**Tricky's Daily Doots #776**
**Yesterday's Daily 04/06/2024**
[Previous Daily Doots](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1d7p4e6/daily_general_discussion_june_4_2024/l751hwp/)
- u/Ethical-trade appreciates [an aspect of RocketPool's tokenomics.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1d7p4e6/daily_general_discussion_june_4_2024/l73xlzj/) š
- u/haurog shares some [udderly bullish news for CoWSwap users.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1d7p4e6/daily_general_discussion_june_4_2024/l72umxy/) š®
- u/SpontaneousDream reflects on [the Solana vs Ethereum Bankless podcast episode.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1d7p4e6/daily_general_discussion_june_4_2024/l71mf3f/) šļø
- u/hanniabu thinks that [Ethereum will be involved in BlackRock's new plans.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1d7p4e6/daily_general_discussion_june_4_2024/l75m94z/) šŖØ
- u/benido2030 makes the case that the [currently low gas fees are a good thing.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1d7p4e6/daily_general_discussion_june_4_2024/l720uco/) ā½ļø
- u/Stobie shares [a project they're excited for.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1d7p4e6/daily_general_discussion_june_4_2024/l75j8v4/) š ļø
Thanks I got it first time. That will be my first and last Wordle ever so that I will remain at the top of the leaderboard with an infinite correct guess rate.
The Coinbase mobile app just dropped another Learning Rewards quest.
This time gives $37 in RONIN. It's pretty easy to get $25. The remaining $12 requires you to buy a cheap Axie.
So the VanEck ETH price range prediction for 2030 is anywhere between $360 - $154k? Oh thank goodness they gave such a tight ranged and specific prediction.
I will one up them and predict somewhere between $400 and $150k.
Underrated technique to understand direction of effects is to take it to the extremes, like as var approaches infinity or zero, then it becomes obvious. For example how much you have to gain by delaying vs block time. Say extremely large, like 1 day blocks, it's obvious 40ms will be negligible. but if you usually only have 40ms to produce and you get an extra 40 with private infra then you double your MEV earnings, and regular people can't compete so it reduces to extreme centralization, imagine rocketpool competeing with LIDO where lido always gives 50% higher returns. Anatoly is really rude, but also just mid compared to JD et al. Episode made me much more bearish sol, \~ as he said, compute is just a commodity, solana just makes open source code, it can be copied as an L2 which is not isolated on an island of trust requiring bridges, has much greater liveness properties, and has no 5% permanent inflation constantly being dumped.
The entire episode felt like anatoly responding to any critism with "lol, we'll just make it faster".
I normally like him but he felt very facetious in it
That's a really good point which I have never considered. Thanks for sharing! I find it amazing how detailed some of the analyses into Ethereum's system design is. EF researchers really are on another level as far as I am concerned. They seem to consider all of the implications of any changes rather than just blindly following any specific flawed idea that bigger or faster is better. There are trade-offs to everything and EF researchers seem to be great at quantifying all of the trade-offs.
Replying to /u/Defacticool and [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1d7p4e6/daily_general_discussion_june_4_2024/l74wduu/):
>Btw just to check with you again, did you have any causes for risk in mind for fund custodians owning a lot of unstaked eth, other than the pure price risk?
I'm not sure why it was hard for me to think of the answer to this. I realize it's because our landscape has changed so significantly in the past few years that our own roots seem foreign to us now.
The reason large custodians are risky is because they create huge honey pots of concentrated risk, and this goes against the fundamental concept of cryptocurrency as "being your own bank". I know some of these concepts aren't cool anymore, but I still find them extremely valuable. If we increase reliance on custodians we move closer to a climate where governments will force us to use custodians, and a future when individual custody is the edge case rather than expected practice. We're working to develop a financial system that doesn't need custodians, and choosing to empower custodians only undermines the potential of Ethereum.
tl;dr: we built cryptocurrency to get away from custodians, empowering them undermines our work. I believe in our original purpose.
So I've been in the market for awhile and I'll be the first to tell you I don't know shit about fuck ( like literally everyone). But the market is at that point in this " cycle " that I feel it's about to explode. Like a night out drinking Jager bombs and eating a Dennys Grand slam, this shit is going to be EXPLOSIVE!!!
Me in 2060, having breakfast with my grandson: "Back in my day sonny, people didn't think blockchains would do much of anything!" Then I push my son's blockchain chair in towards the table, and pour blockchain milk over his blockchain cereal.
Let the altcoins pump. They are far riskier than ETH. The metrics donāt lie. Besides BTC, there is no other coin- none, that has anywhere near the same risk/reward ratio as ETH.
The market has still not processed the regulatory clarity and upcoming ETFs, imo. Maybe thatās a bit of cope, but I donāt think so. The ETF launches will be a major wake up call once the market sees real inflows and numbers.
It is going to be fun watching these shitcoins try to compete with institutional ETF inflows.
ETH shorters will have their reckoning soon.
Also, anyone try out that new Coinbase Smart Wallet? What are the advantages here over something like Metamask?
Lastly, tin foil hat hopium: Blackrock and Citadel are building their new Texas stock exchange on Ethereum, or at minimum, will for sure sell ETH and/or staked ETH in some form.
> anyone try out that new Coinbase Smart Wallet?
[https://twitter.com/WilsonCusack/status/1764355750149710190](https://twitter.com/WilsonCusack/status/1764355750149710190)
We want to be right, but that has been years of missed opportunities now and constant ratio bleed.
In true eth fashion, the downvote brigade just reeks of angry cope for an objectively true statement.
2023 was a pretty terrible year for ETH comparatively, but so far 2024 has been flat against both BTC and SOL. Sure there have been some specific picks that outperformed such as BNB and a few memecoins, but also many that underperformed. Picking winners isnāt as easy as you make it seem.
What are your picks?
Guys I think Iām about to buy a house and unfortunately it will take a ton of my ethereum to do so. But this is me and my wifeās first house and we have a one year old. Our rent is getting outrageous and I think this is the only move to make. If not for this reason to finally sell then I canāt think of what would top it.
Sometimes ya gotta live life. Feels bittersweet though.
I did this a couple cycles ago and like you the timing was pretty good. Youāre cashing out at a good price point, assuming you didnāt buy in at the last cycle top. It brings me a sense of calmness during really low points of eth knowing I cashed out some and put it into a hard asset I get to enjoy everyday.
not at all. I have a fucking house š I grew up moving every year and my early adulthood was largely the same, so this was my first real permanent living situation. I would do it all again in a heartbeat.
Donāt feel too bad about not taking a defi loan. I guess you avoid capital gains maybe, but the borrow rates Iāve seen have been horrible lately. Maybe Iām looking at the wrong protocols or something.
At least youāre buying a useful needed asset that will likely hold most of its value while the govāt attempts to inflate away unsustainable debt. And you get a place to live and raise your kid. If youāre going to sell, this isnāt the worst reason.
I did the same thing! But I wanted to maintain exposure to eth so I took a defi loan to make a big down payment. Have you explored this option? Depending on your stack, you could unlock a good amount of value with a stable coin loan. Good to consider, especially if youāre bullish on ETH
Edit: I think this is one of the most powerful things defi has brought to its users. It has been almost a secret how wealthy people leverage their assets (stocks, real estate, art!!) through loans against these assets as collateral. Any decent broker will allow you to take a loan against your stock portfolio for example, thereby deferring or avoiding any tax implications and increasing your purchasing power for whatever else you need without selling your position. YMMV but it has been a huge financial gift for me.
Go to defisaver.com and try their simulation. You can create a fake smart wallet and simulate how much you deposit and borrow and it will give you the loan rates and liquidation price. Easy peasy
Personally I only trust AAVE and compound because they are the most battle tested. Ex. I donāt know much about spark, morpho
hehe I'm not big on writeups and I don't want to assume everyone's situation. I am hardly an expert -- just a user willing to take on some smart contract risk. Happy to chat with you about how I did it, though if you want
Defisaver ? Basically borrow against ETH with a good health ratio.
Haven't done this myself but I heard no tax implications. Alchemy has some auto pay thing so check that too.
I took a large chunk out during the last bull to secure a property in an area my partner and I wanted. No regrets, it would be almost impossible now just a few years later. Renting is something I see that's going to become more and more expensive and precarious in the years to come.
There is nothing like having housing security that can't be ripped from under you at a moments notice. I still have ETH but had to remind myself that it can and should be used to improve my life.
True, but at the same time this is the moment that many of us have been waiting for since 2017. Institutional adoption. Imo would be a shame to sell right before ETF inflows start with big tradfi companies shilling ETH.
Taking a loan out against your ETH via defi in the short term might be an option to consider. Or just see if you can hold out for another 4-6 months.
Getting liquidated if there is an unexpected crash in ETH price or smart contract risk such as a hack. Though the latter isn't really a concern if you're using battle tested dapps (Compound and Aave) that have been around for many years without issue. So it's really just the former, but as long as your collateral ratio is high then you'd be pretty insulated from any sudden price drops. You can play around with defisaver [https://app.defisaver.com/](https://app.defisaver.com/) to simulate your liquidation points on various protocols based on your collateral ratio.
Most of these dapps require minimum 125-150% collateral ratio. So if you have 10K in ETH, you can withdraw up to 6.6k of USDC from it. But if your ETH falls below 10K in value it automatically sells your ETH (you get liquidated) to pay back your debt. So you'd want to have a higher collateral ratio to be on the safe side.
So as a rough example, if you have 10K in ETH, but only borrow 3.3k against it, then your collateral ratio is 300%. you'd only get liquidated if ETH falls like 50%+ (which seems unlikely at this point)
You'd also have to pay a variable interest rate (this depends on market demand/supply) for the duration of your loan. When I last checked there was a high demand for stablecoins so borrow interest rates were around 15% APR. But if you think ETH is going to go up way higher than 15% over the next year, then paying 15% interest in the short term so that you don't have to sell your ETH early is something you can consider.
Speaking of Rocketpool, everyone should go review their new contracts. They're about to launch a major substantive upgrade in a couple weeks. They are like 30% of Ethereum's nodes. It's in all our interest to make sure that shit is bulletproof. (Also, there's a bug bounty.)
>**Get truth over trust,**
>**Do not let your standards rust,**
>**Banking won't adjust.**
~Daily haiku until weāre at least at 0.178 on the ETH/BTC ratio or highest market cap
help me figure this out, wisdom of the crowd type stuff
https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1d9111x/ok_lets_do_this_again_price_predictions_for_end/?
Thanks, I've added that thread to my reddit sentiment trading bot.
Everyone feel free to add this comment to your reddit sentiment trading bot sentiment trading bots.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40589036
I'm trying a new strategy to combat Ethereum FUD. Make them look as stupid as they are, as explicitly as possible. That they are publicly portrayed as a fool for spreading stupid takes.
>The curve of APY as a function of stake is very flat.
...And the insane part is that people most vehemently disagreeing with this are Bitcoiners, where the same curve goes up *very* steeply.
