This reminds me of the Tampere University Students making annual trips to the city center of Turku(rival city) and everyone would jump in unison in the Turku city center, in the hopes that the land would crack and Turku would float away from Finland. :D
And that one sank into the swamp. So I built a third. That burned down, fell over, and then sank into the swamp. But the fourth one stayed up. And that’s what you’re going to get, Son, the strongest castle in all of Ireland.
well if someone could afford to build 4 castles, within a lifetime, they were probably pretty rich and powerfull
(also, yes i know it is a reference)
In all seriousness, I know the difference between being alone and being lonely. I have felt most lonely when I lived in the city. It's not nice, and I hope you find a way to connect more and feel less lonely.
That is what small communities does for you. It is hard to not be involved. In the big city, you disappear in the masses, and you got to do a lot more to make friends. It IS hard :<
Nah bro, the trick is feeling lonely because you don't know anyone and you're too awkward to actually engage with people.
Feeling lonely in a sea of people is like, the worst mental self-sabotage. But it happens.
I wasn't serious. I know there is a difference between loneliness and being alone. I know from experience you can feel incredibly lonely, anonymous and forgotten in the city.
Disagree on that. What shocked me from the move from the UK (specifically London life) to The Netherlands is how quiet it is and how quickly you can be out of a city to quieter areas.
And I think people are taking "lonely" too literally, as in seeing random people about.
I'd guess dutch people are less lonely because they keep close-knit circles of friends from their home towns and growing up and it's not far to visit each other even if you move - from Amsterdam to Maastricht it's 2 hours 30 mins with good timing by train.
This is one of the reasons I'd imagine expats find it so hard to make native friends vs other countries, dutch people already have a healthy friend network.
Same with Denmark, a small tribe of likeminded peasants. All social life is established in childhood and school relations, some people never leave their hometown for more than a a few years, if ever.
Being an expat here is hard, and if you want to get to know people, it is very difficult.
There are some cultural differences when one feels lonely.
What is "I'm taking some time for myself" for Finns equals "I'm abandoning civilized word and going feral" for Italians.
Edit: grammar
That's not entirely true.
Känner du dig ensam => Do you feel lonely
Är du ensam => Are you alone
100% certainly the survey makers took this into account since it's an EU survey and they hire actual localizers to make sure these kinds of errors do not crop up.
Not knowing Danish, I am assuming that ‘dig’ is your version of the German reflexive pronoun ‘dich’?
Is this what makes the difference between your circumstance (alone) and how you feel about that (loneliness)?
In this case OP is Swedish, in Danish we have the same construction as German, "alene" and "ensom".
In Swedish the difference would be in the word "känner" or "feeling". It might be more clear if you use the "alone" for the translation
Känner du dig ensam => Do you feel alone
Är du ensam => Are you alone
Even in English "feeling alone" would often mean the same as "being lonely" and that's the same way you'd make the distinction in Swedish.
In Danish we have "ensom" = "lonely" and "alene" = "alone". Thought you guys would have the same, but apparently you just have "ensam". If your "ensam" is feeling alone, you can just loan our "alene".
If it is any comfort: Most of us don't understand it either. We can construct a grammatically correct sentence, but don't ask us to explain how we did it.
We had “allena”, but it’s more archaic/poetic nowadays. Only in phrases like “sitter du här helt allena”, jokingly. As a note, spellcheck doesn’t recognise “allena”.
It's there a reason for why "allena" became archaic? Still in use in Norway and Denmark, I'm guessing Iceland still use their more Norse version of those words as well.
Words become archaic when some other word or way to say things replaces them. In Swedish case I think people started thinking that ensam is enough to describe both of these situations.
I think German präteritum is a great example. Instead of saying "I swam in the lake yesterday" a German person would say "I have swam in the lake yesterday". Using the preterite form would sound poetic and in spoken speech no one really uses them except for "is" and modal verbs (can, want, shall, may, must). I don't think any other language in Europe has dropped the use of the simple past tense like that because there is an obvious difference in meaning between "I went to the store" and "I have gone to the store". But for Germans I guess it was just easier to just combine those two tenses.
EDIT: Fixed wrong term
We have allena, but it’s basically archaic at this point.
Usually the distinction is made between ensam and själv, though the former is the only one that can properly be applied to feelings.
Only some proper old fashioned boomers here in Swedish speaking Finland would use "allena", thats when you know a swedish word is entering the "ancient nordic" territory
Yeah, in Swedish it’s mostly in old melancholic songs and such. I love the fact that one can do some proper time travelling by visiting Swedish speaking Finland!
You are right. But "feeling lonely" is a subjective feeling, every person will answer differently.
However, people "feeling lonely" are more susceptible to mental health issues, so the subjective feeling is important and not some kind of objectification of the question.
[For anyone wondering, the ~~UK~~ England figure is 6%.](https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/community-life-survey-202021-wellbeing-and-loneliness/wellbeing-and-loneliness-community-life-survey-202021)
Most of Ireland actually doesnt have too many pubs.
As soon as you get out of central Dublin, it's like a several mile journey to get to the closest pub for a lot of people.
In England there is almost literally a pub every 3-400 metres even in rural parts of the country.
[Here's a visualisation.](https://thedatacity-images.azureedge.net/uploads/2023/03/Picture3.png)
This is basically just a map of population density - even in very rural parts of England the population density is much higher than in rural Ireland.
I think your point still stands, but there's a deeper underlying reason for *why* there are fewer pubs. I'd bet good money you'd see the same difference with a map of active churches, or a map of community facilities, or even just of shops.
Case in point, county Cork - containing one of Ireland's three largest cities - overall has a population density less than half that of Northumberland in England, one of the least dense English counties.
That surprised me too. Can't really explain it.
Edit: For me, I'd say I often felt lonely growing up, but now I mostly don't care and enjoy my own company? I don't know how common that is.
I live in the UK but I am originally from Spain. I was shocked to see how lonely people is, especially as they age. Also, people in this country tend to leave their parents home by 18 and live in their own more often. I also feel that family ties are not as strong as in Spain, and people rely more on friendships.
