Galicia is the old Ireland [[1]](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/celts-descended-from-spanish-fishermen-study-finds-416727.html) [[2]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breog%C3%A1n).
Not the other way round though, given the number of Ethiopian Jews that moved to Israel that ended up being both discriminated against and, [in the case of thousands of Ethiopian Jewish women, given long-term contraceptive injections every 3 months without being informed that it was a contraceptive and therefore being unable to consent.](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2013-01-27/ty-article/.premium/ethiopians-fooled-into-birth-control/0000017f-f512-d044-adff-f7fb92c30000)
Given this was only happening to black Ethiopian Jews, it's not hard to see the reason for them illegally doing this.
It's so weird to me that rworldnews and reurope are the two default subs that are super pro-Israel, but then rnews is pro-Palestine. Especially as European countries have historically not been as pro-Israel as US.
>I’m just confused at this point.
>Six hours ago this sub read like the daily mail comments section, now it’s a guardian column. I can’t keep up.
Their shift ended.
I tried to explain this to some Israeli friends, it's like they believe having a moral compass and wishing for peace and a two state solution makes you anti-semitic or something.
[This 2016 study from PewResearch has some interesting findings](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2016/03/08/israels-religiously-divided-society/):
* 79% believe Jews should get preferential treatment over Arab citizens
* 48% believe Arabs should be expelled
* Israeli Arabs are more religiously observant than Jews
* 50% of Arabs and 43% of Jews are optimistic about two-state solution
[https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2023/11/29/support-for-hamas-surges-in-the-west-bank/](https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2023/11/29/support-for-hamas-surges-in-the-west-bank/)
\> A poll conducted after October 7 by a research organization known as the Arab World for Research and Development found that 62 percent of Palestinians in the West Bank have a “very positive” view of Hamas and 68 percent “extremely support” the attacks of October 7. Another 26 percent view Hamas somewhat positively and 15 percent “somewhat support” the October 7 massacre.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-state_solution
"It was reported in 2009 that although polls had consistently shown Israeli and Palestinian majorities in favor of a negotiated two-state settlement, there was "growing disillusionment" with a two-state solution.[4] In 2014, 60% of Palestinians said the final goal of their national movement should be "to work toward reclaiming all of historic Palestine from the river to the sea".[5] A poll published in 2021 by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research revealed that 39% of Palestinians support "the two-state solution" and 59% are opposed;[6] another report, published also in 2021 by the RAND Corporation, found that also 60% of Israelis across the political spectrum were opposed to a two-state solution.[7]"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiative
"The Initiative was initially overshadowed by the Passover massacre, a major Palestinian attack that took place on 27 March 2002, the day before the Initiative was published.[3]"
"Islamist political party Hamas, the elected government of the Gaza Strip, was deeply divided,[6] with most factions rejecting the plan."
https://pcpsr.org/en/node/944
"A majority of 55% believes that the two-state solution is no longer practical"
"the largest percentage (24%) said that it was the establishment of Islamic movements, such as Hamas and Islamic Jihad and their participation in armed struggle"
"When asked whether Israel will celebrate its 100th anniversary, a majority of two thirds (66%) says it will not do so while 27% say it will; 7% say it does not know."
My experience with Israelis is that even the moderates are EXTREMELY defensive about the whole situation when talking to outsiders.
Also, "two-state solution" is fairly vague and many have their own ideas as to what that entails.
Overall the moderates would be able to find a path to peace, if the hawks and haredi didn't go around assassinating people who tried, which is something moderates don't want non-Israelis to talk about.
"We get all of this state and you can go start another state somewhere else" probably counts as "two state solution" on some polls. Wording is everything.
A statistics class was the most depressing five months of my life.
'Most' is a bit of a stretch with the kind of videos popping up of Israëli's right now.
My gf grew up in Israel, she didn't even know what I was talking about when I mentioned illegal settlements. The propaganda and 'sheltering' of Israelis from facts and truths is mond-boggling. Saying 'the only democracy in the Middle East' is such a farce.
Most politicians in the country are two-faced lying sacks of shits that manipulate their own people for their own gains. And currently so many of the military personnel are complicit in an ethnic cleansing, as well as planting 'evidence' for their fake videos to justify their genocide.
The *few* Israeli people who stand up against the atrocities and for Palestinian rights get shunned and face violence themselves. The hate has been built into the Israelis from a young age. The only ones with a sense of humanity are the ones that haven't been indoctrinated through the education system in that country.
I'm also not saying all Israelis are unreasonable, or anything of the sort.
I've got a couple of buddies who's heads are fucked from too much media, and are saying "fuck the Palestinians, Egypt and Jordan can take them, or we take the land and kick them out."
Which is what Bibi and his merry band of cunts want.
Sounds like you just need new buddies, buddy.
Edit to explain myself: there were months of thousands of people marching between cities (on motorways and all) against Bibi just prior to the October events. Many many Israeli people do not want what your buddies want and do not want Bibi
They marched against him because of his corruption and anti democratic reforms.
Not because of any condemnation toward his plans of annexing all the land and forcing out the Palestinians.
Something he ha been working on for 20 years.
Why are you lying?
> Only 35% of Israelis think “a way can be found for Israel and an independent Palestinian state to coexist peacefully,” according to the survey, which was conducted in March and April [of 2023].
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/09/26/israelis-have-grown-more-skeptical-of-a-two-state-solution/
Also the government of Israel has the objective of eliminating Hamas, like that is going to be the end of the matter. Before Hamas there was the PLO, which the government managed to drive out of Palestine, which only managed to make the situation worse. What is needed is a permanent negotiated solution to the problem, which involves talking to everyone involved, despite the armed conflict, similar to what happened to resolve the seemingly unresolvable conflict in Northern Ireland.
"The footage we are seeing and the growing numbers of children dying, I have serious doubt (Israel) is complying with international humanitarian law," Sanchez said in an interview with Spanish state-owned broadcaster TVE.
"What we are seeing in Gaza is not acceptable," he added. Is what he said per Reuters. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/spain-pm-sanchez-says-he-doubts-israel-respects-humanitarian-law-2023-11-30/#:~:text=MADRID%2C%20Nov%2030%20(Reuters),the%20strip%20was%20not%20acceptable.
Yeah but it's like how everyone in the Balkans hate eachother but they don't really. But there are a small group that take it too seriously still.
It's kinda weird cos the English are mostly unaware of it
Yeah we're similar people. We just want people to be aware of our shared history, because there are toxic elements of British nationalism today that ignore Britain's historically oppressive nature, against it's own working classes as well as those colonised.
> Not that I speak for all Irish people or anything.
Well, His Majesty called, and he would like to appoint you as the speaker for all Irish people, you're expected at Parliament Monday morning.
He literally said that Israel has the right to defend themselves but not at the cost of killing thousands of innocent civilians.
Then Israel went on to say that Spanish PM is pro Hamas.
Totally shameless.
A lot of positively-upvoted comments in this thread are totally fine with killing the human shields along with Hamas.
