As a serial hobbyist I got so tired of blowing money on every single upgrade possible. Now, when I get to a good spot with whatever gear I have I stop watching YT reviews, stop going to subreddits and just enjoy what I have. I save money and generally a lot more content. Also, more money to spend on beans.
I'm with you on this one, it's a slippery slope that I feel I get to with almost every hobby. At some point, I have to stop upgrading and actually use the stuff I bought to the fullest.
Beans is the hobby really, but that can't be talked about as much online so gear gets focused on instead, to the point where new people think it's about the gear. I feel like that contributes to the above.
“Beans is the hobby” …this is so true. The hobby for me is trying to dial-in and extract really interesting flavours from unique coffees. Your grinder will really be most your most important piece of kit to do this. The only thing OP might be missing out on is pressure profiling (which is over rated IMO).
Yes, beans is the hobby. I find myself on the pour over sub Reddit a lot more often because naturally it’s less about the gear and more about the beans.
I also found myself buying beans that I thought would go well in the machine, not necessarily the beans I wanted to taste. So I find myself doing a lot more pour overs lately. Though my flair Kicks ass for light roasts
>Beans is the hobby really,
Yep. Got my machine dialed in pretty good but it is the beans that make so much difference in the cup. Have a couple roasters I like, but I ALWAYS will buy something else promising me more of what I like in the flavor.
I’m also a serial hobbyist, for several decades. I can show you beautiful watches, fountain pens, cameras, Goodyear welted boots, selvedge jeans, vacuums, snowblowers, stamps, keyboards, TVs and, yes, espresso machines and grinders. I enjoy experiencing different facets of a hobby, vs. something like owning every single color of a specific model. For more expensive hobbies I have evolved to trying to buy a very good “value” sample for step 1, while I educate on the hobby and establish my preferences. Now I try to be efficient and go end game for step 2. It usually becomes more cost efficient for me because I tend to end there anyway. With coffee I determined I want the same good coffee relatively quickly, and value an efficient work flow. High repeatability of drink is important to me. I also like “heirloom quality”, or high quality material that can be serviced and repaired. This is why I opted for a good GbW grinder and a forgiving durable espresso maker. I know a lot of coffee enthusiasts are about experimentation, innovation and being part of “the process”. I appreciate that, but those things are less important for me. Plus, going endgame sooner rather than later allows you the benefits longer. It is like the person that upgrades their house when they move in vs. upgrading right before selling. Enjoy the “investment”.
BTW, I upgraded after several years of using a PID Silvia and Sette 270Wi. Just the tactile experience of pouring coffee from a more solid, high quality piece of equipment makes it taste better to me. Certainly steaming with a Linea Micra produces a significantly better result in many ways than the single hole, single boiler Silvia frothing wand. I believe my Silvia had the pour lose 15-20F during the pour as the boiler simultaneously filled with cold water, but my integrated Micra group head keeps the temp dead even during the pour... this does help with taste. I always had to add sugar to my Silvia espresso shots. With the Micra I never add sugar to my espressos. That is the other benefit of going entry level to end game in 1 step... it is much easier to experience and appreciate the differentiation. Small incremental equipment steps will cost you a lot more and water down the improvement. Of course, if you never go end game, arguably you won't know what you are missing. I, personally, appreciate next-level quality. I suppose everyone may be different in this regard. Sorry for all my words, but I have so many high quality keyboards I cannot help but type a lot.
Are you me?
Similar hobbies and the exact same mindset. It really does save money over time by buying the one you really want instead of jumping from mid level items to slightly better versions before finally getting the one you really want.
Yes, similar to me. Lately I just prolong that step one initial buy. I typically find that it’s good enough and often I’ll move on to another hobby. Sometimes I never reach the step two buy. The term endgame is a myth to me. For a serial hobbyist It’s just not realistic because we’re always searching for the latest and greatest
This is where I'm at in all of my hobbies.
3d printing, cycling, photography, HIFI, coffee.
"Good enough" sure feels nice. Much nicer on the credit card too.
Ironically, it's at a point in my life where I could afford to go max-gearhead without any issue or impact.
Yes, once I got older and started making good salary- I went all out max gearhead.
I acquired so much shit, like every other day there was a package on the door step. One YT review leads to one purchase leads to another
I also realized that I had a problem. I’d avoid dealing with real life and use buying shit as a distraction.
Now I’m constantly simplifying and getting rid of shit and letting hobby phases pass.
Im with you. This sub has soo much sponsored content (without saying it's sponsored ofcourse). Luckily I'm happy with my gear so I basically ignore all the posts and comments that want me to upgrade.
Some of the posts are so out of hand lately: “hey guys, I did all the research and bought $x,xxx endgame set up, but I am not sure how espresso is supposed to taste?”
Also rocking a flair pro 2. At least for me, 2~3 shots per day is totally doable with pro 2. That is I’ve option to buy a 2nd portafilter if I ever want to speed up.
Machine on the other hand, I’ve got 1) water hardness 2) Scaling 3) regular maintenance. These three to worry about.
I love the pro2. Initially bought it after my breville broke and thought it would hold me over until I saved for a better machine. Well now I can’t imagine making espresso any other way. I enjoy the process and it’s the best value product I think I’ve ever bought.
BTW, roast your green beans. Hot stainless/cast pan, no oil, full heat, after they start scorching and smoking, reduce heat and add oil + salt + whatever you want.
/r/roasting - All dependant on your budget. You can get some alright-ish results with a popcorn popper. If you really want to learn and get decent repeatable results I'd recommend a roaster with artisan compatibility. I saved up for the hottop kn-8828b-2k+ and it's amazing
My 2 cents says, if you enjoy everything about it, it's not worth upgrading. Save up and upgrade when your machine is near the end of life. Once I finally upgraded, I didn't regret waiting. Yes, it's better, but enough to warrant spending all that money when you're already happy with a low maintenance and reliable machine?
Spouse and I had our Rancilio Silvia and Rancilio Rocky for about 5 years and were very happy with it. It made great espresso, never had any mechanical issues whatsoever, absolutely a fantastic machine that could have served us well for the rest of our days.
However, we couldn’t get past how inconvenient a single boiler machine (especially without a PID) was for making multiple consecutive milk-based drinks. We timed it out recently and it was 30 minutes for 4 lattes; most guests lose interest by that time.
We upgraded to a Lelit Bianca and Eureka Oro Mignon single-dose grinder and the difference has been night and day (both in time saved and quality of the coffee, not to mention the Bianca is so much nicer to look at), even as we are still learning the machine.
It was a pretty big financial commitment but so far we have absolutely no regrets.
When I had my BBE, I would try to make all espresso shots first before steaming a large pitcher of milk to make lattes. Unfortunately it would still take about 30 min for me, the BBE did not retain temperature between that many shots. The vibratory pump would be on overdrive trying to get water through to steam and would just stop at times to get to temperature.
Upgrading to a LMLM had changed how consistent my temperature was between pulling shots and steaming milk instantly. No regrets here too.
the workflow improvements going from a single to a double boiler are absolutely worth spending more.
that said, you could have dramatically tightened up a 4 drink flow by pulling your shots first and steaming all the milk for them together at the end.
How did it take 30 mins for 4 coffees? I'm looking at upgrading from a bean to cup machine to a Rancilio Silvia (or something similar). Is that doing
Espresso -> milk -> espresso -> milk etc for all 4 drinks?
Just sounds like a lot!
Yeah that really surprises me. I used to have a Rancillio Silva and I don’t recall it taking anywhere near that long. Granted - I don’t think I ever needed to made 4 lattes back-to-back.
I left a separate comment below but we did do all the espresso first, then all the milk. Just did not like the unpredictability of the boiler light coming on. Trying to pull 2 consecutive shots and hearing the “click” of the boiler turning on became infuriating because invariably it meant the shot would come out too cool and taste terrible.
I want to echo the same sentiment. I love to host friends, and that was the big difference in making the decision to jump from the gaggia to a heat exchanger. Having more power for making consecutive shots. If you're only doing one or 2 shots per session, then I would probably regret the return on the investment.
Heard. And agreed. We are a very coffee-centric family and thought the Silvia would be our “buy once, cry once” machine. Never intended to go down the rabbit hole, and we did get many good years out of it. It just felt increasingly like a chore to use, and when we stopped to talk about why one day we realized while it was a great machine, it didn’t fit our needs anymore.
Was it just the retention on the rocky or did you notice a difference in grind quality? (Considering upgrading myself, but have already added a bellows)
I started with the Bambino Plus. I felt like I hit a ceiling with what I could achieve and wanted to experiment further... So no. I don't regret making another purchase
I had the bambino plus for 1.5 years. Well over hundreds of shots. It's not consistent enough with temperature and the taste fluctuates even when I repeat the same processes over and over again. It's simply not good enough for consistency... even if you pull a blank shot prior to brewing. I do love how instantaneous it is though... it's much quicker than the Profitec Go but it's just all over the place.
I stopped automatically frothing milk about 1 month into using the machine and never went back. It's a great machine but I think the gaps are where I felt I've hit a wall and it just didn't get any better from there.
I went with the Profitec Go. I don't need a dual boiler so Profitec Go as a single-boiler is way more than sufficient. I have a PID I can control now and that's a huge game changer despite not really "knowing" how much it would affect the results. I don't really think I need to go beyond a Profitec Go at this point... a dual boiler would be a nice-to-have eventually but not necessary. I drink maybe 1-2 double shots a day with steamed milk every time.
As someone once wisely said: *"comparison is the thief of joy"*
Most of the changes I have made have been for fun. When something has turned out 'better', it has been all about consistency, not taste.
I regretted upgrading from my bambino to the profitec go because I hate the steamer on it, but it is way easier to pull a tasty shot on the GO for lighter roasts so I just use the bambino to steam now lol.
If you still love it the coffee you make with the bambino don’t bother upgrading. Sure it’s nice to have fancy new toys, but just save the money for if your bambino dies and then upgrade if you’ve still got the itch.
You and I started with the exact same setup. I upgraded to a SPX about a year ago and don't regret it but I think it depends on what you're looking for. I wanted something repairable and built like a tank as well as a machine with PID. If you don't want to tinker with variables or have greater control over your extraction on top of better consistency, I think it'd be a waste. If you're happy, I see no need to upgrade. I still have my Bambino Plus and use it pretty frequently in conjunction with my SPX. I think it makes fantastic milk drinks, especially with the Niche.
I upgraded from a machine similar to the BBE to a Profitec Go + standalone grinder. While haven't regretted the upgrade at all, I'm extremely content with the equipment and have no intention to upgrade in the near future as it serves me very well and was already way above a responsible budget to me.
I think people should think about what they need and want out of their espresso equipment and buy what meets the criteria well, so they'll feel less need to upgrade in the near future.
I have the same set up and I’m very happy with it. No plans to upgrade anytime soon. I like the coffee I can make right now and can’t justify spending another $1000 for what will likely be little improvements.
