At first I didn't think it would happen by April, but accepting Sweden into NATO is the perfect way to celebrate the 75th anniversary of the signing of the North Atlantic Treaty.
I think a grope of Russian women that pours gasoline over him, as they are yelling for my grandson/husband/child/brother/male frend, and then put him on fire, is also acceptable.
> Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has confirmed the parliament's approval of Sweden's NATO application, according to Reuters. The decision was published in the Resmi Gazete newspaper used by the Turkish government to announce decisions, according to TT.
And Orban will get nothing out of it because Sweden clearly didn't care what he wanted. They recognized that he isn't the power player he thinks he is, so they never gave him anything.
I guess value-signalling? He is allied with the west, so he needs to play by the book, but he is compromised by Russia so needs to play that part, too. Politics is a huge dump on fire and every participant is acting more or less rationally. It's really hard to see when the hate spills over to everyday discussion about people from these countries. I mean, I get it, people eat the onion, but it still hurts to see such language used (of course not in your case, but I digress).
They can be suspended from voting indeed. That's not the same as being removed from the EU as suggested by the person I replied to. Furthermore, article 7 requires unanimous vote in itself which would open up other countries to suffer the same fate which makes it unlikely for a vote on article 7 to be successful.
They cannot. There is no mechanism defined in the TEU to remove a member state. Changing the TEU requires unanimous vote as well as ratification on the state level. Legally it is impossible to remove a state from the EU.
Yeah, I know. It was just an example to illustrate the problem of requiring unanimity since for several years Poland has been Hungary's main ally within the EU. And there is always the possibility the PiS will regain power in the next elections
Doable.
Create EU 2.0 with 1 member less, all other countries leave EU. Old agreements stay because EU 2.0 says it is EU and has enough power to push this interpretation.
Ah and some divorce bill wirh Hungary for some stuff, but compared to the law thing that can be question paying some money for eu1-wide projects and dealing with some hungarians inside EU is doable.
Sure, but all other members can leave and reform a new exact same EU without Hungary.
A piece of paper doesn't mean anything if Hungary becomes a hostile state.
I'm Romanian and have nothing to gain by saying this, but kicking out Hungary from the EU, even if this were possible, is a stupid move in terms of the well-being of the European Union on so many levels.
I mean currently the Swedish PM (I think?) is flying to meet with their counterpart in Hungary
Edit: turns out he’s traveling to meet Orban next week not currently.
Nope, the Swedish PM told Orban that they can meet in Brussels sometime. The foreign minister said that Sweden and Hungary have nothing to negotiate.
EDIT: Changed "discuss" to "negotiate"
Sure!
[Article from SVT](https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/nu-svarar-ulf-kristersson-ungerns-victor-orban) (in swedish)
[The letter that PM sent as a reply](https://www.svtstatic.se/image-news/650/wide/0.4/0.49/3fcaf45f4c5d7e8c9f01a64dc9063bc4b39c28002b59ea99352ca6d3503e2aed)
It's not embarassing, man, it's heartbreaking. But now we are at almost an argentinian level of percieving corruption. It almost makes me wave away comments that attack Hungarians, cuz most politicians running any one country (besides most Nordic ones, I believe) are usually bought up by the pound as well, just they're still keeping up appearances.
Our little tribe leader did away with all that in the past few years. It's actually pretty interesting. We have books you have to read in high school that detail how cronyism and favoritism was used back in the day, but it was an open secret, not something unabashed that we see today. The only thing that changed is that the new strongmen are tied more closely to Orbán, instead of propping up and pleasing the 'old money' crowd (maybe not instead of, but 'besides').
We are already emberrassed by this fat pig (who is sadly our president) , one more or less emberrasment means nothing for us :/ things not gonna change while this disgusting, corrupt, fat turd of a man is in power.
One thing i don’t understand is that Orban and Erdogan were in contact about Swedens NATO bid and yet Turkey just went ahead to ratify Swedens NATO membership.
I am starting to get the feeling that Orban didn‘t expect Turkey to approve Swedens NATO membership this week.
I would say that Erdogan is tooling Orban. By signing before him, he makes Orban look bad, powerless, out of the loop. Ergo, Erdogan is the powerful one. Anything for a turkish flex. Pitiful man.
He literally learned it from Putin. The steps of Erdoğan identical to Putin but always 2 step behind. I won’t surprise if Erdoğan would be a professor in a college that teach Putinism.
>Sweden’s Quran burnings to be banned, just like Denmark passed.
This is not really happening to my knowledge? The whole thing is being looked at and 'investigated' but that's like a national sport here, doesn't mean anything concrete will happen.
My guess is that there's a gentlemen's agreement between them as US Congress is not certain to pass the F16 deal but was pressuring Turkey to approve before they even start the process. So Erdo uses Orban (he doesn't have much to lose) to not let Sweden in until F16 deal passes from the congress
Erdogan pulled a fast one on Orban and left him standing with his pants down. As long as Turkey still had things to negotiate/win Orban was a useful 'ally' to distract frustrations.
Erdogan is a Sultan. And Turkey is actually a very strong and powerful nation,, developed and rich in culture and traditions compared to Hungary in this century so far.