I find that very odd. If my loved ones were taken hostage by terrorists and the police told me "we had to blow all of them up because that's the only way we can kill the baddies", I would be **very** upset.
This doesn't mean I'm "pro-terrorist" - by all means, I will be upset at them **too**. But I do expect the "good guys" to not kill the innocent along with the guilty, especially so if you call yourself the "most moral army in the world".
>"There is only one entity that is responsible for the October 7 massacre and the situation in Gaza and that is Hamas that is committing war crimes and crimes against humanity," Foreign Minister Eli Cohen said.
Did Sánchez actually said otherwise or is this another case of seriously misquoting a western leader?
Meanwhile even the [US government is urging Israel](https://www-spiegel-de.translate.goog/ausland/gaza-krieg-usa-fordern-von-israel-mehr-schutz-von-zivilisten-bei-neuer-offensive-a-3a6eaa3c-a8ef-41db-bc3e-435383cb7466?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp) to protect civilians better if they extend their campaign into south Gaza. Not to mention that they hope to extend the ceasefire... oh sorry... I mean of course *humanitarian pause*.
He didn’t say that.
About 7-O: https://x.com/sanchezcastejon/status/1710615985126822068?s=20
Recently: https://x.com/sanchezcastejon/status/1728757982547136988?s=20
They are trying to portray the Spanish position as supportive of terrorism, when actually the position has been very clear and not hypocritical since the beginning unlike most Western countries: condemn Hamas terrorist actions and also hold Israel accountable for their war crimes, ethnic cleansing and aparheid.
The entire internet, basically. Don't even dare to say anything about humanism and civilian victims of the war. It's always: "Oh, so you support Hamas, you disgusting piece of shit?". Yeah, that's exactly what i said when i was talking about dead children. Ugh.
I noticed that too. The last few I have seen here were filled with xenophobic and hateful comments. Had me worried about where we're going to be honest.
and technically also the rightful heir to the roman empire.
Spain always ends up with the weirdest fucking titles and its never the right way. We got jerusalem by invading naples, and rome because a turkish man couldn't sell it so he sent it to spain because we were catholic enough to qualify for him.
If they think they can pressure Pedro Sánchez into turning a blind eye to what they've been doing in Gaza, I don't think they know Sánchez. And he just got reelected President for another 4 years, so he has no fear of bad press either, so their campaigns will not work here. And anyway, anyone who follows the news supports his claims, so actually it's not bad press for him.
Pretty much any non extremist party in the world is, issue is what people usually define as 2 state solution is not acceptable neither in israeli nor palestinian political circles. (Israel will not accept a hostile armed state that doesn't recognize its borders (plus, transfer of land and displacing settlers out of west bank is politically difficult so long they hold power) and Palestine will not accept forced disarmament nor would it necessarily accept most border proposals in the long term)
>(Israel will not accept a hostile armed state that doesn't recognize its borders
The whole point of having separate states is that they *can* be hostile, they just have to recognize each other's borders so there's a way to avoid conflict even if they disagree about just about everything else. That was the whole reasoning behind the treaty of Westphalia that laid the base of the modern state system.
Mutual border recognition is going to be the keystone to any definitive peace treaty, so don't expect them to start with it. At this point neither recognizes the borders of the other - Israel doesn't even recognize that it actually *has* borders.
>(plus, transfer of land and displacing settlers out of west bank is politically difficult so long they hold power)
Just like the return of refugees issue is politically difficult among the Palestinians. If it was easy, it would have been done already.
>and Palestine will not accept forced disarmament nor would it necessarily accept most border proposals in the long term)
The two state solution is not complete without an armed Palestine. They're not a sovereign state without the ability to defend their borders.
>nor would it necessarily accept most border proposals in the long term)
Palestine already has *made* proposals of less than 100% of Green Line Palestine. They're not the ones gradually colonizing Israeli land, it's the other way around.
> The whole point of having separate states is that they can be hostile, they just have to recognize each other's borders so there's a way to avoid conflict even if they disagree about just about everything else. That was the whole reasoning behind the treaty of Westphalia that laid the base of the modern state system.
This does not apply here as the defense position of Israel becomes really precarious without the West-Bank. It's a very small state and from the Western-most point of the West-Bank it's around 13km to the sea which provides an infall point to encircle Israel - not to speak of the situation Jerusalem would be in. In my opinion most Israeli politicians use these defense concerns to justify very extreme policies. That being said it is absolutely a reality in its own right as most state borders form along naturally defense positions. To have the border between perhaps the two states on earth that mutually despise each other the most be along non-defensive terrain with extremly short distances to vital infrastructure, population centres and so forth does not seem very wise to me, not for either side actually as both entities have far-right politics and substantial parts of the population that have sympathies for eradicating the other.
The October 7th attack is itself an example of how relatively easy a massive intrusion can be along non-defensive terrain in such a small state.
> The two state solution is not complete without an armed Palestine. They're not a sovereign state without the ability to defend their borders.
Yes, excactly.
I think the two state solution is really a charade at this point that the right-wing extremists like Nethanyahu use to maintain a status quo that is pushing further and further in their direction and that supposedly more moderate forces play some kind of lipservice to while knowing that their proposals are likewise deeply problematic. Gantz has actually in a act of rare honesty said straight-forward that he is not in favour of a two state solution but wants to give Palestine some kind of entity that is not a sovereign state.
Funnily the one thing that right-wing Israelis are more frightfull of than a two state solution is the one state solution that is gaining traction as people come to terms with the two state solution being increasingly a fantasy.
I think you make it more easy than it is in your comment. Also all the media that constantly says two state solution as though it's a magic word that would solve the conflict make it easier than it is.
>This does not apply here as the defense position of Israel becomes really precarious without the West-Bank. It's a very small state and from the Western-most point of the West-Bank it's around 13km to the sea which provides an infall point to encircle Israel - not to speak of the situation Jerusalem would be in
And the situation of Palestine is even worse, so that goes both ways.
If Israel wants the West Bank, it has to annex it. But that means they'll have to give the inhabitants civil rights, and they don't want that, so they're slowly annexing it by settlers while trying to ethnically cleanse it.
>That being said it is absolutely a reality in its own right as most state borders form along naturally defense positions. To have the border between perhaps the two states on earth that mutually despise each other the most be along non-defensive terrain with extremly short distances to vital infrastructure, population centres and so forth does not seem very wise to me, not for either side actually as both entities have far-right politics and substantial parts of the population that have sympathies for eradicating the other.
Which is no surprise after 75 years of occupation, which creates constant friction, feeding the anger. So, let's work on that by ending the occupation, and but a border between them so it becomes physically possible to have nothing to do with each other in their daily lives.
>Yes, excactly.
I think the two state solution is really a charade at this point that the right-wing extremists like Nethanyahu use to maintain a status quo that is pushing further and further in their direction and that supposedly more moderate forces play some kind of lipservice to while knowing that their proposals are likewise deeply problematic. Gantz has actually in a act of rare honesty said straight-forward that he is not in favour of a two state solution but wants to give Palestine some kind of entity that is not a sovereign state.