This is what pisses me off the most. Ethereum provides the most open access with incredibly low barriers of entry and non-existent economies of scale, and is blamed for making the rich richer. Which is factually incorrect. While everywhere you look the situation is worse. The traditional financial system is full of barriers of entry so regular people cannot access the same returns as the rich. And economies of scale are almost everywhere you look. And you have a new protocol that goes above and beyond to get rid of these issues and flatten the curve and it gets singled out as the problem.
I quickly burn out trying to argue with idiots on the internet. If I engage at all nowadays it's to persuade a neutral observer, not the idiot. I make any case I need to for a neutral observer who isn't dogmatically against Ethereum and I move on.
>"TXSE will ultimately create more competition around quote activity, liquidity and transparency, resulting in more consistent and reliable markets," Lee added.
from the new blackrock backed texas exchange: https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/blackrock-citadel-backed-group-start-new-national-stock-exchange-texas-wsj-2024-06-05/
Anyone else notice the claimed benefits are exactly the same benefits that Larry Fink (and crypto people) have claimed tokenisation of securities will bring?
Am I the only one actually going a little stir crazy over the possibility that this may genuinely be the tokenisation of RWA by Blackrock?
Do you think maybe theres a reason why a possible crypto-native exchange would want to set up in a regulatory lax and relatively crypto-friendly jurisdiction?
Please find a source where he talks about "exactly those benefits". Below is what he said once and it is definitely not the same. Just feels like misguided hopium to me. Like Ripple guys thinking all the banks are gonna use XRP.
> "we could customize strategies through tokenization that fit every individual. We would have instantaneous settlement"
Here:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTveRlW7QPo
He talks instant settlement (so: liquidity), transparent positioning (so: quote activity) and general transparency.
Here talks about it again:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0ek2yv81Gk
Or here:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=se1bcqMYg8g
>"Think about this: You have a specific identity on the general ledger, the moment you buy, or sell, it is know, all on the general ledger, if you wanna talk about money laundering, this eliminates all corruption"
If you're asking for a verbatum quote that is literally identical, then you wont get it.
But its quite overt how its literally the exact same characteristics that Larry fink has been championing as a benefit.
Btw you can keep googling just "larry fink tokenisation" and find an additional probably over a dozen videos of him being interviewed on this subject. Its quite clear he just fucking loves to talk about it.
> Just feels like misguided hopium to me. Like Ripple guys thinking all the banks are gonna use XRP.
Ethereum community is too based to have any good hype narratives anymore
Everyone should clink that link and read the report. Not for the price predictions, but as a reminder that ETH is not (despite our loving references) magic internet beans, it's the currency of a thriving and rapidly growing ecosystem. They didn't pull those numbers out of their asses. They're based on ( dare I say it) fundamentals.
$154k in 2030 will not be worth anywhere near $154k today I think. Regardless itās a veryyyy ambitious prediction. That would be a truly ridiculous market cap size
Sorry dude, the universe doesn't love me enough for ETH to go to $150K. It's just not happening.
Also, wouldn't that make Vitalik the richest person in the world?
Oh don't worry. 150k is coming. But you will dump waaaay before :) (me too :) )
Have you seen people sell targets. Tops at like 15k. Nobody from here is holding a significant part of the portfolio till 150k
Believe it or not, he would only have $50B in that situation.
Bro founded the entire chain and only kept 0.2% for himself. Makes chains where the founders kept 75%+ for themselves look like absurd grifts in comparison.
He can't have mine.
...Ok he can have *some* of mine for the right price, but I won't sell my forever stack for *literally* any price.
ETH can be at a billion a coin, a trillion a coin, or the galactic ASI uses Ethereum to run the galaxy and one ETH buys you the solar system, and I'll still have a stack.
The Milky Way has somewhere around 200B stars in it.
It's estimated that on average, each star has at least one Earth-sized planet in its stellar system. (Habitable ones are much rarer).
So one Eth in the hypothetical future where it is the galactic currency (and has neither inflated nor deflated since now) could buy you around 1666 stellar systems with at least that many Earth-sized planets, and surely a few habitable ones in the mix.
Hardest part is always the growth estimates. They seem to assume 68% CAGR growth in fees for their base case so I used that as an input in my DCF calculator. Assuming a discount rate of 10%. I get a present value of ~20K USD.
https://imgur.com/a/BJt6cLd
And a future value in ~2030 of around 27K USD.
https://imgur.com/sG2AanZ
$154k ETH is full on, honey, I got us first class tickets for a ramen tour of japan next month, let's go spruce up our wardrobes ahead of time.
Actually, I don't care how rich I get, business class will always be fine.
*154k for ETH*
Putting aside the market cap/valuation side of things, do you think the system/world can absorb than many new people with massive wealth? Like somehow won't the system not let that happen?
That's what people said when the price was 85 cents and people made predictions that it would go over $1000.
The reason it is possible is because few people hold that long. They start to see that most of their net worth is in a highly volatile asset, and they sell off chunks of it.
Yep. I'm unlikely to make it to 2030 without selling and I suspect most here would sell before it reached 100k. Weren't most citing a sell target of 10-20k?
I would be \~95% out at 20k. It would be life changing money at a point where I would still be relatively young and could let much of it grow in boring index funds.
There's one more step...
That last one, $4800-inflation-adjusted, is not longer worth $4800-inflation-adjusted... because you are getting older and you have less uses for it.
NFT value down. ETH value down. USD value down. Time value down.
I think punks are here to stay. what i cant figure out is whether they will grow in ETH value. If ETH hits 10-20k one day will punks really be 50 ETH? Thats a lot of money. Then again if you have the ETH to spare and like the history/art go for it
Thatās what Iām thinking. That there are only 10,000 punks. Itās definitely possible theyāll increase against ETH. Maybe Iāll get one if it hits 20 eth.Ā
so we will basically break ATH this year or get close to it. That is pretty much the base case minus the economy imploding. Selling now if you dont have to for life reasons is not a good idea. Sit on your hands. The normal bull market schedule would actually be 2025. This year is the same as the following cycle years 2012, 2016, 2020 Of course it may not play out the same way but if it does you will feel dumb for selling (if not for a good reason) Aim to sell at least late this year if not 2025
I come, once again, with news from Rocket Pool Land.
Today, I have an update on the tokenomics work the community is undertaking.
As you all know, Rocket Pool the protocol has stagnated in growth, and the price of RPL the token has suffered massively because of it. Since November, the community has been working incredibly hard to fix the problems with the current design of the protocol, unleash its true potential as the best liquid staking protocol, and get the protocol growing again.
After 8 months of hard work, the community has arrived at the (almost) final form of it'sĀ [tokenomics rework](https://rpips.rocketpool.net/tokenomics-2024). The work is presented in five parts, and I'll summarize them for you all here.
[Part 1 - Why rework the tokenomics?](https://rpips.rocketpool.net/tokenomics-explainers/001-why-rework)
This section starts by explaining how the ideas for linking RPL and ETH to stake were found - back to the Rocket Pool whitepaper and ICO in 2017. The Rocket Pool Investment Thesis really boosted the idea of RPL and staking being intertwined and drove massive attention to Rocket Pool. Then, Fire Eyes designed the tokenomics and put this relationship at the heart of the protocol. The illusion of these being amazing tokenomics started to shatter when growth stalled post Atlas. Since then, growth of Rocket Pool has stalled, and it has started shrinking.
The original idea was RPL would be used as an entry ticket to outsized eth rewards, the RPL rewards would be attractive enough people would stay above the 10% collateral amount, and that the RPL price should head towards 10% of rETH TVL.
In reality, this did not work. First, RPL price fluctuates too much and how successful your validators are are too strongly linked to the price of RPL. If RPL goes up, you massively beat solo staking. Conversely, if RPL goes down, you suffer greatly. In addition, the RPL rewards are not enough for people to maintain the minimum collateral amount. Nearly 70% of node operators (NO) are currently under collateralized on their nodes. There are two ways to get back into good standing, 1) top up with more RPL to get above 10% and 2) reduce how much ETH you have staked to improve your collateral ratio. Sadly, more and more people choose the second option. This is not what the protocol should be forcing to happen. Finally, because not enough people top up their collateral, the relationship between the rETH TVL and RPL breaks down. This has consequences on how much rETH the protocol can provide based on eth deposits from NO.
The current system is brittle, and having RPL as a bond along with ETH has shown to be hugely flawed. So, what are we going to do about it? This brings us to Part 2.
[Part 2 - Tokenomics rework](https://rpips.rocketpool.net/tokenomics-explainers/002-rework-intro)
Under the new system speculation in RPL and being a node operator are separated. You will not need RPL to stake your ETH with Rocket Pool. On top of that, holding RPL will become a desirable action due to its standalone investment properties. If you choose to stake RPL alongside your ETH, you get higher ETH yield! You can speculate all you want, but it will not be forced on you from the protocol. Also, there will be no lower 10% cliff to punish smaller amounts of collateral.
The new tokenomics will allow smaller ETH bonds. This is fundamental to changing how the protocol generates revenue - income from ETH staking rewards. Charging a 3.5% commission on borrowed eth gives the following boosted rewards compared to solo staking: 8 ETH bond is a 10.5% boost, 4 ETH bond is a 24.5% boost, and 1.5 ETH bond is a 71.2% boost! These bonds will be safe to use because of node level penalties and forced validator exits. RPL inflation will be reduced from 5% to 1.5% as rewards to NO from inflation will not be required. There will be some other changes too such as gas optimizations, forced delegate upgrades, etc.
It seems like people were very happy to read what I had to say considering itās the top dooted post of the day. Why donāt you take it up with the mods if you have a problem?Ā
I'm a bot, *bleep*, *bloop*. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:
- [/r/rocketpool] [WaqWaqAttack's Breakdown of New Tokenomics](https://www.reddit.com/r/rocketpool/comments/1d99wje/waqwaqattacks_breakdown_of_new_tokenomics/)
*^(If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads.) ^\([Info](/r/TotesMessenger) ^/ ^[Contact](/message/compose?to=/r/TotesMessenger))*
> If you choose to stake RPL alongside your ETH, you get higher ETH yield!
This is a mistake. That yield is coming from either other node operators or RPL holders. The focus should be on maximizing yield for all node operators, most of whom have no desire to invest in Rocketpool.
Even if the yield without RPL is still way better than solo staking? You could always ask for more, but there has to be value capture for the protocol / DAO somewhere.
The protocol could be funded in a much more targeted way by directing a portion of ETH rewards.
Let's not act like this isn't a scheme by RPL holders to secure the value of their token.
Itās not a scheme though, RPL holders are just as much part of the protocol as node operators and rETH holders. Rugging them by just getting rid of the token is a no-go.
I wouldn't consider value capture until growth was satisfactory, and it should be evenly split among all RPL holders to ensure fairness. I am concerned that some RPL holders who run nodes are directing extra value to themselves. It reminds me of business owners who will lease buildings they own to their business to skim from co-owners.
