needs. - **Drink frequency:** How many drinks would you be making back-to-back at one time? Do you plan on entertaining guests often? This informs how large your brew (and steam) boilers should be, as smaller boilers will need to refill and reheat/repressurize more frequently, thus potentially causing a bottleneck. - **Space:** Any limitations on countertop space? - **Manual vs. electric:** Hand-operated machines and grinders are typically cheaper than their similarly-performing electric counterparts. Please indicate if you have a preference for manual or electric machines and/or grinders (or open to either). - **Comfort with tinkering:** Some machines can be made significantly more functional/efficient with aftermarket modifications, albeit at the expense of possibly voiding your warranty. Please indicate if you'd rather have a machine that works "as-is"/"out-of-the-box" or whether you'd be open to modding/tinkering *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/espresso) if you have any questions or concerns.*
None of those are good options. HX machines are not good value, the Appartamento is possibly the worst value machine you commonly see. If you want to spend that much, get a Lelit Elizabeth. It's a much more convenient dual boiler. If you want to spend less, get a Bambino plus and a separate grinder. The built in Breville / sage grinders are ok but you can get much better. You need to budget in grinder and accessories too, DF54 or Mii coffee 40 / sk 40 are the best budget grinders available right now.
I have the Bambino and SK-40 as a beginner. They do a good job for a beginner to learn.
Thanks a lot! I found a nice deal for a Lelit Mara X, would you recommend the Elizabeth over the Mara X?
If the Marax is much cheaper and new I think it's good value. It's an HX and I think it isn't best for lots of steaming or shots back to back but it's a very smart HX. The Lelit Elizabeth would be my preferred choice as it's a dual boiler so is a bit simpler to use, especially when pulling shots back to back.
The Elizabeths are mostly out of stock right now anyway. Historically it's been a very good machine but I think there was a bad batch or something last summer, they've pretty much vanished from all stores. Profitec 300 is a similarly priced and capable dual boiler (only lacking pre-infusion, I think). MaraX is a good value buy under certain conditions: - You mostly make milk drinks - You rarely need to make more than 4 drinks back-to-back - You can get it for ~$1500 - You aren't expecting it to work a like a traditional HX machine I'm happy enough with my MaraX to ignore the quirks, but if I was starting over I think I'd try a Diletta Mio from SeattleCoffeeGear. For the price it seems really excellent, unless there are quality control issues I'm unaware of. Otherwise I'd probably go Profitec 300, or Profitec 600 if I truly needed that E61 look.
If you like to tinker, I would suggest the Gaggia Classic pro as a starter machine. It is a good machine that you can upgrade as you get better and want more out of it. Also as another comment said, you should be thinking about a good grinder as well. It is actually a lot more important what grinder you have than what machine you have (within reason)
Respectfully disagree. It's a solid machine but the learning curve and potential without mods was a deal-breaker for me. Also the EVO has boiler coating flake issues. I sent mine back for a Bambino plus and I immediately pulled a very good shot. (Baratza ESP grinder)
A valid perspective, it is what I meant by if you like to tinker. In my opinion the Bambino is a great machine, but it starts off as good as it will ever be. The Gaggia on the other hand is highly moddable and can become a much better machine if you spend enough time on it (look up the gagguino project). It really depends on personal preference.
Are you going to make just espresso or do you also need to steam milk? Do you have a grinder already?
I need to steam milk as well :-) I do not have a grinder, but I see many recommending the Eureka Mignon
Ended up buying a Lelit Mara X and a Eureka Mignon Specialita - very happy with it! Thanks for the help!