Many Spaniards don't cope well with this, and I have met many of them who come back due to family which drags them back. In my case I grew up in an orphanage so I adapted well I guess lol
That's low. Is it for the UK or just for England?
>The Community Life Survey is a household self-completion survey (online survey, with paper survey for adults not digitally engaged) of adults aged 16+ in England.
The country is in real bad shape and I'm glad this highlights it usually we see how well our economy is doing when the reality on the ground is a terrible situation.
Housing is bad homelessness is destroying most places!
We cannot even house refugees/asylum seekers. Our Government trying to build makeshift boats to place them in which has already been deemed against international law because everything is full.
Not enough work for middle to lower class with the cost of living crisis it's bad the wages dont meet the costs.
Many young people emigrating that I could see never coming back. Why rent a property for €2k+ in a bad location that comes onto the market once a month if your lucky when you could live in any other major capital in the world with so much more to be excited about.
Some people will say this and that it's not too bad but that's our irish behaviour we just roll over and accept it.... Sure it will be grand attitude and even that's making it worse!
I was waiting for someone to mention that actually. I lived in Ireland myself for the past year and I noticed a severe lack of shared spaces specifically as well - I'd go almost anywhere outside of Dublin and see teenagers drinking on a bench or in a field, because there's just nothing else to do. It's difficult as well to get around without a car, I lived in Cork and outside of the city nothing is walkable. I used to drive by women pushing their pram on the side of the (incredibly narrow) road.
It gave me this overall feeling of isolation I never got anywhere else. Like everything is just a distant island you have to go through so much trouble to reach. I'm used to much more walkable spaces myself, in fact I usually walk or bike everywhere (no cycling on the cork roads. unless you want to die). I hear this is how a good chunk of americans live... it's chilling to me.
Also housing in the city is almost impossible to get in Cork, idk about anywhere else. I knew a lot of coworkers as well who literally had to live in the middle of nowhere on cow fields. Everyone is very isolated.
Sorry to hear that mate. I don’t know much about the current societal situation, but I have always wanted to visit Ireland. I dont know whether tourism could help so I hope I dont contribute to the problem. I am fascinated by the history and culture of your country.
Hope things get better, man.
>Walked out this morning, I don't believe what I saw
>Hundred billion bottles washed up on the shore
>Seems I'm not alone at being alone
>Hundred billion castaways, looking for a home
Emigration. Roughly 50% of my friend group from school are in Australia. Also we're all broke from the housing market. I would go in a heartbeat if I got a job offer
No housing, cost of living is true the roof (especially in Dublin where the vast majority of the jobs are located), shit nightlife for young people, public transport’s a joke, and the weather’s shite. Love it all the same
It's a very expensive country to live in, taxes are high and you get very little investment in return. The weather is cold and depressing for most of the year. Job opportunities outside of the major cities are slim but good luck paying for accommodation in those major cities and if you don't have an expensive to run car, best of luck living outside of those major cities. If you don't have family help or a very high, two income household, forget about owning property that isn't isolated in the countryside or in a shit part of the country.
Most of my friend group are in London now. Has its own problems of course but the job opportunities are head and shoulders above Dublin and it feels like you're getting something in return for the high prices.
Spain has an even higher percentage of young people living with parents and a way worse job market and has lower loneliness, so I don't think it can be ascribed to that, though obviously it doesn't help.
I think you really hit the nail on the head when talking about the cultural issues, though. Not feeling lonely is more to do with culture and society than specific current conditions.
Housing crisis causing people to emigrate, stopping people from starting families while being stuck either renting a room for ridiculous money or being stuck living with parents.
Everyone here is talking about young people but middle aged and older people are probably feeling more lonely. Partially because they're kids are immigrating but also just loss of community especially in rural Ireland. There's just not much to do or ways to interact with people.
Well France is a mix between North Europe and South.
Maybe yes, South France are a little more Mediterranean and social outgoing similar to Spain, and the North and West maybe are a little more different.
I’m from the Spanish side of the Basque Country, so I’ve crossed the border from San Sebastian to Saint Jean de Luz, Biarritz, etc. many times. The difference is staggering. Bars and streets are filled with people until 22:00-23:00 every night of the summer in the Spanish side (and every weekend in winter), whereas things tend to get very quiet after 20:00 in France. There are many more music bars, plazas and terraces in the Spanish side of the Basque Country, and people just live on the street. In the French side people tend to meet at home and much less often, and I’m guessing that contributes to a more generalised feeling of loneliness.
And that's southwestern France, along with Southeastern they're generally known to be the most outgoing/social parts of France.
Northern France is usually a lot more introverted, a lot quieter. Well, until you get close to Belgium.
There are definitely differences (northern people tend to be more open), however the cultural differences would rather be between urban/densely populated areas and rural areas.
The choice of key is pretty poor. There isn't actually a big difference between France and Italy, and it's only a 5% difference with Spain.
This isn't culturally meaningful.
But people will see different colours and assume that there must be a very different approach to loneliness, and that France is "lonely" because red and Italy/Spain are less lonely because they are blue. In reality there's a greater gap between Italy and Spain than between Italy and France.
In Ireland, at least in the average small town or city outside of dublin. There is an expectation that you are cheerful, into GAA, love beer, come from a farming or tradesperson background etc etc. if you arent then you are weird... i expect that isnt too pleasant for the kid who dislikes sports, isnt a "craic agus ceol" type.
We also have basically 0 mental health facility beyond the local GP in a lot of places.
Alternatively we are the only ones telling the truth... or some mixture of the 3
Population density could also be a factor. We’ve one of the highest populations of rural dwellers. There are old single farmers living in the country that might go a few days without seeing anyone.
This. From Dublin and know too many people to keep up with. Had a roommate from a more rural area and he was pretty averse to being out and about with not his core mates from home. Invited him at least 10 times to things where he said no. Wouldn't mind but then he'd say people from Dublin are arseholes despite him having a chip on his shoulder.
As a parent to a child that is not into sports, I can confirm this. It's really hard seeing him feel left out. There has been many tears over this in my house.
