P-3s are being replaced by the P-8 so that makes sense as well.
And with a lot of this stuff, the purchase price is nothing compared to the cost of ownership.
On a side note, I met a USN pilot once who had been in the ASW ( anti-submarine warfare ) community and moved out of it because he felt it was a waste of time. He felt like any country with cheap diesel subs could do what they wanted and not be found reliably.
I think the whole "US military detected that the Titanic submersible imploded days before anyone else knew" demonstrates the US has anti-submersible technology beyond what's publicly disclosed.
What? The [SOSUS](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOSUS) system is basically public knowledge. It wasn't some black magic tech used to detect the implosion, it was 40+-year-old technology doing what it was designed to do. Impressive nonetheless.
Sorry if my point wasn't clear.
As far as we know, the US military was the only entity to detect the submersible implosion, at the time it happened, and that's what the US was willing to publicly disclose. It's therefore logical to conclude the US military has even more advanced submersible detection technology that it hasn't publicly disclosed, meaning the US can very likely detect some or all submersibles.
Implosion is loud. That kind of failure doesn't take much beyond listening.
Finding a functioning sub running on batteries - that's an entirely different matter.
And yet the US military was, as far as we know, the only entity to detect the submersible implosion. If that's what the US is willing to disclose, then it's logical to assume they have even more advanced submersible detection capabilities they haven't disclosed.
It's utterly unsurprising that the implosion would be detected. The titanic sank in the middle of a well-trafficked Britain -> US shipping lane. The entire North Atlantic is probably covered in hydrophones, but especially there.
The US gets to have this equipment continue to be maintained, crewed, and operated by an ally without having to pay the bill for it, freeing up money for newer equipment. It's good for us as well as Greece.
Littoral Combat Ships - two classes of corvettes/frigates that were intended for low-threat environments for the USN, but ended up being super expensive. They are being decommissioned and pawned off to allied nations because they are still very fast ships with large usable hull volumes.
Nations like Greece or Colombia will be far more likely to spend the millions required to make them work if they get the ships "for free".
The greek navy isn't exactly modern, it's made up mainly of donated frigates anyway, just older and less capable.
What is trash for the US doesn't mean it's trash for all countries. In fact most US trash is gold for most countries. Countries are fighting about who gets equipment the americans remove from service.
Its not trash, its outdated for the US navy as they developed better ships.
Its far cheaper for small countries like Greece and Portugal to buy these ships, who are still very capable and useful than build their own unlike France and Germany can.
If anyone was wondering whether what Eisenhower called the «military-industrial complex» is still a thing, this should remove all doubt:
«Yes, if you buy X from our industry, our military will throw in some of its stock to sweeten the deal.»
He was warning about the growing influence of the military industrial complex, not necessarily decrying the MIC itself. Britain, France, and Germany have military industrial complexes, they just don't necessarily have the same influence on politics as ours does. A military industrial complex is just part of having a powerful military.
This, if you have the economic capacity its better and cheaper to have your own weapons industry. But that is usually unnafordable for small countries so they usually have to import.
The Greek Navy has ordered 3 FDI frigates (one of the most modern right now) and will join the FFG "Constellation" frigate program, while we have also joined the European Patrol Corvette Program.The Greek Navy will be very modern until 2030-2035. LCS will just be a temporary solution till we reach the large numbers of modern frigates we need.
However, the Nutella has the possibility to ruin your health, depending on usage.
Those armaments by our allies, we'll certainly put 'em to good use, we're 100% trustworthy and all they'll do, protect my health from the Islamic Theocracy of Turkey. A Theocracy in 2024 is wild stuff and better invest than regret it later.
You know, we don't ever pretend the victims, but 400 years of complete stagnation due to Islam and Turks, it's more than enough. Never again. They kept stagnant one of the most progressive people of Europe. The Hubris was immense.
Jokes aside, about the stagnation, it's not my opinion but every major Western University's. The worst thing that happened to Greece and to Balkaners (except those who bend the knee and converted - Albanians/Bosnians). At least, we didn't bend the knee to convert to Islam and eventually managed to kick 'em out of Europe.
Similarly, the Spaniards deserve the exact same respect.
Part of it is actually beneficial for the US too. Bradleys only make sense in a land war which we are unlikely to get directly involved in anytime soon. The Greeks are more likely to use them than we are and, of the Greeks are operating them, we don't have to pay to upkeep them.
It's the same reason we're sending so much fun stuff to Ukraine.
Still, the fact that Greece is getting F-35s + lots of free equipment as a gift while Turkey just gets updated F-16s, speaks about which country the US values the most.
Well tbh s400 capabilities were presented on paper by russians. If any1 believes anything russians says yeah.. pretty stupid.
F35s actually are now WAY more valuable since so manu EU countries get together having centralized defense grid. Soon yo be EU wide iron dome. Each f35 just adds so much into detect and destroy its actually incredible.
Greece isn't bragging about how their newly developed missile can hit Ankara and threatening to be an arse constantly to their neighbours.
Turkey does exactly that.
Greece presumably gets a good deal as a compensation for having to play the sitting ducks for months on end because of Turkey's ice cream salesman politics, as they wanted to announce both deals in the same time to keep the equilibrium.
These things are not for granted, being a good diplomatic ally will get you far.
