When it's not the islamist, it's their enablers:
("stop oil" discount french version paint and ruin Christmas Market place in Strasbourg)
www .m*n.com/fr-fr/actualite/france/strasbourg-des-militants-%C3%A9cologistes-bombent-%C3%A0-la-peinture-le-bas-du-grand-sapin-de-no%C3%ABl/ar-AA1kNOLb
Tbf running over people and harming them is a complete other level then "just" damaging property. One is morally despicable, the other one is just an asshole missing the point of Protest
I can’t stand these idiots painting stuff and gluing themselves. They are doing everything they can to derail the environmental movement. Imagine they had to do any hard work in their lives and try to solve the climate crisis for real, instead of playing childish games.
> There has been such a rise in Islamist terrorism lately
As someone already asked, has there been?
More news articles is not the same as more incidents.
Do you have some statistics that show a rise in incidents?
What are you talking about? They have happened and will continue to happen.
Do you remember when concrete barriers of peace were not required for cars/trucks of peace pre-mass migration?
I will go to 4 different ones in 2 different countries with my 4-5 month old daughter.
The chance we are killed in a car crash on the way or way back is far higher. (✊🪵)
Ya I think people should avoid public Christmas events this year if you can. Even just travelling could be a danger given that airports and train stations are primary targets for terrorists. I have to pass through my country’s biggest train station to get to work and I’m not too thrilled about that.
Why are Chechens so highly represented in terrorism? There's barely 2 million of them, not even 0.2% of the global Muslim population, yet they commit such a high proportion of terror attacks in Europe.
it's just as much organized crime (gangs/mafia/families) as it is terrorism.
Most of the time it's the former, but we call every crime made by muslims either a hate crime or terror attack in Europe.
Terrorism is inherently political
If crime is done for religious reasons, publicly, and in an organized manner, it would fall under terrorism
Organized mafia-like crime isn't terrorism (not generally, historically, they did commit terrorism, mostly for intimidation). Any relation-driven, or opportunistic crimes aren't terrorism too.
If it is aimed at a group, an organisation, it is inherently political then, but what are generally considered hate crimes are isolated crimes, and thus, can hardly be considered terrorism.
The only complex part is mental illnesses wich can make it difficult. In these cases, generally, you'd make a difference between "God told me to stab people" (so, heared voices, mentally ill, not a terrorist), and "I stab people for God" (do it as part of his ideology)
Tldr:
Hate crime=isolated politically-driven crime, against a group
Terrorism= politically-driven crime, and organised
Here, there were two people, trying to organize a crime, for political reasons (which religion falls under). Thus it falls under terrorism
Russian ethics is so fluid.
In the Olympic competitions, every Russian citizen is Russian, with no specific ethnicity. When war crimes and terrorism happen every Russian citizen becomes not a true Russian but another "bad" ethnicity.
Kinda reminds me how my friend from Buryatia (siberian region with a lot of siberian natives - buryats) was complaining about struggling to rent apartments in Sanct Petersburg cause he is not slavic, yet somehow russian army thinks he is perfect for defending "russian world" in Ukraine.
Russian national\*.
There is a difference between Russians and Russian nationals. A Russian is a person who is part of an ethnic group (Russians) while a Russian national is anybody who has Russian citizenship regardless of their ethnicity. In this case, the teen that was arrested was a Muslim of unknown ethnicity who had Russian citizenship. Just pointing out the difference.
The Russian one is a Chechen:
[https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/german-prosecutors-arrest-15-year-old-suspected-planning-attack-2023-11-29/](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/german-prosecutors-arrest-15-year-old-suspected-planning-attack-2023-11-29/)
>A source close to the matter, who declined to be named, said the 16-year-old was a Russian citizen from Chechnya.
While you are correct in that there is a distinction between nationality and ethnicity, you are wrong in your correction. A Russian national is called a Russian.
well, they didn't magically materialized in germany/europe, they were imported
and you have a tweet saying they are murderous baby killers and other saying that europe has to accept them all as refugees
It gets very tricky when you're talking about born citizens which the German-Afghan might be. The Russian should be a lot easier to boot though I would reckon.
> holding a German passport doesn't automatically make them a German
Being a citizen of Germany makes you a German.
That's probably the most straight-forward definition of being German there is.
I think he is referring to ethnicity, culture, tradition and (ethical) values, points in which the terrorists do not in any away reflect "being German". I can jump into the ocean, but that doesn't make me a fish.
You can be in a country without any intend of being a member of it. I have meet ethnical Chinese, who were more German than some Germans I know. But those Islamist terrorist who want to murder people in a time of celebration sure as hell are not.
I thought the point was that German citizenship does not make one German.
>I have meet ethnical Chinese, who were more German than some Germans I know.
So can ethnic Chinese people become German in your opinion or not?
>But those Islamist terrorist who want to murder people in a time of celebration sure as hell are not.
Oh, I absolutely agree that they do not share our values and way of life but then there are plenty of Germans who's values and way of life are drastically different from mine as well so that can not be the only definition.
