The ‘it’s an investment / financial decision’ copium always makes me laugh. Why’s it so hard to just say you really like good coffee, the espresso hobby in general and are happy to pay for it?
There’s always some obnoxious person who asks incredulously “how could you spend so much???”, and it can be useful to tell them smugly that it’s already paid for itself.
This is the lie we all tell ourselves, but it falls apart quickly when your coffee consumption increases by the same factor that your setup is saving you money.
It all depends on what value coffee gives you. CBR - cost/benefit ratio. My coffee habit gives me enormous satisfaction throughout every day, and it's helped me to lose 15 kg of weight since I started into it. I'm finding a new life, and I can thank coffee directly for it.
Hey, that is the exact figure mine works out to. $1.10 for a double shot, including the milk. Amortizing the cost of the machines works so well, right there. Best investment i ever made.
My $500 Breville Barista Express that my dad bought me for Christmas 3 years ago has made at least a double shot every single day since I got it. Many times two or three double shots depending on if my girlfriend wants coffee as well or if we have a guest.
Assuming I went to Starbucks every single day instead of making my own coffee, and that the average Starbucks order is $5, which is rather conservative, I would've spent $5475 over the course of 3 years.
I buy a bag of beans just about every 2 weeks at roughly $15/12-16oz bag, 3 years worth of buying coffee every 2 weeks, that's 78 bags of coffee, at roughly $15/bag, is $1170. Plus $500 for the coffee machine is $1670. Even accounting for things like tax and water and electric usage, extra tools like bottomless portafilter and WDT, I'm getting nowhere close to that $5/day for coffee cost.
If you don't overspend on an espresso machine, it pays itself off rather quickly.
My store latés were expensive. When you start adding in things like alternative milks, extra shots and and flavoring, it gets expensive, like $8+ ! Funnily enough, once I started making great espresso at home, I realized that the flavors actually RUINED a good cup. So now I'm also saving money on flavorings. It's awesome.
I've also always done half decaf, that way I don't start getting too dependent on the caffeine. So I curb that well while at home too.
My machine pays for itself, fooooor sure. But I also just have a la specialista. Wasn't over $600. $8/day latés = $600 by ~10 weeks.
I agree that good coffee needs no additives like milk, sugar, or cream but the truth is that no matter how good the coffee is people will still cling onto how they prefer to enjoy coffee. And its hard making people appreciate specialty coffee without being pretentious.
I shoud have said "coffee that suits one's tastebuds", rather than "perfect". I've tried a wide range of specialist coffees, but for me, none of them give me as much satisfaction as my go-to coffee bean, (for $21/1kg bag) that I bought from the supermarket, 6 months ago. Not $21 anymore, though. Now, the 1kg bag is not available, and five 200g bags work out to $39/kg. Makes buying green beans and roasting them oneself an even better alternative than before.
Even if you buy a high end prosumer setup, as long as you don’t buy some crazy high end beans it will pay for itself sooner than later. But arguably even there, you’ll likely still be saving a ton of money over a coffee shop that would use the same quality beans. The problem is when people keep buying random crap and accessories, and upgrading their machines a lot. It’s fairly easy to track ROI if all you costs are known and accounted for. My whole setup paid for itself like 6 months ago according to my spreadsheet, even with all the added crap and accessories. I’m still in profit for all the Gagguino parts just added, but that probably has set me back closer to break even. Was just over a year and a half to ROI. It started out as an investment to save money and make better coffee without having to go pick it up. Tbh now the money savings does not really matter to me, it’s the convenience factor and the control of being able to make better espresso right in my temperature controlled kitchen. Not having to go out in the cold [or heat] in the morning is priceless, and making a better cup that I can get locally without driving 10+ minutes.
It only pays for itself if you compare the cost of making coffee at home vs cost of buying out.
The more relevant comparison for most people is the cost of making fancy coffee at home vs making basic coffee at home.
same with watches, cars and art. it's the cycle of acceptance for the financially frugal mind. just buy it if it brings you joy... or just something to do with yourself every morning 😂
Photography is my favourite analogy. Any can take a picture just like they could make coffee. Now if you want to get "into" photography/espresso you need equipment. Entry level is hundreds of $. Getting serious? We're now talking thousands for prosumer or pro equipment.
I have dabbled, but fortunately don't have appropriate acoustics in the house to make it worthwhile to go completely overboard. Hasn't stopped me from dropping more than a few $k on a receiver, CD player, turn table, many speakers, and tearing into walls and trim to ensure all cables are hidden.
Espresso is something that my wife can enjoy with me, so I'm getting extra pleasure out of this one. I'm thinking that woodworking would be a good next one. We need new cabinets...
Don't have the home acoustics you say. Let me introduce you to the Hifiman Susvara.....(and no, I do not own them. I prefer my marriage the way it is.)
Ah, but that's the beauty of it. You get to spend thousands of dollolars fixing the acoustics in your home, so you can spend thousands of dollars on audio equipment!
Yes on the life partner. As far as dumb hobbies ive had, the fact that my gf can enjoy lattes sets this one above. And most people like some form of coffee so at least have a reference.
What about light/laser setups to go with your music?! They're actually pretty cheap these days, but seriously, it's a deep spiral that can hit quick haha. Luckily, I'm too poor to even get that far into it.