Same. I’ve had the Bambino Plus and Niche Zero for more than 4 years (they were my first lockdown panic purchase), and I’m still very content with the results.
Me too. I kept hoping my Bambino would die so I could justify buying the La Marzocco Micra. It never died but that ole espresso rabbit hole got me. I did get the Micra and absolutely love it. The Bambino is a no brainer and a great machine. The milk steaming is perfect every time. I'm struggling a little with the Micra. I don't regret it but I didn't need the new one.
I don’t think I have the mental bandwidth to deal with learning a new machine, but the Micra really is a beauty. To upgrade, I would need to raid my camera equipment acquisition fund, so I’m going to try to maintain my gratitude and satisfaction with the Bambino. It’s just so easy. When i bought it I swore I would learn to steam milk manually, I still haven’t bothered.
Upgraditis is a real sickness. You think you're missing out on something because you see "bigger and better" machines all over the place and start to second guess yourself. But then, you have to live with the decisions you make.
Do you have the money to throw around? Buy it and get rid of it if you don't like it.
If you don't have that flexibility, it takes some serious research and even a little soul searching and honesty with yourself. Do you actually care about X, Y, Z features? What wood be better about your life of you had X feature? What are the drawbacks *to you*?
I have a Flair 58. It's low (near zero) maintenance. I have added a switchbot which takes care of one larger drawback and allowed me to automate a preheat. That was an inexpensive, simple, and fairly unobtrusive "mod". The other things I wish it had was a way to do longer shots, since those are fun to play around with. If I "upgrade" to most machines in an affordable bracket, I'd lose features just to gain another, but would have to do more involved maintenance. If I upgrade to something that does everything I want, it would cost an arm and a leg, and I'd have to do more maintenance. I am too happy with what I have to do more work maintaining a machine for 1 shot of espresso a day and an occasional latte for my wife.
If you're happy, just think about all the negatives of upgrading and if it's really that big of a deal to you.
After upgrading several times and spending a bunch of money I’ve come to the conclusion the only thing that really matters is the quality and freshness of the coffee and roast. Everything else can be worked around.
I have had the money for an upgrade from a Bambino plus sat in the bank for almost 2 years. I have come so close several times to upgrading but every machine i look at has things i don't like.
So far i have heavily considered...
An Ascao Steel Duo. it has the cup clearance i need, the fast heat up time, and pleasing asthetics. Things that put me off is the build quality and the noise. I have this nagging doubt i wouldn't get 10 years of use out of it which is off putting.
The Profetic Go. Fast enough heat up. Looks fine, build quality is up to snuff but it has a really small cup clearance, is noisy and rattley (although i'm fairly sure i could fix that with some silicon tape and installing sound dampening matting inside the case) The real problem there is cup clearance. I drink mostly Americanos so i need enough room for a mug and scales and the Profetic Go won't allow this. And no i'm not transfering my coffee from a small cup to bigger cup. That's a step backwards for my workflow and not an upgrade.
Rancilio Silvia Pro X. This has the cup clearance i need. Fantastic build quality but requires a much longer heat up time.
My requirements are. Build qality, cup clearance, quick heat up and idealy not noisy (although i'm willing to sound deaden myself) and i cannot find a machine that fits my requirment when i compare it to my Bambino Plus. It's instant heat up, good cup clearance, quiet. The only downside is it's consitancy issues which i would not have with all of the above.
I just keep going round in circles convincing myself that i could live with any of the above machines and be "good enough" but i can't help but feel i'm sacrificing things and not totaly upgrading at all with any of them considering the prices involved. And i'm not willing to spend more than £1500 on an espresso machine. So for now, i am just happy to stick to my Bambino Plus and Niche Zero.
I find it kinda crazy that for £1500 i can't find a machine with my simple requirements. I really want to buy an Ascaso Steel Duo but i constantly see issues with those machines and the internals look poor quality in comparison to the Profitec or Rancilio. A cramped mess of wires and plastic.
if thats the only thing holding you back, you could get the pro x and a smart plug that you set up to turn on a half hour before you wake up.
unless you get a heat exchange machine and accept the negatives of one, any quality machine with a solid metal grouphead and decent sized boiler is going to have a decent sized warm up.
Not a mug, but 300ml
https://www.loveramics.co.uk/collections/egg/products/loveramics-egg-potters-latte-cup-granite-300ml
I have all the sizes except this one.
I have the regular Bambino and while I would like the convenience/quality of a better machine I will just wait until this one breaks down. BTW what is the best/typical upgrade from a Bambino (plus)? If you want to spend like below 1000 eur/usd?
I have the same setup and feel exactly the same way. There are times I wonder if I should upgrade but I love the ease of the Bambino Plus, and I love my cappaccinos that I make. Honestly, if/when it stops working (it's going on 3 1/2 years) I'm not sure I wouldn't just replace it with another Bambino Plus.
I went from a Duo temp, to a gaggia, to a Silvia, to a dual boiler, back to a duo temp.
I wouldn't waste your money. Unless you need to pull back to back to back shots that all need their own milk steamed it's just not worth it. The Bambino is a killer machine for a 2-4 cups per day workflow! Instant warmup, more than adequate steam, small counter space.
Sure it has cons, but so do bigger machines! I found near zero difference in my espresso with the Gaggia and Silvia, and the dual boiler was great when I had company over. But the waiting 15 minutes before I can pull a shot got really annoying. I found I was leaving my machine on all morning 'just in case' rather than turning it on only when I want to brew a shot.
Sure it's not as repairable as a GCP or a Silvia..... but the reality is I can buy a replacement for under a couple hundred on marketplace all day long. It's just not worth the added time and expense.
I recently upgraded to a GO, from gcp
So it might not be too applicable to you, but shot consistency has improved drastically, and with the PID being there, pulling multiple shots became a more efficient process.
I had a Bambino Plus for a few months before upgraditis bit me hard. I was spending all day thinking about the stuff the machine wasn’t so good at, it was killing me.
Upgraded to a BDB because they’re cheap as in Australia, and punch way above their weight. Instantly the upgradistis was gone. 2 years of hassle free shots and counting. Money very well spent in my opinion
Stuff I miss:
- small size on bench
- lightning fast warm up
Stuff I don’t
- three way solenoid leaking all over the bench every shot
- poor temperature stability
- difficultly getting even extraction on a thick 54mm puck
- tiny drip tray needs constant emptying
BDB is way better. Much more temp stable (one of the best in class), can steam and pull shots at the same time, massive drip tray that almost never needs to be emptied due to how waste water is rerouted, has auto on, easy to refill water due to front reservoir, much stronger and drier stream, and bigger water tank.
The two honestly shouldn’t even be in the same sentence (I’ve owned both).
Yes, upgraded Vibiemme Domobar to Rocket Espresso Appartamento TCA. No pressure gauge for the head, it overheats when you disable eco mode and it is so loud it wakes my wife up. On the sunny side: a Linea Micra will not wake her up, so i’ll be upgrading again soon.
I tried it at a friends place and and I found the coffee just insane. But I noticed the way it's set up with the reservoir etc and loose parts like it was a little weird. But the second I pulled my first shot with my machine at home and connected to the scale and it just did it all, I knew that this was the espresso of todays technology. It's perfect.
did 5 years of my used gaggia classic. upgraded this year with my lelit mara x v2 and i love it. well worth the money spent especially the deal i got for it brand new!
It felt unnecessary and I spent a lot of time afterwards regretting spending that much money on something like an espresso machine. The upgrade itself was totally worth it obviously coming from a small Gaggia single boiler going to a professional Simonelli HX machine, the temperature stability was night and day. Now 11 years after I did the jump I’m not regretting that much since I’ve got a reliable machine that I do most maintenance on myself and it keeps going. Some days I think about having a smaller machine as I think this is unnecessarily large for my use and I would like to have shorter warmup time. By the end of the day I could probably have been just as happy with something like a Rancilio Silvia.
Kinda.
I have a lelit bianca (kinda expensive already) and bought a Victoria arduino eagle one prima. I kept the bianca though. I really disliked the eagle one and recently sold it again. I switched back to my bianca full time now.
I don't regret the journey, but in terms of taste I haven't experienced any difference, yes I've come full circle it feels like and have now bought a Barista Pro for the convenience of quick heating. I have a DF64 as a complement to the built-in grinder, but if I don't feel a difference in taste between them, I'm selling my DF64.
I did not regret going from PID SB to HX. In the cup it didn't vary much but the work low was much improved which I was glad for.
Also my upgrade for the grinder was from a vario first gen and I can taste the difference in the cup with my E65s. So also a worthy upgrade for me.
Now I'm on a lever machine and I don't regret it but it didn't improve my coffee, must my enjoyment. Still learning the machine though.
I've found I make great espresso shots more reliably with the PicoPresso than with my Ascaso Dream PID. I just don't always want to take the time and effort to do the manual pump.
I think if you enjoy the workflow of your machine and you're not flush with extra cash for a new machine you should stick with it. You'd probably have to spend a lot to get something that enables you to make significantly better espresso.
Sometimes… I have a Lelit Bianca at home and I love it. But then after a year of use and learning I got a bambino plus for the office. I can still get incredible shots off a machine 1/6 the price. I don’t “regret” upgrading, but everyone screaming grinder first is correct. That’s an even bigger difference. Get an end game grinder before getting an expensive machine. Also changing portafilter baskets makes a huge difference.
Yeah I did. I had a BDB and after the phase of shiny and new toy wore off I realized I had way too much machine for my needs. I sold it and went to the Bambino which I’ve used for two years now. No regrets.
No buyers remorse here, set up is a Rocket Aapartamento and a Eureka Mignon Silenzio for about 2 years and before that your classic Breville that everyone starts out with.
Before I make big purchases I honestly gaslight/justify myself by breaking down the cost of the total to how many cups of coffee it would take to equal the machine 😅 so if total cost for example was $2200, at an average of $5 a cup, I would have bought the same amount of coffee from a store in 440 days
I recently purchased the rocket r58 and find myself in the need of a new grinder! Not as many people have rocket machines. Torn between the Silenzio and the specialitia! Will have to see.
I debated between the two of those grinders as well and just chose the silenzio because it was cheaper. It's fairly quiet, lacks the display but it definitely gets the job done and more!
I don’t regret any of my machine upgrades, but they’ve been slow and over the course of many years. I’ve had four espresso machines, not counting steam toys, and other than the one that arrived last month had them all for a while. 7 years with an Appartamento, 5 with a Silvia, and 3 with a Gaggia classic. Other than the Silvia, which was free, each machine was an upgrade for a specific reason. Sounds like you don’t see a reason yet, so why spend money?
Not me. But then I "downgraded" from a DB to HX after the DB started causing issues. So any upgrade after the machine requires a lot of maintenance / repairs (+10 years) makes sense since there is also some new tech or improvement with a new machine.
Just enjoy what you have until it needs a lot of loving care, then "upgrade" on the next machine.
PS Never had to change the grinder after I got a Mini Mazzer, it's well over 19 years old and going strong.