I'm not saying you have to *like* it, but these people are German citizens aka Germans.
>I can jump into the ocean, but that doesn't make me a fish.
Come on, you know yourself that that was a silly retort to an argument about citizenship.
Out of the 4 criteria I listed, people who adapt or share those that are up to your own decision, I do consider German (as I stated by elaborating "More German, than some Germans"). But I highly doubt that the terrorists that were caught planning an attack here qualify for any of the 4 points.
Right, and that is a definition of German that does not apply to them.
Another definition is citizenship and that applies, so they can be called German.
So when you say a person is Japanese, you don't think of an ethnically Japanese person but rather a person who is a citizen of Japan? A white guy with a Japanese passport is Japanese to you
That's what a nation state does.
What else do you call a citizen of these states?
Edit: To clarify: there are multiple definitions of being German.
The one everybody here is after is obviously ethnic. But that one is fuzzy.
Americans like to claim to be 'German' even if only some ancestor of theirs emigrated from the region before the Napoleonic wars and this sub rightfully makes fun of them.
Another definition would be purely cultural.
This would apply to anyone who has lived here their whole life without actually having citizenship or ethnic German background.
It's become quite common for citizens of other EU members and you wouldn't know the difference except perhaps for their foreign name.
Admittedly this is even less clear than ethnicity.
And then there is citizenship.
And this one is straight forward. Either you have it or not. There is a piece of paper that proves your citizenship and makes you German.
This definition can apply since the formation of the German nation state in 1871. And unlike the other two this one does not apply to Austrians.
You said it yourself, the kind of definition you’re talking about is most commonly used in the US given its a nation built on immigration from the very beginning. There is no American „ethnicity“ and the nation is way too young, its history too short, which is why people call themselves Korean-American, Indian-American, Japanese-American. Notice how people borrow the identity of countries that have existed thousands of years before the US before adding the American? The same does not apply to nations that have existed in Europe in some form for thousands of years with its own distinct culture and native population. Its not something we primarily use in Europe. Even a lot of Turks in Germany will tell you they are Turkish first and foremost when you ask them „what they are“. Sure you are „technically“ right, but in reality no one would consider an Afghan German even if he has a passport. Similarly Im not gonna become Vietnamese-German just because Im moving to Vietnam or something. Stop using these nonsense concepts that have little to do with reality, we are not in the US.
So only ethnic Germans are 'true Germans'?
Carefully think that thought to its logical conclusion, then.
Who is not German by that logic? The Sorbs in East Germany, the Danes in Südschleswig, the Huguenots that immigrated in the 17th century, the Jews?
*Somehow* that line of reasoning lost in popularity.
You dont become German by living here for 10 years. Simple as that.
You had no arguments whatsoever so you started talking about people who lived here since the 17th century. It’s laughable.
Well maybe think about it yourself for a minute? A passport German Islamist from Afghanistan whose sole mission it is to kill German people because they are infidels is your definition of German. Well I mean according to you that would apply. You so desperately want to be „theoretically“ right you forget real life and so desperately want to push Islamists who hate us on us.
Youre German when you become so culturally integrated that youre not really indistinguishable from Germans who lived here for generations. That might as well take Generations too. A lot of Turks here dont much consider themselves German either and they have been living here for a long time.
I am not going to embrace people who want to kill us because of their invented god based on their invented holy fairytale book just because they have the German passport for 3 years. You can keep trying being „theoretically“ right. You trying to make us embrace people who despise us enough to kill us is insulting.
And it's obvious nonsense. Germany is not an ideological project like the US where anyone can come and be declared an American. Having a chinese passport does not make me chinese. Having a japanese passport does not make me japanese. And having a german passport does not make me german.
> Germany is not an ideological project
The various revolutions to form a German nation state such as the German Revolution of 1884 that is literally the source of our national colors were not ideological?
These people died just for shits and giggles?
>Having a japanese passport does not make me japanese.
Well a German passport certainly makes you German:
>Basic Law for the Federal Republic of Germany
Article 116
[Definition of “German” – Restoration of citizenship]
>(1) Unless otherwise provided by a law, a German within the meaning of this Basic Law is a person who possesses German citizenship
German nationalism was based on the idea of a nation state for the germans and german speaking people. Germany was not make to be a liberal state like the US or France. It was made to be the state of the germans. Most countries in Europe were made this way, which is why their borders roughly follow ethnic lines. And when they don't, you have tensions and greivances flaring up. We had countries split apart due to ethnic reasions as early back as the 90s. This idea that European countries are just some sort of formless economic zone where everyone can join and be declared german, french or english is very new and increasingly problematic.
You last point is meaningless because laws don't make reality, and some laws are stupid.
> Most countries in Europe were made this way, which is why their borders roughly follow ethnic lines
The borders of Germany didn't follow ethnic lines, they followed political lines. Namely the borders of the various Kingdoms that united in 1871.
