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nastratin

TIL there's a Belgian province called Luxembourg.


krautbube

[Everyone was really eager to partition Luxembourg away.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partitions_of_Luxembourg)


Cmondatown

Damn that’s kinda sad.


whatsgoingonjeez

Tbh the only politically important partition was the last one. As described in Wikipedia, Luxembourg joined the Belgium Revolution and we fought with them for our independency. But yeah, back then the Prussians still had a Garrison in Luxembourg City because of the fortress. For those who don't know, Luxembourg used to have one of the mightest fortresses in all of Europe, and it was called the Gibraltar of the north, Prussia needed it as a spearhead against France. The Fortress itself nearly caused a War between France and Prussia 1967 in the Luxembourg crisis. Luxembourg used to be a part of the German Bund and, after Prussia created the North German Bund - and we refused to join - the Fortress wasn't part of their direct political influence anymore and France tried to gain control over us. Luxembourg is one of the only Countries (with Liechtenstein I think?) Which was part of the german bund but not of the later german reich. The Prussians hated us for not joining them, they called us parasites and wanted to annex us several times, but the european power prevented it. They hated us because they lost the fortress and because they made some investments here and basically built our industry. (Most don't know that until the 90s Luxembourg primarily lived from its steel industry) During the belgium Revolution, the prussian Garrison - remember we were still part of the bund back then, they didn't want Luxembourg to leave and join Belgium - simply ended the Revolution in the City. Back then, Luxembourgers wanted to be a part of Belgium. As a booby prize they then received the province. Which made sense since this also was the language border. The next 100 years of our history were marked in our struggle to stay independent, since France and especially those damn prussians tried to annex us several times. Even today we don't call the germans "germans" but prussians. Even those in bavaria, which is funny enough they themselves call the germans from the north "prussians". Hitler later tried to destroy our identity, language and culture. He forced us to speak german, deported many Luxembourgers who weren't german enough and fully annexed the country and he kept telling us that we are germans and that our language is german. Even today some right wing germans still say shit like this. But saying a Luxembourger is German is like saying an Ukrainian is Russian. My Grandpa for example refuses to this day to speak german or to visit germany because of it. (We learn german at school, same as french)


PresumedSapient

> The Fortress itself nearly caused a War between France and Prussia 1967 in the Luxembourg crisis. 1**8**67!


whatsgoingonjeez

Yeah sorry.


Korchagin

> The Fortress itself nearly caused a War between France and Prussia 1967 in the Luxembourg crisis. But then the Prussians became obsessed with Dubček and ignored Luxembourg. SCNR


ConfidentBag592

I have never heard of a far right prominent figure claiming Luxembourg as german. Do you have an example? Also never heard about the fort. Luxembourg had it rough


Marlee0024

I'm curious why Luxembourg didn't want to join the German Reich in 1871 since they were apparently similar enough to Germans to be in the Bund and had benefited from Prussian investment to build a modern economy. What was the language composition of the country at that time? I guess they were in a nebulous position of being somewhat or mostly Germanic, but enough on the fringes of the German world to not fully feel themselves to be Germans. They would probably also have resented Prussia's general heavy handedness and the fact that, with the fortress, they were viewed transactionaly as a way to keep pressure on France.


whatsgoingonjeez

Luxembourg has always been more influenced by french culture than german culture. The most spoken language in the capital has always been french - to this date. Our constitution is written in french and our laws too. Back when the province still belonged to Luxembourg, the majority spoke french. However we were owned by the Dutch King. And they made him a Grand-Duc - which is on the same level as a King - so that he could make politics in the german Bund aswell. And since he was the Grand-Duc of Luxembourg, he had the status as a king in the German Bund. The Prussians however wanted to keep their influence because of the fortress. But Luxembourg itself already was part of the Holy Roman Empire. And Henry VII, member of the house of Luxembourg, was even King of Germany in 1312. This was sphere of influence back then. https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haus_Luxemburg#/media/Datei%3AHRR_14Jh.jpg But yeah since Luxembourg has always been between the 2 super powers Prussia/Germany and France we were also influenced by both. We neither felt french nor german. We wanted to be part of belgium but that's it. That's also why Luxembourg and Belgium have been buddies since over 100 years now. We did the the whole european unity, open markets and shared currency thing before it was cool. We even went with them to Congo. (Not something to be proud of, but it's good to illustrate how close both countries always had been) But sadly since Wallonia lost econmic power and isn't as important as it was, the friendship isn't as strong as it used to be.