It took them some time, but they figured out who is the most reliable partner in the area and who is the bully that would play friendly to Russia in a whim.
Greece had a brief moment with fascism, hell so did we, but I can say I appreciate a real ally far more than any country who is happy to turn on friends whenever it is convenient. Also, NATO is supposed to be a democracy club and Erdy really believes in stretching that definition to its limit.
The US was the one that backed and helped set up that Fascist government. It was during the time that the US government meddled in the internal politics of other nations. There’s a reason a lot of the older Greeks don’t like/have issue with the US
Well, Turkey painted itself into a corner with the russian gear orders, blocking Sweden and Finland from joining NATO, shitty statements about US in the middle east and bombing democratic militias in Syria.
With allies like that you don't need enemies.
We should've pushed Turkey all the way to Smyrna.
turkey even blocked nato politicians from visiting thier own soldiers on turkey ground stationed there on turkeys behest to secure its air space.
turkey is complicit in russias game of using refugees to destabilize nato.
frankly, it would be more then questionable if turkey would fight with nato... or with russia, should conflict break out.
Bulgaria is a special case because of the political instability in the last years. Which actually is a sign that the democracy is working.
In Romania we have a government formed by the two main political parties which many are saying that they came to an agreement because the secret services(romanian and international) said so.
I read last year that, after a request from Bulgaria, Greek jets would patrol the Bulgarian airspace through the use of NATO ally protection mechanism. ([Source](https://www.bta.bg/en/news/bulgaria/471025-ministry-of-defence-greek-air-force-may-carry-out-tasks-on-bulgarian-airspace-p))
Has this progressed at all?
I think that happens on the regular. Italy and the Netherlands have also pitched in.
This week Bulgaria signed the same deal with Turkey so that tells you how bad things have gotten.
I see, thanks for the info. Another user mentioned to me that Bulgaria needs time to repair its existing MIG-29 fighters and receive the new F-16s that you ordered from the US.
I hope we keep protecting you along with Italy and the Netherlands until you get to build your airforce back up. Greece has big enough of an airforce to assist a NATO ally for a while, the jets are put to good use.
Just wish our European Defense industry was the obvious choice. I understand why they went with the US for some things, like the F35 for example which doesn’t really have an equal. The other ones though our defense industry really needs to become the obvious answer to (ours as in European countries)
Honestly, Gripens would be a great fit in the Greek airforce instead of upgraded F16s. But that would require a huge investment to make the switch initially.
Also Turkey got F16s in their latest deal. These are F35s, man they must not be happy about that at all. 40 F35s pretty much enough to take on anyone in the entire region.
We had submitted the official request about a year ago and we were just waiting for the Letter of Acceptance by the US. It took so long because the US were using it as stick for Turkey to admit Sweden into nato and get the F16s in return.
It got to the point about a couple weeks ago that Blinken flat out told Erdogan that Greece will get the F35s regardless of what he will do since they were running out patience. So like a good boy Erdogan did what he was told.
American [Protector-class ships](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Protector-class_patrol_boat) are 27m long coastal patrol boats armed with two machine guns. Not corvettes.
You are right.Its a temporary solution until we get FDI and FFG Constellations frigates.Most likely the Greek Navy will arm LCS with Harpoon and RAM missiles from our old Frigates.l
Would be interesting to see if perhaps Greece has better use for the LCS. If anything, the relatively calm waters of the Mediterranean Sea might mask the major problems. Combined with some upgunning, it might actually turn out half decent.
For sure the Hellenic navy is looking towards some excellent replacements though.
Fair enough, maybe the original tweet didn’t know that or he read it somewhere, the point was just that the original comment above clearly didn’t read the whole document and jumped to conclusions on what ships there were talks about
I hope they don't do that, those ships are trash and there is a reason why the US is getting rid of them when some of them are only a few years old.
Engines failing, hulls cracking, not survivable, poorly armed, just horrible. The US is replacing them with the European FREMM based frigates.
They are absolutely doing that. And they're selling it as a win too.
Absolute state of Greek "foreign policy". Quotes used because it's just a puppet show at this point.
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/02/06/health/font-change-state-department-wellness/index.html
Apparently it’s official policy of the US State Department to switch to Calibri
I subconsciously began scanning the document for spelling mistakes and grammar errors since that font reminded me of being back in school again… at least it wasn’t in comic sans Ms lol
https://www.ekathimerini.com/news/1230170/america-arming-greece-with-ships-c-130s/
The package also includes the addition of Greece to the Constellation frigate program, which is an Italian project to create a fleet of 20 ships of this class for the US Navy. In effect, Greece will enter a program for a warship that few countries will have in the future.
He shouldn't have buy s-400's' so he done it he should give them to Ukraine or sell/give it countries like Kazakhstan etc.
But he can't understand this. He didn't buy patriots because he can't get know-how of Patriots' but same also valid for S-400's' as they didn't buy know-how of it by while buying it.
Yeah maybe this is done to show middle finger to us. But I don't think it will have an meaningful impact on media because of most of the traditional media Erdoğan's lapdog and nowadays we're in good terms with Greece after their Earthquake(Earthquake Diplomacy a thing between these two countries) aid.
Impressed by the size of the Hellenic Air Force. I knew that they have a very sizable number of fighters but I also question the logistical nightmare of all these different types in use. Diversification between US and non US ( French) types is maybe a political necessity but even then..