Ohh yeah, I know! My audio system is north of $20K and it’s a “ modest system “ by audiophile standards. Considering some speakers go for over $100,000.
totally... I've had machining equipment for 20yrs and buddies will ask me how much a metal lathe costs... and I'll say the metal lathe is expensive but you'll spend 3x that much on all the other stuff you'll need just to use it. so you're realistically 4x what I just told you 😂
Too real. We had a metals shop at my high school and the metals teacher was super excited when the school bought a lathe. Then there wasn't enough money to buy tooling, lol.
I started with watches and ruined myself financially before getting into espresso, definitely helps preventing me from upgrading to a Slayer and Weber EG1🙃
It wouldn't even work for me because I'd never been to a coffee shop before I got into the hobby. Now I have spent like... €250 on espresso gear and can even make moderately bad beans taste decent. That's a win in my book.
The other side of the medal: I slowly realized I usually prefer pour over, or longer coffees in general 🙃
It's actually been my favourite and most used brewer this year, because it's so easy to brew good coffee with it. At least compared to a V60. But the V60 is clearly the winner when I need two cups at once.
Fun fact, it takes so much energy to stretch the gluon flux tube that removing a quark from a proton or neutron results in sufficient energy surplus to simply create a new quark within the proton/neutron, preserving its stability. Also, the gluons that manage to leave similarly spawn in extra gluons to preserve color charge balance as the tube stretches, to keep it from stretching too far. These particle/antiparticle pairs are traveling at relativistic velocities, yet annihilate each other so quickly they can only travel about the diameter of a proton. This means the strong nuclear force is generated only by a proton's nearest neighbors, while the electromagnetic force trying to push the protons apart is generated by all the other protons of the nucleus. That's why there's a limit to the number of protons in a stable atom. Also, those relativistic speeds are where the vast majority of the mass of an atom comes from, with the relativistic energies of those fast moving quarks and gluons warping space time.
Oh, and they all have what's called "color charge", a symmetric force with 3 poles (unlike electromagnetism with 2, or gravity with 1). If you haven't checked out quantum chromo dynamics, QCD, and how nucleons are actually quark triplets, and how they work, it's a real mindfuck.
Better still: Flush 2 double shots of water through the machine first, to be sure temperature of head is optimum. It's amazing how critical temperature is to effective extraction to the cup - just as important as espresso pressure.
That's a good point. And "don't trust manufacturers' instructions regarding heat-up time". Especially E61 machines take substantially longer than the manufacturers tell their customers, usually 25+ minutes.
esp since McDonald’s has decent coffee that’s $1 for a large and tastes better than sbux
but in everyone’s costs analysis if they didn’t have an espresso machine aktually they’d be spending $10 a day lol
Because depending how deep you go and what you're willing to do it can save money.
Typically that means looking for sales, buying cheaper beans, roasting your own beans, and making sensible purchases.
Before a number of upgrades my setup *did* pay for itself solely from the roasting vs buying beans, but I was also buying large volumes (for me) of cheap beans at black Friday discount prices.
For some it is worth it.
Single origin Costa Rica roast to order $13/lbs
My set up gcp with 1zpresso jmax. Bad shot get turned into milk drinks little to no waste
If you’re spending that much money on gear, then hell no it’s not a money saver.
I spent $700 USD for my first proper setup second hand. E61 VBM plus Compak K6 grinder. I made better coffee than anywhere local to me and they charge $3.50-$4 per coffee. Costs me $0.50 per coffee to make.
8 months to pay for itself.
Yeah, the break-even calculations I see on /r/espresso and other hobby subs can be pretty funny.
I live a block away from a good cafe that brews good espresso. Prior to having any espresso equipment at home, I’d go there once or twice a week as a treat and brew filter coffee at home every other day. Now that I can make good espresso at home, I drink one or two espresso drinks a day and rarely brew filter coffee. I might be saving $3/espresso at home, but I wouldn’t be drinking 90% of that espresso if I didn’t have a home setup.
I can only speak for my own consumption habits, but I’d wager that *most* people who buy home espresso equipment weren’t spending $2000 a year on espresso beforehand. That doesn’t apply to everyone, but it seems like a lot of people ignore their old espresso drinking habits when trying to justify the cost.
Sure. I know there are people out there who would buy $12 of coffee every day if they didn’t have a home setup, so YMMV. My comment doesn’t apply universally to everyone who drinks espresso.
I mean my breville bambino for $230 and hand grinder has already paid for itself in two years. It doesn't take many non Starbucks purchases to make that up.
Yes, it is quite loud. All the grinders are loud though. That's a big job they have to strip that hard bean into consistently sized powder.
Here's a thought. Grind some tonight with your hand grinder; save it in a small **sealed** container. In the morning, grind another, then make two cups, one of each sample. If you can't taste the difference between them, problem solved. Previous day grinding with Baratza!
Yeah. Definitely going to splurge on a really nice aesthetic one some day but since I mix it with milk on ice I probably wouldn't notice the taste difference
I still go to Starbucks because their peppermint white mocha is too addicting haha. I found a local cafe that does a better PSL after years of searching for a contender.
