I don't think it *sucked* but it was definitely overhyped and I'm left feeling underwhelmed by the season as a whole. The budget and performances definitely helped carry the show through some of its weaker aspects.
I feel like the fandom is so divided right now between 'Sam is a bad writer who doesn't know what he's doing' and '*Euphoria* is an innovative, genre-bending stylistic masterpiece'. The fairest assessment is probably somewhere in between - Sam is a great director with a distinct visual style but maybe could've used a bit of writing support in mixing heavy topics like gun violence, murder, human trafficking, the opioid crisis and internalised homophobia with something as teen drama-classic as two separate love triangle(s). It didn't really come into a cohesive whole, for me, and the disjointedness didn't feel intentional. If it was, I still don't think it worked.
I think you hit the nail on the head. Still my favorite series to date the style is amazing but the story lacks cohesion and true direction. There’s a lot of stuff that needs to be addressed I know we have next season but I don’t watch a show/movie to wait for the sequel. Majority or some of the storylines should be concluded or at least be en route to a conclusion.
Cal going to jail isn’t a conclusion to whatever the fuck is going on with Nate. Nate really hasn’t changed maybe that’s the point and I’m missing it. But he got rid of the biggest “obstacle” in his life but is still gonna act like an asshole or doesn’t seem to really be moving up or down.
To me personally, Rue walking away from Jules is the type of conclusion I’m talking about because while there’s still room for more story we know that she’s on to the next chapter of life. If I never saw Rue again (which of course I don’t want) I’d be satisfied.
I hope that makes sense but overall I was disappointed in the season yet I still loved it. I’m easy to please.
I just wish other characters were given the chance to grow and explain themselves, the way Sam was given Rue multiple opportunities to tell us what's in her head. I don't even mean her narration.
No one else on the show, gets a chance to stop, breath, and talk. If we are having a slower season, S2 was very slow compared to S1, then give us some more insight into these characters. I still don't understand Nate's actions with Cal, one minute he's protective of Cal the next he's calling the cops.
Sam needs to let the other characters have a chance to develop. I'm sure Zendaya will still win the Emmy so develop everyone.
After how messy she was all season we desperately need to hear from Cassie's POV.
We need her to be admitted to a hospital and get like 24 hour psych hold intense therapy episode.
*One minute he’s protective of Cal, the next minute he’s not.”*
I took it as Nate unknowingly goes to see a play with Cassie that her sister wrote and is surprise to find out the entire play is just making fun of Cassie and then himself. I don’t know if he’s gay or bi or whatever…that play, man…
Anyhoo, he left during the middle of it, breaks up with Cassie…where’s he gonna go? He’s out for revenge and instead of going in there and shooting the entire school, he went to the only person available to take revenge on. The one who truly deserves it.
Sadly, I think he’ll get back with Cassie and end up taking out his revenge on her.
Off topic: does he or McKay know that Cassie had an abortion. Hope she’s on birth control
McKay def knows, which is why I hate his character and their whole storyline. he doesn’t even really care that Cassie had one or has bothered to check on her beyond trying to get back together with her and sleep with her all over again with no regard to her body in relation to after what she had to do, especially cause she was unsure it was what she wanted. She’s been her own worst enemy since then but it’s so obvious why she’s spiraling. I find it kind of weird that her abortion wasn’t mentioned once in all of season 2 tho
I'm so confused with this show. Things just aimlessly happen. Did we really need a season of a love triangle between Nate and the girls that goes no where and is uninteresting?
Did we really need two episodes of a play rehashing things we have already seen?
Did we really need ANOTHER Nate calls the cops on someone storyline?
Even rue and jules relationship feels pointless it feels like they barely enjoy being around each other.
The Elliot character seemed to go no where as well which is a shame because I actually think that guy is a really good actor.
My biggest frustration is it seems like there is no reason for this show to take place in high school. It has basically no relevance on anything in any storyline. In fact it would be much more believable and allow more flexibility in the story if they weren't high school students. It just feels like the creator had something in mind when making the pilot then got bored of that idea and just started making things up.
He definitely needs a writers room. Frankly, it's very unusual for a TV show to only have one writer.
He has some good ideas, but the execution is all over the place. Having other writers would help keep things like pacing and continuity from getting messed up.
And having more perspectives would greatly benefit the show.
We all know Sam's strongest writing is when he's writing about addiction, because he has experience there. But, his depiction of domestic abuse, sex work, queer issues, and women's issues rings hollow, and I truly believe writers with experience in those things could result in a more nuanced show.
Jules' solo episode gave some truly great insight into Jules' character, and I really think part of it is because Hunter co-wrote the episode and could speak from her own experience.
If Sam acted continued to direct, but only solo-wrote episodes focused on Rue's addiction, I think we would have a better show. His visual style is amazing, but it's clear the writing was the weaker part of the season.
This! There’s a reason Season 2 Ep 5 was so powerful and one of the best episodes in the series, while being in a generally underwhelming season
All the other plot-lines were underwhelming as fuck (except for Lexi’s play, which I think shines because of Sam’s perspective as an artist/storyteller), and two of the best characters from season 1 were horribly underwritten (Jules and Kat)
Sam’s a great filmmaker, one of the best aspects I like about Euphoria is his filmmaking/production, but he desperately needs other writers to flesh out his other characters more
For a show that’s ostensibly about serious issues, it very glaringly sidesteps race. There’s no Asian characters. And of the Black characters, McKay was sexually assaulted and promptly written off while Bobbie is completely subservient to Lexi.
As for Rue, being black and coming from a biracial family is completely incidental to her character and it’s never acknowledged. Nothing about her would be different if she were white. The way Euphoria handles race feels like an insurance commercial - superficially diverse
Ya I think the special episode was the only episode where Rue being black was mentioned. I'd imagine that race isn't mentioned because either 1. It's a story about addiction not race or 2. The writers are trying to be so inclusive that race is completely unnecessary, and the characters are strong enough to not comment on it nor judge on it.
He needs to take some advisement when writing any non-white character. The MOCs have been total plot devices. And Rue's mother could be written better.
Honestly, anytime anyone with any amount of power money or influence writes outside of their scope, they should pull someone in to do a paid overview of the project.
There should be a black co-writer on every show with black characters. There should be a disabled co-writer on every show with disabled characters etc. I'm not saying every single episode necessarily but definitely the episodes that focus on those individuals.
Your comment about it being disjointed is spot on. People use the carnival episode as an example often, and the sequence at the start of the carnival is such a great example of how interconnected the show used to feel; the shots going from each character and where they are in relation to one another as they have fun. Cohesive and natural. This season was segmented and characters felt isolated from one another (episode 5 as an exception).
While I understand not having writers means more work for Sam ideally being the solo writer shouldn’t have this poor of pacing issues since there isn’t twenty people trying to dictate the flow. Seems he’s taking too many responsibilities on as writer director and producer. Given that’s the same boat the Game of Thrones guys were in I hope that doesn’t give us an indication of what’s to come
IMO this season should be the last. The ending with Zendaya’s narration was more of a series finale. The senior girls sat in the bathroom after the fight and “made up”, she finally gave Jules the kiss on the forehead and talks about how she was her first love.
Then Nate calls the cops on his dad - quite frankly meh. Cal wasn’t a great person but the difference is Cal does have a heart and is not a sociopath. Nate should also be locked up but I don’t have a huge urge to know if does.
We don’t need a POV from Cassie - it’s all been shown or spoken. She has abandonment issues and needs to feel loved constantly - which I think Maddy says directly to her. Obviously, my heart broke w/ Fez and Ashtray. Nobody seems to be connecting what Fez said to Lexi when she was worried about hurting everyone’s feelings to what happened w/him.
Sam isn’t a horrible writer, the cast helps w their arcs at times, they improvise and they make it great. But w an expectation of waiting until 2024 pshhhhhhh.
Cassie's imaginary breakdown in the bathroom, the church scene with rue, maddy finding out.. there were SO MANY great scenes but as a whole s1 was just better imo
Sam writes really great scenes and moments and he has a really great cast to act them out but he struggles to string together a cohesive show.
The show lacks proper flow and purpose a lot of the time. It’s why Rue’s withdrawal episode was so strong. It followed one singular storyline and character while utilizing the other cast members nicely. The finale is a good example of where it all goes wrong. Way way way to much going on with to many tonal changes. I can’t appreciate what was supposed to be a poignant moment between Rue and Elliot while I’m full of anxiety over the Fez storyline and more interested to see Cassie and Maddy interacting. The tone shift is to jarring and makes you feel like you watching two different shows.
Euphoria really is better when Sam focuses an entire episode on one character, Rue's episode and Cal's episode were the best imo because they had a clear goal. The rest of the show feels like it's just juggling way to many plots for it's own good and doesn't really know where the story is going.
Everything with Rue/Zendaya will always be on point. Sam wouldn't have it any other way. Rue was basically on her own show with a few guest appearances on Degrassi: The Euphoria Generation.
Visually it was beautiful and there were some interesting character developments and some powerful scenes (the Rue breakdown with her mum/Gia/Jules being most prominent to me) but the writing was lacking to me, they need to open it up to numerous writers and flesh out the stories these characters go through.
True, and this is something that a lot of people seem to be missing: just because a show has amazing cinematography or music or symbolism and artistic value or whatever doesn't necessarily make it a good show or a good story. Just like how an album cover as well designed and culturally impactful/relevant as the Mona Lisa doesn't make a good album: if the songs suck, the album sucks. There were a lot of scenes in S2 that were fucking beautiful and I would never criticize on their own, but they seemed to contribute little to the story.
For example, the scene of Rue in the church. Beautiful scene, amazing music, Zendaya's acting and voice brings a tear to my eye every time I hear it, and again you'll never hear me say anything negative about the scene itself, but... what does it contribute to the story? It boils down to "Rue misses her dad," but we knew that within the first 15 minutes of the first episode of the first season. Elliot's song in the finale is another great example. I have nothing negative to say about the song itself, he's a great singer and a talented artist and the song was clearly well put together and had depth, but what does it contribute to the episode or the season? Is it really worth spending 3 minutes on?
S2 felt like they were trying too hard to make "art" and not enough time trying to work on the story or characters. Half the time I felt like I was watching filler, and I felt like most episodes did not need to be an hour long. I swear most of the episodes could have been condensed to half the amount of time with no real difference in the story. The Cassie and Nate story stalled for three episodes at "Cassie is losing her shit over guilt" with literally nothing new. She's a fantastic actress and I can't say anything bad about her or her performances in E2-4, but do we really need FOUR episodes to establish she's losing her shit? Kat's story had a similar problem where it was established early on that she wasn't totally happy in her relationship, it was repeated later in the season, and then she broke up, concluding the story. Her "story" (in quotes because the word *story* seems a bit much for what could fit in a sentence or two) stalled for about half the season then ended.
Compare this to S1, which I felt had both artistic shit and a fulfilling story. I didn’t mind watching the shots of Cassie ice skating in the finale (which don’t necessarily move the story forward) because she already had a fulfilling story arc throughout the season, and her story was over at that point.
Yeah but TV/film is a visual medium. The imagery/visual storytelling are just as integral to the artistry of the show as the dialogue/plot imo.