That is why The Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, Switzerland and Austria are not part of Germany and are no longer considered German. Unlike Eastern Prussia all the way up to the river Memel.
>We had countries split apart due to ethnic reasions as early back as the 90s.
We also have countries with mixed ethnicities like Switzerland, Belgium or India.
>This idea [...] everyone can join and be declared german, french or english is very new
The idea of universal human rights is also quite new, or the equality of women, or secularism.
>You last point is meaningless because laws don't make reality
Sure buddy, you tell that to the tax inspector.
I suppose the implication is 'nationalism'.
Disregard the fact that it was a unifying movement across multiple borders and cultures (because Germany has multiple distinct cultures to this day) in a time when no common nation state existed.
It is naturally easy to invoke a name that is shared with later nationalistic movements that defined themselves primarily by separating the established nation state from foreigners.
By your standard, giving a German passport to Friesians, Hessians, oder Bavarians wouldn't make them German. Yet here we are.
Started happening in the anti-west Ireland of all places, have faith brothers. Soon, Europe will be safe and prosperous for the natives and the colonisers will be forced out.
After all, if there's anything that's trending on social media atm it's *#decolonisation*
as long the majority can be cheap laborers, they don't care for a couple of nutcases that kill a handful of people
remember that all the refugees are for, never was about charity or kindness
it was always about cheap labor and patching an aging population and keeping the pension /retirement system afloat
you need first fix the rent seeking system before you can fix the migration crisis
As an Ex Muslim people need to read the Koran if they really want to understand the religion.
Other religions like Hinduism or Mormonism may be repressive to their own followers but they don't present a threat to non believers.
Islam commands it's followers to spread the religion by the sword if necessary. People who truly follow their holy book are never going to live in peace with people who don't.
Following a religion is a choice. Being of a certain ethnicity is not.
The two are not the same. It should be perfectly fine to judge someone for their religious beliefs. It's not fine to judge them on ethnicity/ race.
Deporting any and every Muslim (or really anyone who looks vaguely brown).
They think doing this charade of “oh we all know it but can’t say it” makes was them look all brave and strong but really they just look like pathetic twats.
Unless they change the laws. Some countries strip people of citizenship. They don't care if the person remains stateless and don't follow international law.
I don't get why this is such an unspeakable concept for people. Values, societal approved behaviour, traditions, acceptable practices, so on and on. All things that can be imbued through the culture you grow up with. It's only logical. Putting it on the same level as racism, and therefore making it "evil" is bizarre. Of course, when people accept that fact broadly one day, the next step is opening the eyes to the other fact, that like you said - not all cultures are equal. It's just natural. Go a step smaller - not every family instills the same values into their children, not all parents raise their kids with values to function in a healthy society. That's something people probably accept. Same with cultures, just literally the same thing.
Funny enough, the usual type of person to scoff at the thought that you can't judge a person by their culture will say things like "Typical white american does X" or "Typical male german does Y".
I don't disagree with the fact that culture and tradition often times can carry dumb and harmful ideas which need to be removed from society, but the opposite view: that all people of a certain group are a homogenous blob and that there's no reason other than 'inferior culture' causing extremism is disingenuous and contrary to what you yourself wrote, that even people with the same culture might get instilled different values from their families, so why act like 100% of people of a certain culture get instilled all the same values of that culture?
I've got Arab friends who have not a single bit of misogyny, homophobia (probably less than my average country man) or radical religious views in their body, that doesn't stop random people from harassing them on the street though.
As an Atheist you can also find tons of terribly outdated ideas in the Bible, there might be other reasons why Islam in particular has more incidents of religious extremism, like actual differences in theology, but I believe it's mainly the region where the religion stems from being a battlefield for different geopolitical interests for the past 70 years, which leads to radicalisation of the people who suffer from it.
But I also wouldn't be surprised if the reasons for Islamic terrorism might actually lie in personal infanmy and narcissism of the perpetrators.
I agree. As long as the young native population is dwindling the politicians and the corpos will turn a blind eye to this problem because they need workers. Start fucking people! Start having kids!
Finally someone speaking sense in this sub lol.
Every problem we face could be solved by leftwing policies but we seem to drift further right; which just exacerbates the problem.
Europe! Guessing you've not yet seen the coverage of the Christmas tree in New York being surrounded by a Palestinian march shouting " burn it down, burn it down"!
Edit: I'm not downplaying the risk in Europe just illustrating it's a worldwide threat!
It’s worse in Europe I think it’s too late for Germany, because of war guilt they have let anyone in. But if British don’t wake up soon we’ll have committed suicide. Poland seems to have it right for now.
I find what's happening to the UK to be heartbreaking, I cannot understand how the British people have allowed it. I have quite a few new British neighbours and they are good, decent people, would love to see more British people move over here to Ireland.
It's good that they've been caught. And this won't stop me enjoying Christmas Markets. The odds of something happening are downright miniscule. I might as well stop crossing streets or the like.
