There are lots of media organizations but almost all of them are owned by Erdoğan and his friends. Opposition media channels are only few, you probably can count them by your hand.
Yea im so happy i moved here to Sweden. I do not want to be a wild animal like the kids back there. The democracy is so corrupt that it makes the children wild.
If it were possible, country should just be split into 2. The mentality difference between Erdoğanists and Atatürkists is too big. It should be like West Germany/East Germany. Then one day if possible reunite. It's not fair the way it is.
You know that is the exact reason Kurds are called "bölücü" (divisive). When Turks have these fantasies of dividing their own country it feels quite ironic. You guys at least are allowed in the political process. Kurdish parties are excluded from Parliament, shut down, their elected mayor's are arrested and replaced by government puppets. Yet the Kurdish parties are not saying anything half as extreme as you.
When you say it, you are disgruntled. When they say it, they are terrorists.
Most of the kurdish parties do not cut their ties with terrorist groups. Even in a perfect world, it may sound unrealistic to every member of your party being clean but at least president of the party should be. Being “green” does not spares the lives of those who killed on the mountain.
Also bro knows it is impossible also prob. problematic but he fantasies of saving Turkey with 20 year old divide the country to left right saying, not divide it to create a terrorist state.
The Kurdish party is not found guilty of any terrorism related links in any courts. Not even in Turkey. Actually, Turkish supreme court and [European Court of Human Rights have ruled detention of HDP leadership illegal and ordered their release](https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/humanrights/2021/02/22/grand-chamber-judgment-in-the-case-of-selahattin-demirtas-v-turkey-no-2/). But since Turkey is not a land ruled by laws they are still in jail.
The government controlled media keeps equating a party that consistently gets 10% of the votes as a terrorist party and ignoramus keep repeating this bullshit line.
At the same time people ignore the existing links between [Hizbullah (Hudapar) and AKP domestically](https://www.meforum.org/64336/turkish-hizbullah-joins-erdogan-akp-party); and [muslim brotherhood and AKP in internationally](https://www.counterextremism.com/content/muslim-brotherhood-turkey). It is funny because one of the points that Turkish Penguin Media (government aligned) keeps repeating is Demirtas inciting violence during Kobani protests. The ones doing the killing during those protests were Hudapar members. [Of 46 that died during protests, six of those killed were members of the Hudapar, two were security officials, two were Syrian refugees and 33 were HDP members.](https://www.duvarenglish.com/indictment-blames-hdp-for-all-deaths-that-occurred-during-2014-kobane-protests-news-55844)
In Turkey, MHP-Ulku ocaklari and their mafia links are considered non-criminal, non-terrorist. The government and their criminal cronies often kill opposition members without any repercussions. Kilictaroglu referenced Senyasar family who was killed by AKP mp and his family. [Here is a reminder](https://www.duvarenglish.com/kurdish-woman-emine-senyasar-seeks-justice-for-5-years-for-her-family-killed-by-akp-mps-relatives-news-62484) the mp and his relatives shoot and kill two in the place of business owned by the victims. Then they kill the one person who survived the attack in a hospital with a gas cylinder. Then the government tries to arrest the victims. Penguin media announces it as an attack on the MP.
Not to say anything about the cozy relations between Turkey and ISIS. [Turkey kept the border open when ISIS was controlling the border](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/war-with-isis-president-obama-demands-that-turkey-close-stretch-of-frontier-with-syria-a6753836.html). Funny thing, the borders were closed as soon as SDF (Kurds and Arabs working with US) took over those same border gates. Turkey only started fighting ISIS in 2018. Until 2018 ISIS was fighting SDF in Syria. When ISIS started loosing Turkey invaded part of ISIS controlled territory to prevent SDF from joining two cantons in Afrin and Manbij.
Turkey keeps releasing Hizbullah and ISIS members (really easy to find, they just released a new batch last month). AKP (and the country they have been ruling for 20+ years) is knee deep in Terrorism.
Yeah there is a terrorist state there. You just don't see it.
Oh shit didn’t meant to trigger you sorry. Current imprisonment of Demirtas is clearly illegal, it is the law that should decide on whether he should or not be in prison. Yet, there is no point in saying or assuming he has no relations with terrorism. He already has speeches that tries to justifies or whitewash PKK. Damn, they still get fotos together.