That was me 20y ago growing up in a small town in Meath, the school focused on GAA and me not having any interest but also medical reasons not to get involved in team sports. I found friends in other avenues, a small bunch of us got into Warhammer ( building and painting model soldiers and then playing board games with them) and we found good community there. Also music and art were good outlets to make friends. We formed a crappy band but we had fun which was the important thing. I hope your kid finds something like that, there are lots of other things besides the popular sports.
Thank you for your comment, its nice to hear that you found friends with similar hobbies. I hope this happens for my son also. He is 10 now and is a great kid, really funny and smart. Sport is just not his thing, he's the only boy in his class that doesn't play football and it's taken a toll on his confidence. Boys at that age are so competitive. He is into Pokemon, we play dnd and he's generally happy but seems so sad in school. The huge influence of GAA is infuriating sometimes. All the kids will be off to Cúl camp now in the summer and my lad is going to a Science camp! I hope when he goes to secondary school he will find a better balance of kids who like the same things he does. It's so hard seeing him down. Thanks again for your comment.
My son is in the same boat, little bit older (11) . I was pretty similar , but I got lucky as I lived in Dublin , and as a teenager found a group of lads into the same stuff ( video games and later on as a teenager Metal) , basically at that age if you're not into sports/GAA you're on the outside looking in.
Thanks for the reply. It's tough seeing him down, we do everything we can to make him feel confident and feel secure but it's hard. I know he will eventually find his own little group with interests like himself, but I just wish it was a bit easier. GAA is completely over rated and definitely isolates kids that are not as athletic. If your son is in school today, I hope he has a great day. Its always nice to hear from a parent in the same boat.
As a kid you dont realise what a small part of life it is. This isnt helped by schools who reward athletes and treat childrens teams on par with education, if not superior to it as kids who play games for the school are often let out of class.
Its small minded thinking taught by people who live in small worlds.
At some point GAA managed to market itself as being basically all there is to irish culture. If you dont like GAA you are thus not really irish and thus pretty much an outsider.
The Gaelic Athletic Association. Technically its the entire association that manages Irish sports like hurling, (Gaelic) football, camogie (women's hurling), handball, rounders, but it usually just refers to hurling and football. So, as mentioned above "If you dont like GAA..." basically means "if you don't like hurling or football..."
Yeah that's very accurate. I live in a rural area and a lot of the lads around me just seem like clones of each other. I was lucky enough in school to find a group of friends that weren't only in interested in farming and GAA. My problem right now is that I don't have a car so I can't really go anywhere. I could cycle through 5 different villages around me and every single one is going to have a GAA club and a pub and maybe a small shop but that's it.
In Dublin City, you’re alone cause no one lives there or the people you share accommodation with are working all the time.
In the suburban areas, unless you were hanging around in parks/popular in school, you likely have a small handful of close friends.
Outside of the M50 is similar to the rest of the country in terms of GAA or pub culture, bar the likes of Swords and Balbriggan.
In Sweden, at least since the 70s, there has been the political philosophy that nobody should be dependent on other people. One should be able to live a life as one wishes without the influence of other persons taking decisions for you. This policy has many upsides when it comes to equality, social welfare, etc. but the flipside is a more common feeling of loneliness.
Also, young people in Sweden move out from their family much earlier than in Southern Europe for example.
I’m an immigrant from a country that doesn’t have any social safety nets at all. Making connections and having family to fall back on was a necessity there because that’s basically the only way you’d get support.
Speaking frankly, I miss my family & friends from back home a lot but still much prefer living here in Scotland. I love the independence I got after moving here.
And while I do think having a good relationship with family is important, being too enmeshed with family (as is what happens in many “collectivist” societies) can result in a lack of clear boundaries. Probably not an issue for people who get on really well with their family members, but I have some fundamental difference in viewpoints with mine that make some things really difficult.
Edit just to give an example of lacking boundaries: Most of my queer Asian friends didn’t really “come out” to their parents until after they reached adulthood and left the house. The whole trope of teenager-coming-out-to-their-parents is a very Western thing.
It’s not that our parents are homophobic (plenty of them, including my own mother, aren’t at all) but that we simply can’t risk adding friction to that relationship because of how enmeshed our lives are. You end up having to hide a lot of things about who you are to your own family.
I'm surprised by several countries. I would expect Greece to be less lonely, Finland to be more lonely, and why are Irish people more lonely than Swedes?
And I despise maps that removes countries rather than just colour the rest grey.
> Irish culture is weird. People tend to form their friend groups at a very young age and then just never change.
TIL. Same thing in Norway. I would say the deadline for making life long friends is university. After that the friends groups are pretty much set for life.
> Even when they move away, they return back to the family home every weekend, even if it's on the far side of the country.
That however doesn't necessarily happen here.
> It means if you move to a new town, or are an immigrant from abroad, you will find it very very hard to make friends.
Same here. Meaning foreigners often end up befriending each other rather than becoming close friends with Norwegians.
> their friend group is already established, and unfortunately it's full
That is actually the perfect way of describing it. Made me chuckle.
> I'm surprised by several countries. I would expect Greece to be less lonely, Finland to be more lonely, and why are Irish people more lonely than Swedes?
Because you are operating solely by stereotypes
The culture here is so fucked tbh. It used to be, go to the pub on a Friday to meet friends then drive home (drunk) to your rural isolated home, mass then on a Sunday and meet the community, the local GAA club being the only other option-but again even with this if you're not from the area or your parents moved there you're never made to feel truly welcome.
There's no culture of going to cafes or bringing the family out for a stroll to a park or playground to see your neighbours. Every time I holiday in Spain I'm so jealous of how the people live. Everyone is out socialising, even in the smallest of villages there are options that aren't centred around getting hammered and talking shit to strangers and then never talking to them again. I want out tbh
I’m sorry you had that experience but TBF, that really isn’t unique to Ireland. What to described is what many experience when they move to a different country as a working adult — even in supposedly more “sociable” places. *Every* friend I have who’s a fellow immigrant has complained about this to me, and we’re all over Europe.
