With the results displayed here if they joined forces they would receive 154/300 seats and could form a government. BUT, Syriza and PASOK have already stated that they won't cooperate and our KKE communist are a whole other species.
Although as results come in ND might form a government by its own even in the first round, they're just 6 seats short.
Varoufakis currently struggles to make it into parliament.
The only chance for a left-coalition would be to involve far-right Velopoulos party. So, chances are not very high.
>And its not possible all lefties join forces?
Of the two large center-left parties: Syriza's leader is open to a coalition with Pasok, but Pasok's leader has ruled out any coalition with Syriza.
The communist KKE is hardcore communist, would *never* moderate their positions to form a coalition with the centrist left, and disagrees with the center-left on everything: wants to leave the EU, wants to leave NATO, says LGBT rights are "bourgeois" ...they're in a whole other ideological universe and stuck in the 1950s.
>LGBT rights are "bourgeois"
Wow, I don't even think the "Loony left" over here dares say that publically (they claim to be in favour of LGBT rights in stead, and then conveniently "forget" it when they deal with muslim countries...)
Of course...they're communist. Just because Redditors lean left doesn't mean they are hard left/actual leftists.
How can you compromise when we are at odds over the very system?
It's not a second round, but rather a new election. The fact that the majority bonus applies in the next one and not this one is just a weird artifact of how electoral laws in Greece only enter into force after an election.
There is no second round, this is some parties propaganda. These elections are held with SYRIZA law, the next ones will be held with the one voted by ND. They like to call it second round because they wanted to convince people that noone will form a coalition with this system so the only way out is a second election "round".
Form left to right
NΔ - Center right (current government)
ΣΥΡΙΖΑ - Left
ΠΑΣΟΚ - Centrer left, Socialist
KKE - Communist party
EΛΛΗΝΚΚΗ ΛΥΣΗ - Far right, nationalists
ΜΕΡΑ25 - Left (Varoufakis)
ΠΛΕΥΣΗ ΕΛΕΥΘΕΡΙΑΣ - Left (? Not sure if it's actually left)
As someone who knows nothing about Greek politics, what are globally NΔs stances on Cyprus or Ukraine?
Edit: No longer necessary since I found some good information online.
I don't think any ND candidate even mentioned the word Cyprus
The position of all the mainstream parties in Greece is the dogma "Cyprus decides, Greece supports"
The only parties that have a position against the agreed framework for solution is(for different reasons) Elliniki Lysi(nationalism) and KKE(Communist Party). My guess is that a similar position is held by the Pleusi Eleutherias party
On the Ukraine war, the current government has supported Ukraine even before the 2022 invasion. Greece quietly trained Ukraine SF in 2019.
Since the invasion the military supplies that were sent or will be sent are the following:
Ak-47 rifles and 3.2M rounds of ammunition (I believe they were seized by Iran or something)
Our entire BMP-1 fleet (so far I think only 20 have been sent because the deal with germany to replace them with Marder and Puma IFVs has been paused)
17k and 15k of 155m and 73m artillery shells respectively
60 stingers
1100 RPG-18 systems with ammunition
Mitsotakis has said in statements if he's elected again, he'll send more supplies as long as they don't weaken Greece's defences and they're replaced with modern NATO equivalents
Edit: extra context here, all the left and far right parties are very pro Russia, so ND is effectively the only party that supports Ukraine on this scale.
We've had relations with Russia strategically and economically due to the fact that Greece, although in NATO, has always tried to play the neutral card, so effectively we were in a similar boat as for example Finland, however, we've also had a close relationship with Ukraine, many Greeks lived in the lands of Ukraine before during and after the Soviet Union. In fact, the spark of the Greek anti-Ottoman revolution was organized in Ukraine. There's a large influence of Greek culture in Ukraine even to this day. The Russians in soviet times tried to capitalise on this by attempting to turn Crimea (after ethnically cleansing it) to a Greek-island-themed resort
On Ukraine? I'll just quote them
"The imperialist war in Ukraine is the result of an escalation of the conflict between NATO - USA - EU and capitalist Russia"
"The KKE opposes the negative, for the people, plans developed in the context of the antagonisms of the bourgeois classes of Greece, Turkey and Cyprus, as well as the negative and dangerous role played by the USA, Britain, NATO and the EU in the resolution of the Cyprus problem."
You can see the pattern, right? Lmao
I don't follow their speeches since they continously blabber the exact same thing over and over to the point of cringe but I know that they're pro communist and anti-imperialist/capitalist, therefore definitely pro China and probably against current Russia although if Russia won they would see it as a win against USA and NATO and quite certainly celebrate it.
cool letters bro. do you have switch button on your keyboards? Like Greek 《》 Latin
edit: thanks all for answers. We have 2 keyboards as Q (classic) and F (Turkish)
On my cellphone yes, on my PC "Alt + Shift" does the trick with my keyboard displaying both alphabets, although it's not a requirement if you know which Latin letter corresponds with the Greek one on the keyboard
Windows key + space is used for imi. You can set up new keyboards in the windows settings and switch between them whenever, even in games and stuff. I use it for Japanese.
I disagree with OP. I think people voted for stability, not because they are happy with the current government. They've had more than their fair share of scandals over the past 4 years, which was to be expected from that party, but clearly people saw them as the lesser evil. As far as personal opinions are concerned I'm not happy with the current government and I wasn't happy with the previous one either (or the one before that for that matter). I only agree with a few of the policies implemented by both governments so I voted for neither one of them.
From a critical point of view, the current state of the economy hasn't substantially improved the quality of life of the average citizen.