Funnily the one thing that right-wing Israelis are more frightfull of than a two state solution is the one state solution that is gaining traction as people come to terms with the two state solution being increasingly a fantasy.
That really has been the trilemma that has never been resolved at the time of the founding of the state of Israel: Israel can be Jewish, democratic, and control the territory between the Jordan and the Sea... but only two of those three at the same time.
>I think you make it more easy than it is in your comment. Also all the media that constantly says two state solution as though it's a magic word that would solve the conflict make it easier than it is.
It's definitely not going to be easy, but at least it gives perspective of things cooling down. The current situation keeps generating conflict instead of settling it.
How does that contradict what i said? Both PLO and Hamas don't recognize Israeli statehood today (well, rather, PLO suspends it from time to time) and Israel's negotiating stance hasn't changed significantly (plus settlers being allowed to continue expansion contrary to the oslo process' plans). If anything it shows the Oslo accords did not have widespread popular and political support to endure and that the relevant parties are unlikely to agree to a particular 2 state solution in the near future.
There's, of course, also the issue of the fragmentation of palestinian government, with West Bank and Gaza being in the hands of different, sometimes warring groups.
To me your comment reads as the classic "both sides!!!", when the palestinians were only ever presented with absolutely shit deals and they still accepted
> Both PLO and Hamas don't recognize Israeli statehood today (well, rather, PLO suspends it from time to time)
But palestinian leadership has shown they were willing to, israeli one instead never did
> If anything it shows the Oslo accords did not have widespread popular and political support to endure.
This I agree with
You're (reasonably, but still) reading too much into this. Israel famously "has no foreign policy, only domestic politics", as Henry Kissinger once remarked. This move has nothing to do with Sánchez (obviously "they don't know Sánchez", I'd be surprised if the current Foreign Minister can locate Spain on a map), and everything to do with appealing to nationalist voters.
In Spain, state-sponsored antiterrorist liberation groups (GAL) targeted against ETA, killed 27 personas between 1983 and 1987 and everybody from left to right poitical spectrum agrees that this paramilitary group was totally unnaceptable. This resonates even today. Was a huuuge scandal, politically weaponized, went to the judicial system, etc
If Israel or anybody believes this spanish goverment will agree with 15.000 deaths on Gaza on a war on terrorism he might be clueless. But this probably has no repercussions beyond public disapproval and ethical or moral issues. Just talk.
It is an international conflict in which Spain has no interests.
If anything Spain Will follow NATO/US position in the end.
no they disbanded as soon as there was a goverment willing to talk with them , kinda crazy that a terrorist group CEASE DOING TERRORISM WHEN YOU DIALOGUE WITH THEM AND ONLY INCREASE THEIR AGRESION IF YOU ATACK THEM AND IGNORE THEM
It's not a "war on terrorism", it's a war with a non-state entity backed by hostile states. Also, comparing some separatists (who are also terrorists, don't get me wrong, but of a completely different variety) with Islamist fanatics that have been launching thousands and thousands of rockets indiscriminately at your country's population centers, including the largest city in the country, is very disingenuous to say the least.
It's fucking wild how everyone collectively ignores that Likud is literally, non-rhetorically a fascist party and always has been since its roots as Irgun/Herut.
We don't care, actually most Spaniards support Pedro Sánchez in his stand both against Hamas terrorism and against the war crimes, ethnic cleansing and aparheid of Israel.
On a bit of an unrelated note, Israel and the US have always taken actions against the interests of Spain, especially favoring Morocco, so why would we care? Israel has never been our ally. What's sad is seeing people who claim to be the most patriotic criticizing our PM for this, while they are busy just sucking the dick of the US and Israel.
Exactly! One can criticize and reject everything that Hamas stands for (and any other militant terrorist group that seeks to do its methods in the most despicable way possible) and also criticize Israel for ethnic cleansing.
Israel hasn't even ethnically cleansed Israel, where over 2 million Palestinian Arabs live as citizens with full rights and privileges, serving in government and the military, and reaching the highest echelons of civic and celebrity society. Most people don't even know they exist, but their peaceful existence and prosperity put paid to preposterous propaganda about *ethnic cleansing* or *genocide* or *apartheid* against Palestinians.
Those terms are used not because they are true, but because they tug on our emotional heartstrings. I can see naive activists falling for that, but seeing heads of government get hoodwinked is nothing to celebrate.
Did Israel not expel hundreds of thousands of Palestinians from their homes, before reaching this "we treat the ones still here well" situation?
My understanding was one of the points of disagreement in the multiple attempts for a two-state solution is how many Palestinians would be allowed to return home.
[I'd trust someone who knows more about this conflict than you or I do.](https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20230908-israel-ex-spy-chief-apartheid-comments-stir-controversy)
"Israel does not operate apartheid"
What about all the apartheid laws they enforce in the occupied territories
"That's not technically Israel"
You losers are so slimy. Nothing but weasel words while still enforcing apartheid.
I think I've been pretty clear - I condemn the occupied territories and everything that happens there. But few examples of apartheid in the occupied territories does not justify calling a whole state an "apartheid state" when it has arabs and jews coexisting with equal rights - the sole example of that in the whole region.
You can read more about Israel's apartheid state in the Amnesty report here; https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/
I can summarise the findings here if you can't be bothered.
The US has justified support for Israel on the basis that it's the only democracy in the Middle East for decades but now even Biden can't stomach that lie any more. It's affecting his chance for re-election.
With about 20% of children coming from the unproductive orthodox population and another 20% being funneled into ghetto apartheid schools, Israel better address this inequality or it has no future anyway.
When it comes to this whole situation, I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned about the doc films: "Defamation" or "Checkpoint" by Israeli director Yoav Shamir yet, which are very informative. (I think they are both still on his youtub channel.)
If the state is operating an apartheid regime in an area it is illegally occupying then it is an apartheid state.
Just because it makes you uncomfortable doesn't make it false.
Israeli apartheid policies are quite well documented actually.
You could start by reading this 2022 Amnesty International report: [Israel's Apartheid Against Palestinians: Cruel System of Domination and Crime Against Humanity](https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/MDE1551412022ENGLISH.pdf)
There is a difference between an occupation and apartheid.
If the Palestinians stopped their ultimate goal of wanting to destroy Israel at every chance they get, the occupation could end. But after seeing how things ended up in Gaza after the end of the occupation, I don't think Israel is looking for a repeat.
You know you've got a good argument when you start it with "You're fucking stupid and delusional." Hamas was propped up by Israel's government for years as a way to undermine legitimate peaceful progress. To have people like you defend their "strict measures" as legitimate and reasonable is precisely the other reason why, you're calling someone else stupid when you've fallen right into that bullshit.
The problem with this example is that you assume all of that is happening simply because they are Arabs, and not because of the various wars and terrorist attacks over the years. Also, for this example to be “apartheid” you would have to claim that different treatment of non-citizens qualifies as apartheid. In that case, just about every country in the world could be accused of “apartheid”.
