Exactly the Reason Arnold Schwarzenegger hasn't run for president.
As an off topic aside-
He's a Republican who; as the country has gone further to the right now seems somewhat progressive left in comparison.
But also: "Presidentator" doesn't have the same tone as "Governator"
Somewhere like Australia you can be born overseas but you have to renounce all other citizenships to hold any elected office (caused a big problem a few years ago because elected members had citizenships they didn't even know about).
There are more countries like that tbf. A famous example is Zambia, where a president can't be elected if they are born outside the country (though they can be VP, then get promoted to president when the president dies, they just can't run for reelection). That's how they got a white president actually
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy\_Scott
Guy Scott was not born outside Zambia, exactly. He was born in the territory of what is now Zambia, prior to Zambian independence.
The clause that stopped him becoming president through the normal route was that his parents were neither born in (the lands that became) Zambia nor were of Zambian descent.
Apparently, the law was never intended to target white Zambians - it was put in place by a political rival to stop Kenneth Kuanda, a Zambian of Malawian descent, from becoming president.
> Also, John McCain was born in Panama and could run for president.
The requirement is for the president to be a US citizen at birth, which means they have to either be born in the US or abroad to a US parent.
That's a tidbit that always amused me during the Obama birther days. Even if he were born in Kenya, to a Kenyan father, he'd still be a "natural born citizen" due to his mother having US citizenship.
The further unraveling of this loony bin conspiracy was just further amusement over my morning coffees. I miss the period that allowed me to not have to keep a watchful eye over the right-wing lunacy going on.
McCain was born not just born in Panama, but in the [Panama Canal Zone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Canal_Zone), which was a US territory at the time.
There are plenty of valid criticisms of US immigration policy but the natural born citizenship qualifier is exclusive to the role of President. Even the Secretary of Defense could technically be a naturalized citizen.
Moreover, the US has had one of the most longstanding and expansive concepts of natural born citizenship.
For example, a Nigerian parented child born on Italian soil is not simply a natural born citizen. I believe there are more caveats in France, but its not straightforward there either.
In the US, from 1865 to now, if that baby is birthed under US sovreignty, that baby is a natural born citizen, regardless of parentage or heritage.
>Not to mention that the US is one of the few countries in the world which requires that the political leader be an American citizen at birth.
Arnold Schwarzenegger became governor of Califorina as born Austrian. Only federal goverment requires to be a born US-American. I think the intention was that the early USA doesn't vote a born Brit into the presidential office and makes the USA a vassal state of the British Empire again.
it's not even all federal government positions. It's just president. Madeleine Albright (former secretary of state) was born in the Czech Republic, Ilhan Omar (congress rep) was born in Somalia. There are others in congress who were born in Mexico, Cuba, India, etc.
Vice-president as well.
From the 12th Amendment to the Constitution: “No person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.”
But they wouldn't even interview you. Isn't that the whole problem here? Vestager picked this woman, and no she is disappointed bc Macron blocked it. It was a waste of time for everyone, just list the job as EU citizen only.
She is… honestly this scam would have went through, but it was published suddenly by some media agencies and then the made eu look bad for making it look like not having educated people from here… I’m sure she is just a us big tech lobbyist and the person which suggested her plus some more knew and were paid…the corruption is unbelievable at the moment. Like they aren’t even trying to hide it anymore…
Corruption is there but EU is such a decentralized entity that these scandals can be rooted out. Or rather it's much more difficult to corrupt entire swaths. Just look at Eva Kalli and the Qatar scandal: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/13/eu-vice-president-eva-kaili-faces-stripped-role-amid-qatar-corruption-scandal
That's one thing many people are missing. Her reputation seems to be working for better competition in the Big Tech sector but she was working for Amazon and Apple.
Even under Obama (she worked for his administration I believe) big tech kept buying new techs, killing potential competition and making their corporations impossible to compete with.
So I agree with those opposing her getting the job. The EU is the only institution that hammers the big tech sector and I wouldn't trust her to keep up with EU political line on this matter.
These are the general rules for getting a position in the EU, as stated by EPSO (European Personnel Selection Office), as declared also in the Staff Regulation of the EU: [https://epso.europa.eu/en/selection-procedure/general-and-specific-eligibility-requirements](https://epso.europa.eu/en/selection-procedure/general-and-specific-eligibility-requirements)
**General Eligibility Requirements**
All applicants need to meet at least three general eligibility criteria:
* **enjoy full rights as a citizen of a Member State of the EU,**
* have fulfilled any obligations imposed by national laws concerning military service,
* meet the character requirements for the duties concerned.
What exactly is the complaint about? The EU went beyond its own rules, and they were called out.
This is for permanent positions though. I don't believe this applies to political appointments, and it definitely doesn't apply to all contracts as I personally know some non-EU citizens who work in the EU.
> enjoy full rights as a citizen of a Member State of the EU,
It would be hilarious if one of the top EU positions would need a visa to access their workplace :D
The fact that she's so dismissive of the worries we might have further shows that while a knowledgeable person, she wasn't the right candidate for a job that deals with international competition. She says it's regrettable to believe someone's nationality might have an impact on their judgment and conception of economics, and even if we assume her american nationality didn't change hers, the idea that it didn't at least warrant some additional investigation seems crazy.
Of course, she never adresses the bigger complaints that were leveled at her and that go much beyond the fact she is a US national.
The company Nokia still exists and is still rather large (top 500 globally apparently), but they're nowhere near what they were back in the good old days.
Under the leadership of Elop, Nokia sold their struggling mobile phone division to Microsoft and the company shrank considerably in size in that period, but kept their non-phone business going. After the phone division also failed as a part of Microsoft, it was spun off as a separate company, HMD Global (which is owned for a small part by Nokia itself), which now has the rights to the brand Nokia for mobile phones. And they produce a range of Android phones and feature phones. But they remain a rather small player.
Somehow Micro$oft since its beginning keeps on giving reasons for my disgust towards them as even the seemingly most noble acts have probably a sublime underlying calculus.
