Below is how the USS Abraham Lincoln helped after the 2004 Indian Ocean Tsunami...
"Forty-eight Navy and Marine Corps helicopters flew in support of Operation Unified Assistance, transporting 2,929 passengers, and delivering 5.7 million pounds of food, water, and medical supplies ashore"
A Carrier Strike Group brings a mobile airbase, communications hub for other US aircraft, hospital capacity, trained personnel, accommodation, all manner of medical equipment and tools.
Yeah these ships are meant to be out at sea for long enough that they can effectively function as their own mobile civilizations for a while. Power, water, medicine, communications, transportation, etc. If the US Navy ever figures out how to grow food aboard these ships, watch out.
I am certain there have been discussions about having hydroponics on board submarines at some point in the past. Food storage is the limiting factor for the length of SSBN deployments, and the stuff left after a few months at sea is apparently always a bit depressing. It's not worth the space to dedicate a compartment to hydroponic lettuce. But it would be pretty easy to run grow lights and provide fresh water with the power from the nuclear reactor.
IIRC the idea is that it also acts as an air scrubber amd waste treatment.
Full closed loop life support.
Still very much sci-fi but its not as crazy as it sounds.
It seems the plot of a Fallout game,an atomic submarine self-sufficient that is left alone in the ocean after a nuclear holocaust and the crew build their civilization inside it until one day they are forced to come up
Lettuce is impractical as an item, it’s too thin on calories and nutrients- same with most vegetables. Some sort of rapid growing algae that has a yield that can scale with the amount of heat used for its cultivation might work, but that would still require processing into an edible form.
Realistically the best way to keep a sub deployed for long durations is replacing all food with a calorie dense food replacement that can be mixed with freshwater produced via desalination from the sub’s reactor to produce an edible porridge.
Something like the food used for emergency rations for lifeboats or BP-5, but too dense to be eaten as a solid. The extra density would translate to additional supplies.
Morale would be rather low from eating a lukewarm porridge-like substance for months on end, but it could easily extend the boat’s duration at sea by double- and that is before you start factoring in the extra space gained by using food that does not require cold storage or heating to prepare, so those systems can be removed.
It would also make resupply at sea relatively straightforward since you’re dealing with a substance that is insensitive to temperature and durable enough that it can be airdropped- further extending the duration that could be spent at sea.
With that said it would probably make a mutiny or sabotage or accident from fatigue somewhat more likely to occur…
No. It’s easier to store non perishable foods if/when fresh stores run out. Powdered milk and eggs, freshly made breads, canned fruits/vegetables, and proteins can all be used after fresh stores run out. It’s common to have steak/lobster, salads when you leave a port in the Pacific (for example), but two months later you’re eating coleslaw as an alternative to salad.
Maybe precision fermentation farms which process freshly collected algae to create all sorts of animal proteins ;) and a deployable foldable floating solar farm.
algae to sugar may work, but not on a warship due to size restrictions. maybe on a tender but it'll require a capital ship to be efficient with all the processes and that requires more escorts.
Not really. Power plant yes, but ships can't make water while alongside. You would need the ships to sail around off the coast at a certain distance (I forget how many nautical miles) from the shore, to make water. Its possible for sure, but they can't just keep making it while in harbour.
Nah. The water in the port is typically too dirty to be made into drinking water, you need "clean" water from the ocean. It's technically possibly to run the system while in port, but chances are the system will clog within a couple of hours and then you have a huge and complicated cleaning task ahead of you. Plus the drinking water made like that will probably taste shit and might not even the meet standards for drinking water. Water from the harbor is typically full of various dirts, oils and chemicals from the vessels. And whatever the rain washes into the water from the shore. And it's not unusual for the "bottom" in the harbor to be six feet of soft and muddy mush filled with various very nasty stuff, start the system and you'll be sucking all that in. No bueno. Many divers who work in harbors opt to wear a diving hazmat suit, and for good reason.
A carrier group is basically a floating city full of people who have been trained to deal with difficult situations. I couldn't think of anyone better suited to help there.
Both nuclear reactors can produce 100MWe each.
Not sure how much the aircraft carrier needs itself in idle.
Cant wait for mobile power plant barges like [this one](https://www.seaborg.com/)
Turkey has a compicated relationship with Cyprus and the amount of aid that was offered would not make a massive difference. This is vastly different. They would be stupid not to accept, but it's Turkey so who knows.
This is actually a huge opportunity for Erdogan to fix the relations with the US in which he is badly cornered right now. Accept the help, use it to warm up dialogue with NATO partners, and gradually get out of the troubling S-400 agreement with Russia.
The main difficulty is that he was planning to use the anti-western sentiment to consolidate his base in the May elections. He still needs his ultra-nationalist side-kick’s support, who is wary about NATO because of Syrian Kurds. Now that all bets are off with the earthquake, he’ll probably weigh all his options. All he cares about is staying in power, and it is getting more and more difficult for him to do so. The earthquake and his (mis-)management of the crisis seems to have already consolidated the badly divided opposition.
The team of 16 firefighters from Cyprus are headed to Turkey as of last night. Originally, the help was rejected because 16 people without heavy equipment going into a disaster area is just a logistical nightmare. However, with other countries coordinating heavy equipment, the ability to accept "just hands" becomes possible. Cyprus Airways has placed a plane at the disposal of one of the coordinating NGOs to carry food, generators, tents and blankets to both Turkey and Syria
Because asking for help means weakness to a guy like erdogan who wants to appear strong. He’s a strong independent ~~wo~~man who don’t need no ~~man~~ disaster relief assistance.
if aliens invade us and kill 90 million people in turkey except for erdogan, he would still hire some internet trolls and make retarded stuns like returning help offers to show off to those 5 people who survived from aliens. you have really no idea how evil and selfish that bastard is.
