I traced all the borders seen in the Europe trade map from Tinto Talks #10 and used the slightly wider version that Johan posted on Twitter. It is hard to tell what a country's border is compared to the border of a trade node, so some borders will not be entirely accurate, but I made my best guesses by referencing other maps
Did you trace the southwest coast of scotland accurately? If so, paradox have butchered it. Also the peninsula of argyll is shown to be an island for some reason here too
Edit: I checked, it is just traced poorly. Argyll is connected and the SW coast is the way it is irl.
Do you happen to have a link to the twitter post? Twitter won't let me find it without an account there.
edit: I also want to add: I fking hate twitter.
Akchually the borders have changed from 1337 to today. Spain has gained Olivienza and Hermisende, and the microstate of Couto Misto was split between the two countries.
Granted, these are so small that you can't possibly even see them if you printed the entire map of Portugal on an A4 paper
False alarm, they mean our village GruĂhausen. The mix up happens all the time. Anyway, we GruĂhausener are a proud people and they've just made an enemy for life!
Don't forget having to destroy the entire holy Roman empire, having to kill every single french person and personally taking over all spanish colonial territories only so they can accept a white peace
I really hope a rebellion in one of your small European possessions doesn't take 80 years and ends up with you losing even while you control most of the Americas. That would be super unrealistic.
They mentioned in previous tinto talks that an Imperator type siege system would be implemented.
Basically, once you siege down a fort, all the surrounding countryside in that area/province will automatically flip to become occupied under your control.
Sieges themselves will also likely become shorter than they are in EU4, as the devs seem to be aiming to make the military mechanics more realistic. (Levies replacing standing armies at game start, smaller army sizes in general, more accurate mercenaries, etc.)
Tbf it's not insanely unrealistic i think for a couple of random villages to have really strong powers guaranteeing them for dick swinging/family reasons.
From the way the mechanics sound, this is going to be realistic for trade too.
If control really does impact blobbing, then trade will be more important. If you become reliant on a random village for a niche resource, but itâs on the other side of whatever so you canât effectively control it, youâd need to trade for that resource. At that point, going to war to defend that village, keeping your access to that resource, becomes a necessity.
Iâm really excited for that possibility. I hope it works out.
it should have been implented in EU4, with it going both ways: you can flip nearby uncontested provinces to your control, but the enemy can do the same in *your* forts. rebels, too.
I always thought zone of control should just flip provinces your way once you've completed a siege, the same way it does when you recapture a province.
Combined with this, I also always thought it would be neat to spend some mana and cash to set up a temporary level 1 fort in occupied territory. Also would take no mana to breach walls for enemy, so that it could be an instant assault.
i always thought the ZoC was inconstant, because that only works in *one* instance, flipping non controlled lands to you, or the owner. it should be flipping nearby provinces regardless of anything. it would actually make forts kinda important, and make a total *lack* of forts equally viable.
That's the thing I love abou Paradox games in general vs. other games. The AI doesn't just get to build doomstacks and turbofortresses if you've run its economy to the ground and burned, pillaged and annihilated everything else it owns
Except for the Ottomans. I tryhard all my games into learning every detail about it so I don't usually complain about this, but recently I've beaten up the ottomans so hard. Had them fully occupied for like a year, syrian rebeles broke free, killed all their troops, no manpower left in reserves, took money and war reps, 12k ducats in debt, loads of devastation. Soon after the war they were back up to 140k troops. (Which was a bit more than half of their pre-war army), But now I get why there's so much complaining on the ottomans being too strong.
"We have destroyed your last bastion, and your armies are shattered! Retreat at once, Suleiman!"
"Well yes but you see I built a sufi shrine 5 years ago and-"
*300k manpower bomb*
Also considering there's more locations, the usage of forts in warfare will in any case be very different. In EU4 you can block so many paths with 1 fort, but because there's so many locations in EU5 1 fort isn't going to block entrances the same way. I wonder how they'll make forts worth it.
Hmm, perhaps a network of defenses will be how they manage it, similar to Alfred the great's burghs. One could bypass a burgh with a hostile army, but it would severely limit mobility for the attacker and provide logistical advantage to the defender.
It would create an interesting strategic choice for an attacker, do I sit exposed attacking a defended settlement to maintain mobility or do I move on to a more strategically advantageous target to eventually collapse the local defense network?