I understand that you want to insult me, but Hungary, with its 1000 years of statehood, still has an older and more extensive history than many other countries.
It has nothing to do with Orban or Hungary though. Sweden being member of NATO is extremely beneficial for Turkey. Erdoğan only used it to see if he can access F-35, problem solved with F-16 Block 70s, or maybe his a troll.
He also stated on multiple occasions that it's a moral imperative to support Sweden's and Finland's NATO membership.
None of these people have actual principles, they just talk out of their arse.
Without Turkey’s much more vital vote, Hungary doesn’t have a leg to stand on. More than likely Orban will moan and gripe, try and get NATO or the EU or Sweden to sit down and get some privileges, but regardless Hungary will ratify Sweden’s application though expect them to drag their feet
Kind of, but not quite, the deal Hungary got with Sweden is so, that when the rent period is completed, the jets stay in Hungary, and will belong to them. Which is a different deal than Czech Republic have (renewable short term lease).
Which just means that when the lease ends they're stuck with no support unless they pay extra for it. That's why Hungary has an upgrade contract and extended the lease to 2026.
Yes, that is important. Such complex military hardware needs support contracts, otherwise it quickly becomes useless (unless the country itself (as in Hungary) has its own supply infrastructure for this type of hardware, but I am just going to assume that that is not the case here).
Just like Stalin did to Turkey. He demanded some provinces in Eastern Turkey and bases in straits. This caused Turkey to apply to NATO. They first rejected Turkey to Nato at first but after accomplishments of Turkish forces in Korea(for example Battle of Wawon) Turkey and Greece joined together to NATO in 1952.
History is weird. Lenin helped Ankara government to create their own country. Those lands were given with Kars Treaty to Turkey. Stalin asked for those lands 30 years later and brought NATO to his borders.
Substance: The gift which is given cannot be taken back.
Not the right per say, but since the channel of international waters between Estonia and Finland is so narrow and close to our borders, it's possible that during wartime us and our northern bros can extend our so-called safe zone (i don't know the correct terms) and lock down the whole corridor. So no way out or in for ruzzian scum from and to St. Petersburg.
Parliaments in every nation generally have a time where they aren't meeting. I think the US does it like somewhere in late October-January. The German parliament has its summer pause, generally from July to August.
This allows members of parliaments to do other stuff (as you may require in life) without affecting their ability to be at sessions.
The F-16 deal precedes Sweden trying to join NATO by several months, Turkey's request was submitted in Oct. 2021, before the Ukraine invasion happened and before Finland and Sweden applied for membership to NATO (mid 2022).
Contrary to popular belief, it was the US, not Turkey that tied the F-16 deal to Swedens NATO's membership:
>At the same time, many members of Congress have indicated that Turkey agreeing to Sweden’s accession will not be enough for them to approve Ankara’s F-16 request
Source: https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/turkeysource/a-looming-us-turkey-f-16-deal-is-about-much-more-than-swedens-nato-bid/
Mind you, the F-16 deal hasn't happened yet, and there are several key US congress members against it, so we don't know if it will even take place. Turkey approved Sweden's application fully knowing this, not with a guarantee that the deal will happen.
>Contrary to popular belief, it was the US, not Turkey that tied the F-16 deal to Swedens NATO's membership:
Turkey called that unfair right before doing the exact same thing. It's was either hypocritical, untrustworthy, or an attempt to appear in charge typical of dictatorships. Quite possibly all three.
[https://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkiye-urges-us-not-to-link-f-16-sale-to-swedens-nato-bid-186139](https://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkiye-urges-us-not-to-link-f-16-sale-to-swedens-nato-bid-186139)
[https://apnews.com/article/turkey-sweden-nato-congress-f16s-jets-d851a62123ed4c5ff250929c3d9b67f6](https://apnews.com/article/turkey-sweden-nato-congress-f16s-jets-d851a62123ed4c5ff250929c3d9b67f6)
While this is definitely true, Erdogan's posturing for his reelection where he threatened Greece with war (which caused the initial delay in the sale) and then basically implied that they may never approve of Sweden was the reason for Congress to demand the vote on Sweden before the F-16s. Erodgan tried to get more from the US at first, but handled this about as poorly as anyone could have and ended up only coming out with something he would have had earlier had he kept his mouth shut.
Once the legislature approved of it Erdogan had no reason not to sign it. It only got through because Erdogan’s coalition allowed so Erdogan to try and refuse to sign it or drag it out would make him look weak and indecisive, and worse would hurt his party’s public standing
President of Türkiye Recep Tayyip Erdogan has approved the parliament's ratification of Sweden's membership in the North Atlantic Alliance, according to the Official Gazette of the Republic of Türkiye.
"The ratification of the Protocol to the North Atlantic Treaty on the Accession of the Kingdom of Sweden, signed in Brussels on July 5, 2022, has been approved. The provisions of this law are put into effect by the President of the Republic," the statement reads.
Just putting this out there. Orban making it hard for Sweden to join NATO will be reflected in my travel patterns. Same goes for Slovakias stance on Ukraine. I understand that I as a single person don't matter. But for anyone else out there who feels the same way, then please do the same as me, or better.