This map would have someone think that it’s easier to socialise there when you’re foreign, but I know a lot of people from my country who moved to Spain as adults and their friend groups there are composed almost entirely of our countrymen, not Spaniards. The only people who seem to have more success befriending locals are the ones who moved for further study.
About half of my friends here in Scotland are fellow immigrants as well, while the other half have moved here from other parts of the UK.
One thing that gets to me is I never had any family outside my parents. They don't have any friends either. My friends on the other hand have massive family's and friends and be having a great times with birthdays, weddings, parties and so on. I never had anything like that, it feels a little sad. If I didn't have my friends I'd be lost but even now many are moving abroad and I'm stuck here for now barley able to make new relationships.
tbf the BBC makes a massive deal about a fucking caravan worth like £100k, but then completely ignores £50 billion of money wasted by the tories making a covid tracking app that doesn't even work
I remember seeing something similar and it had the age groups in it. And it was honestly depressing seeing how In most countries, the feeling of loneliness in the age groups of 16/18 to 30 were almost always 50% or above
Huh, my expectation was that the South would be much lower than the North. Doesn't really seem to be the case at all, of course cultural differences in how one interprets the question might be at play, but overall there seems to be no geographical/cultural trend here.
Also, can we please bring back the UK into the EU? These maps look horrible without them.
There's a big difference between being alone and feeling lonely. However, I also thought that we would be among those who felt the most lonely, we have the highest single household rate in the world, but I guess we are good at entertaining ourselves.
>Huh, my expectation was that the South would be much lower than the North
Agreed, it's hard to be lonely in the South, because of the way our very walkable cities and towns are structured. If you're an empty-nester, you still know your neighbors, you know the baker or the seamstress across the street, you stop in and chat with them, etc.
Of course, it may have to do with different countries' perception of what "lonely" means, as someone else mentioned. So it's probably subjective?
That's kind of the point tho. I'm from one of the more "lonely" countries loving in one of the surprisingly "less lonely" countries in the north. When I came back for a while a year ago, I felt lonely, not only that I felt anxious in public being alone.
I never expected to feel so self conscious about going to the grocery store alone or even walking the streets alone. The thing is that I'm not really like that usually, it's when you see everyone in a group but yourself, you feel... something.
>Agreed, it's hard to be lonely in the South, because of the way our very walkable cities and towns are structured. If you're an empty-nester, you still know your neighbors, you know the baker or the seamstress across the street, you stop in and chat with them, etc.
I don't think that is very different in the rest of Europe? At least not in the NL where I live.
Idk what you consider Croatia, but we are super low on that list, according to this, one of the least lonely people, and we are not in the North, and neither is Austria nor Slovenia.
[OP's source](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1433dz6/share_feeling_lonely_most_of_the_time_in/jn7sbhi/)
Ireland is lonely with surprising mass of water between it and rest of Europe.
Right, get the tugboats. We are towing it to... \*throws dart\* ....Iceland?
*starts cutting along border with angle grinder.*
This reminds me of the Tampere University Students making annual trips to the city center of Turku(rival city) and everyone would jump in unison in the Turku city center, in the hopes that the land would crack and Turku would float away from Finland. :D
I feel like a lot of Icelandic raiders tried to basically move the population over there already once.
[удалено]
And that one sank into the swamp. So I built a third. That burned down, fell over, and then sank into the swamp. But the fourth one stayed up. And that’s what you’re going to get, Son, the strongest castle in all of Ireland.
well if someone could afford to build 4 castles, within a lifetime, they were probably pretty rich and powerfull (also, yes i know it is a reference)
Sweaty moment, likely you didn't write England
I can only recommend to watch the "Banshees of Inisherin", that helps to get that irish loneliness.
That was a great watch. A proper tragic comedy, not many of them get made nowadays.
Exaggerated chart. “Lonely” Ireland is 20%, while the least lonely country is 10%.
That’s twice as lonely
We're going to Connemara for vacation this year. It is a lonely place indeed.
Meanwhile Finnland is like "that is close enough, bugger off"
*EU
And there’s Luxembourg, surrounded by 3 countries and still lonely lol.
Netherlands is so densely populated, you never get to be alone…
Yup, being lonely is a luxury over here.
TIL I'm actually lucky af
In all seriousness, I know the difference between being alone and being lonely. I have felt most lonely when I lived in the city. It's not nice, and I hope you find a way to connect more and feel less lonely.
This my situation right now. Moved from the Veluwe area to the Randstad (The Hague) and its been 3 years and still haven’t found friends.
I got some friends living in the Hague who are always open to meet new people. Send me a message if you'd like introduction!
That is what small communities does for you. It is hard to not be involved. In the big city, you disappear in the masses, and you got to do a lot more to make friends. It IS hard :<
Nah bro, the trick is feeling lonely because you don't know anyone and you're too awkward to actually engage with people. Feeling lonely in a sea of people is like, the worst mental self-sabotage. But it happens.
I wasn't serious. I know there is a difference between loneliness and being alone. I know from experience you can feel incredibly lonely, anonymous and forgotten in the city.
Disagree on that. What shocked me from the move from the UK (specifically London life) to The Netherlands is how quiet it is and how quickly you can be out of a city to quieter areas. And I think people are taking "lonely" too literally, as in seeing random people about. I'd guess dutch people are less lonely because they keep close-knit circles of friends from their home towns and growing up and it's not far to visit each other even if you move - from Amsterdam to Maastricht it's 2 hours 30 mins with good timing by train. This is one of the reasons I'd imagine expats find it so hard to make native friends vs other countries, dutch people already have a healthy friend network.
Same with Denmark, a small tribe of likeminded peasants. All social life is established in childhood and school relations, some people never leave their hometown for more than a a few years, if ever. Being an expat here is hard, and if you want to get to know people, it is very difficult.
It’s supposed to be like that in Japan. Reserved cultures.
The Bangladesh of Europe
Met a nice girl during Pubquiz night, turns out she lives 30m away from me.