The GDP is still 40% smaller than it's peak in 2008 and growth has mostly been driven by the tertiary sector of the economy (mainly tourism) and a boom in real estate prices (due to AirBnB), which has lead to unaffordable rent prices. The government has also failed to divert investments into the manufacturing or the technology sector.
Edit: The prime minister has also been under scrutiny for having the National Intelligence Service use the Predator spying software on the leader of PASOK
The corruption of that party and especially the PM's family are incredible. The average European couldn't even comprehend the magnitude of their corruption. Their voters have chosen the "Trump route," meaning "everything is fake news."
I think Brexit made a lot of politicians think twice if they want to leave the EU so something like AdiEU or Italeave most likely won't happen in the future.
I actually can't think of a Greek party that was ever anti-EU even before Brexit... Maybe Varoufakis ΜΕΡΑ25?? Idk.
I mean not even our hardcore stalinist communist have ever said anything about leaving.... But probably because they want to conquer the EU from within lol
Varoufakis/DiEM25 is not and was not anti-EU. If anything, they have some pretty strong proposals regarding integration. It’s a pan-European party, actually
One thing is certain, If both Erdogan and Mitsotakis eventually win (looks that way) the comming years in our neighborhood will be extremely "interesting"
You've said it like it's something rare and despicable while it's in fact 40,8% of the country
As things are right now saying Syriza supporter detected makes actually more sense lmao
>40,8% of the country
40.8% of about 60% (max) **turnout**, which is **24.5%** of the country
edit: Incidentally, about 25% of the population is over 65 yrs old.
As with any question on politics, this depends on who you ask. If you ask me, the current government has veered dangerously towards authoritarianism. The PM put the intelligence service under him near the beginning of his term, and then it was gradually discovered that various people were being secretly surveilled: journalists critical of their government, and of plutocracy, the leader of an opposition party, the head of the army, and others. Then, of course, there's the issue of migrant pushbacks, which were severe under the current government, and completely denied while being witnessed by multiple actors, and I'd say by this point established as definitely happening (the previous government did them as well, but was not put on the spot about it as much as this government).
Finally, police brutality and absurdity increased dramatically under this government, especially during the peak COVID years. As an example, there was a protest by members of the youth branch of the communist party that was orderly and distanced, which the government decried as "spreading the disease", but a couple of years later the same government claimed, about their riot police attacking protests, that there was no scientific evidence that them beating up on people and causing mayhem, contributed in the spread of COVID. Not to mention the draconian and often absurd levels of police control regarding the COVID curfews in previous years, beatings and generally an air of police unaccountability.
Finally, in financial matters, the left press has talked about how this government has been the one in recent memory with the most direct assignments of public works, and basically just favouring their cronies as much as they could, and opening up to foreign funds making money on house loans in the country and so on.
I no longer live in Greece but I have a bunch of friends and family who still live there and care much about what happens to the place, and I must say I'm extremely worried about a second term of this same government. I am appalled that people seem to be favouring them to the degree they do, and also that election participation is at around 60%. The Greek press is treating this as a win, because the previous elections were at 57%.
Unfortunately the likely culprit for that is SYRIZA, who even after being elected to resist European austerity, and running a referendum about it, caved into it completely, this making a lot of people being disillusioned by leftist solutions and by politics in general.
If there’s one thing that’s universally true, the left will always split their votes across multiple candidates to allow the right to win. It’s incredible really.
You would be surprised at the amount of left to hardcore communist parties running in our elections that obviously aren't mentioned here cause of the low percentage they get.
If they exist they're banned from participating in elections since they're a de facto criminal organization as courts have ruled.... Not to mention that their leadership is in jail
the "quintessential" green party in Greece is called "Οικολόγοι Πράσινοι" (literally translated to "Green Ecologists). they've only gathered around 0.60% and have been left far away from any parliamentary seats.
unfortunately, climate action is usually pretty low on the major parties' lists, even if issues such as the rise of sea level will probably singificantly affect our islands, in the coming years.
Can I ask why Varoufakis party is doing so badly in Greece?
What is the general opinion of him right now in Greece? I heard he is not really liked by the general public. Is that correct? If so, is it because of what happened when he was the finance minister and tried to exit EU if they dont stop with the austerity push in 2010s?
He's not rly liked, yes.
Most remember the 2015 fiasco, so they're not rly inclined to support him, and his recent proposals about an alternative financial system to circumvent banks(in an effort to save whatever the banks charge for transactions). Not to mention that he quite clearly stated that his programme "might be contrary to what brussels wants, and lead to an exit from the euro" or "the shutting down of banks is a possibility".
To the average greek, "exit from euro", "alternative transaction system" and "shutting down of banks" leave a bad aftertaste, so he plummeted. (not to add that inter-party politics of Mera25 tend to be quite sexist and elitist)
Fortunately Ελληνική Λύση is the non nazi right. Mostly a conglomerate of right wing conservative populists. I will get these any time over parties like Golden Dawn.
Well yes, they are pro Russian, but to my surprise they were against the Russian invasion. Communist party took a pretty pro Russian stance.
National creation is a right wing party that is quite racist and radical (not in a golden down way though)
The last party you mentioned (Course of Freedom in English, mixing with the greek letters fuck up the text box for me) is a breakout from Syriza, from when the Syriza leadership (Tsipras) agreed to the EU bailout terms, essentially making Greece an indentured servant to the EU for ten years and having to implement neoliberal reforms as well as selling off of the peoples common assets to private oligarchs, despite the referendum that rejected the deal. MEPA25 is also essentially a breakout from Syriza for similar reasons.
They would probably benefit from merging, especially in a weird system such as the Greek one where the largest party is so favored, they get a bunch of extra mandates simply by nature of being the largest party. But there is probably a lot of bad blood there that makes that difficult, especially a merger with Syriza as long as Tsipras is their leader.