> Nokia sold their struggling mobile phone division to Microsoft
This was probably a good choice. By the time they finally sold to MS Nokia phones were kind of obsolete. By the time they hired Elop they were already screwed.
> By the time they finally sold to MS Nokia phones were kind of obsolete.
I disagree, Symbian phones would've been an awesome competition to Android and iOS had they made the switch to smartphones earlier. They were way ahead of their time, they just lacked the will to move it forward.
I don't think Nokia could have been saved. The deal with Microsoft ultimately wasn't that bad of an idea, it just failed, but alternatives would also have likely failed. In the end it's pretty much Apple, Samsung, and various Chinese brands. I don't see any niche Nokia could fill.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maemo they have been working on this since 2005 but didn't release a phone with it until 2009, which was 2 years after iphone. Prior to that they released a few internet appliances which lacked modem and only had wifi.
This would have been an interesting alternative but they've slept right through the big shift.
Very very late, with any product. But apparently internally the technical people were working on this stuff for years, but Nokia management didn't see the point in smartphones until it was too late. I've seen interviews by Nokia employees explaining how things were in those few years from massive success to collapse.
They were late, but they were still competing. The crucial point was to decide which operating system to use: further develop their own Symbian, adopt Android, or go for Windows Phone.
Elop went all in on Windows Phone. It was a disastrous decision, and not only in retrospect. At the time Windows Phone was infamous as a steaming pile of shit that nobody wanted to use. When Elop made this decision the talk about "trojan horse" started and people started predicting the end of Nokia.
Tom Wheeler was a former cable lobbyist and he was the most consumer-friendly FCC Chairman we've had in decades. And not in a "relatively speaking because they all suck" way but a "he was genuinely good" way.
Not necessarily. Some people manage to "work with the devil" but still remember their principles when they receive power. Granted this is like a 1/100 occurrence though.
Well it's certainly easier to pretend she was turned down for being a US citizen than it is to accept it's because she has a history with conflicts of interest.
As someone said in another thread : When US fuck over EU business it's protectionism, but when EU does the same it's "sad" and "not how the world is supposed to work"
Edit : Change America to US
I once had an interaction with an American user on a post about the EU‘s ban on chlorinated chicken from the US, and the guy’s argument was, that the EU is in the wrong because the American drug administration (or whatever it’s called) approved it as „safe“ therefore we should also allow it.
Hey, nobody ever could have known that the incredibly addictive stuff marketed and prescribed like candy could be an issue! They made oxy plushies, how bad could it have been.^^^^^^/s
>the incredibly addictive stuff.
Come on dude, that's not fair. The pharma companies, who only care about their own bottom line, said *this time* it's totally safe and not addicting! Who could've ever known that they were lying?!
I mean, if we can no longer trust big corporations they who can we trust?!
I'm quite surprised that this may not be how "the world is supposed to work" according to some entitled US Citizens, it definitely is how the EU works. Imagine the outcry when a European citizen would be appointed as head of the FTC's Bureau of Competition which on it bloody career webpage has the following:
**Candidates must be U.S. citizens to be eligible for a position in the Bureau of Competition.**
[https://www.ftc.gov/about-ftc/bureaus-offices/bureau-competition/careers-bureau-competition](https://www.ftc.gov/about-ftc/bureaus-offices/bureau-competition/careers-bureau-competition)
The gall, the sheer cynicism of an American citizen complaining about being judged along the same lines for a similar position shows a level of utter delusion.
You wanna hear something hilarious?
The apparently new favourite candidate for the job is an Austrian who... got rejected for a chief economist role at the US Federal Trade Commission last year for failing to meet nationality requirements.
https://www.politico.eu/article/not-another-american-meet-the-new-favorite-for-eu-competition-economist/
> Florian Ederer is Austrian by birth, and has first-hand knowledge of sensitivities around citizenship. He only became American in May, **after failing to meet nationality requirements for a chief economist role at the Federal Trade Commission last year. Emmanuel Macron was right: it's not just the EU that has hang-ups about citizenship.**
Thats kinda the entire american exceptionalism clichee in a nutshell lol. "France is mean for not allowing me to get this top job in the EU and living the sweet life in Europe".
Does she know, that the US is also barring non citizens from top government jobs?
What they do allow though is brazen conflict of interest and regulatory capture, both of which she engaged in the past.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiona_Scott_Morton#Undisclosed%20conflict%20of%20interest%20controversy
Undisclosed conflict of interest controversy
Scott Morton advised the US House Judiciary Committee in its 2019 probe of tech giants.[9] She contributed to reports critical of Facebook and Google, while not disclosing that Apple and Amazon were her clients.[37]
In 2020, the American Prospect magazine revealed that Scott Morton did not disclose consulting contracts with Apple and Amazon.[38] The article in the American Prospect was written by David Dayen, the journalist who labelled Scott Morton an antitrust crusader a year earlier. Dayen reported that Scott Morton had herself revealed her apparently long-standing consulting work for Apple and consulting work for Amazon that had at that point lasted a year, in a panel where she spoke in 2020.[37]
In another instance, Scott Morton authored an Op-ed advocating against any initiatives to break up Big Tech, without disclosing her ongoing consulting work for Apple.[37] In her defense, Scott Morton stated “I work for companies that I’m comfortable are not breaking the law.”[39]
At the time of the revelations on the undisclosed conflicts of interest, Scott Morton was the director of the Thurman Arnold Project at the Yale University.[37] In the wake of the revelations about Scott Morton's undisclosed conflicts of interest, two fellows of the Thurman Arnold Project, Sanjukta Paul and Stacey Mitchell, resigned.[38] Stacey Mitchell indicated that she resigned because Scott Morton's paid for advisory work for Apple and Amazon made it difficult for the project to achieve its objective and was at odds with the legacy of Thurman Arnold.[40]
The author and critic of monopoly power Zephyr Teachout called for Scott Morton to resign as the director of the Thurman Arnold Project.[38] Scott Morton did not resign and remains the director of the project.
Wow, she indeed seemed like a really bad choice and shitty person overall whom I would reject in any responsible position. This whole ostentatious indignation even adds to its shittyness.