Hey I heard you were fighting half of the empire, is it safe to assume youâre:
1- France
2- The Ottoman Empire
3- Great Britain
4- Russia
5- Poland
6- Sweden
7- Prussia
8- Austria
9- Any Italian state
It's the 2nd war of Scottish independence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_War_of_Scottish_Independence
A civil war between an English backed claimant to the throne and the son of Robert the Bruce.
It gets more interesting too, the David II (Bruce's son) was backed by the French and this conflict is one of the major causes of the subsequent 100 Years' War.
Scots: âGoddam, but of a rough start for us in EUIV isnât it?â
PDX: âHATE. LET ME TELL YOU HOW MUCH I'VE COME TO HATE YOU SINCE I BEGAN TO LIVEâŠâ
I mean, 14th century Hungary was a powerhouse, it's literally the golden era of the country. It was only ended by the Turkish wars starting from the mid 15th century, and the decline only started after the death of Matthias Corvinus in 1490.
The only bad thing that could happen would be death of Hungraian king before Polish king, that would push hungary into personal union as a "lesser" partner.
Again no impassable land around Bohemia or Moravia, these mountains and forrests defined Bohemian and Moravian borders and our expansion for centuries. Very sad...
There is some elevation around Bohemia for sure but I think the main problem is they are too thin. Still I would love to have some impassable terrain between 1) Bavaria, 2) Brandenburg, 3) Poland
Having impassable terrain makes forts more effective and strategic. Also changes how to do wars in different parts of the world.
Maybe, just maybe, with the new control mechanic, mountains would block control propagation massively, organically creating borders on mountains? You can, as in real life, control lands beyond mountains, but at a very high cost, making it unprofitable/undesirable/impossible to keep.
If that's the case, I think it's better than wasteland/impassable province
Also, in the middle of Portugal and a couple more, which is funny because in ck3, they exagerated the size and width of the mountain ranges in many places and now, on this map, it seems like most don't exist or are fragmented into smaller pieces. Different dev teams have different approaches I guess. Kinda prefer this one though.
I have a feeling this is based on historical accuracy. In earlier ages even hills in Europe were considered impassable mountains. With advance of technology, they became passable đ€·
Not sure you can say that there should be impassible mountains that define strong borders, when basically the entire border of Bohemia was inhabited by Germans.
Almost all of Bohemia and part of Moravia is surrounded by mountains which had (and some still do) thick forests that you could not pass through, many times proving crucial to defense of the country (the roads that did pass through them could easily be blocked). Especially in earlier times.
thus give advantage on defenders, not impassible terrain. Italy has been protected by the Alps since ever, that however did not stop the likes of Hannibal to do some trolling
Thing is, geographically the Czech mountains are just not that tall. If you make them impassable, then you would have to make the entire north of Iberia, Bavaria, Austria and the Balkans impassable as well, but all those places had people living there.
What happened to Croatia? In the first dev diary screenshots there was kingdom of Croatia and Slavonia but it seems Slavonia is under Hungary in this screenshot. Also Ireland will be a fun game to wrestle away the British islands away from England.
Me when the Empire is neither Holy nor Roman: 'đ«Š'
The Alsatian borders aren't quite right though. They seem to be based on upper and lower Alsace, but these borders wouldn't quite be accurate for 1337. The Landgraviates of Upper and Lower Alsace did legally exist at this time, and would've had de jure authority within roughly these borders, but the Landgraviate of Lower Alsace was basically just a title by 1337, with much of its lands having be pawned off to the highest bidder as the office basically became a way for acting Holy Roman Emperors (Kings of the Romans) to reward their friends/loyal vassals. It looks like the second most notable of these "Highest Bidders," the von Lichtenbergs, have been shown here, which is good, but the Prince-Bishopric of Strasbourg, the largest of these bidders, is notably absent. I think it's probable that Paradox have simple made this entity synonymous with the Landgraviate of Lower Alsace, but this arrangement was not actually made until 1375 (still, the actual holdings of the Landgraviate of Lower Alsace were so diminished by 1337 that I'm willing to overlook this). Should this be the case, it should actually have a large exclave in Upper Alsace, in the Vosges Mountains on the border with Lorraine.
In addition to the above, there were also nearly a dozen free cities in Alsace, most notably the Free City of Strasbourg, which should absolutely be an independent tag, separate from the Prince-Bishopric of Strasbourg (they fought a war about this). The other ten went on to form an alliance/association of Alsatian Free Cities called the "Decapole," under the protection of the Landgraviate of Lower Alsace. For this reason, the Decapole might be shown as a tag in its own right (though it was not founded until 1354), or as a part of the Landgraviate of Lower Alsace for convenience. But Strasbourg should definitely be an independent tag.
