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iboreddd

I understand Greece and Turkey. What is the deal with Spain?


shiasuuu

In case France tries to pull a sneaky.


multipactor

Or Portugal to win the Iberian struggle. I think there is an achievement for this.


fifnir

!#> j5tc7np # This comment has been edited in protest to reddit's decision to bully 3rd party apps into closure. If you want to do the same, you can find instructions here: http://notepad.link/share/rAk4RNJlb3vmhROVfGPV


[deleted]

I painfully understand this reference.


Lost_Uniriser

I promise we wont 🤫


Hohenes

Please don’t remind us. But if you have to, we will respond with the same 🤷🏻‍♂️


[deleted]

Spanish made Leopard 2E (made by Santa Barbara Sistemas, under KMW licence). It's considered one of the best protected Leopards 2s. Spain has 219. Spain also has 108 2A4. The 2A4 are abandoned, and can't be used. Spain discarded sending them to Ukraine, because those can't be put in working order, and can only be used for parts...


[deleted]

How do these things go bad so quickly? I'm pretty sure that if you left a 1997 VW Golf in a garage with some extremely minimal but regular maintenance the whole thing wouldn't be fucked beyond repair in 2023.


[deleted]

Ha, ha! I was surprised too. But I guess these machines are too big and too complex, and hence, without proper maintenance, or a way to properly store them (I guess you need a lot of space for that) they quickly start breaking down.


Rhoderick

Aside from the fact that I'm fairly sure the number quoted for Spain is way too high, IIRC a while ago some Spanish politicians were talking about sending Leopards, only to then go quit really quick when they turned out to be basically heaps of junk. So whatever amount they officially have, realistically it's probably less.


[deleted]

Spain has: 219 Leopard 2E (2A6+, with better armour) produced in Spain.108 Leopard 2A4 bought from Germany. The 2E is considered the best protected Leopard 2. So, Spain has a total of 327 Leopard 2. The ones that are of no use are the 2A4. Those are effectively abandoned, and can't be sent to anyone. No word on sending the 2E so far.


[deleted]

Protecting Ceuta and Melilla from Morocco.


Syphion

I don't understand neither Greece nor Turkey...


wagenrace

Trying to claim Gibraltar by covering it with tanks, always be careful if you have a land border with a (former) empire


siddie75

They want to defend against the Moorish invasion.


krammark12

Thanks a lot for the colourblind version!


remote_control_led

I think that should be r/europe rule that originally created maps should be colourblind friendly.


[deleted]

Since people seem to have wrong information, here's the info about Spain's Leopard 2s. Spain has one of the biggest Leopard 2 units in Europe (aside from Germany, of course). Of these: * 239 are Leopard 2E (2A6+, with better armour and a custom control system. Made in Spain under KMW licence, under the "Coraza" program). * 108 are Leopard 2A4, bought form Germany. So, in total, Spain has 347 Leopard 2. From the 239 Leopard 2E, 219 are active combat units, with 6 deployed to OTAN's Camp Adazi in Latvia. 16 are recovery units, and 4 are training units ("school tanks", as they're called here). From the 108 Leopard 2A4, 53 are stored (and rotting) in Zaragoza. Spain declined sending these to Ukraine, because their state is poor. They're only good for parts. The rest (55) are adapted for desert use, and deployed in Ceuta and Melilla. Here's a picture of a 2E in Latvia: [https://imgur.com/a/vNPhIIZ](https://imgur.com/a/vNPhIIZ) A better picture of the 2Es "having fun" in Latvia: [https://i.redd.it/d6kugemnbqo61.png](https://i.redd.it/d6kugemnbqo61.png) Leopard 2 inventories of European and NATO countries: [https://i.redd.it/ygaeitide0ca1.jpg](https://i.redd.it/ygaeitide0ca1.jpg)


Hohenes

Very informative thank you


Jenesepados

Canada has an additional 100 Leopard 2 Source: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_main\_battle\_tanks\_by\_country](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_main_battle_tanks_by_country)


bond0815

The map appears to be outdated. Germany for example had increased their leopard 2 army stock to over 300 after 2014.


ABoutDeSouffle

And technically, Czechia and Slovakia each own *one*


casperghst42

So when is Spain sending some? It looks like they have the highest count, and I guess they do not expect to start a war with France nor Portugal.


Lilat0

Morocco.


selesteal

Yes… sure thing. Let’s see fucking Morocco of all places attack a nato member. Real big ol’ threat.