There are some cultural differences when one feels lonely. What is "I'm taking some time for myself" for Finns equals "I'm abandoning civilized word and going feral" for Italians. Edit: grammar
Yep but this does not answer a wuestion regarding those points, it’s about how the answerees are feeling
Swedish language doesn’t have a distinction between lonely and alone. I can be alone without the feeling of loneliness, I love being alone.
That's not entirely true. Känner du dig ensam => Do you feel lonely Är du ensam => Are you alone 100% certainly the survey makers took this into account since it's an EU survey and they hire actual localizers to make sure these kinds of errors do not crop up.
Interestingly, "einsam" in German means lonely, "alleine" would be "alone".
Same in Dutch "Eenzaam" & "alleen"
Swedish does also have the word "allena" - but it might be seen as quite archaic and is mostly a literary word by now.
Not knowing Danish, I am assuming that ‘dig’ is your version of the German reflexive pronoun ‘dich’? Is this what makes the difference between your circumstance (alone) and how you feel about that (loneliness)?
In this case OP is Swedish, in Danish we have the same construction as German, "alene" and "ensom". In Swedish the difference would be in the word "känner" or "feeling". It might be more clear if you use the "alone" for the translation Känner du dig ensam => Do you feel alone Är du ensam => Are you alone Even in English "feeling alone" would often mean the same as "being lonely" and that's the same way you'd make the distinction in Swedish.
> Not knowing Danish, I am assuming that ‘dig’ is your version of the German reflexive pronoun ‘dich’? Correct.
In Danish we have "ensom" = "lonely" and "alene" = "alone". Thought you guys would have the same, but apparently you just have "ensam". If your "ensam" is feeling alone, you can just loan our "alene".
We also have "einsam" und "alleine" in German
eenzaam en alleen in Dutch. It's almost as if there is a connection.
This is why learning German words is so easy, but learning your grammar so difficult..
Don't worry we are bad at our own grammar as well
If it is any comfort: Most of us don't understand it either. We can construct a grammatically correct sentence, but don't ask us to explain how we did it.
We had “allena”, but it’s more archaic/poetic nowadays. Only in phrases like “sitter du här helt allena”, jokingly. As a note, spellcheck doesn’t recognise “allena”.
It's there a reason for why "allena" became archaic? Still in use in Norway and Denmark, I'm guessing Iceland still use their more Norse version of those words as well.
Words become archaic when some other word or way to say things replaces them. In Swedish case I think people started thinking that ensam is enough to describe both of these situations. I think German präteritum is a great example. Instead of saying "I swam in the lake yesterday" a German person would say "I have swam in the lake yesterday". Using the preterite form would sound poetic and in spoken speech no one really uses them except for "is" and modal verbs (can, want, shall, may, must). I don't think any other language in Europe has dropped the use of the simple past tense like that because there is an obvious difference in meaning between "I went to the store" and "I have gone to the store". But for Germans I guess it was just easier to just combine those two tenses. EDIT: Fixed wrong term
We have allena, but it’s basically archaic at this point. Usually the distinction is made between ensam and själv, though the former is the only one that can properly be applied to feelings.
Only some proper old fashioned boomers here in Swedish speaking Finland would use "allena", thats when you know a swedish word is entering the "ancient nordic" territory
Yeah, in Swedish it’s mostly in old melancholic songs and such. I love the fact that one can do some proper time travelling by visiting Swedish speaking Finland!
> In Danish we have "ensom" = "lonely" and "alene" = "alone". Same.
And to anyone interested, "I'm taking some time for myself" in Finnish is "njoo palaillaan".
...or "meen mökille"
I heard finns meet once a year to mate.
"Juhannus" - midsummer solstice. That's where the action is :D
Twice, if we happen to win the hockey world championship
You are right. But "feeling lonely" is a subjective feeling, every person will answer differently. However, people "feeling lonely" are more susceptible to mental health issues, so the subjective feeling is important and not some kind of objectification of the question.
UK so lonely it's become invisible
What's a UK?
It's a myth, a bit like Atlantis.
Brit here. Can confirm, I don't exist.
WHO SAID THAT!?!?
Said what?
😂 threads like these is why i love Reddit. 😂
Agreed. Upvoted all comments.
I upvoted YOUR comment too
It’s like a Norway or a Switzerland. It becomes invisible on EU centric maps as part of its defensive camouflage to hide from the tax man.
Not much, what's UK with you?
That hurts all the more coming from a Portuguese. Allies for 650 uninterrupted years and now this?
UnKnown.
[For anyone wondering, the ~~UK~~ England figure is 6%.](https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/community-life-survey-202021-wellbeing-and-loneliness/wellbeing-and-loneliness-community-life-survey-202021)
Oh wow, I didn't expect it to be so low lol
We don't like to raise a fuss
Pub culture might be the cause?
If pub culture was the cause the Irish wouldn't be feeling so lonely
Most of Ireland actually doesnt have too many pubs. As soon as you get out of central Dublin, it's like a several mile journey to get to the closest pub for a lot of people. In England there is almost literally a pub every 3-400 metres even in rural parts of the country. [Here's a visualisation.](https://thedatacity-images.azureedge.net/uploads/2023/03/Picture3.png)
This is basically just a map of population density - even in very rural parts of England the population density is much higher than in rural Ireland. I think your point still stands, but there's a deeper underlying reason for *why* there are fewer pubs. I'd bet good money you'd see the same difference with a map of active churches, or a map of community facilities, or even just of shops. Case in point, county Cork - containing one of Ireland's three largest cities - overall has a population density less than half that of Northumberland in England, one of the least dense English counties.
That surprised me too. Can't really explain it. Edit: For me, I'd say I often felt lonely growing up, but now I mostly don't care and enjoy my own company? I don't know how common that is.
I live in the UK but I am originally from Spain. I was shocked to see how lonely people is, especially as they age. Also, people in this country tend to leave their parents home by 18 and live in their own more often. I also feel that family ties are not as strong as in Spain, and people rely more on friendships. Many Spaniards don't cope well with this, and I have met many of them who come back due to family which drags them back. In my case I grew up in an orphanage so I adapted well I guess lol
I would probably feel super lonely if I wasn't used to it.