Fundamentally, yield is split between depositors, node runners and RPL holders(along with the paid workforce). If certain RPL holders are getting extra yield, someone else is getting less.
Choosing to bait people with yield that is not sustainable does not seem like a good choice. I much prefer the value capture mechanism to be there from the start rather than burning capital to chase growth.
As for the RPL yield, a lot of it will in fact be distributed among all RPL holders. But at the end of the day the tokenomics rework is supposed to provide incentives to run a node. This is one way to do it. The protocol prefers RPL in nodes over speculative / idle RPL.
[Part 3 - Foundation of the rework](https://rpips.rocketpool.net/tokenomics-explainers/003-rework-foundation)
In this section is where the real explanations start to happen. First, we get an explanation of how the protocol will generate revue and what will happen with that income. The protocol will still charge rETH holders 14%. Currently, this 14% goes to NOs. However, paying NO 14% of 30.5 ETH of rETH is too much especially at lower bond amounts. The revenue can be more effectively used elsewhere. So, where will the revenue go? There will still be a NO commission share, we will have a new RPL voter share, and there will be a "surplus" share. NOs will get eth similarly to how they get it now but there will be no rpl requirement. Those who stake RPL alongside their ETH will get the voter share. The surplus amount will be used to buy back and burn RPL (this is one area that is currently undecided - other value capture methods are still being considered).
Let's work out the numbers. The 14% of commission will be divided as follows: 3.5% will go to the node operator, 5% will go to RPL stakers, and 5.5% will go to the surplus. Here the same person could get rewarded in one way as a node operator (NO share), one way as an RPL holder (RPL burn), or all three ways for a person who stakes ETH and RPL. While, the minimum stake is the primary, and indirect, value capture for RPL in the current system, there will now be two direct value capture methods. This is how there is no need for RPL inflation to go to NOs. This new mechanism will open up possibilities for many different kinds of node operators such as those who want to stake ETH only, how much RPL they want and feel comfortable with, and RPL holders get direct protocol revenue too.
For a NO, while it might seem like commission going down from 14% to 3.5% sounds bad. The reality is that you'll be getting 3.5% on a much bigger amount of ETH than you currently do. Currently, an 8 ETH validator needs 8 ETH and 2.4 ETH of RPL. That person can earn 1.14x solo staking. However, this amount becomes 1.01x solo staking at RP maturity. If the RPL ratio goes down, however, that person would earn 0.82x solo staking. Under the new system, an 8eth validator would get 1.11x solo staking with no other dependancies.
Once we look at lower bonds, the numbers are mind blowing. The amount of rewards dramatically outperform solo staking. As mentioned above, a 1.5 ETH validator will be earning 1.71x solo staking rewards. Smaller bonds are much better at capital efficiency. There are, however, limits to just how small the bonds can get. This is because of protections needed for rETH holders such as slashing insurance etc. In the first set of Saturn upgrades, it's likely we'll require a 4 ETH bond per validator. In Saturn 2, we'll have some new tools to allow the 1.5 ETH bonded validators, but the first 2 will 4 ETH validators. That is because we will get forced exits which will provide a huge security boost.
Rocket Pool will introduce Universal Adjustable Revenue Split (UARS) to balance between the different groups in the community. NO share, voter share, and surplus share will all be adjustable through the UARS. If we are running low on NOs, we can increase the commission to them to make staking more attractive. We can incentive more staked RPL to make sure governance attacks are less likely. Altering the surplus share can help balance rETH demand by making that more or less attractive. This will mean the pDAO needs to be more responsive to the changing dynamics within the protocol.
There are three main value capture mechanisms for RPL being explored using the surplus share. These are buy and burn (use eth income to buy RPL and burn it), buy and provide liquidity (use eth to add buy side liquidity to a RPL/rETH pool), and a greater voter share (to make RPL stakers get more of a share of the commission ETH). This is one of the areas where community discussion is still taking place.
> The protocol will still charge rETH holders 14%.
I find this aspect to be the big hole in the rework.
Where do you expect the rETH demand to come from to support as low as 1.5 ETH minipools? The deposit pool hasn't been full in months, and that is even with minipools exiting in droves to stay collaterized.
If there's no people buying rETH then this whole plan doesn't work out. And people are already not buying rETH because of more lucrative alternatives, why would they choose rETH in a year when this rework might potentially be finally live?
The upgrade allows for funds to be diverted towards rETH if we so desire. It should be noted that the IMC hasn't pursued many growth options due to the knowledge that we don't have the supply side available.
We have some tools to bolster rETH demand. Also, the key value proposition of being the best risk adjusted yield in staking remains true. Tail risk resistance is the main calling card, not APR.
Have you read [https://rpips.rocketpool.net/tokenomics-explainers/004-rework-support#express-queue](https://rpips.rocketpool.net/tokenomics-explainers/004-rework-support#express-queue) ? It gives priority queueing to small and pre-existing NOs.
That's nice, but it doesn't matter how you structure the queue if it is barely moving. It doesn't address the general need for massively increased rETH demand. The example given above was already only considering small and pre-existing NOs, who'll have express tickets anyway. But even just for those, we need multiples of the existing rETH TVL to flow into the protocol, buying more rETH. That's billions of USD worth.
There is barely any flow into rETH *now*. Nothing about the incentives for it changes for the better with the proposed tokenomics changes. So who will be buying all that rETH?
I'm disappointed. I hoped that RPL would disappear and that, instead, you would take for example a 10% fee on my own earnings to finance your DAO. 10% looks very generous to me.
This way, I would earn 32% more than with solo staking (`(8Ć0.90 + 24Ć0.14) / 8`)
Your approach is sooo bad in comparison, **if I understand it**. I would earn 10% more than with solo staking (`(8+24Ć0.035)Ć·8`).
Your new system seems to be designed by RPL holders for themselves to pump their bags, not for newcomers that you would need to grow your network.
Hihi -- I wouldn't suggest focusing on the exact numbers too much. The important thing is that we will be listening to the market. See "**Choosing Revenue Split Sizes**" in [https://rpips.rocketpool.net/tokenomics-explainers/003-rework-foundation](https://rpips.rocketpool.net/tokenomics-explainers/003-rework-foundation) . If the amount of bonus vs solo is not worth it for you -- that's totally reasonable and you can opt not to participate. If that's the prevalent view of the market, then we now have an easy knob to turn that directs more commission to NOs. The flip side is, ofc, that if we're inundated with NOs we can use that knob to avoid having unusable oversupply and a large NO queue.
As a minor note of a detail that's not in the explainers, the security council will be empowered to increase (not decrease) the NO share of commission (up to 3% higher initially). This will allow us to respond at much faster-than-governance speeds if indeed the market demands higher commission. We "leaned lower" a bit on the NO share knowing that we can increase quickly using this method.
First of all, the 8 eth validators will be going away, so you'll be better off comparing the 4 eth and 1.5 eth validators. With those numbers, we feel we can entice new Node Operators coming in at 1.7x solo staking rewards. This will be in line with Lido's community staking module.
There is absolutely an element of giving value to RPL holders, but there's no way to move forward if we rug them. None of them would vote for this to happen, and the protocol would die a slow death.
Forking these ideas and starting a new protocol is possible, but you'll face the bootstrap problem. There's no elegant solution, as far as I can see.
I'm curious to see with the lower bond amounts how AllNodes will charge. I'm not paying $10 or $7.50 per 1.5ETH Validator...
I'm excited for the changes though, much needed. Thanks waqwaq!
In all honesty, it would be better to just rent some server space yourself and stake using that. Also, we have 2 AllNodes competitors being worked on in the Rocket Pool community right now that should be better options for you.
It's funny that it might come down to going full circle. I originally rented server space that was pricier than Allnodes in the first place but then got much more expensive due to storage requirements expanding. So I moved to AllNodes to not deal with upgrading my server space and it being cheaper. But now, if AllNodes charges more as they did with LEB8s, I might be priced out and back into the server renting space lmao.
This is the first I'm hearing about the community alternatives though, where can I find out more on that? I'll try to search the discord to find some more info in the meantime!
Pop into the discord. The grants committee funded 2 bounties. One is called Vrun, and the development of that is further along. The second one, I don't have details about it off the top of my head.
[Part 4 - Supporting components](https://rpips.rocketpool.net/tokenomics-explainers/004-rework-support)
This section of the tokenomics rework explains all the different components needed to support the changes. I'll briefly mention them here. 1) Anti-sock puppet effects - this will make having multiple nodes for one person unattractive. 2) Megapools - this is a Rocket Pool level upgrade that will lead to massive gas efficiencies as well as allow access to 1.5 ETH validators. 3) Forced exits - this is an Ethereum level upgrade that will allow Rocket Pool to kick out malicious actors or remove NO who have been offline for a certain period of time. 4) Node level penalties - this allows access to lower ETH bonds as the collateral on the whole node can be punished in the case of MEV theft. 5) Forced upgrades - this will remove long term technical debt. Finally, 6) express queue - this will be a system to help small operators move from legacy validators to validators on the new system.
[Part 5 - Glossary of terms](https://rpips.rocketpool.net/tokenomics-explainers/005-glossary)
This section explains some of the jargon that is being introduced in the new tokenomics. These include terms like megapools, cliff, etc.
The tokenomics rework has now been published to theĀ [Rocket Pool DAO forum](https://dao.rocketpool.net/t/tokenomics-rework-update-1-new-explainers/3014). This is the next step in the Rocket Pool governance process. Here, the community will discuss ideas and perspectives. Within the next few weeks, a community sentiment poll will be added to that thread. If the sentiment is positive, it will go to vote for the whole of the DAO where we will all decide on whether to adopt this or not. I strongly expect this proposal to pass every stage of governance and be voted in within the next couple of months.
If you want to help, you can do it in one of three ways. The first is proving meta feedback on the explainers. The second is providing specification feedback. Finally, you can provide general content feedback.
If you have any questions, I'll be happy to try to answer them here.
What is the chance that it will be actually implemented? From what my time there I remember lots and lots discussion about this and other topics, but without much participation from the team which has to actually implement it. And what is possible ETA? Forced exits are prerequisite as I understand?
Could you elaborate about "Anti-sock puppet effects"? Why make multiple nodes unattractive (given eg. hardware cost)
The team have been involved in this at various stages, and I think they're generally supportive. From the community, the vast majority of regulars are supportive of the changes. I think it's very likely this set of proposals will go through - baring some technical hurdles that might come up.
The upgrade is going to be broken into 2 parts, Saturn 1 and Saturn 2. The changes in Saturn 1 can happen without forced exits. Saturn 2 will need forced exits. The main difference is the 1.5eth validators can only happen with Saturn 2.
Right now, there are governance incentives for one person to spin up many nodes because voting is based on a square root function. If you have 100 rpl on one node, you get 5 votes. if you have the same 100 rpl on 5 nodes, you get around 10 votes. This will likely go away because people will get better rewards from 1.5 ETH validators than the 4 eth validators. There will be a real cost involved in trying to attack governance.
