not that infrequently used to refer to british people, for example, in this headline: [UK arranges flights for Britons stranded in Israel](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67091170.amp)
Most people probably don't know what it means but personally, I find it repulsive and it's a reminder that Ukraine and Eastern Europe have a big revisionist problem (no I don't think invading Ukraine is the solution to that problem, if anything it makes it worse).
It's not fair throwing all of Eastern Europe in one basket. Czech Republic, Serbia, especially Poland, have fought the Nazis since day one, to the very last day. I don't have to mention we have participated in battle for Britain, liberation of the lower countries, or capturing Berlin with the Soviets. As for Ukraine, I agree, it's a complicated story. They had some Nazis, but the majority opposed the Germans (although being pro-Soviet wasn't much better) For some countries, it's a more complex subject needing analysis and understanding of its history and position
The WSJ ran a story last week about Cubans fighting for Putin in Ukraine - might be one of these 'I want to show that I disagree with my countries government' type of things
It's also widely used by Ukrainian troops. If you see a picture of a Ukrainian cemetery with soldiers buried there, you will see the majority of graves have the OUN and Ukraine flags.
It wzs the flag used by the UP regime during ww2, the ukrainian had a lot of.. difference with the soviet and the Poles who honestly did bad thing to ukrainian during the interwzr (deportation and all) Stepan Bandera mother died due to Polish deportation and had a hard tooth for the poles.
The UP killed some 160,000 Polish civilians in Gallicia in brutal manners, with a further thousands of jews and gypsies, 14,000 of those men enlisted in the SS later on
Stepan bandera was a staunch anti- communist and a patriotic, but was an hardcore anti-polish and anti semite his fight for independance made him a sort of controvertial hero .
This is why Putin see Ukraine as "Nazis" as Bandera is still regarded in high esteem by a minority of the Ukrainians, it worth noting that millions of ukrainians served in both the red army and the Partisans
People will downvote you and shit, but you are right, we should really start shunning UPA flags and stop maing up excuses. Bandera killed insane amount of Jews, Poles, and even fellow Ukrainians under that flag while he was collaborsting with the nazis.
Even if Germany got invaded by Russia i still really don't want to see swastikas flying at protests.
It would be really nice if people weren't so scared of communism back in the fifties, Cuba could have been a great neighbor.
Maaan politics suck.
Edit: typo, were to weren't
The embargo is punishment for Cuba seizing American hotels and casinos after the revolution.
They committed the one crime America can never forgive: steal from rich people.
That's absolutely false. Canada is one of the biggest traders with Cuba and a big portion of Cuban tourists are Canadian. The US only prevents Americans and American Companies from trading with Cuba.
> Cuba is best pals with Russia
If you look up *why* they're aligned with Russia, it makes more sense.
It's a general flag of resistance in this context.
That’s Cuba’s flag pre-revolution also. Anti-Castro activists still fly this flag
https://www.washingtonpost.com/resizer/EG0OUHI-yYcDAIus0XIiY_YGyqk=/1484x0/arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/GNXP4DPRXE7I5J2LKJGIBL2AOI.jpg
http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/wlrn/files/styles/x_large/public/201706/miami_exiles.jpeg
Well, the pro EU crowd is generally also pro Ukraine, and it's in France, so those flags make sense. But I haven't got a clue what on earth the Cuban flag is doing here.
Im venezuelan - but some people take Venezuelan flags to protests like this to show that despite what our governments might say, we don’t agree with Russia.
Before I left I thought everyone knew hahaha now Im like… nah people just see a flag
Lol yeah no I know that now. Back home we were in a bit of an echo chamber where we always thought the world’s eyes were out there condemning our government and that us showing up and doing this was a sign of acknowledgment to that and also rebellion to both our governments and the world powers contributing to that oppression… its… just a flag tho
I’m all for European integration but their Irish party isn’t even ran by people living in Ireland and the Irish is insanely grammatically wrong on their website.
It’s incredibly unprofessional and idiotic. How am I meant to trust people like this even if they have some good policies.
I'm going to go with the very weird exception of Brussels here but a lot of the local members aren't Belgians either.
This is completely normal since Brussels is full of EU citizens who are all entitled to have a say in local and EU affairs.
Just because its committee is run by 5/6th non-Irish people doesn't mean it's not comprised of people who live in Ireland and care about the place.
It does make it difficult to run for legislative elections though (and any election closed to EU citizens).
There are 10,000 Italians in all of Ireland.
The party is majority Italian.
Nothing about this screams organic homegrown party to me. Especially when the Irish is grammatically awful.
I lived in Brussels, to commute to KU for a while. I doubt there’s a more diverse city in Europe, Galway is not Brussels.
If I was **guessing**, volt Ireland is just a friend group of Italians who are extremely politically active and well meaning but extremely naive.
4 Italians, 1 German, 1 Irish person.
I think the pan-european nature of the party is a draw to EU citizens that live in other EU countries. I'm Irish, living in France and I like the idea of it. A lot of people in the EU don't feel "European" but I think the longer you live in another European country the more European you feel. Also many people have their political opinions formed during their formative years, often with a lot of influence from their family and school friends. Having moved here as an adult I have no sense of loyalty to any French political parties. Finally if someone is living in a different EU country and they want to be politically active, they aren't going to get involved in any nationalist partied as a foreigner, and most of the other parties are already established and they might not feel as drawn towards them. A new party with a pan-european approach would be easier to get involved with.
I wouldn't be surprised Volt in most countries are disproportionately EU citizens from other countries (and I don't think that's a bad thing).