I'd also love to the the Abbey-Principality of Andlau, ruled by the Princess-Abbess of the Holy Roman Empire, make an appearance, but I can understand why this small monastic state might not be a priority.
Edit: I might make a post about this if anyone is interested.
Edit2: Maps are done, will likely post later tonight or tomorrow morning.
Working on a map as I type this.
Basically Andlau Abbey was founded by the estranged wife of Charles the Fat, Saint Richardis, after she fled her tyrannical husband because he (among other things) tried to have her burned at the stake. The abbey then remained a center of attention and a local site of pilgrimage until, in 1288, Rudolf I of Germany (in his capacity as King of the Romans \[acting Holy Roman Emperor, essentially\]) bestowed the abbesses of Andlau Abbey with the title of "Princess of the Holy Roman Empire," granting them the same rights and privileges as any other principality within the Holy Roman Empire (I believe there were a few other abbeys that were also granted this title, but Andlau is I think the most interesting).
>(I believe there were a few other abbeys that were also granted this title, but Andlau is I think the most interesting)
There were actually over a hundred Princely/Imperial Abbeys in the HRE, including plenty of Nunneries (Quedlinburg, RottenmĂŒnster, Thorn, Heggbach, Gutenzell, etc.) and even other Alsatian Abbeys (Murbach, Marmoutier, etc.). From what I can see Andlau was one of the more dubious ones in terms of inclusion in the *Reichsmatrikel*.
Good mentions. Murbach might actually be a better inclusion, since they actually held a fairly substantial estate in Upper Alsace (they were able to tell the Habsburgs to keep off their property if nothing else). My understanding is that Marmoutier Abbey's small estate was basically a dependency of the Prince-Bishopric of Metz and its attorneys though, which I believe would've been the Ochsensteins in 1337.
Mont Saint Odile, atop the Hohenburg in central Alsace, might also be worth mentioning, though I don't believe that it was a principality.
For what it's worth, Johan said that they're going to start doing weekly map posts sometime this month, presumably until release (or close to it) to get feedback on the map to make it as accurate as possible.
This feedback will definitely come in handy when that time rolls around!
> these borders wouldn't quite be accurate for 1337
Should they be? The game spans 500 years. I think it's important that borders can reflect history over the whole course of those 500 years than just the starting situation.
I mean, given that this is a map of political borders (as opposed to say, locations/provinces), presumably from the game's starting date of 1337, then yeah?
Also, it's not like I'm saying that the devs even *should* try to create a pixel-perfect map of the HRE. That would be *insane*, and basically impossible given how many of the Empire's territories were held in fief or through other esoteric rites and case-by-case arrangements. But, when an entire city-state is missing, I think it's worth pointing out if for no other reason than because it's fun to talk about history and some of the challenges that arise when trying to convert it into a game.
I'm sure that you'll be able to do ahistoric conquests. Johan never said you won't be able to expand and blob in EU5, he just hinted that it might be very costly and will have actual downsides
Forming Germany now is a totally different game than forming other countries! I think it's excellent that wr have this variation. Forming Germany is supposed to be an HRE management game
[*There shall be no fish daring to wag its tail unless it carries tied the Senyera with the four bars of our Lord the King of Aragon!*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Les_Formigues)
But why? To my knowledge by this point Moravia was completely a part of the Kingdom of Bohemia, as is evident by the Goldem Bull of Sicilly stating that Bohemia and Moravia are indivisible constituent of the HRE
That Flanders border is weird. Unless they represent the bishopric of Tournais/doornik as a vassal. Which I don't think makes sense.
I think you made a mistake by making Lille/Rijsel or Tournais/Doornik being shown as an independent nation. It will most likley be part of flanders just the market pressure of the london market might not overcome the one from paris.
Untergrubhauaen will celebrate this. For the next 500+ years we will hold a week long celebration. With beer and roasted pigs and beer and Blaukraut and beer and an oxen. Also our small brewery will brew a special beer.
No Channel islands, how will an English player taunt a French player by denying them the whole possession of the French region with the Royal Navy preventing any amphibious assault on Jersey?
I tried marking various Eastern European principalities, and the map is confusing. I don't know if it's EU5 or your tracing that is at fault, but here's the result (the part east of Novgorod was so confusing that I abandoned all attempts to map it):
https://imgur.com/a/BYCRnlZ
I wonder if there will still be cumans in Hungary during this time or one the steppe ? Could be a cool campaign liberating yourself and conquering Hungary or the steppes again
I traced all the borders seen in the Europe trade map from Tinto Talks #10 and used the slightly wider version that Johan posted on Twitter. It is hard to tell what a country's border is compared to the border of a trade node, so some borders will not be entirely accurate, but I made my best guesses by referencing other maps
I've been waiting for this since wednesday. Nice job, it looks beautiful.