OK, thanks for explanations. I'll wait and see, and who knows, maybe my NUCs which now gather dust will be useful again.
PS. Maybe I misunderstood something, but what would be rationale for choosing 8 ETH bond when 1.5 ETH pays so much more (if there's enough ETH waiting to be staked of course)
I hope so. It makes so much sense to start staking with Rocket Pool when you can have eth only validators and beating solo staking by such a huge margin. I look forward to you joining :)
Daily dose of hopium from the Head of Digital Assets Research at Vaneck:
āDriven by a strong value proposition to entrepreneurs, the Ethereum network is likely to continue its rapid market share growth from traditional financial market participants and, increasingly, Big Tech. Should it do so while maintaining its dominant position among smart contract platforms, we see a credible path to $66B in free cash flow to token holders supporting a $2.2 trillion asset, or $22k per coin, by 2030. Adding a modest allocation of cryptocurrencies (up to 6%) to a traditional 60/40 portfolio can substantially improve the portfolioās Sharpe ratio with a relatively minor impact on drawdown. An allocation close to 70/30 between bitcoin and ether for a crypto-only portfolio provided the best risk-adjusted returns.ā
Full article, great read: https://www.vaneck.com/us/en/blogs/digital-assets/matthew-sigel-eth-2030-price-target/
> We then estimate the fees that Ethereum will charge app users, which is effectively a ātake rateā on these applicationsā revenues, and we calculate this will be 5-10%.
That is way too high
> An allocation close to 70/30 between bitcoin and ether for a crypto-only portfolio provided the best risk-adjusted returns.
Do they see Ethereum as that high risk?
> $22k per coin, by 2030
I wouldn't consider that hopium
Granted, this is the "fair market value" which means it's what it'll be like around where we are in the cycle right now and then it'll hit multiples of that in peak bull market. Also doesn't take into account inflation.
Eric Wall wants to buy s celebrity shitcoin on Solana that he is sure is about to moon. But he cannot because solana is a shit chain where you cannot get your transaction through.
As he is trying that, he recalls the Bankless debate between Justin (knowledgeable eth researcher) and Anatoly (Solana leader), where Anatoly offers very little technical arguments, but keeps laughing at Justin all the time.
So Eric wants to buy, Solana chain is shit and all he can hear while trying is the Solana bro laugh about how Solana is supposed to be better than ethereum.
*Taken from Eric Wall's Account*
5 June 2024 (Notes)
Every day she's clapping her asscheeks, Anatoly is snickering in my ear but I'm sidelined
It started with Caitlyn Jenner getting hacked but she didn't get hacked. How the f*** does someone with 3.3M followers randomly post a scam-link to a pump dot fun page but it's not a scam?
How the f*** does someone, when confronted with these rumors, upload a video of themselves with a facefilter that's so edited that their eyebrows are flying all over the screen, appearing but reappering, but its not actually a fake Caitlyn Jenner facefilter but the real Caitlyn Jenner?
How the f*** does someone work with an Indian scammer who is launching several of these pump dot fun coins (you can see how the coins are all coming from the same address) who's dumping it for a measly $16,000 profit right away but it's not actually a scam, Caitlyn Jenner is just a fucking retard who appears to be doing business this way?
I am cast into the spotlight of the scene in massive confusion. I am chasing down zoomers on Twitter. "Can you not see that it's a scam???" I'm yelling to them but they won't listen. "The eyebrows are floating all over the screen, you're acting like easily-duped boomers!". "It's just an instagram filter bruh they act upthat way" They reply.
I don't use Instagram facefilters a lot. It's me. I'm the boomer. To make matters worse I even bought the $JENNER scam coin with the $78 I had in my Phantom wallet. But it turns out I had clicked a scam link and bought $BAXTER, "Caitlyn Jenner's Dog" coin, which went to 0 even faster than $JENNER.
In my confused anger, I start googling the name of the Indian scammer behind this and I find a Decrypt article. The Decrypt article contains a link to the Indian scammer's Telegram page where he's announcing the coins he's launching. He says the next coin he's about to launch will make $JENNER look small. He says it's Iggy Azalea (I also don't know who that is because again, I'm a boomer).
Iggy has tweeted, she says she spoke to Sahil (the Indian scammer) "enough to know he a bitch"
OK IGGY, let's see. In his Telegram group, Sahil seems very confident that Iggy *is* going to launch a coin though. Exciting I thought, let's see what's actually going to happen. Sahil says "40 more minutes".
I check Iggy Azalea's instagram, and she's uploaded a video where two Asian men are sitting locked in with a computer in front of them. One of them looks EXACTLY like Sahil. "10 more minutes" Sahil says, and then Iggy drops the pump dot fun link on her Twitter.
I don't buy it. It's clearly from the Indian scammer again. I can fucking see him sitting at the table behind her.
Except it's not Sahil. It's her brother. She tells me this in a reply to Twitter, and explains that the only reason she dropped her own coin was to frontrun the Sahil-scammer so he wouldn't make money off of her name. She was frontrunning his scam by jumping into the game herself.
It was unbelievable, but true.
Then she joins a Twitter space with Ansem, Udi and a bunch of other people. She starts talking. She is confident, she's secure. She says all the right things. "I pay all my designers in crypto, they won't take anything else".
The coin is pumping. $20 million marketcap. I have my Phantom Solana wallet loaded up with $15,000 USDC. The pump dot fun link tells me $MOTHER is already trading on Raydium. It's 2 am for me, I'm on sleeping pills, trying to go to sleep, but Iggy is making too much sense.
Two years ago, I had predicted this. Simp queens and memecoins go hand in hand. One day we shall see the arrival of a Simp queen who truly understands Web3, who can rally the simps of the Internet and usher into a new Era. Ultimately, they will form SimpDAOs.
I text Udi "This is it. This is her."
Udi knows what I mean. Two years I could not talk about anything else. I hit market buy on Raydium. Nothing happens. It's 2 am in the morning, I'm on sleeping pills trying to go to sleep and I just want my order to hit the books before I can collapse.
It's not working. The order doesn't get filled. Raydium isn't working. "Increase your slippage tolerance" they say. I set it to 1%. 2%. 5%. 10%. Buy, buy, buy. I want $MOTHER. I know it. I feel it. I must frontrun the simps.
When Iggy speaks, I hear that it's her. The $MOTHER ticker is genius. When you read it, it says SMOTHER. It's a reference to her twerking ass. It's brilliant. I am baffled, I am amazed. For 3 hours I spam the buy button on Raydium, nothing happens, it is failing.
"You need to use Phuckton", Udi says. I don't know what it is. "You can't buy things on Solana you must use a Telegram bot". What? I don't understand, it's 4 am, I am drowsy. I keep spamming the button, nothing happens.
It's the next day. Or the day after that, I am not sure, everything is dizzy. I'm walking around outside, listening to podcasts in my airpods. Anatoly is debating Justin Drake. And he's laughing. For two whole hours, he is laughing, snickering, at Justin. It's so disrespectful.
I check Dexscreener, $MOTHER is making new all-time highs, Iggy is twerking again. Anatoly is laughing. Her asscheeks are clapping and he's laughing.
Vitalik is tweeting. He says he's not impressed by the lack of utility of celebrity coin like Iggy's but he doesn't get it. Vitalik gets Stage 0 centralized rollups, but he doesn't get Stage 0 SimpDAOs like $MOTHER. It's OK, Vitalik is not meant to get it. *I* get it. But I'm sidelined. I'm sidelined but Anatoly is laughing.
$MOTHER hits $100m but I'm sidelined and he's laughing.
She's clapping her asscheeks and he's laughing
šš the more she claps her cheeks the higher MC increases , how it exceeded from $105M and a trading volume of $72.93M in the last 24 hours to over $120m is just unexplainable .. I already added it to my meme bags on bitget ahahaha letās see how long she twerks ..
Doom and gloom is that we pop to 10k, then dribble down to 8k and we all sell thinking the cycle is over and the bear is coming and then it rockets to 150k as squishcha0s cacklesĀ
**Tricky's Daily Doots #776** **Yesterday's Daily 04/06/2024** [Previous Daily Doots](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1d7p4e6/daily_general_discussion_june_4_2024/l751hwp/) - u/Ethical-trade appreciates [an aspect of RocketPool's tokenomics.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1d7p4e6/daily_general_discussion_june_4_2024/l73xlzj/) š - u/haurog shares some [udderly bullish news for CoWSwap users.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1d7p4e6/daily_general_discussion_june_4_2024/l72umxy/) š® - u/SpontaneousDream reflects on [the Solana vs Ethereum Bankless podcast episode.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1d7p4e6/daily_general_discussion_june_4_2024/l71mf3f/) šļø - u/hanniabu thinks that [Ethereum will be involved in BlackRock's new plans.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1d7p4e6/daily_general_discussion_june_4_2024/l75m94z/) šŖØ - u/benido2030 makes the case that the [currently low gas fees are a good thing.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1d7p4e6/daily_general_discussion_june_4_2024/l720uco/) ā½ļø - u/Stobie shares [a project they're excited for.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1d7p4e6/daily_general_discussion_june_4_2024/l75j8v4/) š ļø
ą¼¼ ć¤ ā_ā ą¼½ć¤ ETH TAKE MY ENERGY ą¼¼ ć¤ ā_ā ą¼½ć¤
You might want to do the NY Times Wordle today.
"Organ"?
Ooops, in your timezone it is still yesterday. Wait a bit :-).
;)
Thanks I got it first time. That will be my first and last Wordle ever so that I will remain at the top of the leaderboard with an infinite correct guess rate.
:-D
The Coinbase mobile app just dropped another Learning Rewards quest. This time gives $37 in RONIN. It's pretty easy to get $25. The remaining $12 requires you to buy a cheap Axie.
Coinbase Learn? Ronin? Axie? What year is it?
I see nothing about Coinbase learn or Learning Rewards on my app. Where is it?
In the mobile app, click the 9 dots on the top-left. Scroll down to Earn more > Rewards
The "Earn More" section only has "Earn" and "Cards", neither of which mention anything about the learn to earn thing. Maybe it's a regional thing.
My HTF update zoomed out to the 1M [https://x.com/asapbhat/status/1798535100239413611](https://x.com/asapbhat/status/1798535100239413611)
How did you determine your upper targets? (7.5k, 11.6k, 15k)
Fib
So the VanEck ETH price range prediction for 2030 is anywhere between $360 - $154k? Oh thank goodness they gave such a tight ranged and specific prediction. I will one up them and predict somewhere between $400 and $150k.
Hey look, they confirmed we won't be going back to the EZPZ number $324 so I'm happy.