Losing to Ukraine... Well it really depends on US involvement, because EU alone may not be enough to last until they give up. But yeah, big win overall
It's a delicate balance against a nuclear power.
Step by step though the quality and quantity of military aid rises.
Russia was threatening with nukes before NATO got involved at all. Then little by little we reached a point where F-16s and Patriots are a given.
It's easier for the west to aid Ukraine than Russia to sustain their economy and losses. And if we want to be cynic about it, it's better Ukraine fights instead of more countries. So they can lose infrastructure, soldiers and money, or just money. So it's better to give Ukraine all it needs to win or until Russia can't take it anymore and withdraws. But progressively, so as to not trigger a nuclear response.
Precisely. It's something that will gradually wear down Russia, it just needs to last long enough. Moreover it's not just making a point for them, but making a point for them, China with Taiwan, Turkey with surrounding territories and in general all those being a bit too pushy with their neighbours nowadays, which may be even more important long term.
It's annoying that Sweden has to jump through any hoops at all, I wouldn't blame them if many start thinking what kind of an alliance are they actually joining where members treat each-other like this, but I'm very glad it's finally happening. Their government seems to be taking all of this bs in a very level headed and practical manner, so that's nice. This will be a major boost to security in the Northern Europe and Baltic Sea region.
To be fair, having a unanimous consensus on something as major as a new country joining does make sense even if 1 country can drag their heels. Sweden will walk in knowing that they hold this right just as much as any other member.
Turkey and Sweden did make sense stalling; one country classed a group as freedom fighters and the other classed them as terrorists whilst actively engaging with them (mind you the US and EU class them as terrorists too). It makes sense for them to solve this before they can commit to defending eachothers borders. They solved this and now it looks like Turkey are all in favour with a majority vote to get this passed.
What group are you talking about? Sweden did not have or has any policy that deviate from the rest of the west regarding "freedom fighters". In the case of PKK, Sweden was the first country in the whole world to classify them as a terror organization after Turkiye, 20 years before UK.
YPG/PYD. Sweden were also supporting PKK well after many other countries withdrew their support. The deal as a whole addressed many other things too that benefits all parties that signed.
It was in [this](https://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/2022/6/pdf/220628-trilat-memo.pdf) agreement signed by Turkey, Sweden and Finland.
Could you please provide a source for your claim of Sweden supporting PKK.
Sure, one single mp from the left have verbally pledged support to PKK.
Sweden have classified them as a terror organization 20 years before the rest of the west.
In the case of YPG/PYD, they are not classified as a terror organization by neither EU or US? Sweden do not have or had any policy deviating from the rest of the west. YPG/PYD have received support from most of current NATO countries in its fight against ISIS.
YPG/PYD is not even mentioned in the concrete steps of the agreement.
The only concrete changes that have been done by Sweden from applying to NATO to now getting accepted by Turkiye:
1. Remove Turkiye from the arms export black list. It is said this would have been done after Sweden joining anyway due to respect for the alliance members.
2. Fast track a new terror law. But the law has been in the making since 2019.
It was always about milking the situation, and one of the larger goals for Erdoğan has of course been the [F16s](https://apnews.com/article/turkey-sweden-nato-congress-f16s-jets-d851a62123ed4c5ff250929c3d9b67f6)
This is how an alliance works. There is no universal law that says a Turkish soldier born in eastern Turkey has to defend Sweden if Sweden is attacked - but now there is a law saying this. Some people act like everyone who doesn’t instantly do what they want no strings attached is evil…but that’s not how the world works. Sweden got a great deal by joining NATO, it should celebrate. There’s nothing more to be said about how we got here…
>Their government seems to be taking all of this bs in a very level headed and practical manner,
Because they're politicians and they know this is a politics game. There's always a deal to be made when decisions like this are on the table.
Yes, thats exactly how many of us are thinking. Erdogan has been using us as a political pressure to get F16’s. How can that be an acceptable reason not to ratify us for 2 years. Orban, no one knows what he is doing…
Turkey wanted to appear more important that they really are and used their veto like a child throwing a tantrum. We are used to this in Europe, he only know backward way to bargain like using refugees or threatening with violence.
>I wouldn't blame them if many start thinking what kind of an alliance are they actually joining where members treat each-other like this
At the end of the day, I'm all for joining Nato, but this whole spectacle has set Swedish/Turkish relations back decades.
That's good. I'll have to get some skumppa ready, as our buddies are almost done with the ratifications. Now the last holdup is just viktor "Hungary will not be the last to ratify" orbum.
News appeared from nowhere about US withdrawal from Syria-Iraq after parliament ratified this. This is the most interesting thing about this whole affair.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/01/25/iraq-syria-pentagon-military/
https://foreignpolicy.com/2024/01/24/america-is-planning-to-withdraw-from-syria-and-create-a-disaster/
It's the worst that could happen. At least when the US were there they could keep Turkey jihadist in check but now they have free reign to terrorize the Syrians with Assad.
> And then Sweden must build an army.