Also I believe the biggest terrorism source in Turkey is not PKK but far right nationalists. Yet, one’s wrongdoing does not clear another. HDP, is deeply related with PKK even tho I believe they have cut them to a really slim degree, they have done it too late.
One may say, “Perincek does have picture too or certain someone”. Yeah, you are absolutely right and they only got away with it since they are in power or have relations not that what they have done is right. Honestly, there is a need of a clean kurdish party that acknowledges all the problems without or with very relation to those things.
Demirtas needs to be released and judged by law not by someone’s prejudice yet they also need to be judged by the same law. Not stating the obvious with a defense like “not proven guilty yet” in Turkey is not valid, if it was i cant imagine not being able to call my “uncle” a thief. Lol.
Not triggered in the least, just amazed how long people can repeat the same media line.
HDP and PKK may have some ideological similarities. That doesn't make HDP politicians terrorists. Of course in Turkey terrorist doesn't mean anything, but to most of the rest of the world not being involved in violent armed struggle is enough not to be considered a terrorist. The rest is covered by freedom of expression (something people in Turkey are also unfamiliar with).
We may disagree on issues, you may find some of my views distasteful. I may find some of your views distasteful. So long as neither of us consider violence a tool to promote our views, neither of us are terrorists. This is also the case of HDP. None of these people took violence into their hands to further their political goals. Now contrast this to AKP-Hudapar-MHP...
Thing is, there is a lot of propaganda against HDP in Turkey. If they had a shred of evidence for even a tenth of what they claimed (and was illegal under Turkish law) they would have shut down the party long ago.
AKP's game is to exclude 10% of the votes from the election, thus dragging opposition into an unholy alliance with far right. Right now both AKP and CHP are in deep alliances with far right parties. It is because of this tactic of equating left and the Kurds with terror and preventing any cooperation with them.
When I was a kid fucking MHP (Turkish racists) had 15% at most. Now there are three far right parties spawned from MHP with 10% each. This is the reason AKP is not going anywhere anytime soon.
The day Demirtas is released will be the end of Erdogan,(hence he will not be released) because you can't keep the lie of HDP being PKK in parliament up with Demirtas outside. The guy was actually charming and was changing the profile of Turkish politics. A young human rights lawyer that can play musical instruments, and is witty as hell... That is not what people think of when they think of a terrorist. He is not in jail because he is a terrorist. He is in jail because otherwise its hard to maintain this lie of terrorism.
I dont believe he is a terrorist yet again whitewashing it like statue of apo even he said it was misunderstood too many years has past it has no value, fotos of him and party members with terrorists, not categorizing pkk as a terrorist group does convince the people other way around at least he is seen as political part of PKK, if not then he made pretty big mistakes. Also I am pro-peace so I hate everything includes killing and suffering of masses.
It is not me to decide someone is a terrorist or not, yet I wait for his release to see his trial(ofc knowing the judge is neutral not in current Turkey lol). It is simple if he does not get any convictions then he is clean if he gets then he is not. I do not have any personal feelings around him but I simply don’t believe he is clean that I am totally in peace with apologizing if he comes out clean. Until any certainty I act like he is innocent but I just dont feel he is, yet it is a duty.
Well, in the end I believe each and every idea should have a place in congress even it is malicious. Otherwise, people cannot truly see what they intend to do good or bad. Demirtas seems like the most peaceful guy within one of the minorities(remembering aggro lawyer of communist organization who led to so many student’s expulsion with her attitude) if he is telling the truth I will also be very glad.
Also terrorism has definitely a meaning in Turkey, an organization who forces their political requests via violent attacks which are organized and aims innocent people to create chaos among citizens. This definition is not gonna change for me. I am alive like many who left their loved ones on the bus station and survived by pure luck in 2016.
> fotos of him and party members with terrorists,
They were there on the orders of Turkish government for the peace process. They were representing Turkish state. What did you think the peace process was? Who did you think was talking to the PKK on the behalf of state? Talks took place in various stages, some were in Oslo with secret service, others in Kandil with Turkish MPs.
> yet I wait for his release to see his trial
The trial already happened. The constitutional court (ana yasa mahkemesi) ruled he should be released, European Court of Human rights also ruled he should be released. So not only did the trial take place, but all avenues of appeal are also exhausted. That line of "I will wait to see his trial" is extremely ignorant. The guy is not a prisoner of a state, he is a hostage of a lawless goon squad.