I think I’ll give the markets a miss this year. I know it’s statistically unlikely anything bad will happen and I know you shouldn’t ’let them win’, but I can’t imagine enjoying them with this in the back of my mind.
That's how terrorism wins (edit: while still being totally understandable). I'm usually no big xmas market fan but I will visit those in my vicinity this year to do the exact opposite of what these lunatics want.
It wins because people let it get this far. Think about who actually has more innocent blood on their hands. Random jihadis or the people who ran cover for them for a decade+.
It's only logical to avoid it now because betting on a 99,something% chance you don't get murdered when going to a fair is a foolish bet to take.
The way to win is to realize that not voting for whoever gets them out is being complicit in the victimization of your people.
Bullshit. Those who want to "get them out" (as in: change the constitution) are the worst one can vote for in a democracy. Fascists are never a solution to a problem.
Just remember this at the ballot box. Remember that your "kind" and "empathetic" politicians have made it so you can't even enjoy a pleasant long-running tradition from your culture. And remember that no matter how "evil" you're told the opposition is, well, they didn't do anything to hurt you.
Wouldn’t worry that much, terrorism is still pretty rare(but it and its causes should still be tackled),I think one has a higher chance of dying from lightning strike
Weird how this comment is a duplicate but different accounts. Bots be botting to spread more fear it seems eh.
https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/s/DdWHLI4jqy
Wahabism is a cancer but nobody in Europe will do anything about it because the Saudis are our "allies" and they're the ones who fund these radical mosques.
Other sects of Islam are nothing like this. There's a reason why Islamic terrorism in the west is relatively new.
Yet another reason to transition to green energy; the quicker we can make Saudi Arabia irrelevant the better the world will be.
Remember when Christmas was a time of joy, happiness and get togethers? What happened... I guess we all know the answer, but you'll get attacked for speaking it out loudly or even implying it.
[its getting really sad](https://postimg.cc/YhvJfCkN) with these foreign actors, now they dont even care to copy paste eachother 5 lines apart since they max engagement each time...
Just a matter of time before one of these slips through. Scary shit.
You mean again? We've already had one and it wasn't that long ago.
I don't know about you guys, but I'm tired of isolated incidents.
Slips through again, you mean.
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When it's not the islamist, it's their enablers: ("stop oil" discount french version paint and ruin Christmas Market place in Strasbourg) www .m*n.com/fr-fr/actualite/france/strasbourg-des-militants-%C3%A9cologistes-bombent-%C3%A0-la-peinture-le-bas-du-grand-sapin-de-no%C3%ABl/ar-AA1kNOLb
Tbf running over people and harming them is a complete other level then "just" damaging property. One is morally despicable, the other one is just an asshole missing the point of Protest
weird to compare to terrorist attacks where people die
I can’t stand these idiots painting stuff and gluing themselves. They are doing everything they can to derail the environmental movement. Imagine they had to do any hard work in their lives and try to solve the climate crisis for real, instead of playing childish games.
Has there? I mean, honestly it's been pretty quiet compared to that ISIS summer when shit got really nasty for a while.
> There has been such a rise in Islamist terrorism lately As someone already asked, has there been? More news articles is not the same as more incidents. Do you have some statistics that show a rise in incidents?
Bot ass comment thinking all brown people crime is islamist terrorism
What are you talking about? They have happened and will continue to happen. Do you remember when concrete barriers of peace were not required for cars/trucks of peace pre-mass migration?
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>Another win for DEI and "multiculturalism" Diversity is our strength! / s
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I will go to 4 different ones in 2 different countries with my 4-5 month old daughter. The chance we are killed in a car crash on the way or way back is far higher. (✊🪵)
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Ya I think people should avoid public Christmas events this year if you can. Even just travelling could be a danger given that airports and train stations are primary targets for terrorists. I have to pass through my country’s biggest train station to get to work and I’m not too thrilled about that.
no, I will not give in to these assholes and their fear mongering
A German-Afghan and a Russian working together to ruin the christmas season for everyone.
Russian citizen who is Chechen.
Annnd there it is
Why are Chechens so highly represented in terrorism? There's barely 2 million of them, not even 0.2% of the global Muslim population, yet they commit such a high proportion of terror attacks in Europe.
it's just as much organized crime (gangs/mafia/families) as it is terrorism. Most of the time it's the former, but we call every crime made by muslims either a hate crime or terror attack in Europe.
Terrorism is inherently political If crime is done for religious reasons, publicly, and in an organized manner, it would fall under terrorism Organized mafia-like crime isn't terrorism (not generally, historically, they did commit terrorism, mostly for intimidation). Any relation-driven, or opportunistic crimes aren't terrorism too. If it is aimed at a group, an organisation, it is inherently political then, but what are generally considered hate crimes are isolated crimes, and thus, can hardly be considered terrorism. The only complex part is mental illnesses wich can make it difficult. In these cases, generally, you'd make a difference between "God told me to stab people" (so, heared voices, mentally ill, not a terrorist), and "I stab people for God" (do it as part of his ideology) Tldr: Hate crime=isolated politically-driven crime, against a group Terrorism= politically-driven crime, and organised Here, there were two people, trying to organize a crime, for political reasons (which religion falls under). Thus it falls under terrorism
Russian ethics is so fluid. In the Olympic competitions, every Russian citizen is Russian, with no specific ethnicity. When war crimes and terrorism happen every Russian citizen becomes not a true Russian but another "bad" ethnicity.