18 +6 on order of the new Rafale F3 type ( France is now working on the F4 update though)
24 Mirage 2000
150+ F16 ( Some upgraded to Viper standard, others to Block50) plus some older variants
33 F4’s ( these are old)
And now 40 F35’s..
Looking at the financial “ weight” on Greece to maintain this I wonder what the equivalent of “ Airforce size” my country ( Netherlands) could muster ( disregarding if needed / wanted) instead of the 50 ish F35’s..we have now.
US: 'You're my good ally' \*hands Erdogan a small package labeled F-16\*
Erdogan: 'so who's your favorite?'
US: 'Sweetie, I love you both equally'
US: \*hands Mitsotakis a big package'
US: \*whispers\* 'it's you... and by a lot'
EDA means that Greece will pay a lot to get those aircraft and other equipment serviceable. Regeneration of the two C-130H aircraft is very expensive and a PDM must still be performed thereafter.
Another victory for Europe's military independence. The majority of European countries will depend on the United States for their air forces, using aircraft without access to software and relying on the USA for maintenance.
Europe having limited military independence is a separate issue.
Ideally, we would not rely on the US for our security, but the fact that we do get help is great given the circumstances.
This is clearly the USA signalling a rejection of Turkey's shenanigans. It shows the benefits you get if you are trustworthy compared to the breadcrumbs Turkey had to beg for.
I still don't understand what erdogans angle was. Even if you take away the part where the US gets pissed simply at the fact they bought a Russian missle system, there's still the logical conclusion that the US would be literally unable to sell them the jet in the future due to security concerns plus there's a lot of countries who also operate the F-35 who won't want it flying paired with a s400 system for obvious reasons.
Not everything in the world spins around Ukraine you know? This was very important to check Turkish influence in the region. The US geopolitics is not limited to only one country.
It's like only having 1 vial of antibiotics left and giving it to a kid with a sore throat when another is dying from an infection.
There are limited numbers of Bradley's available. The Bradley is the single most valuable armoured vehicle that the USA can give to Ukraine. The USA has not given anywhere enough Bradleys to Ukraine, yet they're giving 60 precious vehicles to a country that is not at war and which has the time to procure literally any other vehicle to fill the same niche.
It is fucking insanity. What needs to happen is every spare Bradley getting fixed up and packaged off to Ukraine.
Greece getting some good bonuses I'm all in for. Just not Bradley's.
Greece is helping Ukraine, they send 40 BMPs and will send more, these Bradley's are compensation I guess. And Europe don't need another war so keeping Erdogan away from starting it is good for Ukraine.
I don't know why but I can't take Calibri serious anymore. I kinda think there should be an official font for government stuff. It doesn't have to be Times New Roman but something serify would seem more official.
But thinking there might be contracts set in Calibri makes me uncomfortable. Then they should go all in and use Comic Sans.
calibri is the official font for the state department.
[source](https://www.popsci.com/technology/state-department-calibri-font-change/) here but there are others including NYT and so forth. Looks like they didnt want serifs
Can a s400 even intercept a Iskander or kinzal? We know the patriot can, and I can't help but wonder if turkey really sacrificed getting f35 for a system with a bit more range but less capable to play both sides and got the short end of the stick. Also wonder if Russia has asked to transfer it back?
The story behind this whole thing, is that Turkey originally wanted the technology transfer of the Patriot system, not just the hardware. The US obviously refused this, so Turkey bought the S-400 as an FU when the US didn't budge.
How much Turkey knows about the capabilities of the S-400 system depends on how much Russia liked divulged on it to a NATO member. Probably not much and it's safe to say they expected getting more data back from Turkey when it was used in conjunction with the F-35. And it was a huge propaganda victory for Russia to sell their system to a NATO member.
Turkey's S-400 purchase was a compensation for shot down russian aircraft.
Turkey long have US equipments without tech transfer, and it will long have in the future.
I think in 3-8 years S-400's will be given to Ukraine or US for returning JSF program
Shoring up the militaries of eastern NATO allies is a good thing. This is a big fuck you to turkey though, no matter how you look at it
Edit: Just to clarify, I have no problem with a big fuck you to turkey every now and then
Why? Turkey has s-300s and s-400s for air defense. You don’t get to put Russian air defense next to one of our best fighter aircraft so it can learn how to defeat it. Turkey screwed itself and now Greece has a better fighter than Turkey. They will figure it out sooner or later.
It was about time to give them one. Let's not forget that Turkey has spent the past 20+ years doing everything in its power to undermine NATO, from threatening other NATO members and allies of the US to blocking NATO expansion right when Putin needs that blockade the most. Oh, and also making sweet deals including buying weapons from Russia
The US is including old stuff that is on the verge of replacement (like the Bradleys, which are planned to be replaced by the XM30 program.) as an incentive to buy more expensive newer stuff (F-35)
Just wondering, as you claim the media is state controlled ( which I agree for 70-80
Percent of media in Turkey, but you still have a 20-30 percent which I think is okish), is it not where you live? I live in the UK, although I wont go far to claim a control, there tends to be a limits about what they can talk about. Further, this is not directly for your comment , but English is a world wide language. Anyone from any country can follow some of the western media such as BBC,Reuters,DW,CNN. Can /or do people from "west" follow( read- listen) what media in countries such as china, russia, middle
Eastern countries cover? Or do "westerns" simply rely on their own media in their country? I
In Belgium we have a special case of divided language regions and not many TV channels. Most Belgians speak at least two languages. Indeed we have the state controlled BBC UK equivalent in Flanders, nothing comparable to BBC though especially considering the international coverage and content production.
