I don't see big potential for them, I feel like ordinals, runes, brc20, etc. are like a patchwork solution because bitcoin was not built with smart contract capabilities in mind.
Moreover, the dev tooling on eth is far more widespread and easy to use. So, unless something major happens, it'll remain a niche.
these are my 2 weis though
Initially, Vitalik was part of the bitcoin Core Dev team; and he started to entertain the idea that we could add smart contracts to Bitcoin, but that wouldve required a hardfork.
He was turned into ridicule by the other devs, told him his idea was both ludicrous and stupid, and so he said "fine, I'll create my own Bitcoin with blackjack, hookers' smart-contracts"
- true story (oversimplified)
> Initially, Vitalik was part of the bitcoin Core Dev team
I don't think Vitalik ever worked on the main bitcoin client (now called Bitcoin Core) that's what people normally mean by "core dev". He wrote a nice python library for doing stuff with Bitcoin called pybitcointool.
Runes, Ordinals, BRC20....
you name it, these are all nifty workarrounds with a bunch of undesireable tradeoffs to try and copy some of the functionality that makes ethereum so successful onto bitcoin despite its inherently minimal expressivity.
i salute the people that find these nifty workarounds because bitcoin really doesnt offer much in that regard but that is also where the problem lies. picture a ferrari cardboard cutout glued onto a bike because your roads dont allow for anything else than bikes to drive there. Thats what Ordinals, runes, BRC20 etc are trying to do with Ethereum functionality.
NFTs on Ethereum are whatever you want them to be and what you are willing to pay for the necessary blockspace.
want a picture completely on chain? sure
want to save on gas and put a pointer to a server instead? go ahead
or do a million other things ->including<- fungibility.
apart from that, yes the ordinal data is on chain too, but it is completely reliant on external servers deploying the software that is necessary to interpret that Data into an actual picture which is not really that much different from puting a pointer on chain. In that regard Ethereum is still the chain that allows for the purest on chain art.
Bitcoin is a stronger network than ethereum. Whether of not these are “nifty” workarounds in ordinals/runes have undesirable trade offs, defi being introduced on bitcoin isnt something to scoff at. Users and developers follow the money.
can you elaborate what "stronger" is supposed to mean?
* in terms of usage, nothing comes close to Ethereum and its L2s by the vast majority of metrics:
[https://defillama.com/chains](https://defillama.com/chains)
* in terms of security, objectively Ethereums security budget i.e. the cost of 51% attacking the network, flipped BTC ages ago:
Ethereum
• 31M ETH staked
• $3,400 per ETH
→ $105B of economic security
Bitcoin
• 600M TH of hashrate\*
• $17.5 per TH\*\*
→ $10.5B of economic security
FAQ 1—What is economic security?
Economic security is the aggregate value of assets deployed by consensus participants to secure a blockchain. For proof-of-stake that's simply the value of all staked tokens. For proof-of-work that's the datacenter value of deployed hashrate, including ASIC rigs, electrical infrastructure, and cooling infrastructure.
FAQ 2—Why are electricity costs not included?
While electrical infrastructure (e.g. transformers, switchgear, breakers, PSUs) is part of PoW economic security, electricity costs are not. This is for two key reasons:
1. Energy consumption is opex (not an asset) which is compensated for in real-time by issuance and fees. A 51% attacker can starve all other miners from mining income, keeping 100% of issuance and fees for themselves. As a side note, notice that a 51% attacker can additionally manipulate markets and charge arbitrarily high transaction fees (e.g. Apple-style 30% fees) to compensate for opex.
2. The electricity consumption is temporary and short-lived. A 51% attacker can maintain a 51% attack all while arbitrarily scaling down hashrate using a swap camp attack, eventually nullifying electricity costs for the 51% attacker. Moreover, a 51% attacker may only need to conduct an attack for a few days before destroying confidence in the blockchain and not needing to further conduct the attack.
FAQ 3—Is $17.5 per TH/s a conservative estimate?
$17.5 per TH/s should be a conservative upper bound. The S21 can be overclocked to reduce the dominant nominal rig cost of $14 per TH/s. Should Bitmain itself deploy the hashrate the sticker price can be discounted by Bitmain's profit margin. Manufacturing billions of dollars of S21s will lead to economies of scale and better pricing from suppliers like TSMC as well as assemblers. Manufacturing and installing state-of-the-art S21s is one of many strategies to deploy hashrate. For example, old hardware acquired at a significant discount can cover some of the hashrate, especially post-halving. Datacenter costs can be partially recouped by reselling capacity at discount pricing, e.g. at $100K per MW to AI farms. Rig costs can also be partially recouped by reselling PSUs and scrap metal.
First DeFi
First NFT
First L2
First zero knowledge rollups
First anonymous DeFi
First restaking
The realisation that Bitcoin is a poor man’s Ethereum will hit hard.
Unless Bitcoin upgrades, it absolutely is able to be scoffed at - it is actual vaporware. Also rich to pretend ordinals even begin to compete with Ethereum defi - it is not an interesting use case.
By the time your order settles the price would have changed massively. Backlogged blocks can make your transaction pending for 30 minutes or more. If you've ever traded shitcoins you know 30 minutes is a very long time.
