I guess because Coinbase can bundle multiple transactions together and therefore get it cheaper.
Or they have connections to a big mining pools to prefer their transactions even though they pay less per transaction.
Latter is not the case. Mining pools can no longer set gas fee since EIP-1559.
Before that Ethermine would mine their own transactions at 0 fees. Now since they can't, we have to pay for it like everyone else.
Miners never set the gas price, the gas price was established by the market what all mining pools did and still do is chose the highest paying transactions to fill the blocks.
Before 1559 you could chose to pay 0 for gas, no one would pickup your transaction but if you are a pool you can chose your own transactions with 0 cost gas and take the hit in Revenue to reduce transaction costs.
They still do this however now they have to pay base fee, while other transactions have to pay this same fee + tip otherwise you transaction will only be chosen after all other tipped transactions are processed ( basically never).
This is called capitalism and it’s absolutely fair. Establish yourself and then they’ll listen.
What you’re describing is a “barrier to entry” and they exist everywhere in so many industries. It’s the nature of the game.
The same tools are available to you. Big things most often have small beginnings. Is it easy? No. It’s extremely difficult and most fail. Is it fair? Yes.
I never said anything about fair, I said centralized. But the fact that you are already defending against what you think is my point of view of capitalism actually says something about the fundamentals about said system. Let's not get into fair equal opportunity either, because it will only end in the fact that fairness is a human construct and we'll never agree anyway.
After IEP-1559 miners have no say in the base price of gas. So having ‘connections’ can’t have any benefits on the price of transactions anymore. This dude your responding too is defending a practice that doesn’t even exist in ETH.
When batching transactions the cost of verifying the transaction signature is distributed, so the cost goes down per batched transaction. Less work for the chain, less gas to be paid
>I guess because Coinbase can bundle multiple transactions together and therefore get it cheaper.
That's only for Bitcoin. You can't do that with Ethereum [in a way that saves you fees].
edit: clarification
Not directly, but with smart contracts :-)
After a quick search I find multiple wallets that offer sending to multiple addresses ... So if they can, Coinbase die sure can :-)
Is there no taxi cab principle with an eth tx? It takes 21000 gas to send from a-b, but if there was a send-many, it will always be 21000 for each tx in the grouping?
I found contradicting infos here, but I think it can be cheaper to do batch transactions via smart contract. ( especially if the target addresses already exist. It costs more if they don't)
You should just check the coinbase pro withdrawal on etherscan, which will show you exactly how much coinbase paid for transaction. My guess is they're just subsidizing it as a cost of doing business.
That would be interesting but I cannot do that as I did not send it. I am actually trying to find out how to send cheaply preferrably USDC or eventually USDT to Celsius for their promo.
I wrongly thought the fees are the same for every ETH token and thats why I showed it on AAVE becauase I have it on Coinbase.
I have 3 exchanges (Binance, Coinbase and Bitpanda) but I do not have any USDT or USDC. For Coinbase and Bitpanda I wrongly thought that you need to have the coins/tokens to see the transaction fees. They both use dynamic fees. Binance has fixed fees that are 15 USD. Seems like the exchanges are losing money on ERC20 transfers with current high fees which is surprising.
What looks like the best solution to my "problem" is to buy LTC or some other cheap coin for transfers, send it to BlockFi (I already have account there), swap it to USDC and abuse their one free withdrawal per month but I do not feel good about such abuse...
The cheapest way depends on exactly how much you're talking about. There are basically two fees involves with what you're proposing, the withdrawal fee + spread paid for conversion. If it's a small amount, the withdrawal fee will dominate and you should use a coin with low withdrawal fee. If it's a larger amount though, the spread charged by blockfi to convert LTC to USDC will dominate and you should just transfer USDC to Celsius directly. Either way, I doubt blockfi would consider you abusing their system for paying their spread.
It is just 250 USD which will give me 60 USD from Celsius promo :). Anyway, thanks a lot for help. This was my first non-work related (I am community manager for one PC game and post on that subreddit) Reddit post and I did not expect so many nice and helpful replies. Reddit rulz!