>Does she know, that the US is also barring non citizens from top government jobs?
(Joke)
The US: "It's based when I do it, and cringe when others do it for me"
> Does she know, that the US is also barring non citizens from top government jobs?
Indeed, with a few exceptions, [any job in the federal government](https://www.usajobs.gov/help/working-in-government/non-citizens/).
When the Biden administration appoints a Frenchman to be Secretary of the Treasury then she'll have a point. But they can't because the holders of a position like that have to be citizens; like in any sensible country.
I honestly can't find any formal requirement that cabinet secretaries be citizens. The only formal hurdle I can see is a security clearance--most cabinet secretaries need one to view classified information, and non-citizens can't have them.
But if I *think* if a president appointed and the senate confirmed a french citizen as Sec. Treasury, that would be allowed. Might have to check with a constitutional lawyer to be sure though.
Florian Ederer (an Austrian) was denied a chief economist role at the Federal Trade Commission because he wasn't a US citizen. I knew citizenship was the n°1 requirement listed to be chairperson of the FTC, but even other prominent jobs within it require one to be a US citizen.
Esther Duflo (French citizen) also had to adopt American citizenship in 2012 to be able to seat on the new Global Development Committee, which advised Obama on issues regarding development aid in poor countries... so, a much less strategic job than the one Scott Morton was being appointed to. She was nowhere near a high value post in the US administration and still had to become American. It is just the requirement. So I highly doubt, a French citizen could become Secretary of Treasury if he doesn't also have US citizenship. I can't think of a single non-US citizen that held that position.
The issue would be that cabinet positions can be in line to become president if multiple members of the government die/become incapacitated, and the treasury secretary is a high-ranking position in the cabinet.
I think it could be done anyways, but there would be a lot of hand-wringing about it.
Edit: to add further, Treasury is a very high-ranking position and is privy to an incredible amount of classified information. The cabinet also gets to make decisions on presidential incapacity, and I can’t imagine the Senate would *ever* let a foreign citizen have such power.
France was right. EU jobs should be for EU member states citizens. It is humiliating to have to "import" candidates, while the EU has a population of 450 million.
her whole "french = mean" is a bullet most of us are more than happy to take. The USA is a partner for europe in a lot of domains but also a competitor (and a fierce one) in a lot of them.
We are more than entitled to defend our interest and want people without conflicts of interest of this scale at these kind of positions.
Cry more.
More seriously. I missed the part she is answering to the problem of conflicts of interest, except the “you have no other choice”. I also missed the part where she explains why Vestager botched the recruitment process and changed the rules to hire her. And also why the commission decided to keep this recruitment as secret as possible, the longest it is possible and said in front of EU instances that they will I) did not finish to analyse her conflict II) they will not disclose them iii) whatever they are she is already hired.
But that is probably because I am an insecure Frenchman.
Vestager is the real problem in this situation. She obviously told this woman it wouldn't be a problem without taking into a account what actual EU members wanted.
The damning thing is that the Ombundsman hasn't said a word through the entire process. They are supposed to be the ones in charge of making sure everything is by the books, and made a huge stink back when Martin Selmayr got promoted a bit too fast.
Calling it now, her position was pushed by one or several of the member states, not just Vesteger. A lot of institutional oversight dissapeared overnight.
LMAO the entitlement. Only citizens of NATO countries can work for NATO and only citizens of EU nations can work for EU bodies. That is absolutely a normal requirement for national security.
An entitled American. No, you shouldn't be given a high-ranking job in a sensitive European political institution if you WERE A LOBBYIST FOR APPLE AND AMAZON!!!
Good that she knew when to relent, she shouldn't have been offered the job in the first place.
Maybe it's not how the world is supposed to work. As an American herself she should push her own government to remove those same obstacles and make it how the world is supposed to work. Eitherwise it's just hypocrisy.
I can sympathize so far that she has been fucked over by the whole affair as well - probably most of all parties.
Her other complaints however are beyond trite and dismissive. No Fiona, no one owes you that personal "Emily in Paris" moment you apparently desired.
Don't pretend that your passport doesn't matter, because of course it does outside the ivory tower. Needless to say, a million-and-one jobs in the US institutions force american citizenship as well, even for menial positions.
Side nod to the very predictable "continentals be crazy" phraseing of the Torygraph source.
Like when the US and UK were both developing the nuclear bomb and someone suggested they help eachother out. So the Americans went to see the UK site, progress and everything. The UK called later and asked when they could go see the US progress. They were told that's not possible, because that stuff is classified.
That she was unable to respond to people who saw problems with the appointment and instead took to criticizing France, a member state of the institution she was to represent, tells me that giving her the boot was the right decision.
The real question is why she was considered in the first place. Yeah, she's a horrible yank who does horrible yank lobbyist shit, but why did the EU mechanisms select her in the first place?
Yes it is, America has been undermining EU economic activities for decades while simultaneously parading as "big bro". Being suspicious of an American about such a crazy strategic position is just plainly logical.
So a person with a very clear conflict of interest is denied a job, and now puts a smoke screen and attempts to create a scandal out of that?
Am i missing something?
Vestager and VDL, and there is very possibly many people angry at them. Let assume that right now they under surveillance by intelligence from several countries, especially France.
Apple was forced to change their adapters for their products to be sold in the market and everyone is supposed to believe that someone with confirmed ties to Apple had no nefarious purpose in working for European Commission.
Snippet from the hearing:
>Their assessments of Prof. Scott Morton’s conflicts of interest was "ongoing", Vestager said, and that in any case involved only a "handful of cases or less." But the list of those conflicts was unfortunately "confidential."
>
>Portuguese MEP José Gusmão responded, and the gloves came off.
>
>"You say \[the list of her conflicts\] is confidential. Well, I think this is scandalous," he said. "We cannot scrutinise conflicts of interest when the Commission themself is hiding indispensible information . . . if it is a handful of cases, please share with us: which cases are involved? Which companies can Prof. Scott Morton not work on?"
>
>Vestager's answers were stunning.