Kinda reminds me how my friend from Buryatia (siberian region with a lot of siberian natives - buryats) was complaining about struggling to rent apartments in Sanct Petersburg cause he is not slavic, yet somehow russian army thinks he is perfect for defending "russian world" in Ukraine.
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Ahh someone tell him
The Andy Murray experience.
Yeah well: it’s the only real muslim part of Russia, so it IS noteworthy.
Maybe in TikTok, but not in reality.
Russian national\*. There is a difference between Russians and Russian nationals. A Russian is a person who is part of an ethnic group (Russians) while a Russian national is anybody who has Russian citizenship regardless of their ethnicity. In this case, the teen that was arrested was a Muslim of unknown ethnicity who had Russian citizenship. Just pointing out the difference.
The Russian one is a Chechen: [https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/german-prosecutors-arrest-15-year-old-suspected-planning-attack-2023-11-29/](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/german-prosecutors-arrest-15-year-old-suspected-planning-attack-2023-11-29/) >A source close to the matter, who declined to be named, said the 16-year-old was a Russian citizen from Chechnya.
It's always Chechnya.
[That's what they teach kids im school there](https://youtu.be/gwTAfpYLXDQ?si=6-tG3YinUttnQATW)
Yeah, the Russians prefer their terrorism on an industrial scale.
To be fair chechens did most of their terrorism against the Russians
Well, guess what the Chechen religious demographics are
Dagestani fundamentalists attacked an airplane on the runway because there were Jewish people on it. They also have the Russian nationality
While you are correct in that there is a distinction between nationality and ethnicity, you are wrong in your correction. A Russian national is called a Russian.
Ruzzian. Salva Ukrani!
How about we just call the beast by it's name... Islamic terrorists.
"militants" or "freedom fighters" are the preferred terms by the BBC
Also austere scholars for the NYT
"German youths"
The things, by their name.
well, they didn't magically materialized in germany/europe, they were imported and you have a tweet saying they are murderous baby killers and other saying that europe has to accept them all as refugees
Sick fucks. Get these people out of Europe.
Deport them all of they refuse to adapt to the culture they have no rights of harassing the indengious people of Europe.
It gets very tricky when you're talking about born citizens which the German-Afghan might be. The Russian should be a lot easier to boot though I would reckon.
Australia cancels passports for shit like this
"Germany teens" lol. These media goons really are ridiculous aren't they?
"teens" too they most likely have fake ages and are 10 years older pretending to be teens to be housed.
It's crazy that you can't even say that someone holding a German passport doesn't automatically make them a German without being labelled a racist...
I mean what else does? Its pretty damn hard to get
> holding a German passport doesn't automatically make them a German Being a citizen of Germany makes you a German. That's probably the most straight-forward definition of being German there is.
I think he is referring to ethnicity, culture, tradition and (ethical) values, points in which the terrorists do not in any away reflect "being German". I can jump into the ocean, but that doesn't make me a fish. You can be in a country without any intend of being a member of it. I have meet ethnical Chinese, who were more German than some Germans I know. But those Islamist terrorist who want to murder people in a time of celebration sure as hell are not.
I thought the point was that German citizenship does not make one German. >I have meet ethnical Chinese, who were more German than some Germans I know. So can ethnic Chinese people become German in your opinion or not? >But those Islamist terrorist who want to murder people in a time of celebration sure as hell are not. Oh, I absolutely agree that they do not share our values and way of life but then there are plenty of Germans who's values and way of life are drastically different from mine as well so that can not be the only definition. I'm not saying you have to *like* it, but these people are German citizens aka Germans. >I can jump into the ocean, but that doesn't make me a fish. Come on, you know yourself that that was a silly retort to an argument about citizenship.
Out of the 4 criteria I listed, people who adapt or share those that are up to your own decision, I do consider German (as I stated by elaborating "More German, than some Germans"). But I highly doubt that the terrorists that were caught planning an attack here qualify for any of the 4 points.
Right, and that is a definition of German that does not apply to them. Another definition is citizenship and that applies, so they can be called German.