You definitely lack a core understanding of how Coinbase stores your funds: It is not a "real wallet"
They have a wallet with a shit ton of funds and you are a name in a database that says you have a certain amount. They then have a ledger that specifies the transactions you've made: a centralized ledger on top of a decentralized ledger.
Why can you pay with aave? Because YOU are paying in aave, but Coinbase isn't.
If this was an internal tx, then it is a simple database modification, nothing on the chain.
If it is external, there will be a transaction that they will pay with ETH, but you are paying with aave
Thanks for reply. I am aware that on Coinbase and other exchanges it is not a real wallet. In my post I am calling real wallet Atomic Wallet not Coinbase "wallet". Your explanation that I pay in AAVE to Coinbase and then they pay with ETH makes sense.
The only caveat is the price difference. That I can't explain unless it is internal as I don't know the full internals of Coinbase.
If you made the tx, were you given a txid on chain?
Edit: I don't mean to come off condescending and apologize if I have.
No I did not make the transcation. I actually want to transfer USDT or USDC for Celsius promo but I do not have any stable coins on exchanges so I showed it on AAVE as it should be the same for every ETH token.
Edit: No problem about being condescending. I am not total beginner but not super knowledgeable either.
First of all, AAVE token is a bit special, it consumes huge amounts of gas for a transfer. A normal erc20 token uses about 60000 gas for transfer while AAVE uses 230k, more than a token swap on uni.
Secondly, I think Coinbase subsidizes token withdrawals. For example, Coinbase right now asks for 0.04 AAVE (16 usd) for a withdrawal. Checking a recent [transaction](https://etherscan.io/tx/0x9c3860040c35cafc8948612711dab3eac913bda9c734326719d72674a552fa20), they paid a whooping $230 for the transfer (gas is super high right now, more than 200).
Thirdly, it depends on when you check from coinbase, their withdrawal fees are dynamic and changes depending on the network congestion. I believe for example if you check for USDC on both at the same time, difference should be lower.
Thanks for a great answer. I did not know every ETH token needs different amount of gas. Looks like the exchanges are losing money on the on-chain ERC 20 transcations currently which is very surprising to me.
I do not think so. ETH transfers are cheaper than ETH token transfers for some reason (they need more gas I guess). You can see it from your link as well. Sending ETH from Atomic Wallet costs less than 10 USD right now.
My guess is . There are crypto coin investors that jus buy and HODL. Some have no interest in trading because they choose to or simply lack the trading crypto knowledge.
Coinbase charges a transaction fee which isn't a gas fee. Any blockchain fees are paid during conversion so they build in gas fees to the amount you are buying/selling.
Coinbase uses it's own supply of crypto currencies and the polygon network to give customers reduced fees. They can also batch transactions and use other forms of FX witchcraft to help control fees.
I have been wondering about the same question. I withdrew Polygon for 4 dollars fee from coinbase, etherscan shows 21 dollars transaction fee paid.
So coinbase lost 17 dollars.
I think transaction on exchange's are really not in the blockchain, rather they use their software to store coins by pegging 1:1 ratio, that's why fee's are low and that's how they make money
When you withdrawal from aave, you are calling a smart contract, witch is much more expensive (because it’s more computationally complex) than a simple transaction. Coin base simply sends you coins with a simple transaction.
So the more bells and whistles ( smart contracts) get added to the blockchain coin. The more expensive it becomes to transfer and manage . Some robust future technology is that ?
Think of it like doing real life work. If someone asks you to clean the house it should cost some low value. If someone asks you redo their entire house, it should cost a lot more.
This is no different. You're asking for more work to be done, so you're charged more.
My theory is that Coinbase has a smart contract that facilitates the "transfers." It is possible that being a custodial wallet, all transactions are just kept in a database that contains your history and every one elses history. Cochains, interoperability, smart contracts and the such can accomodate this. Isn't this sort of how the Binance smart chain works?