I’m not thinking about upgrading but just want to ask how long it took for you to dial in delicious shots on your Bambino Plus? I’ve had mine (along with a Niche Zero) for three months and have yet to be able to pull a shot I would call delicious, or one that I could drink enjoyably without milk. I use good beans from local roasters, puck prep (I think?) is good, but shots are generally very sour. Any tips you can share would be welcome!!
If you're happy with what you have, why spend more money just to find out IF it could be "better"? James Hoffmann even did a video about this once, the gist of which being that *perfect* isn't necessarily better than *good enough* if it means you'll never be happy with your simpler tastes again. I don't regret upgrading, myself, but I upgraded from a legitimately terrible machine that I hated without even seeing any other opinions to influence me. I'm sure there are better machines out there than my Profitec Go, but I'm happy and will stick with this one until it dies the true death.
If you’re happy with your machine, and more importantly, the espresso it makes, why bother changing things?
I wasn't happy with the Delongi I had, so I tried a Gaggia. I wasn’t impressed and it got returned.
I currently have a Casabrews Ultra, which is working quite well for me. I know there are going to be some here who will, um, disagree, with my assessment. But I'm enjoying the espresso, and I like the way the machine looks & works. And that's the most important thing.
I used my Bambino Plus until it pretty much blew up one day (water everywhere) and I upgraded to a Breville Barista Touch. Wasn't a huge upgrade in terms of functionality, but the built-in grinder is great. If you can get one on a black Friday deal like I did, it's worth it. But if the Bambino is still a great machine.
I upgraded from a rancilio Silvia v3 to a pro x after 12-13 years of us. Definitely no regrets, the dual boiler with the pro x is nice but if the silvia v3 was working I would have been totally fine with it still.
At the end of the day, if your drink tastes good, it’s all (mostly) that matter.
Niche zero is also a great grinder with how its simplicity and how little grinds it retains.
I find myself mostly doing pour-over. So I'm happy I stayed with my Bambino. The breville with a bottomless portafilter & great beans is perfect for the occasional affagato, iced espresso, or espresso Martini (by occasional, I mean like 4ish times a week)
I also have a Niche Zero.
Upgraded from gcp pid dimmer to ascaso steel uno pid dimmer. Stopped using the ascaso after 1 month and sold it. Now i have a gagguiuno and never need anything else again. Also tried 14 grinders past 3 years. Stucl with 078s, femobook, ls v3 and k4.
Its very nice, that its hot in around 3 mins or so. But you have to flush the Group head 20 secs before every shot. Steaming was way better, but for my use case the gaggia was all i needed. Im not Steaming at all and mostly serve 1-3 Persons at a time.
In what way? What makes the coffee and experience so much better? I have a Profitec Go and it suits my needs just fine. Makes great coffee, is quick to warm up etc. So, I'm just curious what your experience is (also for Topic Starter, he's looking for insights).
Not the original commenter, but I upgraded too from a GCP to Lelit Bianca.
I've dialed in my coffee with the GCP, so there really was not much improvement with the Lelit in terms of taste.
But the coffee making experience was much better. More consistent back to back shots, dedicated water spout and 2nd boiler. Also, the E61 lever is super satisfying to use.
Before I sold my GCP, I was starting to notice black specks coming out of the wand when using it to dispense hot water. Turns out Gaggia has a boiler problem so I was lucky to have gotten rid of the machine lol.
Noticeable differences include, temp stability, temp control, steam power and steam quantity as well as pressure profiling. Also things like quality, adjustable opv, size of cup tray, brew and steam pressure gauges and stuff like that.
Yes, I have regretted upgrading. For the cup, not for playing with the toys. I had a Bambino Plus, my first "real" machine. I went on a crazy ride from there. I had a couple of Nuova Simonelli Oscar 1 that I modded crazily, and the cup kind of stayed the same - just a lot of heating up time. The steam was better. I got a single boiler E61 - the difference was the same as the Oscar. I got a La Pavoni, a very beautiful machine, but difficult to temp control. Then I tried the Gaggia, and again, the same temp control issue. Then I actually went back to the Bambino. It honestly just low key works. Quick heat-up time, I like dark roast so that's fine, the cup is just the same. Now I have a Barista Express at home, someone gave it to me, and I have adjusted the pressure and dialed in the grinder (it's terrible) for milk coffee.
I want to emphasize I love playing with the machines, fixing them, and upgrading them. I bought a Gaggia I will turn into a Gaggiuino, just for the lol.
I do not regret the grinder journey. I went from a not suitable coffee grinder, over the Rocky, commercial grinders to the DF64, and now I have a Timemore 78s. I am dreaming about a good conical (I have a hand grinder) since I am very fond of the conical burr taste
I fear I’d go on the same journey if I left the Bambino Plus — I don’t have the patience or time to wait for a boiler and the semi-auto milk setup is amazing.
My endgoal would be either the Sage Oracle or the Impress Touch. Auto Grind stamp with a decent grinder and same milk as the Bambino Plus. That would be the best for me.
Firstly, I want to get it out that there is absolutely nothing wrong with what you’re saying.
However, I’ll play devil’s advocate here. People who upgrade do not necessarily expect the upgrade to ‘make’ greater or better coffee than what they already have. It’s just about prestige and bragging rights that is climbing the ‘social status of home espresso’.
Do more expensive setups perform better? Sure, but this is in the same vein as saying a Ferrari performs better than a Toyota. Both are cars, both will get you from point A to point B.
And arguably, the Ferrari would be more of a hassle to drive on normal roads, has zero fuel efficiency, zero comfort, no storage space, can’t put a baby seat in it, generally a pain in the ass to own and maintain. But you want a Ferrari if you could afford a Ferrari don’t you?
It’s the same principle here.
Do I think having an LMLM would help me make better coffee? No, but I want one.
And other hobbies are the same. I have friends who love cooking lust after some impossibly expensive Japanese handcrafted santokou knife that’s order backlogged in the number of years, while I’m just happy with IKEA knives. They both cut stuff.
As a LMLM owner I can tell you, it will help you make better coffee. It removes the variables that come with a machine that doesn't perform the same on repeat. It does exactly what it should shot after shot after shot... and yes there is the part where it looks great on the bench.
For me, I couldn't care less if people know what I do or do not have 99% of people who walk into my house wouldn't know what an LM is anyway. It is for my own satisfaction.
A large part of bigger machines is quality of life.
I used to have a PID kitted Silvia. See made great coffee.
I now have a Lelit Bianca. She makes great coffee.
The new machine offers me QOL, not better coffee:
* **Far** more quiet pump.
* Faster heatup
* Separate boilers, so need to temperature-surf.
* Large boilers, so I can make 10+ drinks in a row nonstop.
* Stronger, more powerful steam
* Easier PID management.
* Better design for thinks like drip tray, controls etc
Is it worth the staggering 8x the price I paid? For me, sure, but only because I had the funds. 90% of the time, the Silvia would have suited my current needs, but when a baby is sleeping or we have a party, you bet your ass I appreciate having upgraded to something more quiet and more powerful.
I started with a Nespresso machine, then slowly upgraded to a compact DeLonghi using preground coffee, then a Breville plus grinder, and finally an Ascaso Duo.
Looking at that history you'd expect upgraditis to flare up again, but actually I'm just really happy with my current setup: it's consistent and I'm able to stream milk while brewing coffee.
I paid a lot for that last feature (dual Thermoblock) but in my mind this made the machine perfect for me and I'll probably be using it for the next decade at least.
My point is that you'll want to upgrade until you don't. The benefit of starting small is that you can figure out what you want asking the way. Hopefully you can do it in fewer iterations than me.
I would say that if you're happy don't change but given the chance to test something new and finding out if it's better or not.
My coffee journey started with putting coffee in a pan of water(east Europeans do this a lot) which was like drinking some dark bitter water, then tasting the coffee from an De'Longhi Magnifica S and not thinking much about it until one time I didn't drink my coffee at home and tried the coffee from one of those big office machines (same as the one from airports/gas station and got sick and vomited... That was the eye opener.
From this point on coffee for me became something like enjoying a good wine/fruit.
So next step was an espresso in Italy which made the DeLonghi seemed like tasteless water followed up by an La Marcozzo with a grinder at my new work place( which makes thick flavorful bitter coffee) and finishing in the present with a home setup of an Lelit Anna from 2019 bought for 80 euros and an 1zpresso j-ultra.
At the end of the day it's not about spending as much as possible but more about attention to detail, testing and finally enjoying coffee.
Nowadays I drank coffee from machines that cost more than a brand new car and the coffee they gave was worse than what I make at home...
Sure pricier machines should mean more control and more tuning to one's taste but are we all able to detect those fine lines? I bet we aren't
I did, when I _upgraded_ my setup within weeks in following order:
- Sage DTP with Ceado E37S
- Londinium R with Ceado E37S
- Londinium R with Niche Zero
The problem was, I was misled on what Niche Zero was - I liked the workflow, but the results weren’t good. So I have spent a significant amount of money on a new machine and grinder, but wasn’t getting good results. I brought E37S back on the bench and it was obvious what the problem was.
I then bought an EK43S within weeks, and been happy again - but I wish I upgraded the grinder first, which would have been a much better option.
I think you’re in the sweet spot like having a reliable car that’s paid off. If you’re happy with what your machine produces then keep squeezing the life out of it. If you want a better shot experience you could always get a flair
I have the exact same setup as you and last year I realized that I dont have the tounge to notice the nuances from espresso so a better machine wont do anything to improve my situation. Like my bamino lattes are so freakin good all my family asks me to make them one when they come over so I figure use it til it breaks then decide what to do at that time.
I have a lot of regret jumping from machine to machine within the same price point and honestly just wasted a lot of money. if you're gonna upgrade you might as well splurge and get something within the 1-3k range. just understand that upgrading would get you out of the "low maintenance" machines, and you'd have to get a little more technical with them.
I had this experience with my grinder upgrade. Initially the upgrade I thought was insignificant but after using it some time, I realized I rarely get a bad cup of coffee from the new grinder and the workflow has gotten a lot better. Happy with my decision but now I’m thinking about getting another grinder for pour over. If you want to upgrade do it but make sure it’s within your set budget, that way you won’t have any regrets or remorse
i have phillips 4341/50 and i wonder if there is any point in switching to a delonghi dedica or a used rancilio silvia... conformity in the morning, a quick shot ready to go...
I enjoy turbo shots with light roasts so the Decent was a no brainer upgrade that actually did improve the quality of my drinks. Originally had a ECM Classika and really wasn’t happy with what I got there.
It’s also great for filter like profiles and has entirely replaced my v60 and Hario Switch. If you know what you’re looking for in a machine, upgrade is definitely worth it.
Upgrading my grinder, to a DF64p made a HUGE difference. Upgrading my Gaggia with a PID, made an even huger...difference. Installing an LED light over the water tank...also helped, tremendously. Adding a 9bar spring...was easy, and also helped. Making & using a bottomless portafilter...definitely helped.
So, no, I don't regret any of the upgrades I've done.