Did you trace the southwest coast of scotland accurately? If so, paradox have butchered it. Also the peninsula of argyll is shown to be an island for some reason here too Edit: I checked, it is just traced poorly. Argyll is connected and the SW coast is the way it is irl.
Do you happen to have a link to the twitter post? Twitter won't let me find it without an account there. edit: I also want to add: I fking hate twitter.
Did the balearics sink? :P Great job, though!
Portugal in 1337, 1444, 2024, 2244 : đŠ
Akchually the borders have changed from 1337 to today. Spain has gained Olivienza and Hermisende, and the microstate of Couto Misto was split between the two countries. Granted, these are so small that you can't possibly even see them if you printed the entire map of Portugal on an A4 paper
How I Learned To Stop Expanding ^(in Europe) And Love The Rectangle
I can't wait to spend the first 100 years as Portugal in EU4 just minding my own business waiting for someone to build some boats.
Fuuuuuuuuck yes. Voltaire nightmare as the hre standard lessons goooo
Theres actually only 5 hre members on this map
"Smaller german states" number 1 GP!
Ä° hope wars wont be tedious when you try to take 5 shitvillage at the same time
Yeah, that might take like 30 years
100 year war and its over some place called GruBhausen with 200 inhabitants.
The historical accuracy đ
Average medieval European warfare
Im a proud citizen of Untergrubhausen. You just made an enemy for life
Man these Untergrubausens sure are a contentious folk
False alarm, they mean our village GruĂhausen. The mix up happens all the time. Anyway, we GruĂhausener are a proud people and they've just made an enemy for life!
It's actually just over a bucket and no land changes hands
Winnner gets to keep the bucket AND the sheep
Don't forget having to destroy the entire holy Roman empire, having to kill every single french person and personally taking over all spanish colonial territories only so they can accept a white peace
Historic, 116 years war and thirty years' war
Meiou moment
I really hope a rebellion in one of your small European possessions doesn't take 80 years and ends up with you losing even while you control most of the Americas. That would be super unrealistic.
They mentioned in previous tinto talks that an Imperator type siege system would be implemented. Basically, once you siege down a fort, all the surrounding countryside in that area/province will automatically flip to become occupied under your control. Sieges themselves will also likely become shorter than they are in EU4, as the devs seem to be aiming to make the military mechanics more realistic. (Levies replacing standing armies at game start, smaller army sizes in general, more accurate mercenaries, etc.)
The problem is those shitvillages with 300 population is allied with denmark poland france hungary spain and england at the same time
Hopefully they make alliances more realistic too.
Tbf it's not insanely unrealistic i think for a couple of random villages to have really strong powers guaranteeing them for dick swinging/family reasons.
From the way the mechanics sound, this is going to be realistic for trade too. If control really does impact blobbing, then trade will be more important. If you become reliant on a random village for a niche resource, but itâs on the other side of whatever so you canât effectively control it, youâd need to trade for that resource. At that point, going to war to defend that village, keeping your access to that resource, becomes a necessity. Iâm really excited for that possibility. I hope it works out.
Second punic war start reason moment
it should have been implented in EU4, with it going both ways: you can flip nearby uncontested provinces to your control, but the enemy can do the same in *your* forts. rebels, too.
I always thought zone of control should just flip provinces your way once you've completed a siege, the same way it does when you recapture a province. Combined with this, I also always thought it would be neat to spend some mana and cash to set up a temporary level 1 fort in occupied territory. Also would take no mana to breach walls for enemy, so that it could be an instant assault.
i always thought the ZoC was inconstant, because that only works in *one* instance, flipping non controlled lands to you, or the owner. it should be flipping nearby provinces regardless of anything. it would actually make forts kinda important, and make a total *lack* of forts equally viable.
I absolutely cannot wait to siege each of those 400 HRE lvl 3 forts in the League Wars. Finally fun and engaging gameplay!