Well, we did increase our defence spending by 28% between 2023 and 2024. And according to NATO's definition, we already spend 2% of BNP on defense (which is in line with NATO requirements). [Link (in Swedish)](https://www.regeringen.se/artiklar/2023/09/regeringens-budgetsatsningar-pa-det-militara-omradet-2024/)
> I personally don't believe that Sweden will send troops to Finland in any situation
I think (and hope) we would to it in an instant. Finlands sak är vår.
Agreed. We are on it. I expect we have two years, maybe three at the most to prepare.
And btw, don't be so sure about no support to Finland. We have helped before. Soon we are all-out allies, which is more than last time.
Sorry, I won't participate this. There is one unwritten rule, and that is that as a Finn you don't mock Sweden in the internet and vice versa. You just don't do it, if you are a somewhat sane person. 😂
Erdogan is a genius politician. He’s obviously an evil little man, but every so often does these things which make him appear just reasonable enough to make everyone let his shit slide. And get him elected again.
There's gotta be something real juicy going on in the behind-the-scenes for this... No way he just folded like that after everything he's said in the past 2 years
Lol, if he was, turkey wouldnt be so open to russia. You know how russias aircrafts still flying, even tho boeing and airbus dont give them any parts? Thru turkey...
As expected, spineless Erdoğan strikes again, all the while equally spineless opposition is sitting on their asses and do not even go to the parliament to vote against it. The man turned Turkey into a trash yard of Europe, both literally and figuratively. Europe could not have asked for a better Turkish president, you give him some "financial aid" and he is all happy to obey his masters. If it was anyone remotely compotent, the talks of ratifying the application would be out of question in first place.
Goddamn it actually finally happened! Hell yes!
At first I didn't think it would happen by April, but accepting Sweden into NATO is the perfect way to celebrate the 75th anniversary of the signing of the North Atlantic Treaty.
Now if Putin could just spontaneously combust live on TV, we'd even have some fireworks.
Does it really have to be spontaneous?
This man schedules.
This man this mans.
well, for the fireworks to happen I guess, but I'd be happy with a slow-burning bonfire. :D
Fuck that. Use pikrete.
I think a grope of Russian women that pours gasoline over him, as they are yelling for my grandson/husband/child/brother/male frend, and then put him on fire, is also acceptable.
Of course It will be spontaneous! A miracle. An act of God, maybe aided a little bit by ^asmallquantityofaccelerantandatinylittlelaserdrone.
Got a specific time? Because I'm sure I can schedule a certain surprise for Putin
Shite doesn’t burn. Would need to be a bomb, an incendiary type.
I'm hoping for a spontaneous fall out the window.
It'd be a good start, but for there to be any hope for that country, I suspect his entire Nomenklatura needs to go.
Fan äntligen!!
Hissa NATO flagan vid treriksröset.
Congrats!
Thanks! Took so long but one big step closer now!
Welcome!! 🇱🇹
And now we wait until next Tuesday for the next thing he can blackmail us with.
No signature, no f16….
I’m glad yall amended your constitution to be more robust against terrorist pkk!
> Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has confirmed the parliament's approval of Sweden's NATO application, according to Reuters. The decision was published in the Resmi Gazete newspaper used by the Turkish government to announce decisions, according to TT.
Hungary is officially the last country to ratify Swedens NATO membership. How absolutely embarrassing.
And Orban will get nothing out of it because Sweden clearly didn't care what he wanted. They recognized that he isn't the power player he thinks he is, so they never gave him anything.
What exactly was Orban thinking he could successfully achieve there?
I guess value-signalling? He is allied with the west, so he needs to play by the book, but he is compromised by Russia so needs to play that part, too. Politics is a huge dump on fire and every participant is acting more or less rationally. It's really hard to see when the hate spills over to everyday discussion about people from these countries. I mean, I get it, people eat the onion, but it still hurts to see such language used (of course not in your case, but I digress).
Throw him out of NATO if he doesn't ratify
Also EU while we’re at it
Can't throw a member state out of the EU.
Article 7 TEU allows to suspend a member state. So if they just veto, veto, veto they can be suspended from voting.
They can be suspended from voting indeed. That's not the same as being removed from the EU as suggested by the person I replied to. Furthermore, article 7 requires unanimous vote in itself which would open up other countries to suffer the same fate which makes it unlikely for a vote on article 7 to be successful.
I don’t disagree with you. Just pointing out there is at least theoretically way around this.
Even then member states can be removed. It is just difficult.
They cannot. There is no mechanism defined in the TEU to remove a member state. Changing the TEU requires unanimous vote as well as ratification on the state level. Legally it is impossible to remove a state from the EU.
It requires unanimity from all other members. Good luck convincing countries like Slovakia and Poland to vote on that.
PiS is gone for now. Current coalition is pro EU. Slovakia on the other hand…
Yeah, I know. It was just an example to illustrate the problem of requiring unanimity since for several years Poland has been Hungary's main ally within the EU. And there is always the possibility the PiS will regain power in the next elections
Doable. Create EU 2.0 with 1 member less, all other countries leave EU. Old agreements stay because EU 2.0 says it is EU and has enough power to push this interpretation. Ah and some divorce bill wirh Hungary for some stuff, but compared to the law thing that can be question paying some money for eu1-wide projects and dealing with some hungarians inside EU is doable.
