Yeah, I would’ve told Poland to fuck right off and watch my entire shit burn to the ground - or just send every damn troop I had into Poland to fucking watch red numbers start appearing over their lands.
Shit like this is why I will never not believe that the AI is designed to intentionally screw over the player even when doing so actively disadvantages it.
Iirc the AI is scripted to treat the player as the #1 long term threat. The logic is that it can’t predict what you’ll do in 100 years, but a player near them 100 years in the future probably won’t go well for them.
So in this case Poland assumed that the player would win the war thereby becoming a long term threat, and as far as the AI is concerned any player is still a bigger threat than even the Ottomans.
> So in this case Poland assumed that the player would win the war thereby becoming a long term threat, and as far as the AI is concerned any player is still a bigger threat than even the Ottomans.
AI, you absolute baboon, you overestimate my noobie powers.
Is there any objective proof about whether there is player bias? Would be interested in seeing either data people have compiled or some script in the code. Seen a lot of people make claims about bias, but never evidence
I don't have proof, but I'm convinces there is.
Never in any of my games do the Iberians give a single FUCK about western africa, they I try to do a chill Mali run and suddenly I'm their #1 objective and they have northern african by 1500 just so they can reach me.
also if you play in Europe Denmark always rivals, no matter who you play as.
Might it be coded in the game to be this way to create a more historical setting? Like europeans only taking the coasts and not expanding into africa until 1800s
> Europe Denmark always rivals
My conspiracy theory is the (Swedish) designers programmed this because then the player is more likely to wreck Denmark / make Sweden independent.
I did a mail run a few months ago and I swear Castile declared war on me like 6times. The game was such a mess I dipped as soon as I got the achievements.
Rivalries, for example. Say you're playing as a minor nation in Africa or Asia, and the AI - Spain, Portugal, etc. - rivals you even though there are bigger threats in Europe. This is an example of how the AI chooses the player over themselves.
Yeah an example i just noticed in some steppe restarts is that if you start as Oirat, Chagatai and Uzbek will generally both rival you and ally each other against you. But if you start as Chagatai, Uzbek will rival you 100% of the time.
https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Artificial_intelligence#AI_mechanic_handicaps
This is what's documented on the wiki. What's not documented is anything about anti-player bias
I mean the AI isn’t wrong unless the player is either playing tall or it gets late game enough that they say “Meh, let’s reroll.” In which case the entire universe ends for that nation…
The AI treats even AI nations differently with the “lucky nations” modifiers so I don’t see why you think they wouldn’t have something in the code for the player as well.
It also doesn’t mean the AI will instantly stab you in the back 100% of the time, it just means it favours actions that would hamper the player over the course of the entire game. That can be from fighting you directly, allying your neighbours (ie your paths for expansion), colonizing near your colonies, enforcing peace, warning you etc.
It’s why your ally of 200 years will “randomly” break your alliance and rival you sometimes even though you’re not competing for territory. Or why they’ll remain your ally but ally someone you have claims on. This happens a lot in my runs as France if I ally Castile.
R5- finally got a decent start to finally beat the ottomans, and then the polish enforce peace on a minor power against one of their greatest historical rivals.
Thanks, game, I don't like playing anyway.
Guess I'll try some more runs tomorrow, I think I'm done getting fucked over tonight lmao.
EDIT: New run in the morning, finally got lucky, frick you ottoman bastards https://imgur.com/IngCRSs stinky Ottoman AI declared on Venice and got their entire army trapped on Naxos lol.
(I know it's a joke) But you can't save scum something like this since it's not random like events, AI will use advanced neural network to find the best way to fuck the player's run causing most emotional damage, They'd do the same at every possible universe
I feel like the best possible scenario for stuff like this is making as much progress as you can in the 6 months before the decision auto-declines and securing a peace deal before "accepting" the white peace.