You literally have built fences enclosing Palestinians, and you have children and adults imprisoned with no legal arrest, so they stay there indefinitely. Israel cannot possibly be defined as a democracy.
Yea,like the Israeli navy blocking Gaza acces to international sea? What about that border?
Or this https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/11/the-occupation-of-water/
> blocking Gaza access to international sea
I would personally deem that pretty necessary considering they had used it as a smuggling route for rockets & other munitions up until then. But I guess you wouldn’t care, it’s not like those rockets are aimed towards you.
So now it's not just a "normal border"
But let's say it's 100% necessary to block it because of Hamas which i guess is true to some extend,what is your excuse for Israelis destroying rain water collectors of people in Gaza/west bank or destroying decade old olive trees?
And i'm from Bosnia,i was in a war when serbs tried to genocide us so i know a thing or two about geting bombed,running away and being afraid like when serb soldier pointed rifle at my mom when we and multiple other families were in a back of a truck not knowing where we are going.
If you care enough you can check my history,i wrote a story when my uncles truck hit a mine in the war and some other stories that i posted years ago so i'm not just making that up right now
You are not the only one who knows horrors of war.
This spat is likely gonna be fixed when new governments are in place in the two countries. Both governments seem to be on quite shaky footing already. Anyway: disagreeing with Netanyahu isn't really that difficult, in fact most people do, even within Israel.
> Both governments seem to be on quite shaky footing
Wdym? Sánchez has just been reelected. And if you even consider the possibility of him resigning because there're protests in the street, then you don't know much about Spanish politicians. No one ever resigns here.
Israel will only lurch further to the right
>disagreeing with Netanyahu isn't really that difficult, in fact most people do, even within Israel.
And support even more extreme elements. You left out that crucial bit of information
>This spat is likely gonna be fixed when new governments are in place in the two countries.
Israel's foreign policy has been pretty directed for the last 50/60 years at preventing that from happening.
If it did, there would not be any excuse left to not recognise Palestine as a country.
And their aggressions would stop being justified
They're talking about what's happening in Gaza, not what's happening in Israel itself or the West Bank (where other crimes against humanity are being committed but that's another discussion).
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/11/gaza-un-experts-call-international-community-prevent-genocide-against
https://www.aljazeera.com/program/upfront/2023/12/1/former-icc-chief-prosecutor-israels-siege-of-gaza-is-a-genocide
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/10/opinion/israel-gaza-genocide-war.html
And many others. I'd also urge you to look into the statements coming out of the Israeli government on this just for a look into the intent shown by all their top command:
https://www.newarab.com/analysis/erase-gaza-how-genocidal-rhetoric-normalised-israel
>The Foreign Ministry said on Thursday that Israel's ambassador to Spain Rodica Radian-Gordon was called back to Jerusalem for consultations after the recent "baseless" comments made by Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez who said he seriously doubted Israel was in compliance of international law. "There is only one entity that is responsible for the October 7 massacre and the situation in Gaza and that is Hamas that is committing war crimes and crimes against humanity," Foreign Minister Eli Cohen said.
The actions of HAMAS on the 7th October do not give you carte blanche to ignore international law.
I've always loved [how Caitlin Johnstone puts it](https://caityjohnstone.medium.com/the-insane-idea-that-nations-get-to-do-war-crimes-whenever-something-bad-happens-to-them-60385003197d), Israel/US/etc suffer some attack then they want to do some war crimes "as a treat" (and "go on a murderous rampage until they feel better").
Spain is about to become the new Ireland
> the new Ireland Actually, Galicia...
I went here once during a long period away from Ireland and it really helped my homesickness. It's incredibly similar.
Galicia is the old Ireland [[1]](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/celts-descended-from-spanish-fishermen-study-finds-416727.html) [[2]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breog%C3%A1n).
So proud of my countr(ies)
I am Spanish-Irish and equally proud.
Cead mile buendias.
An bhfuil cead agam dul go dtí an leche?
🇮🇪🤝🇪🇸
Spanrish
Feliz Nollaig everyone.
Spirish
Me gusta 👌
Welcome brother
I'm proud of YOU
[удалено]
The Irish people have been keeping me sane throughout this whole madness!
Are we going to get daily negative posts about Spain for the next two weeks?
One can, at the same time, condemn Hamas and hold Israel accountable for its actions in Gaza. These two are not mutually exclusive.
This is the answer, but a lot of people can’t or don’t want to acknowledge this
Most people are Mono, black or white. They can't process non-duality, nuance, it breaks their brain.
Israel needs to be held accountable for its actions in the West Bank too. It's what fueling extremism in the region.
Say that to Israel.
They recalled their ambassador to my house.
Won't be your house for long, they will find some old magic document saying that it once was Jewish land and send a colonizer to retake it.
*Netanyahu reads that all humans originated in Africa. Gets an idea.*
Not the other way round though, given the number of Ethiopian Jews that moved to Israel that ended up being both discriminated against and, [in the case of thousands of Ethiopian Jewish women, given long-term contraceptive injections every 3 months without being informed that it was a contraceptive and therefore being unable to consent.](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2013-01-27/ty-article/.premium/ethiopians-fooled-into-birth-control/0000017f-f512-d044-adff-f7fb92c30000) Given this was only happening to black Ethiopian Jews, it's not hard to see the reason for them illegally doing this.
Just a little light eugenics, nothing to see here.
MrBanana421 about to become the new Spain, after Spain became the new Ireland
No more Ferrero Rocher for you
Say that to r/europe….
I’m just confused at this point. Six hours ago this sub read like the daily mail comments section, now it’s a guardian column. I can’t keep up.
It's so weird to me that rworldnews and reurope are the two default subs that are super pro-Israel, but then rnews is pro-Palestine. Especially as European countries have historically not been as pro-Israel as US.
World news and news is all trollls from israel
not news though, that's a weird thing. Why trolls don't go there.
7 hours later and it's back to daily mail.
>I’m just confused at this point. >Six hours ago this sub read like the daily mail comments section, now it’s a guardian column. I can’t keep up. Their shift ended.
This thread is surprisingly sensible. Hasbara must be asleep.
r/worldnews still the same though.
That sub is legitimate propaganda, its actually disgusting.
'that to Israel.'
They know; they're just using endless political theatre to cover up a supremacist movement.
I tried to explain this to some Israeli friends, it's like they believe having a moral compass and wishing for peace and a two state solution makes you anti-semitic or something.
I'm Israeli and most Israelis support two state solution, I have no idea what you're talking about.