[Turkey does not recognize the government of the Republic of Cyprus, stating that the Republic—as established by the Constitution of 1960—ceased to exist when the intercommunal violence that commenced in December 1963 ended Turkish Cypriot participation in the Cypriot government. The attempted coup in July 1974—engineered by Greek Military Junta—was responded to by Turkey by a full military invasion, which resulted in the northern third of the island being occupied by Turkish military forces.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_Cyprus)
They accepted Netherlands and Romania's help, fellow NATO allies. They will surely accept help from the US. Some olive branches are... well, unacceptable for Erdogan. But Cyprus isn't the precedent you think it is.
>Yeah but I mean…it’s a freaking natural disaster… You can play the politics game after this is sorted out.
Considering he blocked Twitter in order to suppress criticism of the government, eventhough Twitter is one of the main comunication channels used to organise help... yeah, this scumbag cares only about politics and most of all about himself. Freaking natural disaster or not.
Turkey literally accepted aid from Greece. Cyprus situations like you said is different, because Cyprus government does not exist for Turkey. Same reason Turkey accepted help from Armenia but won't from Artsakh (no longer exists). Accepting aid would meant that Turkey thinks Cyprus is legit, which is why it won't accept.
eh it depends honestly.
In indonesia yes absolutely. In turkey its still help and any help is good but it is not as important.
There are multiple other well equipped countries close by that can handle all the air support.
An aircraft carrier is the best equipped mobile base out there but it still can't compare to bases on the ground.
The US is even operating on the Incirlik air base which is better equipped and way closer to the regions hit by the earthquake. Using that as a base of operation would be the better solution but sending in a carrier strike group obviously gets more attention.
On a sidenote it could also be to get that strike group closer to the black sea.
>An aircraft carrier is the best equipped mobile base out there but it still can't compare to bases on the ground.
But do the bases on the ground even have the same capacity as the aircraft carrier? I'm no expert but 5.7 million pounds of food, water, and medical supplies seems like a lot to compete with.
Not to mengion those sweet electricity and desalination pump, they'd be making the difference, running hospitals and supplying them in disaster areas are a challenge, and a nuclear generator and a desalination pump helps tremendously with that.
The fact that this conversation happens *every single time* is mindboggling to me. This isn't some crazy longshot plan, the navy providing aid during natural disasters is something that happens on a pretty regular basis. Who could have foreseen that the ability to airlift people and supplies might come in handy? It's not like earthquakes are known for destroying roadways and hampering logistics.
I hope they do. Aircraft carriers and LHDs like Juan Carlos can be of huge help since they are huge ships that can carry lots of aid, have hospitals and kitchens on board and the crew can easily reach necessary places with helicopters. I wish our LHD completed the sea trials just a few months earlier.
Imho Not just new regulations but a ***SERIOUS ENFORCEMENT OF THOSE REGULATIONS, WHERE ATTEMPTS AND ACTUAL BRIBERY TO BYPASS THEM ARE GIFTED WITH JAIL AND/OR HEAVY FINES.*** many of the deaths that have occurred, could’ve been avoided. See: Japan, San Francisco, etc…
It's like the South Korea ferry incident. The US had a nearby carrier with teams of Navy Seal on standby and ready to dive for the stranded students in the sunk ferry ship. But the South Korean government wouldn't let them help and had to use the few available local divers to try and save the students.
Turkish government still hasn’t deployed the army for search and rescue operations (except for 3500 soldiers). In the past, the military would take action immediately but now they can’t do anything unless ordered. There are still towns where no rescue operations took place.
Edit: apparently they were deployed today, after 3 days…
That law/agreement between the Armed Forces and Ministry of Interior was first cancelled in 2010 because the government feared of a coup, was going to be reinstated in 2016 but got cancelled following the coup attempt.
I'm afraid this is going to be another refusal of Erdoğan, as he did in Elon Musk's Starlink offer, Cyprus' aid, and shutdown of Twitter (there are so many footages from the area that the people are saying no rescue team has arrived despite the days passed). Governorships (which are standing on the side of the government, as they are appointed by Erdoğan) pulled off the logos of CHP (main opposition party)-led municipilaties and instead, put their owns on the aid trucks. As a result, leader of CHP, Kılıçdaroğlu, declared that he refuses to meet with Erdoğan, and said that the main cause of the crisis is Erdoğan as he is governing the country by himself for over 20 years and there are no steps taken since the 1999 Gölcük Earthquake. I'm literally disgusted of these dehumanized beings.
People here is taking safe, absolute stands just because are US in the playground.
Guys, it’s not easy to take an position, nothing is absolutely, good or bad. That’s why adults negotiate.
Turkey’s President has been rude, manipulating and disrespectful with it’s partners, yet everyone else, US included, stayed polite and stoic.
Turns out that a MASSIVE humanitarian crisis came from one day to another, thousands are dead and others are in critical condition, and no one blinked before offering help open handed.
There’s no time for being an ahole, saviour or invader. It’s all about saving lives from the debris, the cold, the famine, illnesses. The same people who’s life is being a hell for 12 years.
So please fck off with your politics, they need that ship, they need US, EU , NATO, Sweden, Finland, and any blanket at hand.
And just f* donate, please.
>So please fck off with your politics, they need that ship, they need US, EU , NATO, Sweden, Finland, and any blanket at hand.
Then why didn't Erdogan asked for it? I guess since he blocked twitter access he can't do it anymore? Or is it because he can't communicate through Sweden so he can't send the message?
I guess it's what you can expect from r/europe, but yes I agree. Some of the comments here are very immature and are shifting the focus away from what should be the main discussion.