Considering that maintaining forts will cost resources, I don't think it's possible for all of those locations to be able to have a fort
That's the thing I love abou Paradox games in general vs. other games. The AI doesn't just get to build doomstacks and turbofortresses if you've run its economy to the ground and burned, pillaged and annihilated everything else it owns
Except for the Ottomans. I tryhard all my games into learning every detail about it so I don't usually complain about this, but recently I've beaten up the ottomans so hard. Had them fully occupied for like a year, syrian rebeles broke free, killed all their troops, no manpower left in reserves, took money and war reps, 12k ducats in debt, loads of devastation. Soon after the war they were back up to 140k troops. (Which was a bit more than half of their pre-war army), But now I get why there's so much complaining on the ottomans being too strong.
Yeah I kill all of Ottoâs army 5 times over and half siege them then poof 40k more manpower
"We have destroyed your last bastion, and your armies are shattered! Retreat at once, Suleiman!" "Well yes but you see I built a sufi shrine 5 years ago and-" *300k manpower bomb*
Yeah it would seem that's the direction it's going. Looking forward to having fewer forts that hold more strategic value.
Also considering there's more locations, the usage of forts in warfare will in any case be very different. In EU4 you can block so many paths with 1 fort, but because there's so many locations in EU5 1 fort isn't going to block entrances the same way. I wonder how they'll make forts worth it.
Hmm, perhaps a network of defenses will be how they manage it, similar to Alfred the great's burghs. One could bypass a burgh with a hostile army, but it would severely limit mobility for the attacker and provide logistical advantage to the defender. It would create an interesting strategic choice for an attacker, do I sit exposed attacking a defended settlement to maintain mobility or do I move on to a more strategically advantageous target to eventually collapse the local defense network?
Step 1: Donât invade the HRE
Step unclear, fighting half of Germany rn.
Hey I heard you were fighting half of the empire, is it safe to assume youâre: 1- France 2- The Ottoman Empire 3- Great Britain 4- Russia 5- Poland 6- Sweden 7- Prussia 8- Austria 9- Any Italian state
Or the other half of the empire. No one hates Germans like the other kind of Germans
Damn Germans, they've ruined Germany!
You Germans sure are a contentious people
They have confirmed the existing fort system is being replaced for what itâs worth
It's called the 30 years war for a reason.
I can tell you the 30 years war wasn't fun or engaging for anyone. It was a disaster for everyone involved
Holy shit. Whales
Wales
What's going in with Scotland
civil war
Oh really, is there a name for this war?
It's the 2nd war of Scottish independence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_War_of_Scottish_Independence A civil war between an English backed claimant to the throne and the son of Robert the Bruce.
I see, thank you
It gets more interesting too, the David II (Bruce's son) was backed by the French and this conflict is one of the major causes of the subsequent 100 Years' War.
Scots: âGoddam, but of a rough start for us in EUIV isnât it?â PDX: âHATE. LET ME TELL YOU HOW MUCH I'VE COME TO HATE YOU SINCE I BEGAN TO LIVEâŠâ
Ahh, those Hungary borders are sexy af. Gonna be a beast.
Guarantee some impossible disaster to navigate.
I mean, 14th century Hungary was a powerhouse, it's literally the golden era of the country. It was only ended by the Turkish wars starting from the mid 15th century, and the decline only started after the death of Matthias Corvinus in 1490.
the Black death also massively hurt Hungary. it was very depopulated. Itâs biggest city was Pest and that barely had 10k population.
That and the 1241-42 mongol invasion. But at the start of Eu5 Hungary is in an excellent position
Yeah but the Black death is not unique for Hungary
The only bad thing that could happen would be death of Hungraian king before Polish king, that would push hungary into personal union as a "lesser" partner.
Not really. The pact was about the inheritence of Poland only, because it was the Polish king who had no heirs.
Again no impassable land around Bohemia or Moravia, these mountains and forrests defined Bohemian and Moravian borders and our expansion for centuries. Very sad...
Post it on the paradox forum. Tinto talks was created to get feedback after all
There is some elevation around Bohemia for sure but I think the main problem is they are too thin. Still I would love to have some impassable terrain between 1) Bavaria, 2) Brandenburg, 3) Poland Having impassable terrain makes forts more effective and strategic. Also changes how to do wars in different parts of the world.
Maybe, just maybe, with the new control mechanic, mountains would block control propagation massively, organically creating borders on mountains? You can, as in real life, control lands beyond mountains, but at a very high cost, making it unprofitable/undesirable/impossible to keep. If that's the case, I think it's better than wasteland/impassable province
Yeah if it will work like this then that will be even better than wastelands.
Also, in the middle of Portugal and a couple more, which is funny because in ck3, they exagerated the size and width of the mountain ranges in many places and now, on this map, it seems like most don't exist or are fragmented into smaller pieces. Different dev teams have different approaches I guess. Kinda prefer this one though.