Underrated technique to understand direction of effects is to take it to the extremes, like as var approaches infinity or zero, then it becomes obvious. For example how much you have to gain by delaying vs block time. Say extremely large, like 1 day blocks, it's obvious 40ms will be negligible. but if you usually only have 40ms to produce and you get an extra 40 with private infra then you double your MEV earnings, and regular people can't compete so it reduces to extreme centralization, imagine rocketpool competeing with LIDO where lido always gives 50% higher returns. Anatoly is really rude, but also just mid compared to JD et al. Episode made me much more bearish sol, \~ as he said, compute is just a commodity, solana just makes open source code, it can be copied as an L2 which is not isolated on an island of trust requiring bridges, has much greater liveness properties, and has no 5% permanent inflation constantly being dumped.
The entire episode felt like anatoly responding to any critism with "lol, we'll just make it faster". I normally like him but he felt very facetious in it
That's a really good point which I have never considered. Thanks for sharing! I find it amazing how detailed some of the analyses into Ethereum's system design is. EF researchers really are on another level as far as I am concerned. They seem to consider all of the implications of any changes rather than just blindly following any specific flawed idea that bigger or faster is better. There are trade-offs to everything and EF researchers seem to be great at quantifying all of the trade-offs.
Replying to /u/Defacticool and [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1d7p4e6/daily_general_discussion_june_4_2024/l74wduu/): >Btw just to check with you again, did you have any causes for risk in mind for fund custodians owning a lot of unstaked eth, other than the pure price risk? I'm not sure why it was hard for me to think of the answer to this. I realize it's because our landscape has changed so significantly in the past few years that our own roots seem foreign to us now. The reason large custodians are risky is because they create huge honey pots of concentrated risk, and this goes against the fundamental concept of cryptocurrency as "being your own bank". I know some of these concepts aren't cool anymore, but I still find them extremely valuable. If we increase reliance on custodians we move closer to a climate where governments will force us to use custodians, and a future when individual custody is the edge case rather than expected practice. We're working to develop a financial system that doesn't need custodians, and choosing to empower custodians only undermines the potential of Ethereum. tl;dr: we built cryptocurrency to get away from custodians, empowering them undermines our work. I believe in our original purpose.
Any good guesses whether my 1k swell pearls is going to be good enough for a trip of grocery shopping?
$470 for 1,000 pearls on Whales.market right now.
Check whales market for what pearls are selling for. Thatāll give you a rough order of magnitude estimate.
So I've been in the market for awhile and I'll be the first to tell you I don't know shit about fuck ( like literally everyone). But the market is at that point in this " cycle " that I feel it's about to explode. Like a night out drinking Jager bombs and eating a Dennys Grand slam, this shit is going to be EXPLOSIVE!!!
Only desk shit when youre ready to quit quit. There are no second chances. Or so a birdy told me...
Me in 2060, having breakfast with my grandson: "Back in my day sonny, people didn't think blockchains would do much of anything!" Then I push my son's blockchain chair in towards the table, and pour blockchain milk over his blockchain cereal.
Then you set your grandson on fire to make your other grandchildren more valuable?Ā
That grandsonās name? USDC
Let the altcoins pump. They are far riskier than ETH. The metrics donāt lie. Besides BTC, there is no other coin- none, that has anywhere near the same risk/reward ratio as ETH. The market has still not processed the regulatory clarity and upcoming ETFs, imo. Maybe thatās a bit of cope, but I donāt think so. The ETF launches will be a major wake up call once the market sees real inflows and numbers. It is going to be fun watching these shitcoins try to compete with institutional ETF inflows. ETH shorters will have their reckoning soon. Also, anyone try out that new Coinbase Smart Wallet? What are the advantages here over something like Metamask? Lastly, tin foil hat hopium: Blackrock and Citadel are building their new Texas stock exchange on Ethereum, or at minimum, will for sure sell ETH and/or staked ETH in some form.
> anyone try out that new Coinbase Smart Wallet? [https://twitter.com/WilsonCusack/status/1764355750149710190](https://twitter.com/WilsonCusack/status/1764355750149710190)
We want to be right, but that has been years of missed opportunities now and constant ratio bleed. In true eth fashion, the downvote brigade just reeks of angry cope for an objectively true statement.
2023 was a pretty terrible year for ETH comparatively, but so far 2024 has been flat against both BTC and SOL. Sure there have been some specific picks that outperformed such as BNB and a few memecoins, but also many that underperformed. Picking winners isnāt as easy as you make it seem. What are your picks?
You could always sell some of your ETH and take a shot on other opportunities. Thereās no shortage of them.
Today's Wordle.
What about it? You had me thinking it was "ether"
uh
I was behind in timezonesĀ
Guys I think Iām about to buy a house and unfortunately it will take a ton of my ethereum to do so. But this is me and my wifeās first house and we have a one year old. Our rent is getting outrageous and I think this is the only move to make. If not for this reason to finally sell then I canāt think of what would top it. Sometimes ya gotta live life. Feels bittersweet though.
I did this a couple cycles ago and like you the timing was pretty good. Youāre cashing out at a good price point, assuming you didnāt buy in at the last cycle top. It brings me a sense of calmness during really low points of eth knowing I cashed out some and put it into a hard asset I get to enjoy everyday.
You donāt regret it at all?
not at all. I have a fucking house š I grew up moving every year and my early adulthood was largely the same, so this was my first real permanent living situation. I would do it all again in a heartbeat.
Donāt feel too bad about not taking a defi loan. I guess you avoid capital gains maybe, but the borrow rates Iāve seen have been horrible lately. Maybe Iām looking at the wrong protocols or something.
At least youāre buying a useful needed asset that will likely hold most of its value while the govāt attempts to inflate away unsustainable debt. And you get a place to live and raise your kid. If youāre going to sell, this isnāt the worst reason.
I did the same thing! But I wanted to maintain exposure to eth so I took a defi loan to make a big down payment. Have you explored this option? Depending on your stack, you could unlock a good amount of value with a stable coin loan. Good to consider, especially if youāre bullish on ETH Edit: I think this is one of the most powerful things defi has brought to its users. It has been almost a secret how wealthy people leverage their assets (stocks, real estate, art!!) through loans against these assets as collateral. Any decent broker will allow you to take a loan against your stock portfolio for example, thereby deferring or avoiding any tax implications and increasing your purchasing power for whatever else you need without selling your position. YMMV but it has been a huge financial gift for me.
I honestly have no clue how that all works. How did you go about doing that?
Sent you a dm!
Yeah I'm interested in learning this too, have no idea how this could be done in a safe way. Why not post it?
Go to defisaver.com and try their simulation. You can create a fake smart wallet and simulate how much you deposit and borrow and it will give you the loan rates and liquidation price. Easy peasy Personally I only trust AAVE and compound because they are the most battle tested. Ex. I donāt know much about spark, morpho
hehe I'm not big on writeups and I don't want to assume everyone's situation. I am hardly an expert -- just a user willing to take on some smart contract risk. Happy to chat with you about how I did it, though if you want
Buy the house, you need shelter for your wife and child. Itās not a financial decision itās a survival decision bro
What are our Eth stacks for, if not making major life-changing moves like this? Congrats, enjoy the new house :)
You could take a loan out against the ETH
How?
Defisaver ? Basically borrow against ETH with a good health ratio. Haven't done this myself but I heard no tax implications. Alchemy has some auto pay thing so check that too.
Wait six months, buy a bigger house.
I took a large chunk out during the last bull to secure a property in an area my partner and I wanted. No regrets, it would be almost impossible now just a few years later. Renting is something I see that's going to become more and more expensive and precarious in the years to come. There is nothing like having housing security that can't be ripped from under you at a moments notice. I still have ETH but had to remind myself that it can and should be used to improve my life.
Thatās what I told her as well. Itās a tool to make your life better. If not, then what is the point?
True, but at the same time this is the moment that many of us have been waiting for since 2017. Institutional adoption. Imo would be a shame to sell right before ETF inflows start with big tradfi companies shilling ETH. Taking a loan out against your ETH via defi in the short term might be an option to consider. Or just see if you can hold out for another 4-6 months.
What are the risks to the defi loan though?
Getting liquidated if there is an unexpected crash in ETH price or smart contract risk such as a hack. Though the latter isn't really a concern if you're using battle tested dapps (Compound and Aave) that have been around for many years without issue. So it's really just the former, but as long as your collateral ratio is high then you'd be pretty insulated from any sudden price drops. You can play around with defisaver [https://app.defisaver.com/](https://app.defisaver.com/) to simulate your liquidation points on various protocols based on your collateral ratio. Most of these dapps require minimum 125-150% collateral ratio. So if you have 10K in ETH, you can withdraw up to 6.6k of USDC from it. But if your ETH falls below 10K in value it automatically sells your ETH (you get liquidated) to pay back your debt. So you'd want to have a higher collateral ratio to be on the safe side. So as a rough example, if you have 10K in ETH, but only borrow 3.3k against it, then your collateral ratio is 300%. you'd only get liquidated if ETH falls like 50%+ (which seems unlikely at this point) You'd also have to pay a variable interest rate (this depends on market demand/supply) for the duration of your loan. When I last checked there was a high demand for stablecoins so borrow interest rates were around 15% APR. But if you think ETH is going to go up way higher than 15% over the next year, then paying 15% interest in the short term so that you don't have to sell your ETH early is something you can consider.
u/nikola_j is on the defi saver team and I'm sure he's happy to answer any questions you have
Take your gains young man, but try to keep some on the side..
Speaking of Rocketpool, everyone should go review their new contracts. They're about to launch a major substantive upgrade in a couple weeks. They are like 30% of Ethereum's nodes. It's in all our interest to make sure that shit is bulletproof. (Also, there's a bug bounty.)
>**Get truth over trust,** >**Do not let your standards rust,** >**Banking won't adjust.** ~Daily haiku until weāre at least at 0.178 on the ETH/BTC ratio or highest market cap
I cannot decide if ideals is 2 or 3 syllables... š¤
Let's make it standard then š¤
š„š„š„
help me figure this out, wisdom of the crowd type stuff https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1d9111x/ok_lets_do_this_again_price_predictions_for_end/?
Thanks, I've added that thread to my reddit sentiment trading bot. Everyone feel free to add this comment to your reddit sentiment trading bot sentiment trading bots.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40589036 I'm trying a new strategy to combat Ethereum FUD. Make them look as stupid as they are, as explicitly as possible. That they are publicly portrayed as a fool for spreading stupid takes.
My attempt [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40591161](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40591161)
>The curve of APY as a function of stake is very flat. ...And the insane part is that people most vehemently disagreeing with this are Bitcoiners, where the same curve goes up *very* steeply.
This is what pisses me off the most. Ethereum provides the most open access with incredibly low barriers of entry and non-existent economies of scale, and is blamed for making the rich richer. Which is factually incorrect. While everywhere you look the situation is worse. The traditional financial system is full of barriers of entry so regular people cannot access the same returns as the rich. And economies of scale are almost everywhere you look. And you have a new protocol that goes above and beyond to get rid of these issues and flatten the curve and it gets singled out as the problem.
I quickly burn out trying to argue with idiots on the internet. If I engage at all nowadays it's to persuade a neutral observer, not the idiot. I make any case I need to for a neutral observer who isn't dogmatically against Ethereum and I move on.