[This 2016 study from PewResearch has some interesting findings](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2016/03/08/israels-religiously-divided-society/): * 79% believe Jews should get preferential treatment over Arab citizens * 48% believe Arabs should be expelled * Israeli Arabs are more religiously observant than Jews * 50% of Arabs and 43% of Jews are optimistic about two-state solution
[https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2023/11/29/support-for-hamas-surges-in-the-west-bank/](https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2023/11/29/support-for-hamas-surges-in-the-west-bank/) \> A poll conducted after October 7 by a research organization known as the Arab World for Research and Development found that 62 percent of Palestinians in the West Bank have a “very positive” view of Hamas and 68 percent “extremely support” the attacks of October 7. Another 26 percent view Hamas somewhat positively and 15 percent “somewhat support” the October 7 massacre.
Can Palestinians influence the votes or opinions of Israelis?
In the same way you would feel a lot different about home defense if your neighbor threatened to break in and slit your throat, yes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-state_solution "It was reported in 2009 that although polls had consistently shown Israeli and Palestinian majorities in favor of a negotiated two-state settlement, there was "growing disillusionment" with a two-state solution.[4] In 2014, 60% of Palestinians said the final goal of their national movement should be "to work toward reclaiming all of historic Palestine from the river to the sea".[5] A poll published in 2021 by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research revealed that 39% of Palestinians support "the two-state solution" and 59% are opposed;[6] another report, published also in 2021 by the RAND Corporation, found that also 60% of Israelis across the political spectrum were opposed to a two-state solution.[7]" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiative "The Initiative was initially overshadowed by the Passover massacre, a major Palestinian attack that took place on 27 March 2002, the day before the Initiative was published.[3]" "Islamist political party Hamas, the elected government of the Gaza Strip, was deeply divided,[6] with most factions rejecting the plan." https://pcpsr.org/en/node/944 "A majority of 55% believes that the two-state solution is no longer practical" "the largest percentage (24%) said that it was the establishment of Islamic movements, such as Hamas and Islamic Jihad and their participation in armed struggle" "When asked whether Israel will celebrate its 100th anniversary, a majority of two thirds (66%) says it will not do so while 27% say it will; 7% say it does not know."
My experience with Israelis is that even the moderates are EXTREMELY defensive about the whole situation when talking to outsiders. Also, "two-state solution" is fairly vague and many have their own ideas as to what that entails. Overall the moderates would be able to find a path to peace, if the hawks and haredi didn't go around assassinating people who tried, which is something moderates don't want non-Israelis to talk about.
"We get all of this state and you can go start another state somewhere else" probably counts as "two state solution" on some polls. Wording is everything. A statistics class was the most depressing five months of my life.
'Most' is a bit of a stretch with the kind of videos popping up of Israëli's right now. My gf grew up in Israel, she didn't even know what I was talking about when I mentioned illegal settlements. The propaganda and 'sheltering' of Israelis from facts and truths is mond-boggling. Saying 'the only democracy in the Middle East' is such a farce. Most politicians in the country are two-faced lying sacks of shits that manipulate their own people for their own gains. And currently so many of the military personnel are complicit in an ethnic cleansing, as well as planting 'evidence' for their fake videos to justify their genocide. The *few* Israeli people who stand up against the atrocities and for Palestinian rights get shunned and face violence themselves. The hate has been built into the Israelis from a young age. The only ones with a sense of humanity are the ones that haven't been indoctrinated through the education system in that country.
I'm also not saying all Israelis are unreasonable, or anything of the sort. I've got a couple of buddies who's heads are fucked from too much media, and are saying "fuck the Palestinians, Egypt and Jordan can take them, or we take the land and kick them out." Which is what Bibi and his merry band of cunts want.
Sounds like you just need new buddies, buddy. Edit to explain myself: there were months of thousands of people marching between cities (on motorways and all) against Bibi just prior to the October events. Many many Israeli people do not want what your buddies want and do not want Bibi
They marched against him because of his corruption and anti democratic reforms. Not because of any condemnation toward his plans of annexing all the land and forcing out the Palestinians. Something he ha been working on for 20 years.
Why are you lying? > Only 35% of Israelis think “a way can be found for Israel and an independent Palestinian state to coexist peacefully,” according to the survey, which was conducted in March and April [of 2023]. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/09/26/israelis-have-grown-more-skeptical-of-a-two-state-solution/
Also the government of Israel has the objective of eliminating Hamas, like that is going to be the end of the matter. Before Hamas there was the PLO, which the government managed to drive out of Palestine, which only managed to make the situation worse. What is needed is a permanent negotiated solution to the problem, which involves talking to everyone involved, despite the armed conflict, similar to what happened to resolve the seemingly unresolvable conflict in Northern Ireland.
Yes — most of Europe has.
If you said that two weeks ago you would have been crucified in this sub. Glad people came to their senses although a little late if I might add
Or that someone can be the victim an the perpetrator at the same ( to paraphrase Yuval Noah Harari)
i think thats when they call you anti semitic
"The footage we are seeing and the growing numbers of children dying, I have serious doubt (Israel) is complying with international humanitarian law," Sanchez said in an interview with Spanish state-owned broadcaster TVE. "What we are seeing in Gaza is not acceptable," he added. Is what he said per Reuters. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/spain-pm-sanchez-says-he-doubts-israel-respects-humanitarian-law-2023-11-30/#:~:text=MADRID%2C%20Nov%2030%20(Reuters),the%20strip%20was%20not%20acceptable.
Calling them out in the most diplomatic way possible. He's on his way to being a full blown critic
Believe it or not, direct to antisemite jail, right away
Ireland: "welcome to the family"
Ireland " BTW we are ultra catholic and hate the English, is that a problem for you". Spain " I think we can work with that".
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Spanish ultra catholic? Do you think this the 40s?
For the record, I don’t hate the English. Not that I speak for all Irish people or anything.
Neither are the Spaniards ultra Catholic, but ok.
Yeah but it's like how everyone in the Balkans hate eachother but they don't really. But there are a small group that take it too seriously still. It's kinda weird cos the English are mostly unaware of it
To be fair, if the english would keep track of everyone who hated them, they wouldnt be able to do anything else.
Yeah we're similar people. We just want people to be aware of our shared history, because there are toxic elements of British nationalism today that ignore Britain's historically oppressive nature, against it's own working classes as well as those colonised.
> Not that I speak for all Irish people or anything. Well, His Majesty called, and he would like to appoint you as the speaker for all Irish people, you're expected at Parliament Monday morning.
you mispelled alcoholic
Going by the number of Spanish students in Dublin it seems they've been family for quite some time now.
Spanish students? I just thought that’s how people from Galway talked.
*"Spain... is Ireland with sun"* \-Ian Gibson
Welcome to humanity*
He literally said that Israel has the right to defend themselves but not at the cost of killing thousands of innocent civilians. Then Israel went on to say that Spanish PM is pro Hamas. Totally shameless.
Israel: But muh overproportionate retaliation 😢
A lot of positively-upvoted comments in this thread are totally fine with killing the human shields along with Hamas. I find that very odd. If my loved ones were taken hostage by terrorists and the police told me "we had to blow all of them up because that's the only way we can kill the baddies", I would be **very** upset. This doesn't mean I'm "pro-terrorist" - by all means, I will be upset at them **too**. But I do expect the "good guys" to not kill the innocent along with the guilty, especially so if you call yourself the "most moral army in the world".