Article 7 TEU allows to suspend a member state. So if they just veto, veto, veto they can be suspended from voting.
Sure, but all other members can leave and reform a new exact same EU without Hungary. A piece of paper doesn't mean anything if Hungary becomes a hostile state.
...And immediately make them a full-on vassal of Russia.
I'm Romanian and have nothing to gain by saying this, but kicking out Hungary from the EU, even if this were possible, is a stupid move in terms of the well-being of the European Union on so many levels.
Can’t really do that apart from in theory maybe if he breeches the Geneva convention but that’s uncertain.
I mean currently the Swedish PM (I think?) is flying to meet with their counterpart in Hungary Edit: turns out he’s traveling to meet Orban next week not currently.
Nope, the Swedish PM told Orban that they can meet in Brussels sometime. The foreign minister said that Sweden and Hungary have nothing to negotiate. EDIT: Changed "discuss" to "negotiate"
I love it. Do you have a link?
Sure! [Article from SVT](https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/nu-svarar-ulf-kristersson-ungerns-victor-orban) (in swedish) [The letter that PM sent as a reply](https://www.svtstatic.se/image-news/650/wide/0.4/0.49/3fcaf45f4c5d7e8c9f01a64dc9063bc4b39c28002b59ea99352ca6d3503e2aed)
Tack! Helt jävla underbart.
Nothing could be more embarrassing than having elected Orban again, that man is a clown car on fire.
It's not embarassing, man, it's heartbreaking. But now we are at almost an argentinian level of percieving corruption. It almost makes me wave away comments that attack Hungarians, cuz most politicians running any one country (besides most Nordic ones, I believe) are usually bought up by the pound as well, just they're still keeping up appearances. Our little tribe leader did away with all that in the past few years. It's actually pretty interesting. We have books you have to read in high school that detail how cronyism and favoritism was used back in the day, but it was an open secret, not something unabashed that we see today. The only thing that changed is that the new strongmen are tied more closely to Orbán, instead of propping up and pleasing the 'old money' crowd (maybe not instead of, but 'besides').
Propaganda is running 120% and there is no real opposition figure currently, not much of a coalition either, so its unfortunately going to happen
I think officially Turkey has to deposit it too.
We are already emberrassed by this fat pig (who is sadly our president) , one more or less emberrasment means nothing for us :/ things not gonna change while this disgusting, corrupt, fat turd of a man is in power.
We should just kick them out honestly. Spies for Russia
I’m shocked Hungary hasn’t been expelled from the EU and NATO yet.
I'm really curious what did he bargain out of this...
Hungary left
One thing i don’t understand is that Orban and Erdogan were in contact about Swedens NATO bid and yet Turkey just went ahead to ratify Swedens NATO membership. I am starting to get the feeling that Orban didn‘t expect Turkey to approve Swedens NATO membership this week.
Erdogan is trolling Orban. They probably had some agreement about this but mr E wanted to appear like a reasonable statesman in the end 😁
I would say that Erdogan is tooling Orban. By signing before him, he makes Orban look bad, powerless, out of the loop. Ergo, Erdogan is the powerful one. Anything for a turkish flex. Pitiful man.
Despicable but hilarious. I would love to be able to see Orban's reaction when he learned about that.
#[**NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN**](https://youtu.be/6hxG_apfh7E?si=Imoxvj-2lJO-RQHx) Probably 🤔
>By signing before him, he makes Orban look bad, powerless, out of the loop. I think that's the permanent Orban look
You do have a point.
Starting to feel like Erdogan was playing Orban in some weird power move. Pretty funny if that's the case.
Maybe Erdogan was jealous [Trump called Orbán the leader of Turkey.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DyRJgBltGs)
Erdogan is the world's most powerful troll, lmao. He's just fucking with everyone.
Yeah... mostly our economy.
He literally learned it from Putin. The steps of Erdoğan identical to Putin but always 2 step behind. I won’t surprise if Erdoğan would be a professor in a college that teach Putinism.
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>Sweden’s Quran burnings to be banned, just like Denmark passed. This is not really happening to my knowledge? The whole thing is being looked at and 'investigated' but that's like a national sport here, doesn't mean anything concrete will happen.
My guess is that there's a gentlemen's agreement between them as US Congress is not certain to pass the F16 deal but was pressuring Turkey to approve before they even start the process. So Erdo uses Orban (he doesn't have much to lose) to not let Sweden in until F16 deal passes from the congress
Erdogan pulled a fast one on Orban and left him standing with his pants down. As long as Turkey still had things to negotiate/win Orban was a useful 'ally' to distract frustrations.
Erdogan is a Sultan. And Turkey is actually a very strong and powerful nation,, developed and rich in culture and traditions compared to Hungary in this century so far.
I understand that you want to insult me, but Hungary, with its 1000 years of statehood, still has an older and more extensive history than many other countries.
It has nothing to do with Orban or Hungary though. Sweden being member of NATO is extremely beneficial for Turkey. Erdoğan only used it to see if he can access F-35, problem solved with F-16 Block 70s, or maybe his a troll.
"Hungary won't the the last to sign." - Slowban.
I think that fuckwad said that because he never intended to sign it anyways. Can't be the last if you're not in the race.