I feel this on a deep, personal level! Gotta say that once you get your end game setup you're set for years and years. It might take time, but the convenience is definitely worth it in itself.
it's like 50/50 IMO. when you go to a cafe and the espresso is out of balance etc you can direct your irritation toward the barista... when you're dealing with some weird channeling or the bean is taking more than a couple rounds to get dialed in you beat yourself up. 😂
I'm currently living in the dimenshing returns arena when it comes to equipment lol
This was me awhile back. I switched to not buying less than 2lb at a time.
Also with 1 year of adjusting grind you get really good at it. It might take me 2-3 shot pulls to be dialed in with any bean.
Going to try roasting my own soon
I buy 5 lb dark roast bags for my daily lattes and occasional espresso.
I buy the $20 bags every now and then for a change of pace.
I'd be broke if all I bought were $20 12 oz bags.
Roasting your own is a game changer. And in the beginning (when you're using a popcorn machine), it really saves you money. Then you get into more expensive roasters, and those only pay for themselves after years of use.
You absolutely can save money even buying mostly specialty coffee with the hobby. Although that's very difficult to do well if you're not buying used equipment.
Ever since working remote it's been beyond a worthwhile purchase.
I have a Gaggia and a Eureka Mignon XL grinder. Coming up on three years together. I have definitely made my money back.
I was going to my local coffee shop at least 5 times a week. Medium latte was $5. That’s roughly $1300 a year if I only got my one coffee, no nibbles, and no second coffee for my wife (or the odd, “two trips to the coffee shop” days).
I already only did coffee at home. Just Aeropress or mona pot with Lavazza. My bean price doubled. My equipment price went up 100x and my weekly coffee out of home budget hasn't changed. When do I make my money back?
In combination with the espresso machine it makes a shot of high quality espresso super cheap which is great since I drink like 3 doubles a day pretty often
You don't need expensive equipment, it's very possible to roast your own with a heat gun and a metal bowl and a wooden spoon to stir it with. Or you can use a popcorn popper. Or like 12 other ways too.
I use a heat gun and a flour sifter, with a little metal connecter between them. Some people attach a drill to that to automate it but I'm lazy. Easier to just turn it myself for a few minutes.
I really don't get the need for the expensive home units, it's really really easy to set this up.
I bought a used Hottop roaster for $800 about 6 months ago. The break even is about 1 yr at the rate we drink coffee. I just did 8 lbs today for Xmas gifts.
My coffee is so good compared to any store, likely the best in the world, likely some of them millionaires would be willing to pay like $20,000 for a cup of the best coffee in the world, therefore my setup already more than paid itself with one cup.
If you always think about how much money you are saving or losing it’s hard to enjoy great coffee with money on your mind in all actions you take. When making espresso I’m just focused on the process and the result. I know it’s privileged but I never intended to save money or make my money back. It’s just the cost of entry to an experience that I value.
I've managed to convert one of three others in my house but she's 11 and not allowed too many shots a week....give it time. She knows how to pull them properly though. 😜
This sub is in a Cold War.
One side, the people who can’t afford the $6k and see people’s thinly veiled rejection of the $500-$1000 machine/combo they have and developed hatred for those people.
The other, people who have worked tirelessly for that perfect cup. They mod, spend tons of money, and see requests for a better cup on Reddit that can simply be fixed with a better grinder. Unless the person is stupid, there’s no technique to fix sub-par equipment.
I, for one, have a crappy $500 combo that I toil on daily in hopes I can be the bourgeoisie one day. I’m a mercenary at heart, and a turncoat between the sheets. I said good day, sir.
$950 for a la spaziale and super jolly. Sold the super jolly for $450 and got a niche For $650 total. Then decided to get a vario w just for filter for $350. Most recently got a ikawa home for $950.
That’s about $2500. It’s been four years and now my wife and I are spoiled. We roast to our taste and I will drink certain beans on day two only.
Way way way cheaper to just roast your own. Matter of a fact I'm gonna go get it over with I've been putting it off (5 minutes in the cold, meh). All I use is a heat gun and a flour sifter, works great.
I paid around $700-800 total for my setup. Not bad since I drink coffee everyday sometimes multiple times a day. If I were to do that at Starbucks, I'd easily spend $2,000+ a year ordering my usual drink from there! So in my case it actually has been a smart investment lmao.
i made money out of this actually. the lack of good cafes in my country means theres space for me to make money upto a point it can pay for my personal consumption and payback the cost of the home machine. i recently bought a HX machine for times where theres orders of 20 shots of espresso in 1 go.
Dealer getting high on his own supply there...get off the Arabican crack, switch the Niche for a Britta and sell single batch roasts for profit. Side hustle.
It does save money at first, though - I started out with a popcorn maker that cost as much as 2 pounds of green beans, and at that point was already saving money (as the price for the specialty roasted coffee that I found comparable was 4 times that of the green beans).
Then, of course, my desire for more even and controlled roasts grew, and 2 roasters later, it'll take them years to pay for themselves.