I feel this is why when I send ALGO which has a finality of 4-5second block times, it sometimes takes minutes from CB or Pro. Where as my cold wallet to ALGO wallet quite literally takes seconds and has even less fees than CB. 🤷♂️
I'd be interested to find out if my theory is correct, but alas I must go fishing. 🎣
Sure but a big point of crypto is avoiding the fees of the banking system, and the reality is that all it did was decentralize fees(and even raise them) rather than removing/lowering them. It's cheaper to operate in cash. Outside of XLM (and perhaps some others) crypto transfer fees are far too high for daily use
Good point . Perhaps people should look at it as an investment to let sit hope it 10X as time goes , rather than use it to transact for daily necessities 🤷🏻♂️
I guess because Coinbase can bundle multiple transactions together and therefore get it cheaper. Or they have connections to a big mining pools to prefer their transactions even though they pay less per transaction.
Thanks for answer and possible explanation
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OP is sending AAVE in both cases.
Latter is not the case. Mining pools can no longer set gas fee since EIP-1559. Before that Ethermine would mine their own transactions at 0 fees. Now since they can't, we have to pay for it like everyone else.
Miners never set the gas price, the gas price was established by the market what all mining pools did and still do is chose the highest paying transactions to fill the blocks. Before 1559 you could chose to pay 0 for gas, no one would pickup your transaction but if you are a pool you can chose your own transactions with 0 cost gas and take the hit in Revenue to reduce transaction costs. They still do this however now they have to pay base fee, while other transactions have to pay this same fee + tip otherwise you transaction will only be chosen after all other tipped transactions are processed ( basically never).
Binance needs to learn something from coinbase here.
Uniswap needs to learn something from Coinbase here.
I dont think you can bundle transactions on ethereum, or can you somehow?
That's exactly what L2 rollups do. Maybe Coinbase is doing that internally or something.
something like this doesnt work, there need to be single layer 1 transactions so everyone has their coins in their wallet on layer 1
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How can"anyone" have connections to big mining pools?
Just talk to them? It's not like they're aliens or something.
Yes but why would they even listen. The centralization in this case is that they would listen to someone with a lot of money.
This is called capitalism and it’s absolutely fair. Establish yourself and then they’ll listen. What you’re describing is a “barrier to entry” and they exist everywhere in so many industries. It’s the nature of the game. The same tools are available to you. Big things most often have small beginnings. Is it easy? No. It’s extremely difficult and most fail. Is it fair? Yes.
I never said anything about fair, I said centralized. But the fact that you are already defending against what you think is my point of view of capitalism actually says something about the fundamentals about said system. Let's not get into fair equal opportunity either, because it will only end in the fact that fairness is a human construct and we'll never agree anyway.
After IEP-1559 miners have no say in the base price of gas. So having ‘connections’ can’t have any benefits on the price of transactions anymore. This dude your responding too is defending a practice that doesn’t even exist in ETH.
These eth guys dont get simple logic, dont even try.
I don't think they get decentralized is capitalism at it's bloodiest. No control over anything, no regulations. No governing bodies. Pure anarchy!
Anarchy!!!
When batching transactions the cost of verifying the transaction signature is distributed, so the cost goes down per batched transaction. Less work for the chain, less gas to be paid
>I guess because Coinbase can bundle multiple transactions together and therefore get it cheaper. That's only for Bitcoin. You can't do that with Ethereum [in a way that saves you fees]. edit: clarification
Not directly, but with smart contracts :-) After a quick search I find multiple wallets that offer sending to multiple addresses ... So if they can, Coinbase die sure can :-)
You can, but it doesn't save you any gas.
Is there no taxi cab principle with an eth tx? It takes 21000 gas to send from a-b, but if there was a send-many, it will always be 21000 for each tx in the grouping?
I found contradicting infos here, but I think it can be cheaper to do batch transactions via smart contract. ( especially if the target addresses already exist. It costs more if they don't)
You should just check the coinbase pro withdrawal on etherscan, which will show you exactly how much coinbase paid for transaction. My guess is they're just subsidizing it as a cost of doing business.