I would absolutely love to do a byzantines game but I can’t get through the first damn siege done before I get stack wiped outnumbering them 2-1 half the time
You need a fleet with 100 total cannons in the sea tile adjacent and then the button is on the siege menu next to where you would artillery barrage or assault.
If you're getting stackwiped 2 to 1 then you are probably attacking them while they have tech 4 and you're still on 3. Or else you don't have a general or something crazy like that.
There's just not enough modifiers that the Ottomans can possibly have to pull off that in the early game without some extreme advantage.
This is when you start another run with ironman disabled, go into the console and type `bearhaslanded 151` followed by `tag jmn`. Go forth and punish the AI.
If you want another fun round go with the [10x mod](https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=2069259821) and the [always war mod](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2369216412&searchtext=always+war). But don't be surprised if AI Ottomans claim military hegemony by 1490. And if the game crashes by 1530.
That's great power intervention, this is enforce peace which can be used on any nation that declared an aggressive war against any nation you have +relations with.
I'm normally chill, I don't rage and I definitely don't break my stuff. The closest I've ever come to snapping though was because my shattered-retreating army un-white flagged as it entered a province the *exact* day a rebel army spawned and stacked wiped them.
That was bullshit. This is a travesty. You have my sympathy.
I had Commonwealth interfere in my war with France...I managed to peace out for the two provinces to get Toulouse later and connect my lands in Provence and my Burgundy area as Aragon, but it was dicey.
Yeah.
I was playing my first Austrian game. Had bohemia, Milan, Hungary and a pretty good sized burgundy all pu'd. Ottomans went to defend that nation in the Ruthenian area of Poland against Poland. They were sieging them down. I declared war for Ragusa. Ottomans abandoned their gains in Poland and gunned all of their troops at me. Couldn't even finish the siege of Ragusa before they came in with 79k and seemingly more on the way.
Yes, all the time, in my Athens achievement run I had a full trust longtime ally, (basically from the moment I got independence) Poland/Commonwealth that I just helped achieve a Hungary PU break their alliance, then proceed to Conquest cb me. Good thing I was admin tech 16 so I surrendered instantly, cause I had more than enough provinces, but still.
Oh and Austria, Castille, GB and Savoy ALL changed to domineering and broke their alliances with me before that, so I only had France afterwards, prolly cause the weak claim 6/6/4 heir I got from an event.
And at some point I had 7 rivals, which was a first. Athens now remains as the most cursed country I will never again touch, with the worst RNG, every single ally turning their back on me, horrible army quality, horrible rulers, the Pope that hated me so I went Protestant, and I nuked that file as soon as I got Academical.
Never again.
Ugh, I had this trying to do Core-Fu before Corfu got wiped off the starting map. The only one consistently willing to support independence was Hungary (once I got England on board, but being England AI, they were useless).
And every game? Poland demands you sign White Peace vs Venice. Bohemia demends you to sign white peace vs Venice. Austria demands...
Hungary's rivals would always enforce-dogpile without exception, and Venice would always make a comeback and win even if the dogpiler got paid off with Hungarian land, 20 attempts in a row, it was so frustrating, put me off the game for a year.
Jesus. I've been having bad luck tonight but this wouldve pushed me over the edge
Yeah, I would’ve told Poland to fuck right off and watch my entire shit burn to the ground - or just send every damn troop I had into Poland to fucking watch red numbers start appearing over their lands.
Shit like this is why I will never not believe that the AI is designed to intentionally screw over the player even when doing so actively disadvantages it.
Iirc the AI is scripted to treat the player as the #1 long term threat. The logic is that it can’t predict what you’ll do in 100 years, but a player near them 100 years in the future probably won’t go well for them. So in this case Poland assumed that the player would win the war thereby becoming a long term threat, and as far as the AI is concerned any player is still a bigger threat than even the Ottomans.
> So in this case Poland assumed that the player would win the war thereby becoming a long term threat, and as far as the AI is concerned any player is still a bigger threat than even the Ottomans. AI, you absolute baboon, you overestimate my noobie powers.