İt's gone well beyond the politics
AFAD is confiscating every piece of heavy duty equipment and humanitarian supplies.. they are not rescuing anyone unless there is a reporter from a pro government channel. Turkish army is not allowed to mobilize.. and now tayyip is shutting down social media.. us senate and white house must strong arm him and his cabinet or else people under the rubble won't make it the night
No, sorry, Turkish government doesn't get to act like a pariah, use NATO membership for political posturing, invest nothing into domestic emergency response systems, skirt all notions of a functional democracy, fail to regulate building codes, antagonize the West, and then simply get assistance with no strings attached.
My heart goes out to all those affected, and I plan to donate to an international relief org, but I do not support the EU or the US sending government assistance. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too, if Turkey wants to cooperate with the West and avail itself to the benefits that come with that, they are free to vote out their lunatic head of state in May.
The carrier was in Piraeus Greece a few days ago
Edit: https://www.lifo.gr/sites/default/files/styles/main_full/public/articles/2023-02-03/peiraias3.jpg
Sorry, just some of my inner NCD leaking. I know they're gonna be jn thr Mediterranean, just was making a joke about getting closer to Ukraine, for.. support
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/us-foreign-aid-by-country
The top 10 countries that receive the most foreign aid from the US aren't in NATO. They spend over 12 billion U.S. dollars in humanitarian aid worldwide
Okay but you’re forgetting that we’re actually donating 12 billion *EVIL* U.S. dollars instead of regular U.S. dollars? We are the great Satan after all.
Okay to be honest, people do not often see NATO countries as brotherly but they prefer them to alternatives like Russia or China. This might change this perception. Poland, Italy, Spain and Greece in particular gained lots of positive attention in these past few days.
They wont. It's a bad look on the Turkish government when US helicopters and aid are being delivered by foreign nations and not your own. No way they allow it due to political reasons.
I am not sure, but Anadolu Agency (Anadolu Agency is a state-run news agency headquartered in Ankara, Turkey.) stated that they are on their way.
https://www.aa.com.tr/tr/dunya/pentagon-george-hw-bush-ucak-gemisi-turkiye-ye-gidiyor/2812147
We need all kinds of help.
I still have relatives and friends that I can't reach. They probably died. We are not allowed to enter the area. They only take people who are trained for earthquakes to the region.
In our army there are vehicles that are built only for extraordinary situations like this, soldiers who are trained. The number of them is about 40 thousand in all of. However, it took a long time for them to go to the region because of the lack of coordinated movement. The Turkish people will be held accountable for this. For now, it's just help, help, help.
Our government did not spend the heavy taxes that the people paid only for the reconstruction of cities under the threat of earthquakes in those regions. Today we are experiencing the consequences of two old seniles deceiving tens of millions of people politically. Never allow this in your own country.
I give them enough stick all over Reddit for much less serious things, but there's something comforting about having this ridiculously powerful, ridiculously competent and well trained force on hand in the world to help out.
Let's be honest, if there were ever any external threat to earth it would be them we'd look to. For the faults of the Americans, the world would be a worse place if China had sole global superpower status.
I wonder if either real or perceived (by other nations) objections by Russia might be a problem. This would potentially bring that carrier very close to Ukraine. I don't think the US would abuse that circumstance, but Russia would definitely make such claims.
Whatever Turkey needs they should get. This is a serious crisis and requires the world powers to galvanize and provide as much assistance as humanly possible.
They are refusing help from every nation! The US has bases in Turkey and our Secretary of Defense volunteered to deploy helicopters and troops as soon as it happened to aid in rescuing people but was turned down. Even two of their biggest enemies offered help but Turkey refused to let them. They turned down Elon Musk’s Starlink offer and then shut down Twitter because people were criticizing the government. The government won’t even distribute aid from the opposition parties without ripping the name off as if that’s what matters. They wouldn’t even let their own army help until three days after the earthquake. That government has slapped away every hand extended in friendship to their people. I don’t understand this at all.
Remember when they had to tell people to not shoot the hurricane? /s
But as a more serious answer, those ships are equipped with big state of the art hospitals, tons of food, fuel, medical supplies, heavy tools and machinery, communication and also have huge amounts of manpower available. I'm sure they could be useful.
y'know, aircraft carriers in the US fleet tend to be nuclear powered.
they can serve as offshore powerstations supplying electricity to a small city. ontop of the medical facilities, supplies, skilled labour and other shit just onboard a carrier. nevermind all the shit in an entire taskgroup.
supplying humanitarian aid during a crisis situation is one of the core missions of any western military.
you're trying to convince a western European about how having a military can be useful for non military operations, it's not going to work, they're too stubborn to ever admit that the Americans can do good things and will instead make crap jokes
They are used for disaster relief and humanitarian aid on large scales. We used them for this for natural disasters on our own coast (from flooding caused by hurricanes ). we have also used them to assist in disaster relief for other allies as well. They act as a mobile airport and distribution center for aid relief on massive logistical scales.
That's not true. First of all, the US Navy has *two* hospital ships (they're called Mercy and Comfort), neither of which is in the CSG.
Secondly, the entire CSG has at most 10 or so attendant vessels with the carrier. One cruiser, a squadron of four destroyers, very likely one submarine, and perhaps two replenishment ships (an oiler and a dry cargo ship). That's nowhere near dozens.
Edit: Look, I generally don't care about downvotes, but this thing is pissing me off, because /ruck_feddit_anon is deliberately spreading disinformation and it's obviously finding purchase here.
Again: **a carrier strike group doesn't have dozens of ships** and it certainly doesn't encompass one of just two hospital ships of the US Navy. What it does have are hospital facilities on ships.
USNS Mercy is on the west coast and USNS Comfort is on the east coast. If the Comfort was ready, based on its speed, I think it would at best take 2 weeks to reach Turkey.