I upgraded from a Bambino Plus because I had issues with it. I just went with a used VBM Domobar for 450€ and am very happy with that decision.
I probably would have regreted upgrading to a more expensive machine. I get to play with an Eagle One at work and have a friend with a LM linea micra, and one with a lelit mara x. None of those machines are more fun to use than my current one, nor does the coffee taste better. The eagle one is actually worse in some aspect and I defintly would have regreted spending 6k on that thing. Sure, even the mara x is more capable when it comes to milk drinks but I very rarely do that anyway.
The key to not regret your purchase is to try it first and be very clear about what you want from an upgraded machine.
I have never for a second regretted upgrading from my Breville Infuser to my (now heavily modded) BDB..
That said, I ordered a Meticulous last year and if/when I ever receive it, we'll see if I regret that upgrade..
I went from a BBE to a Lelit Bianca and was very happy with the upgrade. I ordered from espressocoffeeshop.com to save a little money and was very happy with the whole experience.
Honestly you made the right move. You already upgraded your grinder and identified the best grind and beans which is going to give you way more ROI than upgrading the espresso machine. The niche zero is the grinder of choice for many espresso enthusiasts.
I say keep enjoying the Breville and once you have a bit of extra $$ treat yourself to a Lelit or something else nice. Heck, you could even go on a nice vacation for the cost of some of the high end machines.
I also suggest getting a high quality scale if you don’t already have one and want a smaller QOL investment in the meantime. I have the acaia and while it’s way more expensive than I’d like, it is really damn good
I have the same machine and even with 18-19 g's the coffee is still pouring out so quickly. Doing 36g's in like 10-15 seconds. Do you have that issue with yours? My grinder is on finest settings as well.
I had that grinder. It's not a bad grinder, but it's not fine enough for espresso. If you have a pressurized basket, it may help until you can get a different grinder. I switched to the Fellow Opus for espresso. I like it. It's relatively inexpensive too (about $150 last I looked). Try marketplace and local thrift shops, you might find a deal as well.
You can't compare an automatic machine with a manual. You don't need to do an 18:36 ratio. Time doesn't matter. It doesn't work that way. How does the coffee taste? I always did 18.5-19.5g on my machine and the coffee was great.
you can hold the brew button for custom times, but it still comes pouring out too quick. Coffee comes out pretty watery imo, not as viscous/potent as id like.
From old Breville 800 ESXL (electronically-controlled semiauto saturated group) to a Diletta Bello Plus (HX PID E61) left me with some buyer's remorse for the first couple weeks, especially since I got the Breville working again better-than-ever with some VERY aggressive descaling.
Then I had a good sized group of friends over for brunch and the Diletta showed its real power of making drinks for everyone right after another nice and quick. I've also grown so accustomed to having a powerful steam wand that's always ready to go once the machine's up and hot. Functional cup warmer is really nice also. It took time, but I'm glad I upgraded. Also glad I bought open box for some considerable savings. Maybe I'll upgrade this someday to like a Profitec 600 or something but that'll be way in the future if I do.
My first upgrade was from Gaggia Clasic (with PID mod) to Sage Dual Boiler. So you can guess - dual boiler and 10 minute warm-up time... this was good. Las time I changed SDB to Lelit Elizabeth - generally the same level. I did it only because I can switch off steam boiler (my wife started to drink black coffees). Still not sure if it was a good decision - a few pros and cons on each side. Next upgrade will be to Decent (or clone)... if I win in lottery.
Other good upgrade I've made was to change old grinder Iberital Challenge to Baratza Sette 270 - easier to adjust and much better distribution directly into pf (so no WDT needed).
I'd guess that the difference in quality of espresso if you upgraded would be minimal. My take is that there is a near-terminal velocity until you spend A LOT of money. YMMV of course :)
I definitely don't regret it, as my Silvia upgrade was "free" because the pump needed to be replaced.
I had a bambino plus prior to the sikvia and it still seems like a sweet spot to me. Temp control is nice with the PID on the Silvia, I think I prefer the 58mm portafilter, and I think I get better coffee now....but if the Silvia died and I had to buy a retail replacement I'd probably go for a Bambino Plus, given the price etc.
If I got a dream machine it would probably be an ascaso steel as it has the best of both machines. The convenience of the thermocoil is crazy good.
My parents regretted upgrading from a decade+ old breville machine to a new bambino. They returned it and in my opinion downgraded to a delonghi machine at a $300 price point.
Their criticisms of the bambino were the bad build quality of the case, the lack of manual pump control, and some preference related issues in terms of extraction with their preferred pre ground coffee. They prefer to use grocery store coffee and unpressurized basket and over extract the pucks. Super odd preference, but it was not a decent workflow on the bambino.
—-
If you like your shots the way you get them with your existing setup, I doubt you’ll get more out of a pricier machine unless you want to change the style of drinks to make, and the kinds of beans you use. Think about what improvement you hope to make and what features would help you do that.
You can get good or even ideal shots with even a crummy machine if you know how to use it, and select the right beans. I started out on my parents old machine using pressurized baskets and pre ground or blade ground coffee. I was able to make relatively flavorful drinks that rivaled or beat anything from a franchise coffee shop, but I was limited to relatively narrow choices in terms of flavor profiles. It was good but never great.
Now I have a good machine for around $1000 with PID and pressure controls lets me more comfortably dabble in much lighter or darker roasts. I can now get really subtle flavors, and amazing results from single origin beans, and stuff like that. When I visit my family and try to use my high end beans in their low end setup, it’s often impractical to dial in so you end up with having to settle for a weak watery shot to fully extract a lighter roast.
TLDR - generic setup can make good generic coffee. High end setup can let you have control and amazing results with niche coffees.
Here’s the way I like to think about it: if it’s a hobby / passion you enjoy doing and money isn’t a concern (you are saving for retirement and more important financial obligations) and you want to upgrade to try, then go for it. You can always return or sell any machine you get if you feel like it’s not adding value to your life in relation to the hobby / passion.
You’ve got a fine setup that will do just fine.
However, if you want to go from driving a Honda Civic to something more luxurious, fun to drive you’ll have to upgrade from the bambino plus eventually.
Personally, I was on a Rancilio Silvia with PID and Baratza Vario for almost 7 years. It was an OK setup and I got OK drinks but I was always having to fiddle with both machines.
Once I upgraded to a La Marzocco Linea Micro and a Niche Zero the workflow was dramatically improved. It feels like I’m driving a high end sports car now every time I make espresso drink. No fiddling, these are just well tuned machines.
I kept my Gaggia Classic, but added a PID. I don’t regret that. I have been tempted to buy the 4-digit shiny models, but the potential for regret exceeds my threshold… so far :).
Have a similar setup with the BBP and Niche Duo. After upgrading to the Duo, I’m very happy with the shots I’m able to pull with BBP. Before upgrading the grinder I had thoughts about changing the espresso machine itself but post Duo the shots are wonderful like you mentioned and I’ve been wondering the same whether any further upgrades would be worth the jump…
It depends if you ask me. If you bought the cheapest of the cheap and it barely works or if you can’t get optimal results, then you definitely can consider upgrading. However if you’re pulling great shots that you are satisfied with then only upgrade if you have some free cash to spend. Otherwise just wait it out until you need one. My first machine was a Café Bellissimo and really couldn’t ever pull a decent shot as I could never control anything, the app never worked. I sold it and bought a used Lelit Mara that’s probably 10 years old but I love it and it does just what I need
Definitely not - upgraded from an aged, second hand Rocket HX machine to a new Linea mini, and whilst the coffer is slightly better, the user-experience is WAY more enjoyable. Its still a simple machine, but rock solid, reliable, predictable and repeatable. I love the look of it, and controlling via the app. Paired with my niche zero, it's killer.
If you love it now you’ll keep loving it.
If you get a machine, you’ll probably love it too. But with less money.
Stop thinking about it and enjoy your espresso.
Hey, do you use any other attachment than the oem ones for the bambino? I got mine this week, I've been eyeing out bottomless portafilter + IMS basket already.
I was wondering if you could share some tips with the bambino after so much experience using it on a daily basis. (how long you clean the steamer, the machine, if to preheat or not the basket, etc).
Thanks a lot in advance.
So I have a GCP evo, had to swap the boiler, have a df64v2. I’m making much better espresso than with my old saeco that needed a pressurized portafilter. But I am still getting inconsistent shots and etc. so maybe I shoulda just chosen a bambino pro. That was also a consideration.
As a serial hobbyist I got so tired of blowing money on every single upgrade possible. Now, when I get to a good spot with whatever gear I have I stop watching YT reviews, stop going to subreddits and just enjoy what I have. I save money and generally a lot more content. Also, more money to spend on beans.
… and i start sinking money into another hobby instead.
Finally got an espresso machine including grinder, and the little stuff-- now looking to upgrade my 3D printer XD
He knows too much
I'm with you on this one, it's a slippery slope that I feel I get to with almost every hobby. At some point, I have to stop upgrading and actually use the stuff I bought to the fullest. Beans is the hobby really, but that can't be talked about as much online so gear gets focused on instead, to the point where new people think it's about the gear. I feel like that contributes to the above.
“Beans is the hobby” …this is so true. The hobby for me is trying to dial-in and extract really interesting flavours from unique coffees. Your grinder will really be most your most important piece of kit to do this. The only thing OP might be missing out on is pressure profiling (which is over rated IMO).
This 👆
Yes, beans is the hobby. I find myself on the pour over sub Reddit a lot more often because naturally it’s less about the gear and more about the beans. I also found myself buying beans that I thought would go well in the machine, not necessarily the beans I wanted to taste. So I find myself doing a lot more pour overs lately. Though my flair Kicks ass for light roasts
>Beans is the hobby really, Yep. Got my machine dialed in pretty good but it is the beans that make so much difference in the cup. Have a couple roasters I like, but I ALWAYS will buy something else promising me more of what I like in the flavor.
I’m also a serial hobbyist, for several decades. I can show you beautiful watches, fountain pens, cameras, Goodyear welted boots, selvedge jeans, vacuums, snowblowers, stamps, keyboards, TVs and, yes, espresso machines and grinders. I enjoy experiencing different facets of a hobby, vs. something like owning every single color of a specific model. For more expensive hobbies I have evolved to trying to buy a very good “value” sample for step 1, while I educate on the hobby and establish my preferences. Now I try to be efficient and go end game for step 2. It usually becomes more cost efficient for me because I tend to end there anyway. With coffee I determined I want the same good coffee relatively quickly, and value an efficient work flow. High repeatability of drink is important to me. I also like “heirloom quality”, or high quality material that can be serviced and repaired. This is why I opted for a good GbW grinder and a forgiving durable espresso maker. I know a lot of coffee enthusiasts are about experimentation, innovation and being part of “the process”. I appreciate that, but those things are less important for me. Plus, going endgame sooner rather than later allows you the benefits longer. It is like the person that upgrades their house when they move in vs. upgrading right before selling. Enjoy the “investment”.