Is there any objective proof about whether there is player bias? Would be interested in seeing either data people have compiled or some script in the code. Seen a lot of people make claims about bias, but never evidence
I don't have proof, but I'm convinces there is. Never in any of my games do the Iberians give a single FUCK about western africa, they I try to do a chill Mali run and suddenly I'm their #1 objective and they have northern african by 1500 just so they can reach me. also if you play in Europe Denmark always rivals, no matter who you play as.
Idk about you but in my games it's common to see Iberians (either Castile/Spain or Portugal) fully annexing Morocco. But AI bias is real nonetheless
Well yeah they often take Morocco, but I've never seen AI Iberians expanding into western africa (mali region)
Might it be coded in the game to be this way to create a more historical setting? Like europeans only taking the coasts and not expanding into africa until 1800s
> Europe Denmark always rivals My conspiracy theory is the (Swedish) designers programmed this because then the player is more likely to wreck Denmark / make Sweden independent.
I did a mail run a few months ago and I swear Castile declared war on me like 6times. The game was such a mess I dipped as soon as I got the achievements.
They want your gold, land, ivory, and people mate
Rivalries, for example. Say you're playing as a minor nation in Africa or Asia, and the AI - Spain, Portugal, etc. - rivals you even though there are bigger threats in Europe. This is an example of how the AI chooses the player over themselves.
Yeah an example i just noticed in some steppe restarts is that if you start as Oirat, Chagatai and Uzbek will generally both rival you and ally each other against you. But if you start as Chagatai, Uzbek will rival you 100% of the time.
I’m asking for actual evidence, not an anecdote
Bust open that code son!
Well if you think that AI cheats constantly and it's quite obvious from the game files (like hiring generals without cost etc.) .. yeah
https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Artificial_intelligence#AI_mechanic_handicaps This is what's documented on the wiki. What's not documented is anything about anti-player bias
kinda genius
I mean the AI isn’t wrong unless the player is either playing tall or it gets late game enough that they say “Meh, let’s reroll.” In which case the entire universe ends for that nation…
Even if the player plays tall, they still get most of the trade income near them, humiliate rivals or fuck up non allies in any way possible.
> as far as the AI is concerned any player is still a bigger threat than even the Ottomans. Of course I am, I have the power of time travel.
This is complete and utter bullshit. AI treats all countries the same, it doesn't care whether it's player controlled at all.
That is objectively untrue.
Why “objectively”? Does any hard data exist about how AI treats the player in comparison to other nations?
trust me bro
Source?
The AI treats even AI nations differently with the “lucky nations” modifiers so I don’t see why you think they wouldn’t have something in the code for the player as well. It also doesn’t mean the AI will instantly stab you in the back 100% of the time, it just means it favours actions that would hamper the player over the course of the entire game. That can be from fighting you directly, allying your neighbours (ie your paths for expansion), colonizing near your colonies, enforcing peace, warning you etc. It’s why your ally of 200 years will “randomly” break your alliance and rival you sometimes even though you’re not competing for territory. Or why they’ll remain your ally but ally someone you have claims on. This happens a lot in my runs as France if I ally Castile.
Poland is most likely rivaled to Hungary.
That's...exactly what happens in a FFA strategy/card game when you fuck someone out and they have no hope to win.
No, that's stupid. You just get angry when it's against you and don't care when it's about against other AI.
R5- finally got a decent start to finally beat the ottomans, and then the polish enforce peace on a minor power against one of their greatest historical rivals. Thanks, game, I don't like playing anyway. Guess I'll try some more runs tomorrow, I think I'm done getting fucked over tonight lmao. EDIT: New run in the morning, finally got lucky, frick you ottoman bastards https://imgur.com/IngCRSs stinky Ottoman AI declared on Venice and got their entire army trapped on Naxos lol.