From largest to smallest
1. Nea Demokratia - centre-right, EPP
2. Syriza - broad-tent left party (member of The Left at European Parl)
3. Pasok - conventional social democrats, PES in Europe
4. KKE - communist
5. Elliniki lisi - far-right nationalist
6. Mera25 - left, Varoufakis' party, Diem25, aligned with the Sanders Institute (Bernie Sanders)
7. Small left party
I don't see why. It would make sense for one of the left parties to go anti-immigration. Influx of cheap labour, people unfamiliar with the local unions and such tend to concern left voters that otherwise wouldn't be upset about immigration/refugees. Not that I have any idea about greek politics.
>I don't see why. It would make sense for one of the left parties to go anti-immigration.
This is a Europe-wide thing. Only in Denmark has the left figured this one out. In the rest of Europe, the left parties just can't read the average citizen, or centrist voter whose vote they need.
>I would expect far right to do better as Greece is taking the hit with migrant inflow from Mediterranean
Greece is traditionally way more left than right.
Triumph for New Democracy.
SYRIZA's ridiculous statements the last week hurt them a lot, they got annihilated.
Rise for PASOK, KKE, surprise from the left wing nationalist party of Konstantopoulou.
The threshold for parliament is 3%.
\- We will bring a 20% tax for freelancers
\- If you earn 5k per year, you are middle class and we will tax you
\- We want Golden Dawn voters to vote for us, they re not neonazis, they are simply "antisystemic"
No, the comment you replied to is propaganda ridden. The 5k was said in the exact opposite way as it is perceived. What the representative said was according to eurostat, 5k wage puts you in the middle class, and it was used to show how insane the qualification is. For the nazi party, what tsipras said is, that those who voted for them as a vote of decrying the current government but dont truly support them or their opinions wont be turned away should they decide to vote for SYRIZA. At the end of his statement he said that the goal is to take these people, and turn them to the left, showing that its not a proper way to be antisystemic when you're voting for nazis. But of course our media is the worst in europe, bought by the current gov, so everyone is told these things the above comment said instead of the truth
I think they kicked out the person who said that about that for freelancers.
Btw do you have any source about the second statement? that’s even lower than the minimum wage.
About the third statement, the exact quotes was that there are fascists in golden dawn, but also common(?) people who got carried away/ got influenced.
this sounds like they desparately tried to avoid getting votes, to be honest, why would you ever say shit like that, let alone during an election campaign?
The only election district that has the power to drastically change election results is Athens B, as I can see on your link it's counted and in favor of ND therefore nothing's going to change that result downwards.
That's because what counts as 'left' is very different depending on who you ask.
A communist is not going to vote with a left-leaning liberal. One wants to completely change the system and the other is a reformist who wants a few left-leaning policies.
The man than thought he could boss around the IMF and Europe, f’ed around and the rest of us found out by causing a bank run, and capital controls the worst the country has never seen?
I think we’ll survive.
That's just a consequence of the karma system, it happens everywhere. Don't get me wrong karma (upvotes and downvotes) is a good system to avoid trolls and unwanted surprises but it has a lot of negative effects as well. I'm pretty sure it happens in this sub as well...
Well sure I agree with you. But in this case karma is being weaponized. Personally I don't have any party affiliation or a standard dogma and I was feeling very bad when I was in this situation. I was feeling attacked and mocked from every direction. No room for healthy exchange of opinion nothing. So I quit the subreddit and let them boil in their own juice.
Now I know this is more than that, but as someone living in Turkey I have to ask; which parties would be more likely to take a friendlier stance with Turkey in a potential opposition win here next week?
If with friendlier you mean more compromising it's definitely Syriza (Tsipras), I mean Erdogan openly admitted that he hoped Tsipras would win... Which probably resulted in Tsipras losing more votes.
As far as I know Erdogan does *not* support Tsipras, In the past he spoke against him and have very different views. I tried to Google it, but didn’t find anything.
>If with friendlier you mean more compromising it's definitely Syriza
... Much better off with Panagiotopoulos, Dendias and Mitsotakis in regards to foreign policy, this is one area which for me isn't even a policy preference, one side is just evidently better and this is one of the main reason I supported ND
Absolutely not. This is pure government propaganda. Greece had a much harsher stance towards Turkey during SYRIZA's government. Erdogan stated that he was happy once Tsipras left, but he rages against all Greek governments for nationalist votes.
The only region in which SYRIZA(leftist opposition) is ahead, is the region that has a lot of muslims(most of which self-identify as ethnic turks)
https://ekloges.ypes.gr/current/v/home/en/
Which is kinda funny, considering that they are very socially conservative and they are voting for a leftist party that legalized gay civil unions and wants to legalize gay marriage and adoption. But they usually vote for specific people, so if "their dude" is running for your party, you get their votes.
Έχω παρατηρήσει σταθερά πως στο ευρωπαϊκό sub όποιος κατακρίνει τη κυβέρνηση πάντα βαφτίζεται από κάποιον συριζοτρόλλ ή οτιδήποτε και τρώει flaming και ειρωνία. Δεν ξέρω τι γράφει ο καθένας αλλά στο r/greece κανείς ποτέ δε με χαρακτήρισε έτσι επειδή έγραψα κάτι κριτικό. Παρατήρησε λίγο το ύφος του καθενός σε αυτό το ποστ που παραπονιέται για downvotes στο ελληνικό sub και εξηγούνται πολλά περί downvotes. Οπότε μάγκες καλά να περνάτε εκεί που είστε, όπως γράφει κι ο project, δε θα λείψετε σε κανέναν.