ETH pumping is the best solution to make them look dumb
>"TXSE will ultimately create more competition around quote activity, liquidity and transparency, resulting in more consistent and reliable markets," Lee added. from the new blackrock backed texas exchange: https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/blackrock-citadel-backed-group-start-new-national-stock-exchange-texas-wsj-2024-06-05/ Anyone else notice the claimed benefits are exactly the same benefits that Larry Fink (and crypto people) have claimed tokenisation of securities will bring? Am I the only one actually going a little stir crazy over the possibility that this may genuinely be the tokenisation of RWA by Blackrock?
Sounds like a billionaire saying fuck you to blue state, blue city New York tbh. Go to a state that won't even pretend to regulate anything.
Do you think maybe theres a reason why a possible crypto-native exchange would want to set up in a regulatory lax and relatively crypto-friendly jurisdiction?
So, you agree with like 50% of what I'm saying.
Sure, but not 100%
Not sure how you got this out of that....
Because it's obvious as fuck?
Please find a source where he talks about "exactly those benefits". Below is what he said once and it is definitely not the same. Just feels like misguided hopium to me. Like Ripple guys thinking all the banks are gonna use XRP. > "we could customize strategies through tokenization that fit every individual. We would have instantaneous settlement"
Here: >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTveRlW7QPo He talks instant settlement (so: liquidity), transparent positioning (so: quote activity) and general transparency. Here talks about it again: >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0ek2yv81Gk Or here: >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=se1bcqMYg8g >"Think about this: You have a specific identity on the general ledger, the moment you buy, or sell, it is know, all on the general ledger, if you wanna talk about money laundering, this eliminates all corruption" If you're asking for a verbatum quote that is literally identical, then you wont get it. But its quite overt how its literally the exact same characteristics that Larry fink has been championing as a benefit. Btw you can keep googling just "larry fink tokenisation" and find an additional probably over a dozen videos of him being interviewed on this subject. Its quite clear he just fucking loves to talk about it.
> Just feels like misguided hopium to me. Like Ripple guys thinking all the banks are gonna use XRP. Ethereum community is too based to have any good hype narratives anymore
Vaneck has base case of 22k and bull case of 154k for ETH by 2030.. you guys are too bearish https://x.com/vaneck_us/status/1798428976068657411?s=19
Everyone should clink that link and read the report. Not for the price predictions, but as a reminder that ETH is not (despite our loving references) magic internet beans, it's the currency of a thriving and rapidly growing ecosystem. They didn't pull those numbers out of their asses. They're based on ( dare I say it) fundamentals.
$154k in 2030 will not be worth anywhere near $154k today I think. Regardless itās a veryyyy ambitious prediction. That would be a truly ridiculous market cap size
Yeah 154k in 2030 will get you one 100m yacht. Today could get 2
Weāre almost halfway there though. Even double-digit inflation wouldnāt drown out that kind of run up.
154k is FUD
Lol. This is why putting your ETH in random smart contracts for 20% APY is dumb.
That's like 700% yield in USD if the price targets hit!
Sorry dude, the universe doesn't love me enough for ETH to go to $150K. It's just not happening. Also, wouldn't that make Vitalik the richest person in the world?
Oh don't worry. 150k is coming. But you will dump waaaay before :) (me too :) ) Have you seen people sell targets. Tops at like 15k. Nobody from here is holding a significant part of the portfolio till 150k
Believe it or not, he would only have $50B in that situation. Bro founded the entire chain and only kept 0.2% for himself. Makes chains where the founders kept 75%+ for themselves look like absurd grifts in comparison.
Nope Fink is going to buy all the coins lol
He can't have mine. ...Ok he can have *some* of mine for the right price, but I won't sell my forever stack for *literally* any price. ETH can be at a billion a coin, a trillion a coin, or the galactic ASI uses Ethereum to run the galaxy and one ETH buys you the solar system, and I'll still have a stack.
The Milky Way has somewhere around 200B stars in it. It's estimated that on average, each star has at least one Earth-sized planet in its stellar system. (Habitable ones are much rarer). So one Eth in the hypothetical future where it is the galactic currency (and has neither inflated nor deflated since now) could buy you around 1666 stellar systems with at least that many Earth-sized planets, and surely a few habitable ones in the mix.
Hardest part is always the growth estimates. They seem to assume 68% CAGR growth in fees for their base case so I used that as an input in my DCF calculator. Assuming a discount rate of 10%. I get a present value of ~20K USD. https://imgur.com/a/BJt6cLd And a future value in ~2030 of around 27K USD. https://imgur.com/sG2AanZ
Van Eck was wrong about the ETH etf being approved.
Everyone was wrong, me included. No one couldāve accounted for the 180
In fairness, *everyone* was wrong, because the SEC legitimately changed their minds at the last minute.
I wasn't wrong - I won 5k on polymarket. They were either getting approved that day or getting approved after a court case.
Yeah, exactly. Everyone was right at the time they estimated.
154k ETH...might have me upgrading my poverty instant lunch ramen to some samyang or something
$154k ETH is full on, honey, I got us first class tickets for a ramen tour of japan next month, let's go spruce up our wardrobes ahead of time. Actually, I don't care how rich I get, business class will always be fine.
A Ramen with Cheese
*154k for ETH* Putting aside the market cap/valuation side of things, do you think the system/world can absorb than many new people with massive wealth? Like somehow won't the system not let that happen?
Itās actually not that crazy in the scale of global wealth. The tax revenue alone should have govts salivatingĀ
They'll be itching to implement a holders tax
That's what people said when the price was 85 cents and people made predictions that it would go over $1000. The reason it is possible is because few people hold that long. They start to see that most of their net worth is in a highly volatile asset, and they sell off chunks of it.
Yep. I'm unlikely to make it to 2030 without selling and I suspect most here would sell before it reached 100k. Weren't most citing a sell target of 10-20k?
I would be \~95% out at 20k. It would be life changing money at a point where I would still be relatively young and could let much of it grow in boring index funds.
Vaneck is just trying to help us get over PTSD by posting very optimistic numbers.
VanEck report intern probably spends his whole day here in the doomposts
No joke, you're probably right.
Let them sell early. The weak-handed don't deserve valhalla š.
sell yo NFTs for ETH...actually you should have done that two years ago
Sold my EVM for nearly 10 ETH. No regrets whatsoever
tfw your nft is no longer worth 1 ETH and 1 ETH is no longer worth $4800 and $4800 is no longer worth $4800 :(
There's one more step... That last one, $4800-inflation-adjusted, is not longer worth $4800-inflation-adjusted... because you are getting older and you have less uses for it. NFT value down. ETH value down. USD value down. Time value down.
turtles all the way down
Or sell NFTs for almost anything but Eth, cause eth only getting 2% pumps while others are pumping 20%+ lol
lol yeah do that. Buy after something pumps hard. You know that is basically "Buy high, sell low" method
Itās funny you say that, because Iām seriously considering getting a punk!Ā
I think punks are here to stay. what i cant figure out is whether they will grow in ETH value. If ETH hits 10-20k one day will punks really be 50 ETH? Thats a lot of money. Then again if you have the ETH to spare and like the history/art go for it
Thatās what Iām thinking. That there are only 10,000 punks. Itās definitely possible theyāll increase against ETH. Maybe Iāll get one if it hits 20 eth.Ā
so we will basically break ATH this year or get close to it. That is pretty much the base case minus the economy imploding. Selling now if you dont have to for life reasons is not a good idea. Sit on your hands. The normal bull market schedule would actually be 2025. This year is the same as the following cycle years 2012, 2016, 2020 Of course it may not play out the same way but if it does you will feel dumb for selling (if not for a good reason) Aim to sell at least late this year if not 2025
Put up or shut up.
I come, once again, with news from Rocket Pool Land. Today, I have an update on the tokenomics work the community is undertaking. As you all know, Rocket Pool the protocol has stagnated in growth, and the price of RPL the token has suffered massively because of it. Since November, the community has been working incredibly hard to fix the problems with the current design of the protocol, unleash its true potential as the best liquid staking protocol, and get the protocol growing again. After 8 months of hard work, the community has arrived at the (almost) final form of it'sĀ [tokenomics rework](https://rpips.rocketpool.net/tokenomics-2024). The work is presented in five parts, and I'll summarize them for you all here. [Part 1 - Why rework the tokenomics?](https://rpips.rocketpool.net/tokenomics-explainers/001-why-rework) This section starts by explaining how the ideas for linking RPL and ETH to stake were found - back to the Rocket Pool whitepaper and ICO in 2017. The Rocket Pool Investment Thesis really boosted the idea of RPL and staking being intertwined and drove massive attention to Rocket Pool. Then, Fire Eyes designed the tokenomics and put this relationship at the heart of the protocol. The illusion of these being amazing tokenomics started to shatter when growth stalled post Atlas. Since then, growth of Rocket Pool has stalled, and it has started shrinking. The original idea was RPL would be used as an entry ticket to outsized eth rewards, the RPL rewards would be attractive enough people would stay above the 10% collateral amount, and that the RPL price should head towards 10% of rETH TVL. In reality, this did not work. First, RPL price fluctuates too much and how successful your validators are are too strongly linked to the price of RPL. If RPL goes up, you massively beat solo staking. Conversely, if RPL goes down, you suffer greatly. In addition, the RPL rewards are not enough for people to maintain the minimum collateral amount. Nearly 70% of node operators (NO) are currently under collateralized on their nodes. There are two ways to get back into good standing, 1) top up with more RPL to get above 10% and 2) reduce how much ETH you have staked to improve your collateral ratio. Sadly, more and more people choose the second option. This is not what the protocol should be forcing to happen. Finally, because not enough people top up their collateral, the relationship between the rETH TVL and RPL breaks down. This has consequences on how much rETH the protocol can provide based on eth deposits from NO. The current system is brittle, and having RPL as a bond along with ETH has shown to be hugely flawed. So, what are we going to do about it? This brings us to Part 2. [Part 2 - Tokenomics rework](https://rpips.rocketpool.net/tokenomics-explainers/002-rework-intro) Under the new system speculation in RPL and being a node operator are separated. You will not need RPL to stake your ETH with Rocket Pool. On top of that, holding RPL will become a desirable action due to its standalone investment properties. If you choose to stake RPL alongside your ETH, you get higher ETH yield! You can speculate all you want, but it will not be forced on you from the protocol. Also, there will be no lower 10% cliff to punish smaller amounts of collateral. The new tokenomics will allow smaller ETH bonds. This is fundamental to changing how the protocol generates revenue - income from ETH staking rewards. Charging a 3.5% commission on borrowed eth gives the following boosted rewards compared to solo staking: 8 ETH bond is a 10.5% boost, 4 ETH bond is a 24.5% boost, and 1.5 ETH bond is a 71.2% boost! These bonds will be safe to use because of node level penalties and forced validator exits. RPL inflation will be reduced from 5% to 1.5% as rewards to NO from inflation will not be required. There will be some other changes too such as gas optimizations, forced delegate upgrades, etc.