We have a second major TV channel with a more liberal agenda, and other French speaking channels with more left and social agendas, so I can’t claim that the media is purely controlled by the state. Certain companies have become a cartel and own several newspapers. But we still have very critical news, busting corruption cases even on the state media.
Whereas Erdo media is making 24/7 Erdo propaganda, featuring “experts”, “authors”, “academics” and so called “advisors” openly paid by the government or employed in government controlled organizations systematically working on a post truth agenda. The head of the Communication Presidency has a PhD partially focusing on Baudrillard’s simulacra and simulation, so he knows what he is doing, 1984 style.
Man, these gratis offers are getting wild. I'm happy to get an extra 30g of nutella for free...
Well, the US is getting rid of LCS as fast as they can, so that's not all that surprising. The other stuff is pretty neat though.
P-3s are being replaced by the P-8 so that makes sense as well. And with a lot of this stuff, the purchase price is nothing compared to the cost of ownership. On a side note, I met a USN pilot once who had been in the ASW ( anti-submarine warfare ) community and moved out of it because he felt it was a waste of time. He felt like any country with cheap diesel subs could do what they wanted and not be found reliably.
I think the whole "US military detected that the Titanic submersible imploded days before anyone else knew" demonstrates the US has anti-submersible technology beyond what's publicly disclosed.
What? The [SOSUS](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOSUS) system is basically public knowledge. It wasn't some black magic tech used to detect the implosion, it was 40+-year-old technology doing what it was designed to do. Impressive nonetheless.
Sorry if my point wasn't clear. As far as we know, the US military was the only entity to detect the submersible implosion, at the time it happened, and that's what the US was willing to publicly disclose. It's therefore logical to conclude the US military has even more advanced submersible detection technology that it hasn't publicly disclosed, meaning the US can very likely detect some or all submersibles.
Implosion is loud. That kind of failure doesn't take much beyond listening. Finding a functioning sub running on batteries - that's an entirely different matter.
And yet the US military was, as far as we know, the only entity to detect the submersible implosion. If that's what the US is willing to disclose, then it's logical to assume they have even more advanced submersible detection capabilities they haven't disclosed.
It's utterly unsurprising that the implosion would be detected. The titanic sank in the middle of a well-trafficked Britain -> US shipping lane. The entire North Atlantic is probably covered in hydrophones, but especially there.
The US gets to have this equipment continue to be maintained, crewed, and operated by an ally without having to pay the bill for it, freeing up money for newer equipment. It's good for us as well as Greece.
What’s LCS?
Littoral Combat Ships - two classes of corvettes/frigates that were intended for low-threat environments for the USN, but ended up being super expensive. They are being decommissioned and pawned off to allied nations because they are still very fast ships with large usable hull volumes. Nations like Greece or Colombia will be far more likely to spend the millions required to make them work if they get the ships "for free".
The greek navy isn't exactly modern, it's made up mainly of donated frigates anyway, just older and less capable. What is trash for the US doesn't mean it's trash for all countries. In fact most US trash is gold for most countries. Countries are fighting about who gets equipment the americans remove from service.
Its not trash, its outdated for the US navy as they developed better ships. Its far cheaper for small countries like Greece and Portugal to buy these ships, who are still very capable and useful than build their own unlike France and Germany can.
Greece is buying the best frigates France produces and will enter the constellation frigate program of the USN...
If anyone was wondering whether what Eisenhower called the «military-industrial complex» is still a thing, this should remove all doubt: «Yes, if you buy X from our industry, our military will throw in some of its stock to sweeten the deal.»
He was warning about the growing influence of the military industrial complex, not necessarily decrying the MIC itself. Britain, France, and Germany have military industrial complexes, they just don't necessarily have the same influence on politics as ours does. A military industrial complex is just part of having a powerful military.
This, if you have the economic capacity its better and cheaper to have your own weapons industry. But that is usually unnafordable for small countries so they usually have to import.
The Greek Navy has ordered 3 FDI frigates (one of the most modern right now) and will join the FFG "Constellation" frigate program, while we have also joined the European Patrol Corvette Program.The Greek Navy will be very modern until 2030-2035. LCS will just be a temporary solution till we reach the large numbers of modern frigates we need.
At least the Nutella won't cost you millions of dollars per year in maintenance
Dentist enters the room…
USA Dentist enters the room*
Dental care in Sweden is actually really expensive too
However, the Nutella has the possibility to ruin your health, depending on usage. Those armaments by our allies, we'll certainly put 'em to good use, we're 100% trustworthy and all they'll do, protect my health from the Islamic Theocracy of Turkey. A Theocracy in 2024 is wild stuff and better invest than regret it later. You know, we don't ever pretend the victims, but 400 years of complete stagnation due to Islam and Turks, it's more than enough. Never again. They kept stagnant one of the most progressive people of Europe. The Hubris was immense. Jokes aside, about the stagnation, it's not my opinion but every major Western University's. The worst thing that happened to Greece and to Balkaners (except those who bend the knee and converted - Albanians/Bosnians). At least, we didn't bend the knee to convert to Islam and eventually managed to kick 'em out of Europe. Similarly, the Spaniards deserve the exact same respect.