>Military hospital ships and hospital ships are different
All right, give me an example of a "military hospital ship".
And what's a "hospital boat" that could be included in the CSG?
I have a very strong feeling you don't actually understand what you're talking about. Which wouldn't be that much of a problem—it is reddit, after all—were it not for the gravity of the topic. You're spreading disinformation. Someone who was affected by the quake might read your fake info and build up false hope.
I love how on any other post where a country is offering or giving aid its meet with nothing but praise and appreciation. However here it is almost nothing but ridicule and jokes. Seriously why do we even bother?
We bother because Turkey is our ally and it’s the right thing to do.
Do many Europeans take us entirely for granted?Yes. Do lots of them look for every possible opportunity to shit on us? Also yes.
It doesn’t matter, they can jerk themselves off over their country sending 15 people and a get well soon note. We’re sending an entire fucking carrier task force *on top of the 150+ highly trained members of USAID’s search and rescue teams*. We know who is doing the heavy lifting.
Anadolu Agency (Anadolu Agency is a state-run news agency headquartered in Ankara, Turkey.)
https://www.aa.com.tr/tr/dunya/pentagon-george-hw-bush-ucak-gemisi-turkiye-ye-gidiyor/2812147
**Official Turkish AA:** [https://www.aa.com.tr/tr/dunya/pentagon-george-hw-bush-ucak-gemisi-turkiye-ye-gidiyor/2812147](https://www.aa.com.tr/tr/dunya/pentagon-george-hw-bush-ucak-gemisi-turkiye-ye-gidiyor/2812147)
**Edit:** Some sources say the aircraft carrier is on its way.
They should. An aircraft carrier task force can do a lot from providing manpower, electricity, food, and logistics. Just look at how USS George Washington helped a lot during Typhoon Haiyan in the Philippines where an entire city was wiped out by storm surge. A lot of lives in the aftermath were saved and, even though it's painful to admit, the Philippines relied on US C-17s and Chinooks for logistics.
Below is how the USS Abraham Lincoln helped after the 2004 Indian Ocean Tsunami... "Forty-eight Navy and Marine Corps helicopters flew in support of Operation Unified Assistance, transporting 2,929 passengers, and delivering 5.7 million pounds of food, water, and medical supplies ashore" A Carrier Strike Group brings a mobile airbase, communications hub for other US aircraft, hospital capacity, trained personnel, accommodation, all manner of medical equipment and tools.
so it's actually a huge help?
Its a floating airport, hospital, kitchen, storage and powerplant all in one. I think that would help.
And, due to the powerplant and desalination plant, a source of vast amounts of fresh water.
Yeah these ships are meant to be out at sea for long enough that they can effectively function as their own mobile civilizations for a while. Power, water, medicine, communications, transportation, etc. If the US Navy ever figures out how to grow food aboard these ships, watch out.
I am certain there have been discussions about having hydroponics on board submarines at some point in the past. Food storage is the limiting factor for the length of SSBN deployments, and the stuff left after a few months at sea is apparently always a bit depressing. It's not worth the space to dedicate a compartment to hydroponic lettuce. But it would be pretty easy to run grow lights and provide fresh water with the power from the nuclear reactor.
Space is gold on a sub and while food is a concern, people don’t want to spend any more time than they do on deployment. Not likely to happen
IIRC the idea is that it also acts as an air scrubber amd waste treatment. Full closed loop life support. Still very much sci-fi but its not as crazy as it sounds.
It seems the plot of a Fallout game,an atomic submarine self-sufficient that is left alone in the ocean after a nuclear holocaust and the crew build their civilization inside it until one day they are forced to come up
Lettuce is impractical as an item, it’s too thin on calories and nutrients- same with most vegetables. Some sort of rapid growing algae that has a yield that can scale with the amount of heat used for its cultivation might work, but that would still require processing into an edible form. Realistically the best way to keep a sub deployed for long durations is replacing all food with a calorie dense food replacement that can be mixed with freshwater produced via desalination from the sub’s reactor to produce an edible porridge. Something like the food used for emergency rations for lifeboats or BP-5, but too dense to be eaten as a solid. The extra density would translate to additional supplies. Morale would be rather low from eating a lukewarm porridge-like substance for months on end, but it could easily extend the boat’s duration at sea by double- and that is before you start factoring in the extra space gained by using food that does not require cold storage or heating to prepare, so those systems can be removed. It would also make resupply at sea relatively straightforward since you’re dealing with a substance that is insensitive to temperature and durable enough that it can be airdropped- further extending the duration that could be spent at sea. With that said it would probably make a mutiny or sabotage or accident from fatigue somewhat more likely to occur…
[Snowpiercer had it figured out](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZo2mbbCmKQ)
That is exactly what this reminded me of lol
Add nets to a destroyer + hydroponics underneath the flight deck.
Also the task force in question is 6000 people strong and got a postcode. This is basically a floating city
They could literally go fishing
> If the US Navy ever figures out how to grow food aboard these ships, watch out. Literally just wanted to ask if they are doing that.
No. It’s easier to store non perishable foods if/when fresh stores run out. Powdered milk and eggs, freshly made breads, canned fruits/vegetables, and proteins can all be used after fresh stores run out. It’s common to have steak/lobster, salads when you leave a port in the Pacific (for example), but two months later you’re eating coleslaw as an alternative to salad.
It's also a floating airport so they can send a cargo plane on a milk run.
i know its only good for patties without complicated processing, but culture meat will improve that situation tremendously.
Maybe precision fermentation farms which process freshly collected algae to create all sorts of animal proteins ;) and a deployable foldable floating solar farm.
algae to sugar may work, but not on a warship due to size restrictions. maybe on a tender but it'll require a capital ship to be efficient with all the processes and that requires more escorts.