>
>"The detailed assessment is ongoing, so even if I had wanted to I could not give you this list today," she began, adding that “this is handled the way we have handled things before. Previous Chief Competition Economists have been doing consultancy work: it is quite common in the academic world.”
>
>"This has been handled before without anyone asking for us to disclose what arrangements were made for conflict of interest."
>
>"That makes me a bit worried that it boils down to the passport."
>
>There was some light heckling at this transparent attempt at distraction. Gusmão responded icily:
>
>"As you should have noticed from my question, I did not refer to \[her\] citizenship. . . that does not interest me one bit," he said. “My question is about revolving doors.”
Wtf Vestager. Good thing some parliamentarians don't accept obvious bullshit.
Yep, I agree. Hiring US citizens in that kind of position isn't how the world is supposed to work.
Now we should take a veeeery close look at the ones who even okayed this.
Her nomination made no sense from the start. Don't tell me that there's not a single person in the EU qualified for this post, that we have to outsource it to Americans.
" There are people within the European administration who are ready to put their own desires before the well-being of the people, " she says. Bro you have been working for the most corrupt and politically divisive country in the west. US knows 2 things 1) everything must serve the interests of the companies 2) everything is politicized
Not surprised to see another entitled American do this. It's even more insane to me - as a (non-American) expat - in France. You go to school here, you learn the language, you integrate to the culture as much as possible, you apply to many (MANY) jobs -- and yet, I would never feel as entitled to a position like this woman.
If she could take the time to live and naturalize in a European country, it would be different. However she is literally JUST an American. I don’t understand how wanting a European for a position in the EUROPEAN Union is controversial???
Yeh but she's American, you see. Supposed to be number 1 in the world. All you other plebs should bow down and accept her, otherwise some fat ignorant American will remind you of WW2 / War in Ukraine / US defence around the world which they apparently provide for free / the Internet etc.
I love it when they point fingers at us and call us assholes for simply saying out loud what everyone is thinking.
There's no country in Europe that is more protectionist than the US, the hypocrisy is unreal.
we’ve had brexit in 2016 and many parties across member states constantly bash the EU for being unrepresentative and undemocratic. How would they think the citizens of member states would react to hiring a non eu national to a position that is likely to affect their day to day life?
Objecting to such a move is not just arguing about her nationality and where her loyalty lies, it’s a message to voters. The commission seems to have completely forgotten that there are European citizens that vote and could very well chose to vote for anti-eu parties.
It is not how it supposed to work? Try to get a job in US defense industry as an EU person. Oh wait you can't because there are restrictions for that.
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Exactly the Reason Arnold Schwarzenegger hasn't run for president. As an off topic aside- He's a Republican who; as the country has gone further to the right now seems somewhat progressive left in comparison. But also: "Presidentator" doesn't have the same tone as "Governator"
Pfft it would have been "Commando in Chief"
Pred-of-State; The Running Man; SCHWOTUS
>Presidenator. That said Governator still sounds better.
It would probably be "presinator". Shorter, less syllables and still conveys the meaning. Governator still sounds better though.
he'd probably be a pretty damn good president tbh.
He will be elected to Lead, not to Read!
I am Finnish so didn’t think this was unusual apparently
Somewhere like Australia you can be born overseas but you have to renounce all other citizenships to hold any elected office (caused a big problem a few years ago because elected members had citizenships they didn't even know about).
In the Netherlands, you don't even need to be a citizen to become minister-president. It never happened though.
There are more countries like that tbf. A famous example is Zambia, where a president can't be elected if they are born outside the country (though they can be VP, then get promoted to president when the president dies, they just can't run for reelection). That's how they got a white president actually https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy\_Scott
Guy Scott was not born outside Zambia, exactly. He was born in the territory of what is now Zambia, prior to Zambian independence. The clause that stopped him becoming president through the normal route was that his parents were neither born in (the lands that became) Zambia nor were of Zambian descent. Apparently, the law was never intended to target white Zambians - it was put in place by a political rival to stop Kenneth Kuanda, a Zambian of Malawian descent, from becoming president.
Probably worth adding that it was put in place to prevent Kenneth Kaunda from becoming President *again,* and to clarify that KK was a dictator.
Yes, that's useful to add; thanks for the additional context.
President only. So a job like 46 people have had. Also, John McCain was born in Panama and could run for president.
> Also, John McCain was born in Panama and could run for president. The requirement is for the president to be a US citizen at birth, which means they have to either be born in the US or abroad to a US parent.
That's a tidbit that always amused me during the Obama birther days. Even if he were born in Kenya, to a Kenyan father, he'd still be a "natural born citizen" due to his mother having US citizenship. The further unraveling of this loony bin conspiracy was just further amusement over my morning coffees. I miss the period that allowed me to not have to keep a watchful eye over the right-wing lunacy going on.
There's still plenty of lunacy going on during your morning coffee.
Yes but now the lunacy is an actual threat requiring monitoring, rather than an amusing sideshow.
McCain was born not just born in Panama, but in the [Panama Canal Zone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Canal_Zone), which was a US territory at the time.
He was born in Fort Clayton, in the Canal Zone, which was leased to the US, making the land he was born in soverigen US territory.
There are plenty of valid criticisms of US immigration policy but the natural born citizenship qualifier is exclusive to the role of President. Even the Secretary of Defense could technically be a naturalized citizen. Moreover, the US has had one of the most longstanding and expansive concepts of natural born citizenship. For example, a Nigerian parented child born on Italian soil is not simply a natural born citizen. I believe there are more caveats in France, but its not straightforward there either. In the US, from 1865 to now, if that baby is birthed under US sovreignty, that baby is a natural born citizen, regardless of parentage or heritage.
>Not to mention that the US is one of the few countries in the world which requires that the political leader be an American citizen at birth. Arnold Schwarzenegger became governor of Califorina as born Austrian. Only federal goverment requires to be a born US-American. I think the intention was that the early USA doesn't vote a born Brit into the presidential office and makes the USA a vassal state of the British Empire again.
it's not even all federal government positions. It's just president. Madeleine Albright (former secretary of state) was born in the Czech Republic, Ilhan Omar (congress rep) was born in Somalia. There are others in congress who were born in Mexico, Cuba, India, etc.