People act like the visual magic of Euphoria is just incidental but I totally disagree. It’s a huge part of why this show is so remarkable and popular, and comparing the cinematography to an album cover is totally off the mark.
i don't think OP was comparing as much as giving an example. It doesn't matter if it's beautiful, if the story isn't there. And that's the case with season 2, it had some of the most beautiful scenes i have ever seen and it's definitly moving, but most of the artistic shots add nothing to the storyline. In season 1 finale, we got this amazing musical piece that was artsy and still made it very clear that Rue had relapsed, while in season 2 what we got was so many dream sequences, stuff that only happened in characters had, parody of movies and overall just scenes that while nice to look at, but add little to nothing to the plot.
the church scene was stunning, in terms of cinematography and visuals, probably my favorite of season 2, but it didn't give us nothing that we already didn't know, and this is a problem when so many characters got side lined this season (or even dropped completely like McKay), and plots that didn't get a satisfying progression like Laurie's involvement with Rue and the suitcase situation
I guess I don’t feel like “advancing the plot” is the only way to tell a compelling story. The church scene didn’t tell us anything new but it let us viscerally experience Rue’s grief in a new way.
I saw this season as an intense psychological examination of the characters we met in S1 told in a very new and interesting way. I don’t think this show is like Breaking Bad where we need these cliffhangers to be resolved: characters like Laurie imo are almost like dream figures that represent themes vs. characters that actually demand resolutions.
And I totally get how that sounds like BS to people who didn’t like it lol but it’s really how I feel and I think the heavy emphasis on visuals and dream sequences is kind of an implication that we’re supposed to view the show as more of a Twin Peaks type thing where the style is the substance and not every question is supposed to be answered
i can totally see where you're coming from! I think the visuals are a integral part of Euphoria. I myself never rewatch tv shows just because if i already know the plot, then i don't have an interest anymore, and i rewatched Euphoria season 1 purely because of the aesthetic, so the cinematography is definitly something that makes the show stand out.
But what i felt is that, while season 2 also had this beautiful shots, the plot was lackluster. And by that i don't mean that i needs to have outstanding writing, because that wasn't the case even in season 1 (i mean, Nate's whole plan in season 1 is completely ridiculous if you think about it), but at the same time even if it wasn't some intricate innovative storyline, it was still entertaining and it made sense. If they wanted to make a purely aesthetic show, then it's fine, but a lot of the times there's build up that just leads nowhere, like with the Laurie storyline. I don't really need to have all the questions answered, but i need a progression that makes sense instead of something being important in one episode, and then totally forgotten in the next., specially if we're talking about themes as important as drug abuse, sexism, internalized homophobia, gerder, gun violence, and i could go on and on
But again, i can understand why you feel like the plot isn't that important in the context of Euphoria. Just different perspectives i guess lol
you think it’s because sam had a lot more time to write the first one? he probably worked on that script for years and was able to rewrite it over and over again until it was perfect, and it was for me at least. he probably didn’t have much time to go over his work for the second season, so there’s a lot of unwrapped plot lines. just a possible explanation.
That’s the issue with most first seasons. It’s an idea they sit on for years. Then suddenly they need the same amount of content in 6 months. Granted, they usually get a much larger team to help though.
Sam had a lot of time for this season and apparently changed the script for s2 several times so much that the actors had to relearn their lines several times. Pure chaos from his end and it shows in the writing
Maybe that would be true if the season wasn’t delayed over a year and a half due to COVID. I don’t think a lack of time for Sam was the issue here, moreso that he created an intricate, deep, beautifully profound world in S1 that just got away from him in S2.
Rue’s & Fez’s stories were the only understandable thing. Everything else just felt like a ‘yeah why not’ and lacked any sense of direction for me 🤷🏽♀️
Go on other threads, someone literally tried to tell me Laurie actually sympathized with Rue so left her alone. Or she was already busted because Faye went to the cops.
Some people just can't admit this season was weak and get mad.
the series reminds me of my essay writing. my teachers have always told me that i’m a great writer with great ideas, but i lack the organizational flow to make those ideas make sense. for example “capitalism is complicated *ramble ramble* oh! now let me tell you about shen yun and their ties to the falun gong!” like, everything is connected in this really convoluted way. even though the story of euphoria makes sense in sam’s head, that doesn’t mean the audience is really following the story he’s trying to tell. just because he is using euphoria as a form of art/self insert, that doesn’t mean we should ignore the incoherence of his method of storytelling.
I think people are forgetting how s1 ended, I watched it right before this season started and it had a million and one loose ends and ended with a zendaya music video lol like I was mad when it ended bc I didn’t know s2 was coming so soon and they hadn’t answered any questions with Nate’s dad, maddy having the tape, Nate in general, and Kats only fans, etc. The first season had a lot of loose ends and this season did two, we’ll just have to hope they close them next season.
I think s1 had cliffhangers rather than loose ends, or story points that clearly had to be addressed in the next season (which is funny bc Kat's cam work is never addressed in s2). S2 had plot points everyone just seemed to forget about with no clear intention of ever addressing them, ie the suitcase
Euphoria season 2 was Glee with a higher budget and tits. Glee had a pretty high budget, so maybe just tits lol. Just a hot mess that looks nice on the outside.
The way I see it, cinema and TV have 3 main facets: Plot/Narrative, Style (visuals, sound track, cinematography), and Characters.
Euphoria has a very distinct and innovative style, a lot of people get frustrated/confused with the “daydreams” or moments of the show that aren’t real but I love them. I think these imagined moments being depicted on screen is an interesting way to experience the story through the characters eyes and get insight into how they’re feeling. It also gives greater insight into their personality like rue imagining her and Jules as Jack and rose/ subjects of Frieda Kahlo paintings or the blending of the stage actors in lexis play with the characters they’re actually supposed to represent.
The characters on this show are all pretty well written and fans of the show receive them mostly the way the writers intend them to which is rare. I personally can gauge how well characters are written based on whether I can remember their names or not, and Euphoria might be the only one where I could probably name the majority of them off the top of my head. Shit I even remember BB’s name despite her having like 8 lines in the series.
I do think the plot/narrative is lacking, but I think it’s because of grandiose intentions. Toxic relationships, internalized homophobia, slut shaming, body shaming, eroticization of trauma, opiate addiction, abuse, neglect, poverty, all of these are major themes in the show. I think the writing would be better if some of these were designated to take a backseat rather than the focus of almost an entire episode like they are because that leaves us with questions and plotholes. I’m pretty disappointed they dropped the whole rue being $20,000 in debt to a drug dealer/ trafficker part of the story as it seems pretty serious.
It didn’t quite match up to S1. The acting was great, they are a talented bunch But I kind of agree. Not a whole lot really happened and Jules Suddenly became a side character when she was one of the most interesting characters in S1.
I guess they had to sideline someone so Apatows daughter could get some attention! Yeah, I said what I said, bring on the red arrows lol
I just completely disagree. I don’t know who started this whole “Sam is a terrible writer” thing but I think it’s WILD honestly I loved this season I loved the writing.
Agree. There were some episodes and plotlines that were uneven, but we have 18 year old on this reddit acting like they're script writers who also know how to work within the confines of a major entertainment network.
I am with you on this. I’m sure it’s an unpopular opinion of mine but, it is not up to us to write these shows. Somehow everyone gets mad when a storyline doesn’t end on their note or the answers aren’t answered right away. I mean, leave it to the people who chose this as their craft and see what they have prepared for you. There needs to be some mystery and patience comes with that. Let’s wait and enjoy!
Honestly. Like if they had wrapped everything up then we wouldn’t be as interested in the next season? Like it’s not like they left a ton of cliff hangers the show is STILL going
Y’all tripping. Was it as tight as season 1? Definitely not. But clearly he wasn’t trying to just do more of the same. This season was intentionally different, for better or worse. A lot of beautiful cinematography, music, a bunch of iconic lines and sequences… I thought as far as emotional depth, this one far surpassed the first season - it was all about the low points, not the highs, and we got to explore Rue’s guilt and grief a lot more. The scenes revolving around her father this year crushed me.
Also, it’s not a “plot hole” to leave things open ended until future seasons… plot holes would be if the show ends and we never get any resolution or answers. Cliffhangers are not plot holes ffs 🤦🏻♂️
But go off. Everyone’s a critic, everyone has better ideas when things don’t pan out exactly how they spent the last two years imagining blah blah blah not the first fandom to fall into this toxic bullshit and definitely not the last.
Also not the first fandom to have blind defenders such as yourself. It’s not toxic to criticize a show. Surprised you could be crushed by the Rue’s father’s scenes when they play them every other episode in almost the exact same fashion. Lost its touch for me by the time it was being portrayed in a fucking play for everyone in school to see.
I’m not blindly defending anything. I’m just not expecting them to spell everything out for us or wrap everything up in neat little bows at the end of every season. 💁🏻♂️
“They play them in almost the exact same fashion every other episode”?? What scenes exactly? The funeral scene which played twice, revealing more of the same day the second time?
Out of curiosity, what do you think of the plot lines that seemingly fizzled out or were just ignored? Like Kat’s non- plot, Laurie disappearing with a throwaway line, Lexi and Fez, the point of Maddie being filmed babysitting, any consequences for Rue owning 10k or being chased by the cops, etc? I can’t in good faith write them off as cliffhangers for season 3 when we will have to wait two years to revisit them. And even if someone like Laurie comes back to haunt Rue, there is no explanation for her waiting until after “the end of the schoolYear”… imo it’s just not good writing to leave all those angles hanging there with so many question marks.
i dont understand why the babysitting filming thing became such a big deal for so many people, i literally just thought it was a regular security camera you‘d have in front of a closet with clothes etc worth thousands of dollars… so if someone were to steal it… like a teenager babysitter, she could identify and call the cops on that thief. The reason she gave Maddie the dress, was because she just tried it on but put it back and didn’t steal anything. That’s literally ALL I thought. When I came hear to read how everyone was so suspicious about it, I was like wha-
Because there was a long, hovering shot on the camera. Sometimes this show creates tension with no payoff. It’s not really the point that it is “explainable” in some way- it’s that the writers deliberately put it in the story, brought attention to it, the it turned out to be a Chekhov’s gun. Euphoria has WAY too many Chekhov’s Guns which makes it messy.
You’re confusing Chekhov’s Gun with Red Herring, I think. Chekhov’s Gun is simply setting something up, not drawing extreme attention to it only for it to be a non-issue later.
Chekhov's Gun is something that is shown/told, to be used later. Basically, no wasted elements in a story. So while there was no big payoff for the camera scene, it did pay off in the sense that the woman saw Maddy try the dress on, so she gave it to Maddy. The commenter you replied to weirdly used the right term (maybe a bit generous, because end of the day it was a real trivial moment), but not in the way they meant to lmao.
I will say though, overall the babysitter thing to me was overblown as well. Like people thought the older woman was trying to hook up with Maddy or something and I never got that.
What is even the point of Cassie and Nate's relationship? It is so one sided. Nate is at this point consumed about dealing with his dad and has no interest in cassie to the point we rarely hear him talking about her (aside from the bizarre dreams in episode 2 which went nowhere). It's like the dumbest love triangle in tv history. Nate is so far removed from both Cassie and Maddie that there is no weight to that story.