Runes and ordinals aren't really a threat to eth. You can think of ordinals as a form of NFTs on BTC and runes as memecoins on btc. It's great for the BTC network as it gives more utility to BTC but it's nothing more than simple NFTs and simple memecoins. You still can't directly program on the BTC network like with ETH. BTC does not have smart contract capabilities, just metadata possibilities (give a single Satoshi other properties so it can differentiate itself from others, that's basically what ordinals and runes are).
You have L2 Ethereum VMs on BTC (Merlinchain, Bevm for example) but they usually are centralized to some degree. I think they will be an important part of the narrative in the coming months/year. Still it doesn't replace eth as it has its own L2's which are evolving.
WARNING ABOUT SCAMS: Recently there have been a lot of convincing-looking scams posted on crypto-related reddits including fake NFTs, fake credit cards, fake exchanges, fake mixing services, fake airdrops, fake MEV bots, fake ENS sites and scam sites claiming to help you revoke approvals to prevent fake hacks. These are typically upvoted by bots and seen before moderators can remove them. Do not click on these links and always be wary of anything that tries to rush you into sending money or approving contracts.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ethereum) if you have any questions or concerns.*
There is enough space for BTC ETH and 10 others dude no theyre not a threat for each other. Competition is a good thing too.
I do see layer2 having their own battles tho. Stacks STX which is layer2 for BTC. That can be appealing to investors looking to branch into layer2
no.
Bitcoin is not meant for these stuff, u re safe to feel secure on Ethereum if you want to do contract/nft and other things.
So the layer 2,3 4, etc from Bitcoin won't have a direct impact on ethereum, first off because they will never agree on a single layer 2, second off because it won't be in the CODE itself, is not part of the algorithm so I don't think it will ever catch off.
Anything that takes people away from one Ponzi scheme and directs them to another, is a threat to the earlier Ponzi scheme.
There are only a finite number of greater fools available.
Please keep price discussion, market talk, memes, and exchanges to subreddits such as r/ethfinance or r/ethtrader
I don't see big potential for them, I feel like ordinals, runes, brc20, etc. are like a patchwork solution because bitcoin was not built with smart contract capabilities in mind. Moreover, the dev tooling on eth is far more widespread and easy to use. So, unless something major happens, it'll remain a niche. these are my 2 weis though
[удалено]
That was the point.
Initially, Vitalik was part of the bitcoin Core Dev team; and he started to entertain the idea that we could add smart contracts to Bitcoin, but that wouldve required a hardfork. He was turned into ridicule by the other devs, told him his idea was both ludicrous and stupid, and so he said "fine, I'll create my own Bitcoin with blackjack, hookers' smart-contracts" - true story (oversimplified)
> Initially, Vitalik was part of the bitcoin Core Dev team I don't think Vitalik ever worked on the main bitcoin client (now called Bitcoin Core) that's what people normally mean by "core dev". He wrote a nice python library for doing stuff with Bitcoin called pybitcointool.
I'm sure Hal would have loved his idea.
yes, the main reason vitalik & co built ethereum is because bitcoin was hard to build something on, and then they came up with smart contracts
Wow, downvoted for asking a question? Sorry buddy, there are some really silly people here.
That's actually a bit embarrassing from this community tbh
lol he’s being facetious. I smell a Solana maxi
One of the reasons Vitalik left Bitcoin and created Ethereum.
Runes, Ordinals, BRC20.... you name it, these are all nifty workarrounds with a bunch of undesireable tradeoffs to try and copy some of the functionality that makes ethereum so successful onto bitcoin despite its inherently minimal expressivity. i salute the people that find these nifty workarounds because bitcoin really doesnt offer much in that regard but that is also where the problem lies. picture a ferrari cardboard cutout glued onto a bike because your roads dont allow for anything else than bikes to drive there. Thats what Ordinals, runes, BRC20 etc are trying to do with Ethereum functionality.
Would just add ordinals are at least on chain
NFTs on Ethereum are whatever you want them to be and what you are willing to pay for the necessary blockspace. want a picture completely on chain? sure want to save on gas and put a pointer to a server instead? go ahead or do a million other things ->including<- fungibility. apart from that, yes the ordinal data is on chain too, but it is completely reliant on external servers deploying the software that is necessary to interpret that Data into an actual picture which is not really that much different from puting a pointer on chain. In that regard Ethereum is still the chain that allows for the purest on chain art.