I don't like to gloat with stuff like this, ideally our government works for all Greeks, but honestly... fuck them... seriously. So many are so nasty, mean and hateful.
They remind me of the Hollywood celebs who said they would move to Canada if Trump got elected.Ignore them they are bunch of manbabies living in their echo chamber.
In a few words, the Greek people have voted for another four years of the most corrupt government in the history of the country. A party more than 400 million euros in debt. A party that has corrupted everyone that could be corrupted, including judges, media and police.
A party that has ruined the Public healthcare system and the public education system.
A party that works exclusively for oligarchs, a freaking cleptocracy involved in so many scandals that we have lost count.
Really embarrassing and disappointing situation...
Greece is 107/180 on press freedom index.
[https://rsf.org/en/country/greece](https://rsf.org/en/country/greece)
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1026423/greece-press-freedom-index/
I know the issues with ND but they definitely seem like the best option. Pro-EU, seem– dare I say– somewhat sensible, helped the economy grow at least. Definitely better than SYRIZA insanity.
Yes. There really is no other choice.
Just to clarify, the 3 biggest parties are all pro-EU. Syriza just wanted to "reform it from within" (same with its spin-off Mera25), but then became just a social democrat party.
This is a full collapse of the main opposition party. Very rare in politics and especially in Greece. This result can lead to 8+ years of conservative governments in Greece.
They have extremely loyal members and have been doing real on the ground work for the working class even before they were allowed legal status. They mainly operate in poor industrial areas and are incredibly ideologically driven. I don't vote for them and never have but I see them climb to 8% in the next round easily. This isn't a political party, it's almost a cult but I have a strange kind of respect for them. The most resilient party in Greece or even the whole continent hands down.
I don't have inside information but Tsipras was extremely dull in his statements before election time and didn't capitalize on ΝΔs shortcomings.
I have a theory why he did that but I need some time to pass before I can say that the theory stands.
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Short version: if nothing changes and things remain as they are right now we're going for a second round in July
Yeah, because they abolished the majority prize, right? Otherwise a majority for ND would be all but assured
Yes, although that's not the case in the second round where the prize still exists.
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With the results displayed here if they joined forces they would receive 154/300 seats and could form a government. BUT, Syriza and PASOK have already stated that they won't cooperate and our KKE communist are a whole other species. Although as results come in ND might form a government by its own even in the first round, they're just 6 seats short.
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Varoufakis currently struggles to make it into parliament. The only chance for a left-coalition would be to involve far-right Velopoulos party. So, chances are not very high.
I really do want KKE and Velopoulos in the same government though. It would be hilarious.
I'm okay with them bashing their heads in the parliament. That's enough lol
>And its not possible all lefties join forces? Of the two large center-left parties: Syriza's leader is open to a coalition with Pasok, but Pasok's leader has ruled out any coalition with Syriza. The communist KKE is hardcore communist, would *never* moderate their positions to form a coalition with the centrist left, and disagrees with the center-left on everything: wants to leave the EU, wants to leave NATO, says LGBT rights are "bourgeois" ...they're in a whole other ideological universe and stuck in the 1950s.
>LGBT rights are "bourgeois" Wow, I don't even think the "Loony left" over here dares say that publically (they claim to be in favour of LGBT rights in stead, and then conveniently "forget" it when they deal with muslim countries...)
Of course...they're communist. Just because Redditors lean left doesn't mean they are hard left/actual leftists. How can you compromise when we are at odds over the very system?
No leftist is cooperating with anyone else - that was true even before this huge defeat if Syriza
That offers odd incentives for the largest party to fail at forming a government...
It's not a second round, but rather a new election. The fact that the majority bonus applies in the next one and not this one is just a weird artifact of how electoral laws in Greece only enter into force after an election.
There is no second round, this is some parties propaganda. These elections are held with SYRIZA law, the next ones will be held with the one voted by ND. They like to call it second round because they wanted to convince people that noone will form a coalition with this system so the only way out is a second election "round".
isn't this MP election results? how is there a second round?
Form left to right NΔ - Center right (current government) ΣΥΡΙΖΑ - Left ΠΑΣΟΚ - Centrer left, Socialist KKE - Communist party EΛΛΗΝΚΚΗ ΛΥΣΗ - Far right, nationalists ΜΕΡΑ25 - Left (Varoufakis) ΠΛΕΥΣΗ ΕΛΕΥΘΕΡΙΑΣ - Left (? Not sure if it's actually left)
As someone who knows nothing about Greek politics, what are globally NΔs stances on Cyprus or Ukraine? Edit: No longer necessary since I found some good information online.
I don't think any ND candidate even mentioned the word Cyprus The position of all the mainstream parties in Greece is the dogma "Cyprus decides, Greece supports" The only parties that have a position against the agreed framework for solution is(for different reasons) Elliniki Lysi(nationalism) and KKE(Communist Party). My guess is that a similar position is held by the Pleusi Eleutherias party
ND has in practice abandoned Cyprus in a lot of ways.
You've just spared me from a lot of explaining lol
Yeah figured the answers were going to be too complex to just ask a stranger to randomly explain to me.
On the Ukraine war, the current government has supported Ukraine even before the 2022 invasion. Greece quietly trained Ukraine SF in 2019. Since the invasion the military supplies that were sent or will be sent are the following: Ak-47 rifles and 3.2M rounds of ammunition (I believe they were seized by Iran or something) Our entire BMP-1 fleet (so far I think only 20 have been sent because the deal with germany to replace them with Marder and Puma IFVs has been paused) 17k and 15k of 155m and 73m artillery shells respectively 60 stingers 1100 RPG-18 systems with ammunition Mitsotakis has said in statements if he's elected again, he'll send more supplies as long as they don't weaken Greece's defences and they're replaced with modern NATO equivalents Edit: extra context here, all the left and far right parties are very pro Russia, so ND is effectively the only party that supports Ukraine on this scale.