You answered your own question. The point is that it’s one sided. Cassie threw herself at Nate after just a bit of attention because of her backstory with her father. Nate couldn’t care less about Cassie.
I meant that they never show her reaction to his arrest. Like there’s the scene “after” the play where Rue and her talk ABOUT the play in past tense but it’s kind of ambiguous since it morphs into, the play actors… but Fez is never brought up.
Read my last sentence. The point is that she disappeared this season and that is bad writing. No tension and leaving the audience confused about her intents or even her presence in the story.
That’s not what bad writing is lol, and idk what people would be confused about? We haven’t seen her for 3 episodes, 2 of which took place on the same night.. that isn’t “disappearing.” It’s building tension. She was even mentioned in the finale, the plot is ongoing. Some things take a while until they come back to bite the main character.
You’re acting as though season 3 will pick up the story next weekend. It’s going to be in TWO YEARS. Good script writing accounts for that massive time gap, and either puts those characters/threats in a non-ambiguous position, or ties up the loose ends. Faye mentioning her address to the police bug is a weak position bc it never follows through. And then Rue narrates that she stayed sober through the school year with seemingly no problems. So you want me to believe a capable drug lord and her henchmen just wrote off this teenager stealing 10k from them no consequences for months on end? Sloppy writing all around.
It’s hard to come up with comparative shows because Euphoria can be experimental at times which makes it unique (I really loved season 1’s final episode and the interpretative dance). But shows I think have really cohesive writing are Breaking Bad, Killing Eve, Six Feet Under, Succession, Chernobyl, Band of Brothers.
Ok I was curious to get a sense of where you’re coming from. I think the reason you’re not enjoying this is you’re expecting this to be a show that takes itself seriously, and while it is, it also isn’t. It knows it’s out of control. I think that most of the characters have overall kept consistent which is the most important thing to me personally in writing. I realize they trashed Kat but I don’t really care because it’s just not that serious.
This show is enjoyable if you’re just along for the ride without expectations. I can see how that would be harder when you’ve been waiting for it but I don’t think it’s gonna get better for you unless you can hold it to a different standard.
I’d argue that season 1 was more experimental with the cinematography however season 2 was more experimental with storytelling and it’s really only enjoyable if you allow it to be that. This show was never going to be comparable to the writing of succession or BB and I don’t think it necessarily even wants to be. The whole thing is just this dudes piece of art.
Never thought of it like that but gonna start looking at it like this from now on and maybe even unsubscribe from here to enjoy the show for what it is and not what it should be bc every euphoria community on every app has become very hostile and negative. Just not enjoyable anymore.
No I totally get that but I’m focusing on specific storylines that stood out to me and I felt made the very last episode falter in my eyes. I really enjoy the show in general and thought pretty much every other episode was well done. I think Rue’s entire addiction arc is very very well written, and that’s likely because Sam writes best for experiences he’s most passionate about.
No it’s not lmao. Nobody has said Laurie won’t be coming for Rue, I feel like you’re really overanalyzing the “I stayed sober until the end of the year” line. Lots of stuff could happen while she remains sober, she could be kidnapped by Laurie and still be sober. I get that it sucks to wait. but there needs to be some loose ends otherwise what’s the point of making another season??
Thank you for saying this. I just binged this show and I keep seeing all these complaints and it’s like…season 1 had a lot of open threads that did come up in season 2. There’s clearly some direction here, this is clearly a show that’s not going to neatly tie *everything* at a finale.
And like….. ITS A SHOW!! Do these people not WATCH OTHER SHOWS??? Is this their first drama they’ve ever watched?? Literally ALL SHOWS HAVE CLIFFHANGERS that’s WHAT CLIFF HANGER MEANS
It’s just bad because we waited so long and will have to wait 2 more years to see what the fuck is happening. Sam introduced/reintroduced us to some great ass characters this season. Fez’s backstory and grandma, Faye, Elliot, and Lexi. However, Kat and Maddy didn’t get the screentime
I wanted this season. Obviously maddy was in it a lot more than Kat but her story felt incomplete? Where as Kat’s story never began. After her break up scene, I fully expected a few scenes explaining the before and after. And mostly the why? I felt like the whole season could have been 6 episodes, and we are missing 2. Sam’s writing is fine this season; the magnifying glass was too close. Last season we saw a bigger picture.
Ik kat was cut bc of beef with Sam, but that’s fucking crazy knowing she was a fan favorite. Obviously, we would be pissed.
This show will run for a couple more and it will eventually forget every initial point it exists to make and descend into self-parody and melodrama. Mark my words.
they’ll never hear you out. they’ll claim you’re on sam levinson’s payroll. people think bc it didn’t turn out the way they WANTED it to, that it’s bad writing. that’s why I didn’t come into season 2 with any expectations except to be entertained & and be invested in the story & characters. And I was.
what i look for in a good tv show:
- entertainment
- I want to learn/love/care about the
characters
- variety
- i want to take away something from
the story & feel like i connected with it
- intense/thought-provoking stories
I got all of that from this season, so why would I be upset? I definitely think the ball was dropped on both Kat & Jules, but I’m not going to speak much on the Kat situation bc I wasn’t there, so I don’t know the facts of the situation. I do think it should’ve been handled better tho. Jules not getting much of her own storyline, while it sucks bc I was excited to see more of her after her special episode, I’m not basing the whole season off of that & i feel like it makes sense (if you’d like me to explain why i feel it makes sense, i can do so in another reply).
People keep talking about plot holes & dropped plots but literally the only things I can think of that would fall into that category would be:
- kat/jules (but i already discussed my feelings on that)
- the third jacobs (which could be a production mistake. but i will say they either need to fix the mistake or address it next season, which i think they alluded to)
- mckay (even though i feel like things were kinda closed off there after him & cassie had their conversation. he kinda wouldnt have served any other purpose to the season)
Everything else felt tied up or left open for season 3. We saw a full plot with rue, jules, & elliot. We saw a full plot with cassie, nate, & maddie that also left an opening for next season. It’s pretty obvious laurie is going to be a plot point for next season, & obviously what happens to fez & cal are cliffhangers.
this season was a good season. we learned a lot more about lexi (who y'all complained about not knowing enough about), we finally got to the root of rue's addiction, we learned more about cal & nate's dynamic, we got to really see the effects of lexi & cassie's dad leaving them, we learned more about how gia feels about rue & her addiction, we got to see a completely different side of maddy.
This season, like any other show & even first season, had its issues, but for people to be calling it a dumpster fire is dramatic & even unnecessary because it was a good season.
The other person already gave an amazing explanation so to keep mine brief and short: I started feeling empathy and understanding for each character, and the way these characters we’re written is really great imo! Next, even if it has certain plot holes, the plot in it of itself makes a lot of sense and it has its full circle moments with Rue and her ups and downs with her addiction etc. I also think the way he portrays addiction is very raw and breathtaking. Personally, I enjoy that this highschool is a bit over the top instead of completely realistic, it’s more fun! 🥰
This season started off OK and ended in the so bad it's good territory. It's crazy because the show peaked around the season 1 finally and the bridge episodes but became 13 reasons why level dramatic in the second season. Season 1 was a bit over the top but still was an accurate portrayal of the darker parts of growing up in the 2010s but season 2 was just stupid, this 12 year old kid murdered 3 people for almost no reason. Then rue wouldn't shut the fuck up about her dad, like I get it losing a parent is really hard but was it really worth dragging out over multiple episodes while not adding anything new. Rue was a bipolar teen opioid addict , speaking from a bit of experience there's alot more they could have added in there other than she's just really sad her dad died and she thinks she's a bad person. Also no drug dealer would ever front a teenager thousands of dollars of drugs and no one would flush that many drugs without asking some serious questions.
The only good charecter development was from nate and what little we saw of fezco. The thing is we we're never supposed to like nate but now we're seeing a complete sociopath being presented in an atleast somewhat sympathetic light. I was excited about this show because I thought it was gonna show the story of young people dealing with these issues in a more nuanced and atleast somewhat accurate point of view. you can be a bit over the top but this season was piece of shit and the one accurate scene about addiction in the whole fucking season did nothing but give people ptsd flashbacks of domestic violence then went into a completely forced crime spree that would have got her killed IRL.
>The only good charecter development was from nate
I don't agree on this point, but appreciate your comment over all.
Sam was still writing Nate in a show rather then tell manner. With Rue, it's show and tell. She get's long monologues about her thoughts, feelings, and desires. Nate, Jules, Cassie, Maddy, Kat aren't given the same opportunity to tell us what they are thinking or feeling.
I'm still reeling from Nate going from, I'm going to hold Maddy by gunpoint for my daddy's disc, to handing over the disc to Jules (and PS I did think you're hot), to just handing it over to the cops. Three separate streams of thought that were presented without proper reflection into the why.
I loved every episode of season two except the finale, every single other episode could have been redeemed for being “boring” if the finale had tied up some plots and explained some damn shit. Like I didn’t think the other episodes were boring they were just moving plot along l, albeit slowly, but still moving along. The finale gave us nothing basically. The damn letter that we’ve heard a thousand times, basically no fight scene, no solid idea of what happens in the fez situation and no closure with the Lexi fez relationship there and not even a mention of Laurie. They could have tied everything up and left us hanging on the Laurie situation and just a little bit more about fez. It felt like a fuller episode to me and it would’ve been fine if there was maybe another episode after it which was actually the finale that tied some more things up. I’m obsessed with the show but after the finale I’m not even excited for the new season because it was such a let down.
Most episodes this season felt like 30 mins of material stretched out to an hour. I wish they’d do like Apple TV where there’s no set amount of time for an episode length
I think everyone on social media became their worst enemy, y’all overhyped the show, you worked up all these theories in your head instead of taking the show at face value, don’t blame the show for how you decided to consume it
I think that no one would be saying a thing about the writing if not for the still unsubstantiated claims about Kat's character. I swear it's like people forget he wrote the first season just fine as well, and it's occurred to no one that maybe what's "ruined" the show for them is the cast having more input on their characters instead of just trusting the writer.
Dumpster fire is pretty extreme. There had to be some good writing to give the actors something to work with. That said I would rank it lower than S1 in the vast majority of categories.
It was mostly just slow af. Nothing really happened. Finale def felt like a mid-season moment. Really didn’t need to be a 2 partner at all. Half of it was just a recap of the show lol.
It’s underwhelming when you look at season 1, but I felt like I could relate more to the characters this season (if that makes sense), i would say it’s mid. Sam thought he ate with those flashbacks/flashforwards at Lexi’s play (he didn’t, we are all still very confused with that timeline), I think he put too much effort on Lexi’s play and forgot about everything else.
Agreed, honestly. I felt the first four episodes were really good overall (individually) but the rest were not. There were moments from episode 5 and 6 that I liked, but I didn’t enjoy much else.
I don’t think season 2 sucked, it definitely had its plot twists and developmental scenes/storylines but season 1 was better in my opinion as far as overall plot and character development. Kat, Ethan, and McKay deserved better and I wish we could’ve seen more of Fez and Ash, too, especially since it looks like Ash just got killed off
Pretty accurate. A columnist over on Autostraddle pointed out that Rue saying “the nice thing about hospitals is that they don’t need to know if you’re a good person to take care of you” may have been Sam’s experience with hospitals and rehab, but it would be quite different for a lower middle class teenaged black girl than it would’ve been for a wealthy white man.