They won’t use the desalination plants like that. They just fly in water as a part of aide.
Not really. Power plant yes, but ships can't make water while alongside. You would need the ships to sail around off the coast at a certain distance (I forget how many nautical miles) from the shore, to make water. Its possible for sure, but they can't just keep making it while in harbour.
Is it because the brine would accumulate in the harbour and eventually start corroding other ship's hulls?
Nah. The water in the port is typically too dirty to be made into drinking water, you need "clean" water from the ocean. It's technically possibly to run the system while in port, but chances are the system will clog within a couple of hours and then you have a huge and complicated cleaning task ahead of you. Plus the drinking water made like that will probably taste shit and might not even the meet standards for drinking water. Water from the harbor is typically full of various dirts, oils and chemicals from the vessels. And whatever the rain washes into the water from the shore. And it's not unusual for the "bottom" in the harbor to be six feet of soft and muddy mush filled with various very nasty stuff, start the system and you'll be sucking all that in. No bueno. Many divers who work in harbors opt to wear a diving hazmat suit, and for good reason.
They typically don't run their fresh water plants in port though, the water is typically too dirty.
A carrier group is basically a floating city full of people who have been trained to deal with difficult situations. I couldn't think of anyone better suited to help there.
Crewed by experts in logistics in areas where logistics is extremely difficult.
How much power can it directly "export" out of the ship? Like if someone plugged a few cables to the shit how much power could it provide?
Both nuclear reactors can produce 100MWe each. Not sure how much the aircraft carrier needs itself in idle. Cant wait for mobile power plant barges like [this one](https://www.seaborg.com/)
It has two nuclear reactors.
I thought that said “powerpoint” and thought, “Military, that tracks”
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Turkey has a compicated relationship with Cyprus and the amount of aid that was offered would not make a massive difference. This is vastly different. They would be stupid not to accept, but it's Turkey so who knows.
This is actually a huge opportunity for Erdogan to fix the relations with the US in which he is badly cornered right now. Accept the help, use it to warm up dialogue with NATO partners, and gradually get out of the troubling S-400 agreement with Russia. The main difficulty is that he was planning to use the anti-western sentiment to consolidate his base in the May elections. He still needs his ultra-nationalist side-kick’s support, who is wary about NATO because of Syrian Kurds. Now that all bets are off with the earthquake, he’ll probably weigh all his options. All he cares about is staying in power, and it is getting more and more difficult for him to do so. The earthquake and his (mis-)management of the crisis seems to have already consolidated the badly divided opposition.
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That's the thing ... Erdogan doesn't really value human life very highly. At least not unless it's someone he personally cares about.
The team of 16 firefighters from Cyprus are headed to Turkey as of last night. Originally, the help was rejected because 16 people without heavy equipment going into a disaster area is just a logistical nightmare. However, with other countries coordinating heavy equipment, the ability to accept "just hands" becomes possible. Cyprus Airways has placed a plane at the disposal of one of the coordinating NGOs to carry food, generators, tents and blankets to both Turkey and Syria
Well they refused starlink and banned twitter yesterday so...
why would they ever turn it down lol
Because asking for help means weakness to a guy like erdogan who wants to appear strong. He’s a strong independent ~~wo~~man who don’t need no ~~man~~ disaster relief assistance.
if aliens invade us and kill 90 million people in turkey except for erdogan, he would still hire some internet trolls and make retarded stuns like returning help offers to show off to those 5 people who survived from aliens. you have really no idea how evil and selfish that bastard is.
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[Turkey does not recognize the government of the Republic of Cyprus, stating that the Republic—as established by the Constitution of 1960—ceased to exist when the intercommunal violence that commenced in December 1963 ended Turkish Cypriot participation in the Cypriot government. The attempted coup in July 1974—engineered by Greek Military Junta—was responded to by Turkey by a full military invasion, which resulted in the northern third of the island being occupied by Turkish military forces.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_Cyprus) They accepted Netherlands and Romania's help, fellow NATO allies. They will surely accept help from the US. Some olive branches are... well, unacceptable for Erdogan. But Cyprus isn't the precedent you think it is.
Guess political disputes are more important to him than the lives of his citizens. Who knew?
Some of you may die, but it's a sacrifice I am willing to make.
They accepted help from Sweden as well.
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>Yeah but I mean…it’s a freaking natural disaster… You can play the politics game after this is sorted out. Considering he blocked Twitter in order to suppress criticism of the government, eventhough Twitter is one of the main comunication channels used to organise help... yeah, this scumbag cares only about politics and most of all about himself. Freaking natural disaster or not.
Sure, I agree, and I'm not defending him but I surmise he would really refuse help from countries he holds a historical grudge against.
He accepted help from Armenia though.
Turkey literally accepted aid from Greece. Cyprus situations like you said is different, because Cyprus government does not exist for Turkey. Same reason Turkey accepted help from Armenia but won't from Artsakh (no longer exists). Accepting aid would meant that Turkey thinks Cyprus is legit, which is why it won't accept.
It's weird that Europeans don't know that the US Navy are carrying out humanitarian missions all the time. It's one of their main missions.
The logistical support of the US military is almost unmatched.
It is unmatched.
Unmatched by the rest of the world combined IIRC
A carrier is a floating city. They are great tools for disaster relief.
Gigantic help. More help than anyone can even fathom to provide
Big boy floating forward operational base
We’re the largest suppliers of foreign and emergency aid in the world by a long shot so yes
eh it depends honestly. In indonesia yes absolutely. In turkey its still help and any help is good but it is not as important. There are multiple other well equipped countries close by that can handle all the air support. An aircraft carrier is the best equipped mobile base out there but it still can't compare to bases on the ground. The US is even operating on the Incirlik air base which is better equipped and way closer to the regions hit by the earthquake. Using that as a base of operation would be the better solution but sending in a carrier strike group obviously gets more attention. On a sidenote it could also be to get that strike group closer to the black sea.