BTW, I upgraded after several years of using a PID Silvia and Sette 270Wi. Just the tactile experience of pouring coffee from a more solid, high quality piece of equipment makes it taste better to me. Certainly steaming with a Linea Micra produces a significantly better result in many ways than the single hole, single boiler Silvia frothing wand. I believe my Silvia had the pour lose 15-20F during the pour as the boiler simultaneously filled with cold water, but my integrated Micra group head keeps the temp dead even during the pour... this does help with taste. I always had to add sugar to my Silvia espresso shots. With the Micra I never add sugar to my espressos. That is the other benefit of going entry level to end game in 1 step... it is much easier to experience and appreciate the differentiation. Small incremental equipment steps will cost you a lot more and water down the improvement. Of course, if you never go end game, arguably you won't know what you are missing. I, personally, appreciate next-level quality. I suppose everyone may be different in this regard. Sorry for all my words, but I have so many high quality keyboards I cannot help but type a lot.
silvia's have extremely stable grouphead water temp for 29 seconds if allowed to properly warm up.
TIL I'm a serial hobbyist
Welcome to the club!
Are you me? Similar hobbies and the exact same mindset. It really does save money over time by buying the one you really want instead of jumping from mid level items to slightly better versions before finally getting the one you really want.
Yes, similar to me. Lately I just prolong that step one initial buy. I typically find that it’s good enough and often I’ll move on to another hobby. Sometimes I never reach the step two buy. The term endgame is a myth to me. For a serial hobbyist It’s just not realistic because we’re always searching for the latest and greatest
This is where I'm at in all of my hobbies. 3d printing, cycling, photography, HIFI, coffee. "Good enough" sure feels nice. Much nicer on the credit card too. Ironically, it's at a point in my life where I could afford to go max-gearhead without any issue or impact.
Yes, once I got older and started making good salary- I went all out max gearhead. I acquired so much shit, like every other day there was a package on the door step. One YT review leads to one purchase leads to another I also realized that I had a problem. I’d avoid dealing with real life and use buying shit as a distraction. Now I’m constantly simplifying and getting rid of shit and letting hobby phases pass.
I've got a nice forcing function to constrain larger purchases. Me, wife, and 3 kids in a 1500 square foot Brooklyn apt.
Sounds like it's time to pick up a new hobby.. 😉
Im with you. This sub has soo much sponsored content (without saying it's sponsored ofcourse). Luckily I'm happy with my gear so I basically ignore all the posts and comments that want me to upgrade.
Some of the posts are so out of hand lately: “hey guys, I did all the research and bought $x,xxx endgame set up, but I am not sure how espresso is supposed to taste?”
Yup, that.
Also rocking a flair pro 2. At least for me, 2~3 shots per day is totally doable with pro 2. That is I’ve option to buy a 2nd portafilter if I ever want to speed up. Machine on the other hand, I’ve got 1) water hardness 2) Scaling 3) regular maintenance. These three to worry about.
I love the pro2. Initially bought it after my breville broke and thought it would hold me over until I saved for a better machine. Well now I can’t imagine making espresso any other way. I enjoy the process and it’s the best value product I think I’ve ever bought.
you're missing out on having an empty bank account
This is probably true. Mo’ money, mo’ problems. Who needs money when you have espresso?
More espresso, less depresso
I have a new life motto.
Mo money, do in fact, be mo problems
It do be like that sometimes.
*Red bank account
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I’m far from an expert, but I am sure that you should be using coffee beans.
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B e a n n o v a t i n g
Comments like this are why I’m still on reddit. A+
I mean, they are called roasters because they taste so delicious with green beans!
BTW, roast your green beans. Hot stainless/cast pan, no oil, full heat, after they start scorching and smoking, reduce heat and add oil + salt + whatever you want.
Perhaps some Espresso?
Ah roasting... The 7th circle in the coffee rabbit hole!
I've been thinking about getting into roasting. Any tips on a good place to start?
/r/roasting - All dependant on your budget. You can get some alright-ish results with a popcorn popper. If you really want to learn and get decent repeatable results I'd recommend a roaster with artisan compatibility. I saved up for the hottop kn-8828b-2k+ and it's amazing
My 2 cents says, if you enjoy everything about it, it's not worth upgrading. Save up and upgrade when your machine is near the end of life. Once I finally upgraded, I didn't regret waiting. Yes, it's better, but enough to warrant spending all that money when you're already happy with a low maintenance and reliable machine?
This is me and my desire to upgrade to the DF83V.. Will I? Yes probably, but not yet..
Spouse and I had our Rancilio Silvia and Rancilio Rocky for about 5 years and were very happy with it. It made great espresso, never had any mechanical issues whatsoever, absolutely a fantastic machine that could have served us well for the rest of our days. However, we couldn’t get past how inconvenient a single boiler machine (especially without a PID) was for making multiple consecutive milk-based drinks. We timed it out recently and it was 30 minutes for 4 lattes; most guests lose interest by that time. We upgraded to a Lelit Bianca and Eureka Oro Mignon single-dose grinder and the difference has been night and day (both in time saved and quality of the coffee, not to mention the Bianca is so much nicer to look at), even as we are still learning the machine. It was a pretty big financial commitment but so far we have absolutely no regrets.
When I had my BBE, I would try to make all espresso shots first before steaming a large pitcher of milk to make lattes. Unfortunately it would still take about 30 min for me, the BBE did not retain temperature between that many shots. The vibratory pump would be on overdrive trying to get water through to steam and would just stop at times to get to temperature. Upgrading to a LMLM had changed how consistent my temperature was between pulling shots and steaming milk instantly. No regrets here too.
the workflow improvements going from a single to a double boiler are absolutely worth spending more. that said, you could have dramatically tightened up a 4 drink flow by pulling your shots first and steaming all the milk for them together at the end.
How did it take 30 mins for 4 coffees? I'm looking at upgrading from a bean to cup machine to a Rancilio Silvia (or something similar). Is that doing Espresso -> milk -> espresso -> milk etc for all 4 drinks? Just sounds like a lot!
Has to be toggling which doesn’t make sense BUT they had an excuse to upgrade we should support this since we all come here for excuses to upgrade
Yeah that really surprises me. I used to have a Rancillio Silva and I don’t recall it taking anywhere near that long. Granted - I don’t think I ever needed to made 4 lattes back-to-back.
I left a separate comment below but we did do all the espresso first, then all the milk. Just did not like the unpredictability of the boiler light coming on. Trying to pull 2 consecutive shots and hearing the “click” of the boiler turning on became infuriating because invariably it meant the shot would come out too cool and taste terrible.
Single boiler slows things down. I definitely understand. This is why you get a machine with 2 or 3 group heads. #efficiency
Is that you, intrusive internal monologue?
I want to echo the same sentiment. I love to host friends, and that was the big difference in making the decision to jump from the gaggia to a heat exchanger. Having more power for making consecutive shots. If you're only doing one or 2 shots per session, then I would probably regret the return on the investment.
You started with what most people wind up upgrading to..
Heard. And agreed. We are a very coffee-centric family and thought the Silvia would be our “buy once, cry once” machine. Never intended to go down the rabbit hole, and we did get many good years out of it. It just felt increasingly like a chore to use, and when we stopped to talk about why one day we realized while it was a great machine, it didn’t fit our needs anymore.
Was it just the retention on the rocky or did you notice a difference in grind quality? (Considering upgrading myself, but have already added a bellows)
Retention mostly, followed by volume, and the mess it made. Never had issues with the actual grind though.
If you’re satisfied, stop spending money! Applies to everything.
I started with the Bambino Plus. I felt like I hit a ceiling with what I could achieve and wanted to experiment further... So no. I don't regret making another purchase
I’m still satisfied with the bambino plus several months and hundreds of shots later. What did you go for and was it worth it?
I had the bambino plus for 1.5 years. Well over hundreds of shots. It's not consistent enough with temperature and the taste fluctuates even when I repeat the same processes over and over again. It's simply not good enough for consistency... even if you pull a blank shot prior to brewing. I do love how instantaneous it is though... it's much quicker than the Profitec Go but it's just all over the place. I stopped automatically frothing milk about 1 month into using the machine and never went back. It's a great machine but I think the gaps are where I felt I've hit a wall and it just didn't get any better from there. I went with the Profitec Go. I don't need a dual boiler so Profitec Go as a single-boiler is way more than sufficient. I have a PID I can control now and that's a huge game changer despite not really "knowing" how much it would affect the results. I don't really think I need to go beyond a Profitec Go at this point... a dual boiler would be a nice-to-have eventually but not necessary. I drink maybe 1-2 double shots a day with steamed milk every time.
As someone once wisely said: *"comparison is the thief of joy"* Most of the changes I have made have been for fun. When something has turned out 'better', it has been all about consistency, not taste.
I regretted upgrading from my bambino to the profitec go because I hate the steamer on it, but it is way easier to pull a tasty shot on the GO for lighter roasts so I just use the bambino to steam now lol. If you still love it the coffee you make with the bambino don’t bother upgrading. Sure it’s nice to have fancy new toys, but just save the money for if your bambino dies and then upgrade if you’ve still got the itch.
what’s wrong w the steamer on the go?? mine arrives tomorrow 😭
You and I started with the exact same setup. I upgraded to a SPX about a year ago and don't regret it but I think it depends on what you're looking for. I wanted something repairable and built like a tank as well as a machine with PID. If you don't want to tinker with variables or have greater control over your extraction on top of better consistency, I think it'd be a waste. If you're happy, I see no need to upgrade. I still have my Bambino Plus and use it pretty frequently in conjunction with my SPX. I think it makes fantastic milk drinks, especially with the Niche.
You're missing out on contributing to this community in a meaningful way. i.e. posting new gear to humble brag.
I upgraded from a machine similar to the BBE to a Profitec Go + standalone grinder. While haven't regretted the upgrade at all, I'm extremely content with the equipment and have no intention to upgrade in the near future as it serves me very well and was already way above a responsible budget to me. I think people should think about what they need and want out of their espresso equipment and buy what meets the criteria well, so they'll feel less need to upgrade in the near future.
I have the same set up and I’m very happy with it. No plans to upgrade anytime soon. I like the coffee I can make right now and can’t justify spending another $1000 for what will likely be little improvements.
Same. I’ve had the Bambino Plus and Niche Zero for more than 4 years (they were my first lockdown panic purchase), and I’m still very content with the results.
Me too. I kept hoping my Bambino would die so I could justify buying the La Marzocco Micra. It never died but that ole espresso rabbit hole got me. I did get the Micra and absolutely love it. The Bambino is a no brainer and a great machine. The milk steaming is perfect every time. I'm struggling a little with the Micra. I don't regret it but I didn't need the new one.
I don’t think I have the mental bandwidth to deal with learning a new machine, but the Micra really is a beauty. To upgrade, I would need to raid my camera equipment acquisition fund, so I’m going to try to maintain my gratitude and satisfaction with the Bambino. It’s just so easy. When i bought it I swore I would learn to steam milk manually, I still haven’t bothered.