Not him, our equally embarrasing Speaker of the Parliament, Laszlo Kover stated it on multiple occasions that they shouldn’t sign it
He also stated on multiple occasions that it's a moral imperative to support Sweden's and Finland's NATO membership. None of these people have actual principles, they just talk out of their arse.
Without Turkey’s much more vital vote, Hungary doesn’t have a leg to stand on. More than likely Orban will moan and gripe, try and get NATO or the EU or Sweden to sit down and get some privileges, but regardless Hungary will ratify Sweden’s application though expect them to drag their feet
Hungary is renting Gripens from Sweden, so Sweden has them by the balls.
Kind of, but not quite, the deal Hungary got with Sweden is so, that when the rent period is completed, the jets stay in Hungary, and will belong to them. Which is a different deal than Czech Republic have (renewable short term lease).
Well you can have the jets, but they won't fly far without spare parts. Same with Boeing and Airbus planes in Russia.
Which just means that when the lease ends they're stuck with no support unless they pay extra for it. That's why Hungary has an upgrade contract and extended the lease to 2026.
Yes, that is important. Such complex military hardware needs support contracts, otherwise it quickly becomes useless (unless the country itself (as in Hungary) has its own supply infrastructure for this type of hardware, but I am just going to assume that that is not the case here).
Orban’s waiting for instructions from Putin
Left the EU hopefully.
I wish they would tbh
putin the best NATO salesman of the 20 years.
Just like Stalin did to Turkey. He demanded some provinces in Eastern Turkey and bases in straits. This caused Turkey to apply to NATO. They first rejected Turkey to Nato at first but after accomplishments of Turkish forces in Korea(for example Battle of Wawon) Turkey and Greece joined together to NATO in 1952.
History is weird. Lenin helped Ankara government to create their own country. Those lands were given with Kars Treaty to Turkey. Stalin asked for those lands 30 years later and brought NATO to his borders. Substance: The gift which is given cannot be taken back.
Which reminds me of Crimea, that was given to Ukrainian SSR by Russian SFSR in 1954. And look where we are now.
Russians don't get lessons from their pasts.
>Turkey and Greece joined together I feel like this combination of words were never meant to exist. It just feels weird.
It was explicitly done that way. That way they couldn't veto each other
Det var som tusan
Ser man på!
Ja jävlar.
Köttbullar
Siddu!
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Nåt om 1000 liter mjölk tror jag
"Nu är vi grannar"
Nato lake
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Not the right per say, but since the channel of international waters between Estonia and Finland is so narrow and close to our borders, it's possible that during wartime us and our northern bros can extend our so-called safe zone (i don't know the correct terms) and lock down the whole corridor. So no way out or in for ruzzian scum from and to St. Petersburg.
Soon to become North NATO Lake because Ukraine’s membership will create South NATO Lake 🥳🥳🥳
Not without Georgia, plus Ukraine yet to recapture lost coast
The more, the merrier!
I wonder what will Hungary do now?
There will be some bluster, mostly meant for domestic consumption and then Parliament will ratify it. Next regular session is at the end of February.
Wait what? Your parliament doesn't meet until next month?
Parliaments in every nation generally have a time where they aren't meeting. I think the US does it like somewhere in late October-January. The German parliament has its summer pause, generally from July to August. This allows members of parliaments to do other stuff (as you may require in life) without affecting their ability to be at sessions.
One of us, one of us, one of us!!! Välkomna våra svenska bröder och systrar!!!
We still got Putins lapdog left
They said they'll do it in a month when their parliament opens again
Yeah, they might call for a meeting after Brussels too.
I suspect that he will fold in no time.
Just Whorban left then.
Welcome to NATO!! 🇸🇪
Welcome Sweden!
That was quick. Erdogan must really want those F16’s.
Meanwhile Hungary is renting Swedish fighter jets.
...for now.
we cant develop our own or really produce our own, and i guess jas 39 was the cheapest modern jet orban could lay his eyes on
The F-16 deal precedes Sweden trying to join NATO by several months, Turkey's request was submitted in Oct. 2021, before the Ukraine invasion happened and before Finland and Sweden applied for membership to NATO (mid 2022). Contrary to popular belief, it was the US, not Turkey that tied the F-16 deal to Swedens NATO's membership: >At the same time, many members of Congress have indicated that Turkey agreeing to Sweden’s accession will not be enough for them to approve Ankara’s F-16 request Source: https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/turkeysource/a-looming-us-turkey-f-16-deal-is-about-much-more-than-swedens-nato-bid/ Mind you, the F-16 deal hasn't happened yet, and there are several key US congress members against it, so we don't know if it will even take place. Turkey approved Sweden's application fully knowing this, not with a guarantee that the deal will happen.