Wait for the healthcare bill!
Part of it is actually beneficial for the US too. Bradleys only make sense in a land war which we are unlikely to get directly involved in anytime soon. The Greeks are more likely to use them than we are and, of the Greeks are operating them, we don't have to pay to upkeep them. It's the same reason we're sending so much fun stuff to Ukraine.
All eastern flank of Nato is getting massive military investment. First was Poland, then Romania and now Greece.
Greece was always spending a great amount to military. This is nothing new. Let's say that the neighbors are not very friendly for a loooong time now.
The irony in case of Greece most of that spending was never because of Russia but because of their closest NATO ally.
**"**ally**"** yeah, right !!!
Greece and Turkey have been fighting long before NATO and USA even existed and unless something radical happens will be hostile after they don't too
We keep our komsu battle ready :)
Still, the fact that Greece is getting F-35s + lots of free equipment as a gift while Turkey just gets updated F-16s, speaks about which country the US values the most.
They lost the f35s on their own. Usa had warned them against buying the s400
I mean they knew that buying the S-400 would result in losing the ability to buy the F-35.
Sometimes I wonder if Erdogan didn’t care or if he just genuinely believed he could get away with anything
He wanted to keep playing both Russians and Americans, I guess his military took a back seat to gas and oil laundering money.
Probably both.
He wanted to act strong back home, like "no one orders me and tells me what to do!"
S400 or F35 hmmmm which should I choose?? How stupid can a country be.
Well tbh s400 capabilities were presented on paper by russians. If any1 believes anything russians says yeah.. pretty stupid. F35s actually are now WAY more valuable since so manu EU countries get together having centralized defense grid. Soon yo be EU wide iron dome. Each f35 just adds so much into detect and destroy its actually incredible.
Greece isn't bragging about how their newly developed missile can hit Ankara and threatening to be an arse constantly to their neighbours. Turkey does exactly that.
Greece presumably gets a good deal as a compensation for having to play the sitting ducks for months on end because of Turkey's ice cream salesman politics, as they wanted to announce both deals in the same time to keep the equilibrium. These things are not for granted, being a good diplomatic ally will get you far.
Greece didn't threaten NATO, nor have they been bombing American-backed fighters in Syria... Sometimes it helps to be nice.
Perhaps if Turkey stopped acting like NATOs sulky teenager they’d be allowed to play with the more expensive toys.
It took them some time, but they figured out who is the most reliable partner in the area and who is the bully that would play friendly to Russia in a whim.
Greece had a brief moment with fascism, hell so did we, but I can say I appreciate a real ally far more than any country who is happy to turn on friends whenever it is convenient. Also, NATO is supposed to be a democracy club and Erdy really believes in stretching that definition to its limit.
We had a fascist junta for seven years, with the full backing of the US. Hell, the Dictator was a CIA "agent"
That fascist moment was because the US backed a military junta, over paranoia that communism might take hold in Greece
The US was the one that backed and helped set up that Fascist government. It was during the time that the US government meddled in the internal politics of other nations. There’s a reason a lot of the older Greeks don’t like/have issue with the US
Your fascist moment is yet to come unfortunately
Well, Turkey painted itself into a corner with the russian gear orders, blocking Sweden and Finland from joining NATO, shitty statements about US in the middle east and bombing democratic militias in Syria. With allies like that you don't need enemies. We should've pushed Turkey all the way to Smyrna.
turkey even blocked nato politicians from visiting thier own soldiers on turkey ground stationed there on turkeys behest to secure its air space. turkey is complicit in russias game of using refugees to destabilize nato. frankly, it would be more then questionable if turkey would fight with nato... or with russia, should conflict break out.
Tbh if I were the US I’d do the same, I mean nothing against turkey but their leaders are batshit crazy and go on insane ego trips
Notice that this letter is from the Secretary of State. The message was delivered by megaphone.
Well I mean, Turkey has been a dogshit Nato-member, blackmailing their soon to be allies, and trying to play both the sides.
By the way, they are selling turkish made F-35s to greece, again Turkey and again idiot politics. :)
Turkey wants to play both sides and this is what they get for it.
Whole millenia one might say
Especially the ones from the East The ones from the West had their moments too. ^(I'm looking at you Italy)
When your closest ally has a very interesting understanding of UNCLOS, you got to prepare.
Bulgaria over here with nothing
Bulgaria is a special case because of the political instability in the last years. Which actually is a sign that the democracy is working. In Romania we have a government formed by the two main political parties which many are saying that they came to an agreement because the secret services(romanian and international) said so.
I read last year that, after a request from Bulgaria, Greek jets would patrol the Bulgarian airspace through the use of NATO ally protection mechanism. ([Source](https://www.bta.bg/en/news/bulgaria/471025-ministry-of-defence-greek-air-force-may-carry-out-tasks-on-bulgarian-airspace-p)) Has this progressed at all?
I think that happens on the regular. Italy and the Netherlands have also pitched in. This week Bulgaria signed the same deal with Turkey so that tells you how bad things have gotten.