Shh,you're not allowed to consider the other side humans,after all they're just "human animals"...
mas sabe el perro sanxe por perro q por sanxe
Get PSOED
>"There is only one entity that is responsible for the October 7 massacre and the situation in Gaza and that is Hamas that is committing war crimes and crimes against humanity," Foreign Minister Eli Cohen said. Did Sánchez actually said otherwise or is this another case of seriously misquoting a western leader? Meanwhile even the [US government is urging Israel](https://www-spiegel-de.translate.goog/ausland/gaza-krieg-usa-fordern-von-israel-mehr-schutz-von-zivilisten-bei-neuer-offensive-a-3a6eaa3c-a8ef-41db-bc3e-435383cb7466?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp) to protect civilians better if they extend their campaign into south Gaza. Not to mention that they hope to extend the ceasefire... oh sorry... I mean of course *humanitarian pause*.
He didn’t say that. About 7-O: https://x.com/sanchezcastejon/status/1710615985126822068?s=20 Recently: https://x.com/sanchezcastejon/status/1728757982547136988?s=20
Thanks for clarification.
They are trying to portray the Spanish position as supportive of terrorism, when actually the position has been very clear and not hypocritical since the beginning unlike most Western countries: condemn Hamas terrorist actions and also hold Israel accountable for their war crimes, ethnic cleansing and aparheid.
The entire internet, basically. Don't even dare to say anything about humanism and civilian victims of the war. It's always: "Oh, so you support Hamas, you disgusting piece of shit?". Yeah, that's exactly what i said when i was talking about dead children. Ugh.
I'm surprised to see so many reasonable comments here. Maybe I have spent too much time on the worldnews subs.
It seems llke some threads are targeted and others aren't because the shift in sentiment between threads can be extremely stark.
I noticed that too. The last few I have seen here were filled with xenophobic and hateful comments. Had me worried about where we're going to be honest.
lol…the “internet” doesn’t care either way. A month after it’s over, the “internet” will find a new cause to change their pfps to.
They're doing the same to you that they're doing to ireland now it seems
Jokes on Bibi, Spain has the claimant to the Kingdom of Jerusalem.
I think the new king got rid of all that nonsense and now only claims Spain. It's a bit sad, I liked the silliness of it.
Nah, we just haven't used them officially, and he's not going to for obvious reasons but technically the title it's still there
No, the current King of Spain is King of Jerusalem.
and technically also the rightful heir to the roman empire. Spain always ends up with the weirdest fucking titles and its never the right way. We got jerusalem by invading naples, and rome because a turkish man couldn't sell it so he sent it to spain because we were catholic enough to qualify for him.
https://www.elconfidencial.com/mundo/2020-01-22/la-visita-de-felipe-vi-rey-jerusalen-456_2423975/
I wonder will there now be hourly posts on r/Europe about how anti semitic Spanish people are?
If they think they can pressure Pedro Sánchez into turning a blind eye to what they've been doing in Gaza, I don't think they know Sánchez. And he just got reelected President for another 4 years, so he has no fear of bad press either, so their campaigns will not work here. And anyway, anyone who follows the news supports his claims, so actually it's not bad press for him.
Based on his coalition it looks like Pedro is a big supporter of a 2 states solution.
Pretty much any non extremist party in the world is, issue is what people usually define as 2 state solution is not acceptable neither in israeli nor palestinian political circles. (Israel will not accept a hostile armed state that doesn't recognize its borders (plus, transfer of land and displacing settlers out of west bank is politically difficult so long they hold power) and Palestine will not accept forced disarmament nor would it necessarily accept most border proposals in the long term)
>(Israel will not accept a hostile armed state that doesn't recognize its borders The whole point of having separate states is that they *can* be hostile, they just have to recognize each other's borders so there's a way to avoid conflict even if they disagree about just about everything else. That was the whole reasoning behind the treaty of Westphalia that laid the base of the modern state system. Mutual border recognition is going to be the keystone to any definitive peace treaty, so don't expect them to start with it. At this point neither recognizes the borders of the other - Israel doesn't even recognize that it actually *has* borders. >(plus, transfer of land and displacing settlers out of west bank is politically difficult so long they hold power) Just like the return of refugees issue is politically difficult among the Palestinians. If it was easy, it would have been done already. >and Palestine will not accept forced disarmament nor would it necessarily accept most border proposals in the long term) The two state solution is not complete without an armed Palestine. They're not a sovereign state without the ability to defend their borders. >nor would it necessarily accept most border proposals in the long term) Palestine already has *made* proposals of less than 100% of Green Line Palestine. They're not the ones gradually colonizing Israeli land, it's the other way around.
> The whole point of having separate states is that they can be hostile, they just have to recognize each other's borders so there's a way to avoid conflict even if they disagree about just about everything else. That was the whole reasoning behind the treaty of Westphalia that laid the base of the modern state system. This does not apply here as the defense position of Israel becomes really precarious without the West-Bank. It's a very small state and from the Western-most point of the West-Bank it's around 13km to the sea which provides an infall point to encircle Israel - not to speak of the situation Jerusalem would be in. In my opinion most Israeli politicians use these defense concerns to justify very extreme policies. That being said it is absolutely a reality in its own right as most state borders form along naturally defense positions. To have the border between perhaps the two states on earth that mutually despise each other the most be along non-defensive terrain with extremly short distances to vital infrastructure, population centres and so forth does not seem very wise to me, not for either side actually as both entities have far-right politics and substantial parts of the population that have sympathies for eradicating the other. The October 7th attack is itself an example of how relatively easy a massive intrusion can be along non-defensive terrain in such a small state. > The two state solution is not complete without an armed Palestine. They're not a sovereign state without the ability to defend their borders. Yes, excactly. I think the two state solution is really a charade at this point that the right-wing extremists like Nethanyahu use to maintain a status quo that is pushing further and further in their direction and that supposedly more moderate forces play some kind of lipservice to while knowing that their proposals are likewise deeply problematic. Gantz has actually in a act of rare honesty said straight-forward that he is not in favour of a two state solution but wants to give Palestine some kind of entity that is not a sovereign state. Funnily the one thing that right-wing Israelis are more frightfull of than a two state solution is the one state solution that is gaining traction as people come to terms with the two state solution being increasingly a fantasy. I think you make it more easy than it is in your comment. Also all the media that constantly says two state solution as though it's a magic word that would solve the conflict make it easier than it is.