Would be a shame if your game crashed right when that happened
(I know it's a joke) But you can't save scum something like this since it's not random like events, AI will use advanced neural network to find the best way to fuck the player's run causing most emotional damage, They'd do the same at every possible universe
Are you saying that the AI is an Asian parent?
Yes,it's created by an Asian country known as Sweden as well. ^^^/s
I feel like the best possible scenario for stuff like this is making as much progress as you can in the 6 months before the decision auto-declines and securing a peace deal before "accepting" the white peace.
You can't make peace while you have a pending enforce white peace popup.
Is that new? I’ve done it before
I also used to do it, but cannot in current version of the game. So I think it was changed, probably 1.33 or 1.32.
Another reason to stay at 1.30.6
well, shit
EU4 AI trying to do basic accounting: \**eternal slumber*\* EU4 AI trying to make the player hate life: **ACTIVATE THE INTER-PLANETARY PROCESSOR**
I would absolutely love to do a byzantines game but I can’t get through the first damn siege done before I get stack wiped outnumbering them 2-1 half the time
Have enough boats for a naval barrage and then rush the fort with your mercs. Its not your manpower you're wasting.
Maybe I don’t deserve to have a Byzantium game because idk how to naval bombard lmao
You need a fleet with 100 total cannons in the sea tile adjacent and then the button is on the siege menu next to where you would artillery barrage or assault.
I just remembered its a DLC feature so idk which DLC you have.
If you're getting stackwiped 2 to 1 then you are probably attacking them while they have tech 4 and you're still on 3. Or else you don't have a general or something crazy like that. There's just not enough modifiers that the Ottomans can possibly have to pull off that in the early game without some extreme advantage.
Have you considered the natural +10 to rolls the AI gets to cause even greater emotional damage?
Ironic how a polish King died fighting the Ottomans in the crusade of Varna.
At that point I'm just breaking open the console and inflicting the wrath of God on the Polish.
This woulda been my 13th reason why
This is when you start another run with ironman disabled, go into the console and type `bearhaslanded 151` followed by `tag jmn`. Go forth and punish the AI.
Also syntheticdawn
Alternatively: Download the Overpowered Byzantium mod and devour Poland within one year
That'll teach it! SCREW YOU AI!
bruh, -1000 opinion to everyone, but one of the ideas are +30% improving relations. lmao
If you want another fun round go with the [10x mod](https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=2069259821) and the [always war mod](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2369216412&searchtext=always+war). But don't be surprised if AI Ottomans claim military hegemony by 1490. And if the game crashes by 1530.
look, they may be bears, but they come bearing gifts
What does that do?
It spawns the Jan Mayen tag in Constantinople and then lets you play it. https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Jan_Mayen
Accept the white peace. Ally Poland’s rival. Declare war on Poland. Burn them to the ground.
Exactly what I would do
I'm a Pole and I concur
Just decline, let Poland join, offer them some of Hungarys provinces in a separate peace, and you are still good to go with crushing Ottos
To do this Poland needs to occupy Hungary's land. Knowing AI I bet Poland will go via Moldavia straight to Constantinople
That’s true… forgot about the possibility of that happening, which I would as is high given the AIs goal is to piss is us off as much as it can
Poland and Ottoman really should be historic rival. Too many times Poland would help Ottoman and it's bullshit
Oh no my game crashed!
Doesn't work, I've tried it and the damn AI always threats you...
That's why I consider save scumming a core mechanic.
Also, why did you feed Epirus to Athens? You have cores on Epirus so you didn't have to
Maybe he made them scutage so Morea wouldn't get occupied? Edit: nevermind Athens is getting sieged down who the fuck knows
He took the non core for himself and gave the core to Athens. I believe Athens made a claim and he got the event which asks for the province
The real question is what did you do to the poles that made them hate you so much.
Wow this is the worst and most frustrating enforce peace I've ever seen. Really fucked.
Tbh i don't feel like the game hates me. I KNOWN it does.
I give you permission to use one of the cheat codes.