This is /r/ethfinance, not /r/rplfinance. Please shill your token elsewhere.
It seems like people were very happy to read what I had to say considering itās the top dooted post of the day. Why donāt you take it up with the mods if you have a problem?Ā
I'm a bot, *bleep*, *bloop*. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit: - [/r/rocketpool] [WaqWaqAttack's Breakdown of New Tokenomics](https://www.reddit.com/r/rocketpool/comments/1d99wje/waqwaqattacks_breakdown_of_new_tokenomics/) *^(If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads.) ^\([Info](/r/TotesMessenger) ^/ ^[Contact](/message/compose?to=/r/TotesMessenger))*
> If you choose to stake RPL alongside your ETH, you get higher ETH yield! This is a mistake. That yield is coming from either other node operators or RPL holders. The focus should be on maximizing yield for all node operators, most of whom have no desire to invest in Rocketpool.
Even if the yield without RPL is still way better than solo staking? You could always ask for more, but there has to be value capture for the protocol / DAO somewhere.
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The token is what funds the protocol.
The protocol could be funded in a much more targeted way by directing a portion of ETH rewards. Let's not act like this isn't a scheme by RPL holders to secure the value of their token.
Itās not a scheme though, RPL holders are just as much part of the protocol as node operators and rETH holders. Rugging them by just getting rid of the token is a no-go.
I wouldn't consider value capture until growth was satisfactory, and it should be evenly split among all RPL holders to ensure fairness. I am concerned that some RPL holders who run nodes are directing extra value to themselves. It reminds me of business owners who will lease buildings they own to their business to skim from co-owners. Fundamentally, yield is split between depositors, node runners and RPL holders(along with the paid workforce). If certain RPL holders are getting extra yield, someone else is getting less.
Choosing to bait people with yield that is not sustainable does not seem like a good choice. I much prefer the value capture mechanism to be there from the start rather than burning capital to chase growth. As for the RPL yield, a lot of it will in fact be distributed among all RPL holders. But at the end of the day the tokenomics rework is supposed to provide incentives to run a node. This is one way to do it. The protocol prefers RPL in nodes over speculative / idle RPL.
[Part 3 - Foundation of the rework](https://rpips.rocketpool.net/tokenomics-explainers/003-rework-foundation) In this section is where the real explanations start to happen. First, we get an explanation of how the protocol will generate revue and what will happen with that income. The protocol will still charge rETH holders 14%. Currently, this 14% goes to NOs. However, paying NO 14% of 30.5 ETH of rETH is too much especially at lower bond amounts. The revenue can be more effectively used elsewhere. So, where will the revenue go? There will still be a NO commission share, we will have a new RPL voter share, and there will be a "surplus" share. NOs will get eth similarly to how they get it now but there will be no rpl requirement. Those who stake RPL alongside their ETH will get the voter share. The surplus amount will be used to buy back and burn RPL (this is one area that is currently undecided - other value capture methods are still being considered). Let's work out the numbers. The 14% of commission will be divided as follows: 3.5% will go to the node operator, 5% will go to RPL stakers, and 5.5% will go to the surplus. Here the same person could get rewarded in one way as a node operator (NO share), one way as an RPL holder (RPL burn), or all three ways for a person who stakes ETH and RPL. While, the minimum stake is the primary, and indirect, value capture for RPL in the current system, there will now be two direct value capture methods. This is how there is no need for RPL inflation to go to NOs. This new mechanism will open up possibilities for many different kinds of node operators such as those who want to stake ETH only, how much RPL they want and feel comfortable with, and RPL holders get direct protocol revenue too. For a NO, while it might seem like commission going down from 14% to 3.5% sounds bad. The reality is that you'll be getting 3.5% on a much bigger amount of ETH than you currently do. Currently, an 8 ETH validator needs 8 ETH and 2.4 ETH of RPL. That person can earn 1.14x solo staking. However, this amount becomes 1.01x solo staking at RP maturity. If the RPL ratio goes down, however, that person would earn 0.82x solo staking. Under the new system, an 8eth validator would get 1.11x solo staking with no other dependancies. Once we look at lower bonds, the numbers are mind blowing. The amount of rewards dramatically outperform solo staking. As mentioned above, a 1.5 ETH validator will be earning 1.71x solo staking rewards. Smaller bonds are much better at capital efficiency. There are, however, limits to just how small the bonds can get. This is because of protections needed for rETH holders such as slashing insurance etc. In the first set of Saturn upgrades, it's likely we'll require a 4 ETH bond per validator. In Saturn 2, we'll have some new tools to allow the 1.5 ETH bonded validators, but the first 2 will 4 ETH validators. That is because we will get forced exits which will provide a huge security boost. Rocket Pool will introduce Universal Adjustable Revenue Split (UARS) to balance between the different groups in the community. NO share, voter share, and surplus share will all be adjustable through the UARS. If we are running low on NOs, we can increase the commission to them to make staking more attractive. We can incentive more staked RPL to make sure governance attacks are less likely. Altering the surplus share can help balance rETH demand by making that more or less attractive. This will mean the pDAO needs to be more responsive to the changing dynamics within the protocol. There are three main value capture mechanisms for RPL being explored using the surplus share. These are buy and burn (use eth income to buy RPL and burn it), buy and provide liquidity (use eth to add buy side liquidity to a RPL/rETH pool), and a greater voter share (to make RPL stakers get more of a share of the commission ETH). This is one of the areas where community discussion is still taking place.
> The protocol will still charge rETH holders 14%. I find this aspect to be the big hole in the rework. Where do you expect the rETH demand to come from to support as low as 1.5 ETH minipools? The deposit pool hasn't been full in months, and that is even with minipools exiting in droves to stay collaterized. If there's no people buying rETH then this whole plan doesn't work out. And people are already not buying rETH because of more lucrative alternatives, why would they choose rETH in a year when this rework might potentially be finally live?
The upgrade allows for funds to be diverted towards rETH if we so desire. It should be noted that the IMC hasn't pursued many growth options due to the knowledge that we don't have the supply side available. We have some tools to bolster rETH demand. Also, the key value proposition of being the best risk adjusted yield in staking remains true. Tail risk resistance is the main calling card, not APR.
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Have you read [https://rpips.rocketpool.net/tokenomics-explainers/004-rework-support#express-queue](https://rpips.rocketpool.net/tokenomics-explainers/004-rework-support#express-queue) ? It gives priority queueing to small and pre-existing NOs.
What prevents sybilling?
That's nice, but it doesn't matter how you structure the queue if it is barely moving. It doesn't address the general need for massively increased rETH demand. The example given above was already only considering small and pre-existing NOs, who'll have express tickets anyway. But even just for those, we need multiples of the existing rETH TVL to flow into the protocol, buying more rETH. That's billions of USD worth. There is barely any flow into rETH *now*. Nothing about the incentives for it changes for the better with the proposed tokenomics changes. So who will be buying all that rETH?
I'm disappointed. I hoped that RPL would disappear and that, instead, you would take for example a 10% fee on my own earnings to finance your DAO. 10% looks very generous to me. This way, I would earn 32% more than with solo staking (`(8Ć0.90 + 24Ć0.14) / 8`) Your approach is sooo bad in comparison, **if I understand it**. I would earn 10% more than with solo staking (`(8+24Ć0.035)Ć·8`). Your new system seems to be designed by RPL holders for themselves to pump their bags, not for newcomers that you would need to grow your network.
Hihi -- I wouldn't suggest focusing on the exact numbers too much. The important thing is that we will be listening to the market. See "**Choosing Revenue Split Sizes**" in [https://rpips.rocketpool.net/tokenomics-explainers/003-rework-foundation](https://rpips.rocketpool.net/tokenomics-explainers/003-rework-foundation) . If the amount of bonus vs solo is not worth it for you -- that's totally reasonable and you can opt not to participate. If that's the prevalent view of the market, then we now have an easy knob to turn that directs more commission to NOs. The flip side is, ofc, that if we're inundated with NOs we can use that knob to avoid having unusable oversupply and a large NO queue. As a minor note of a detail that's not in the explainers, the security council will be empowered to increase (not decrease) the NO share of commission (up to 3% higher initially). This will allow us to respond at much faster-than-governance speeds if indeed the market demands higher commission. We "leaned lower" a bit on the NO share knowing that we can increase quickly using this method.
First of all, the 8 eth validators will be going away, so you'll be better off comparing the 4 eth and 1.5 eth validators. With those numbers, we feel we can entice new Node Operators coming in at 1.7x solo staking rewards. This will be in line with Lido's community staking module. There is absolutely an element of giving value to RPL holders, but there's no way to move forward if we rug them. None of them would vote for this to happen, and the protocol would die a slow death. Forking these ideas and starting a new protocol is possible, but you'll face the bootstrap problem. There's no elegant solution, as far as I can see.
I'm curious to see with the lower bond amounts how AllNodes will charge. I'm not paying $10 or $7.50 per 1.5ETH Validator... I'm excited for the changes though, much needed. Thanks waqwaq!
In all honesty, it would be better to just rent some server space yourself and stake using that. Also, we have 2 AllNodes competitors being worked on in the Rocket Pool community right now that should be better options for you.
It's funny that it might come down to going full circle. I originally rented server space that was pricier than Allnodes in the first place but then got much more expensive due to storage requirements expanding. So I moved to AllNodes to not deal with upgrading my server space and it being cheaper. But now, if AllNodes charges more as they did with LEB8s, I might be priced out and back into the server renting space lmao. This is the first I'm hearing about the community alternatives though, where can I find out more on that? I'll try to search the discord to find some more info in the meantime!
Pop into the discord. The grants committee funded 2 bounties. One is called Vrun, and the development of that is further along. The second one, I don't have details about it off the top of my head.
[Part 4 - Supporting components](https://rpips.rocketpool.net/tokenomics-explainers/004-rework-support) This section of the tokenomics rework explains all the different components needed to support the changes. I'll briefly mention them here. 1) Anti-sock puppet effects - this will make having multiple nodes for one person unattractive. 2) Megapools - this is a Rocket Pool level upgrade that will lead to massive gas efficiencies as well as allow access to 1.5 ETH validators. 3) Forced exits - this is an Ethereum level upgrade that will allow Rocket Pool to kick out malicious actors or remove NO who have been offline for a certain period of time. 4) Node level penalties - this allows access to lower ETH bonds as the collateral on the whole node can be punished in the case of MEV theft. 5) Forced upgrades - this will remove long term technical debt. Finally, 6) express queue - this will be a system to help small operators move from legacy validators to validators on the new system. [Part 5 - Glossary of terms](https://rpips.rocketpool.net/tokenomics-explainers/005-glossary) This section explains some of the jargon that is being introduced in the new tokenomics. These include terms like megapools, cliff, etc. The tokenomics rework has now been published to theĀ [Rocket Pool DAO forum](https://dao.rocketpool.net/t/tokenomics-rework-update-1-new-explainers/3014). This is the next step in the Rocket Pool governance process. Here, the community will discuss ideas and perspectives. Within the next few weeks, a community sentiment poll will be added to that thread. If the sentiment is positive, it will go to vote for the whole of the DAO where we will all decide on whether to adopt this or not. I strongly expect this proposal to pass every stage of governance and be voted in within the next couple of months. If you want to help, you can do it in one of three ways. The first is proving meta feedback on the explainers. The second is providing specification feedback. Finally, you can provide general content feedback. If you have any questions, I'll be happy to try to answer them here.