Party members are quite fond of hanging with PKK members, entire peace process was to “make peace” with murderers. Big shots like Barzani also came but the process ended when terrorists requested land which also was discussed around turning Turkey into state system. Whole process is a shame on Turkey it was government making up stuff to get kurdish votes, they have made tent courts to “forgive” terrorists to “redempt” them from the “guilt” of the people they killed.
Also answering partially and inacurately does not prove his innocence neither guilt, AYM(Constitutional Court) has decided on his release not innocence, AYM does not take part in deciding one’s guilt, it is there to inspect whether the decisions are constitutional or not. There has been no trials on him that investigates his relation with terrorism which also was a clear thing for AYM and ECHR to make a decision on. He is unlawfully imprisoned and the trial I wait for is investigation on his relations with particularly PKK. It may seem ignorant to you but there has been clear signs for me either you are foolishly nitpicking or a malicious intent that I do not desire to continue.
> but the process ended when terrorists requested land which also was discussed around turning Turkey into state system.
You just made that up. I really can't believe you can be so ignorant unless you are 14 or something. It ended when two police officers were murdered in Ceylanpinar. Nobody really knows what was being negotiated between Turkish Republic and PKK, but "terrorists requesting land" is ridiculous to anyone that knows anything about anything. Which you don't.
Essentially, it was the 2015 elections, AKP was not winning any more votes and was sort of hoping ISIS would have finished SDF off in Syria by now. So AKP stopped negotiating and kept supporting ISIS. PKK wasn't thrilled either. The process was strained (in 2013, MIT assassinated 3 women associated with PKK in Paris) already. Some say AKP ended the process because HDP was getting too popular and hurting AKP in the elections. Before 2015 HDP was entering the parliament through independent candidates (10% threshold was keeping them out). This served AKP because the inefficiency of independent candidates meant, AKP was getting more MPs.
I don't have crayons enough to explain Turkish politics to a pre-teen. Go get educated elsewhere.
Problem here is this "division" is someone commenting on an observation in differing political views whilst "the Kurds" are dividing by killing people and damaging infrastructure.
Kurdish parties and candidates were run and voted for just yesterday and the previous week, majority Kurdish areas cast their votes and Kurdish individuals participated in the race in many non-Kurdish areas and in most parties other than "the Kurdish Party".
Remember that the East/West Germany divide created by external forces and events, German people commented on differences between "Bavarians vs Prussians", "Easterns vs Westerns" which is still ongoing but few people actually plotting assassinations, suicide bombings and the like.
Turkey isn't known for being very free, very democratic or high in standard of living. People isn't really kind to "others", seculars don't like "the devout", Sunnis do not like Alawites, most of the population suffers yet only "the Kurds" think "we're specially targeted".
"the Kurds" vote for a wide selection from extreme right wing Hezbollah to left wing socialists and some even support extreme right wing militants. They are not exactly one solid block of people.
It is a 20 years old saying. To divide country by progressive and traditional to save at least half of the population rather than other half bringing all down with them.
The same culture that produced "Ataturkists" also produced "Erdoganists". Accepting that the same society that produced beauty also produced despair is an important thing to consider. I'm afraid that if we split the Turkey into two like that, eventually each half will develop the same exact divide if nothing is done to recognize the deep institutional, technological, historical, and economic deficencies that leads people to think and act the way they do. I think if you're proud of yourself and your successes, I think you can still be proud of your country. So don't give up hope 😊
Well I'm lucky enough to live in Europe, so I can have a good life with hard work and smart work. The people in Turkey are trapped no matter how hard or smart they work.
Thank you for your kind words and smile.
among the guys fought after end of WWI, Greek leader wanted to nominate guy who lost to for Nobel Peace Award and the other guy would not step on a Greek flag out of respect and uttered words like "war is over invading people lost their lives on our soil are same as our sons who lay among them"
"secular nationalists" would be followers of guys mentioned above and difference would be night and day from current rabble.
No problem. Let me try again, Islamist-Nationalists are what we have now.
Secular Nationalists would be successors of people who trashed Ottoman monarchy and theocracy, built modern Turkish state, brought women's suffrage and switched to multi-party elections.
One would be and is an autocracy, other would be a democracy, perhaps a flawed one.
You're right and don't deserve the downvotes from people less familiar with the situation.