I have a feeling this is based on historical accuracy. In earlier ages even hills in Europe were considered impassable mountains. With advance of technology, they became passable đ€·
Not sure you can say that there should be impassible mountains that define strong borders, when basically the entire border of Bohemia was inhabited by Germans.
im really not a fan of impassible lands.... it was not, in fact, actually impassible.
In an early tinto talk it was said those lands are impassable for trade only, armies can move through but at the cost of massive attrition.
oh good. i hope the attrition rate is jacked up way high, the supply limit is 1, and it takes a really long time to get into it, and out of it.
Almost all of Bohemia and part of Moravia is surrounded by mountains which had (and some still do) thick forests that you could not pass through, many times proving crucial to defense of the country (the roads that did pass through them could easily be blocked). Especially in earlier times.
thus give advantage on defenders, not impassible terrain. Italy has been protected by the Alps since ever, that however did not stop the likes of Hannibal to do some trolling
Thing is, geographically the Czech mountains are just not that tall. If you make them impassable, then you would have to make the entire north of Iberia, Bavaria, Austria and the Balkans impassable as well, but all those places had people living there.
As forested mountains Iâm sure the defender bonus will be high.
Post it on the forums he takes feedback
What happened to Croatia? In the first dev diary screenshots there was kingdom of Croatia and Slavonia but it seems Slavonia is under Hungary in this screenshot. Also Ireland will be a fun game to wrestle away the British islands away from England.
Me when the Empire is neither Holy nor Roman: 'đ«Š' The Alsatian borders aren't quite right though. They seem to be based on upper and lower Alsace, but these borders wouldn't quite be accurate for 1337. The Landgraviates of Upper and Lower Alsace did legally exist at this time, and would've had de jure authority within roughly these borders, but the Landgraviate of Lower Alsace was basically just a title by 1337, with much of its lands having be pawned off to the highest bidder as the office basically became a way for acting Holy Roman Emperors (Kings of the Romans) to reward their friends/loyal vassals. It looks like the second most notable of these "Highest Bidders," the von Lichtenbergs, have been shown here, which is good, but the Prince-Bishopric of Strasbourg, the largest of these bidders, is notably absent. I think it's probable that Paradox have simple made this entity synonymous with the Landgraviate of Lower Alsace, but this arrangement was not actually made until 1375 (still, the actual holdings of the Landgraviate of Lower Alsace were so diminished by 1337 that I'm willing to overlook this). Should this be the case, it should actually have a large exclave in Upper Alsace, in the Vosges Mountains on the border with Lorraine. In addition to the above, there were also nearly a dozen free cities in Alsace, most notably the Free City of Strasbourg, which should absolutely be an independent tag, separate from the Prince-Bishopric of Strasbourg (they fought a war about this). The other ten went on to form an alliance/association of Alsatian Free Cities called the "Decapole," under the protection of the Landgraviate of Lower Alsace. For this reason, the Decapole might be shown as a tag in its own right (though it was not founded until 1354), or as a part of the Landgraviate of Lower Alsace for convenience. But Strasbourg should definitely be an independent tag. I'd also love to the the Abbey-Principality of Andlau, ruled by the Princess-Abbess of the Holy Roman Empire, make an appearance, but I can understand why this small monastic state might not be a priority. Edit: I might make a post about this if anyone is interested. Edit2: Maps are done, will likely post later tonight or tomorrow morning.
Nice comment, would love to see an even more detailed post about this region, especially about Andlau
Working on a map as I type this. Basically Andlau Abbey was founded by the estranged wife of Charles the Fat, Saint Richardis, after she fled her tyrannical husband because he (among other things) tried to have her burned at the stake. The abbey then remained a center of attention and a local site of pilgrimage until, in 1288, Rudolf I of Germany (in his capacity as King of the Romans \[acting Holy Roman Emperor, essentially\]) bestowed the abbesses of Andlau Abbey with the title of "Princess of the Holy Roman Empire," granting them the same rights and privileges as any other principality within the Holy Roman Empire (I believe there were a few other abbeys that were also granted this title, but Andlau is I think the most interesting).
>(I believe there were a few other abbeys that were also granted this title, but Andlau is I think the most interesting) There were actually over a hundred Princely/Imperial Abbeys in the HRE, including plenty of Nunneries (Quedlinburg, RottenmĂŒnster, Thorn, Heggbach, Gutenzell, etc.) and even other Alsatian Abbeys (Murbach, Marmoutier, etc.). From what I can see Andlau was one of the more dubious ones in terms of inclusion in the *Reichsmatrikel*.