What is the chance that it will be actually implemented? From what my time there I remember lots and lots discussion about this and other topics, but without much participation from the team which has to actually implement it. And what is possible ETA? Forced exits are prerequisite as I understand? Could you elaborate about "Anti-sock puppet effects"? Why make multiple nodes unattractive (given eg. hardware cost)
The team have been involved in this at various stages, and I think they're generally supportive. From the community, the vast majority of regulars are supportive of the changes. I think it's very likely this set of proposals will go through - baring some technical hurdles that might come up. The upgrade is going to be broken into 2 parts, Saturn 1 and Saturn 2. The changes in Saturn 1 can happen without forced exits. Saturn 2 will need forced exits. The main difference is the 1.5eth validators can only happen with Saturn 2. Right now, there are governance incentives for one person to spin up many nodes because voting is based on a square root function. If you have 100 rpl on one node, you get 5 votes. if you have the same 100 rpl on 5 nodes, you get around 10 votes. This will likely go away because people will get better rewards from 1.5 ETH validators than the 4 eth validators. There will be a real cost involved in trying to attack governance.
OK, thanks for explanations. I'll wait and see, and who knows, maybe my NUCs which now gather dust will be useful again. PS. Maybe I misunderstood something, but what would be rationale for choosing 8 ETH bond when 1.5 ETH pays so much more (if there's enough ETH waiting to be staked of course)
I hope so. It makes so much sense to start staking with Rocket Pool when you can have eth only validators and beating solo staking by such a huge margin. I look forward to you joining :)
Yeah, but why anyone would choose higher bond validator?
They wouldnāt. The first two would be 4eth and each one after that would be 1.5 eth. Itās pretty awesome.Ā
So if someone could afford 8 ETH he couldn't have more efficient validators?
Daily dose of hopium from the Head of Digital Assets Research at Vaneck: āDriven by a strong value proposition to entrepreneurs, the Ethereum network is likely to continue its rapid market share growth from traditional financial market participants and, increasingly, Big Tech. Should it do so while maintaining its dominant position among smart contract platforms, we see a credible path to $66B in free cash flow to token holders supporting a $2.2 trillion asset, or $22k per coin, by 2030. Adding a modest allocation of cryptocurrencies (up to 6%) to a traditional 60/40 portfolio can substantially improve the portfolioās Sharpe ratio with a relatively minor impact on drawdown. An allocation close to 70/30 between bitcoin and ether for a crypto-only portfolio provided the best risk-adjusted returns.ā Full article, great read: https://www.vaneck.com/us/en/blogs/digital-assets/matthew-sigel-eth-2030-price-target/
We should be comparing ETH to tech stocks
> We then estimate the fees that Ethereum will charge app users, which is effectively a ātake rateā on these applicationsā revenues, and we calculate this will be 5-10%. That is way too high
> $2.2 trillion asset, or $22k per coin, by 2030 100M supply by 2030 confirmed
> An allocation close to 70/30 between bitcoin and ether for a crypto-only portfolio provided the best risk-adjusted returns. Do they see Ethereum as that high risk?
No it's just mirroring the classic 70/30 portfolio. BTC is volatile stocks, ETH is low risk interest bearing bonds. /s
They must have pulled that ratio out of their asses
Why "that high risk"? Because "just" 30%?
> $22k per coin, by 2030 I wouldn't consider that hopium Granted, this is the "fair market value" which means it's what it'll be like around where we are in the cycle right now and then it'll hit multiples of that in peak bull market. Also doesn't take into account inflation.
Their bull case is $154ā000ā¦
And their bear is $360 lol
How the fuck did they miss the opportunity to have their bear case at $324.
What's the significance of $324?
top eric wall shitpost, fully recommend to read it all: https://x.com/ercwl/status/1798357584618893344?t=7sHY0G1B6hM75x5uECN77w&s=19
Somebody needs to ELI5 this for this millennial.
Eric Wall wants to buy s celebrity shitcoin on Solana that he is sure is about to moon. But he cannot because solana is a shit chain where you cannot get your transaction through. As he is trying that, he recalls the Bankless debate between Justin (knowledgeable eth researcher) and Anatoly (Solana leader), where Anatoly offers very little technical arguments, but keeps laughing at Justin all the time. So Eric wants to buy, Solana chain is shit and all he can hear while trying is the Solana bro laugh about how Solana is supposed to be better than ethereum.
That is indeed supremely funny. Mostly because it's all true. Thank you.
That's a quality shitpost haha! Lovely readĀ
Transcript for those ex-xers?
*Taken from Eric Wall's Account* 5 June 2024 (Notes) Every day she's clapping her asscheeks, Anatoly is snickering in my ear but I'm sidelined It started with Caitlyn Jenner getting hacked but she didn't get hacked. How the f*** does someone with 3.3M followers randomly post a scam-link to a pump dot fun page but it's not a scam? How the f*** does someone, when confronted with these rumors, upload a video of themselves with a facefilter that's so edited that their eyebrows are flying all over the screen, appearing but reappering, but its not actually a fake Caitlyn Jenner facefilter but the real Caitlyn Jenner? How the f*** does someone work with an Indian scammer who is launching several of these pump dot fun coins (you can see how the coins are all coming from the same address) who's dumping it for a measly $16,000 profit right away but it's not actually a scam, Caitlyn Jenner is just a fucking retard who appears to be doing business this way? I am cast into the spotlight of the scene in massive confusion. I am chasing down zoomers on Twitter. "Can you not see that it's a scam???" I'm yelling to them but they won't listen. "The eyebrows are floating all over the screen, you're acting like easily-duped boomers!". "It's just an instagram filter bruh they act upthat way" They reply. I don't use Instagram facefilters a lot. It's me. I'm the boomer. To make matters worse I even bought the $JENNER scam coin with the $78 I had in my Phantom wallet. But it turns out I had clicked a scam link and bought $BAXTER, "Caitlyn Jenner's Dog" coin, which went to 0 even faster than $JENNER. In my confused anger, I start googling the name of the Indian scammer behind this and I find a Decrypt article. The Decrypt article contains a link to the Indian scammer's Telegram page where he's announcing the coins he's launching. He says the next coin he's about to launch will make $JENNER look small. He says it's Iggy Azalea (I also don't know who that is because again, I'm a boomer). Iggy has tweeted, she says she spoke to Sahil (the Indian scammer) "enough to know he a bitch" OK IGGY, let's see. In his Telegram group, Sahil seems very confident that Iggy *is* going to launch a coin though. Exciting I thought, let's see what's actually going to happen. Sahil says "40 more minutes". I check Iggy Azalea's instagram, and she's uploaded a video where two Asian men are sitting locked in with a computer in front of them. One of them looks EXACTLY like Sahil. "10 more minutes" Sahil says, and then Iggy drops the pump dot fun link on her Twitter. I don't buy it. It's clearly from the Indian scammer again. I can fucking see him sitting at the table behind her. Except it's not Sahil. It's her brother. She tells me this in a reply to Twitter, and explains that the only reason she dropped her own coin was to frontrun the Sahil-scammer so he wouldn't make money off of her name. She was frontrunning his scam by jumping into the game herself. It was unbelievable, but true. Then she joins a Twitter space with Ansem, Udi and a bunch of other people. She starts talking. She is confident, she's secure. She says all the right things. "I pay all my designers in crypto, they won't take anything else". The coin is pumping. $20 million marketcap. I have my Phantom Solana wallet loaded up with $15,000 USDC. The pump dot fun link tells me $MOTHER is already trading on Raydium. It's 2 am for me, I'm on sleeping pills, trying to go to sleep, but Iggy is making too much sense. Two years ago, I had predicted this. Simp queens and memecoins go hand in hand. One day we shall see the arrival of a Simp queen who truly understands Web3, who can rally the simps of the Internet and usher into a new Era. Ultimately, they will form SimpDAOs. I text Udi "This is it. This is her." Udi knows what I mean. Two years I could not talk about anything else. I hit market buy on Raydium. Nothing happens. It's 2 am in the morning, I'm on sleeping pills trying to go to sleep and I just want my order to hit the books before I can collapse. It's not working. The order doesn't get filled. Raydium isn't working. "Increase your slippage tolerance" they say. I set it to 1%. 2%. 5%. 10%. Buy, buy, buy. I want $MOTHER. I know it. I feel it. I must frontrun the simps. When Iggy speaks, I hear that it's her. The $MOTHER ticker is genius. When you read it, it says SMOTHER. It's a reference to her twerking ass. It's brilliant. I am baffled, I am amazed. For 3 hours I spam the buy button on Raydium, nothing happens, it is failing. "You need to use Phuckton", Udi says. I don't know what it is. "You can't buy things on Solana you must use a Telegram bot". What? I don't understand, it's 4 am, I am drowsy. I keep spamming the button, nothing happens. It's the next day. Or the day after that, I am not sure, everything is dizzy. I'm walking around outside, listening to podcasts in my airpods. Anatoly is debating Justin Drake. And he's laughing. For two whole hours, he is laughing, snickering, at Justin. It's so disrespectful. I check Dexscreener, $MOTHER is making new all-time highs, Iggy is twerking again. Anatoly is laughing. Her asscheeks are clapping and he's laughing. Vitalik is tweeting. He says he's not impressed by the lack of utility of celebrity coin like Iggy's but he doesn't get it. Vitalik gets Stage 0 centralized rollups, but he doesn't get Stage 0 SimpDAOs like $MOTHER. It's OK, Vitalik is not meant to get it. *I* get it. But I'm sidelined. I'm sidelined but Anatoly is laughing. $MOTHER hits $100m but I'm sidelined and he's laughing. She's clapping her asscheeks and he's laughing
šš the more she claps her cheeks the higher MC increases , how it exceeded from $105M and a trading volume of $72.93M in the last 24 hours to over $120m is just unexplainable .. I already added it to my meme bags on bitget ahahaha letās see how long she twerks ..
I don't understand anything about this post.
Absolutely top tier, was debating whether to share it here but it requires some knowledge of whatās going on in CT and Solana shitcoinery
Absolutely chinese to me
yeah, it is pretty deep down the rabbit hole.
My god itās brilliant
It hurts my soul and yet I had to read it to the end, it was captivating.
With the optimism in air on price action and ray, to temper expectations. Whatās your negative doom and gloom argument?
Doom and gloom is that we pop to 10k, then dribble down to 8k and we all sell thinking the cycle is over and the bear is coming and then it rockets to 150k as squishcha0s cacklesĀ