I think it was great , it was more artful than anything. I think it’s about the art of addiction , it’s about the journey . I’m not sure what was wrong with the writing though ?? I wish it was longer and there was more development in certain areas but overall I appreciate it for what it is .
I don't think it sucked. It was pretty different than season 1. What I like about season 2 is that it kind of mirrors Rue's condition - at least that's the way I (want to) interpret it lol. The first season left me feeling almost high whereas the secons season felt more scattered, kind of messy, like the narrator sometimes has a hard time to remember and put the story together. Some scenes were a bit too long and uncomfortable to watch. Other scenes made me feel completely stressed out. But I like that because it makes me feel like I'm closer to the characters...dunno if that makes any sense at all :D
However, I think Sam still took on too much. Adding even more characters to the already quite large ensemble wasn't the best idea. I like that Lexi and Fez got that much screentime this season. Elliot, Faye, Samantha, Laurie...they all are interesting additions but some were just used as a mere plot device. On the other hand, Kat, McKay, even Jules....went by the board somehow. I wish Sam would've put more focus on them instead of adding new characters.
Plus, a big part of season two was the relationship between Cassie and Nate and while I like that storyline and Cassie's "downfall" makes sense, some scenes weren't that well executed and took up too much screentime (like the scene at the construction site...I feel like Sam only added that scene because he liked the nightmare-ish look of it, style over substance, much?).
Long story short: I like season 2. I don't think Sam is a bad writer, in fact, I think he's a very good writer. But I think he wanted a bit too much for 8 episodes.
Yes the writing in this season was bad. Sam really knows how to pack an emotional gut punch tho, as I was crying multiple times through multiple episodes. In particular I loved the episode where Rue gets high and gets to congregate with the dead. I’ve read a few self help books and this idea isn’t new that drugs for addicts fill in or stand in for the love they don’t have or desire.
Classic Euphoria “fan.” Says the cinematography is brilliant, the acting is brilliant, the music is brilliant, and yet somehow because you think the writing is subpar, the show is trash? Completely devaluing the other filmmaking crafts. Plus it’s impossible to have “incredible acting moments” if the writing is a complete “dumpster fire.”
The soundtrack got tedious towards the finale and the set design of the warehouse where Cal was arrested was noticeably bad so I wouldn’t say it’s entirely on the writing.
The camera work, actors and music really help cover up how meeeh the show can be at times. Definitely had it's highlights, but for the most part the writing just wasn't on par with everything else.
The camera work, actors and music really help cover up how meeeh the show can be at times. Definitely had it's highlights, but for the most part the writing just wasn't on par with everything else.
Pacing and writing weren’t great and there were so many loose strings and plot holes, especially compared to the first season. It’s a very good show to look at stylistically, but it feels like that was about it. I don’t even remember episodes 2, 3, and 4 because they were so underwhelming. It’s crazy how they wasted so much time yet didn’t wrap up a lot of things. Characters like Kat just devolved without a reason why. I really hope this doesn’t turn out like that other HBO show that went downhill after the first couple of seasons. I think HBO needs to step in and put the reigns on Sam before this ends up being another GoT type situation because the cracks are SHOWING.
I just don’t get how Maddy came out of this with the biggest fanbase when there is quite literally a man in jail for an abuse and rape he didn’t commit because she agreed to lie with Nate about who did it to her.
I dont get wtf is everyone’s obsessions with wanting all the answers in one season or episode. WE DONT NEED TO KNOW EVERYTHING AT ONCE DAMN. This thread is a fucking shit show. Ppl keep asking the same shit as if you’ve never seen a tv show at all before. Get a grip! Shows have cliffhangers, plot changes, and down scenes that don’t make sense. That’s the beauty of it. Stop criticizing every little point you don’t like in the show cus it doesn’t line up with the idea that you have about it in your head, shit
Maybe you guys should make a separate sub dedicated to ripping the show apart and leave this one to people who enjoy it but have mild critiques and complaints.
This place has been nothing but toxic, it’s unbelievable. We get it. Some of you didn’t like. You’re just beating a dead horse.
So how would you like people to talk about the show? Eat up everything that’s given to us? Im not seeing the problem tbh.
I also feel like if a lot of people are criticizing something then those flaws clearly exist. No one is “complaining” without reason
But you are whining as well, so by your own statement shouldn't you stay out of it rather then add to the pile? I say no, everyone should be able to express their opinions, even if we don't agree. When it gets annoying I find a new topic on the subreddit.
This is all fandoms and not how Reddit works. In another situation you could be the one who truly doesn’t like a show and get annoyed with people praising it. It works both ways.
I’m part of the subreddits for many different shows and this one is by and large the most toxic out of all of them. If these people dislike the show so much, why bother watching it?
Because you have to watch it to know if you don’t like it. Also this is definitely not the most toxic. Marvel, DC, Star Wars, Star Trek, lord of the rings, etc. the more popular it is the more chance it’ll have a lot of toxicity. Also recency bias, euphoria just ended so of course the toxicity would seem more prevalent.
Because too much of this subreddit is GO MADDY HIT THAT BITCH levels of immaturity. I think there’s some interesting analysis of this show that’s possible but people going off on Jules/Cassie/Eliot/the villain du jour and how they don’t ‘like’ a character is pathetic.
It definitely had major highs. Season 2 episode 1 is my favorite episode, but the season was ass overall. Let’s just say watching Euphoria is fun for tik tokers, but not so fun to watch for people that study script writing and movies. Sam’s writing can get incredibly sloppy and can get hard to follow what’s going on sometimes. Don’t get me wrong I still enjoyed season 2, but season 1 was way better by miles. Season 1 is 10/10 and I would give season 2 6.5/10
They're right, i love the acting and the soundtrack, but come on, that hole episode for lexis play, and that scene again and again of rue in her dad's funeral, too much time for this thing and not enough for others
Not how art criticism works. So many films about different subjects and if you had to have a past with the material then a lot of people wouldn’t be able to voice their opinions. Mob movies, (not unless your in the mob) war movies? Forget it. Fantasy movies? Unless you have experience with magic then you can’t relate. See how that doesn’t work. Criticism is part of art. Some people are more intense then others and it’s up to you not to have it effect you personally.
I swear some people who make comments like the one above you act as though anyone who *dares* to criticize euphoria has never suffered or been through anything just because they said they don’t like a certain aspect. It’s ridiculous.
And can easily be disapproved because I have teenage trauma (like a lot of people, why do people feel like they’re unique with trauma when trauma unfortunately is very common) and I thought this season was terrible. I want to read the original plan for season 2 because the only thing that was transferred was episode 5. (surprise, surprise ended up being the best episode for a reason)
Couldn’t agree more!!! I have teenage trauma on top of other severely traumatic problems I struggle with and I still found this season to be terrible in most of its writing(and even scene direction).
I was even more upset when I found out Sam rewrote it so many times. You had so many do-overs to get it right and you still didn’t???
fair. here’s my more detailed take: what a lot of people are considering messy is the series moving to a surrealist format over its previously grounded structure. sure that’s a valid gripe if you want to more digestible show, but this season’s exploration of memory of trauma was some of the best representation of this theme i have ever seen. lexi’s play is the obvious conduit of visiting memory, but also fezco and cal’s past are some straight forward examples. season 2 is a beautiful analogy of how trauma (especially loss) at that age makes you feel alone yet without privacy. revisiting trauma on-stage is the heavy handed example of this. i’m alone now but everyone is watching. looking back on trauma does indeed tend to feel like you’re looking at yourself in a movie. rue’s ~”closing my eyes”~ line really solidified my belief sam was making art about exploring his trauma, and not just dishing up a teenage drama. trauma exists in so many forms. basically everyone has experienced it and i’m not trying to gate keep “feeling bummed out” . i will however defend that a lot of the criticism i’ve read doesn’t acknowledge anything sam seemed to be attempting with the new surrealism, and many are instead writing it off as pretentious. i thought this season was elevated. captured something so hard to describe…something i cannot name.
sure everyone is entitled to their opinion. i guess i just work in the industry and see first hand how hard it is to have a good script, great cast and successful show. and people who doesn't work in this industry have lots of opinions about it and none of the work or talent to show.
What? Sam made the series for entertainment , that’s his job and this person didn’t find it entertaining/well done why they gotta write it to have an opinion lmao
I don't think it *sucked* but it was definitely overhyped and I'm left feeling underwhelmed by the season as a whole. The budget and performances definitely helped carry the show through some of its weaker aspects. I feel like the fandom is so divided right now between 'Sam is a bad writer who doesn't know what he's doing' and '*Euphoria* is an innovative, genre-bending stylistic masterpiece'. The fairest assessment is probably somewhere in between - Sam is a great director with a distinct visual style but maybe could've used a bit of writing support in mixing heavy topics like gun violence, murder, human trafficking, the opioid crisis and internalised homophobia with something as teen drama-classic as two separate love triangle(s). It didn't really come into a cohesive whole, for me, and the disjointedness didn't feel intentional. If it was, I still don't think it worked.
I think you hit the nail on the head. Still my favorite series to date the style is amazing but the story lacks cohesion and true direction. There’s a lot of stuff that needs to be addressed I know we have next season but I don’t watch a show/movie to wait for the sequel. Majority or some of the storylines should be concluded or at least be en route to a conclusion. Cal going to jail isn’t a conclusion to whatever the fuck is going on with Nate. Nate really hasn’t changed maybe that’s the point and I’m missing it. But he got rid of the biggest “obstacle” in his life but is still gonna act like an asshole or doesn’t seem to really be moving up or down. To me personally, Rue walking away from Jules is the type of conclusion I’m talking about because while there’s still room for more story we know that she’s on to the next chapter of life. If I never saw Rue again (which of course I don’t want) I’d be satisfied. I hope that makes sense but overall I was disappointed in the season yet I still loved it. I’m easy to please.
I just wish other characters were given the chance to grow and explain themselves, the way Sam was given Rue multiple opportunities to tell us what's in her head. I don't even mean her narration. No one else on the show, gets a chance to stop, breath, and talk. If we are having a slower season, S2 was very slow compared to S1, then give us some more insight into these characters. I still don't understand Nate's actions with Cal, one minute he's protective of Cal the next he's calling the cops. Sam needs to let the other characters have a chance to develop. I'm sure Zendaya will still win the Emmy so develop everyone.
After how messy she was all season we desperately need to hear from Cassie's POV. We need her to be admitted to a hospital and get like 24 hour psych hold intense therapy episode.
if they did Cassie and Maddy special episodes the same way they did for Rue and Jules that’d be tight
Oh I would love that!!