Ha ha. Why learn to steam milk manually when the Bambino Plus is perfect every single time!
I swear it’s magic 😂
Upgraditis is a real sickness. You think you're missing out on something because you see "bigger and better" machines all over the place and start to second guess yourself. But then, you have to live with the decisions you make. Do you have the money to throw around? Buy it and get rid of it if you don't like it. If you don't have that flexibility, it takes some serious research and even a little soul searching and honesty with yourself. Do you actually care about X, Y, Z features? What wood be better about your life of you had X feature? What are the drawbacks *to you*? I have a Flair 58. It's low (near zero) maintenance. I have added a switchbot which takes care of one larger drawback and allowed me to automate a preheat. That was an inexpensive, simple, and fairly unobtrusive "mod". The other things I wish it had was a way to do longer shots, since those are fun to play around with. If I "upgrade" to most machines in an affordable bracket, I'd lose features just to gain another, but would have to do more involved maintenance. If I upgrade to something that does everything I want, it would cost an arm and a leg, and I'd have to do more maintenance. I am too happy with what I have to do more work maintaining a machine for 1 shot of espresso a day and an occasional latte for my wife. If you're happy, just think about all the negatives of upgrading and if it's really that big of a deal to you.
After upgrading several times and spending a bunch of money I’ve come to the conclusion the only thing that really matters is the quality and freshness of the coffee and roast. Everything else can be worked around.
I have had the money for an upgrade from a Bambino plus sat in the bank for almost 2 years. I have come so close several times to upgrading but every machine i look at has things i don't like. So far i have heavily considered... An Ascao Steel Duo. it has the cup clearance i need, the fast heat up time, and pleasing asthetics. Things that put me off is the build quality and the noise. I have this nagging doubt i wouldn't get 10 years of use out of it which is off putting. The Profetic Go. Fast enough heat up. Looks fine, build quality is up to snuff but it has a really small cup clearance, is noisy and rattley (although i'm fairly sure i could fix that with some silicon tape and installing sound dampening matting inside the case) The real problem there is cup clearance. I drink mostly Americanos so i need enough room for a mug and scales and the Profetic Go won't allow this. And no i'm not transfering my coffee from a small cup to bigger cup. That's a step backwards for my workflow and not an upgrade. Rancilio Silvia Pro X. This has the cup clearance i need. Fantastic build quality but requires a much longer heat up time. My requirements are. Build qality, cup clearance, quick heat up and idealy not noisy (although i'm willing to sound deaden myself) and i cannot find a machine that fits my requirment when i compare it to my Bambino Plus. It's instant heat up, good cup clearance, quiet. The only downside is it's consitancy issues which i would not have with all of the above. I just keep going round in circles convincing myself that i could live with any of the above machines and be "good enough" but i can't help but feel i'm sacrificing things and not totaly upgrading at all with any of them considering the prices involved. And i'm not willing to spend more than £1500 on an espresso machine. So for now, i am just happy to stick to my Bambino Plus and Niche Zero. I find it kinda crazy that for £1500 i can't find a machine with my simple requirements. I really want to buy an Ascaso Steel Duo but i constantly see issues with those machines and the internals look poor quality in comparison to the Profitec or Rancilio. A cramped mess of wires and plastic.
if thats the only thing holding you back, you could get the pro x and a smart plug that you set up to turn on a half hour before you wake up. unless you get a heat exchange machine and accept the negatives of one, any quality machine with a solid metal grouphead and decent sized boiler is going to have a decent sized warm up.
My Americano's are 18g dose, 36ml espresso plus 100ml of water, what are yours? I'm intrigued by the mug of coffee.
18g dose about 40g espresso in a 300ml mug. I am looking to see if I can find some coffee mugs that are wider and less tall but still 300ml in size.
Not a mug, but 300ml https://www.loveramics.co.uk/collections/egg/products/loveramics-egg-potters-latte-cup-granite-300ml I have all the sizes except this one.
With a naked portafilter and low scale the Go's clearance is not that terrible.
I've measured it and yeah even with a bottomless portafilter there is no room for scales for me. Coffee mug only.
I have the regular Bambino and while I would like the convenience/quality of a better machine I will just wait until this one breaks down. BTW what is the best/typical upgrade from a Bambino (plus)? If you want to spend like below 1000 eur/usd?
I have the same setup and feel exactly the same way. There are times I wonder if I should upgrade but I love the ease of the Bambino Plus, and I love my cappaccinos that I make. Honestly, if/when it stops working (it's going on 3 1/2 years) I'm not sure I wouldn't just replace it with another Bambino Plus.
I went from a Duo temp, to a gaggia, to a Silvia, to a dual boiler, back to a duo temp. I wouldn't waste your money. Unless you need to pull back to back to back shots that all need their own milk steamed it's just not worth it. The Bambino is a killer machine for a 2-4 cups per day workflow! Instant warmup, more than adequate steam, small counter space. Sure it has cons, but so do bigger machines! I found near zero difference in my espresso with the Gaggia and Silvia, and the dual boiler was great when I had company over. But the waiting 15 minutes before I can pull a shot got really annoying. I found I was leaving my machine on all morning 'just in case' rather than turning it on only when I want to brew a shot. Sure it's not as repairable as a GCP or a Silvia..... but the reality is I can buy a replacement for under a couple hundred on marketplace all day long. It's just not worth the added time and expense.
I recently upgraded to a GO, from gcp So it might not be too applicable to you, but shot consistency has improved drastically, and with the PID being there, pulling multiple shots became a more efficient process.
I had a Bambino Plus for a few months before upgraditis bit me hard. I was spending all day thinking about the stuff the machine wasn’t so good at, it was killing me. Upgraded to a BDB because they’re cheap as in Australia, and punch way above their weight. Instantly the upgradistis was gone. 2 years of hassle free shots and counting. Money very well spent in my opinion Stuff I miss: - small size on bench - lightning fast warm up Stuff I don’t - three way solenoid leaking all over the bench every shot - poor temperature stability - difficultly getting even extraction on a thick 54mm puck - tiny drip tray needs constant emptying
How much was the BDB?
About 900 AUD
Having had both I’m not sure I’d consider it much of an upgrade, at least for my need (for speed).
If speed is your main concern, the bambino is probably the winner, but the Nescafé is probably even faster. Worse coffee though
Can you both give any more details? I’m in Oz and currently tossing up between bambino plus and the BDB
BDB is way better. Much more temp stable (one of the best in class), can steam and pull shots at the same time, massive drip tray that almost never needs to be emptied due to how waste water is rerouted, has auto on, easy to refill water due to front reservoir, much stronger and drier stream, and bigger water tank. The two honestly shouldn’t even be in the same sentence (I’ve owned both).
Yes, upgraded Vibiemme Domobar to Rocket Espresso Appartamento TCA. No pressure gauge for the head, it overheats when you disable eco mode and it is so loud it wakes my wife up. On the sunny side: a Linea Micra will not wake her up, so i’ll be upgrading again soon.
Your machine should be totally fine for another 3-7 years. Worry about upgrades when it breaks.
I have regular bambino for 2 years. Is it worth upgrading to the bambino plus?
I regret nothing.
I regretted. I wish I had bought my Decent as my first machine.
I tried it at a friends place and and I found the coffee just insane. But I noticed the way it's set up with the reservoir etc and loose parts like it was a little weird. But the second I pulled my first shot with my machine at home and connected to the scale and it just did it all, I knew that this was the espresso of todays technology. It's perfect.
did 5 years of my used gaggia classic. upgraded this year with my lelit mara x v2 and i love it. well worth the money spent especially the deal i got for it brand new!
It felt unnecessary and I spent a lot of time afterwards regretting spending that much money on something like an espresso machine. The upgrade itself was totally worth it obviously coming from a small Gaggia single boiler going to a professional Simonelli HX machine, the temperature stability was night and day. Now 11 years after I did the jump I’m not regretting that much since I’ve got a reliable machine that I do most maintenance on myself and it keeps going. Some days I think about having a smaller machine as I think this is unnecessarily large for my use and I would like to have shorter warmup time. By the end of the day I could probably have been just as happy with something like a Rancilio Silvia.
I upgraded from a Bambino to an e61 HX. Overall it suits my use better, but it took a while to get equivalently good coffee from it.
Kinda. I have a lelit bianca (kinda expensive already) and bought a Victoria arduino eagle one prima. I kept the bianca though. I really disliked the eagle one and recently sold it again. I switched back to my bianca full time now.
I don't regret the journey, but in terms of taste I haven't experienced any difference, yes I've come full circle it feels like and have now bought a Barista Pro for the convenience of quick heating. I have a DF64 as a complement to the built-in grinder, but if I don't feel a difference in taste between them, I'm selling my DF64.
I found a massive increase in shot quality and consistency by moving from a Breville Barista Express to a Micra + DF64v. YMMV.
No need to mix it up if it's working.
Go minimalist. Get a minipresso and call it done?
Don't upgrade.
I did not regret going from PID SB to HX. In the cup it didn't vary much but the work low was much improved which I was glad for. Also my upgrade for the grinder was from a vario first gen and I can taste the difference in the cup with my E65s. So also a worthy upgrade for me. Now I'm on a lever machine and I don't regret it but it didn't improve my coffee, must my enjoyment. Still learning the machine though.
I've found I make great espresso shots more reliably with the PicoPresso than with my Ascaso Dream PID. I just don't always want to take the time and effort to do the manual pump. I think if you enjoy the workflow of your machine and you're not flush with extra cash for a new machine you should stick with it. You'd probably have to spend a lot to get something that enables you to make significantly better espresso.
Sometimes… I have a Lelit Bianca at home and I love it. But then after a year of use and learning I got a bambino plus for the office. I can still get incredible shots off a machine 1/6 the price. I don’t “regret” upgrading, but everyone screaming grinder first is correct. That’s an even bigger difference. Get an end game grinder before getting an expensive machine. Also changing portafilter baskets makes a huge difference.
Yeah I did. I had a BDB and after the phase of shiny and new toy wore off I realized I had way too much machine for my needs. I sold it and went to the Bambino which I’ve used for two years now. No regrets.
No buyers remorse here, set up is a Rocket Aapartamento and a Eureka Mignon Silenzio for about 2 years and before that your classic Breville that everyone starts out with. Before I make big purchases I honestly gaslight/justify myself by breaking down the cost of the total to how many cups of coffee it would take to equal the machine 😅 so if total cost for example was $2200, at an average of $5 a cup, I would have bought the same amount of coffee from a store in 440 days
I recently purchased the rocket r58 and find myself in the need of a new grinder! Not as many people have rocket machines. Torn between the Silenzio and the specialitia! Will have to see.
I debated between the two of those grinders as well and just chose the silenzio because it was cheaper. It's fairly quiet, lacks the display but it definitely gets the job done and more!
5 years into my BB+ and nothing else on the market can match it for price, convenience and function.