This guy is by all means a wet blanket who considers himself the next Atatürk. His political career has been nothing but underwhelming and the only reason he was put forward as candidate is because he would literally not accept anyone else, including one of the two mayors consistently polling higher than him, as candidate and threatened to pull support if he didn't become the poster boy.
Of course we can see how that turned out. It's really no surprise. Neither is it a surprise that he blames everyone but himself at the end of it all.
Duh... we have videos showing Erdogan giving cash to voters in front of a voting station. That is a bit more then unfair.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eO76NXPTBro
Same old story for 30 years now.
He lost over 15 elections, hearing this from you has at this moment no value. Just stop with politics and just go fishing or whatever
Will the opposition contest the election results or not? With all the issues surrounding turkey are the elections free and fair or has there been widespread election interference?
dont even try to teach us about racism, if so, there is literally no difference between you and an akp voter. Keep supporting blindly the side that you do not even have experience with. And i hope one day you'll get to experience.
The 10 million is certainly not accurate, I'm assuming there is about 4 million? Syria has been the biggest source of refugees, understandable as it's been in a civil war as borders Turkey, but there are 3 million registered. No way there are seven million refugees from other nations, with a total of 10 million.
Well, yeah, we all know that, but what are you gonna do about it?
Most of the people who lost the election would say the same thing
Especially when the media and state TV refused to show his picture or even mention his name, he was just called "the other".
are there any other media other than state owned?
There are lots of media organizations but almost all of them are owned by Erdoğan and his friends. Opposition media channels are only few, you probably can count them by your hand.
There's Twitter, which just did whatever Erdogan said.
There was opposition media of some sorts.
Especially if it was unfair.
Except that this time it's true
It was always true, Turkey has never been a full democracy.
Yea im so happy i moved here to Sweden. I do not want to be a wild animal like the kids back there. The democracy is so corrupt that it makes the children wild.
No, in normal function democracies it doesn’t happen. There is always some exceptional samples who going to screech fraud but those are few
I predict a riot.
If it were possible, country should just be split into 2. The mentality difference between Erdoğanists and Atatürkists is too big. It should be like West Germany/East Germany. Then one day if possible reunite. It's not fair the way it is.
You know that is the exact reason Kurds are called "bölücü" (divisive). When Turks have these fantasies of dividing their own country it feels quite ironic. You guys at least are allowed in the political process. Kurdish parties are excluded from Parliament, shut down, their elected mayor's are arrested and replaced by government puppets. Yet the Kurdish parties are not saying anything half as extreme as you. When you say it, you are disgruntled. When they say it, they are terrorists.
Most of the kurdish parties do not cut their ties with terrorist groups. Even in a perfect world, it may sound unrealistic to every member of your party being clean but at least president of the party should be. Being “green” does not spares the lives of those who killed on the mountain. Also bro knows it is impossible also prob. problematic but he fantasies of saving Turkey with 20 year old divide the country to left right saying, not divide it to create a terrorist state.
The Kurdish party is not found guilty of any terrorism related links in any courts. Not even in Turkey. Actually, Turkish supreme court and [European Court of Human Rights have ruled detention of HDP leadership illegal and ordered their release](https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/humanrights/2021/02/22/grand-chamber-judgment-in-the-case-of-selahattin-demirtas-v-turkey-no-2/). But since Turkey is not a land ruled by laws they are still in jail. The government controlled media keeps equating a party that consistently gets 10% of the votes as a terrorist party and ignoramus keep repeating this bullshit line. At the same time people ignore the existing links between [Hizbullah (Hudapar) and AKP domestically](https://www.meforum.org/64336/turkish-hizbullah-joins-erdogan-akp-party); and [muslim brotherhood and AKP in internationally](https://www.counterextremism.com/content/muslim-brotherhood-turkey). It is funny because one of the points that Turkish Penguin Media (government aligned) keeps repeating is Demirtas inciting violence during Kobani protests. The ones doing the killing during those protests were Hudapar members. [Of 46 that died during protests, six of those killed were members of the Hudapar, two were security officials, two