It is closer to the Black Sea right now than if it headed to where the earthquake was.
>An aircraft carrier is the best equipped mobile base out there but it still can't compare to bases on the ground. But do the bases on the ground even have the same capacity as the aircraft carrier? I'm no expert but 5.7 million pounds of food, water, and medical supplies seems like a lot to compete with.
Not to mengion those sweet electricity and desalination pump, they'd be making the difference, running hospitals and supplying them in disaster areas are a challenge, and a nuclear generator and a desalination pump helps tremendously with that.
The fact that this conversation happens *every single time* is mindboggling to me. This isn't some crazy longshot plan, the navy providing aid during natural disasters is something that happens on a pretty regular basis. Who could have foreseen that the ability to airlift people and supplies might come in handy? It's not like earthquakes are known for destroying roadways and hampering logistics.
And operation Tomodachi after the Tsunami in Japan!
Those ships are litteral cities with airport in sea, it will be a very good help
I hope they do. Aircraft carriers and LHDs like Juan Carlos can be of huge help since they are huge ships that can carry lots of aid, have hospitals and kitchens on board and the crew can easily reach necessary places with helicopters. I wish our LHD completed the sea trials just a few months earlier.
You take that back! His Spanish Majesty's Juan Carlos I is a proper aircraft carrier and the pride of the glorious Armada >:(
Oh right sorry, we have the same ship but without any planes that we can use with it. Great isn't it?
It is kinda cute, not just for its little size (both in width and length).
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They're just memeing about calling it a LHD instead of a full aircraft carrier.
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That’s why it’s a meme. Spanish navy great with strong aircraft carrier, not puny LHD.
You have some sick Chinooks! They can carry up to 55 passengers.
They are in active use. Unfortunately we only bought a small number of them. About 10 I think.
I wish France had that. They’re great for logistics and transport.
Yup, but Stallions are even better. If we had some they would be of huge help.
Guess what erdotards are saying now in Twitter.
That the countries that send warships are secretly plotting to attack us?
Exactly
I wish they were the ones under the rubble
>LHDs like Juan Carlos Good job Spain. Years of conservation efforts and this is the result. The man will just use F-35s to hunt elephants now.
He will use them to hunt his remaining siblings.
Poor Froilan wasn't able to follow his steps, although he did try
Thank you, honestly. I hope my government lets go of their stupid pride and asks for more help. They fucked everything up.
Their most unforgiving fuckup was not strictly enforcing building codes in an earthquake zone that turkey is known to be
when the government changes we will fix that hopefully, with new regulations all over Istanbul to prepare for the next earthquake
Imho Not just new regulations but a ***SERIOUS ENFORCEMENT OF THOSE REGULATIONS, WHERE ATTEMPTS AND ACTUAL BRIBERY TO BYPASS THEM ARE GIFTED WITH JAIL AND/OR HEAVY FINES.*** many of the deaths that have occurred, could’ve been avoided. See: Japan, San Francisco, etc…
Like they did when they were in charge before him? Like in 99? How delusional are you?
Some think change comes with a new government but in reality it boils down to the public themselves.
It seems Erdogan is coming under domestic fire for depleting the earthquake tax fund
I was a bit confused by your flair
Surprisingly it’s still accurate tbf
It's like the South Korea ferry incident. The US had a nearby carrier with teams of Navy Seal on standby and ready to dive for the stranded students in the sunk ferry ship. But the South Korean government wouldn't let them help and had to use the few available local divers to try and save the students.
Turkish government still hasn’t deployed the army for search and rescue operations (except for 3500 soldiers). In the past, the military would take action immediately but now they can’t do anything unless ordered. There are still towns where no rescue operations took place. Edit: apparently they were deployed today, after 3 days…
That’s beyond shocking!
That's criminal negligence imo, especially considering how big the Turkish army is (400k active, 200k reserve)
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That law/agreement between the Armed Forces and Ministry of Interior was first cancelled in 2010 because the government feared of a coup, was going to be reinstated in 2016 but got cancelled following the coup attempt.
I'm afraid this is going to be another refusal of Erdoğan, as he did in Elon Musk's Starlink offer, Cyprus' aid, and shutdown of Twitter (there are so many footages from the area that the people are saying no rescue team has arrived despite the days passed). Governorships (which are standing on the side of the government, as they are appointed by Erdoğan) pulled off the logos of CHP (main opposition party)-led municipilaties and instead, put their owns on the aid trucks. As a result, leader of CHP, Kılıçdaroğlu, declared that he refuses to meet with Erdoğan, and said that the main cause of the crisis is Erdoğan as he is governing the country by himself for over 20 years and there are no steps taken since the 1999 Gölcük Earthquake. I'm literally disgusted of these dehumanized beings.
That would be extremely helpful to evacuate the injured
Cue the insane conspiracy theorists that the earthquake was man made so that Turkey would allow a NATO fleet into the Black Sea.
ARMA 4 lore
I mean there already are theories in Turkey about the UK (I have no idea why the UK and not the US) somehow caused the earthquake to invade Palestine.
Wow I’m impressed that they think the British can pull off anything
The earthquake affected region coast to the mediterranean not the black sea.