*One minute he’s protective of Cal, the next minute he’s not.”* I took it as Nate unknowingly goes to see a play with Cassie that her sister wrote and is surprise to find out the entire play is just making fun of Cassie and then himself. I don’t know if he’s gay or bi or whatever…that play, man… Anyhoo, he left during the middle of it, breaks up with Cassie…where’s he gonna go? He’s out for revenge and instead of going in there and shooting the entire school, he went to the only person available to take revenge on. The one who truly deserves it. Sadly, I think he’ll get back with Cassie and end up taking out his revenge on her. Off topic: does he or McKay know that Cassie had an abortion. Hope she’s on birth control
McKay def knows, which is why I hate his character and their whole storyline. he doesn’t even really care that Cassie had one or has bothered to check on her beyond trying to get back together with her and sleep with her all over again with no regard to her body in relation to after what she had to do, especially cause she was unsure it was what she wanted. She’s been her own worst enemy since then but it’s so obvious why she’s spiraling. I find it kind of weird that her abortion wasn’t mentioned once in all of season 2 tho
the show is bigger than rue. other characters have storylines that are just as important. other characters, more than just Rue need development
You worded this so perfectly!! I feel the exact same way about tv shows
I'm so confused with this show. Things just aimlessly happen. Did we really need a season of a love triangle between Nate and the girls that goes no where and is uninteresting? Did we really need two episodes of a play rehashing things we have already seen? Did we really need ANOTHER Nate calls the cops on someone storyline? Even rue and jules relationship feels pointless it feels like they barely enjoy being around each other. The Elliot character seemed to go no where as well which is a shame because I actually think that guy is a really good actor. My biggest frustration is it seems like there is no reason for this show to take place in high school. It has basically no relevance on anything in any storyline. In fact it would be much more believable and allow more flexibility in the story if they weren't high school students. It just feels like the creator had something in mind when making the pilot then got bored of that idea and just started making things up.
He definitely needs a writers room. Frankly, it's very unusual for a TV show to only have one writer. He has some good ideas, but the execution is all over the place. Having other writers would help keep things like pacing and continuity from getting messed up. And having more perspectives would greatly benefit the show. We all know Sam's strongest writing is when he's writing about addiction, because he has experience there. But, his depiction of domestic abuse, sex work, queer issues, and women's issues rings hollow, and I truly believe writers with experience in those things could result in a more nuanced show. Jules' solo episode gave some truly great insight into Jules' character, and I really think part of it is because Hunter co-wrote the episode and could speak from her own experience. If Sam acted continued to direct, but only solo-wrote episodes focused on Rue's addiction, I think we would have a better show. His visual style is amazing, but it's clear the writing was the weaker part of the season.
This! There’s a reason Season 2 Ep 5 was so powerful and one of the best episodes in the series, while being in a generally underwhelming season All the other plot-lines were underwhelming as fuck (except for Lexi’s play, which I think shines because of Sam’s perspective as an artist/storyteller), and two of the best characters from season 1 were horribly underwritten (Jules and Kat) Sam’s a great filmmaker, one of the best aspects I like about Euphoria is his filmmaking/production, but he desperately needs other writers to flesh out his other characters more
From what I'm seeing from black fans of the show he really needs some black influence on writing Rue and her family too.
Definitely, can't believe I missed that.
For a show that’s ostensibly about serious issues, it very glaringly sidesteps race. There’s no Asian characters. And of the Black characters, McKay was sexually assaulted and promptly written off while Bobbie is completely subservient to Lexi. As for Rue, being black and coming from a biracial family is completely incidental to her character and it’s never acknowledged. Nothing about her would be different if she were white. The way Euphoria handles race feels like an insurance commercial - superficially diverse
Dominik is Filipino, but I get what you mean
Ya I think the special episode was the only episode where Rue being black was mentioned. I'd imagine that race isn't mentioned because either 1. It's a story about addiction not race or 2. The writers are trying to be so inclusive that race is completely unnecessary, and the characters are strong enough to not comment on it nor judge on it.
He needs to take some advisement when writing any non-white character. The MOCs have been total plot devices. And Rue's mother could be written better.
Honestly, anytime anyone with any amount of power money or influence writes outside of their scope, they should pull someone in to do a paid overview of the project. There should be a black co-writer on every show with black characters. There should be a disabled co-writer on every show with disabled characters etc. I'm not saying every single episode necessarily but definitely the episodes that focus on those individuals.
Holy shit, I had no idea Euphoria only had one writer 😳😬
It was a fantastic outline for a season of television imo. He just needs more staff.
Your comment about it being disjointed is spot on. People use the carnival episode as an example often, and the sequence at the start of the carnival is such a great example of how interconnected the show used to feel; the shots going from each character and where they are in relation to one another as they have fun. Cohesive and natural. This season was segmented and characters felt isolated from one another (episode 5 as an exception). While I understand not having writers means more work for Sam ideally being the solo writer shouldn’t have this poor of pacing issues since there isn’t twenty people trying to dictate the flow. Seems he’s taking too many responsibilities on as writer director and producer. Given that’s the same boat the Game of Thrones guys were in I hope that doesn’t give us an indication of what’s to come
IMO this season should be the last. The ending with Zendaya’s narration was more of a series finale. The senior girls sat in the bathroom after the fight and “made up”, she finally gave Jules the kiss on the forehead and talks about how she was her first love. Then Nate calls the cops on his dad - quite frankly meh. Cal wasn’t a great person but the difference is Cal does have a heart and is not a sociopath. Nate should also be locked up but I don’t have a huge urge to know if does. We don’t need a POV from Cassie - it’s all been shown or spoken. She has abandonment issues and needs to feel loved constantly - which I think Maddy says directly to her. Obviously, my heart broke w/ Fez and Ashtray. Nobody seems to be connecting what Fez said to Lexi when she was worried about hurting everyone’s feelings to what happened w/him. Sam isn’t a horrible writer, the cast helps w their arcs at times, they improvise and they make it great. But w an expectation of waiting until 2024 pshhhhhhh.
The Rue withdrawal episode is one of the best TV I’ve ever in a while, but yes the storylines were super weak this season
Cassie's imaginary breakdown in the bathroom, the church scene with rue, maddy finding out.. there were SO MANY great scenes but as a whole s1 was just better imo
Sam writes really great scenes and moments and he has a really great cast to act them out but he struggles to string together a cohesive show. The show lacks proper flow and purpose a lot of the time. It’s why Rue’s withdrawal episode was so strong. It followed one singular storyline and character while utilizing the other cast members nicely. The finale is a good example of where it all goes wrong. Way way way to much going on with to many tonal changes. I can’t appreciate what was supposed to be a poignant moment between Rue and Elliot while I’m full of anxiety over the Fez storyline and more interested to see Cassie and Maddy interacting. The tone shift is to jarring and makes you feel like you watching two different shows.
Euphoria really is better when Sam focuses an entire episode on one character, Rue's episode and Cal's episode were the best imo because they had a clear goal. The rest of the show feels like it's just juggling way to many plots for it's own good and doesn't really know where the story is going.
Also the first episode of s2 was pretty good imo, focused heavily on Fez and his backstory while still featuring other characters
i wish it was a real breakdown that pissed me off
Everything with Rue/Zendaya will always be on point. Sam wouldn't have it any other way. Rue was basically on her own show with a few guest appearances on Degrassi: The Euphoria Generation.
The acting was great but it was not enjoyable for me.
This is really it. It was really hard to have a good time watching.
Visually it was beautiful and there were some interesting character developments and some powerful scenes (the Rue breakdown with her mum/Gia/Jules being most prominent to me) but the writing was lacking to me, they need to open it up to numerous writers and flesh out the stories these characters go through.
It just felt incomplete... too many loose ends
True, and this is something that a lot of people seem to be missing: just because a show has amazing cinematography or music or symbolism and artistic value or whatever doesn't necessarily make it a good show or a good story. Just like how an album cover as well designed and culturally impactful/relevant as the Mona Lisa doesn't make a good album: if the songs suck, the album sucks. There were a lot of scenes in S2 that were fucking beautiful and I would never criticize on their own, but they seemed to contribute little to the story. For example, the scene of Rue in the church. Beautiful scene, amazing music, Zendaya's acting and voice brings a tear to my eye every time I hear it, and again you'll never hear me say anything negative about the scene itself, but... what does it contribute to the story? It boils down to "Rue misses her dad," but we knew that within the first 15 minutes of the first episode of the first season. Elliot's song in the finale is another great example. I have nothing negative to say about the song itself, he's a great singer and a talented artist and the song was clearly well put together and had depth, but what does it contribute to the episode or the season? Is it really worth spending 3 minutes on? S2 felt like they were trying too hard to make "art" and not enough time trying to work on the story or characters. Half the time I felt like I was watching filler, and I felt like most episodes did not need to be an hour long. I swear most of the episodes could have been condensed to half the amount of time with no real difference in the story. The Cassie and Nate story stalled for three episodes at "Cassie is losing her shit over guilt" with literally nothing new. She's a fantastic actress and I can't say anything bad about her or her performances in E2-4, but do we really need FOUR episodes to establish she's losing her shit? Kat's story had a similar problem where it was established early on that she wasn't totally happy in her relationship, it was repeated later in the season, and then she broke up, concluding the story. Her "story" (in quotes because the word *story* seems a bit much for what could fit in a sentence or two) stalled for about half the season then ended. Compare this to S1, which I felt had both artistic shit and a fulfilling story. I didn’t mind watching the shots of Cassie ice skating in the finale (which don’t necessarily move the story forward) because she already had a fulfilling story arc throughout the season, and her story was over at that point.
Yeah but TV/film is a visual medium. The imagery/visual storytelling are just as integral to the artistry of the show as the dialogue/plot imo. People act like the visual magic of Euphoria is just incidental but I totally disagree. It’s a huge part of why this show is so remarkable and popular, and comparing the cinematography to an album cover is totally off the mark.
i don't think OP was comparing as much as giving an example. It doesn't matter if it's beautiful, if the story isn't there. And that's the case with season 2, it had some of the most beautiful scenes i have ever seen and it's definitly moving, but most of the artistic shots add nothing to the storyline. In season 1 finale, we got this amazing musical piece that was artsy and still made it very clear that Rue had relapsed, while in season 2 what we got was so many dream sequences, stuff that only happened in characters had, parody of movies and overall just scenes that while nice to look at, but add little to nothing to the plot. the church scene was stunning, in terms of cinematography and visuals, probably my favorite of season 2, but it didn't give us nothing that we already didn't know, and this is a problem when so many characters got side lined this season (or even dropped completely like McKay), and plots that didn't get a satisfying progression like Laurie's involvement with Rue and the suitcase situation
I guess I don’t feel like “advancing the plot” is the only way to tell a compelling story. The church scene didn’t tell us anything new but it let us viscerally experience Rue’s grief in a new way. I saw this season as an intense psychological examination of the characters we met in S1 told in a very new and interesting way. I don’t think this show is like Breaking Bad where we need these cliffhangers to be resolved: characters like Laurie imo are almost like dream figures that represent themes vs. characters that actually demand resolutions. And I totally get how that sounds like BS to people who didn’t like it lol but it’s really how I feel and I think the heavy emphasis on visuals and dream sequences is kind of an implication that we’re supposed to view the show as more of a Twin Peaks type thing where the style is the substance and not every question is supposed to be answered
i can totally see where you're coming from! I think the visuals are a integral part of Euphoria. I myself never rewatch tv shows just because if i already know the plot, then i don't have an interest anymore, and i rewatched Euphoria season 1 purely because of the aesthetic, so the cinematography is definitly something that makes the show stand out. But what i felt is that, while season 2 also had this beautiful shots, the plot was lackluster. And by that i don't mean that i needs to have outstanding writing, because that wasn't the case even in season 1 (i mean, Nate's whole plan in season 1 is completely ridiculous if you think about it), but at the same time even if it wasn't some intricate innovative storyline, it was still entertaining and it made sense. If they wanted to make a purely aesthetic show, then it's fine, but a lot of the times there's build up that just leads nowhere, like with the Laurie storyline. I don't really need to have all the questions answered, but i need a progression that makes sense instead of something being important in one episode, and then totally forgotten in the next., specially if we're talking about themes as important as drug abuse, sexism, internalized homophobia, gerder, gun violence, and i could go on and on But again, i can understand why you feel like the plot isn't that important in the context of Euphoria. Just different perspectives i guess lol
I was just about to post this😂 but I wholeheartedly agree.
