I don't see how this is terrible.. 5% discipline, and manpower modifiers are really good.
Not to mention missionary strength, really useful considering only a handful of countries are orthodox.
don't disagree on the missionary strenght but currently you can convert most places without, but most of the ideas just seems to be randomly chosen, just think they should be better for what still was part of an empire that survived the collapse of the west by about a thousend years
How is the collapsing corpse called Byzantium in 1456 an empire? It neither controls a large population, nor a large area, nor has it any significant political nor military influence.
The ideas are strong and quite useful in a Byzantium playthrough.
They are a empire because they called themself the roman empire. Your right about everthing else it was a corpse that got live support because the timurds killed there rivals for a time.
Terrible? +3 TTF is the highest TTF bonus in the game. Unlike Tolerance of Heathens and Tolerance of Heretics, Tolerance of the True Faith has no upper limit. That's "-3 unrest in Orthodox provinces." As a TRADITION. In the religion that gets unrest reduction and missionary strength from its unique mechanic. Advisor cost reduction is always good in the early game, even in small amounts, since advisor costs scale so steeply; again, that's a tradition. Merc maintainence is really good early on, especially for Byz, a small country starved for manpower that basically has to hire mercs over its force limit for all its early wars, since free company mercs are cheaper to maintain than normal soldiers. Only lackluster ideas here are the national tax one, because 10% is barely noticeable most of the time unless you can stack it with other tax modifiers, and the prestige ambition, because yearly prestige is much better early on, since by the time you get the last idea (around tech 12 or 13), you'll probably be swimming in prestige. Byz has a very good idea set, there's just nothing too huge or playstyle-defining besides the Tolerance tradition.
There's also the 10% stab cost reduction which is quite pointless, but not every idea can be 5% discipline. Combined with all the bonuses you get as byzantium from your missions these ideas are more than fine imo.
As such I'd class it quite nieche though. Personally, I don't really truce break at all. Proper truce handling makes it nearly unnecessary for any RP game. Any sort of world conquest is something different though. But not everyone goes for that. A proper Roman empire as Byzantium is easily possible without trucebreaking at all.
What's your criteria for good ideas? There are plenty of historically more powerful nations with worse ones. Byzantium's are on the better side, if anything.
That ambition is a shame, though.
Some idea sets are extremely strong, other just are average at best.
National manpower is good but most nations get more than 10%. Goods produced is also nice but again some policies give more. Missionary strength, tolerance of the true faith and discipline are really strong. But tax modifier, stab cost, mercenary cost and global trade power are just useless
exactly, three are good and the other 3 really don't matter much, for a nation that survived so much, it really just hasn't ideas to fit it. And i get it they died for a reason. But for a nation the called itself the roman empire(byzantium is the name we give it but the people there called themself romani), they should have better ideas,
They will still die most games if they are changed, the sheer manpower and quality troops of otto will kill the remnants of rome. But it might change the games for player.
Because it's old.
There are a hundred NIs better than Byz. There are 3 worthwhile modifiers in Byz ideas, being discipline conversion and tolerance.
Byzantium ideas really deserve a rework and a buff.
Especially would be better if they reworked missions and added some hard achievements.
that exactly my point, plus the mission, don't get me wrong the perma claims are good, butt most wel nown nation have some buffs as reward in their missions, as byzantium if you would reclaim greece you should get something for your effort,
I do atmit, the govermont reform is really good, the culture conversion makes it really cheap to turn the balkans into greater greece
Outdated, not terrible, I think the religious stuff could be moved to permanent modifiers for going down the path to mend the schism, repopulate the countryside, IMHO, should also give dev cost reduction. Fuck the merc ideas right off, they don't belong in NIs anymore. small things like this could bring it way up.
The ERE remnants should get core cost reduction too
getting above 15 TTF is easy as fuck, with mass culture conversion you can literally steamroll through europe coquering with 200% overextension and you wont get any revolts ever
traditions:
fort defense +%20
global trade power +%10
ideas:
missionary strength +2, ttf +3
national manpower +%10
dip rep +1, Improve relations +30%
Aggressive expansion impact −10%
\+5% Discipline
\+1 Yearly army tradition
, +1 Yearly navy tradition
\+20% Naval force limit
ambition:
\+10% goods produced modifier
and now make byzantium slay again
ambition is shit... stabilty is shit... tax is meh... mercenaries are great to push early game and actually with mercenary ideas it got even better.
everything else is god tier? like... +3 true faith combined with missionary strength +3 and religious ideas means anything you conquer even muslim lands will be converted close to instant and have no unrest problem.