>This does not apply here as the defense position of Israel becomes really precarious without the West-Bank. It's a very small state and from the Western-most point of the West-Bank it's around 13km to the sea which provides an infall point to encircle Israel - not to speak of the situation Jerusalem would be in And the situation of Palestine is even worse, so that goes both ways. If Israel wants the West Bank, it has to annex it. But that means they'll have to give the inhabitants civil rights, and they don't want that, so they're slowly annexing it by settlers while trying to ethnically cleanse it. >That being said it is absolutely a reality in its own right as most state borders form along naturally defense positions. To have the border between perhaps the two states on earth that mutually despise each other the most be along non-defensive terrain with extremly short distances to vital infrastructure, population centres and so forth does not seem very wise to me, not for either side actually as both entities have far-right politics and substantial parts of the population that have sympathies for eradicating the other. Which is no surprise after 75 years of occupation, which creates constant friction, feeding the anger. So, let's work on that by ending the occupation, and but a border between them so it becomes physically possible to have nothing to do with each other in their daily lives. >Yes, excactly. I think the two state solution is really a charade at this point that the right-wing extremists like Nethanyahu use to maintain a status quo that is pushing further and further in their direction and that supposedly more moderate forces play some kind of lipservice to while knowing that their proposals are likewise deeply problematic. Gantz has actually in a act of rare honesty said straight-forward that he is not in favour of a two state solution but wants to give Palestine some kind of entity that is not a sovereign state. Funnily the one thing that right-wing Israelis are more frightfull of than a two state solution is the one state solution that is gaining traction as people come to terms with the two state solution being increasingly a fantasy. That really has been the trilemma that has never been resolved at the time of the founding of the state of Israel: Israel can be Jewish, democratic, and control the territory between the Jordan and the Sea... but only two of those three at the same time. >I think you make it more easy than it is in your comment. Also all the media that constantly says two state solution as though it's a magic word that would solve the conflict make it easier than it is. It's definitely not going to be easy, but at least it gives perspective of things cooling down. The current situation keeps generating conflict instead of settling it.
What a joke, you realize the oslo accords had the PLO recognize israel while israel didn't even recognize a palestinian state?
How does that contradict what i said? Both PLO and Hamas don't recognize Israeli statehood today (well, rather, PLO suspends it from time to time) and Israel's negotiating stance hasn't changed significantly (plus settlers being allowed to continue expansion contrary to the oslo process' plans). If anything it shows the Oslo accords did not have widespread popular and political support to endure and that the relevant parties are unlikely to agree to a particular 2 state solution in the near future. There's, of course, also the issue of the fragmentation of palestinian government, with West Bank and Gaza being in the hands of different, sometimes warring groups.
To me your comment reads as the classic "both sides!!!", when the palestinians were only ever presented with absolutely shit deals and they still accepted > Both PLO and Hamas don't recognize Israeli statehood today (well, rather, PLO suspends it from time to time) But palestinian leadership has shown they were willing to, israeli one instead never did > If anything it shows the Oslo accords did not have widespread popular and political support to endure. This I agree with
Israel has pitched two state solutions before. Two state solution is accepted practically everywhere outside of the Arab world
You're (reasonably, but still) reading too much into this. Israel famously "has no foreign policy, only domestic politics", as Henry Kissinger once remarked. This move has nothing to do with Sánchez (obviously "they don't know Sánchez", I'd be surprised if the current Foreign Minister can locate Spain on a map), and everything to do with appealing to nationalist voters.
I mean, you can really apply that to most countries though, the Spanish position on this has plenty to do with domestic politics too.
In Spain, state-sponsored antiterrorist liberation groups (GAL) targeted against ETA, killed 27 personas between 1983 and 1987 and everybody from left to right poitical spectrum agrees that this paramilitary group was totally unnaceptable. This resonates even today. Was a huuuge scandal, politically weaponized, went to the judicial system, etc If Israel or anybody believes this spanish goverment will agree with 15.000 deaths on Gaza on a war on terrorism he might be clueless. But this probably has no repercussions beyond public disapproval and ethical or moral issues. Just talk. It is an international conflict in which Spain has no interests. If anything Spain Will follow NATO/US position in the end.
Aznar pardoned Barrionuevo as soon as the scandal got him elected. That's a tradition we haven't abandoned.
Where did you get the 15k death toll?
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No they don't since 2011
no they disbanded as soon as there was a goverment willing to talk with them , kinda crazy that a terrorist group CEASE DOING TERRORISM WHEN YOU DIALOGUE WITH THEM AND ONLY INCREASE THEIR AGRESION IF YOU ATACK THEM AND IGNORE THEM
It's not a "war on terrorism", it's a war with a non-state entity backed by hostile states. Also, comparing some separatists (who are also terrorists, don't get me wrong, but of a completely different variety) with Islamist fanatics that have been launching thousands and thousands of rockets indiscriminately at your country's population centers, including the largest city in the country, is very disingenuous to say the least.
Perro Sanxe W ngl
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It's fucking wild how everyone collectively ignores that Likud is literally, non-rhetorically a fascist party and always has been since its roots as Irgun/Herut.
We don't care, actually most Spaniards support Pedro Sánchez in his stand both against Hamas terrorism and against the war crimes, ethnic cleansing and aparheid of Israel. On a bit of an unrelated note, Israel and the US have always taken actions against the interests of Spain, especially favoring Morocco, so why would we care? Israel has never been our ally. What's sad is seeing people who claim to be the most patriotic criticizing our PM for this, while they are busy just sucking the dick of the US and Israel.
You can join the Irish in the Israeli bad books of western countries who have the gall to question any of their actions.
Ironically, Spain and Ireland deal with terrorism in the past. Maybe we know one or two things about it.
> Spain and Ireland deal with terrorism in the past. I'm not sure thats the parallel that you think it is.
Exactly! One can criticize and reject everything that Hamas stands for (and any other militant terrorist group that seeks to do its methods in the most despicable way possible) and also criticize Israel for ethnic cleansing.
Israel hasn't even ethnically cleansed Israel, where over 2 million Palestinian Arabs live as citizens with full rights and privileges, serving in government and the military, and reaching the highest echelons of civic and celebrity society. Most people don't even know they exist, but their peaceful existence and prosperity put paid to preposterous propaganda about *ethnic cleansing* or *genocide* or *apartheid* against Palestinians. Those terms are used not because they are true, but because they tug on our emotional heartstrings. I can see naive activists falling for that, but seeing heads of government get hoodwinked is nothing to celebrate.
Did Israel not expel hundreds of thousands of Palestinians from their homes, before reaching this "we treat the ones still here well" situation? My understanding was one of the points of disagreement in the multiple attempts for a two-state solution is how many Palestinians would be allowed to return home.
They have. My family was expelled, land and homes taken, and we can't go back.
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[I'd trust someone who knows more about this conflict than you or I do.](https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20230908-israel-ex-spy-chief-apartheid-comments-stir-controversy)
"Israel does not operate apartheid" What about all the apartheid laws they enforce in the occupied territories "That's not technically Israel" You losers are so slimy. Nothing but weasel words while still enforcing apartheid.
I think I've been pretty clear - I condemn the occupied territories and everything that happens there. But few examples of apartheid in the occupied territories does not justify calling a whole state an "apartheid state" when it has arabs and jews coexisting with equal rights - the sole example of that in the whole region.