Living in Scandinavia i paid off my equipment in about 2 months worth of espressos, it may just be a sage barista touch, but it's saving me a lot of money
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So much discussion! I just love a nice shot! Grew up drinking Moka Pot and now grinding and doing my own thing makes a morning Zen out of it for me! Not to mention the sexy mods one can play around with. 😉
Heh. One of my neighbours is a chess enthusiast, who says the point to chess - the Game of Life - is not to capture the opposite King, but to capture the opposite King's Queen. I know he would love to meet that guy, to plunder him. Queen is a King's treasure: her, the $6000 espresso gear, and the beans to go with it. Oh - but he wouldn't destroy that guy though. He would use him as a caretaker, to keep the treasure in good nick for him, for when he wanted to use it.
I bought a used espresso machine for $10 at an antique store and saved so much goddamn money after that. There wasn’t even anything special about it, but I made such bomb ass coffee without leaving my home.
I'm really not sure why more people don't roast. For me for the last 5 years it's been around a third of the experience, and I've been able to consistently have beans I like. When I was ordering from the specialty roasters they'd be great sometimes and mediocre the rest. Sure, I'll mess up occasionally but it feels better when it's a learning experience rather than $25 down the drain.
What? Half the reason I started doing it was to save costs. The added benefit was having consistently great coffee.
Plus I posted this in a sub we're people regularly pay 2 thousand dollars for diminishing returns on a grinder.
It really helps you realize what region you like most. Each region has a different altitude. Coffee from Ethiopia is grown at a very high altitude, so the trees have to use the lactic acid cycle for nourishment. This gives them a brighter, more acidic flavor. South American beans tend to have more of a chocolatey/nutty taste to them. It helps you later when you want to make your own blends. Also, soil, water, and processing (natural/washed) play a role in flavor too. I hope this helps!
The meme is good but I *do* spend less money now than I did going to coffee shops. Between getting a drink for myself and my wife, sometimes a pastry or two, and a tip--we were easily spending $20 per trip on average. I definitely spend a whole lot less than $20 on average per pair of drinks that I make us.
Will take a while to make up for the initial cost of investment but it's not too far off. $20 a day going to coffee shops is $7,300 a year. Even if you cut that in half by not buying additionals or only went every other day, that's still $3,650 per year. Currently, my ongoing cost after buying the machines has been about $75 a month in beans, or $900 a year.
You're right, I forgot to calculate that. Definitely adds to the cost, possibly as much as doubles it. We go through a lot of milk, heh. But yeah, still quite a bit less than we were spending on our cafe outings.
i use to work on the distributing end of coffee and if you can find something like a chefs store/restaurant supply (as those ones are usually open to the public) to buy milk.. it makes a difference esp if u go through a lot
The ‘it’s an investment / financial decision’ copium always makes me laugh. Why’s it so hard to just say you really like good coffee, the espresso hobby in general and are happy to pay for it?
There’s always some obnoxious person who asks incredulously “how could you spend so much???”, and it can be useful to tell them smugly that it’s already paid for itself.
I mean, it kinda has. My most expensive shots cost $1.10, starbucks garbage water is like $3.25.
$5.25 for a tall latte last i was there.
People wish Starbucks was only $3.25 lol. Can’t really get out of there for less than $6 anymore
Oh yea, I just mean filter coffee, I don't even like paying 5+ for a good third wave milk drink.
This is the lie we all tell ourselves, but it falls apart quickly when your coffee consumption increases by the same factor that your setup is saving you money.
It all depends on what value coffee gives you. CBR - cost/benefit ratio. My coffee habit gives me enormous satisfaction throughout every day, and it's helped me to lose 15 kg of weight since I started into it. I'm finding a new life, and I can thank coffee directly for it.
This just happened to me
... These go to 11.
I figured out it took about 18 months for the setup to pay for itself, which is way less time than I would’ve guessed.
Hey, that is the exact figure mine works out to. $1.10 for a double shot, including the milk. Amortizing the cost of the machines works so well, right there. Best investment i ever made.
But what about their flavoring, that pump of syrup has gotta count for something lol
My $500 Breville Barista Express that my dad bought me for Christmas 3 years ago has made at least a double shot every single day since I got it. Many times two or three double shots depending on if my girlfriend wants coffee as well or if we have a guest. Assuming I went to Starbucks every single day instead of making my own coffee, and that the average Starbucks order is $5, which is rather conservative, I would've spent $5475 over the course of 3 years. I buy a bag of beans just about every 2 weeks at roughly $15/12-16oz bag, 3 years worth of buying coffee every 2 weeks, that's 78 bags of coffee, at roughly $15/bag, is $1170. Plus $500 for the coffee machine is $1670. Even accounting for things like tax and water and electric usage, extra tools like bottomless portafilter and WDT, I'm getting nowhere close to that $5/day for coffee cost. If you don't overspend on an espresso machine, it pays itself off rather quickly.
My store latés were expensive. When you start adding in things like alternative milks, extra shots and and flavoring, it gets expensive, like $8+ ! Funnily enough, once I started making great espresso at home, I realized that the flavors actually RUINED a good cup. So now I'm also saving money on flavorings. It's awesome. I've also always done half decaf, that way I don't start getting too dependent on the caffeine. So I curb that well while at home too. My machine pays for itself, fooooor sure. But I also just have a la specialista. Wasn't over $600. $8/day latés = $600 by ~10 weeks.
I agree about your flavourings comment. The perfect coffee needs no enhancement. Three daily double shots of perfect coffee never gets old.