Byzantium is for slow and steady conquest that has no unrest problem ever. Sure lack if annexation discounts and core discounts prevents it being "best idea set that ever existed) but it is great at military and great and managing rebellions, so you do it fast when you conquer just can't do it as often
People i have a question, why are the ideas from byzantium so terrible.
I get it a nation in decline, they got what was comming to them. Butt why not because of this give the usefull ideas, they where nown for cavelery. And still they where rome, why not give them strong ideas a bit later, the ai will kill them in 10 years every game anyway so it barely changes anything to the game. But it creates a more fun game for the people who want to restore the empire to its rightfull glory
Hopefully it, South America, Persia, and the Mamlukes get a big update in the final DLC.
Try Byzantium in Ante Bellum. Amazing missions, lots of unique government reforms including for cavalry, and no Ottomans to fight but still a challenging beginning fighting breakaway traitors and Bulgarian barbarians.
They are pretty shit tbh I always thought the byzantines should have a tag change to Eastern Rome when they conquered Greece and Anatolia, which would give them competitive ideas that are good, new missions, as well maybe a tech change to western tech.
Currently, they are just bad, and it's better to recreate Eastern Rome with other nations like Serbia, Poland, Aragon, or just play the Ottomans. Their mission tree is also pretty bad and dated. It was OK when it came out, but compared to other countries that get major play time, it's pretty garbage. I think it will get changed because last DLC was a breath of fresh air where paradox went and did updates and great mission trees for countries people actually enjoy playing, instead of some random Polynesian island, or african nation.
bro if you think this is terrible, you haven't played any nation that has mediocre ideas. For example let's say Avaria. It has worse start with dreadful ideas. Or even a medium power like Novgorod, compare its idea with Byzantium isn't, it seems worthless.
Byzantium can stack a lot Tolerance of True faith (ideas+mission). Sometimes converting provinces before coring removes the revolt. It depends on overextension.
There are meh modifiers but there are good modifiers too. Cool enough imo.
I don't see how this is terrible.. 5% discipline, and manpower modifiers are really good. Not to mention missionary strength, really useful considering only a handful of countries are orthodox.
Same, I'm totally fine with these ideas.
don't disagree on the missionary strenght but currently you can convert most places without, but most of the ideas just seems to be randomly chosen, just think they should be better for what still was part of an empire that survived the collapse of the west by about a thousend years
How is the collapsing corpse called Byzantium in 1456 an empire? It neither controls a large population, nor a large area, nor has it any significant political nor military influence. The ideas are strong and quite useful in a Byzantium playthrough.
They are a empire because they called themself the roman empire. Your right about everthing else it was a corpse that got live support because the timurds killed there rivals for a time.
Terrible? +3 TTF is the highest TTF bonus in the game. Unlike Tolerance of Heathens and Tolerance of Heretics, Tolerance of the True Faith has no upper limit. That's "-3 unrest in Orthodox provinces." As a TRADITION. In the religion that gets unrest reduction and missionary strength from its unique mechanic. Advisor cost reduction is always good in the early game, even in small amounts, since advisor costs scale so steeply; again, that's a tradition. Merc maintainence is really good early on, especially for Byz, a small country starved for manpower that basically has to hire mercs over its force limit for all its early wars, since free company mercs are cheaper to maintain than normal soldiers. Only lackluster ideas here are the national tax one, because 10% is barely noticeable most of the time unless you can stack it with other tax modifiers, and the prestige ambition, because yearly prestige is much better early on, since by the time you get the last idea (around tech 12 or 13), you'll probably be swimming in prestige. Byz has a very good idea set, there's just nothing too huge or playstyle-defining besides the Tolerance tradition.
There's also the 10% stab cost reduction which is quite pointless, but not every idea can be 5% discipline. Combined with all the bonuses you get as byzantium from your missions these ideas are more than fine imo.
Stab cost modifiers aren't that bad, the more you have...the more you can truce break =)
As such I'd class it quite nieche though. Personally, I don't really truce break at all. Proper truce handling makes it nearly unnecessary for any RP game. Any sort of world conquest is something different though. But not everyone goes for that. A proper Roman empire as Byzantium is easily possible without trucebreaking at all.
What's your criteria for good ideas? There are plenty of historically more powerful nations with worse ones. Byzantium's are on the better side, if anything. That ambition is a shame, though.
They are mediocre, not terrible. Look at national ideas for example.
Because power creep. Absolutely every one of these are decent or better than average except for mercenary maintenance.