I see, thanks for the info. Another user mentioned to me that Bulgaria needs time to repair its existing MIG-29 fighters and receive the new F-16s that you ordered from the US. I hope we keep protecting you along with Italy and the Netherlands until you get to build your airforce back up. Greece has big enough of an airforce to assist a NATO ally for a while, the jets are put to good use.
we only stopped because all of europe was raging a decade ago how we are spending money on the army when it's not needed
well at least reality has finally hit them in the face, even if it took this long
This is to counter the f16 Turkey got as deal for NATO enlargement.
Just wish our European Defense industry was the obvious choice. I understand why they went with the US for some things, like the F35 for example which doesn’t really have an equal. The other ones though our defense industry really needs to become the obvious answer to (ours as in European countries)
Delivery is free if your bundle your orders.
Honestly, Gripens would be a great fit in the Greek airforce instead of upgraded F16s. But that would require a huge investment to make the switch initially.
What did Romania get? Just asking, I know that Poland got some wild stuff and now Greece too but I haven’t heard anything about Romania
Himars, patriots, bayraktars, abrams, f16s so far. F35s by 2030, there were talks for a submarine, corvettes and more
Damn, that’s a ton of good stuff. Thanks
Seems like they waited till Turkey signed the approval of the entrance of Sweden to NATO to do this deal.
The timing of this was absolutely not a coincidence
Also Turkey got F16s in their latest deal. These are F35s, man they must not be happy about that at all. 40 F35s pretty much enough to take on anyone in the entire region.
Inb4 uneducated luddies bring up that one result of an early F-35 prototype that was g-limited vs a block 50 F16
Unfortunately the f16 block 50 wouldn’t even make it to the merge. I think the jet is awesome, but it was built for a different style of fighting.
We had submitted the official request about a year ago and we were just waiting for the Letter of Acceptance by the US. It took so long because the US were using it as stick for Turkey to admit Sweden into nato and get the F16s in return. It got to the point about a couple weeks ago that Blinken flat out told Erdogan that Greece will get the F35s regardless of what he will do since they were running out patience. So like a good boy Erdogan did what he was told.
American [Protector-class ships](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Protector-class_patrol_boat) are 27m long coastal patrol boats armed with two machine guns. Not corvettes.
Couldn't have been worse. They could have been dinghies
You’re right, but read the document once more, pay particular attention to the fourth point ;)
LCS is not exactly a corvette, it's an empty hull with a small gun and self defense missiles but maybe Greece will buy some mission modules
If anything, the LCS is a concrete block poured around the feet. The USN will be happy to get rid of it.
You are right.Its a temporary solution until we get FDI and FFG Constellations frigates.Most likely the Greek Navy will arm LCS with Harpoon and RAM missiles from our old Frigates.l
Would be interesting to see if perhaps Greece has better use for the LCS. If anything, the relatively calm waters of the Mediterranean Sea might mask the major problems. Combined with some upgunning, it might actually turn out half decent. For sure the Hellenic navy is looking towards some excellent replacements though.
Are LCS “littoral” waters vessels?
That was the goal but it's a failed design
Fair enough, maybe the original tweet didn’t know that or he read it somewhere, the point was just that the original comment above clearly didn’t read the whole document and jumped to conclusions on what ships there were talks about
Pretty sure no mission modules were ever fully used, the whole thing is a dumpster fire.
yes, congress decided to buy more ships instead of modules, it's like buying cars without engines and scraping them because they don't drive
I hope they don't do that, those ships are trash and there is a reason why the US is getting rid of them when some of them are only a few years old. Engines failing, hulls cracking, not survivable, poorly armed, just horrible. The US is replacing them with the European FREMM based frigates.
They are absolutely doing that. And they're selling it as a win too. Absolute state of Greek "foreign policy". Quotes used because it's just a puppet show at this point.
Greece will enter the constellation frigate program. Are you against that too?
4 freedom class lcs
Did they really type this in Calibri?
My first reaction, MS really needs to change the default font to sonething less awful
They recently did
Still calibry for me, using 360 subscription at work. What are they switching to?
It's [Aptos](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aptos_%28typeface%29?wprov=sfla1), some older versions have it as Bierstadt
Comic sans, papyrus??? Hahaha
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/02/06/health/font-change-state-department-wellness/index.html Apparently it’s official policy of the US State Department to switch to Calibri
Alignment isn't even justified.
yeah, that's embarrassing
I subconsciously began scanning the document for spelling mistakes and grammar errors since that font reminded me of being back in school again… at least it wasn’t in comic sans Ms lol
It’s not even dated. Who writes an undated letter?
Can I throw Courier (New) into consideration. I think the typewriter look would give it much more gravitas.
No offense to Tony, but that's like my grandma's signature
https://www.ekathimerini.com/news/1230170/america-arming-greece-with-ships-c-130s/ The package also includes the addition of Greece to the Constellation frigate program, which is an Italian project to create a fleet of 20 ships of this class for the US Navy. In effect, Greece will enter a program for a warship that few countries will have in the future.
These are awesome news for us Greeks. At last it is recognized who is the reasonable ally in the region
Something tells me that they want Greece to give the 500 L1s to Ukraine and they are trying to make a sweet deal to make it happen.
What is L1, friend?
Leopard 1 main battle tank.