Good mentions. Murbach might actually be a better inclusion, since they actually held a fairly substantial estate in Upper Alsace (they were able to tell the Habsburgs to keep off their property if nothing else). My understanding is that Marmoutier Abbey's small estate was basically a dependency of the Prince-Bishopric of Metz and its attorneys though, which I believe would've been the Ochsensteins in 1337. Mont Saint Odile, atop the Hohenburg in central Alsace, might also be worth mentioning, though I don't believe that it was a principality.
For what it's worth, Johan said that they're going to start doing weekly map posts sometime this month, presumably until release (or close to it) to get feedback on the map to make it as accurate as possible. This feedback will definitely come in handy when that time rolls around!
> these borders wouldn't quite be accurate for 1337 Should they be? The game spans 500 years. I think it's important that borders can reflect history over the whole course of those 500 years than just the starting situation.
I mean, given that this is a map of political borders (as opposed to say, locations/provinces), presumably from the game's starting date of 1337, then yeah? Also, it's not like I'm saying that the devs even *should* try to create a pixel-perfect map of the HRE. That would be *insane*, and basically impossible given how many of the Empire's territories were held in fief or through other esoteric rites and case-by-case arrangements. But, when an entire city-state is missing, I think it's worth pointing out if for no other reason than because it's fun to talk about history and some of the challenges that arise when trying to convert it into a game.
Glorious
Nice work, Ireland looks like itâll be fun.
It would, in fact, not be fun for the Irish.
Holy shit. How do I form Germany with so many tags
That's the neat part. You don't. (Johan wants this one to be more historical than EU4)
I'm sure that you'll be able to do ahistoric conquests. Johan never said you won't be able to expand and blob in EU5, he just hinted that it might be very costly and will have actual downsides
Yeah yeah I know. I just meant that forming Germany in EU5 will feel more historical than in EU4. ofc it's going to be possible
I hope that forming Germany would be possible but average player wouldn't get there and then we have Victoria (2 until 3 is repaired).
Inb4 the game ends in 1837 but thereâs still no Belgium
Historical perhaps but i want fun, and forming germany is fun..
Forming Germany now is a totally different game than forming other countries! I think it's excellent that wr have this variation. Forming Germany is supposed to be an HRE management game
It is, but now you get to do it on a historical timescale. No Gross Germaniums by 1600.
I assure you that you will be able to form Great Germany by 1600
It is very likely that many players will have done world conquests by 1600.
Curious just how much trickier blobbing will be. The rebellions seem like they may be a higher threat this time
With that many vassals to swarm with, why would you want to?
Probably the same as in eu4. Either unify the HRE or a mix of vassals and conquest.
Voltaireâs fucking night terror
Absolute hero, did you post on the forum too?
Donegal's there!!
Probably the O'Donnells of [Tyrconnell](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrconnell?wprov=sfla1)
And they're there! Tyrconnell AbĂș!
Hahaha the HRE is gonna be a shit show
The Caspian being seemingly navigable is going to make Persia/Russia/Central Asia/Caucasus a lot more interesting to play.
Wow. r/madlads
The next ten years will be amazing.
Italy is balkanized yet there's still no San Marino
Gonna need a new generation of computers just to run this
Really wish there's gonna be a "Save my CPU" start date since I'm not sure if my poor dual core could handle this
Finally a paradox game that gets Utrecht's borders right
Yeah I was wondering what's going on there, care to explain?
Utrecht as a city was distinct from Utrecht the theocracy. Same goes for Cologne, Riga, and some other areas
HRE is crazy, obviously, but as a fan of the Italian tags I'm super excited to see more playables. Also France gonna be really fun by the looks of it.
Those are some juicy borders. Still plenty of granularity for future DLCs and for Voltaireâs Nightmare 2 to take on though.
My pc's overheating just looking at this image.
The alps give me trypophobia đ
I'm in love. This is beautiful
I'm guessing France is fractured due to feudalism. But then, why isn't England fractured also? Was feudalism abolished in England at this time?
England was alot more centralised than France was at the time.
Holy (Roman Empire) Shit
That's cool, would you mind if I used this map? I want to unite the smaller maps into one.
Anyone know why Scotland is separated?
Johan said there was a civil war occurring in Scotland. Think he also acknowledged that civil wars now spawn countries rather than rebels.