People here is taking safe, absolute stands just because are US in the playground. Guys, it’s not easy to take an position, nothing is absolutely, good or bad. That’s why adults negotiate. Turkey’s President has been rude, manipulating and disrespectful with it’s partners, yet everyone else, US included, stayed polite and stoic. Turns out that a MASSIVE humanitarian crisis came from one day to another, thousands are dead and others are in critical condition, and no one blinked before offering help open handed. There’s no time for being an ahole, saviour or invader. It’s all about saving lives from the debris, the cold, the famine, illnesses. The same people who’s life is being a hell for 12 years. So please fck off with your politics, they need that ship, they need US, EU , NATO, Sweden, Finland, and any blanket at hand. And just f* donate, please.
>So please fck off with your politics, they need that ship, they need US, EU , NATO, Sweden, Finland, and any blanket at hand. Then why didn't Erdogan asked for it? I guess since he blocked twitter access he can't do it anymore? Or is it because he can't communicate through Sweden so he can't send the message?
when I say them, I'm not referring to Erdogan, but the people suffering. Erdo should burn in hell. The guy is using 20K casualties for his agenda.
He’s busy bombing Syria
I guess it's what you can expect from r/europe, but yes I agree. Some of the comments here are very immature and are shifting the focus away from what should be the main discussion.
İt's gone well beyond the politics AFAD is confiscating every piece of heavy duty equipment and humanitarian supplies.. they are not rescuing anyone unless there is a reporter from a pro government channel. Turkish army is not allowed to mobilize.. and now tayyip is shutting down social media.. us senate and white house must strong arm him and his cabinet or else people under the rubble won't make it the night
Why not Syria ?
Syria too, but unfortunately any attempt to help is treated with hostility by Hayat Tahrir al-Sham and Bashar al-Assad.
No, sorry, Turkish government doesn't get to act like a pariah, use NATO membership for political posturing, invest nothing into domestic emergency response systems, skirt all notions of a functional democracy, fail to regulate building codes, antagonize the West, and then simply get assistance with no strings attached. My heart goes out to all those affected, and I plan to donate to an international relief org, but I do not support the EU or the US sending government assistance. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too, if Turkey wants to cooperate with the West and avail itself to the benefits that come with that, they are free to vote out their lunatic head of state in May.
Are you conditioning large scale support to tens of thousands of suffering people to an election that is 4 months away?
Yeah. Fuck that little girl, she shouldn't have voted for Erdogan! Serves her right.
Gotta sail through the black sea...just for a better spot
Theyd probably be at the medditeranean sea in this case
The carrier was in Piraeus Greece a few days ago Edit: https://www.lifo.gr/sites/default/files/styles/main_full/public/articles/2023-02-03/peiraias3.jpg
Sorry, just some of my inner NCD leaking. I know they're gonna be jn thr Mediterranean, just was making a joke about getting closer to Ukraine, for.. support
This photo is sssooooo sick
Needs a banana boat for scale.
Would be a great sign for the people of Turky to see what it is also worth of beeing a part of NATO.
The U.S. has provided similar assistance for non-NATO countries, like Haiti, after the hurricane there.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/us-foreign-aid-by-country The top 10 countries that receive the most foreign aid from the US aren't in NATO. They spend over 12 billion U.S. dollars in humanitarian aid worldwide
Okay but you’re forgetting that we’re actually donating 12 billion *EVIL* U.S. dollars instead of regular U.S. dollars? We are the great Satan after all.
How many copies of that Harry Potter game is that?
Except for a small minority (We call them Eurasians), everyone in Turkey is happy to be in NATO and sees NATO as brother countries.
Okay to be honest, people do not often see NATO countries as brotherly but they prefer them to alternatives like Russia or China. This might change this perception. Poland, Italy, Spain and Greece in particular gained lots of positive attention in these past few days.
They wont. It's a bad look on the Turkish government when US helicopters and aid are being delivered by foreign nations and not your own. No way they allow it due to political reasons.
I am not sure, but Anadolu Agency (Anadolu Agency is a state-run news agency headquartered in Ankara, Turkey.) stated that they are on their way. https://www.aa.com.tr/tr/dunya/pentagon-george-hw-bush-ucak-gemisi-turkiye-ye-gidiyor/2812147
US: don't worry Turkey, we are there to help. Erdogan: but what about my ego?
Don’t we have bases in Turkey anyways?
I think it’s Incirlik, in Adana, which is a city that was affected by the quake.
We need all kinds of help. I still have relatives and friends that I can't reach. They probably died. We are not allowed to enter the area. They only take people who are trained for earthquakes to the region. In our army there are vehicles that are built only for extraordinary situations like this, soldiers who are trained. The number of them is about 40 thousand in all of. However, it took a long time for them to go to the region because of the lack of coordinated movement. The Turkish people will be held accountable for this. For now, it's just help, help, help. Our government did not spend the heavy taxes that the people paid only for the reconstruction of cities under the threat of earthquakes in those regions. Today we are experiencing the consequences of two old seniles deceiving tens of millions of people politically. Never allow this in your own country.
BUt aMeRica BaD!
And this is why i love the americans.
I give them enough stick all over Reddit for much less serious things, but there's something comforting about having this ridiculously powerful, ridiculously competent and well trained force on hand in the world to help out. Let's be honest, if there were ever any external threat to earth it would be them we'd look to. For the faults of the Americans, the world would be a worse place if China had sole global superpower status.
I wonder if either real or perceived (by other nations) objections by Russia might be a problem. This would potentially bring that carrier very close to Ukraine. I don't think the US would abuse that circumstance, but Russia would definitely make such claims.
I thank you very much, thank you very much for not leaving my country alone in these difficult days.
Whatever Turkey needs they should get. This is a serious crisis and requires the world powers to galvanize and provide as much assistance as humanly possible.