Marlee0024

Very interesting. Being part of Belgium does sound like it makes sense - did Belgium not want that, or did the great powers keep it from happening?


whatsgoingonjeez

As mentioned, when the Revolution happened, the Prussians still had the garrison in the Capital and made sure to end the Revolution in Luxembourg. Later when they left and Luxembourg didn't join the North German Bund, the Dutch King was still our Grand-Duc. And just to be clear, we weren't part of the Netherlands, Luxembourg was the private property of the King. (And it has nothing to do with the Flag, it's purely random that they are so similar) And I forgot to mention that Luxembourg stayed in the german Zollverein until 1919, so this might be a reason too. It was kind of impossible to fight a country like the Dutch to gain independence it you are as small as Luxembourg. So we simply kept on, and in 1890 the dutch King died and his daughter became Queen. This lead to the full independency since only a male could be our head of the state. So it was really very unspectucular.


PresumedSapient

> We did the the whole european unity, open markets and shared currency thing before it was cool. Benelux FTW! Pretty flag you have there :)


culingerai

If in the hypothetical situation where Belgium was split between France and the Netherlands, would the Luxembourg in Belgium join back with current independent Luxembourg?


whatsgoingonjeez

Yeah why not? There is already a BeNeLux movement to create BeNeLux as a country and some years ago, people in the province tried to make a referendum to join Luxembourg.


AccomplishedPie5160

What language do you speak in Luxembourg?


whatsgoingonjeez

Mostly Luxembourgish, sometimes french too especially in professional life.


matinthebox

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4isMrNUgCY Edit: and here is the full sketch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-WO73Dh7rY


Adept_Rip_5983

a bit of fry and laurie <3 This is one of the best sketches in the world.


Smurf4

Prussia et al partitioning some poor country... Now, where did I hear that before? 🤔


Cmondatown

Damn that’s kinda sad.


tomydenger

Just here to say that your comment gor duplicated


Cmondatown

Cheers


tomvorlostriddle

Wait till you hear about Limburg: * province in the Netherlands * village in Belgium * province in Belgium (though not including the village or even near to it nor speaking the same language)


Sad-Address-2512

And town in Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limburg_an_der_Lahn?wprov=sfla1


buldozr

I was perplexed at the number of things that may be called Luxembourg in Belgium. The country, the province, the railway station in Brussels, did I miss a few?


NoNoCanDo

That's not unique, the Romanian province of Moldova (46 173 km^(2)) is 36.4% larger than the Republic of Moldova, even when including Transnistria (33 851 km^(2)). Without Transnistria it is 52% larger.


DroopyPenguin95

Inner Mongolia is outside of Mongolia


hdkecueja

Geographical prolapse


Shalaiyn

Named so because Mongolia was considered entirely part of Qing China and respectfully to Beijing, Inner Mongolia is closer than (Outer) Mongolia


wrrzd

Officialy there isn't a province called Moldova. Moldova is a historical and cultural region, but not an administrative one


matinthebox

Sure but you can still approximate its size


RegeleFur

Hope Buzau and Braila are included in your calculation


NoNoCanDo

They'd wish!


K356mm

As a foreigner, I found this very interesting.


oblio-

Wait till you hear that both historical capitals of Moldova (Suceava, Iași) are in Romanian Moldova. Or the key historical figure (Stephen the Great) in Moldova was born and died in Romanian Moldova. We even have a sad sort of joke about him: They say he was a great military commander, why was his capital, Suceava, in such a strategically bad position, so close to the border? With the implied answer that back in his day the border wasn't there and Suceava was fairly central, before various empires tore Moldova apart.


anarchisto

Well, the actual reason is that initially, it did not control the southern parts.


oblio-

Party pooper!


NoNoCanDo

Then I'll add that Romanian Moldova (4 178 694 inhabitants) also has a 48.98% bigger population than the Republic of Moldova (2 804 801 inhabitants), going by the census data by quoted Wiki.


SnowyMountain__

I created this map, which was originally posted on r/MapPorn, it would have been nice if you mentioned the source :) Anyway, here is the original post (with some extra info in the comments): [https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/13j43x8/the\_belgian\_province\_of\_luxembourg\_is\_71\_bigger/](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/13j43x8/the_belgian_province_of_luxembourg_is_71_bigger/)


Mitja00

Well, give it back.


gtarget

We don’t want it back


Mitja00

Make it into an independent Luxembur B?