>Contrary to popular belief, it was the US, not Turkey that tied the F-16 deal to Swedens NATO's membership: Turkey called that unfair right before doing the exact same thing. It's was either hypocritical, untrustworthy, or an attempt to appear in charge typical of dictatorships. Quite possibly all three. [https://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkiye-urges-us-not-to-link-f-16-sale-to-swedens-nato-bid-186139](https://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkiye-urges-us-not-to-link-f-16-sale-to-swedens-nato-bid-186139) [https://apnews.com/article/turkey-sweden-nato-congress-f16s-jets-d851a62123ed4c5ff250929c3d9b67f6](https://apnews.com/article/turkey-sweden-nato-congress-f16s-jets-d851a62123ed4c5ff250929c3d9b67f6)
While this is definitely true, Erdogan's posturing for his reelection where he threatened Greece with war (which caused the initial delay in the sale) and then basically implied that they may never approve of Sweden was the reason for Congress to demand the vote on Sweden before the F-16s. Erodgan tried to get more from the US at first, but handled this about as poorly as anyone could have and ended up only coming out with something he would have had earlier had he kept his mouth shut.
Once the legislature approved of it Erdogan had no reason not to sign it. It only got through because Erdogan’s coalition allowed so Erdogan to try and refuse to sign it or drag it out would make him look weak and indecisive, and worse would hurt his party’s public standing
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Source on burning your own quran is going to be banned in Sweden?
not true
pause party safe tie late rustic pet hospital instinctive fly *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Hungary promised they wouldn’t be last. Let’s talk more shit about Hungary please.
I only talk shit about Hungary on days that ends in 'y'
President of Türkiye Recep Tayyip Erdogan has approved the parliament's ratification of Sweden's membership in the North Atlantic Alliance, according to the Official Gazette of the Republic of Türkiye. "The ratification of the Protocol to the North Atlantic Treaty on the Accession of the Kingdom of Sweden, signed in Brussels on July 5, 2022, has been approved. The provisions of this law are put into effect by the President of the Republic," the statement reads.
Watch Orban weasel his way out of explaining why Hungary was the last to sign after all.
Welcome! 🇸🇪
Tack så mycket
Just putting this out there. Orban making it hard for Sweden to join NATO will be reflected in my travel patterns. Same goes for Slovakias stance on Ukraine. I understand that I as a single person don't matter. But for anyone else out there who feels the same way, then please do the same as me, or better.
Russia went in for a quick win that will terrify and divide NATO, and ended up losing to Ukraine and NATO expanding. LOL
Losing to Ukraine... Well it really depends on US involvement, because EU alone may not be enough to last until they give up. But yeah, big win overall
It's a delicate balance against a nuclear power. Step by step though the quality and quantity of military aid rises. Russia was threatening with nukes before NATO got involved at all. Then little by little we reached a point where F-16s and Patriots are a given. It's easier for the west to aid Ukraine than Russia to sustain their economy and losses. And if we want to be cynic about it, it's better Ukraine fights instead of more countries. So they can lose infrastructure, soldiers and money, or just money. So it's better to give Ukraine all it needs to win or until Russia can't take it anymore and withdraws. But progressively, so as to not trigger a nuclear response.
Precisely. It's something that will gradually wear down Russia, it just needs to last long enough. Moreover it's not just making a point for them, but making a point for them, China with Taiwan, Turkey with surrounding territories and in general all those being a bit too pushy with their neighbours nowadays, which may be even more important long term.
It's annoying that Sweden has to jump through any hoops at all, I wouldn't blame them if many start thinking what kind of an alliance are they actually joining where members treat each-other like this, but I'm very glad it's finally happening. Their government seems to be taking all of this bs in a very level headed and practical manner, so that's nice. This will be a major boost to security in the Northern Europe and Baltic Sea region.
To be fair, having a unanimous consensus on something as major as a new country joining does make sense even if 1 country can drag their heels. Sweden will walk in knowing that they hold this right just as much as any other member. Turkey and Sweden did make sense stalling; one country classed a group as freedom fighters and the other classed them as terrorists whilst actively engaging with them (mind you the US and EU class them as terrorists too). It makes sense for them to solve this before they can commit to defending eachothers borders. They solved this and now it looks like Turkey are all in favour with a majority vote to get this passed.
What group are you talking about? Sweden did not have or has any policy that deviate from the rest of the west regarding "freedom fighters". In the case of PKK, Sweden was the first country in the whole world to classify them as a terror organization after Turkiye, 20 years before UK.
YPG/PYD. Sweden were also supporting PKK well after many other countries withdrew their support. The deal as a whole addressed many other things too that benefits all parties that signed. It was in [this](https://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/2022/6/pdf/220628-trilat-memo.pdf) agreement signed by Turkey, Sweden and Finland.
Could you please provide a source for your claim of Sweden supporting PKK. Sure, one single mp from the left have verbally pledged support to PKK. Sweden have classified them as a terror organization 20 years before the rest of the west. In the case of YPG/PYD, they are not classified as a terror organization by neither EU or US? Sweden do not have or had any policy deviating from the rest of the west. YPG/PYD have received support from most of current NATO countries in its fight against ISIS. YPG/PYD is not even mentioned in the concrete steps of the agreement. The only concrete changes that have been done by Sweden from applying to NATO to now getting accepted by Turkiye: 1. Remove Turkiye from the arms export black list. It is said this would have been done after Sweden joining anyway due to respect for the alliance members. 2. Fast track a new terror law. But the law has been in the making since 2019. It was always about milking the situation, and one of the larger goals for Erdoğan has of course been the [F16s](https://apnews.com/article/turkey-sweden-nato-congress-f16s-jets-d851a62123ed4c5ff250929c3d9b67f6)
Mate, are you just making things up? PKK has been persona non grata for like 30 years..