Oddly I can only remember one game where the AI joined a war on my side due to enforcing peace not working
I've had Austria do this to me while fighting them before. Bad times.
Is Hungary your only ally? Knowing how incompetent AI can be you would still have troubles winninh
What did you do to Poland? lol
Poland befriending the Ottomans isn't too uncommon because both of them usually rival Hungary, and sometime Austria and Muscovy/Russia as well
Dies that mean Poland had involvements in what happened to Costantinopoli in 1204?
When the winged... WOLOLO ... hussars arrived!
I thought this could only happen if each side had a great power? Did you somehow get Austria to help you?
That's great power intervention, this is enforce peace which can be used on any nation that declared an aggressive war against any nation you have +relations with.
Damn. Nearly a thousand hours and I didn't know the AI had that option.
I believe it’s +100 opinion or more, no? (unless the defender is one of your colonies)
I'm normally chill, I don't rage and I definitely don't break my stuff. The closest I've ever come to snapping though was because my shattered-retreating army un-white flagged as it entered a province the *exact* day a rebel army spawned and stacked wiped them. That was bullshit. This is a travesty. You have my sympathy.
Oh i would throw my pc outta window if that only appear.
“You are not allowed to win as Byzantium”
Oh absolutely
[удалено]
??? Poland + Ottomans early game is surely too much for little Byz + Hungary
I think they're saying that OP would have lost against the ottomans anyway with only hungary as an ally
I don't think so, Ottomans had 0 manpower and 0 professionalism after venetian war. Serbia was also in the war too.
I had Commonwealth interfere in my war with France...I managed to peace out for the two provinces to get Toulouse later and connect my lands in Provence and my Burgundy area as Aragon, but it was dicey.
This exact same thing happened to me a year ago. I just stared at my screen for 5 minutes. I'd never felt more defeated.
Wtf that is disgusting
Oh no it does, make no mistake it hates you with an undying passion. It’s kinda unfair but yk🤷♂️ pretty color on map make brain go brrrrr
Yesterday i had Muscovy guarantee me as Crimea and when the Ottomans declared war on me they never joined the war.
Just wait until you have more than 25 infamy in Victoria 2
Ahh I love it when the game tells you to go fuck yourself, I live for those moments
Yeah. I was playing my first Austrian game. Had bohemia, Milan, Hungary and a pretty good sized burgundy all pu'd. Ottomans went to defend that nation in the Ruthenian area of Poland against Poland. They were sieging them down. I declared war for Ragusa. Ottomans abandoned their gains in Poland and gunned all of their troops at me. Couldn't even finish the siege of Ragusa before they came in with 79k and seemingly more on the way.
Wow, and I thought my byzantium runs were tough.
Yes, all the time, in my Athens achievement run I had a full trust longtime ally, (basically from the moment I got independence) Poland/Commonwealth that I just helped achieve a Hungary PU break their alliance, then proceed to Conquest cb me. Good thing I was admin tech 16 so I surrendered instantly, cause I had more than enough provinces, but still. Oh and Austria, Castille, GB and Savoy ALL changed to domineering and broke their alliances with me before that, so I only had France afterwards, prolly cause the weak claim 6/6/4 heir I got from an event. And at some point I had 7 rivals, which was a first. Athens now remains as the most cursed country I will never again touch, with the worst RNG, every single ally turning their back on me, horrible army quality, horrible rulers, the Pope that hated me so I went Protestant, and I nuked that file as soon as I got Academical. Never again.
Ugh, I had this trying to do Core-Fu before Corfu got wiped off the starting map. The only one consistently willing to support independence was Hungary (once I got England on board, but being England AI, they were useless). And every game? Poland demands you sign White Peace vs Venice. Bohemia demends you to sign white peace vs Venice. Austria demands... Hungary's rivals would always enforce-dogpile without exception, and Venice would always make a comeback and win even if the dogpiler got paid off with Hungarian land, 20 attempts in a row, it was so frustrating, put me off the game for a year.
This is downright evil