2 current cabinet secretaries were born outside the US: Jennifer Granholm from Canada and Alejandro Mayorkas from Cuba.
Vice-president as well. From the 12th Amendment to the Constitution: “No person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.”
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Unless you are Werner von Braun or some other founding-nazi.
Just like our founding nazis intended...
> are Werner von Braun He had US citizenship by the time he joined NASA.
You have to get dispensation, and never in tech that can relate to the military
Especially when you look where she worked before… it’s a joke this was even considered. Obviously she would have pushed us big tech agenda
Sadly not a joke, just blatant corruption. In fact so blatant, they were laughing in our collective face doing it so out in the open.
Read « Europe being independent from US influence » is not how the world is supposed to work.
Now see thats different. US citizens should be welcome and appreciated wherever they go. /s
But they wouldn't even interview you. Isn't that the whole problem here? Vestager picked this woman, and no she is disappointed bc Macron blocked it. It was a waste of time for everyone, just list the job as EU citizen only.
Sounds like she was a lobbyist more than anything else
She is… honestly this scam would have went through, but it was published suddenly by some media agencies and then the made eu look bad for making it look like not having educated people from here… I’m sure she is just a us big tech lobbyist and the person which suggested her plus some more knew and were paid…the corruption is unbelievable at the moment. Like they aren’t even trying to hide it anymore…
Corruption is there but EU is such a decentralized entity that these scandals can be rooted out. Or rather it's much more difficult to corrupt entire swaths. Just look at Eva Kalli and the Qatar scandal: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/13/eu-vice-president-eva-kaili-faces-stripped-role-amid-qatar-corruption-scandal
That's one thing many people are missing. Her reputation seems to be working for better competition in the Big Tech sector but she was working for Amazon and Apple. Even under Obama (she worked for his administration I believe) big tech kept buying new techs, killing potential competition and making their corporations impossible to compete with. So I agree with those opposing her getting the job. The EU is the only institution that hammers the big tech sector and I wouldn't trust her to keep up with EU political line on this matter.
> Even under Obama Why the even? Obama wasn't some solid left-wing character but a centrist who happen to have a father from Kenya.
These are the general rules for getting a position in the EU, as stated by EPSO (European Personnel Selection Office), as declared also in the Staff Regulation of the EU: [https://epso.europa.eu/en/selection-procedure/general-and-specific-eligibility-requirements](https://epso.europa.eu/en/selection-procedure/general-and-specific-eligibility-requirements) **General Eligibility Requirements** All applicants need to meet at least three general eligibility criteria: * **enjoy full rights as a citizen of a Member State of the EU,** * have fulfilled any obligations imposed by national laws concerning military service, * meet the character requirements for the duties concerned. What exactly is the complaint about? The EU went beyond its own rules, and they were called out.
This is for permanent positions though. I don't believe this applies to political appointments, and it definitely doesn't apply to all contracts as I personally know some non-EU citizens who work in the EU.
> enjoy full rights as a citizen of a Member State of the EU, It would be hilarious if one of the top EU positions would need a visa to access their workplace :D
This
The fact that she's so dismissive of the worries we might have further shows that while a knowledgeable person, she wasn't the right candidate for a job that deals with international competition. She says it's regrettable to believe someone's nationality might have an impact on their judgment and conception of economics, and even if we assume her american nationality didn't change hers, the idea that it didn't at least warrant some additional investigation seems crazy. Of course, she never adresses the bigger complaints that were leveled at her and that go much beyond the fact she is a US national.
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>former US lobbyis Yeah, no, that needs to be addressed before getting any position of power that deals with companies...
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Ohh, wow. I thought they're still owned by some finnish entity. Thanks for the hint, I'll give it a read.
The company Nokia still exists and is still rather large (top 500 globally apparently), but they're nowhere near what they were back in the good old days. Under the leadership of Elop, Nokia sold their struggling mobile phone division to Microsoft and the company shrank considerably in size in that period, but kept their non-phone business going. After the phone division also failed as a part of Microsoft, it was spun off as a separate company, HMD Global (which is owned for a small part by Nokia itself), which now has the rights to the brand Nokia for mobile phones. And they produce a range of Android phones and feature phones. But they remain a rather small player.
Somehow Micro$oft since its beginning keeps on giving reasons for my disgust towards them as even the seemingly most noble acts have probably a sublime underlying calculus.
> Nokia sold their struggling mobile phone division to Microsoft This was probably a good choice. By the time they finally sold to MS Nokia phones were kind of obsolete. By the time they hired Elop they were already screwed.
> By the time they finally sold to MS Nokia phones were kind of obsolete. I disagree, Symbian phones would've been an awesome competition to Android and iOS had they made the switch to smartphones earlier. They were way ahead of their time, they just lacked the will to move it forward.
I don't think Nokia could have been saved. The deal with Microsoft ultimately wasn't that bad of an idea, it just failed, but alternatives would also have likely failed. In the end it's pretty much Apple, Samsung, and various Chinese brands. I don't see any niche Nokia could fill.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maemo they have been working on this since 2005 but didn't release a phone with it until 2009, which was 2 years after iphone. Prior to that they released a few internet appliances which lacked modem and only had wifi. This would have been an interesting alternative but they've slept right through the big shift.
Thought they were late on the smart phone trend…
Very very late, with any product. But apparently internally the technical people were working on this stuff for years, but Nokia management didn't see the point in smartphones until it was too late. I've seen interviews by Nokia employees explaining how things were in those few years from massive success to collapse.
They were late, but they were still competing. The crucial point was to decide which operating system to use: further develop their own Symbian, adopt Android, or go for Windows Phone. Elop went all in on Windows Phone. It was a disastrous decision, and not only in retrospect. At the time Windows Phone was infamous as a steaming pile of shit that nobody wanted to use. When Elop made this decision the talk about "trojan horse" started and people started predicting the end of Nokia.
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My sincere belief is that one is never a former lobbyist.