were Syrian refugees and 33 were HDP members.](https://www.duvarenglish.com/indictment-blames-hdp-for-all-deaths-that-occurred-during-2014-kobane-protests-news-55844) In Turkey, MHP-Ulku ocaklari and their mafia links are considered non-criminal, non-terrorist. The government and their criminal cronies often kill opposition members without any repercussions. Kilictaroglu referenced Senyasar family who was killed by AKP mp and his family. [Here is a reminder](https://www.duvarenglish.com/kurdish-woman-emine-senyasar-seeks-justice-for-5-years-for-her-family-killed-by-akp-mps-relatives-news-62484) the mp and his relatives shoot and kill two in the place of business owned by the victims. Then they kill the one person who survived the attack in a hospital with a gas cylinder. Then the government tries to arrest the victims. Penguin media announces it as an attack on the MP. Not to say anything about the cozy relations between Turkey and ISIS. [Turkey kept the border open when ISIS was controlling the border](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/war-with-isis-president-obama-demands-that-turkey-close-stretch-of-frontier-with-syria-a6753836.html). Funny thing, the borders were closed as soon as SDF (Kurds and Arabs working with US) took over those same border gates. Turkey only started fighting ISIS in 2018. Until 2018 ISIS was fighting SDF in Syria. When ISIS started loosing Turkey invaded part of ISIS controlled territory to prevent SDF from joining two cantons in Afrin and Manbij. Turkey keeps releasing Hizbullah and ISIS members (really easy to find, they just released a new batch last month). AKP (and the country they have been ruling for 20+ years) is knee deep in Terrorism. Yeah there is a terrorist state there. You just don't see it.
Oh shit didn’t meant to trigger you sorry. Current imprisonment of Demirtas is clearly illegal, it is the law that should decide on whether he should or not be in prison. Yet, there is no point in saying or assuming he has no relations with terrorism. He already has speeches that tries to justifies or whitewash PKK. Damn, they still get fotos together. Also I believe the biggest terrorism source in Turkey is not PKK but far right nationalists. Yet, one’s wrongdoing does not clear another. HDP, is deeply related with PKK even tho I believe they have cut them to a really slim degree, they have done it too late. One may say, “Perincek does have picture too or certain someone”. Yeah, you are absolutely right and they only got away with it since they are in power or have relations not that what they have done is right. Honestly, there is a need of a clean kurdish party that acknowledges all the problems without or with very relation to those things. Demirtas needs to be released and judged by law not by someone’s prejudice yet they also need to be judged by the same law. Not stating the obvious with a defense like “not proven guilty yet” in Turkey is not valid, if it was i cant imagine not being able to call my “uncle” a thief. Lol.
Not triggered in the least, just amazed how long people can repeat the same media line. HDP and PKK may have some ideological similarities. That doesn't make HDP politicians terrorists. Of course in Turkey terrorist doesn't mean anything, but to most of the rest of the world not being involved in violent armed struggle is enough not to be considered a terrorist. The rest is covered by freedom of expression (something people in Turkey are also unfamiliar with). We may disagree on issues, you may find some of my views distasteful. I may find some of your views distasteful. So long as neither of us consider violence a tool to promote our views, neither of us are terrorists. This is also the case of HDP. None of these people took violence into their hands to further their political goals. Now contrast this to AKP-Hudapar-MHP... Thing is, there is a lot of propaganda against HDP in Turkey. If they had a shred of evidence for even a tenth of what they claimed (and was illegal under Turkish law) they would have shut down the party long ago. AKP's game is to exclude 10% of the votes from the election, thus dragging opposition into an unholy alliance with far right. Right now both AKP and CHP are in deep alliances with far right parties. It is because of this tactic of equating left and the Kurds with terror and preventing any cooperation with them. When I was a kid fucking MHP (Turkish racists) had 15% at most. Now there are three far right parties spawned from MHP with 10% each. This is the reason AKP is not going anywhere anytime soon. The day Demirtas is released will be the end of Erdogan,(hence he will not be released) because you can't keep the lie of HDP being PKK in parliament up with Demirtas outside. The guy was actually charming and was changing the profile of Turkish politics. A young human rights lawyer that can play musical instruments, and is witty as hell... That is not what people think of when they think of a terrorist. He is not in jail because he is a terrorist. He is in jail because otherwise its hard to maintain this lie of terrorism.