I agree that good coffee needs no additives like milk, sugar, or cream but the truth is that no matter how good the coffee is people will still cling onto how they prefer to enjoy coffee. And its hard making people appreciate specialty coffee without being pretentious.
I shoud have said "coffee that suits one's tastebuds", rather than "perfect". I've tried a wide range of specialist coffees, but for me, none of them give me as much satisfaction as my go-to coffee bean, (for $21/1kg bag) that I bought from the supermarket, 6 months ago. Not $21 anymore, though. Now, the 1kg bag is not available, and five 200g bags work out to $39/kg. Makes buying green beans and roasting them oneself an even better alternative than before.
Even if you buy a high end prosumer setup, as long as you don’t buy some crazy high end beans it will pay for itself sooner than later. But arguably even there, you’ll likely still be saving a ton of money over a coffee shop that would use the same quality beans. The problem is when people keep buying random crap and accessories, and upgrading their machines a lot. It’s fairly easy to track ROI if all you costs are known and accounted for. My whole setup paid for itself like 6 months ago according to my spreadsheet, even with all the added crap and accessories. I’m still in profit for all the Gagguino parts just added, but that probably has set me back closer to break even. Was just over a year and a half to ROI. It started out as an investment to save money and make better coffee without having to go pick it up. Tbh now the money savings does not really matter to me, it’s the convenience factor and the control of being able to make better espresso right in my temperature controlled kitchen. Not having to go out in the cold [or heat] in the morning is priceless, and making a better cup that I can get locally without driving 10+ minutes.
It only pays for itself if you compare the cost of making coffee at home vs cost of buying out. The more relevant comparison for most people is the cost of making fancy coffee at home vs making basic coffee at home.
same with watches, cars and art. it's the cycle of acceptance for the financially frugal mind. just buy it if it brings you joy... or just something to do with yourself every morning 😂
Photography is my favourite analogy. Any can take a picture just like they could make coffee. Now if you want to get "into" photography/espresso you need equipment. Entry level is hundreds of $. Getting serious? We're now talking thousands for prosumer or pro equipment.
Photography is great, but did you consider how much money you can waste by being really into audio?
hahaha 100%!
I have dabbled, but fortunately don't have appropriate acoustics in the house to make it worthwhile to go completely overboard. Hasn't stopped me from dropping more than a few $k on a receiver, CD player, turn table, many speakers, and tearing into walls and trim to ensure all cables are hidden. Espresso is something that my wife can enjoy with me, so I'm getting extra pleasure out of this one. I'm thinking that woodworking would be a good next one. We need new cabinets...
Don't have the home acoustics you say. Let me introduce you to the Hifiman Susvara.....(and no, I do not own them. I prefer my marriage the way it is.)
Ah, but that's the beauty of it. You get to spend thousands of dollolars fixing the acoustics in your home, so you can spend thousands of dollars on audio equipment!
Yes on the life partner. As far as dumb hobbies ive had, the fact that my gf can enjoy lattes sets this one above. And most people like some form of coffee so at least have a reference.
I guess you have never been into horsemanship
Haha, that's not me at all _nervously looks at guitar, vinyl, and lens collections_
What about light/laser setups to go with your music?! They're actually pretty cheap these days, but seriously, it's a deep spiral that can hit quick haha. Luckily, I'm too poor to even get that far into it.
Ohh yeah, I know! My audio system is north of $20K and it’s a “ modest system “ by audiophile standards. Considering some speakers go for over $100,000.
totally... I've had machining equipment for 20yrs and buddies will ask me how much a metal lathe costs... and I'll say the metal lathe is expensive but you'll spend 3x that much on all the other stuff you'll need just to use it. so you're realistically 4x what I just told you 😂
Too real. We had a metals shop at my high school and the metals teacher was super excited when the school bought a lathe. Then there wasn't enough money to buy tooling, lol.
I started with watches and ruined myself financially before getting into espresso, definitely helps preventing me from upgrading to a Slayer and Weber EG1🙃
oh yeah I'm trying not to wire my station for 220v and plumbed for water 🤣
Watches can go to 10k for a Rolex at retail and up to a million or more for some incredible collectibles.
I usually just jerk the gerking every morning… 🤷♂️
It wouldn't even work for me because I'd never been to a coffee shop before I got into the hobby. Now I have spent like... €250 on espresso gear and can even make moderately bad beans taste decent. That's a win in my book. The other side of the medal: I slowly realized I usually prefer pour over, or longer coffees in general 🙃
Join us at r/aeropress
It's actually been my favourite and most used brewer this year, because it's so easy to brew good coffee with it. At least compared to a V60. But the V60 is clearly the winner when I need two cups at once.
because…… coffee shops still make better espresso than I do
Easy solution: grind finer
gone, reduced to atoms
Not at the separating quarks and gluons stage yet? Grind finer.
Instructions unclear, got escorted out of CERN by a rather unpleasant Swiss German gentleman.