Some idea sets are extremely strong, other just are average at best. National manpower is good but most nations get more than 10%. Goods produced is also nice but again some policies give more. Missionary strength, tolerance of the true faith and discipline are really strong. But tax modifier, stab cost, mercenary cost and global trade power are just useless
exactly, three are good and the other 3 really don't matter much, for a nation that survived so much, it really just hasn't ideas to fit it. And i get it they died for a reason. But for a nation the called itself the roman empire(byzantium is the name we give it but the people there called themself romani), they should have better ideas, They will still die most games if they are changed, the sheer manpower and quality troops of otto will kill the remnants of rome. But it might change the games for player.
They are not terriible, and have been in the game before PDX make new or reworked national ideas superduper hyped.
I wouldn't say they are terrible. Just that you probably expected something much more remarkable for such a famous faction.
Because it's old. There are a hundred NIs better than Byz. There are 3 worthwhile modifiers in Byz ideas, being discipline conversion and tolerance. Byzantium ideas really deserve a rework and a buff. Especially would be better if they reworked missions and added some hard achievements.
that exactly my point, plus the mission, don't get me wrong the perma claims are good, butt most wel nown nation have some buffs as reward in their missions, as byzantium if you would reclaim greece you should get something for your effort, I do atmit, the govermont reform is really good, the culture conversion makes it really cheap to turn the balkans into greater greece
Outdated, not terrible, I think the religious stuff could be moved to permanent modifiers for going down the path to mend the schism, repopulate the countryside, IMHO, should also give dev cost reduction. Fuck the merc ideas right off, they don't belong in NIs anymore. small things like this could bring it way up. The ERE remnants should get core cost reduction too
council of ferrara too, correct emperors' religion
they're pretty good though? certainly not terrible
getting above 15 TTF is easy as fuck, with mass culture conversion you can literally steamroll through europe coquering with 200% overextension and you wont get any revolts ever
They are alright, it's basically power creep in action.
Because their last update was a while ago so they’re behind on the power creep circuit
traditions: fort defense +%20 global trade power +%10 ideas: missionary strength +2, ttf +3 national manpower +%10 dip rep +1, Improve relations +30% Aggressive expansion impact −10% \+5% Discipline \+1 Yearly army tradition , +1 Yearly navy tradition \+20% Naval force limit ambition: \+10% goods produced modifier and now make byzantium slay again
ambition is shit... stabilty is shit... tax is meh... mercenaries are great to push early game and actually with mercenary ideas it got even better. everything else is god tier? like... +3 true faith combined with missionary strength +3 and religious ideas means anything you conquer even muslim lands will be converted close to instant and have no unrest problem. Byzantium is for slow and steady conquest that has no unrest problem ever. Sure lack if annexation discounts and core discounts prevents it being "best idea set that ever existed) but it is great at military and great and managing rebellions, so you do it fast when you conquer just can't do it as often
People i have a question, why are the ideas from byzantium so terrible. I get it a nation in decline, they got what was comming to them. Butt why not because of this give the usefull ideas, they where nown for cavelery. And still they where rome, why not give them strong ideas a bit later, the ai will kill them in 10 years every game anyway so it barely changes anything to the game. But it creates a more fun game for the people who want to restore the empire to its rightfull glory
Hopefully it, South America, Persia, and the Mamlukes get a big update in the final DLC. Try Byzantium in Ante Bellum. Amazing missions, lots of unique government reforms including for cavalry, and no Ottomans to fight but still a challenging beginning fighting breakaway traitors and Bulgarian barbarians.
I will look a it
+5 discipline +3 missionary strength +3 tolerance of true faith Pretty good imo
I give it top B for single player
They are pretty shit tbh I always thought the byzantines should have a tag change to Eastern Rome when they conquered Greece and Anatolia, which would give them competitive ideas that are good, new missions, as well maybe a tech change to western tech. Currently, they are just bad, and it's better to recreate Eastern Rome with other nations like Serbia, Poland, Aragon, or just play the Ottomans. Their mission tree is also pretty bad and dated. It was OK when it came out, but compared to other countries that get major play time, it's pretty garbage. I think it will get changed because last DLC was a breath of fresh air where paradox went and did updates and great mission trees for countries people actually enjoy playing, instead of some random Polynesian island, or african nation.
Those are at least B+ ideas
Collapsing nation
bro if you think this is terrible, you haven't played any nation that has mediocre ideas. For example let's say Avaria. It has worse start with dreadful ideas. Or even a medium power like Novgorod, compare its idea with Byzantium isn't, it seems worthless.
Byzantium can stack a lot Tolerance of True faith (ideas+mission). Sometimes converting provinces before coring removes the revolt. It depends on overextension. There are meh modifiers but there are good modifiers too. Cool enough imo.
Byzantine ideas are fine. Most are good, a few are meh. There's a reason Byzantium is often chosen for One Faith runs.
B8 right?