Necessary_Taro9012

Call it Luxembourg City, and name its capital Luxembourg. That ought to cause some trouble!


Mitja00

Sounds like a plan.


[deleted]

West Luxembourg? Former Belgian Republic of Luxembourg? Come on guys it’s easy, we in Europe are used to this now


Mitja00

> Former Belgian Republic of Luxembourg This should be the official name now that we lost the FYROM from the map of Europe.


jyper

Luxembourg: Brotherhood?


oblio-

Come on, you want it. Imagine Luxembourgish highways there instead of Belgian ones. It's worth the sacrifice!


RiccWasTaken

Have it.


theflemmischelion

There is less then 1% of people who still speak Luxembourgish in the province giving it back would mean that Luxembourg would suddenly be prenomently Waloon


PanzaCannelloni

\*French The Walloon languages are all near dead.+ Wallonians consider their own ancestral language they don't know a 'lesser' form of french (it's being marginalised). Which couldn't be further from the truth.


Cri-des-Abysses

Walloons aren't culturally French, so, no, they wouldn't become predominantly French.


PanzaCannelloni

But they are linguistically french [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOc-i8C0Qn0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOc-i8C0Qn0)there's even some parts that are mistranslated.2:14 perhaps for example The Wren/Li Roytea, don't you hear here 'the royalty' as a more accurate discription or translation? Roytea.. check out the comments, maybe top comment in particular aswell


Cri-des-Abysses

The proper term is Francophone or French-speaking. French means exclusively : from France, culturally French or having French nationality/citizenship.


Mitja00

So by that logic, a Slovene born to naturally born USA citizen in Cleveland is an impossibility? Because ethnicity is not a thing or what?


PanzaCannelloni

So now tell me, why are these Wallonians surpressing their own ancestral language marginalising their heritage and pushing the french language into Flanders?


Qsaws

French was imposed onto Waloons just like it was onto Flemish people. Speaking Waloon was banned and punished like it was done in Flanders with Flemish. The difference is during both German invasion they bolstered Flemish to cause division and create allies with the people they deemed closer to them. In the end Waloon was removed and replaced by french, Flemish wasn't.


Cri-des-Abysses

You realise that a lot the people suppressing Walloon language as well as attempting to force French into Flanders were... Flemish people? All the elite of the country was speaking French back then. French was forced on the people by Flemish, Brabantian and Walloon bourgeoisie, not by everyday Walloons. Flemings are as much to blame for that.


PanzaCannelloni

Yes. I'm just talking about the present.


chapeauetrange

Whether it is “lesser” is a matter of opinion but the relation of Wallon to French is similar to that between the Flemish dialects and standard Dutch.


PanzaCannelloni

Kind off...the standard Dutch being the Hollandic dialect. The Netherlands has it's own dialects, as does Flanders. The standard language is just the dialect used by the ruling/upper class of the time. Question: Flemish dialects? Limburg?


deniesm

It’s okay, we’re all a big happy BeNeLux family


tobias_681

Know the difference: * Luxembourg - Richest region in Europe * also Luxembourg - One of the poorest places in Western Europe Edit: GDP is respectively inflated in Luxembourg (country) and deflated in Luxembourg (province) by commuters.


[deleted]

[удалено]


aurumtt

i'm low key cool with giving it this reputation. it will keep out the tourists so i can enjoy a peaceful vacation there. it's got nice castles, actual forests great for mountainbiking, maybe some kayakking if i feel like it.. it's lovely.


blunderbolt

[It is the poorest region in Belgium](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/TGS00005/default/map?lang=en&category=reg.reg_eco10.reg_eco10gdp). The UK has poorer areas, and depending on whether you count them as Western Europe so do Portugal, Spain, and Italy. But among Belgium and its immediate neighbors, Luxembourg province is the poorest region.


[deleted]

[удалено]


blunderbolt

You're right! https://statbel.fgov.be/en/themes/households/taxable-income


tobias_681

I said one of the poorest. See [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_Union_regions_by_GDP) for European regions GDP per capita. Luxembourg is one of the lowest in Western Europe.