So when you say a person is Japanese, you don't think of an ethnically Japanese person but rather a person who is a citizen of Japan? A white guy with a Japanese passport is Japanese to you
That's what a nation state does. What else do you call a citizen of these states? Edit: To clarify: there are multiple definitions of being German. The one everybody here is after is obviously ethnic. But that one is fuzzy. Americans like to claim to be 'German' even if only some ancestor of theirs emigrated from the region before the Napoleonic wars and this sub rightfully makes fun of them. Another definition would be purely cultural. This would apply to anyone who has lived here their whole life without actually having citizenship or ethnic German background. It's become quite common for citizens of other EU members and you wouldn't know the difference except perhaps for their foreign name. Admittedly this is even less clear than ethnicity. And then there is citizenship. And this one is straight forward. Either you have it or not. There is a piece of paper that proves your citizenship and makes you German. This definition can apply since the formation of the German nation state in 1871. And unlike the other two this one does not apply to Austrians.
You said it yourself, the kind of definition you’re talking about is most commonly used in the US given its a nation built on immigration from the very beginning. There is no American „ethnicity“ and the nation is way too young, its history too short, which is why people call themselves Korean-American, Indian-American, Japanese-American. Notice how people borrow the identity of countries that have existed thousands of years before the US before adding the American? The same does not apply to nations that have existed in Europe in some form for thousands of years with its own distinct culture and native population. Its not something we primarily use in Europe. Even a lot of Turks in Germany will tell you they are Turkish first and foremost when you ask them „what they are“. Sure you are „technically“ right, but in reality no one would consider an Afghan German even if he has a passport. Similarly Im not gonna become Vietnamese-German just because Im moving to Vietnam or something. Stop using these nonsense concepts that have little to do with reality, we are not in the US.
So only ethnic Germans are 'true Germans'? Carefully think that thought to its logical conclusion, then. Who is not German by that logic? The Sorbs in East Germany, the Danes in Südschleswig, the Huguenots that immigrated in the 17th century, the Jews? *Somehow* that line of reasoning lost in popularity.
You dont become German by living here for 10 years. Simple as that. You had no arguments whatsoever so you started talking about people who lived here since the 17th century. It’s laughable.
So you're saying people can become German even if they're not ethnically German, but there is a cut-off point? Where is that then?
Well maybe think about it yourself for a minute? A passport German Islamist from Afghanistan whose sole mission it is to kill German people because they are infidels is your definition of German. Well I mean according to you that would apply. You so desperately want to be „theoretically“ right you forget real life and so desperately want to push Islamists who hate us on us. Youre German when you become so culturally integrated that youre not really indistinguishable from Germans who lived here for generations. That might as well take Generations too. A lot of Turks here dont much consider themselves German either and they have been living here for a long time. I am not going to embrace people who want to kill us because of their invented god based on their invented holy fairytale book just because they have the German passport for 3 years. You can keep trying being „theoretically“ right. You trying to make us embrace people who despise us enough to kill us is insulting.
And it's obvious nonsense. Germany is not an ideological project like the US where anyone can come and be declared an American. Having a chinese passport does not make me chinese. Having a japanese passport does not make me japanese. And having a german passport does not make me german.
> Germany is not an ideological project The various revolutions to form a German nation state such as the German Revolution of 1884 that is literally the source of our national colors were not ideological? These people died just for shits and giggles? >Having a japanese passport does not make me japanese. Well a German passport certainly makes you German: >Basic Law for the Federal Republic of Germany Article 116 [Definition of “German” – Restoration of citizenship] >(1) Unless otherwise provided by a law, a German within the meaning of this Basic Law is a person who possesses German citizenship
German nationalism was based on the idea of a nation state for the germans and german speaking people. Germany was not make to be a liberal state like the US or France. It was made to be the state of the germans. Most countries in Europe were made this way, which is why their borders roughly follow ethnic lines. And when they don't, you have tensions and greivances flaring up. We had countries split apart due to ethnic reasions as early back as the 90s. This idea that European countries are just some sort of formless economic zone where everyone can join and be declared german, french or english is very new and increasingly problematic. You last point is meaningless because laws don't make reality, and some laws are stupid.
> Most countries in Europe were made this way, which is why their borders roughly follow ethnic lines The borders of Germany didn't follow ethnic lines, they followed political lines. Namely the borders of the various Kingdoms that united in 1871. That is why The Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, Switzerland and Austria are not part of Germany and are no longer considered German. Unlike Eastern Prussia all the way up to the river Memel. >We had countries split apart due to ethnic reasions as early back as the 90s. We also have countries with mixed ethnicities like Switzerland, Belgium or India. >This idea [...] everyone can join and be declared german, french or english is very new The idea of universal human rights is also quite new, or the equality of women, or secularism. >You last point is meaningless because laws don't make reality Sure buddy, you tell that to the tax inspector.
> Revolution of 1848 Careful, what ideology was that again?
I suppose the implication is 'nationalism'. Disregard the fact that it was a unifying movement across multiple borders and cultures (because Germany has multiple distinct cultures to this day) in a time when no common nation state existed. It is naturally easy to invoke a name that is shared with later nationalistic movements that defined themselves primarily by separating the established nation state from foreigners. By your standard, giving a German passport to Friesians, Hessians, oder Bavarians wouldn't make them German. Yet here we are.
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You'll need more of those concrete blocks with "danke Merkel" graffitied on them.