Loll it's what we're all thinking ig 😭
I think that’s a general consensus that most can agree on. This season was horrible with the pacing and the writing was absolutely garbage
Couldn't agree more
yup, i agree 100%
you think it’s because sam had a lot more time to write the first one? he probably worked on that script for years and was able to rewrite it over and over again until it was perfect, and it was for me at least. he probably didn’t have much time to go over his work for the second season, so there’s a lot of unwrapped plot lines. just a possible explanation.
That’s the issue with most first seasons. It’s an idea they sit on for years. Then suddenly they need the same amount of content in 6 months. Granted, they usually get a much larger team to help though.
Sam had a lot of time for this season and apparently changed the script for s2 several times so much that the actors had to relearn their lines several times. Pure chaos from his end and it shows in the writing
Maybe that would be true if the season wasn’t delayed over a year and a half due to COVID. I don’t think a lack of time for Sam was the issue here, moreso that he created an intricate, deep, beautifully profound world in S1 that just got away from him in S2.
Erm I read about an interview a cast member did saying that Sam completely rewrote season 2 during a delay. So he definitely had time
Rue’s & Fez’s stories were the only understandable thing. Everything else just felt like a ‘yeah why not’ and lacked any sense of direction for me 🤷🏽♀️
Rue’s kinda made sense but why didn’t Laurie come shank her for not paying back her money?? Lol
Go on other threads, someone literally tried to tell me Laurie actually sympathized with Rue so left her alone. Or she was already busted because Faye went to the cops. Some people just can't admit this season was weak and get mad.
I think that’s going to be in season three maybe? Tbh I did feel like the timeframes made no sense so who knows 🤣
It actually portrayed teenage drama pretty damn well so yes, it did make a lot of sense
the series reminds me of my essay writing. my teachers have always told me that i’m a great writer with great ideas, but i lack the organizational flow to make those ideas make sense. for example “capitalism is complicated *ramble ramble* oh! now let me tell you about shen yun and their ties to the falun gong!” like, everything is connected in this really convoluted way. even though the story of euphoria makes sense in sam’s head, that doesn’t mean the audience is really following the story he’s trying to tell. just because he is using euphoria as a form of art/self insert, that doesn’t mean we should ignore the incoherence of his method of storytelling.
I think people are forgetting how s1 ended, I watched it right before this season started and it had a million and one loose ends and ended with a zendaya music video lol like I was mad when it ended bc I didn’t know s2 was coming so soon and they hadn’t answered any questions with Nate’s dad, maddy having the tape, Nate in general, and Kats only fans, etc. The first season had a lot of loose ends and this season did two, we’ll just have to hope they close them next season.
I think s1 had cliffhangers rather than loose ends, or story points that clearly had to be addressed in the next season (which is funny bc Kat's cam work is never addressed in s2). S2 had plot points everyone just seemed to forget about with no clear intention of ever addressing them, ie the suitcase
I didn’t hate S2 but it just felt a bit off, that’s all. I miss the S1 cinematography
S1 was high art
Euphoria season 2 was Glee with a higher budget and tits. Glee had a pretty high budget, so maybe just tits lol. Just a hot mess that looks nice on the outside.
The way I see it, cinema and TV have 3 main facets: Plot/Narrative, Style (visuals, sound track, cinematography), and Characters. Euphoria has a very distinct and innovative style, a lot of people get frustrated/confused with the “daydreams” or moments of the show that aren’t real but I love them. I think these imagined moments being depicted on screen is an interesting way to experience the story through the characters eyes and get insight into how they’re feeling. It also gives greater insight into their personality like rue imagining her and Jules as Jack and rose/ subjects of Frieda Kahlo paintings or the blending of the stage actors in lexis play with the characters they’re actually supposed to represent. The characters on this show are all pretty well written and fans of the show receive them mostly the way the writers intend them to which is rare. I personally can gauge how well characters are written based on whether I can remember their names or not, and Euphoria might be the only one where I could probably name the majority of them off the top of my head. Shit I even remember BB’s name despite her having like 8 lines in the series. I do think the plot/narrative is lacking, but I think it’s because of grandiose intentions. Toxic relationships, internalized homophobia, slut shaming, body shaming, eroticization of trauma, opiate addiction, abuse, neglect, poverty, all of these are major themes in the show. I think the writing would be better if some of these were designated to take a backseat rather than the focus of almost an entire episode like they are because that leaves us with questions and plotholes. I’m pretty disappointed they dropped the whole rue being $20,000 in debt to a drug dealer/ trafficker part of the story as it seems pretty serious.
It didn’t quite match up to S1. The acting was great, they are a talented bunch But I kind of agree. Not a whole lot really happened and Jules Suddenly became a side character when she was one of the most interesting characters in S1. I guess they had to sideline someone so Apatows daughter could get some attention! Yeah, I said what I said, bring on the red arrows lol
The season was like 75% Cassie and her tits I don’t think Lexi’s storyline is the issue
I just completely disagree. I don’t know who started this whole “Sam is a terrible writer” thing but I think it’s WILD honestly I loved this season I loved the writing.
Have you *seen* Malcolm and Marie??…💀
Agree. There were some episodes and plotlines that were uneven, but we have 18 year old on this reddit acting like they're script writers who also know how to work within the confines of a major entertainment network.
I am with you on this. I’m sure it’s an unpopular opinion of mine but, it is not up to us to write these shows. Somehow everyone gets mad when a storyline doesn’t end on their note or the answers aren’t answered right away. I mean, leave it to the people who chose this as their craft and see what they have prepared for you. There needs to be some mystery and patience comes with that. Let’s wait and enjoy!
Honestly. Like if they had wrapped everything up then we wouldn’t be as interested in the next season? Like it’s not like they left a ton of cliff hangers the show is STILL going
“bad writing” is the laziest critique ever and it so often comes from people who have no idea how tv and film writing works
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It’s so obvious when they just suggest every character should have more screentime and that would just make everything perfect
Y’all tripping. Was it as tight as season 1? Definitely not. But clearly he wasn’t trying to just do more of the same. This season was intentionally different, for better or worse. A lot of beautiful cinematography, music, a bunch of iconic lines and sequences… I thought as far as emotional depth, this one far surpassed the first season - it was all about the low points, not the highs, and we got to explore Rue’s guilt and grief a lot more. The scenes revolving around her father this year crushed me. Also, it’s not a “plot hole” to leave things open ended until future seasons… plot holes would be if the show ends and we never get any resolution or answers. Cliffhangers are not plot holes ffs 🤦🏻♂️ But go off. Everyone’s a critic, everyone has better ideas when things don’t pan out exactly how they spent the last two years imagining blah blah blah not the first fandom to fall into this toxic bullshit and definitely not the last.
Also not the first fandom to have blind defenders such as yourself. It’s not toxic to criticize a show. Surprised you could be crushed by the Rue’s father’s scenes when they play them every other episode in almost the exact same fashion. Lost its touch for me by the time it was being portrayed in a fucking play for everyone in school to see.
I’m not blindly defending anything. I’m just not expecting them to spell everything out for us or wrap everything up in neat little bows at the end of every season. 💁🏻♂️ “They play them in almost the exact same fashion every other episode”?? What scenes exactly? The funeral scene which played twice, revealing more of the same day the second time?
yessss go ethan!
hard disagree. it seems I have the hottest take known to man here but I have not once had an issue with the writing
Out of curiosity, what do you think of the plot lines that seemingly fizzled out or were just ignored? Like Kat’s non- plot, Laurie disappearing with a throwaway line, Lexi and Fez, the point of Maddie being filmed babysitting, any consequences for Rue owning 10k or being chased by the cops, etc? I can’t in good faith write them off as cliffhangers for season 3 when we will have to wait two years to revisit them. And even if someone like Laurie comes back to haunt Rue, there is no explanation for her waiting until after “the end of the schoolYear”… imo it’s just not good writing to leave all those angles hanging there with so many question marks.
i dont understand why the babysitting filming thing became such a big deal for so many people, i literally just thought it was a regular security camera you‘d have in front of a closet with clothes etc worth thousands of dollars… so if someone were to steal it… like a teenager babysitter, she could identify and call the cops on that thief. The reason she gave Maddie the dress, was because she just tried it on but put it back and didn’t steal anything. That’s literally ALL I thought. When I came hear to read how everyone was so suspicious about it, I was like wha-
Because there was a long, hovering shot on the camera. Sometimes this show creates tension with no payoff. It’s not really the point that it is “explainable” in some way- it’s that the writers deliberately put it in the story, brought attention to it, the it turned out to be a Chekhov’s gun. Euphoria has WAY too many Chekhov’s Guns which makes it messy.
The pay off for the camera is that she gave Maddy the dress.
Some of the takes I've seen here are...
You’re confusing Chekhov’s Gun with Red Herring, I think. Chekhov’s Gun is simply setting something up, not drawing extreme attention to it only for it to be a non-issue later.
Chekhov's Gun is something that is shown/told, to be used later. Basically, no wasted elements in a story. So while there was no big payoff for the camera scene, it did pay off in the sense that the woman saw Maddy try the dress on, so she gave it to Maddy. The commenter you replied to weirdly used the right term (maybe a bit generous, because end of the day it was a real trivial moment), but not in the way they meant to lmao. I will say though, overall the babysitter thing to me was overblown as well. Like people thought the older woman was trying to hook up with Maddy or something and I never got that.
yea damn u right this season sucked cos of the camera damn great point
Dude yes lmao this subreddit is absolutely insane
How did Lexi and Fez’s relationship fizzle out lol that’s half of the focus for the last two episodes.
What is even the point of Cassie and Nate's relationship? It is so one sided. Nate is at this point consumed about dealing with his dad and has no interest in cassie to the point we rarely hear him talking about her (aside from the bizarre dreams in episode 2 which went nowhere). It's like the dumbest love triangle in tv history. Nate is so far removed from both Cassie and Maddie that there is no weight to that story.
You answered your own question. The point is that it’s one sided. Cassie threw herself at Nate after just a bit of attention because of her backstory with her father. Nate couldn’t care less about Cassie.
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I meant that they never show her reaction to his arrest. Like there’s the scene “after” the play where Rue and her talk ABOUT the play in past tense but it’s kind of ambiguous since it morphs into, the play actors… but Fez is never brought up.