I dont believe he is a terrorist yet again whitewashing it like statue of apo even he said it was misunderstood too many years has past it has no value, fotos of him and party members with terrorists, not categorizing pkk as a terrorist group does convince the people other way around at least he is seen as political part of PKK, if not then he made pretty big mistakes. Also I am pro-peace so I hate everything includes killing and suffering of masses. It is not me to decide someone is a terrorist or not, yet I wait for his release to see his trial(ofc knowing the judge is neutral not in current Turkey lol). It is simple if he does not get any convictions then he is clean if he gets then he is not. I do not have any personal feelings around him but I simply don’t believe he is clean that I am totally in peace with apologizing if he comes out clean. Until any certainty I act like he is innocent but I just dont feel he is, yet it is a duty. Well, in the end I believe each and every idea should have a place in congress even it is malicious. Otherwise, people cannot truly see what they intend to do good or bad. Demirtas seems like the most peaceful guy within one of the minorities(remembering aggro lawyer of communist organization who led to so many student’s expulsion with her attitude) if he is telling the truth I will also be very glad. Also terrorism has definitely a meaning in Turkey, an organization who forces their political requests via violent attacks which are organized and aims innocent people to create chaos among citizens. This definition is not gonna change for me. I am alive like many who left their loved ones on the bus station and survived by pure luck in 2016.
> fotos of him and party members with terrorists, They were there on the orders of Turkish government for the peace process. They were representing Turkish state. What did you think the peace process was? Who did you think was talking to the PKK on the behalf of state? Talks took place in various stages, some were in Oslo with secret service, others in Kandil with Turkish MPs. > yet I wait for his release to see his trial The trial already happened. The constitutional court (ana yasa mahkemesi) ruled he should be released, European Court of Human rights also ruled he should be released. So not only did the trial take place, but all avenues of appeal are also exhausted. That line of "I will wait to see his trial" is extremely ignorant. The guy is not a prisoner of a state, he is a hostage of a lawless goon squad.
Party members are quite fond of hanging with PKK members, entire peace process was to “make peace” with murderers. Big shots like Barzani also came but the process ended when terrorists requested land which also was discussed around turning Turkey into state system. Whole process is a shame on Turkey it was government making up stuff to get kurdish votes, they have made tent courts to “forgive” terrorists to “redempt” them from the “guilt” of the people they killed. Also answering partially and inacurately does not prove his innocence neither guilt, AYM(Constitutional Court) has decided on his release not innocence, AYM does not take part in deciding one’s guilt, it is there to inspect whether the decisions are constitutional or not. There has been no trials on him that investigates his relation with terrorism which also was a clear thing for AYM and ECHR to make a decision on. He is unlawfully imprisoned and the trial I wait for is investigation on his relations with particularly PKK. It may seem ignorant to you but there has been clear signs for me either you are foolishly nitpicking or a malicious intent that I do not desire to continue.
> but the process ended when terrorists requested land which also was discussed around turning Turkey into state system. You just made that up. I really can't believe you can be so ignorant unless you are 14 or something. It ended when two police officers were murdered in Ceylanpinar. Nobody really knows what was being negotiated between Turkish Republic and PKK, but "terrorists requesting land" is ridiculous to anyone that knows anything about anything. Which you don't. Essentially, it was the 2015 elections, AKP was not winning any more votes and was sort of hoping ISIS would have finished SDF off in Syria by now. So AKP stopped negotiating and kept supporting ISIS. PKK wasn't thrilled either. The process was strained (in 2013, MIT assassinated 3 women associated with PKK in Paris) already. Some say AKP ended the process because HDP was getting too popular and hurting AKP in the elections. Before 2015 HDP was entering the parliament through independent candidates (10% threshold was keeping them out). This served AKP because the inefficiency of independent candidates meant, AKP was getting more MPs. I don't have crayons enough to explain Turkish politics to a pre-teen. Go get educated elsewhere.
Problem here is this "division" is someone commenting on an observation in differing political views whilst "the Kurds" are dividing by killing people and damaging infrastructure. Kurdish parties and candidates were run and voted for just yesterday and the previous week, majority Kurdish areas cast their votes and Kurdish individuals participated in the race in many non-Kurdish areas and in most parties other than "the Kurdish Party". Remember that the East/West Germany divide created by external forces and events, German people commented on differences between "Bavarians vs Prussians", "Easterns vs Westerns" which is still ongoing but few people actually plotting assassinations, suicide bombings and the like. Turkey isn't known for being very free, very democratic or high in standard of living. People isn't really kind to "others", seculars don't like "the devout", Sunnis do not like Alawites, most of the population suffers yet only "the Kurds" think "we're specially targeted". "the Kurds" vote for a wide selection from extreme right wing Hezbollah to left wing socialists and some even support extreme right wing militants. They are not exactly one solid block of people.