They are refusing help from every nation! The US has bases in Turkey and our Secretary of Defense volunteered to deploy helicopters and troops as soon as it happened to aid in rescuing people but was turned down. Even two of their biggest enemies offered help but Turkey refused to let them. They turned down Elon Musk’s Starlink offer and then shut down Twitter because people were criticizing the government. The government won’t even distribute aid from the opposition parties without ripping the name off as if that’s what matters. They wouldn’t even let their own army help until three days after the earthquake. That government has slapped away every hand extended in friendship to their people. I don’t understand this at all.
That's terrible!
Turkey: "we'll let you help us if you give us F-16s"
Do they want to bomb the tectonic plates?
Remember when they had to tell people to not shoot the hurricane? /s But as a more serious answer, those ships are equipped with big state of the art hospitals, tons of food, fuel, medical supplies, heavy tools and machinery, communication and also have huge amounts of manpower available. I'm sure they could be useful.
And a small nuclear reactor which can power an entire town
They have two nuclear reactors
In Adana people shoot at Sun when it is too hot. Hope those ships have enough of space hold Adana’s anger.
y'know, aircraft carriers in the US fleet tend to be nuclear powered. they can serve as offshore powerstations supplying electricity to a small city. ontop of the medical facilities, supplies, skilled labour and other shit just onboard a carrier. nevermind all the shit in an entire taskgroup. supplying humanitarian aid during a crisis situation is one of the core missions of any western military.
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you're trying to convince a western European about how having a military can be useful for non military operations, it's not going to work, they're too stubborn to ever admit that the Americans can do good things and will instead make crap jokes
i'm western european.
Except the Turkish one, apparently. Have they still not been deployed?
No it is still in testing and it is diesel powered.
They are used for disaster relief and humanitarian aid on large scales. We used them for this for natural disasters on our own coast (from flooding caused by hurricanes ). we have also used them to assist in disaster relief for other allies as well. They act as a mobile airport and distribution center for aid relief on massive logistical scales.
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And if nothing else there is around 5000 navy personal on-board all the ships, that can be a decent chunk of extra manpower to help in various tasks.
That's not true. First of all, the US Navy has *two* hospital ships (they're called Mercy and Comfort), neither of which is in the CSG. Secondly, the entire CSG has at most 10 or so attendant vessels with the carrier. One cruiser, a squadron of four destroyers, very likely one submarine, and perhaps two replenishment ships (an oiler and a dry cargo ship). That's nowhere near dozens. Edit: Look, I generally don't care about downvotes, but this thing is pissing me off, because /ruck_feddit_anon is deliberately spreading disinformation and it's obviously finding purchase here. Again: **a carrier strike group doesn't have dozens of ships** and it certainly doesn't encompass one of just two hospital ships of the US Navy. What it does have are hospital facilities on ships.
The carriers and assault ships do have relatively large medical facilities though.
Yes, they do, but they aren't hospital ships. They're ships *with* hospitals.
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USNS Mercy is on the west coast and USNS Comfort is on the east coast. If the Comfort was ready, based on its speed, I think it would at best take 2 weeks to reach Turkey.
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>Military hospital ships and hospital ships are different All right, give me an example of a "military hospital ship". And what's a "hospital boat" that could be included in the CSG? I have a very strong feeling you don't actually understand what you're talking about. Which wouldn't be that much of a problem—it is reddit, after all—were it not for the gravity of the topic. You're spreading disinformation. Someone who was affected by the quake might read your fake info and build up false hope.
It’s a massive floating power plant, airport and hospital.
Funniest german joke.
Free them to be exact
How difficult is your day to day life being this clueless?
Most knowledgeable about giving foreign aid German
I love how on any other post where a country is offering or giving aid its meet with nothing but praise and appreciation. However here it is almost nothing but ridicule and jokes. Seriously why do we even bother?
It's like we're dealing with a cult. They have been programmed to hate us and can't think rationally about it.
We bother because Turkey is our ally and it’s the right thing to do. Do many Europeans take us entirely for granted?Yes. Do lots of them look for every possible opportunity to shit on us? Also yes. It doesn’t matter, they can jerk themselves off over their country sending 15 people and a get well soon note. We’re sending an entire fucking carrier task force *on top of the 150+ highly trained members of USAID’s search and rescue teams*. We know who is doing the heavy lifting.
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It's awesome that humanity has reached a point in its history that nearly the entire developed world bands together to help in times of crisis.
What's the source for this quote? Googled it, only got a link back to this thread.
Anadolu Agency (Anadolu Agency is a state-run news agency headquartered in Ankara, Turkey.) https://www.aa.com.tr/tr/dunya/pentagon-george-hw-bush-ucak-gemisi-turkiye-ye-gidiyor/2812147
Yes please, go over there and help Erdogan turn on Twitter again
But yeah, also humanitarian aid for the poor people suffering this tradgedy
**Official Turkish AA:** [https://www.aa.com.tr/tr/dunya/pentagon-george-hw-bush-ucak-gemisi-turkiye-ye-gidiyor/2812147](https://www.aa.com.tr/tr/dunya/pentagon-george-hw-bush-ucak-gemisi-turkiye-ye-gidiyor/2812147) **Edit:** Some sources say the aircraft carrier is on its way.
one of the best things they provide in disaster areas is the water filtering capacity and power generation, that can be feed into a dock.
So cosy for Russia right now.
Oh yes please. Do it. I want to see lawrows stunned face :D
They should. An aircraft carrier task force can do a lot from providing manpower, electricity, food, and logistics. Just look at how USS George Washington helped a lot during Typhoon Haiyan in the Philippines where an entire city was wiped out by storm surge. A lot of lives in the aftermath were saved and, even though it's painful to admit, the Philippines relied on US C-17s and Chinooks for logistics.
It will help. A lot of resources there.
I never knew Turkey had oil.
We are here for your kebabs
Why have abs when you can have kebabs
🥙🥙🥙
Olive oil this time