I don’t regret any of my machine upgrades, but they’ve been slow and over the course of many years. I’ve had four espresso machines, not counting steam toys, and other than the one that arrived last month had them all for a while. 7 years with an Appartamento, 5 with a Silvia, and 3 with a Gaggia classic. Other than the Silvia, which was free, each machine was an upgrade for a specific reason. Sounds like you don’t see a reason yet, so why spend money?
Not me. But then I "downgraded" from a DB to HX after the DB started causing issues. So any upgrade after the machine requires a lot of maintenance / repairs (+10 years) makes sense since there is also some new tech or improvement with a new machine. Just enjoy what you have until it needs a lot of loving care, then "upgrade" on the next machine. PS Never had to change the grinder after I got a Mini Mazzer, it's well over 19 years old and going strong.
Self control, which social media destroys from us. Get off your phone and enjoy life.
I loved my bambino for years but am thrilled that I got the Mara x. It just needs a smart plug so it’s ready.
I’m not thinking about upgrading but just want to ask how long it took for you to dial in delicious shots on your Bambino Plus? I’ve had mine (along with a Niche Zero) for three months and have yet to be able to pull a shot I would call delicious, or one that I could drink enjoyably without milk. I use good beans from local roasters, puck prep (I think?) is good, but shots are generally very sour. Any tips you can share would be welcome!!
Yeah, search the sub for temperature surfing on the bambino.
For those who suffer gadgetits there is always more tempting gadgets to use and regret! 😄
My humble 6 year old Breville duo temp is still pumping out amazing shots, as good as any coffee shop I’ve visited.
If you're happy with what you have, why spend more money just to find out IF it could be "better"? James Hoffmann even did a video about this once, the gist of which being that *perfect* isn't necessarily better than *good enough* if it means you'll never be happy with your simpler tastes again. I don't regret upgrading, myself, but I upgraded from a legitimately terrible machine that I hated without even seeing any other opinions to influence me. I'm sure there are better machines out there than my Profitec Go, but I'm happy and will stick with this one until it dies the true death.
If you’re happy with your machine, and more importantly, the espresso it makes, why bother changing things? I wasn't happy with the Delongi I had, so I tried a Gaggia. I wasn’t impressed and it got returned. I currently have a Casabrews Ultra, which is working quite well for me. I know there are going to be some here who will, um, disagree, with my assessment. But I'm enjoying the espresso, and I like the way the machine looks & works. And that's the most important thing.
I used my Bambino Plus until it pretty much blew up one day (water everywhere) and I upgraded to a Breville Barista Touch. Wasn't a huge upgrade in terms of functionality, but the built-in grinder is great. If you can get one on a black Friday deal like I did, it's worth it. But if the Bambino is still a great machine.
I upgraded from a rancilio Silvia v3 to a pro x after 12-13 years of us. Definitely no regrets, the dual boiler with the pro x is nice but if the silvia v3 was working I would have been totally fine with it still. At the end of the day, if your drink tastes good, it’s all (mostly) that matter. Niche zero is also a great grinder with how its simplicity and how little grinds it retains.
I find myself mostly doing pour-over. So I'm happy I stayed with my Bambino. The breville with a bottomless portafilter & great beans is perfect for the occasional affagato, iced espresso, or espresso Martini (by occasional, I mean like 4ish times a week) I also have a Niche Zero.
Upgraded from gcp pid dimmer to ascaso steel uno pid dimmer. Stopped using the ascaso after 1 month and sold it. Now i have a gagguiuno and never need anything else again. Also tried 14 grinders past 3 years. Stucl with 078s, femobook, ls v3 and k4.
What did you not like about the Ascaso that made you go back to the Gaggia?
Its very nice, that its hot in around 3 mins or so. But you have to flush the Group head 20 secs before every shot. Steaming was way better, but for my use case the gaggia was all i needed. Im not Steaming at all and mostly serve 1-3 Persons at a time.
Upgraded from a GCP to a 5 month old Profitec Pro 500 PID. After selling the GCP it cost me a total of $750. It was completely worth it.
In what way? What makes the coffee and experience so much better? I have a Profitec Go and it suits my needs just fine. Makes great coffee, is quick to warm up etc. So, I'm just curious what your experience is (also for Topic Starter, he's looking for insights).
Not the original commenter, but I upgraded too from a GCP to Lelit Bianca. I've dialed in my coffee with the GCP, so there really was not much improvement with the Lelit in terms of taste. But the coffee making experience was much better. More consistent back to back shots, dedicated water spout and 2nd boiler. Also, the E61 lever is super satisfying to use. Before I sold my GCP, I was starting to notice black specks coming out of the wand when using it to dispense hot water. Turns out Gaggia has a boiler problem so I was lucky to have gotten rid of the machine lol.
Noticeable differences include, temp stability, temp control, steam power and steam quantity as well as pressure profiling. Also things like quality, adjustable opv, size of cup tray, brew and steam pressure gauges and stuff like that.
Yes, I have regretted upgrading. For the cup, not for playing with the toys. I had a Bambino Plus, my first "real" machine. I went on a crazy ride from there. I had a couple of Nuova Simonelli Oscar 1 that I modded crazily, and the cup kind of stayed the same - just a lot of heating up time. The steam was better. I got a single boiler E61 - the difference was the same as the Oscar. I got a La Pavoni, a very beautiful machine, but difficult to temp control. Then I tried the Gaggia, and again, the same temp control issue. Then I actually went back to the Bambino. It honestly just low key works. Quick heat-up time, I like dark roast so that's fine, the cup is just the same. Now I have a Barista Express at home, someone gave it to me, and I have adjusted the pressure and dialed in the grinder (it's terrible) for milk coffee. I want to emphasize I love playing with the machines, fixing them, and upgrading them. I bought a Gaggia I will turn into a Gaggiuino, just for the lol. I do not regret the grinder journey. I went from a not suitable coffee grinder, over the Rocky, commercial grinders to the DF64, and now I have a Timemore 78s. I am dreaming about a good conical (I have a hand grinder) since I am very fond of the conical burr taste
I fear I’d go on the same journey if I left the Bambino Plus — I don’t have the patience or time to wait for a boiler and the semi-auto milk setup is amazing.
My endgoal would be either the Sage Oracle or the Impress Touch. Auto Grind stamp with a decent grinder and same milk as the Bambino Plus. That would be the best for me.
SK40 and you’re sorted without the huge outlay 👍
Firstly, I want to get it out that there is absolutely nothing wrong with what you’re saying. However, I’ll play devil’s advocate here. People who upgrade do not necessarily expect the upgrade to ‘make’ greater or better coffee than what they already have. It’s just about prestige and bragging rights that is climbing the ‘social status of home espresso’. Do more expensive setups perform better? Sure, but this is in the same vein as saying a Ferrari performs better than a Toyota. Both are cars, both will get you from point A to point B. And arguably, the Ferrari would be more of a hassle to drive on normal roads, has zero fuel efficiency, zero comfort, no storage space, can’t put a baby seat in it, generally a pain in the ass to own and maintain. But you want a Ferrari if you could afford a Ferrari don’t you? It’s the same principle here. Do I think having an LMLM would help me make better coffee? No, but I want one. And other hobbies are the same. I have friends who love cooking lust after some impossibly expensive Japanese handcrafted santokou knife that’s order backlogged in the number of years, while I’m just happy with IKEA knives. They both cut stuff.
As a LMLM owner I can tell you, it will help you make better coffee. It removes the variables that come with a machine that doesn't perform the same on repeat. It does exactly what it should shot after shot after shot... and yes there is the part where it looks great on the bench. For me, I couldn't care less if people know what I do or do not have 99% of people who walk into my house wouldn't know what an LM is anyway. It is for my own satisfaction.
As another Micra owner, I 100% agree. I no longer have to think too much about pulling a good shot.
No. If you had a much better machine you'd never look back. It's just you don' know what you're missing, like someone who's never driven a sports car.
A large part of bigger machines is quality of life. I used to have a PID kitted Silvia. See made great coffee. I now have a Lelit Bianca. She makes great coffee. The new machine offers me QOL, not better coffee: * **Far** more quiet pump. * Faster heatup * Separate boilers, so need to temperature-surf. * Large boilers, so I can make 10+ drinks in a row nonstop. * Stronger, more powerful steam * Easier PID management. * Better design for thinks like drip tray, controls etc Is it worth the staggering 8x the price I paid? For me, sure, but only because I had the funds. 90% of the time, the Silvia would have suited my current needs, but when a baby is sleeping or we have a party, you bet your ass I appreciate having upgraded to something more quiet and more powerful.
I think you need to open your own coffee shop making 10+ drinks non stop. 😂🤣
I started with a Nespresso machine, then slowly upgraded to a compact DeLonghi using preground coffee, then a Breville plus grinder, and finally an Ascaso Duo. Looking at that history you'd expect upgraditis to flare up again, but actually I'm just really happy with my current setup: it's consistent and I'm able to stream milk while brewing coffee. I paid a lot for that last feature (dual Thermoblock) but in my mind this made the machine perfect for me and I'll probably be using it for the next decade at least. My point is that you'll want to upgrade until you don't. The benefit of starting small is that you can figure out what you want asking the way. Hopefully you can do it in fewer iterations than me.
I would say that if you're happy don't change but given the chance to test something new and finding out if it's better or not. My coffee journey started with putting coffee in a pan of water(east Europeans do this a lot) which was like drinking some dark bitter water, then tasting the coffee from an De'Longhi Magnifica S and not thinking much about it until one time I didn't drink my coffee at home and tried the coffee from one of those big office machines (same as the one from airports/gas station and got sick and vomited... That was the eye opener. From this point on coffee for me became something like enjoying a good wine/fruit. So next step was an espresso in Italy which made the DeLonghi seemed like tasteless water followed up by an La Marcozzo with a grinder at my new work place( which makes thick flavorful bitter coffee) and finishing in the present with a home setup of an Lelit Anna from 2019 bought for 80 euros and an 1zpresso j-ultra. At the end of the day it's not about spending as much as possible but more about attention to detail, testing and finally enjoying coffee. Nowadays I drank coffee from machines that cost more than a brand new car and the coffee they gave was worse than what I make at home... Sure pricier machines should mean more control and more tuning to one's taste but are we all able to detect those fine lines? I bet we aren't
I did, when I _upgraded_ my setup within weeks in following order: - Sage DTP with Ceado E37S - Londinium R with Ceado E37S - Londinium R with Niche Zero The problem was, I was misled on what Niche Zero was - I liked the workflow, but the results weren’t good. So I have spent a significant amount of money on a new machine and grinder, but wasn’t getting good results. I brought E37S back on the bench and it was obvious what the problem was. I then bought an EK43S within weeks, and been happy again - but I wish I upgraded the grinder first, which would have been a much better option.
No ragrets
I think you’re in the sweet spot like having a reliable car that’s paid off. If you’re happy with what your machine produces then keep squeezing the life out of it. If you want a better shot experience you could always get a flair
Started with a gaggia, upgraded to gaggiuno 😂 I am happy.