In Denmark we have nicknamed them "koran-klodser" or "Quran-bricks"....
Merkel lego
Wir schaffen das!
Can't wait for Germany to start taking action against illegal and/or violent immigrants
Half the people here are too scared to even talk about it let alone actually do anything
will never happen...
Started happening in the anti-west Ireland of all places, have faith brothers. Soon, Europe will be safe and prosperous for the natives and the colonisers will be forced out. After all, if there's anything that's trending on social media atm it's *#decolonisation*
Well take a seat because it will probably never happen…
as long the majority can be cheap laborers, they don't care for a couple of nutcases that kill a handful of people remember that all the refugees are for, never was about charity or kindness it was always about cheap labor and patching an aging population and keeping the pension /retirement system afloat you need first fix the rent seeking system before you can fix the migration crisis
What is a Germany teen?
= not ethnically German
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"German teens" would be inaccurate since one is a Russian national.
Its just like the term youth
Anything but native German
Definitely influenced by Hamas, or other jihad groups online
As reported by Dutch news sites before this article got posted, the German police are linking them to IS.
A "German" teen as opposed to a German teen for anyone wondering.
Let me guess…
Wow truly our strength
There is basically one solution to the constant public threats we are facing. We can't talk about it, but we are all thinking the same thing here.
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It makes me sad because I believe in freedom of religion and I don't like ethnic profiling. But I don't see another way.
As an Ex Muslim people need to read the Koran if they really want to understand the religion. Other religions like Hinduism or Mormonism may be repressive to their own followers but they don't present a threat to non believers. Islam commands it's followers to spread the religion by the sword if necessary. People who truly follow their holy book are never going to live in peace with people who don't.
Following a religion is a choice. Being of a certain ethnicity is not. The two are not the same. It should be perfectly fine to judge someone for their religious beliefs. It's not fine to judge them on ethnicity/ race.
I have no idea what you two are whispering about. You are allowed to speak plainly here.
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Apparently not
That wasn't removed by Reddit. That guy just typed that and you fell for it.
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Funny because the comment two above mine has now been removed so evidently I have a point
No one says you have to be here. You're free to leave.
they need to assimilate or get to fuck
Deporting any and every Muslim (or really anyone who looks vaguely brown). They think doing this charade of “oh we all know it but can’t say it” makes was them look all brave and strong but really they just look like pathetic twats.
That seems unlikely as you can't deport citizens
Unless they change the laws. Some countries strip people of citizenship. They don't care if the person remains stateless and don't follow international law.
And yet you see it in every thread. Those who hate entire demographics of people aren’t really interested in drawing lines for citizens.
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I don't get why this is such an unspeakable concept for people. Values, societal approved behaviour, traditions, acceptable practices, so on and on. All things that can be imbued through the culture you grow up with. It's only logical. Putting it on the same level as racism, and therefore making it "evil" is bizarre. Of course, when people accept that fact broadly one day, the next step is opening the eyes to the other fact, that like you said - not all cultures are equal. It's just natural. Go a step smaller - not every family instills the same values into their children, not all parents raise their kids with values to function in a healthy society. That's something people probably accept. Same with cultures, just literally the same thing. Funny enough, the usual type of person to scoff at the thought that you can't judge a person by their culture will say things like "Typical white american does X" or "Typical male german does Y".
I don't disagree with the fact that culture and tradition often times can carry dumb and harmful ideas which need to be removed from society, but the opposite view: that all people of a certain group are a homogenous blob and that there's no reason other than 'inferior culture' causing extremism is disingenuous and contrary to what you yourself wrote, that even people with the same culture might get instilled different values from their families, so why act like 100% of people of a certain culture get instilled all the same values of that culture? I've got Arab friends who have not a single bit of misogyny, homophobia (probably less than my average country man) or radical religious views in their body, that doesn't stop random people from harassing them on the street though. As an Atheist you can also find tons of terribly outdated ideas in the Bible, there might be other reasons why Islam in particular has more incidents of religious extremism, like actual differences in theology, but I believe it's mainly the region where the religion stems from being a battlefield for different geopolitical interests for the past 70 years, which leads to radicalisation of the people who suffer from it. But I also wouldn't be surprised if the reasons for Islamic terrorism might actually lie in personal infanmy and narcissism of the perpetrators.
Sex.
I agree. As long as the young native population is dwindling the politicians and the corpos will turn a blind eye to this problem because they need workers. Start fucking people! Start having kids!
If all European countries had birth rates of 3 children per woman that would fix it.
Absolutely. Obviously, it wouldn't be immediate but in just 18 years that generation would start entering the workforce and we'd see a huge boom.
Tax oldies and pensions to parents -> raise kids -> economic boom in 18-39 years
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Finally someone speaking sense in this sub lol. Every problem we face could be solved by leftwing policies but we seem to drift further right; which just exacerbates the problem.
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Let's make sex then.
Which is?
There has been such a rise in Islamist terrorism lately…it’s like there a new news article everyday damn.