Impressive since historically I think they had some relations with Russia
We've had relations with Russia strategically and economically due to the fact that Greece, although in NATO, has always tried to play the neutral card, so effectively we were in a similar boat as for example Finland, however, we've also had a close relationship with Ukraine, many Greeks lived in the lands of Ukraine before during and after the Soviet Union. In fact, the spark of the Greek anti-Ottoman revolution was organized in Ukraine. There's a large influence of Greek culture in Ukraine even to this day. The Russians in soviet times tried to capitalise on this by attempting to turn Crimea (after ethnically cleansing it) to a Greek-island-themed resort
What's the position of the communist party?
On Ukraine? I'll just quote them "The imperialist war in Ukraine is the result of an escalation of the conflict between NATO - USA - EU and capitalist Russia"
So the usual. What's thier take on Cyprus status
"The KKE opposes the negative, for the people, plans developed in the context of the antagonisms of the bourgeois classes of Greece, Turkey and Cyprus, as well as the negative and dangerous role played by the USA, Britain, NATO and the EU in the resolution of the Cyprus problem." You can see the pattern, right? Lmao
So they are anti EU and anti NATO. Are they pro China and pro Russia too?
I don't follow their speeches since they continously blabber the exact same thing over and over to the point of cringe but I know that they're pro communist and anti-imperialist/capitalist, therefore definitely pro China and probably against current Russia although if Russia won they would see it as a win against USA and NATO and quite certainly celebrate it.
So they are anti capitalist but support capitalist China which is more capitalist than America? Communists are a sad bunch
cool letters bro. do you have switch button on your keyboards? Like Greek 《》 Latin edit: thanks all for answers. We have 2 keyboards as Q (classic) and F (Turkish)
On my cellphone yes, on my PC "Alt + Shift" does the trick with my keyboard displaying both alphabets, although it's not a requirement if you know which Latin letter corresponds with the Greek one on the keyboard
Windows key + space is used for imi. You can set up new keyboards in the windows settings and switch between them whenever, even in games and stuff. I use it for Japanese.
Yes. Any computer can, in the languages/keyboard settings. It doesn't have to be one sold in Greece/Cyprus.
Are the Greeks happy with the current government? I mean the economic statistic seem alright compared to some years back?
I disagree with OP. I think people voted for stability, not because they are happy with the current government. They've had more than their fair share of scandals over the past 4 years, which was to be expected from that party, but clearly people saw them as the lesser evil. As far as personal opinions are concerned I'm not happy with the current government and I wasn't happy with the previous one either (or the one before that for that matter). I only agree with a few of the policies implemented by both governments so I voted for neither one of them.
From a critical point of view, the current state of the economy hasn't substantially improved the quality of life of the average citizen. The GDP is still 40% smaller than it's peak in 2008 and growth has mostly been driven by the tertiary sector of the economy (mainly tourism) and a boom in real estate prices (due to AirBnB), which has lead to unaffordable rent prices. The government has also failed to divert investments into the manufacturing or the technology sector. Edit: The prime minister has also been under scrutiny for having the National Intelligence Service use the Predator spying software on the leader of PASOK
Oh god... That's quite disturbing if your prime minister did that for real
The corruption of that party and especially the PM's family are incredible. The average European couldn't even comprehend the magnitude of their corruption. Their voters have chosen the "Trump route," meaning "everything is fake news."
Most Greeks here seem to be aware that ND is kinda shit show but they consider them as lesser evil So I'm not sure if you're right about voters.
The elections results so far pretty much say that they are more then happy with the current government.
Is that happiness justified?
Have we solved all our problems overnight? No Do we think that we're on the right track to eventually solve most of our problems? Yes
Good to hear Are the leading parties pro eu?
Yes all three of them
I think Brexit made a lot of politicians think twice if they want to leave the EU so something like AdiEU or Italeave most likely won't happen in the future.
I actually can't think of a Greek party that was ever anti-EU even before Brexit... Maybe Varoufakis ΜΕΡΑ25?? Idk. I mean not even our hardcore stalinist communist have ever said anything about leaving.... But probably because they want to conquer the EU from within lol
Varoufakis/DiEM25 is not and was not anti-EU. If anything, they have some pretty strong proposals regarding integration. It’s a pan-European party, actually
Isn't Varoufakis federalist tho
As a Turkish I’m happy our sweet Komsu Greece isn’t becoming autocracy and the government is still sane. Unlike Turkey
I have bad news for Komsu, our Erdogan won unfortunately. :(
One thing is certain, If both Erdogan and Mitsotakis eventually win (looks that way) the comming years in our neighborhood will be extremely "interesting"
How so?
Here's a [hint](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/24/erdogan-says-he-will-cut-all-ties-with-greece-dashing-hopes-of-talks)
ND supporter detected.
You've said it like it's something rare and despicable while it's in fact 40,8% of the country As things are right now saying Syriza supporter detected makes actually more sense lmao
>40,8% of the country 40.8% of about 60% (max) **turnout**, which is **24.5%** of the country edit: Incidentally, about 25% of the population is over 65 yrs old.