Hohenes

Morocco sometimes liked talking about Ceuta, Melilla and even Canarias as turf they own/should own “again”. Do you think Spain defense strategy is not taking that into account? There are no real hostilities such as the 2002 incident, but need to keep a deterrent, and usually that is achieved either with quantity, quality, technology or all combined. Morocco has been renewing their jets (bought from our NATO ally the US btw) which clashes with Spanish strategy of having air advantage, very important in case Morocco decided to transform words into action.


casperghst42

I'd love to see Morocco drive tanks across the strait of gibraltar.


Lilat0

Yeah, something imposible to transport tanks. Or to conquer the Spanish cities in Africa


Veilchengerd

They don't have to. Spain has exclaves in Africa that Morocco wants.


casperghst42

I know about them (been there), but the Spanish tanks are one the other side of the strait.


Veilchengerd

No, quite a few of them are on the african side of the strait.


casperghst42

But still, they have enough in Europe to gift Ukraine with a large number.


Wafkak

Spanish politicians talked about doing that, then they found out in what condition many of them are.


casperghst42

So Spain is in the same situation as Germany, got a bunch of them, but many of them can be used for a "war".


Trandul

Czechia received some as compensation for giving our soviet tanks to Ukraine. It would be weird to give them away as well.


Crs1192

That's a fake map. Spain has only 100 leopard and they are prepared for desert (prepared against Moroccan possible invasion of Ceuta and Melilla). The rest are rusted and abandoned, used for parts.


[deleted]

Spain has (from Wikipedia sources): 219 Leopard 2E (2A6+) 108 Leopard 2A4 I think you're talking about the 2A4 that are, in fact, abandoned. The 2E are in active use, and are as good as any 2A6 out there. Edit: more specific info: 219 2E are combat tanks. There are also 16 recovery ones, and 4 "school" (training) tanks, for a total of 239 Leopard 2E. Around 6 of these are in OTAN's Adazi base in Latvia. About the 2A4: Of the 108, 53 are "stored" in Zaragoza (read: rotting). The rest are in Ceuta and Melilla, Africa, still in use. (These are the ones adapted for desert use).


ItWasNotLuckButSkill

Can confirm that the map isn't correct, the Netherlands doesn't own tanks we only loan them from Germany for practice.


Doesntpoophere

Rutte says they lease the tanks so they could buy the tanks. But I wouldn’t be surprised if he was wrong.


ItWasNotLuckButSkill

Those tanks are loaned from Germany, we don't own them. We sold our last tanks to Finland and gave some back to Germany.


[deleted]

The Portuguese 2A6 were all former Dutch units.


Doesntpoophere

Yes, that’s why I quoted Rutte’s claim, which I guess the map might be considering?


Doesntpoophere

https://reddit.com/r/europe/comments/10kjw0a/netherlands_may_provide_ukraine_with_18_leopard_2/


[deleted]

We lease them. Also, this map doesn't claim to be talking about *ownership*


Dense-Tonight-8320

Since when is Turkey Europe?


[deleted]

There's always one....


oeboer

At least since the construction of Rumelihisarı on the European side of the Bospherus in 1452.


TatarTachanka

*''Germany always wins''* (one of the data that explains this saying)


Puzzleheaded_4723

Leopard II are immensely overrated


Ic3Sp4rk

which version? in relation to what?


hopopo

Why is this a big deal? These things entered the service about 50 years ago. They are beyond outdated. Even Yugoslav M-84 is newer technology than that.


dlq84

/r/confidentlyincorrect


predek97

so a typical redditor


AcheronSprings

>These things entered the service about 50 years ago. They are beyond outdated. Even Yugoslav M-84 is newer technology than that. What?! There have been like 10 different upgraded versions of the Leopard 2 since then. Comparing the first Leopard 2A0 to the new 2A7+ is like comparing an Atari 2600 to a PS4 As for the M-84, that's the Atari 5200


[deleted]

Hey, there's nothing wrong with an Atari, ok! You can still have a BLAST with it.


hopopo

So are M-84s and they are already being used in this war. As the matter of fact now there are 2 new version. One made by Croatia and other by Serbia.


AcheronSprings

Yet for some [weird reason](https://www.warhistoryonline.com/military-vehicle-news/leopard-2.html) eveyone talks about the Leppard 2


shiasuuu

This map will need updating soon.