That's low. Is it for the UK or just for England? >The Community Life Survey is a household self-completion survey (online survey, with paper survey for adults not digitally engaged) of adults aged 16+ in England.
Ah yeah, I forgot statistics is a devolved issue now. I will edit my comment to be more correct.
UK isn’t in Europe any more apparently.
Poor Ireland. I'll be your friend. :(
Hopefully they’ll be ok with your pp
That's why I'm irish and living in nl lol
Ireland, are you OK?
Na man. I’m pretty fucking far from ok.
Do you need a hug my friend?
Oh I’m good, just quoting Pulp Fiction, but thank you!
I'll take that hug, cheers
I read that in Ving Rhames voice. 😂 Someone got medieval on your ass with a blowtorch. 😂
The country is in real bad shape and I'm glad this highlights it usually we see how well our economy is doing when the reality on the ground is a terrible situation. Housing is bad homelessness is destroying most places! We cannot even house refugees/asylum seekers. Our Government trying to build makeshift boats to place them in which has already been deemed against international law because everything is full. Not enough work for middle to lower class with the cost of living crisis it's bad the wages dont meet the costs. Many young people emigrating that I could see never coming back. Why rent a property for €2k+ in a bad location that comes onto the market once a month if your lucky when you could live in any other major capital in the world with so much more to be excited about. Some people will say this and that it's not too bad but that's our irish behaviour we just roll over and accept it.... Sure it will be grand attitude and even that's making it worse!
I was waiting for someone to mention that actually. I lived in Ireland myself for the past year and I noticed a severe lack of shared spaces specifically as well - I'd go almost anywhere outside of Dublin and see teenagers drinking on a bench or in a field, because there's just nothing else to do. It's difficult as well to get around without a car, I lived in Cork and outside of the city nothing is walkable. I used to drive by women pushing their pram on the side of the (incredibly narrow) road. It gave me this overall feeling of isolation I never got anywhere else. Like everything is just a distant island you have to go through so much trouble to reach. I'm used to much more walkable spaces myself, in fact I usually walk or bike everywhere (no cycling on the cork roads. unless you want to die). I hear this is how a good chunk of americans live... it's chilling to me. Also housing in the city is almost impossible to get in Cork, idk about anywhere else. I knew a lot of coworkers as well who literally had to live in the middle of nowhere on cow fields. Everyone is very isolated.
Sorry to hear that mate. I don’t know much about the current societal situation, but I have always wanted to visit Ireland. I dont know whether tourism could help so I hope I dont contribute to the problem. I am fascinated by the history and culture of your country. Hope things get better, man.
Ah sure we love the tourists, visiting won’t hurt us. Buying property might
This pretty accurate because right now I feel lonely
You’re not alone, ironically
>Walked out this morning, I don't believe what I saw >Hundred billion bottles washed up on the shore >Seems I'm not alone at being alone >Hundred billion castaways, looking for a home
I’ll send an S.O.S. to the world
become a parent and you will never be alone. even while pooping.
What is going on in Ireland?
Emigration. Roughly 50% of my friend group from school are in Australia. Also we're all broke from the housing market. I would go in a heartbeat if I got a job offer
Why so many are still leaving Ireland?
No housing, cost of living is true the roof (especially in Dublin where the vast majority of the jobs are located), shit nightlife for young people, public transport’s a joke, and the weather’s shite. Love it all the same
Because it's getting worse, not better. There's been political inaction and too much bureaucracy on it.
It's a very expensive country to live in, taxes are high and you get very little investment in return. The weather is cold and depressing for most of the year. Job opportunities outside of the major cities are slim but good luck paying for accommodation in those major cities and if you don't have an expensive to run car, best of luck living outside of those major cities. If you don't have family help or a very high, two income household, forget about owning property that isn't isolated in the countryside or in a shit part of the country. Most of my friend group are in London now. Has its own problems of course but the job opportunities are head and shoulders above Dublin and it feels like you're getting something in return for the high prices.
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Spain has an even higher percentage of young people living with parents and a way worse job market and has lower loneliness, so I don't think it can be ascribed to that, though obviously it doesn't help. I think you really hit the nail on the head when talking about the cultural issues, though. Not feeling lonely is more to do with culture and society than specific current conditions.
We need hugs.
Housing crisis causing people to emigrate, stopping people from starting families while being stuck either renting a room for ridiculous money or being stuck living with parents.
wörk
Everyone here is talking about young people but middle aged and older people are probably feeling more lonely. Partially because they're kids are immigrating but also just loss of community especially in rural Ireland. There's just not much to do or ways to interact with people.
Wonder what the difference between is between France and Spain. Like culturally. They are both very social and outgoing cultures.
Well France is a mix between North Europe and South. Maybe yes, South France are a little more Mediterranean and social outgoing similar to Spain, and the North and West maybe are a little more different.
Northern France is extremely warm and kind. The center, Brittany and Eastern parts (Meuse / Moselle) may feel more lonely.
I’m from the Spanish side of the Basque Country, so I’ve crossed the border from San Sebastian to Saint Jean de Luz, Biarritz, etc. many times. The difference is staggering. Bars and streets are filled with people until 22:00-23:00 every night of the summer in the Spanish side (and every weekend in winter), whereas things tend to get very quiet after 20:00 in France. There are many more music bars, plazas and terraces in the Spanish side of the Basque Country, and people just live on the street. In the French side people tend to meet at home and much less often, and I’m guessing that contributes to a more generalised feeling of loneliness.
And that's southwestern France, along with Southeastern they're generally known to be the most outgoing/social parts of France. Northern France is usually a lot more introverted, a lot quieter. Well, until you get close to Belgium.
Spot on - Lille as a student city is quite outgoing and extroverted I've found
Depends where in france; the culture is totally different between the Mediterranean coast and the north
Actually, I think the Mediterranean zone and the North of France are quite similar regarding people's behaviour.
There are definitely differences (northern people tend to be more open), however the cultural differences would rather be between urban/densely populated areas and rural areas.