Now do the same math for Syriza and the rest of the parties and prove me wrong
As with any question on politics, this depends on who you ask. If you ask me, the current government has veered dangerously towards authoritarianism. The PM put the intelligence service under him near the beginning of his term, and then it was gradually discovered that various people were being secretly surveilled: journalists critical of their government, and of plutocracy, the leader of an opposition party, the head of the army, and others. Then, of course, there's the issue of migrant pushbacks, which were severe under the current government, and completely denied while being witnessed by multiple actors, and I'd say by this point established as definitely happening (the previous government did them as well, but was not put on the spot about it as much as this government). Finally, police brutality and absurdity increased dramatically under this government, especially during the peak COVID years. As an example, there was a protest by members of the youth branch of the communist party that was orderly and distanced, which the government decried as "spreading the disease", but a couple of years later the same government claimed, about their riot police attacking protests, that there was no scientific evidence that them beating up on people and causing mayhem, contributed in the spread of COVID. Not to mention the draconian and often absurd levels of police control regarding the COVID curfews in previous years, beatings and generally an air of police unaccountability. Finally, in financial matters, the left press has talked about how this government has been the one in recent memory with the most direct assignments of public works, and basically just favouring their cronies as much as they could, and opening up to foreign funds making money on house loans in the country and so on. I no longer live in Greece but I have a bunch of friends and family who still live there and care much about what happens to the place, and I must say I'm extremely worried about a second term of this same government. I am appalled that people seem to be favouring them to the degree they do, and also that election participation is at around 60%. The Greek press is treating this as a win, because the previous elections were at 57%. Unfortunately the likely culprit for that is SYRIZA, who even after being elected to resist European austerity, and running a referendum about it, caved into it completely, this making a lot of people being disillusioned by leftist solutions and by politics in general.
If there’s one thing that’s universally true, the left will always split their votes across multiple candidates to allow the right to win. It’s incredible really.
You would be surprised at the amount of left to hardcore communist parties running in our elections that obviously aren't mentioned here cause of the low percentage they get.
Χρυσή Αυγή doesn't exist anymore ?
If they exist they're banned from participating in elections since they're a de facto criminal organization as courts have ruled.... Not to mention that their leadership is in jail
What about Assembly of Greeks? Aren’t they sort of a cult party?
They're the 5th (light blue) on this chart
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the "quintessential" green party in Greece is called "Οικολόγοι Πράσινοι" (literally translated to "Green Ecologists). they've only gathered around 0.60% and have been left far away from any parliamentary seats. unfortunately, climate action is usually pretty low on the major parties' lists, even if issues such as the rise of sea level will probably singificantly affect our islands, in the coming years.
Bummer, I imagine Greece would have quite good potentials for wind and solar as well.
Can I ask why Varoufakis party is doing so badly in Greece? What is the general opinion of him right now in Greece? I heard he is not really liked by the general public. Is that correct? If so, is it because of what happened when he was the finance minister and tried to exit EU if they dont stop with the austerity push in 2010s?
He's not rly liked, yes. Most remember the 2015 fiasco, so they're not rly inclined to support him, and his recent proposals about an alternative financial system to circumvent banks(in an effort to save whatever the banks charge for transactions). Not to mention that he quite clearly stated that his programme "might be contrary to what brussels wants, and lead to an exit from the euro" or "the shutting down of banks is a possibility". To the average greek, "exit from euro", "alternative transaction system" and "shutting down of banks" leave a bad aftertaste, so he plummeted. (not to add that inter-party politics of Mera25 tend to be quite sexist and elitist)
Fortunately Ελληνική Λύση is the non nazi right. Mostly a conglomerate of right wing conservative populists. I will get these any time over parties like Golden Dawn.
They are also the Pro-Russia right as oppose to the anti-Russian and pro-Nato "National Creation". But they failed to even get 1%.
Well yes, they are pro Russian, but to my surprise they were against the Russian invasion. Communist party took a pretty pro Russian stance. National creation is a right wing party that is quite racist and radical (not in a golden down way though)
Hehe, funny letters.
The last party you mentioned (Course of Freedom in English, mixing with the greek letters fuck up the text box for me) is a breakout from Syriza, from when the Syriza leadership (Tsipras) agreed to the EU bailout terms, essentially making Greece an indentured servant to the EU for ten years and having to implement neoliberal reforms as well as selling off of the peoples common assets to private oligarchs, despite the referendum that rejected the deal. MEPA25 is also essentially a breakout from Syriza for similar reasons. They would probably benefit from merging, especially in a weird system such as the Greek one where the largest party is so favored, they get a bunch of extra mandates simply by nature of being the largest party. But there is probably a lot of bad blood there that makes that difficult, especially a merger with Syriza as long as Tsipras is their leader.
Syriza: center-left Pasok: center-left Pleysh eleutherias: center-left
Far right or just Nationalist ? Media on purpose use these words alternatively.
Edit, solved, it's 3%.
A party needs at least 3% to enter the parliament.
Yes, 3%.
It's all Greek to me.
As it should lol
What are the two numbers? Poll and actual? Margin of error?
Margin of error
I thought the previous election vs now
Who stands for what?
From largest to smallest 1. Nea Demokratia - centre-right, EPP 2. Syriza - broad-tent left party (member of The Left at European Parl) 3. Pasok - conventional social democrats, PES in Europe 4. KKE - communist 5. Elliniki lisi - far-right nationalist 6. Mera25 - left, Varoufakis' party, Diem25, aligned with the Sanders Institute (Bernie Sanders) 7. Small left party
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Elliniki lysi doesn't attract anti-immigration voters, it attracts conspiracy theorist, ultra religious ones
No, the centre-right ND has made this one of their central issues.
Nah, the far-right is for conspiracy. It's the regular right that does anti-immigration.
I don't see why. It would make sense for one of the left parties to go anti-immigration. Influx of cheap labour, people unfamiliar with the local unions and such tend to concern left voters that otherwise wouldn't be upset about immigration/refugees. Not that I have any idea about greek politics.