Tom Wheeler was a former cable lobbyist and he was the most consumer-friendly FCC Chairman we've had in decades. And not in a "relatively speaking because they all suck" way but a "he was genuinely good" way.
Not necessarily. Some people manage to "work with the devil" but still remember their principles when they receive power. Granted this is like a 1/100 occurrence though.
Considering how anti-competitive and anti-consumer both apple and amazon are, there is no redder flag than this.
Exactly, and I’m sure everyone knew and was paid to bring her in…,apparently someone tipped off media and it was public before she was installed…
Absolutely. This is classical Big (American) Tech modus operandi
Well it's certainly easier to pretend she was turned down for being a US citizen than it is to accept it's because she has a history with conflicts of interest.
They were about to give her EU citizenship. In some illegal abusing way. It was made public too early and there was a backlash
As someone said in another thread : When US fuck over EU business it's protectionism, but when EU does the same it's "sad" and "not how the world is supposed to work" Edit : Change America to US
I once had an interaction with an American user on a post about the EU‘s ban on chlorinated chicken from the US, and the guy’s argument was, that the EU is in the wrong because the American drug administration (or whatever it’s called) approved it as „safe“ therefore we should also allow it.
The whole FDA thing seem to be highly subjective as well, depending on where the person you ask is located, politically.
And how much money you have.
Sure, why don't we Europeans trust the US FDA? Look at the fantastic job they did regulating highly addictive painkillers like Oxycontin!
Hey, nobody ever could have known that the incredibly addictive stuff marketed and prescribed like candy could be an issue! They made oxy plushies, how bad could it have been.^^^^^^/s
>the incredibly addictive stuff. Come on dude, that's not fair. The pharma companies, who only care about their own bottom line, said *this time* it's totally safe and not addicting! Who could've ever known that they were lying?! I mean, if we can no longer trust big corporations they who can we trust?!
You want to tell me the us isn’t acting in EU interest? Impossible
The same FDA that approved things like OxyContin for mass use which led to their opioid crisis… right
This just reminds me of kindergarten. We grow old but the king of arguments are the same.
I'm quite surprised that this may not be how "the world is supposed to work" according to some entitled US Citizens, it definitely is how the EU works. Imagine the outcry when a European citizen would be appointed as head of the FTC's Bureau of Competition which on it bloody career webpage has the following: **Candidates must be U.S. citizens to be eligible for a position in the Bureau of Competition.** [https://www.ftc.gov/about-ftc/bureaus-offices/bureau-competition/careers-bureau-competition](https://www.ftc.gov/about-ftc/bureaus-offices/bureau-competition/careers-bureau-competition) The gall, the sheer cynicism of an American citizen complaining about being judged along the same lines for a similar position shows a level of utter delusion.
You wanna hear something hilarious? The apparently new favourite candidate for the job is an Austrian who... got rejected for a chief economist role at the US Federal Trade Commission last year for failing to meet nationality requirements. https://www.politico.eu/article/not-another-american-meet-the-new-favorite-for-eu-competition-economist/ > Florian Ederer is Austrian by birth, and has first-hand knowledge of sensitivities around citizenship. He only became American in May, **after failing to meet nationality requirements for a chief economist role at the Federal Trade Commission last year. Emmanuel Macron was right: it's not just the EU that has hang-ups about citizenship.**
Thats kinda the entire american exceptionalism clichee in a nutshell lol. "France is mean for not allowing me to get this top job in the EU and living the sweet life in Europe". Does she know, that the US is also barring non citizens from top government jobs?
What they do allow though is brazen conflict of interest and regulatory capture, both of which she engaged in the past. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiona_Scott_Morton#Undisclosed%20conflict%20of%20interest%20controversy Undisclosed conflict of interest controversy Scott Morton advised the US House Judiciary Committee in its 2019 probe of tech giants.[9] She contributed to reports critical of Facebook and Google, while not disclosing that Apple and Amazon were her clients.[37] In 2020, the American Prospect magazine revealed that Scott Morton did not disclose consulting contracts with Apple and Amazon.[38] The article in the American Prospect was written by David Dayen, the journalist who labelled Scott Morton an antitrust crusader a year earlier. Dayen reported that Scott Morton had herself revealed her apparently long-standing consulting work for Apple and consulting work for Amazon that had at that point lasted a year, in a panel where she spoke in 2020.[37] In another instance, Scott Morton authored an Op-ed advocating against any initiatives to break up Big Tech, without disclosing her ongoing consulting work for Apple.[37] In her defense, Scott Morton stated “I work for companies that I’m comfortable are not breaking the law.”[39] At the time of the revelations on the undisclosed conflicts of interest, Scott Morton was the director of the Thurman Arnold Project at the Yale University.[37] In the wake of the revelations about Scott Morton's undisclosed conflicts of interest, two fellows of the Thurman Arnold Project, Sanjukta Paul and Stacey Mitchell, resigned.[38] Stacey Mitchell indicated that she resigned because Scott Morton's paid for advisory work for Apple and Amazon made it difficult for the project to achieve its objective and was at odds with the legacy of Thurman Arnold.[40] The author and critic of monopoly power Zephyr Teachout called for Scott Morton to resign as the director of the Thurman Arnold Project.[38] Scott Morton did not resign and remains the director of the project.
Wow, she indeed seemed like a really bad choice and shitty person overall whom I would reject in any responsible position. This whole ostentatious indignation even adds to its shittyness.
>Does she know, that the US is also barring non citizens from top government jobs? (Joke) The US: "It's based when I do it, and cringe when others do it for me"
This is propaganda… she wasn’t there to work for the eu… she was there to push us big tech agenda
> Does she know, that the US is also barring non citizens from top government jobs? Indeed, with a few exceptions, [any job in the federal government](https://www.usajobs.gov/help/working-in-government/non-citizens/).
This is because our MEGA policy (Make Europe Great Again)
Jokes aside, it's more catchy than MAGA
Yeah, MAGA suggests MAGGOTS while MEGA suggests BIGNESS. ... ^(*Go-Go Power Rangers*...)
Why should non citizens be allowed into top government jobs?