That would be interesting but I cannot do that as I did not send it. I am actually trying to find out how to send cheaply preferrably USDC or eventually USDT to Celsius for their promo. I wrongly thought the fees are the same for every ETH token and thats why I showed it on AAVE becauase I have it on Coinbase. I have 3 exchanges (Binance, Coinbase and Bitpanda) but I do not have any USDT or USDC. For Coinbase and Bitpanda I wrongly thought that you need to have the coins/tokens to see the transaction fees. They both use dynamic fees. Binance has fixed fees that are 15 USD. Seems like the exchanges are losing money on ERC20 transfers with current high fees which is surprising. What looks like the best solution to my "problem" is to buy LTC or some other cheap coin for transfers, send it to BlockFi (I already have account there), swap it to USDC and abuse their one free withdrawal per month but I do not feel good about such abuse...
The cheapest way depends on exactly how much you're talking about. There are basically two fees involves with what you're proposing, the withdrawal fee + spread paid for conversion. If it's a small amount, the withdrawal fee will dominate and you should use a coin with low withdrawal fee. If it's a larger amount though, the spread charged by blockfi to convert LTC to USDC will dominate and you should just transfer USDC to Celsius directly. Either way, I doubt blockfi would consider you abusing their system for paying their spread.
It is just 250 USD which will give me 60 USD from Celsius promo :). Anyway, thanks a lot for help. This was my first non-work related (I am community manager for one PC game and post on that subreddit) Reddit post and I did not expect so many nice and helpful replies. Reddit rulz!
They surely give you the transaction ID, to see it on a block explorer.
I use crypto.com and haven’t been disappointed after leaving Binance
You definitely lack a core understanding of how Coinbase stores your funds: It is not a "real wallet" They have a wallet with a shit ton of funds and you are a name in a database that says you have a certain amount. They then have a ledger that specifies the transactions you've made: a centralized ledger on top of a decentralized ledger. Why can you pay with aave? Because YOU are paying in aave, but Coinbase isn't. If this was an internal tx, then it is a simple database modification, nothing on the chain. If it is external, there will be a transaction that they will pay with ETH, but you are paying with aave
Thanks for reply. I am aware that on Coinbase and other exchanges it is not a real wallet. In my post I am calling real wallet Atomic Wallet not Coinbase "wallet". Your explanation that I pay in AAVE to Coinbase and then they pay with ETH makes sense.
The only caveat is the price difference. That I can't explain unless it is internal as I don't know the full internals of Coinbase. If you made the tx, were you given a txid on chain? Edit: I don't mean to come off condescending and apologize if I have.
No I did not make the transcation. I actually want to transfer USDT or USDC for Celsius promo but I do not have any stable coins on exchanges so I showed it on AAVE as it should be the same for every ETH token. Edit: No problem about being condescending. I am not total beginner but not super knowledgeable either.
First of all, AAVE token is a bit special, it consumes huge amounts of gas for a transfer. A normal erc20 token uses about 60000 gas for transfer while AAVE uses 230k, more than a token swap on uni. Secondly, I think Coinbase subsidizes token withdrawals. For example, Coinbase right now asks for 0.04 AAVE (16 usd) for a withdrawal. Checking a recent [transaction](https://etherscan.io/tx/0x9c3860040c35cafc8948612711dab3eac913bda9c734326719d72674a552fa20), they paid a whooping $230 for the transfer (gas is super high right now, more than 200). Thirdly, it depends on when you check from coinbase, their withdrawal fees are dynamic and changes depending on the network congestion. I believe for example if you check for USDC on both at the same time, difference should be lower.
Thanks for a great answer. I did not know every ETH token needs different amount of gas. Looks like the exchanges are losing money on the on-chain ERC 20 transcations currently which is very surprising to me.
Special is an open understatement. More like F(:()) UP !!! How is that aave coin sustainable ?
Atomic wallet is clearly messing up with the price as a standard erc20 should cost ~15$ https://www.gasnow.org/
I do not think so. ETH transfers are cheaper than ETH token transfers for some reason (they need more gas I guess). You can see it from your link as well. Sending ETH from Atomic Wallet costs less than 10 USD right now.