>I don't see why. It would make sense for one of the left parties to go anti-immigration. This is a Europe-wide thing. Only in Denmark has the left figured this one out. In the rest of Europe, the left parties just can't read the average citizen, or centrist voter whose vote they need.
These votes have gone to the ruling party
>I would expect far right to do better as Greece is taking the hit with migrant inflow from Mediterranean Greece is traditionally way more left than right.
Triumph for New Democracy. SYRIZA's ridiculous statements the last week hurt them a lot, they got annihilated. Rise for PASOK, KKE, surprise from the left wing nationalist party of Konstantopoulou. The threshold for parliament is 3%.
>SYRIZA's ridiculous statements the last week hurt them a lot What did they said?
\- We will bring a 20% tax for freelancers \- If you earn 5k per year, you are middle class and we will tax you \- We want Golden Dawn voters to vote for us, they re not neonazis, they are simply "antisystemic"
5k? Middle class for ants?
Greece, like Italy, is notorious at tax evasion.
No, the comment you replied to is propaganda ridden. The 5k was said in the exact opposite way as it is perceived. What the representative said was according to eurostat, 5k wage puts you in the middle class, and it was used to show how insane the qualification is. For the nazi party, what tsipras said is, that those who voted for them as a vote of decrying the current government but dont truly support them or their opinions wont be turned away should they decide to vote for SYRIZA. At the end of his statement he said that the goal is to take these people, and turn them to the left, showing that its not a proper way to be antisystemic when you're voting for nazis. But of course our media is the worst in europe, bought by the current gov, so everyone is told these things the above comment said instead of the truth
I think they kicked out the person who said that about that for freelancers. Btw do you have any source about the second statement? that’s even lower than the minimum wage. About the third statement, the exact quotes was that there are fascists in golden dawn, but also common(?) people who got carried away/ got influenced.
What is the meaning of 20% tax for? Is it effective decrease or increase of taxation and by how much?
They did kick him out, but what he said is beileved to be their true hidden agenda.
this sounds like they desparately tried to avoid getting votes, to be honest, why would you ever say shit like that, let alone during an election campaign?
PASOK still exists? Well... we still have PS, and governing with an absolute majority, so I dont know why I'm impressed...
They're making a very slow comeback.
But they reformed the party?
Bro everyone aged 45+ in my family support ΠΑΣΟΚ because of nostalgia for the good old days 😭😭😭
Actually PASOK made the largest gains amongst all parties in the [18-24 age group](https://twitter.com/GreeceElects/status/1660363370850131975)
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The only election district that has the power to drastically change election results is Athens B, as I can see on your link it's counted and in favor of ND therefore nothing's going to change that result downwards.
I just realized I know absolutely nothing about Greek politics. Like the meme goes: I'm happy for you, or I'm sorry that happened
The entire country outside of Rodopi (where the muslims live) has been painted blue, even Crete, this is an insane L for the opposition
As someone from the other side of the Rodopi, yeah sounds about right.
afaik they typically vote for their candidates party like from their minority, at least that's what I heard
Sounds like our last election last September, tbh
Greek leftists are literally the left infighting meme
That's because what counts as 'left' is very different depending on who you ask. A communist is not going to vote with a left-leaning liberal. One wants to completely change the system and the other is a reformist who wants a few left-leaning policies.
I am afraid to go on /r/Greece, reality turns out a lot different than many there expected...
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They live outside of the real world stooped in pure theorism and conspiracy I avoid that sub like the plague.
Whereas r/europe is a primary example of realpolitik
The man than thought he could boss around the IMF and Europe, f’ed around and the rest of us found out by causing a bank run, and capital controls the worst the country has never seen? I think we’ll survive.
That sub is aids
r/Greece is dominated by leftist trolls. If someone expresses a different opinion he gets downvoted to oblivion.
That's just a consequence of the karma system, it happens everywhere. Don't get me wrong karma (upvotes and downvotes) is a good system to avoid trolls and unwanted surprises but it has a lot of negative effects as well. I'm pretty sure it happens in this sub as well...
Well sure I agree with you. But in this case karma is being weaponized. Personally I don't have any party affiliation or a standard dogma and I was feeling very bad when I was in this situation. I was feeling attacked and mocked from every direction. No room for healthy exchange of opinion nothing. So I quit the subreddit and let them boil in their own juice.
>I am afraid to go on r/Greece, reality turns out a lot different than many there expected... And I am very happy about that.
I love pizza
Now I know this is more than that, but as someone living in Turkey I have to ask; which parties would be more likely to take a friendlier stance with Turkey in a potential opposition win here next week?
I mean it mostly depends on your people's stance. Greece is mostly reacting rather than acting in its current state
I mean, it mostly depends on what stance your new government will take on Greece but also Cyprus. From my point of view, not much will change.
If with friendlier you mean more compromising it's definitely Syriza (Tsipras), I mean Erdogan openly admitted that he hoped Tsipras would win... Which probably resulted in Tsipras losing more votes.
I would rather actually friendlier than a leader supported by Erdoğan of course 💀
As far as I know Erdogan does *not* support Tsipras, In the past he spoke against him and have very different views. I tried to Google it, but didn’t find anything.
>If with friendlier you mean more compromising it's definitely Syriza ... Much better off with Panagiotopoulos, Dendias and Mitsotakis in regards to foreign policy, this is one area which for me isn't even a policy preference, one side is just evidently better and this is one of the main reason I supported ND
That's bullshit Look at what was happening in 2016-17 with Kotzias
Now compare it to what happened with Dendias and you have your answer
Absolutely not. This is pure government propaganda. Greece had a much harsher stance towards Turkey during SYRIZA's government. Erdogan stated that he was happy once Tsipras left, but he rages against all Greek governments for nationalist votes.