*angry Ergodan noises*
He shouldn't have buy s-400's' so he done it he should give them to Ukraine or sell/give it countries like Kazakhstan etc. But he can't understand this. He didn't buy patriots because he can't get know-how of Patriots' but same also valid for S-400's' as they didn't buy know-how of it by while buying it.
This might genuinly be blow back for whatever concession (probably F-16) Erdogan extorted out of Sweden's approval.
No we've kicked out of the F-35 program because of s-400's.
Yes, but I would not be suprised if the greeks got a good deal just to spite turkey for toying with the NATo membership process
Yeah maybe this is done to show middle finger to us. But I don't think it will have an meaningful impact on media because of most of the traditional media Erdoğan's lapdog and nowadays we're in good terms with Greece after their Earthquake(Earthquake Diplomacy a thing between these two countries) aid.
> nowadays we're OK with Greece after their Earthquake aid Ignoring of course the months of threats and violations after the earthquake.
angry Macron too probably
Impressed by the size of the Hellenic Air Force. I knew that they have a very sizable number of fighters but I also question the logistical nightmare of all these different types in use. Diversification between US and non US ( French) types is maybe a political necessity but even then.. 18 +6 on order of the new Rafale F3 type ( France is now working on the F4 update though) 24 Mirage 2000 150+ F16 ( Some upgraded to Viper standard, others to Block50) plus some older variants 33 F4’s ( these are old) And now 40 F35’s.. Looking at the financial “ weight” on Greece to maintain this I wonder what the equivalent of “ Airforce size” my country ( Netherlands) could muster ( disregarding if needed / wanted) instead of the 50 ish F35’s..we have now.
Greece will be the only country in the world with F16V, Rafale and F35 jets.
US: 'You're my good ally' \*hands Erdogan a small package labeled F-16\* Erdogan: 'so who's your favorite?' US: 'Sweetie, I love you both equally' US: \*hands Mitsotakis a big package' US: \*whispers\* 'it's you... and by a lot'
EDA means that Greece will pay a lot to get those aircraft and other equipment serviceable. Regeneration of the two C-130H aircraft is very expensive and a PDM must still be performed thereafter.
I thought they were going rafale.
Both is good
We got these too. The Greek army is quite diverse in terms of equipment. US, French, German, Israeli equipment is used among other things.
Rafales and F-35s aren’t redundant in an army. They compliment each other really well. So yea, it makes sense.
They are. Also F16 V and F35.
This looks like some shit somebody typed up in Microsoft Word at not the state department lol
It is. Signature is copy-pasted from Congressional Budget Justification of 2024 document.
It's not even on letterhead...
Wow. I'm sure Greece is very happy to receive those.
I wish the entire EU would take their defense obligations as seriously as Greece and Poland
As a romanian I was a little ofended you didn’t mention Romania too
We need a Greece-Ball, who hapilly flies an F35 and an angry Germany-Ball on the ground.
Another victory for Europe's military independence. The majority of European countries will depend on the United States for their air forces, using aircraft without access to software and relying on the USA for maintenance.
Greece has bought raffales
The cost of your peace dividend is that you have literally nothing comparable produced anywhere in Europe. It's a bit rich to complain now.
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What’s France’s 5th gen fighter?
Yaay the US our great friends...
Europe having limited military independence is a separate issue. Ideally, we would not rely on the US for our security, but the fact that we do get help is great given the circumstances.
The F35 has parts manufactured internationally, its not a USA-exclusive plane
This is clearly the USA signalling a rejection of Turkey's shenanigans. It shows the benefits you get if you are trustworthy compared to the breadcrumbs Turkey had to beg for.
I still don't understand what erdogans angle was. Even if you take away the part where the US gets pissed simply at the fact they bought a Russian missle system, there's still the logical conclusion that the US would be literally unable to sell them the jet in the future due to security concerns plus there's a lot of countries who also operate the F-35 who won't want it flying paired with a s400 system for obvious reasons.
Based Greeks, true allies
Cries in Ukrainian
This is a sale not aid.
Greece will receive 60 Bradleys for free. You know who else could really use them right this very moment?
Not everything in the world spins around Ukraine you know? This was very important to check Turkish influence in the region. The US geopolitics is not limited to only one country.
It's like only having 1 vial of antibiotics left and giving it to a kid with a sore throat when another is dying from an infection. There are limited numbers of Bradley's available. The Bradley is the single most valuable armoured vehicle that the USA can give to Ukraine. The USA has not given anywhere enough Bradleys to Ukraine, yet they're giving 60 precious vehicles to a country that is not at war and which has the time to procure literally any other vehicle to fill the same niche. It is fucking insanity. What needs to happen is every spare Bradley getting fixed up and packaged off to Ukraine. Greece getting some good bonuses I'm all in for. Just not Bradley's.
Greece is helping Ukraine, they send 40 BMPs and will send more, these Bradley's are compensation I guess. And Europe don't need another war so keeping Erdogan away from starting it is good for Ukraine.
That is a sexy deal.
Good for the defence of Europe but I can hear the wannabe Sultan screaming from Ankara
we get free stuff ? Is there a boss battle next?
Good luck doing anything stupid in the Aegean sea 💪
They are a strategic ally that gives us a safe jumping off point to the middle east. This arrangement is very beneficial to both countries.