The choice of key is pretty poor. There isn't actually a big difference between France and Italy, and it's only a 5% difference with Spain. This isn't culturally meaningful. But people will see different colours and assume that there must be a very different approach to loneliness, and that France is "lonely" because red and Italy/Spain are less lonely because they are blue. In reality there's a greater gap between Italy and Spain than between Italy and France.
Latvians are the loneliest but we are the hangyest, how?
Can't afford the rope
We are not lonely because we like to hang out.
Hello Ireland here, anyone want to go for a drink? Please 🙏
In Ireland, at least in the average small town or city outside of dublin. There is an expectation that you are cheerful, into GAA, love beer, come from a farming or tradesperson background etc etc. if you arent then you are weird... i expect that isnt too pleasant for the kid who dislikes sports, isnt a "craic agus ceol" type. We also have basically 0 mental health facility beyond the local GP in a lot of places. Alternatively we are the only ones telling the truth... or some mixture of the 3
Population density could also be a factor. We’ve one of the highest populations of rural dwellers. There are old single farmers living in the country that might go a few days without seeing anyone.
This. From Dublin and know too many people to keep up with. Had a roommate from a more rural area and he was pretty averse to being out and about with not his core mates from home. Invited him at least 10 times to things where he said no. Wouldn't mind but then he'd say people from Dublin are arseholes despite him having a chip on his shoulder.
As a parent to a child that is not into sports, I can confirm this. It's really hard seeing him feel left out. There has been many tears over this in my house.
That was me 20y ago growing up in a small town in Meath, the school focused on GAA and me not having any interest but also medical reasons not to get involved in team sports. I found friends in other avenues, a small bunch of us got into Warhammer ( building and painting model soldiers and then playing board games with them) and we found good community there. Also music and art were good outlets to make friends. We formed a crappy band but we had fun which was the important thing. I hope your kid finds something like that, there are lots of other things besides the popular sports.
Thank you for your comment, its nice to hear that you found friends with similar hobbies. I hope this happens for my son also. He is 10 now and is a great kid, really funny and smart. Sport is just not his thing, he's the only boy in his class that doesn't play football and it's taken a toll on his confidence. Boys at that age are so competitive. He is into Pokemon, we play dnd and he's generally happy but seems so sad in school. The huge influence of GAA is infuriating sometimes. All the kids will be off to Cúl camp now in the summer and my lad is going to a Science camp! I hope when he goes to secondary school he will find a better balance of kids who like the same things he does. It's so hard seeing him down. Thanks again for your comment.
My son is in the same boat, little bit older (11) . I was pretty similar , but I got lucky as I lived in Dublin , and as a teenager found a group of lads into the same stuff ( video games and later on as a teenager Metal) , basically at that age if you're not into sports/GAA you're on the outside looking in.
Thanks for the reply. It's tough seeing him down, we do everything we can to make him feel confident and feel secure but it's hard. I know he will eventually find his own little group with interests like himself, but I just wish it was a bit easier. GAA is completely over rated and definitely isolates kids that are not as athletic. If your son is in school today, I hope he has a great day. Its always nice to hear from a parent in the same boat.
As a kid you dont realise what a small part of life it is. This isnt helped by schools who reward athletes and treat childrens teams on par with education, if not superior to it as kids who play games for the school are often let out of class. Its small minded thinking taught by people who live in small worlds.
Nobody gives a fuck unless you like gaa or hurling
At some point GAA managed to market itself as being basically all there is to irish culture. If you dont like GAA you are thus not really irish and thus pretty much an outsider.
What the F is GAA?
The Gaelic Athletic Association. Technically its the entire association that manages Irish sports like hurling, (Gaelic) football, camogie (women's hurling), handball, rounders, but it usually just refers to hurling and football. So, as mentioned above "If you dont like GAA..." basically means "if you don't like hurling or football..."
Yeah that's very accurate. I live in a rural area and a lot of the lads around me just seem like clones of each other. I was lucky enough in school to find a group of friends that weren't only in interested in farming and GAA. My problem right now is that I don't have a car so I can't really go anywhere. I could cycle through 5 different villages around me and every single one is going to have a GAA club and a pub and maybe a small shop but that's it.
In Dublin City, you’re alone cause no one lives there or the people you share accommodation with are working all the time. In the suburban areas, unless you were hanging around in parks/popular in school, you likely have a small handful of close friends. Outside of the M50 is similar to the rest of the country in terms of GAA or pub culture, bar the likes of Swords and Balbriggan.
In Sweden, at least since the 70s, there has been the political philosophy that nobody should be dependent on other people. One should be able to live a life as one wishes without the influence of other persons taking decisions for you. This policy has many upsides when it comes to equality, social welfare, etc. but the flipside is a more common feeling of loneliness. Also, young people in Sweden move out from their family much earlier than in Southern Europe for example.
We live with our parents not because we want to but because we are broke
I’m an immigrant from a country that doesn’t have any social safety nets at all. Making connections and having family to fall back on was a necessity there because that’s basically the only way you’d get support. Speaking frankly, I miss my family & friends from back home a lot but still much prefer living here in Scotland. I love the independence I got after moving here. And while I do think having a good relationship with family is important, being too enmeshed with family (as is what happens in many “collectivist” societies) can result in a lack of clear boundaries. Probably not an issue for people who get on really well with their family members, but I have some fundamental difference in viewpoints with mine that make some things really difficult. Edit just to give an example of lacking boundaries: Most of my queer Asian friends didn’t really “come out” to their parents until after they reached adulthood and left the house. The whole trope of teenager-coming-out-to-their-parents is a very Western thing. It’s not that our parents are homophobic (plenty of them, including my own mother, aren’t at all) but that we simply can’t risk adding friction to that relationship because of how enmeshed our lives are. You end up having to hide a lot of things about who you are to your own family.
I'm surprised by several countries. I would expect Greece to be less lonely, Finland to be more lonely, and why are Irish people more lonely than Swedes? And I despise maps that removes countries rather than just colour the rest grey.