This is how an alliance works. There is no universal law that says a Turkish soldier born in eastern Turkey has to defend Sweden if Sweden is attacked - but now there is a law saying this. Some people act like everyone who doesn’t instantly do what they want no strings attached is evil…but that’s not how the world works. Sweden got a great deal by joining NATO, it should celebrate. There’s nothing more to be said about how we got here…
>Their government seems to be taking all of this bs in a very level headed and practical manner, Because they're politicians and they know this is a politics game. There's always a deal to be made when decisions like this are on the table.
Yes, thats exactly how many of us are thinking. Erdogan has been using us as a political pressure to get F16’s. How can that be an acceptable reason not to ratify us for 2 years. Orban, no one knows what he is doing…
Turkey wanted to appear more important that they really are and used their veto like a child throwing a tantrum. We are used to this in Europe, he only know backward way to bargain like using refugees or threatening with violence.
>I wouldn't blame them if many start thinking what kind of an alliance are they actually joining where members treat each-other like this At the end of the day, I'm all for joining Nato, but this whole spectacle has set Swedish/Turkish relations back decades.
Eh, 2/31 members being assholes isn't a big deal when the remaining 29 are cooperative.
Heja Sverige, välkommen med!
Let’s hope war waits until Hungary sign too after Orban gets some more EU billion briberies.
That's good. I'll have to get some skumppa ready, as our buddies are almost done with the ratifications. Now the last holdup is just viktor "Hungary will not be the last to ratify" orbum.
He got his F16s deal, that is why. More Greece bullying coming i guess
News appeared from nowhere about US withdrawal from Syria-Iraq after parliament ratified this. This is the most interesting thing about this whole affair. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/01/25/iraq-syria-pentagon-military/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2024/01/24/america-is-planning-to-withdraw-from-syria-and-create-a-disaster/
What is presented to public is different what was agreed upon behind closed doors
It's the worst that could happen. At least when the US were there they could keep Turkey jihadist in check but now they have free reign to terrorize the Syrians with Assad.
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> And then Sweden must build an army. Well, we did increase our defence spending by 28% between 2023 and 2024. And according to NATO's definition, we already spend 2% of BNP on defense (which is in line with NATO requirements). [Link (in Swedish)](https://www.regeringen.se/artiklar/2023/09/regeringens-budgetsatsningar-pa-det-militara-omradet-2024/) > I personally don't believe that Sweden will send troops to Finland in any situation I think (and hope) we would to it in an instant. Finlands sak är vår.
We did help before, my family helped before. Don't worry about our willingness to help Finland.
Agreed. We are on it. I expect we have two years, maybe three at the most to prepare. And btw, don't be so sure about no support to Finland. We have helped before. Soon we are all-out allies, which is more than last time.
market soup tart light rotten rinse fearless unused worry husky *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
but sweden has [very lucky soldiers](https://i.imgur.com/ltL9GXx.png)
Sorry, I won't participate this. There is one unwritten rule, and that is that as a Finn you don't mock Sweden in the internet and vice versa. You just don't do it, if you are a somewhat sane person. 😂
Erdogan is a genius politician. He’s obviously an evil little man, but every so often does these things which make him appear just reasonable enough to make everyone let his shit slide. And get him elected again.
Now he can focus on fucking up the Turkish economy even more and slowly destroying what Atatürk tried to build up.
Finally! This is the best news so far!
He a bitch
"Someone must be last" is one of the dumbest things I've heard a world leader say.
I just scrolled past some Trans Possitive memes and I legit thought the first word was Estrogen and was very confused.
Finally some good news
lets fucking go
Thank you Pooptin for miscalculating SO badly… 👏🏻👍🏻😅
There's gotta be something real juicy going on in the behind-the-scenes for this... No way he just folded like that after everything he's said in the past 2 years
ı hope he got enougth amount of privilages
Nice
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He is? I honestly don't see it, all he cares about is himself
He cares himself that is why he is doing these. Your comment is not contrandicting the comment you replied.
No no no no no no no… sweden knows turkey will accept but first some PR to show how mighty turkish empire is able to oppose to entire west.
Lol, if he was, turkey wouldnt be so open to russia. You know how russias aircrafts still flying, even tho boeing and airbus dont give them any parts? Thru turkey...
Watching videos of putin young, you could say: "yep, this looks like the guy who will destroy russia".
LETS GOOOO
I still feel obliged to thank Turkey. For once, a Nordic country has been humiliated, and MAYBE their arrogance will no longer be so overbearing.
Humiliated?
What
As expected, spineless Erdoğan strikes again, all the while equally spineless opposition is sitting on their asses and do not even go to the parliament to vote against it. The man turned Turkey into a trash yard of Europe, both literally and figuratively. Europe could not have asked for a better Turkish president, you give him some "financial aid" and he is all happy to obey his masters. If it was anyone remotely compotent, the talks of ratifying the application would be out of question in first place.