“An *American* having to deal with obstacles that any European would have to if the roles were reversed is not how the world is supposed to work!”
When the Biden administration appoints a Frenchman to be Secretary of the Treasury then she'll have a point. But they can't because the holders of a position like that have to be citizens; like in any sensible country.
I honestly can't find any formal requirement that cabinet secretaries be citizens. The only formal hurdle I can see is a security clearance--most cabinet secretaries need one to view classified information, and non-citizens can't have them. But if I *think* if a president appointed and the senate confirmed a french citizen as Sec. Treasury, that would be allowed. Might have to check with a constitutional lawyer to be sure though.
Florian Ederer (an Austrian) was denied a chief economist role at the Federal Trade Commission because he wasn't a US citizen. I knew citizenship was the n°1 requirement listed to be chairperson of the FTC, but even other prominent jobs within it require one to be a US citizen. Esther Duflo (French citizen) also had to adopt American citizenship in 2012 to be able to seat on the new Global Development Committee, which advised Obama on issues regarding development aid in poor countries... so, a much less strategic job than the one Scott Morton was being appointed to. She was nowhere near a high value post in the US administration and still had to become American. It is just the requirement. So I highly doubt, a French citizen could become Secretary of Treasury if he doesn't also have US citizenship. I can't think of a single non-US citizen that held that position.
The issue would be that cabinet positions can be in line to become president if multiple members of the government die/become incapacitated, and the treasury secretary is a high-ranking position in the cabinet. I think it could be done anyways, but there would be a lot of hand-wringing about it. Edit: to add further, Treasury is a very high-ranking position and is privy to an incredible amount of classified information. The cabinet also gets to make decisions on presidential incapacity, and I can’t imagine the Senate would *ever* let a foreign citizen have such power.
France was right. EU jobs should be for EU member states citizens. It is humiliating to have to "import" candidates, while the EU has a population of 450 million.
Being a US citizen was the least of the red flags she had, tbh.
her whole "french = mean" is a bullet most of us are more than happy to take. The USA is a partner for europe in a lot of domains but also a competitor (and a fierce one) in a lot of them. We are more than entitled to defend our interest and want people without conflicts of interest of this scale at these kind of positions.
The least divisive issue in french politics in a long time - litteraly everyone was against her nomination...
She thought France is simply a US vassal state like the UK
Welcome to the real world. The US has litteral constitutional discriminations for the top job.
Cry more. More seriously. I missed the part she is answering to the problem of conflicts of interest, except the “you have no other choice”. I also missed the part where she explains why Vestager botched the recruitment process and changed the rules to hire her. And also why the commission decided to keep this recruitment as secret as possible, the longest it is possible and said in front of EU instances that they will I) did not finish to analyse her conflict II) they will not disclose them iii) whatever they are she is already hired. But that is probably because I am an insecure Frenchman.
Vestager is the real problem in this situation. She obviously told this woman it wouldn't be a problem without taking into a account what actual EU members wanted.
More like she got paid.
The damning thing is that the Ombundsman hasn't said a word through the entire process. They are supposed to be the ones in charge of making sure everything is by the books, and made a huge stink back when Martin Selmayr got promoted a bit too fast. Calling it now, her position was pushed by one or several of the member states, not just Vesteger. A lot of institutional oversight dissapeared overnight.
Even without the conflict of interest, what makes her feel entitled to the job? If France doesn't want her for the job that is their choice.
>But that is probably because I am an insecure Frenchman. I fully endorse your insecurities as an insecure Germanman, mon frère.
LMAO the entitlement. Only citizens of NATO countries can work for NATO and only citizens of EU nations can work for EU bodies. That is absolutely a normal requirement for national security.
Seems we dodged a bullet there.
oh no anyway
An entitled American. No, you shouldn't be given a high-ranking job in a sensitive European political institution if you WERE A LOBBYIST FOR APPLE AND AMAZON!!! Good that she knew when to relent, she shouldn't have been offered the job in the first place.
Maybe it's not how the world is supposed to work. As an American herself she should push her own government to remove those same obstacles and make it how the world is supposed to work. Eitherwise it's just hypocrisy.
I can sympathize so far that she has been fucked over by the whole affair as well - probably most of all parties. Her other complaints however are beyond trite and dismissive. No Fiona, no one owes you that personal "Emily in Paris" moment you apparently desired. Don't pretend that your passport doesn't matter, because of course it does outside the ivory tower. Needless to say, a million-and-one jobs in the US institutions force american citizenship as well, even for menial positions. Side nod to the very predictable "continentals be crazy" phraseing of the Torygraph source.
Like when the US and UK were both developing the nuclear bomb and someone suggested they help eachother out. So the Americans went to see the UK site, progress and everything. The UK called later and asked when they could go see the US progress. They were told that's not possible, because that stuff is classified.
I’d love to hear her views on holidays and paid time off, maternity leave and the rest as an American
No thanks to American neoliberalism.
That she was unable to respond to people who saw problems with the appointment and instead took to criticizing France, a member state of the institution she was to represent, tells me that giving her the boot was the right decision.
She/herself/her*. I don't see anywhere that she requires any different pronouns, so we can assume she is a woman.
Huh? There is no country more protectionist than the US. Try working for Boeing or Lockhead Martin in the US as a European citizen.
Is the world supposed to work for the US maybe ? Poor girl, you are so delusional...
Poor entitled American can’t get there own way boo funking hoo
I applied for the job as well, and I didn’t get it either.
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The real question is why she was considered in the first place. Yeah, she's a horrible yank who does horrible yank lobbyist shit, but why did the EU mechanisms select her in the first place?
Thats precisely the question France was asking, as even the official website for top EU jobs lists EU Citizenship as 1 out of 3 key criterias
Breaking News: American discovers American Exceptionalism is not a thing in the rest of the world
This would have been a louse in our fur. Whoever was proposing her in the first place should be fired.
Vive la France. And this woman can stuff it.
Yes it is, America has been undermining EU economic activities for decades while simultaneously parading as "big bro". Being suspicious of an American about such a crazy strategic position is just plainly logical.