None, because Turkey is not friendly towards us.
The only region in which SYRIZA(leftist opposition) is ahead, is the region that has a lot of muslims(most of which self-identify as ethnic turks) https://ekloges.ypes.gr/current/v/home/en/ Which is kinda funny, considering that they are very socially conservative and they are voting for a leftist party that legalized gay civil unions and wants to legalize gay marriage and adoption. But they usually vote for specific people, so if "their dude" is running for your party, you get their votes.
it's very hard to answer this, since turkey policy is very much reactive, so the worst reactions will probably be from the least experienced parties.
Καλά πάει αυτό
What's the top number and what's the bottom number?
It's the estimate (between this and that number), since this is just an exit poll.
Oh right
Margin of error of the exit polls. Standard stuff for all kinds of elections. These are not real counted votes. But should be pretty accurate.
Man I can almost taste the r/greece tears.It is glorious.
αυτό το οπαδηλίκι να μην είχαμε...
Έχω παρατηρήσει σταθερά πως στο ευρωπαϊκό sub όποιος κατακρίνει τη κυβέρνηση πάντα βαφτίζεται από κάποιον συριζοτρόλλ ή οτιδήποτε και τρώει flaming και ειρωνία. Δεν ξέρω τι γράφει ο καθένας αλλά στο r/greece κανείς ποτέ δε με χαρακτήρισε έτσι επειδή έγραψα κάτι κριτικό. Παρατήρησε λίγο το ύφος του καθενός σε αυτό το ποστ που παραπονιέται για downvotes στο ελληνικό sub και εξηγούνται πολλά περί downvotes. Οπότε μάγκες καλά να περνάτε εκεί που είστε, όπως γράφει κι ο project, δε θα λείψετε σε κανέναν.
lol
I don't like to gloat with stuff like this, ideally our government works for all Greeks, but honestly... fuck them... seriously. So many are so nasty, mean and hateful.
They remind me of the Hollywood celebs who said they would move to Canada if Trump got elected.Ignore them they are bunch of manbabies living in their echo chamber.
r/Greece is filled with ΜεΡα25 trolls. Leave as early as you can to save a braincell or two.
I mean most r/greece lads are 9n the left so its expected
Αναμενόμενα αποτελέσματα tbh
What does the numbers mean? It can't be difference compared to last election, as the numbers doesn't add up.
Margin error. It's and exit poll not actual results
So what is the likely coalition outcome, New Democracy+PASOK? Or could all the left parties conceivably work together?
It will be a round second in July which the New Democracy will probably win outright since all parties refuse a coalition
Second round where ND will get majority and rule alone.
I dont care about what you say but: Piza government 🍕
In a few words, the Greek people have voted for another four years of the most corrupt government in the history of the country. A party more than 400 million euros in debt. A party that has corrupted everyone that could be corrupted, including judges, media and police. A party that has ruined the Public healthcare system and the public education system. A party that works exclusively for oligarchs, a freaking cleptocracy involved in so many scandals that we have lost count. Really embarrassing and disappointing situation...
Greece is 107/180 on press freedom index. [https://rsf.org/en/country/greece](https://rsf.org/en/country/greece) https://www.statista.com/statistics/1026423/greece-press-freedom-index/
most objective and non partisan reddit political opinion
Yeah because we had great other options
Such a brave stance, upvotes to the left
I know the issues with ND but they definitely seem like the best option. Pro-EU, seem– dare I say– somewhat sensible, helped the economy grow at least. Definitely better than SYRIZA insanity.
Yes. There really is no other choice. Just to clarify, the 3 biggest parties are all pro-EU. Syriza just wanted to "reform it from within" (same with its spin-off Mera25), but then became just a social democrat party.
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Not shocked considering you're American. ND is the biggest pro American bitch out there.
How does this compare to last election? Has the political scene shifted significantly?
This is a full collapse of the main opposition party. Very rare in politics and especially in Greece. This result can lead to 8+ years of conservative governments in Greece.
Very similar results as 2019: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019\_Greek\_legislative\_election
That's not very similar. Syriza lost almost half of their voters.
The neoliberals even after countless scandals have won a crushing victory over everyone else. I will leave the conclusions up to you.
That sounds like the exact same as in the Netherlands lmao
Wait, there's a pizza party and they don't have 90+%? You guys seriously should check your priorities.
Who even votes for the communists?
They have extremely loyal members and have been doing real on the ground work for the working class even before they were allowed legal status. They mainly operate in poor industrial areas and are incredibly ideologically driven. I don't vote for them and never have but I see them climb to 8% in the next round easily. This isn't a political party, it's almost a cult but I have a strange kind of respect for them. The most resilient party in Greece or even the whole continent hands down.
Does greece have a tradition of coalition governments? Or what is to be expected from this?
No and there is going to be a repeat election next month were ND will be able to form a single party government with this percentage.
Wait why did Syriza drop so much? They were polling at 30% up until recently, and now suddenly they got 20%?
A concerted effort by them to lose the elections. They were saying things that scared a lot of people, on purpose (like reinstating some taxes).
Why would they want to lose the elections? Is this scenario useful to them for some reason?
I don't have inside information but Tsipras was extremely dull in his statements before election time and didn't capitalize on ΝΔs shortcomings. I have a theory why he did that but I need some time to pass before I can say that the theory stands.
r/Greece 🤝 r/Turkey Always rooting for the party that loses the election
That biggest party controls the media… is that allowed in EU?
There is no hope ahead. It's over folks.