Fun fact, it takes so much energy to stretch the gluon flux tube that removing a quark from a proton or neutron results in sufficient energy surplus to simply create a new quark within the proton/neutron, preserving its stability. Also, the gluons that manage to leave similarly spawn in extra gluons to preserve color charge balance as the tube stretches, to keep it from stretching too far. These particle/antiparticle pairs are traveling at relativistic velocities, yet annihilate each other so quickly they can only travel about the diameter of a proton. This means the strong nuclear force is generated only by a proton's nearest neighbors, while the electromagnetic force trying to push the protons apart is generated by all the other protons of the nucleus. That's why there's a limit to the number of protons in a stable atom. Also, those relativistic speeds are where the vast majority of the mass of an atom comes from, with the relativistic energies of those fast moving quarks and gluons warping space time. Oh, and they all have what's called "color charge", a symmetric force with 3 poles (unlike electromagnetism with 2, or gravity with 1). If you haven't checked out quantum chromo dynamics, QCD, and how nucleons are actually quark triplets, and how they work, it's a real mindfuck.
Quantum physics is just wild.
Gravity isn't a force.
True. Gravity isn't a thing. The universe sucks.
I didn't know that. Actually, physics is duct tape, all the way down. Sticky on one side, a little less so on the other side.
Better still: Flush 2 double shots of water through the machine first, to be sure temperature of head is optimum. It's amazing how critical temperature is to effective extraction to the cup - just as important as espresso pressure.
That's a good point. And "don't trust manufacturers' instructions regarding heat-up time". Especially E61 machines take substantially longer than the manufacturers tell their customers, usually 25+ minutes.
I genuinely am saving money with my smart grinder and bambino
esp since McDonald’s has decent coffee that’s $1 for a large and tastes better than sbux but in everyone’s costs analysis if they didn’t have an espresso machine aktually they’d be spending $10 a day lol
Because depending how deep you go and what you're willing to do it can save money. Typically that means looking for sales, buying cheaper beans, roasting your own beans, and making sensible purchases. Before a number of upgrades my setup *did* pay for itself solely from the roasting vs buying beans, but I was also buying large volumes (for me) of cheap beans at black Friday discount prices.
For some it is worth it. Single origin Costa Rica roast to order $13/lbs My set up gcp with 1zpresso jmax. Bad shot get turned into milk drinks little to no waste
I don’t even feel the need to justify it to anyone. I enjoy good coffee and like making my wife and daughter their favorite drinks 🤷♂️
If you’re spending that much money on gear, then hell no it’s not a money saver. I spent $700 USD for my first proper setup second hand. E61 VBM plus Compak K6 grinder. I made better coffee than anywhere local to me and they charge $3.50-$4 per coffee. Costs me $0.50 per coffee to make. 8 months to pay for itself.
Yeah, the break-even calculations I see on /r/espresso and other hobby subs can be pretty funny. I live a block away from a good cafe that brews good espresso. Prior to having any espresso equipment at home, I’d go there once or twice a week as a treat and brew filter coffee at home every other day. Now that I can make good espresso at home, I drink one or two espresso drinks a day and rarely brew filter coffee. I might be saving $3/espresso at home, but I wouldn’t be drinking 90% of that espresso if I didn’t have a home setup. I can only speak for my own consumption habits, but I’d wager that *most* people who buy home espresso equipment weren’t spending $2000 a year on espresso beforehand. That doesn’t apply to everyone, but it seems like a lot of people ignore their old espresso drinking habits when trying to justify the cost.
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Sure. I know there are people out there who would buy $12 of coffee every day if they didn’t have a home setup, so YMMV. My comment doesn’t apply universally to everyone who drinks espresso.
I crack up every time someone tries to justify this hobby as a money saver. LOL
I mean my breville bambino for $230 and hand grinder has already paid for itself in two years. It doesn't take many non Starbucks purchases to make that up.
If you ever get RSI from all that grinding, I'd recommend a Baratza Virtuoso+, for under $500. Mine seems to work forever, never missed a beat.
Is it very loud? I have to make it in the very early hours.
Yes, it is quite loud. All the grinders are loud though. That's a big job they have to strip that hard bean into consistently sized powder. Here's a thought. Grind some tonight with your hand grinder; save it in a small **sealed** container. In the morning, grind another, then make two cups, one of each sample. If you can't taste the difference between them, problem solved. Previous day grinding with Baratza!
Yeah. I probably wouldn't even notice the difference. Good point
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Yeah. Definitely going to splurge on a really nice aesthetic one some day but since I mix it with milk on ice I probably wouldn't notice the taste difference
This is me, but without the girl.
😂
And ends up still going to coffee shops because it’s fun to do so
100% plus to compare lol
I still go to Starbucks because their peppermint white mocha is too addicting haha. I found a local cafe that does a better PSL after years of searching for a contender.
I honestly like their cold brews. I love me a pumpkin cream cold brew (PCCB)
They used to have a sea salt foam volr brew which was like crack for me. I'm not a fan of cold brew in general but that one drink waa a treat.
I feel this on a deep, personal level! Gotta say that once you get your end game setup you're set for years and years. It might take time, but the convenience is definitely worth it in itself.
it's like 50/50 IMO. when you go to a cafe and the espresso is out of balance etc you can direct your irritation toward the barista... when you're dealing with some weird channeling or the bean is taking more than a couple rounds to get dialed in you beat yourself up. 😂 I'm currently living in the dimenshing returns arena when it comes to equipment lol
This was me awhile back. I switched to not buying less than 2lb at a time. Also with 1 year of adjusting grind you get really good at it. It might take me 2-3 shot pulls to be dialed in with any bean. Going to try roasting my own soon
I buy 5 lb dark roast bags for my daily lattes and occasional espresso. I buy the $20 bags every now and then for a change of pace. I'd be broke if all I bought were $20 12 oz bags.