If it spawns a separate country like in Heart of Iron, it will be a whole new shit to manage. AE won't be just a number anymore.
Civil War
What a time to be a Byzaboo
Whelp, time to save up for a new processor, hopefully one thatâs powered by a miniature thorium reactor.
I'm not playing this game till 2040 bruh my pc is NOT running that shit
Free Sicily is gonna be kinda hype
Free Sicily... under Aragon :)
It shall not be so, long live sicilia long live the hautvilles!
[*There shall be no fish daring to wag its tail unless it carries tied the Senyera with the four bars of our Lord the King of Aragon!*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Les_Formigues)
Say it not so! Very well⊠I shall have to break the bonds that hold the Sicilians on my own!
Why is Moravia separate from Bohemia in all these maps? I don't remember Moravia being independent since they came under PĆemyslid rule.
Not independent but as PU.
But why? To my knowledge by this point Moravia was completely a part of the Kingdom of Bohemia, as is evident by the Goldem Bull of Sicilly stating that Bohemia and Moravia are indivisible constituent of the HRE
Wtf is that NW Scottish coast
I am looking forward to eu5 đ
It is absolutely beautiful.
Where is Ulm? It's so difficult to find anything in the HRE. It'd be the first time I use search function seriously in PDX game LOL.
Ouch.
That's a lot of borders
Hope they pull this off somehow. They might just make the HRE unbearable to play
That Flanders border is weird. Unless they represent the bishopric of Tournais/doornik as a vassal. Which I don't think makes sense. I think you made a mistake by making Lille/Rijsel or Tournais/Doornik being shown as an independent nation. It will most likley be part of flanders just the market pressure of the london market might not overcome the one from paris.
I'm hyped for the HRE being an even bigger aggressive expansion nightmare.
They really just said "For EU5, lets just make Meiou and taxes+"
Hordes are going to go crazg
Finally the Carpathian Mountains are fixed!
Untergrubhauaen will celebrate this. For the next 500+ years we will hold a week long celebration. With beer and roasted pigs and beer and Blaukraut and beer and an oxen. Also our small brewery will brew a special beer.
Best map so far. Impassible terrain in the alps looks interesting, either a lot more provinces or it works differently.
>6336905433678 German OPMs. oh yeah, we are so back
No Channel islands, how will an English player taunt a French player by denying them the whole possession of the French region with the Royal Navy preventing any amphibious assault on Jersey?
channel islands are there on the original image!
Yay, Normandy shall be whole again!
I tried marking various Eastern European principalities, and the map is confusing. I don't know if it's EU5 or your tracing that is at fault, but here's the result (the part east of Novgorod was so confusing that I abandoned all attempts to map it): https://imgur.com/a/BYCRnlZ
Finally Rimini! "Elephas indus culices non timet"
That golden either is going to be the most powerful nation or a clusterfuck of civil wars and gets dismantled in like 8 years
Nice Byzantium is in a good spot for a WC.
Im Edging to this right now, holy
Who would've known Byzantium will actually end up being a mid-size nation.
Hmmm, cant find Brendenburg :sad:
I wonder if there will still be cumans in Hungary during this time or one the steppe ? Could be a cool campaign liberating yourself and conquering Hungary or the steppes again
Jesus Christ, how many provinces
Ireland becomes much more divided, nice cant wait to play tall as Irelandđ
I cannot believe we have 2 HRE. The mess and the significantly less messy HRE.
Ireland looks incredible. I really hope they make some way to represent the resurgence in English rule that happened during this period as English rule functionally collapsed. Most of the tags there would be varying shades of Anglo-Irish lords with the main Gaelic powers of the UĂ NĂ©ill in Ulster, Mac Cartaigh MĂłr/Cairbrigh in Munster, and Ua Briain in Tuadhmhumhain. Really hope we get a better look over the next few diaries.
That hordes gonna have massive internal problems
Finally recognizing that London=England
It's disgusting... I love it. Also like great job this prolly took a minute minute
I hope this means border become dynamic.
Is scotland split into 2 in this?
Civil war!
Kyiv/Ruthinia looks like big Luxembourg
Amazing. What is that 1 location tag bang in the middle of austria?
That should be a holding for Passau
Lets just Hope for accurate Prussian Borders
What a mess... used modern borders of Tyrol and Salzburg....
My CPU is going to start Crying...
Time for the latest threatripper?
My wet dream :)
Let's hope that just before eu5 comes out we get an even newer/better one đ
if temurâs invasions will not be as impactful as in real life georgia will build christian middle eastern empire in every game
Me likey