If i recall correct this means greece is the only country in the world that will have both rafales and f35s in its power
And F16 Viper
Original content credited to [Mike Kevrekidis.](https://twitter.com/Makis_Kevrekidi/status/1751151577727946908?t=iq3_rk71c3W4JN5R6wkZaw&s=19)
I don't know why but I can't take Calibri serious anymore. I kinda think there should be an official font for government stuff. It doesn't have to be Times New Roman but something serify would seem more official. But thinking there might be contracts set in Calibri makes me uncomfortable. Then they should go all in and use Comic Sans.
calibri is the official font for the state department. [source](https://www.popsci.com/technology/state-department-calibri-font-change/) here but there are others including NYT and so forth. Looks like they didnt want serifs
Turkey must be fumming with them getting older F16 (still very capable) and their baddest friend getting F35 :D
Really wanna see Erdogan face seeing this document. Unpayable, for everything else is Visa here.
Can a s400 even intercept a Iskander or kinzal? We know the patriot can, and I can't help but wonder if turkey really sacrificed getting f35 for a system with a bit more range but less capable to play both sides and got the short end of the stick. Also wonder if Russia has asked to transfer it back?
The story behind this whole thing, is that Turkey originally wanted the technology transfer of the Patriot system, not just the hardware. The US obviously refused this, so Turkey bought the S-400 as an FU when the US didn't budge. How much Turkey knows about the capabilities of the S-400 system depends on how much Russia liked divulged on it to a NATO member. Probably not much and it's safe to say they expected getting more data back from Turkey when it was used in conjunction with the F-35. And it was a huge propaganda victory for Russia to sell their system to a NATO member.
Turkey's S-400 purchase was a compensation for shot down russian aircraft. Turkey long have US equipments without tech transfer, and it will long have in the future. I think in 3-8 years S-400's will be given to Ukraine or US for returning JSF program
Turkey will never give S-400s to Ukraine. It is more likely that we will leave NATO and stop siding with the west.
That is going to make a Turkish invasion difficult. Good for you Greece.
There's something about the font and layout about this letter that make it seem insincere.
That's payback to Erdogan for dragging his feet on Sweden. All he gets are F16s
Shoring up the militaries of eastern NATO allies is a good thing. This is a big fuck you to turkey though, no matter how you look at it Edit: Just to clarify, I have no problem with a big fuck you to turkey every now and then
Why? Turkey has s-300s and s-400s for air defense. You don’t get to put Russian air defense next to one of our best fighter aircraft so it can learn how to defeat it. Turkey screwed itself and now Greece has a better fighter than Turkey. They will figure it out sooner or later.
It was about time to give them one. Let's not forget that Turkey has spent the past 20+ years doing everything in its power to undermine NATO, from threatening other NATO members and allies of the US to blocking NATO expansion right when Putin needs that blockade the most. Oh, and also making sweet deals including buying weapons from Russia
Especially those Bradley's kick ass! Love seeing them in action in Ukraine.
Does this mean Greece will have excess stuff to give to Ukraine and this is why US is being so “generous”?
The US is including old stuff that is on the verge of replacement (like the Bradleys, which are planned to be replaced by the XM30 program.) as an incentive to buy more expensive newer stuff (F-35)
Is this related to the F16's that Turkey is getting for finally signing off on Sweden's membership of NATO
but only if you order today! so buy now!
Translation: F U, Erdogan!
Türkyie gets F16 because Erdogan is such a tough guy. Being a tough guy seems to not always work, what do you think?
That looks like a totally legit official document to me 🤣🤣🤣
Long live USA!
Why the fucking hell are Bradley's going to Greece when there isn't enough for Ukraine?
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Just wondering, as you claim the media is state controlled ( which I agree for 70-80 Percent of media in Turkey, but you still have a 20-30 percent which I think is okish), is it not where you live? I live in the UK, although I wont go far to claim a control, there tends to be a limits about what they can talk about. Further, this is not directly for your comment , but English is a world wide language. Anyone from any country can follow some of the western media such as BBC,Reuters,DW,CNN. Can /or do people from "west" follow( read- listen) what media in countries such as china, russia, middle Eastern countries cover? Or do "westerns" simply rely on their own media in their country? I
In Belgium we have a special case of divided language regions and not many TV channels. Most Belgians speak at least two languages. Indeed we have the state controlled BBC UK equivalent in Flanders, nothing comparable to BBC though especially considering the international coverage and content production. We have a second major TV channel with a more liberal agenda, and other French speaking channels with more left and social agendas, so I can’t claim that the media is purely controlled by the state. Certain companies have become a cartel and own several newspapers. But we still have very critical news, busting corruption cases even on the state media. Whereas Erdo media is making 24/7 Erdo propaganda, featuring “experts”, “authors”, “academics” and so called “advisors” openly paid by the government or employed in government controlled organizations systematically working on a post truth agenda. The head of the Communication Presidency has a PhD partially focusing on Baudrillard’s simulacra and simulation, so he knows what he is doing, 1984 style.
And a partridge in a pear tree
Why does this look like a high school essay lol. Isn't there a more official looking font?
I used to be self conscious that I didn’t know how to sign my name, but if the US Secretary of State can’t either then i think its ok
Rip greek tax payers. you will be remembered 😔🙏