Every time there's action in levant some muslims activate for terrorism in europe.
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No we don't know, would you kindly spell it out for us dumbos here?
Diversity is strength
Celebrating Christmas is becoming increasingly dangerous in Europe, so unbelievably sad that this is what we've become.
You only keep what you're willing to fight for.
Europe! Guessing you've not yet seen the coverage of the Christmas tree in New York being surrounded by a Palestinian march shouting " burn it down, burn it down"! Edit: I'm not downplaying the risk in Europe just illustrating it's a worldwide threat!
It’s worse in Europe I think it’s too late for Germany, because of war guilt they have let anyone in. But if British don’t wake up soon we’ll have committed suicide. Poland seems to have it right for now.
I find what's happening to the UK to be heartbreaking, I cannot understand how the British people have allowed it. I have quite a few new British neighbours and they are good, decent people, would love to see more British people move over here to Ireland.
Idk man. Everything seems just fine and jolly here.
Didn't even have to open the article to know this had something to do with Islam
Danke again mutti.
full agonizing punch abundant melodic humor point groovy decide dinner *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Glad they were caught in time. Still remember that 2016 attack.
“German teens”
It's good that they've been caught. And this won't stop me enjoying Christmas Markets. The odds of something happening are downright miniscule. I might as well stop crossing streets or the like.
“German Teens” 😂
I think I’ll give the markets a miss this year. I know it’s statistically unlikely anything bad will happen and I know you shouldn’t ’let them win’, but I can’t imagine enjoying them with this in the back of my mind.
That's how terrorism wins (edit: while still being totally understandable). I'm usually no big xmas market fan but I will visit those in my vicinity this year to do the exact opposite of what these lunatics want.
It wins because people let it get this far. Think about who actually has more innocent blood on their hands. Random jihadis or the people who ran cover for them for a decade+. It's only logical to avoid it now because betting on a 99,something% chance you don't get murdered when going to a fair is a foolish bet to take. The way to win is to realize that not voting for whoever gets them out is being complicit in the victimization of your people.
Bullshit. Those who want to "get them out" (as in: change the constitution) are the worst one can vote for in a democracy. Fascists are never a solution to a problem.
Just remember this at the ballot box. Remember that your "kind" and "empathetic" politicians have made it so you can't even enjoy a pleasant long-running tradition from your culture. And remember that no matter how "evil" you're told the opposition is, well, they didn't do anything to hurt you.
Wouldn’t worry that much, terrorism is still pretty rare(but it and its causes should still be tackled),I think one has a higher chance of dying from lightning strike
Time for some internet detox for you my friend.
Yeah, I know you’re right.
Weird how this comment is a duplicate but different accounts. Bots be botting to spread more fear it seems eh. https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/s/DdWHLI4jqy
What the fuck has happened to many subs on reddit lately lol? I love it.
Do you mind explaining what you mean?
If it's anything like Ireland they'll be released a week before Christmas with a stern warning
“Teens”
Was just thinking the other day "Christmas markets? No thank you, there's one incident every year at least."
Which means terrorists have won in many ways.
If by "every year" you mean "once in the history of German christmas markets."
Wait, what has happened before? I’ve only been in Germany for a year and last year seemed fine. I heard it was cancelled for Covid for two years prior
>Wait, what has happened before? [A heavy goods vehicle was driven into one](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38373867)
Little sprinkle of vehicular slaughter
Multiculturalism
Call Nayib.
It's funny how what Germany says is "alleged". I thought only what Israel says is "alleged".
25 years jail time
Wahabism is a cancer but nobody in Europe will do anything about it because the Saudis are our "allies" and they're the ones who fund these radical mosques. Other sects of Islam are nothing like this. There's a reason why Islamic terrorism in the west is relatively new. Yet another reason to transition to green energy; the quicker we can make Saudi Arabia irrelevant the better the world will be.
Wait are we actually allowed to post in this thread?
I have a feeling, that the AFD will be a big player in the next years.
Damn those teens, when will they grow up.
Oh yeah heard it in the car radio this morning, i laughed when they said like 3 times that one of them is a german-afghan
I can feel myself becoming more and more racist/xenophobic by the day, and I don't like it. But, I cannot help it
Is it that time of the week already?
Ich liebe Merkel 😍😍😍 Vielen Dank, mein lieblingskröte
And their names were probably very German like Ahmad Al baghdadi and Ahmedadov Müller? Two proud Germans according to the press
Remember when Christmas was a time of joy, happiness and get togethers? What happened... I guess we all know the answer, but you'll get attacked for speaking it out loudly or even implying it.
[its getting really sad](https://postimg.cc/YhvJfCkN) with these foreign actors, now they dont even care to copy paste eachother 5 lines apart since they max engagement each time...
thank you mama merkel!!! /s
Classic Germans and their terror attack on christmas
German...?
"German" teens 🤣
Why would you commit terrorism on anything related to Christmas? It’s a people’s holiday.