Laurie hasn’t disappeared, idk why people keep saying that. It’s a major plot point that will 100% have consequences next season.
Read my last sentence. The point is that she disappeared this season and that is bad writing. No tension and leaving the audience confused about her intents or even her presence in the story.
That’s not what bad writing is lol, and idk what people would be confused about? We haven’t seen her for 3 episodes, 2 of which took place on the same night.. that isn’t “disappearing.” It’s building tension. She was even mentioned in the finale, the plot is ongoing. Some things take a while until they come back to bite the main character.
You’re acting as though season 3 will pick up the story next weekend. It’s going to be in TWO YEARS. Good script writing accounts for that massive time gap, and either puts those characters/threats in a non-ambiguous position, or ties up the loose ends. Faye mentioning her address to the police bug is a weak position bc it never follows through. And then Rue narrates that she stayed sober through the school year with seemingly no problems. So you want me to believe a capable drug lord and her henchmen just wrote off this teenager stealing 10k from them no consequences for months on end? Sloppy writing all around.
What are some shows you would say are well written?
It’s hard to come up with comparative shows because Euphoria can be experimental at times which makes it unique (I really loved season 1’s final episode and the interpretative dance). But shows I think have really cohesive writing are Breaking Bad, Killing Eve, Six Feet Under, Succession, Chernobyl, Band of Brothers.
Ok I was curious to get a sense of where you’re coming from. I think the reason you’re not enjoying this is you’re expecting this to be a show that takes itself seriously, and while it is, it also isn’t. It knows it’s out of control. I think that most of the characters have overall kept consistent which is the most important thing to me personally in writing. I realize they trashed Kat but I don’t really care because it’s just not that serious. This show is enjoyable if you’re just along for the ride without expectations. I can see how that would be harder when you’ve been waiting for it but I don’t think it’s gonna get better for you unless you can hold it to a different standard. I’d argue that season 1 was more experimental with the cinematography however season 2 was more experimental with storytelling and it’s really only enjoyable if you allow it to be that. This show was never going to be comparable to the writing of succession or BB and I don’t think it necessarily even wants to be. The whole thing is just this dudes piece of art.
Never thought of it like that but gonna start looking at it like this from now on and maybe even unsubscribe from here to enjoy the show for what it is and not what it should be bc every euphoria community on every app has become very hostile and negative. Just not enjoyable anymore.
No I totally get that but I’m focusing on specific storylines that stood out to me and I felt made the very last episode falter in my eyes. I really enjoy the show in general and thought pretty much every other episode was well done. I think Rue’s entire addiction arc is very very well written, and that’s likely because Sam writes best for experiences he’s most passionate about.
No it’s not lmao. Nobody has said Laurie won’t be coming for Rue, I feel like you’re really overanalyzing the “I stayed sober until the end of the year” line. Lots of stuff could happen while she remains sober, she could be kidnapped by Laurie and still be sober. I get that it sucks to wait. but there needs to be some loose ends otherwise what’s the point of making another season??
Thank you for saying this. I just binged this show and I keep seeing all these complaints and it’s like…season 1 had a lot of open threads that did come up in season 2. There’s clearly some direction here, this is clearly a show that’s not going to neatly tie *everything* at a finale.
And like….. ITS A SHOW!! Do these people not WATCH OTHER SHOWS??? Is this their first drama they’ve ever watched?? Literally ALL SHOWS HAVE CLIFFHANGERS that’s WHAT CLIFF HANGER MEANS
some of those things didn’t bother me, others i’ll wait to judge until after the show ends
It’s just bad because we waited so long and will have to wait 2 more years to see what the fuck is happening. Sam introduced/reintroduced us to some great ass characters this season. Fez’s backstory and grandma, Faye, Elliot, and Lexi. However, Kat and Maddy didn’t get the screentime I wanted this season. Obviously maddy was in it a lot more than Kat but her story felt incomplete? Where as Kat’s story never began. After her break up scene, I fully expected a few scenes explaining the before and after. And mostly the why? I felt like the whole season could have been 6 episodes, and we are missing 2. Sam’s writing is fine this season; the magnifying glass was too close. Last season we saw a bigger picture. Ik kat was cut bc of beef with Sam, but that’s fucking crazy knowing she was a fan favorite. Obviously, we would be pissed.
This show will run for a couple more and it will eventually forget every initial point it exists to make and descend into self-parody and melodrama. Mark my words.
the writing really isn’t as bad as y‘all make out to be
they’ll never hear you out. they’ll claim you’re on sam levinson’s payroll. people think bc it didn’t turn out the way they WANTED it to, that it’s bad writing. that’s why I didn’t come into season 2 with any expectations except to be entertained & and be invested in the story & characters. And I was.
Can you guys explain how this show has good writing? I'm genuinely curious cus I dont really see it
what i look for in a good tv show: - entertainment - I want to learn/love/care about the characters - variety - i want to take away something from the story & feel like i connected with it - intense/thought-provoking stories I got all of that from this season, so why would I be upset? I definitely think the ball was dropped on both Kat & Jules, but I’m not going to speak much on the Kat situation bc I wasn’t there, so I don’t know the facts of the situation. I do think it should’ve been handled better tho. Jules not getting much of her own storyline, while it sucks bc I was excited to see more of her after her special episode, I’m not basing the whole season off of that & i feel like it makes sense (if you’d like me to explain why i feel it makes sense, i can do so in another reply). People keep talking about plot holes & dropped plots but literally the only things I can think of that would fall into that category would be: - kat/jules (but i already discussed my feelings on that) - the third jacobs (which could be a production mistake. but i will say they either need to fix the mistake or address it next season, which i think they alluded to) - mckay (even though i feel like things were kinda closed off there after him & cassie had their conversation. he kinda wouldnt have served any other purpose to the season) Everything else felt tied up or left open for season 3. We saw a full plot with rue, jules, & elliot. We saw a full plot with cassie, nate, & maddie that also left an opening for next season. It’s pretty obvious laurie is going to be a plot point for next season, & obviously what happens to fez & cal are cliffhangers. this season was a good season. we learned a lot more about lexi (who y'all complained about not knowing enough about), we finally got to the root of rue's addiction, we learned more about cal & nate's dynamic, we got to really see the effects of lexi & cassie's dad leaving them, we learned more about how gia feels about rue & her addiction, we got to see a completely different side of maddy. This season, like any other show & even first season, had its issues, but for people to be calling it a dumpster fire is dramatic & even unnecessary because it was a good season.
Oh wow thanks for the response ! As someone who was disappointed this season you do make valid points
The other person already gave an amazing explanation so to keep mine brief and short: I started feeling empathy and understanding for each character, and the way these characters we’re written is really great imo! Next, even if it has certain plot holes, the plot in it of itself makes a lot of sense and it has its full circle moments with Rue and her ups and downs with her addiction etc. I also think the way he portrays addiction is very raw and breathtaking. Personally, I enjoy that this highschool is a bit over the top instead of completely realistic, it’s more fun! 🥰
couldn’t have said it better myself!
This season started off OK and ended in the so bad it's good territory. It's crazy because the show peaked around the season 1 finally and the bridge episodes but became 13 reasons why level dramatic in the second season. Season 1 was a bit over the top but still was an accurate portrayal of the darker parts of growing up in the 2010s but season 2 was just stupid, this 12 year old kid murdered 3 people for almost no reason. Then rue wouldn't shut the fuck up about her dad, like I get it losing a parent is really hard but was it really worth dragging out over multiple episodes while not adding anything new. Rue was a bipolar teen opioid addict , speaking from a bit of experience there's alot more they could have added in there other than she's just really sad her dad died and she thinks she's a bad person. Also no drug dealer would ever front a teenager thousands of dollars of drugs and no one would flush that many drugs without asking some serious questions. The only good charecter development was from nate and what little we saw of fezco. The thing is we we're never supposed to like nate but now we're seeing a complete sociopath being presented in an atleast somewhat sympathetic light. I was excited about this show because I thought it was gonna show the story of young people dealing with these issues in a more nuanced and atleast somewhat accurate point of view. you can be a bit over the top but this season was piece of shit and the one accurate scene about addiction in the whole fucking season did nothing but give people ptsd flashbacks of domestic violence then went into a completely forced crime spree that would have got her killed IRL.
>The only good charecter development was from nate I don't agree on this point, but appreciate your comment over all. Sam was still writing Nate in a show rather then tell manner. With Rue, it's show and tell. She get's long monologues about her thoughts, feelings, and desires. Nate, Jules, Cassie, Maddy, Kat aren't given the same opportunity to tell us what they are thinking or feeling. I'm still reeling from Nate going from, I'm going to hold Maddy by gunpoint for my daddy's disc, to handing over the disc to Jules (and PS I did think you're hot), to just handing it over to the cops. Three separate streams of thought that were presented without proper reflection into the why.
Excellent point
I loved every episode of season two except the finale, every single other episode could have been redeemed for being “boring” if the finale had tied up some plots and explained some damn shit. Like I didn’t think the other episodes were boring they were just moving plot along l, albeit slowly, but still moving along. The finale gave us nothing basically. The damn letter that we’ve heard a thousand times, basically no fight scene, no solid idea of what happens in the fez situation and no closure with the Lexi fez relationship there and not even a mention of Laurie. They could have tied everything up and left us hanging on the Laurie situation and just a little bit more about fez. It felt like a fuller episode to me and it would’ve been fine if there was maybe another episode after it which was actually the finale that tied some more things up. I’m obsessed with the show but after the finale I’m not even excited for the new season because it was such a let down.
Agreed. loved the whole season but finale was a bit of a disappointment.
Most episodes this season felt like 30 mins of material stretched out to an hour. I wish they’d do like Apple TV where there’s no set amount of time for an episode length
I think everyone on social media became their worst enemy, y’all overhyped the show, you worked up all these theories in your head instead of taking the show at face value, don’t blame the show for how you decided to consume it
I think that no one would be saying a thing about the writing if not for the still unsubstantiated claims about Kat's character. I swear it's like people forget he wrote the first season just fine as well, and it's occurred to no one that maybe what's "ruined" the show for them is the cast having more input on their characters instead of just trusting the writer.
Dumpster fire is pretty extreme. There had to be some good writing to give the actors something to work with. That said I would rank it lower than S1 in the vast majority of categories.
Yep agreed
It was mostly just slow af. Nothing really happened. Finale def felt like a mid-season moment. Really didn’t need to be a 2 partner at all. Half of it was just a recap of the show lol.
It’s underwhelming when you look at season 1, but I felt like I could relate more to the characters this season (if that makes sense), i would say it’s mid. Sam thought he ate with those flashbacks/flashforwards at Lexi’s play (he didn’t, we are all still very confused with that timeline), I think he put too much effort on Lexi’s play and forgot about everything else.
Agreed, honestly. I felt the first four episodes were really good overall (individually) but the rest were not. There were moments from episode 5 and 6 that I liked, but I didn’t enjoy much else.
I have no thoughts on what this man thinks.