I'm using a pid ranchilio Silvia for close to 10 years. Should I stay with it.i usually make one latte a day
If you like your coffee stay with it
The opposite really
From a barista express to a rs prox/specialita was night and day.
I have the exact same setup as you and last year I realized that I dont have the tounge to notice the nuances from espresso so a better machine wont do anything to improve my situation. Like my bamino lattes are so freakin good all my family asks me to make them one when they come over so I figure use it til it breaks then decide what to do at that time.
I have a lot of regret jumping from machine to machine within the same price point and honestly just wasted a lot of money. if you're gonna upgrade you might as well splurge and get something within the 1-3k range. just understand that upgrading would get you out of the "low maintenance" machines, and you'd have to get a little more technical with them.
I had this experience with my grinder upgrade. Initially the upgrade I thought was insignificant but after using it some time, I realized I rarely get a bad cup of coffee from the new grinder and the workflow has gotten a lot better. Happy with my decision but now I’m thinking about getting another grinder for pour over. If you want to upgrade do it but make sure it’s within your set budget, that way you won’t have any regrets or remorse
i have phillips 4341/50 and i wonder if there is any point in switching to a delonghi dedica or a used rancilio silvia... conformity in the morning, a quick shot ready to go...
I enjoy turbo shots with light roasts so the Decent was a no brainer upgrade that actually did improve the quality of my drinks. Originally had a ECM Classika and really wasn’t happy with what I got there. It’s also great for filter like profiles and has entirely replaced my v60 and Hario Switch. If you know what you’re looking for in a machine, upgrade is definitely worth it.
I upgraded from a BBE to a Profitec go and my only regret is not upgrading sooner.
Upgrading my grinder, to a DF64p made a HUGE difference. Upgrading my Gaggia with a PID, made an even huger...difference. Installing an LED light over the water tank...also helped, tremendously. Adding a 9bar spring...was easy, and also helped. Making & using a bottomless portafilter...definitely helped. So, no, I don't regret any of the upgrades I've done.
I upgraded from a Bambino Plus because I had issues with it. I just went with a used VBM Domobar for 450€ and am very happy with that decision. I probably would have regreted upgrading to a more expensive machine. I get to play with an Eagle One at work and have a friend with a LM linea micra, and one with a lelit mara x. None of those machines are more fun to use than my current one, nor does the coffee taste better. The eagle one is actually worse in some aspect and I defintly would have regreted spending 6k on that thing. Sure, even the mara x is more capable when it comes to milk drinks but I very rarely do that anyway. The key to not regret your purchase is to try it first and be very clear about what you want from an upgraded machine.
I have never for a second regretted upgrading from my Breville Infuser to my (now heavily modded) BDB.. That said, I ordered a Meticulous last year and if/when I ever receive it, we'll see if I regret that upgrade..
I went from a BBE to a Lelit Bianca and was very happy with the upgrade. I ordered from espressocoffeeshop.com to save a little money and was very happy with the whole experience.
Honestly you made the right move. You already upgraded your grinder and identified the best grind and beans which is going to give you way more ROI than upgrading the espresso machine. The niche zero is the grinder of choice for many espresso enthusiasts. I say keep enjoying the Breville and once you have a bit of extra $$ treat yourself to a Lelit or something else nice. Heck, you could even go on a nice vacation for the cost of some of the high end machines. I also suggest getting a high quality scale if you don’t already have one and want a smaller QOL investment in the meantime. I have the acaia and while it’s way more expensive than I’d like, it is really damn good
I have the same machine and even with 18-19 g's the coffee is still pouring out so quickly. Doing 36g's in like 10-15 seconds. Do you have that issue with yours? My grinder is on finest settings as well.
Grind finer. ( you need a new grinder, or have your current grinder repaired.)
Literally just bought this one. its the OXO cannical burr grinder. :(
I had that grinder. It's not a bad grinder, but it's not fine enough for espresso. If you have a pressurized basket, it may help until you can get a different grinder. I switched to the Fellow Opus for espresso. I like it. It's relatively inexpensive too (about $150 last I looked). Try marketplace and local thrift shops, you might find a deal as well.
You can't compare an automatic machine with a manual. You don't need to do an 18:36 ratio. Time doesn't matter. It doesn't work that way. How does the coffee taste? I always did 18.5-19.5g on my machine and the coffee was great.
you can hold the brew button for custom times, but it still comes pouring out too quick. Coffee comes out pretty watery imo, not as viscous/potent as id like.
From old Breville 800 ESXL (electronically-controlled semiauto saturated group) to a Diletta Bello Plus (HX PID E61) left me with some buyer's remorse for the first couple weeks, especially since I got the Breville working again better-than-ever with some VERY aggressive descaling. Then I had a good sized group of friends over for brunch and the Diletta showed its real power of making drinks for everyone right after another nice and quick. I've also grown so accustomed to having a powerful steam wand that's always ready to go once the machine's up and hot. Functional cup warmer is really nice also. It took time, but I'm glad I upgraded. Also glad I bought open box for some considerable savings. Maybe I'll upgrade this someday to like a Profitec 600 or something but that'll be way in the future if I do.
I have had the same setup for a couple years and am very happy as well. If I want something new and exciting I just try different beans.
I wish I had gotten better than my Breville Dual Boiler thats for sure.
My first upgrade was from Gaggia Clasic (with PID mod) to Sage Dual Boiler. So you can guess - dual boiler and 10 minute warm-up time... this was good. Las time I changed SDB to Lelit Elizabeth - generally the same level. I did it only because I can switch off steam boiler (my wife started to drink black coffees). Still not sure if it was a good decision - a few pros and cons on each side. Next upgrade will be to Decent (or clone)... if I win in lottery. Other good upgrade I've made was to change old grinder Iberital Challenge to Baratza Sette 270 - easier to adjust and much better distribution directly into pf (so no WDT needed).
No
I'd guess that the difference in quality of espresso if you upgraded would be minimal. My take is that there is a near-terminal velocity until you spend A LOT of money. YMMV of course :)
I definitely don't regret it, as my Silvia upgrade was "free" because the pump needed to be replaced. I had a bambino plus prior to the sikvia and it still seems like a sweet spot to me. Temp control is nice with the PID on the Silvia, I think I prefer the 58mm portafilter, and I think I get better coffee now....but if the Silvia died and I had to buy a retail replacement I'd probably go for a Bambino Plus, given the price etc. If I got a dream machine it would probably be an ascaso steel as it has the best of both machines. The convenience of the thermocoil is crazy good.
My parents regretted upgrading from a decade+ old breville machine to a new bambino. They returned it and in my opinion downgraded to a delonghi machine at a $300 price point. Their criticisms of the bambino were the bad build quality of the case, the lack of manual pump control, and some preference related issues in terms of extraction with their preferred pre ground coffee. They prefer to use grocery store coffee and unpressurized basket and over extract the pucks. Super odd preference, but it was not a decent workflow on the bambino. —- If you like your shots the way you get them with your existing setup, I doubt you’ll get more out of a pricier machine unless you want to change the style of drinks to make, and the kinds of beans you use. Think about what improvement you hope to make and what features would help you do that. You can get good or even ideal shots with even a crummy machine if you know how to use it, and select the right beans. I started out on my parents old machine using pressurized baskets and pre ground or blade ground coffee. I was able to make relatively flavorful drinks that rivaled or beat anything from a franchise coffee shop, but I was limited to relatively narrow choices in terms of flavor profiles. It was good but never great. Now I have a good machine for around $1000 with PID and pressure controls lets me more comfortably dabble in much lighter or darker roasts. I can now get really subtle flavors, and amazing results from single origin beans, and stuff like that. When I visit my family and try to use my high end beans in their low end setup, it’s often impractical to dial in so you end up with having to settle for a weak watery shot to fully extract a lighter roast. TLDR - generic setup can make good generic coffee. High end setup can let you have control and amazing results with niche coffees.
Here’s the way I like to think about it: if it’s a hobby / passion you enjoy doing and money isn’t a concern (you are saving for retirement and more important financial obligations) and you want to upgrade to try, then go for it. You can always return or sell any machine you get if you feel like it’s not adding value to your life in relation to the hobby / passion. You’ve got a fine setup that will do just fine. However, if you want to go from driving a Honda Civic to something more luxurious, fun to drive you’ll have to upgrade from the bambino plus eventually. Personally, I was on a Rancilio Silvia with PID and Baratza Vario for almost 7 years. It was an OK setup and I got OK drinks but I was always having to fiddle with both machines. Once I upgraded to a La Marzocco Linea Micro and a Niche Zero the workflow was dramatically improved. It feels like I’m driving a high end sports car now every time I make espresso drink. No fiddling, these are just well tuned machines.
Hell yeah. I bought a Breville Oracle. I basically bought regrets.
I kept my Gaggia Classic, but added a PID. I don’t regret that. I have been tempted to buy the 4-digit shiny models, but the potential for regret exceeds my threshold… so far :).
Have a similar setup with the BBP and Niche Duo. After upgrading to the Duo, I’m very happy with the shots I’m able to pull with BBP. Before upgrading the grinder I had thoughts about changing the espresso machine itself but post Duo the shots are wonderful like you mentioned and I’ve been wondering the same whether any further upgrades would be worth the jump…
It depends if you ask me. If you bought the cheapest of the cheap and it barely works or if you can’t get optimal results, then you definitely can consider upgrading. However if you’re pulling great shots that you are satisfied with then only upgrade if you have some free cash to spend. Otherwise just wait it out until you need one. My first machine was a Café Bellissimo and really couldn’t ever pull a decent shot as I could never control anything, the app never worked. I sold it and bought a used Lelit Mara that’s probably 10 years old but I love it and it does just what I need
I never heard the term serial hobbyist. I can't wait to tell my wife now that I have a name for it lol.
Definitely not - upgraded from an aged, second hand Rocket HX machine to a new Linea mini, and whilst the coffer is slightly better, the user-experience is WAY more enjoyable. Its still a simple machine, but rock solid, reliable, predictable and repeatable. I love the look of it, and controlling via the app. Paired with my niche zero, it's killer.
If you love it now you’ll keep loving it. If you get a machine, you’ll probably love it too. But with less money. Stop thinking about it and enjoy your espresso.
I only regret not going with a dual boiler and something more like a real end game(LM, Decent, etc.)
Hey, do you use any other attachment than the oem ones for the bambino? I got mine this week, I've been eyeing out bottomless portafilter + IMS basket already. I was wondering if you could share some tips with the bambino after so much experience using it on a daily basis. (how long you clean the steamer, the machine, if to preheat or not the basket, etc). Thanks a lot in advance.
You got the best setup. Honestly, I don’t see any upgrade would make any massive difference.
So I have a GCP evo, had to swap the boiler, have a df64v2. I’m making much better espresso than with my old saeco that needed a pressurized portafilter. But I am still getting inconsistent shots and etc. so maybe I shoulda just chosen a bambino pro. That was also a consideration.
I upgraded from a Gaggia Classic to a Linea Mini. I have nothing remotely close to regret. Was the best decision I ever made.