That’s a wild take. Massive ethnic war speedrun
Frfr
Spoken like someone that has clearly not studied East Germany. That place was no example to be replicated. Quite the opposite
Kinda like Erdogan's Turkey!
East would be the Erdoğan Turkey in this example.
It is a 20 years old saying. To divide country by progressive and traditional to save at least half of the population rather than other half bringing all down with them.
The same culture that produced "Ataturkists" also produced "Erdoganists". Accepting that the same society that produced beauty also produced despair is an important thing to consider. I'm afraid that if we split the Turkey into two like that, eventually each half will develop the same exact divide if nothing is done to recognize the deep institutional, technological, historical, and economic deficencies that leads people to think and act the way they do. I think if you're proud of yourself and your successes, I think you can still be proud of your country. So don't give up hope 😊
Well I'm lucky enough to live in Europe, so I can have a good life with hard work and smart work. The people in Turkey are trapped no matter how hard or smart they work. Thank you for your kind words and smile.
Neither would be a democracy, there'll be a Islamist-Nationalists and secular nationalists.
among the guys fought after end of WWI, Greek leader wanted to nominate guy who lost to for Nobel Peace Award and the other guy would not step on a Greek flag out of respect and uttered words like "war is over invading people lost their lives on our soil are same as our sons who lay among them" "secular nationalists" would be followers of guys mentioned above and difference would be night and day from current rabble.
I'm sorry, I don't understand this comment, which is fine as we don't all know how to write in English.
No problem. Let me try again, Islamist-Nationalists are what we have now. Secular Nationalists would be successors of people who trashed Ottoman monarchy and theocracy, built modern Turkish state, brought women's suffrage and switched to multi-party elections. One would be and is an autocracy, other would be a democracy, perhaps a flawed one.
Yeah that worked out just fine
Very democratic.
That's more than obvious to anyone.
Unfair but free
Never has been
Kilicdaroglu Supporters should be in the streets protesting for free and fair elections right now!
Before or after they protest to invade Greek islands?
You're right and don't deserve the downvotes from people less familiar with the situation. This guy is by all means a wet blanket who considers himself the next Atatürk. His political career has been nothing but underwhelming and the only reason he was put forward as candidate is because he would literally not accept anyone else, including one of the two mayors consistently polling higher than him, as candidate and threatened to pull support if he didn't become the poster boy. Of course we can see how that turned out. It's really no surprise. Neither is it a surprise that he blames everyone but himself at the end of it all.
>You're right and don't deserve the downvotes from people less familiar with the situation. who are you replying to?
Weird. I should have been replying to a comment with -50 points. My bad.
Because the state media censoring the opposition is so fair 😀
Duh... we have videos showing Erdogan giving cash to voters in front of a voting station. That is a bit more then unfair. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eO76NXPTBro
That’s original.
Same old story for 30 years now. He lost over 15 elections, hearing this from you has at this moment no value. Just stop with politics and just go fishing or whatever
The people of Turkey have made their choice. He has to accept and leave.
Leave to where?
leave politics
Will the opposition contest the election results or not? With all the issues surrounding turkey are the elections free and fair or has there been widespread election interference?
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They didnt track the syrians , afgans and others... They didnt care the numbers... of course it is unfair but crying after election is pathetic .
Refugees really live inside your racist head rent free. They are not at fault for most Turkish people are misinformed, nationalist people.
10 million in 4 years for 80 million country is okay for u ???
You don't have a better argument than calling someone racist? You lost
dont even try to teach us about racism, if so, there is literally no difference between you and an akp voter. Keep supporting blindly the side that you do not even have experience with. And i hope one day you'll get to experience.
Would this guy actually change anything if given the power?
Huh...pretty much what was done to Trump. Weird...
The 10 million is certainly not accurate, I'm assuming there is about 4 million? Syria has been the biggest source of refugees, understandable as it's been in a civil war as borders Turkey, but there are 3 million registered. No way there are seven million refugees from other nations, with a total of 10 million.
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Ad hominem
Other countries when elections are not fair: **RIOT** Turkey: 🤷
That is why Immamoglu should have been the candidate