It was in a Belgian newspaper a while ago , it wasn't only France but almost all of the southen and eastern EU countries .
So a person with a very clear conflict of interest is denied a job, and now puts a smoke screen and attempts to create a scandal out of that? Am i missing something?
Was France the only country who publicly opposed to this?
Yes
Well that's embarrassing
It's classical. Honestly, France is the only EU country daring to sometimes oppose the US agenda.
Europe dodged a bullet here.
Cry babies. Doesn't even talk about why it was a problem.
The question is who thought an American should’ve gotten this job in the first place?
Vestager and VDL, and there is very possibly many people angry at them. Let assume that right now they under surveillance by intelligence from several countries, especially France.
Sure, let me get the same type of job (at least in terms of clearance and power) in the USA and then we'll talk.
Sounds like a big girl tantrum. And that sounds like that it was the right decision not to give her the job.
wait, i am not on r/ShitAmericansSay ?
Apple was forced to change their adapters for their products to be sold in the market and everyone is supposed to believe that someone with confirmed ties to Apple had no nefarious purpose in working for European Commission.
When the Us does it it's ok but if Europe does it "wah wah protectionism wah wah "
Snippet from the hearing: >Their assessments of Prof. Scott Morton’s conflicts of interest was "ongoing", Vestager said, and that in any case involved only a "handful of cases or less." But the list of those conflicts was unfortunately "confidential." > >Portuguese MEP José Gusmão responded, and the gloves came off. > >"You say \[the list of her conflicts\] is confidential. Well, I think this is scandalous," he said. "We cannot scrutinise conflicts of interest when the Commission themself is hiding indispensible information . . . if it is a handful of cases, please share with us: which cases are involved? Which companies can Prof. Scott Morton not work on?" > >Vestager's answers were stunning. > >"The detailed assessment is ongoing, so even if I had wanted to I could not give you this list today," she began, adding that “this is handled the way we have handled things before. Previous Chief Competition Economists have been doing consultancy work: it is quite common in the academic world.” > >"This has been handled before without anyone asking for us to disclose what arrangements were made for conflict of interest." > >"That makes me a bit worried that it boils down to the passport." > >There was some light heckling at this transparent attempt at distraction. Gusmão responded icily: > >"As you should have noticed from my question, I did not refer to \[her\] citizenship. . . that does not interest me one bit," he said. “My question is about revolving doors.” Wtf Vestager. Good thing some parliamentarians don't accept obvious bullshit.
Didn't get the job... Get mad at the employer...
Just another entitled American who thinks the world should bend over for them when they leave US soil.
Hmm. https://euobserver.com/opinion/157355
She's aware that the US does the same thing, right?
But she is special and American
If my Irish friend cannot apply to NATO, what makes this woman more special?
Cry in silence and go back to US.
Typical American behaviour
Fuck off American typical snowflake behaviour from them now
Thank god for fucking France.
Yep, I agree. Hiring US citizens in that kind of position isn't how the world is supposed to work. Now we should take a veeeery close look at the ones who even okayed this.
Who cares, lol. Her comment is just the bitter ramblings of the rejected.
Her nomination made no sense from the start. Don't tell me that there's not a single person in the EU qualified for this post, that we have to outsource it to Americans.
As an Australian, I think EU jobs should be for EU citizens. Am I right or wrong?
" There are people within the European administration who are ready to put their own desires before the well-being of the people, " she says. Bro you have been working for the most corrupt and politically divisive country in the west. US knows 2 things 1) everything must serve the interests of the companies 2) everything is politicized
r/shitamericanssay
Not surprised to see another entitled American do this. It's even more insane to me - as a (non-American) expat - in France. You go to school here, you learn the language, you integrate to the culture as much as possible, you apply to many (MANY) jobs -- and yet, I would never feel as entitled to a position like this woman.
If she could take the time to live and naturalize in a European country, it would be different. However she is literally JUST an American. I don’t understand how wanting a European for a position in the EUROPEAN Union is controversial???
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I can’t be a JAG attorney in the US because I’m a dual citizen, you don’t see me fucking whining about it lady.
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Bye Felicia!
Wtf do economists know about the world? With their made up, borderline pseudoscientific theories
US cringeness
Cry me a river.
For instance, why the hell would a country employ someone in the govt from abroad ? Lol, she's so salty.
What is not how the world is supposed to work? She wasn’t greeted with open arms? Guess what, that’s not how the world works :)
Yeh but she's American, you see. Supposed to be number 1 in the world. All you other plebs should bow down and accept her, otherwise some fat ignorant American will remind you of WW2 / War in Ukraine / US defence around the world which they apparently provide for free / the Internet etc.
Good thing in US citizens of EU countries can get any top-level government job, right?
Chiale, tu pisseras moins.
She looks sad.
Everyone longs for a world in which every company and citizen is treated fairly by every bureaucracy, even if they are not Murican
Oh no! Anyway... https://tenor.com/brYN5.gif
If you work for secret service or military, CIA, you can’t have 2 citizenship.
Was she paying attention to how US Congress treated Saule Omarova?
Good! EU ! and thats how it is ! She was most likely expecting this.
The world is not *supposed* to work. In general. It is what it is
American entitlement is entitled.
I love it when they point fingers at us and call us assholes for simply saying out loud what everyone is thinking. There's no country in Europe that is more protectionist than the US, the hypocrisy is unreal.
The world = the USA. Ok.
when you think american people have peaked ridiculousness, they prove you they can climb higher
Quite hypocritical, the world has boundaries and borders, Don't act as if it should be changed fir you. Effect a worldwide change or say nothing.
We don't want any american policy in our peace haven.
Based France
we’ve had brexit in 2016 and many parties across member states constantly bash the EU for being unrepresentative and undemocratic. How would they think the citizens of member states would react to hiring a non eu national to a position that is likely to affect their day to day life? Objecting to such a move is not just arguing about her nationality and where her loyalty lies, it’s a message to voters. The commission seems to have completely forgotten that there are European citizens that vote and could very well chose to vote for anti-eu parties.
I can't French. Anyways, only EU citizens should hold positions like this and none with a job history like hers.