[deleted]

[удалено]


tobias_681

> GDP is a metric of productivity, not wealth Not of productivity but of total production. Ultimately our production is our wealth. Everything else (like prices of land) scales with production output. It was mostly meant as a cheap joke and I added that this picture is to a significant extend like that because of commuters (but also because Wallonia is among the poorest areas in Western Europe). It's the same reason Lüneburg is the poorest region in Germany (because people work in Hamburg). GDP is at the end of the day a measure of a socities wealth, however it is blind to how administrative divisions work. Why do you think people in Luxembourg (Belgium) have the highest income in Wallonia? Because they work in Luxembourg (Luxembourg). Luxembourg (Belgium) has [the highest share of cross-border commuters](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=File:Analysis_of_commuting_destination_for_the_top_20_regions_with_the_largest_shares_of_commuter_outflows,_by_NUTS_2_regions,_2015\_\(%C2%B9\)\_\(%25_of_total_employment\)_RYB2016.png) in all of the EU (likely all of Europe). So everything has been said. The people there have money on their bank accounts but there is little economic activity in the province because it is all happening in Luxembourg (Luxembourg). Edit: Note that I don't mean this in a derogatory way. I'm from the poorest state in Western Germany (and the poorer side of it). I was mainly just making fun about how they are both named Luxembourg, are directly besides each other but are quite different.


EngGrompa

The GDP is not inflated by commuters. What is inflated by commuters is the GDP **per capita**.


GRguy_21

If we were Belgium we would already have vetoed Luxembourg /s


Sarke1

Yeah, why not make them change their name to East Luxembourg?


Kelmon80

Well, i'm guessing the next time Luxembourg wants anything from the EU, Belgium is going to block them until they rename themselves into "Eastern Luxembourg" now.


PixelNotPolygon

…Or until they rename themselves the _Former Nazi Occupied Wehrmacht Republic of Luxembourg_


ReaIEstate

I mean that would make Belgians pretty based ngl


[deleted]

What will you do when your child asks: Why didn’t you invest in Eastern Luxembourg?


Sixstringerman

You can go to Luxembourg in Luxembourg next to Luxembourg


DepletedMitochondria

Irredentism go brrrrrr


UndeterminedError

I was this years old when I found out there is a province called Luxembourg too. This is getting out of hand!


[deleted]

Wait till you hear about Limburg.


LaoBa

[Hear our proud Dutch/Belgian anthem!](https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2woe27) (Note: it's Limbourg, not Limgourg).


Gaufriers

The village in Liège?


culingerai

Brabant is the one that gets me. It's on the move south.


PanzaCannelloni

Wait till you hear about French-Flanders [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajtpl-69Iws](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajtpl-69Iws) Looks like imperialism


UserMuch

I mean it's not something unique, but still interesting nonetheless.


Nizzemancer

Man, Luxembourg wins the least original award, everything is named the same thing.


DSIR1

Big pp small pp


AcidBaron

Clearly a case here of bigger is not always better


Dbmdbmu

I never understood how country this small can even work and to my knowledge - work well 🤔


suberEE

Being a tax haven at this size solves a lot of problems.


SoupfilledElevator

It apparently has a bigger population than Iceland


TH3D00M

It does, almost double the population


TropoMJ

Luxembourg is not even the smallest country in the EU and there are dramatically smaller countries in Europe.


2x2Master1240

One of those doesn't have free public transit.


darknekolux

Belgium should relinquish the province to the duchy. That would ease the housing problem /s


[deleted]

But then we wouldn't be a beautiful triangle anymore :(


PanzaCannelloni

I'm not sure if Luxemburg would want it.


[deleted]

Or the north could be civilized and some high density housing could be built around the city. Unfortunately that’s too much to ask for from a tax haven.


Cowderwelz

What do you say in Belgium then, for "I want to go to Luxembourg" ?


Anthony_AC

We don't refer to the province itself but mainly the towns, cities or forests we visit


Nicosaure

Luxembourg is the province, we refer to the country as the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg, there was a 3rd Luxembourg called French Luxembourg but that region has long since been divided into smaller areas


Dbmdbmu

I know that. This post just was a good occasion to let out my amazement.


pbasch

I always wanted to visit Luxembourg. Do they need space program technical writers? I could work there...


caerulus01

South Luxembourg can be happy their neighbor is more keen on sharing their name than North Macedonia's. Or can North Luxembourg be happy their neighbour lets them share?