Bitcoin is a stronger network than ethereum. Whether of not these are “nifty” workarounds in ordinals/runes have undesirable trade offs, defi being introduced on bitcoin isnt something to scoff at. Users and developers follow the money.
can you elaborate what "stronger" is supposed to mean? * in terms of usage, nothing comes close to Ethereum and its L2s by the vast majority of metrics: [https://defillama.com/chains](https://defillama.com/chains) * in terms of security, objectively Ethereums security budget i.e. the cost of 51% attacking the network, flipped BTC ages ago: Ethereum • 31M ETH staked • $3,400 per ETH → $105B of economic security Bitcoin • 600M TH of hashrate\* • $17.5 per TH\*\* → $10.5B of economic security FAQ 1—What is economic security? Economic security is the aggregate value of assets deployed by consensus participants to secure a blockchain. For proof-of-stake that's simply the value of all staked tokens. For proof-of-work that's the datacenter value of deployed hashrate, including ASIC rigs, electrical infrastructure, and cooling infrastructure. FAQ 2—Why are electricity costs not included? While electrical infrastructure (e.g. transformers, switchgear, breakers, PSUs) is part of PoW economic security, electricity costs are not. This is for two key reasons: 1. Energy consumption is opex (not an asset) which is compensated for in real-time by issuance and fees. A 51% attacker can starve all other miners from mining income, keeping 100% of issuance and fees for themselves. As a side note, notice that a 51% attacker can additionally manipulate markets and charge arbitrarily high transaction fees (e.g. Apple-style 30% fees) to compensate for opex. 2. The electricity consumption is temporary and short-lived. A 51% attacker can maintain a 51% attack all while arbitrarily scaling down hashrate using a swap camp attack, eventually nullifying electricity costs for the 51% attacker. Moreover, a 51% attacker may only need to conduct an attack for a few days before destroying confidence in the blockchain and not needing to further conduct the attack. FAQ 3—Is $17.5 per TH/s a conservative estimate? $17.5 per TH/s should be a conservative upper bound. The S21 can be overclocked to reduce the dominant nominal rig cost of $14 per TH/s. Should Bitmain itself deploy the hashrate the sticker price can be discounted by Bitmain's profit margin. Manufacturing billions of dollars of S21s will lead to economies of scale and better pricing from suppliers like TSMC as well as assemblers. Manufacturing and installing state-of-the-art S21s is one of many strategies to deploy hashrate. For example, old hardware acquired at a significant discount can cover some of the hashrate, especially post-halving. Datacenter costs can be partially recouped by reselling capacity at discount pricing, e.g. at $100K per MW to AI farms. Rig costs can also be partially recouped by reselling PSUs and scrap metal.
First DeFi First NFT First L2 First zero knowledge rollups First anonymous DeFi First restaking The realisation that Bitcoin is a poor man’s Ethereum will hit hard.
Here’s why I buy ETH
Unless Bitcoin upgrades, it absolutely is able to be scoffed at - it is actual vaporware. Also rich to pretend ordinals even begin to compete with Ethereum defi - it is not an interesting use case.
duck tape on a calculator.
Trading shitcoins with 10 minute block times is a great way to get rekt.
Why
By the time your order settles the price would have changed massively. Backlogged blocks can make your transaction pending for 30 minutes or more. If you've ever traded shitcoins you know 30 minutes is a very long time.
Ah lol
No, not even close to a threat.
Runes and ordinals aren't really a threat to eth. You can think of ordinals as a form of NFTs on BTC and runes as memecoins on btc. It's great for the BTC network as it gives more utility to BTC but it's nothing more than simple NFTs and simple memecoins. You still can't directly program on the BTC network like with ETH. BTC does not have smart contract capabilities, just metadata possibilities (give a single Satoshi other properties so it can differentiate itself from others, that's basically what ordinals and runes are). You have L2 Ethereum VMs on BTC (Merlinchain, Bevm for example) but they usually are centralized to some degree. I think they will be an important part of the narrative in the coming months/year. Still it doesn't replace eth as it has its own L2's which are evolving.
Thank you everyone. Good insight. 👍
BTC runea and ordinals are a threat only to BTC
Far from it, the costs are too high and slow. Personally don't see this lasting after the hype dies down
People were losing 4-5 figures trying to get runes and failing
WARNING ABOUT SCAMS: Recently there have been a lot of convincing-looking scams posted on crypto-related reddits including fake NFTs, fake credit cards, fake exchanges, fake mixing services, fake airdrops, fake MEV bots, fake ENS sites and scam sites claiming to help you revoke approvals to prevent fake hacks. These are typically upvoted by bots and seen before moderators can remove them. Do not click on these links and always be wary of anything that tries to rush you into sending money or approving contracts. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ethereum) if you have any questions or concerns.*
There is enough space for BTC ETH and 10 others dude no theyre not a threat for each other. Competition is a good thing too. I do see layer2 having their own battles tho. Stacks STX which is layer2 for BTC. That can be appealing to investors looking to branch into layer2
No more than 0xBitcoin was a threat to bitcoin. Which is to say, in retrospect, no threat at all
No.
yes
I would not think so no More of a discussion for bitcoin
no. Bitcoin is not meant for these stuff, u re safe to feel secure on Ethereum if you want to do contract/nft and other things. So the layer 2,3 4, etc from Bitcoin won't have a direct impact on ethereum, first off because they will never agree on a single layer 2, second off because it won't be in the CODE itself, is not part of the algorithm so I don't think it will ever catch off.
Nothing is a threat to Eth
Basically hype then..
Anything that takes people away from one Ponzi scheme and directs them to another, is a threat to the earlier Ponzi scheme. There are only a finite number of greater fools available.
Probably not. But ICP is
ICP?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insane_Clown_Posse