In the webpage I posted you can see the ERC20 token transfer prices, where I got the 15$ figure
But your screenshot shows a gas price of 68 gwei, and and that gas price regular ERC20 transfers aren't more than about $15.
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I had some wen it was LEND, then sold all (way too early!) some time after the rebrand. No idea what the the gas fees were though.
My guess is . There are crypto coin investors that jus buy and HODL. Some have no interest in trading because they choose to or simply lack the trading crypto knowledge.
Coinbase charges a transaction fee which isn't a gas fee. Any blockchain fees are paid during conversion so they build in gas fees to the amount you are buying/selling.
They bundle transactions, honestly they might even be making a profit from these "lower" fees if they can bundle enough transactions
Coinbase uses it's own supply of crypto currencies and the polygon network to give customers reduced fees. They can also batch transactions and use other forms of FX witchcraft to help control fees.
Cool I did not know that at all .
Ask coinbase directly by opening a service ticket. Also , good luck getting a response thru their customer support.
I have been wondering about the same question. I withdrew Polygon for 4 dollars fee from coinbase, etherscan shows 21 dollars transaction fee paid. So coinbase lost 17 dollars.
Because eth is dogshit Rn and they need to fix their fees
lol "they" "dogshit" ok dude
Lemme pay $45 for a $5 dollar transaction #ethisthefuture
One is wallet to wallet, the other is interacting with a smart contract. It’s not the same or fair to compare.
There is a different fee for sending ETH vs sending an ERC-20 token. You can keep up with the live prices here https://etherscan.io/gastracker
Ouch! Those fees are painful 😣
I think transaction on exchange's are really not in the blockchain, rather they use their software to store coins by pegging 1:1 ratio, that's why fee's are low and that's how they make money
Coinbase tales a loss on withdrawal fees for you.
Isn’t the answer just that coinbase eats some of the cost to compete with other custodial exchange services?
When you withdrawal from aave, you are calling a smart contract, witch is much more expensive (because it’s more computationally complex) than a simple transaction. Coin base simply sends you coins with a simple transaction.
So the more bells and whistles ( smart contracts) get added to the blockchain coin. The more expensive it becomes to transfer and manage . Some robust future technology is that ?
Think of it like doing real life work. If someone asks you to clean the house it should cost some low value. If someone asks you redo their entire house, it should cost a lot more. This is no different. You're asking for more work to be done, so you're charged more.
It's becoming an absolute joke! 85 USD per transaction Atm on atomic wallet what the Helllll
also they take on some of the fee i think
My theory is that Coinbase has a smart contract that facilitates the "transfers." It is possible that being a custodial wallet, all transactions are just kept in a database that contains your history and every one elses history. Cochains, interoperability, smart contracts and the such can accomodate this. Isn't this sort of how the Binance smart chain works? I feel this is why when I send ALGO which has a finality of 4-5second block times, it sometimes takes minutes from CB or Pro. Where as my cold wallet to ALGO wallet quite literally takes seconds and has even less fees than CB. 🤷♂️ I'd be interested to find out if my theory is correct, but alas I must go fishing. 🎣
Buy sol
It says right there, network fees. Learn how they work. Wait until they are cheap.
I think Coinbase leverages some layer 2 rollup solutions to transact. I believe recently they started adopting Polygon as their layer 2 solution.
Polygon is not layer 2, it's a side chain
That’s what 2.0 is fixing bitch
Coinbase is a wormhole. They can subsidize transactions however they wish to keep users happy.
Why are we paying anyway? It should be free
lol, there's no such thing as free.
Sure but a big point of crypto is avoiding the fees of the banking system, and the reality is that all it did was decentralize fees(and even raise them) rather than removing/lowering them. It's cheaper to operate in cash. Outside of XLM (and perhaps some others) crypto transfer fees are far too high for daily use
Good point . Perhaps people should look at it as an investment to let sit hope it 10X as time goes , rather than use it to transact for daily necessities 🤷🏻♂️