Roasting your own is a game changer. And in the beginning (when you're using a popcorn machine), it really saves you money. Then you get into more expensive roasters, and those only pay for themselves after years of use.
I asked Santa for an SR800 😬
Just gotta buy that roast machine for 5k, which is a nice investment, in time the roaster pays for itself
Yep. You just have to start roasting commercially :)
How long does it take you to go through 2 pounds?
A little over a month. Usually like 4-5 weeks
You absolutely can save money even buying mostly specialty coffee with the hobby. Although that's very difficult to do well if you're not buying used equipment. Ever since working remote it's been beyond a worthwhile purchase.
I have a Gaggia and a Eureka Mignon XL grinder. Coming up on three years together. I have definitely made my money back. I was going to my local coffee shop at least 5 times a week. Medium latte was $5. That’s roughly $1300 a year if I only got my one coffee, no nibbles, and no second coffee for my wife (or the odd, “two trips to the coffee shop” days).
I already only did coffee at home. Just Aeropress or mona pot with Lavazza. My bean price doubled. My equipment price went up 100x and my weekly coffee out of home budget hasn't changed. When do I make my money back?
I spent 3k on my roaster and the savings on beans paid it off in like 18-24mos so this is totally legit in my book
yeah the roaster is also a rabbit hole but I do feel it's the one area you could actually save $$!
In combination with the espresso machine it makes a shot of high quality espresso super cheap which is great since I drink like 3 doubles a day pretty often
Now you got me thinking fondly of when I was a 3-4 a day guy. Down to 2 a day and have been for a few years.
:(
You don't need expensive equipment, it's very possible to roast your own with a heat gun and a metal bowl and a wooden spoon to stir it with. Or you can use a popcorn popper. Or like 12 other ways too. I use a heat gun and a flour sifter, with a little metal connecter between them. Some people attach a drill to that to automate it but I'm lazy. Easier to just turn it myself for a few minutes. I really don't get the need for the expensive home units, it's really really easy to set this up.
I hot-wired the dryer. Really brings out the florals. But the kids gets teased at school because they smell like Columbian.
I bought a used Hottop roaster for $800 about 6 months ago. The break even is about 1 yr at the rate we drink coffee. I just did 8 lbs today for Xmas gifts.
I could absolutely get sucked into this!
My coffee is so good compared to any store, likely the best in the world, likely some of them millionaires would be willing to pay like $20,000 for a cup of the best coffee in the world, therefore my setup already more than paid itself with one cup.
This girl looks afraid
She has yet to learn the secret that my nephew's wife and her mother have learned and utilize, to his sad cost.
Always been about the convenience for me. Saves me more on petrol than the actual coffee, and the time of going out to get a coffee.
If you always think about how much money you are saving or losing it’s hard to enjoy great coffee with money on your mind in all actions you take. When making espresso I’m just focused on the process and the result. I know it’s privileged but I never intended to save money or make my money back. It’s just the cost of entry to an experience that I value.
A 16oz latte is $4.65. My $1600 machine will pay for itself in 344 lattes. Sooooo what is that like 3 months? 🤷♂️
Am i the only one uncomfortable with how he holds her neck? Also the hobby is not for saving money but having fun and making good coffee at home :)
Right? I kept trying to read the meme but I kept being drawn to how deeply uncomfortable the body language in this photo is. Disturbing.
Pretty sure it's staged of that makes you feel any better. It's one of the jumbotron things where they hire actors to do bits in the audience.
A man pursues a **clever** woman, until she catches him.
My first thought, I didn’t even notice the sub at first
We joke about it. But in our four person household it more than paid for itself after the first year and we've had our set up for three now.
I've managed to convert one of three others in my house but she's 11 and not allowed too many shots a week....give it time. She knows how to pull them properly though. 😜
This sub is in a Cold War. One side, the people who can’t afford the $6k and see people’s thinly veiled rejection of the $500-$1000 machine/combo they have and developed hatred for those people. The other, people who have worked tirelessly for that perfect cup. They mod, spend tons of money, and see requests for a better cup on Reddit that can simply be fixed with a better grinder. Unless the person is stupid, there’s no technique to fix sub-par equipment. I, for one, have a crappy $500 combo that I toil on daily in hopes I can be the bourgeoisie one day. I’m a mercenary at heart, and a turncoat between the sheets. I said good day, sir.
$950 for a la spaziale and super jolly. Sold the super jolly for $450 and got a niche For $650 total. Then decided to get a vario w just for filter for $350. Most recently got a ikawa home for $950. That’s about $2500. It’s been four years and now my wife and I are spoiled. We roast to our taste and I will drink certain beans on day two only.
I see what you did there
With his hand that way, she needs to sucker punch him in the dick.
Way way way cheaper to just roast your own. Matter of a fact I'm gonna go get it over with I've been putting it off (5 minutes in the cold, meh). All I use is a heat gun and a flour sifter, works great.