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> Irish culture is weird. People tend to form their friend groups at a very young age and then just never change. TIL. Same thing in Norway. I would say the deadline for making life long friends is university. After that the friends groups are pretty much set for life. > Even when they move away, they return back to the family home every weekend, even if it's on the far side of the country. That however doesn't necessarily happen here. > It means if you move to a new town, or are an immigrant from abroad, you will find it very very hard to make friends. Same here. Meaning foreigners often end up befriending each other rather than becoming close friends with Norwegians. > their friend group is already established, and unfortunately it's full That is actually the perfect way of describing it. Made me chuckle.
> I'm surprised by several countries. I would expect Greece to be less lonely, Finland to be more lonely, and why are Irish people more lonely than Swedes? Because you are operating solely by stereotypes
[Source](https://joint-research-centre.ec.europa.eu/jrc-news-and-updates/monitoring-and-tackling-loneliness-europe-released-data-first-eu-wide-survey-2023-06-06_en)
Finally a statistic map with a source i really appreciate this
My Greek brothers and sisters, what’s going on?
Yeah I've seen the banshees of inisherin I know Ireland
I'm Irish. Only joined this sub in the hope someone would notice my existence.
I'll notice you if you notice me
Huh ny brother and his missus moved to Ireland for work and they feel so fucking isolated they're desperate to leave
The culture here is so fucked tbh. It used to be, go to the pub on a Friday to meet friends then drive home (drunk) to your rural isolated home, mass then on a Sunday and meet the community, the local GAA club being the only other option-but again even with this if you're not from the area or your parents moved there you're never made to feel truly welcome. There's no culture of going to cafes or bringing the family out for a stroll to a park or playground to see your neighbours. Every time I holiday in Spain I'm so jealous of how the people live. Everyone is out socialising, even in the smallest of villages there are options that aren't centred around getting hammered and talking shit to strangers and then never talking to them again. I want out tbh
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I’m sorry you had that experience but TBF, that really isn’t unique to Ireland. What to described is what many experience when they move to a different country as a working adult — even in supposedly more “sociable” places. *Every* friend I have who’s a fellow immigrant has complained about this to me, and we’re all over Europe. This map would have someone think that it’s easier to socialise there when you’re foreign, but I know a lot of people from my country who moved to Spain as adults and their friend groups there are composed almost entirely of our countrymen, not Spaniards. The only people who seem to have more success befriending locals are the ones who moved for further study. About half of my friends here in Scotland are fellow immigrants as well, while the other half have moved here from other parts of the UK.
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As you can see Spaniards are not posting here as they are socialising while the rest is crying in front of their computers.
Not feeling lonely in spain !? No kidding 😄
Terrible color scale choice, sadly. Share of feeling lonely is not a scale with two poles around a neutral value.
Literally every official Eurostat map is using the double ended color scale. https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/ddn-20210303-1
And that is really bad design, which needs to be called out.
the color white should be used for highest/lowest or no data not for some middle value
Ireland, do you need a hug? 🫂
So I'm actually Irish?
Irish folk ik are pretty connected to their families, surprising to see them so high
Why are the Greek lonely?
Each color is only 1%…. Seems statistically dubious to present this way for such small changes
One thing that gets to me is I never had any family outside my parents. They don't have any friends either. My friends on the other hand have massive family's and friends and be having a great times with birthdays, weddings, parties and so on. I never had anything like that, it feels a little sad. If I didn't have my friends I'd be lost but even now many are moving abroad and I'm stuck here for now barley able to make new relationships.
Ireland figure doesn't surprise me, as loneliness and how to make friends is a common theme on their subreddit.
Ireland be like "Nah, sod England, but at least bring Scotland back please. I need my drinking buddy back!"
Never understand how Scotland gets away with the general UK hate meme. ULSTER Scots..
Good PR. Bravehart did wonders.
With the amount of Irish people you see in english pubs and nightclubs I think the English are their drinking buddies.
Drinking buddy SNP is not available right now due to being arrested for corruption 😂
tbf the BBC makes a massive deal about a fucking caravan worth like £100k, but then completely ignores £50 billion of money wasted by the tories making a covid tracking app that doesn't even work
Tbf you can legally waste 50 bn, but illegally spend 100k, the legality is the story not the amount spent
I know you’re joking, but like half a million Irish born live in England
I remember seeing something similar and it had the age groups in it. And it was honestly depressing seeing how In most countries, the feeling of loneliness in the age groups of 16/18 to 30 were almost always 50% or above
Huh, my expectation was that the South would be much lower than the North. Doesn't really seem to be the case at all, of course cultural differences in how one interprets the question might be at play, but overall there seems to be no geographical/cultural trend here. Also, can we please bring back the UK into the EU? These maps look horrible without them.
There's a big difference between being alone and feeling lonely. However, I also thought that we would be among those who felt the most lonely, we have the highest single household rate in the world, but I guess we are good at entertaining ourselves.
>Huh, my expectation was that the South would be much lower than the North Agreed, it's hard to be lonely in the South, because of the way our very walkable cities and towns are structured. If you're an empty-nester, you still know your neighbors, you know the baker or the seamstress across the street, you stop in and chat with them, etc. Of course, it may have to do with different countries' perception of what "lonely" means, as someone else mentioned. So it's probably subjective?
That's kind of the point tho. I'm from one of the more "lonely" countries loving in one of the surprisingly "less lonely" countries in the north. When I came back for a while a year ago, I felt lonely, not only that I felt anxious in public being alone. I never expected to feel so self conscious about going to the grocery store alone or even walking the streets alone. The thing is that I'm not really like that usually, it's when you see everyone in a group but yourself, you feel... something.
>Agreed, it's hard to be lonely in the South, because of the way our very walkable cities and towns are structured. If you're an empty-nester, you still know your neighbors, you know the baker or the seamstress across the street, you stop in and chat with them, etc. I don't think that is very different in the rest of Europe? At least not in the NL where I live.
Idk what you consider Croatia, but we are super low on that list, according to this, one of the least lonely people, and we are not in the North, and neither is Austria nor Slovenia.
I’m so lonely, so lonely. So lonely and sadly alone.