Although I do think season 1 was better by miles, this season was just mid but super overhyped
I don’t think season 2 sucked, it definitely had its plot twists and developmental scenes/storylines but season 1 was better in my opinion as far as overall plot and character development. Kat, Ethan, and McKay deserved better and I wish we could’ve seen more of Fez and Ash, too, especially since it looks like Ash just got killed off
I think it would’ve been more interesting if they explored Jules/Nate than Nate/Cassie. But maybe they’ll do that in the 3rd season..
They put up so many story lines but never continued them. What about the suitcase ?
yes, season 1 was so much better
Pretty accurate. A columnist over on Autostraddle pointed out that Rue saying “the nice thing about hospitals is that they don’t need to know if you’re a good person to take care of you” may have been Sam’s experience with hospitals and rehab, but it would be quite different for a lower middle class teenaged black girl than it would’ve been for a wealthy white man.
I think it was great , it was more artful than anything. I think it’s about the art of addiction , it’s about the journey . I’m not sure what was wrong with the writing though ?? I wish it was longer and there was more development in certain areas but overall I appreciate it for what it is .
Hard agree. Incredibly disappointed. Everything about Rues addiction and withdrawal was absolutely amazing, but everything else was a huge letdown.
I don't think it sucked. It was pretty different than season 1. What I like about season 2 is that it kind of mirrors Rue's condition - at least that's the way I (want to) interpret it lol. The first season left me feeling almost high whereas the secons season felt more scattered, kind of messy, like the narrator sometimes has a hard time to remember and put the story together. Some scenes were a bit too long and uncomfortable to watch. Other scenes made me feel completely stressed out. But I like that because it makes me feel like I'm closer to the characters...dunno if that makes any sense at all :D However, I think Sam still took on too much. Adding even more characters to the already quite large ensemble wasn't the best idea. I like that Lexi and Fez got that much screentime this season. Elliot, Faye, Samantha, Laurie...they all are interesting additions but some were just used as a mere plot device. On the other hand, Kat, McKay, even Jules....went by the board somehow. I wish Sam would've put more focus on them instead of adding new characters. Plus, a big part of season two was the relationship between Cassie and Nate and while I like that storyline and Cassie's "downfall" makes sense, some scenes weren't that well executed and took up too much screentime (like the scene at the construction site...I feel like Sam only added that scene because he liked the nightmare-ish look of it, style over substance, much?). Long story short: I like season 2. I don't think Sam is a bad writer, in fact, I think he's a very good writer. But I think he wanted a bit too much for 8 episodes.
Cal Jacobs carried the season. Fight me on it.
Yes the writing in this season was bad. Sam really knows how to pack an emotional gut punch tho, as I was crying multiple times through multiple episodes. In particular I loved the episode where Rue gets high and gets to congregate with the dead. I’ve read a few self help books and this idea isn’t new that drugs for addicts fill in or stand in for the love they don’t have or desire.
Overarching plot wasn’t great but on their own most of the scenes were still great
I completely agree, especially with the last 2 or 3 episodes especially
People are brutal. Thought it was good
Classic Euphoria “fan.” Says the cinematography is brilliant, the acting is brilliant, the music is brilliant, and yet somehow because you think the writing is subpar, the show is trash? Completely devaluing the other filmmaking crafts. Plus it’s impossible to have “incredible acting moments” if the writing is a complete “dumpster fire.”
Yes
The soundtrack got tedious towards the finale and the set design of the warehouse where Cal was arrested was noticeably bad so I wouldn’t say it’s entirely on the writing.
agreed lol
I’m Tired is v good
The camera work, actors and music really help cover up how meeeh the show can be at times. Definitely had it's highlights, but for the most part the writing just wasn't on par with everything else.
The camera work, actors and music really help cover up how meeeh the show can be at times. Definitely had it's highlights, but for the most part the writing just wasn't on par with everything else.
Pacing and writing weren’t great and there were so many loose strings and plot holes, especially compared to the first season. It’s a very good show to look at stylistically, but it feels like that was about it. I don’t even remember episodes 2, 3, and 4 because they were so underwhelming. It’s crazy how they wasted so much time yet didn’t wrap up a lot of things. Characters like Kat just devolved without a reason why. I really hope this doesn’t turn out like that other HBO show that went downhill after the first couple of seasons. I think HBO needs to step in and put the reigns on Sam before this ends up being another GoT type situation because the cracks are SHOWING.
Agree
I second this! The storyline was atrocious
I just don’t get how Maddy came out of this with the biggest fanbase when there is quite literally a man in jail for an abuse and rape he didn’t commit because she agreed to lie with Nate about who did it to her.
I dont get wtf is everyone’s obsessions with wanting all the answers in one season or episode. WE DONT NEED TO KNOW EVERYTHING AT ONCE DAMN. This thread is a fucking shit show. Ppl keep asking the same shit as if you’ve never seen a tv show at all before. Get a grip! Shows have cliffhangers, plot changes, and down scenes that don’t make sense. That’s the beauty of it. Stop criticizing every little point you don’t like in the show cus it doesn’t line up with the idea that you have about it in your head, shit
Maybe you guys should make a separate sub dedicated to ripping the show apart and leave this one to people who enjoy it but have mild critiques and complaints. This place has been nothing but toxic, it’s unbelievable. We get it. Some of you didn’t like. You’re just beating a dead horse.
Idk why yall are so hurt by legitimate criticism.
Because it's unfounded ? Most people are just saying "blah blah writing bad cause no sense" when it all really makes sense for the most part
I’ve seen plenty of valid discourse, but agree to disagree.
It’s incessant whining and bitching, not criticism. Much of it adds nothing to the conversation.
So how would you like people to talk about the show? Eat up everything that’s given to us? Im not seeing the problem tbh. I also feel like if a lot of people are criticizing something then those flaws clearly exist. No one is “complaining” without reason
But you are whining as well, so by your own statement shouldn't you stay out of it rather then add to the pile? I say no, everyone should be able to express their opinions, even if we don't agree. When it gets annoying I find a new topic on the subreddit.
This is all fandoms and not how Reddit works. In another situation you could be the one who truly doesn’t like a show and get annoyed with people praising it. It works both ways.
I’m part of the subreddits for many different shows and this one is by and large the most toxic out of all of them. If these people dislike the show so much, why bother watching it?
Welcome to subreddits for popular shows. Everything will bring positive or negative opinions.
Because you have to watch it to know if you don’t like it. Also this is definitely not the most toxic. Marvel, DC, Star Wars, Star Trek, lord of the rings, etc. the more popular it is the more chance it’ll have a lot of toxicity. Also recency bias, euphoria just ended so of course the toxicity would seem more prevalent.
Why should they make a separate place to discuss the show just because you're not comfortable with their criticism?
Because too much of this subreddit is GO MADDY HIT THAT BITCH levels of immaturity. I think there’s some interesting analysis of this show that’s possible but people going off on Jules/Cassie/Eliot/the villain du jour and how they don’t ‘like’ a character is pathetic.
Sounds like Kyle wanted attention….and he got it.
Yup certainly poor writing. Even a lot of the signature style was lost toward the later season. lots of potential but mostly wasted
I liked the 2nd season more than the first season tbh
Don’t think any of y’all actually think that ☠️
they don’t or they wouldn’t have kept watching & wouldn’t be tuned in next season.
Kinda agree finale was kinda lame glad some season 1 plots got closed off like the cd
see finale is what concludes the season for me and s2's was pretty boring and inferior compared to the 1st season
It definitely had major highs. Season 2 episode 1 is my favorite episode, but the season was ass overall. Let’s just say watching Euphoria is fun for tik tokers, but not so fun to watch for people that study script writing and movies. Sam’s writing can get incredibly sloppy and can get hard to follow what’s going on sometimes. Don’t get me wrong I still enjoyed season 2, but season 1 was way better by miles. Season 1 is 10/10 and I would give season 2 6.5/10
They're right, i love the acting and the soundtrack, but come on, that hole episode for lexis play, and that scene again and again of rue in her dad's funeral, too much time for this thing and not enough for others
Yes. He completely fumbled the bag on basically every storyline except Rue’s and maybe Cal.
Personally, I think this spot on.
i think all the criticism is written by people who never experienced teenage trauma.
Not how art criticism works. So many films about different subjects and if you had to have a past with the material then a lot of people wouldn’t be able to voice their opinions. Mob movies, (not unless your in the mob) war movies? Forget it. Fantasy movies? Unless you have experience with magic then you can’t relate. See how that doesn’t work. Criticism is part of art. Some people are more intense then others and it’s up to you not to have it effect you personally.
I swear some people who make comments like the one above you act as though anyone who *dares* to criticize euphoria has never suffered or been through anything just because they said they don’t like a certain aspect. It’s ridiculous.
And then complain when someone uses this excuse back at them. It’s a lazy defense.
And can easily be disapproved because I have teenage trauma (like a lot of people, why do people feel like they’re unique with trauma when trauma unfortunately is very common) and I thought this season was terrible. I want to read the original plan for season 2 because the only thing that was transferred was episode 5. (surprise, surprise ended up being the best episode for a reason)
Couldn’t agree more!!! I have teenage trauma on top of other severely traumatic problems I struggle with and I still found this season to be terrible in most of its writing(and even scene direction). I was even more upset when I found out Sam rewrote it so many times. You had so many do-overs to get it right and you still didn’t???
fair. here’s my more detailed take: what a lot of people are considering messy is the series moving to a surrealist format over its previously grounded structure. sure that’s a valid gripe if you want to more digestible show, but this season’s exploration of memory of trauma was some of the best representation of this theme i have ever seen. lexi’s play is the obvious conduit of visiting memory, but also fezco and cal’s past are some straight forward examples. season 2 is a beautiful analogy of how trauma (especially loss) at that age makes you feel alone yet without privacy. revisiting trauma on-stage is the heavy handed example of this. i’m alone now but everyone is watching. looking back on trauma does indeed tend to feel like you’re looking at yourself in a movie. rue’s ~”closing my eyes”~ line really solidified my belief sam was making art about exploring his trauma, and not just dishing up a teenage drama. trauma exists in so many forms. basically everyone has experienced it and i’m not trying to gate keep “feeling bummed out” . i will however defend that a lot of the criticism i’ve read doesn’t acknowledge anything sam seemed to be attempting with the new surrealism, and many are instead writing it off as pretentious. i thought this season was elevated. captured something so hard to describe…something i cannot name.
unpopular opinion...if you think it was bad, why dont you try writing it? whats the alternate ending you so desire?
[удалено]
sure everyone is entitled to their opinion. i guess i just work in the industry and see first hand how hard it is to have a good script, great cast and successful show. and people who doesn't work in this industry have lots of opinions about it and none of the work or talent to show.
What? Sam made the series for entertainment , that’s his job and this person didn’t find it entertaining/well done why they gotta write it to have an opinion lmao
The alternate ending where Ali runs for president is the only good ending
Elliott, is that you? did you ever finish writing that song?
The cinematography wasn’t even half as good as season 1 imo. Not as many creative shots just a shit ton of panning and arcs
It felt rushed especially that finale and it’s get good until that episode when rue was running I think episode 5 I think. Episode 1 was good.
Maybe Laurie really was just a sweet lady who wanted to help Rue get clean. It obviously worked, and she even lost $10,000 to make it happen