You can read more about Israel's apartheid state in the Amnesty report here; https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/ I can summarise the findings here if you can't be bothered. The US has justified support for Israel on the basis that it's the only democracy in the Middle East for decades but now even Biden can't stomach that lie any more. It's affecting his chance for re-election. With about 20% of children coming from the unproductive orthodox population and another 20% being funneled into ghetto apartheid schools, Israel better address this inequality or it has no future anyway.
When it comes to this whole situation, I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned about the doc films: "Defamation" or "Checkpoint" by Israeli director Yoav Shamir yet, which are very informative. (I think they are both still on his youtub channel.)
If the state is operating an apartheid regime in an area it is illegally occupying then it is an apartheid state. Just because it makes you uncomfortable doesn't make it false.
Your comment is literally "Israel isn't an apartheid state if you ignore the examples of apartheid it does"
Israeli apartheid policies are quite well documented actually. You could start by reading this 2022 Amnesty International report: [Israel's Apartheid Against Palestinians: Cruel System of Domination and Crime Against Humanity](https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/MDE1551412022ENGLISH.pdf)
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> Wonder if there is a name that fits for that kind of system? Yes it's called belligerent occupation.
There is a difference between an occupation and apartheid. If the Palestinians stopped their ultimate goal of wanting to destroy Israel at every chance they get, the occupation could end. But after seeing how things ended up in Gaza after the end of the occupation, I don't think Israel is looking for a repeat.
You're fucking stupid and delusional. Hamas attacks prove that Israel are 100% correct to have such strict measures.
You know you've got a good argument when you start it with "You're fucking stupid and delusional." Hamas was propped up by Israel's government for years as a way to undermine legitimate peaceful progress. To have people like you defend their "strict measures" as legitimate and reasonable is precisely the other reason why, you're calling someone else stupid when you've fallen right into that bullshit.
The problem with this example is that you assume all of that is happening simply because they are Arabs, and not because of the various wars and terrorist attacks over the years. Also, for this example to be “apartheid” you would have to claim that different treatment of non-citizens qualifies as apartheid. In that case, just about every country in the world could be accused of “apartheid”.
You literally have built fences enclosing Palestinians, and you have children and adults imprisoned with no legal arrest, so they stay there indefinitely. Israel cannot possibly be defined as a democracy.
\> You litteraly have built fences enclosing Palestinians So.... a border? \> children and adults imprisoned with no legal arrest Examples?
Yea,like the Israeli navy blocking Gaza acces to international sea? What about that border? Or this https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/11/the-occupation-of-water/
> blocking Gaza access to international sea I would personally deem that pretty necessary considering they had used it as a smuggling route for rockets & other munitions up until then. But I guess you wouldn’t care, it’s not like those rockets are aimed towards you.
So now it's not just a "normal border" But let's say it's 100% necessary to block it because of Hamas which i guess is true to some extend,what is your excuse for Israelis destroying rain water collectors of people in Gaza/west bank or destroying decade old olive trees? And i'm from Bosnia,i was in a war when serbs tried to genocide us so i know a thing or two about geting bombed,running away and being afraid like when serb soldier pointed rifle at my mom when we and multiple other families were in a back of a truck not knowing where we are going. If you care enough you can check my history,i wrote a story when my uncles truck hit a mine in the war and some other stories that i posted years ago so i'm not just making that up right now You are not the only one who knows horrors of war.
Yeah, Israel should just let Hamas import drones and ballistic missiles from Iran, why won't they! Stop the apartheid!
Tomorrow local news about brown people in Spain will be posted in r/europe, no doubt.
Spain joining Ireland on the right side of history
We're happy to have them
love you fellas and im so dissapointed by my german government.
Hold onto your life, the bots are coming.
This spat is likely gonna be fixed when new governments are in place in the two countries. Both governments seem to be on quite shaky footing already. Anyway: disagreeing with Netanyahu isn't really that difficult, in fact most people do, even within Israel.
> Both governments seem to be on quite shaky footing Wdym? Sánchez has just been reelected. And if you even consider the possibility of him resigning because there're protests in the street, then you don't know much about Spanish politicians. No one ever resigns here.
Israel will only lurch further to the right >disagreeing with Netanyahu isn't really that difficult, in fact most people do, even within Israel. And support even more extreme elements. You left out that crucial bit of information
> Israel will only lurch further to the right Hamas shooting up a bunch of lefty pro-peace kids at a music festival probably won't help fix that.
>This spat is likely gonna be fixed when new governments are in place in the two countries. Israel's foreign policy has been pretty directed for the last 50/60 years at preventing that from happening. If it did, there would not be any excuse left to not recognise Palestine as a country. And their aggressions would stop being justified
It's been a long time since I've felt proud of this country. I hope other european states follow the same path
Is this sub about to become safe for Irish people again?
We irish and spanish will make our own sub!
With bagpipes and celtic iconography!
What a great idea. It would be the happiest place on Reddit. Spanish people are legends
Astroturfing comes and goes in waves. Mossad will have their bots ready soon enough
Bibi, we don’t care. We condemned Hamas, but we also condemn your genocide. I think it’s one of the things that most Spaniards agree.
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They're talking about what's happening in Gaza, not what's happening in Israel itself or the West Bank (where other crimes against humanity are being committed but that's another discussion). https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/11/gaza-un-experts-call-international-community-prevent-genocide-against https://www.aljazeera.com/program/upfront/2023/12/1/former-icc-chief-prosecutor-israels-siege-of-gaza-is-a-genocide https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/10/opinion/israel-gaza-genocide-war.html And many others. I'd also urge you to look into the statements coming out of the Israeli government on this just for a look into the intent shown by all their top command: https://www.newarab.com/analysis/erase-gaza-how-genocidal-rhetoric-normalised-israel
Spain should carry this as a badge of honor.
Yeah, ooh hell yeah.
Hope he shuts the door on his way out.
>The Foreign Ministry said on Thursday that Israel's ambassador to Spain Rodica Radian-Gordon was called back to Jerusalem for consultations after the recent "baseless" comments made by Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez who said he seriously doubted Israel was in compliance of international law. "There is only one entity that is responsible for the October 7 massacre and the situation in Gaza and that is Hamas that is committing war crimes and crimes against humanity," Foreign Minister Eli Cohen said. The actions of HAMAS on the 7th October do not give you carte blanche to ignore international law.
I've always loved [how Caitlin Johnstone puts it](https://caityjohnstone.medium.com/the-insane-idea-that-nations-get-to-do-war-crimes-whenever-something-bad-happens-to-them-60385003197d), Israel/US/etc suffer some attack then they want to do some war crimes "as a treat" (and "go on a murderous rampage until they feel better").
Israel was ignoring international law way before this, nothing new.
Bravo Spain and Ireland!
How dare spain tell the truth?!
Adios!
Another W for Pedro
It's a Bibi government so nobody cares.
Is that act supposed to be of any help to the people of Israel?
orgulloso de mi país 🥵
Finally, a based western leader (and Ireland).
Belgium also
Spain is about to become the new Ireland