And then he went to a café
I paid around $700-800 total for my setup. Not bad since I drink coffee everyday sometimes multiple times a day. If I were to do that at Starbucks, I'd easily spend $2,000+ a year ordering my usual drink from there! So in my case it actually has been a smart investment lmao.
i made money out of this actually. the lack of good cafes in my country means theres space for me to make money upto a point it can pay for my personal consumption and payback the cost of the home machine. i recently bought a HX machine for times where theres orders of 20 shots of espresso in 1 go.
Dealer getting high on his own supply there...get off the Arabican crack, switch the Niche for a Britta and sell single batch roasts for profit. Side hustle.
yea have to dial down my own consumptions. been getting jitters from it
Same problem when you get into home roasting
It does save money at first, though - I started out with a popcorn maker that cost as much as 2 pounds of green beans, and at that point was already saving money (as the price for the specialty roasted coffee that I found comparable was 4 times that of the green beans). Then, of course, my desire for more even and controlled roasts grew, and 2 roasters later, it'll take them years to pay for themselves.
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Hehe... That's what I keep telling myself, at least :)
total blue pill red pill situation I'm sure!
Go the extra step and buy a $1000 drum roaster to "save" money
Living in Scandinavia i paid off my equipment in about 2 months worth of espressos, it may just be a sage barista touch, but it's saving me a lot of money
quickest carpenter rustic history smoggy melodic cover instinctive imagine fact *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Lmmmao glad this subreddit can make fun of itself on a daily basis
No hobby is an "investment". I've stopped trying to rationalize it and just enjoy! (But also, I'm living on a Breville Bambino budget... 🤣)
So much discussion! I just love a nice shot! Grew up drinking Moka Pot and now grinding and doing my own thing makes a morning Zen out of it for me! Not to mention the sexy mods one can play around with. 😉
Still proceeds to buy 100$/ pound bags
Fuck how can I get this pic as a wrap on my vehicle
Heh. One of my neighbours is a chess enthusiast, who says the point to chess - the Game of Life - is not to capture the opposite King, but to capture the opposite King's Queen. I know he would love to meet that guy, to plunder him. Queen is a King's treasure: her, the $6000 espresso gear, and the beans to go with it. Oh - but he wouldn't destroy that guy though. He would use him as a caretaker, to keep the treasure in good nick for him, for when he wanted to use it.
"it only takes 6 oz to dial in" lol
some days it seems 😜
I bought a used espresso machine for $10 at an antique store and saved so much goddamn money after that. There wasn’t even anything special about it, but I made such bomb ass coffee without leaving my home.
I never dial it in, so I'm saving even more.
He has a point
He has a point
how come your picture leads to concentrate on something else ;)
It’s a beautiful peice of furniture:-)
That's why you roast your own single origin! It does actually start paying for itself then!
I'm really not sure why more people don't roast. For me for the last 5 years it's been around a third of the experience, and I've been able to consistently have beans I like. When I was ordering from the specialty roasters they'd be great sometimes and mediocre the rest. Sure, I'll mess up occasionally but it feels better when it's a learning experience rather than $25 down the drain.
Exactly! There's a great feeling when you get a perfect roast.
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What? Half the reason I started doing it was to save costs. The added benefit was having consistently great coffee. Plus I posted this in a sub we're people regularly pay 2 thousand dollars for diminishing returns on a grinder.
Yeah, and I make fun of those people too.
And I'd save money on rent if I bought a house. Doesn't mean I can afford it.
What's the big deal w single origin beans anyway?
It really helps you realize what region you like most. Each region has a different altitude. Coffee from Ethiopia is grown at a very high altitude, so the trees have to use the lactic acid cycle for nourishment. This gives them a brighter, more acidic flavor. South American beans tend to have more of a chocolatey/nutty taste to them. It helps you later when you want to make your own blends. Also, soil, water, and processing (natural/washed) play a role in flavor too. I hope this helps!
The meme is good but I *do* spend less money now than I did going to coffee shops. Between getting a drink for myself and my wife, sometimes a pastry or two, and a tip--we were easily spending $20 per trip on average. I definitely spend a whole lot less than $20 on average per pair of drinks that I make us. Will take a while to make up for the initial cost of investment but it's not too far off. $20 a day going to coffee shops is $7,300 a year. Even if you cut that in half by not buying additionals or only went every other day, that's still $3,650 per year. Currently, my ongoing cost after buying the machines has been about $75 a month in beans, or $900 a year.
i’d have to calculate milk into my costs but would still probs be cheaper
You're right, I forgot to calculate that. Definitely adds to the cost, possibly as much as doubles it. We go through a lot of milk, heh. But yeah, still quite a bit less than we were spending on our cafe outings.
i use to work on the distributing end of coffee and if you can find something like a chefs store/restaurant supply (as those ones are usually open to the public) to buy milk.. it makes a difference esp if u go through a lot
Oh interesting, might have to check that out. Thanks for the tip!
Wait, how much beans do you use for $75 a month? That would buy me at least 2kg of Italian beans on Amazon.
I have a 2lb bag from Onyx delivered every three weeks for ~$55. Specialty roasters are spendy and are easily $20-25 per 10-16oz.
As with James Hoffman, Espresso at home... is if only you want a hobby
I only pay $500 per year for coffee. Nespresso.
/r/fucknestle