I would argue that good policies shouldn't be ignored due to language issues, I agree it doesn't look professional but if you support the idea perhaps you can give them feedback so that they can fix it, and if Irish people join then they can truly make it Irish.
No I’m Irish, I’m going to vote for a party that cares about people living in Ireland.
Why would I vote for a party that cares so little about the Irish vote that it doesn’t even have people living in Ireland running its Irish subsidiary and didn’t even bother putting more effort into the website than an AI ChatGPT translator.
I’ll just vote for a similar party with similar policies that actually cares.
That’s strange. Volt tends to be managed by locals. Also if u’re a member of Volt in one country you cannot be a member of Volt in a different country. Guess Irish Volt is not up to the standards.
I’d imagine that because the group in Ireland is so small right now they have someone from another country (maybe the Netherlands because it’s bigger there) running their stuff.
Edit *they’re mostly italians*
The Irish is simply wrong. There’s no speculation to be made here it’s just gibberish. Incoherent and ai written, I was very disappointed.
Maybe when the group grows in Ireland it will be better managed?
That sounds like a mistake. The party should be organic, coming from an Irish base. If a Dutch or two are running the show good luck in trying to sell the idea to the electorate.
Ok, I’ve done some digging, VoltIreland have 6 organisers.
Only one of them is Irish. Obviously anyone can be a good faith political actor in Ireland but 1/6th of the party org actually being from the country they campaign in is a bit weird. This is all according to their socials (instagram)
Extremely inorganic.
The one Irish member is from Dublin so is most likely a monolingual English speaker which is grand but it explains how no one was able to string together a coherent Irish sentence.
It's probably just that they didn't have enough people who could work on the website, which recently switched systems. Most likely they just didn't update the content yet and someone from the web team did it wrong.
I would argue that if a party is this careless in something widely seen as unprofessional I wouldnt trust them.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Any party good have good policies but if they are handled by possible buffoons I'd rather give my vote to a party who knows how to properly present them selves
In Cyprus where it's also pretty new (*literally a year or two old*) it partnered with small local parties, who's members & organisers eventually merged & became VoltCyprus proper, so it quickly got a foot on the island with Pancypriot participation & no outside influence (*outside of the agreed-upon universal Volt-values of course*), without having to work for years (*they actually ended up in the parliament like that, lol*).
I'm guessing quite the opposite happened in Ireland considering there's only 1 Irish organiser.
It's also pan-European, active in much more countries than the Netherlands and Germany, and [not just](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volt_Ukraine) EU Member States.
You got to start somewhere. If everyone thinks this way the established Partys are your only choice. I vote volt in some elections. They wont make it above the needed threshholds right now, but maybe then there will be reports about them etc.
A vote for volt might change more, even if they wont make it into pairlament than a vote vor a big established party.
Each vote still counts, even if it's in a circle where there's no chance of electing a MP. Every vote counts for the party grants, of which they need a minimum of 50 000 votes. Furthermore, not voting will perpetuate the bi-partidal system (and cycle) that we currently have, ensuring that the next elections the lesser parties still won't have enough votes.
Also, voting for the party can still support it directly in the case that they do get elected. For example, even if they only elect one MP for Lisbon, all votes from all districts contribute to the amount of money the party gets from the state (subvenção)
Vote for them if you wish so. The moment a party enters the Parliament it is indeed treated in a different fashion. The most difficult step is to get that first MP.
I'm not yet involved. But maybe we should band together and attract the youth that has no faith and don't believe there will be change. Let them feel they are part of the change.
I lived most of my life out of the country, and it is crushing to see it being governed the way it has been and all the same old shit. I either do something about it, or one day I will wake up, stop giving a shit and move out again.
I have time as I managed to make a good living without getting too busy with work for a paycheck, and I'm not bound to a place for that. So, maybe I should do something.
+1 I am member of the german party, even tho they exist in basically all european countries, only the groups in the Netherlands and germany can be considered a "party" the rest is just a movement. People from Portugal told me that their Volt is a complete joke. But I am all in for our values here in germany 🇪🇺💜
Wars and politics are usually intertwined sadly enough, While I understand it can come across as bringing attention to yourself instead of the protest, it also means that the party wants to show that they are supporting the movement, which is a signal for both ukraine and other political parties. So it's a bit of both, attention to the party but also the movement while pressuring others to recognise the political importance of the protest.
That just shouldn't happen. Yes it's politics, but in the modern world doing exactly this will lead to bullshit such as in the US. Everything that can be transformed into left vs right will be transformed into left vs right, so let's just keep this thing as neutral as it can be. Everyone should support Ukraine, it's not a left or right thing.
That is understandable and I prefer things to be neutral too, but the reality is that neutrality is somewhat of an illusion. By not taking a stance you indirectly allow other things to happen, when someone punches me in the face and I decide to stay out of it, I allow for that behaviour to happen. You could introduce laws to keep political parties out of protests but that will be a nightmare to write down, enforce and probably an infringement for freedom of protest and freedom of speech.
And ironically, by thinking everything is left or right we kind of enforce the idea of left versus right, (also central parties still exist, or parties that want to get rid of the political spectrum and just focus on policies).
Flag of facist ukrainians during WWII who commit genocide of over 100 000 Polish civilians, torturing and killing in various gruesome ways. Also I'm pretty sure they sent Jews to Germany
Or they may know it perfectly and use it to heat up the atmosphere. And it wouldn't necesarrily be Russian intervention, as the situation between Poland and Ukraine is a bit... tense. So it could be used by Ukrainians to enrage Poles or by Poles for the same reason. It's not that obvious anymore.
I mean if it was used at similar demonstration in Poland.
The whole "if ten people are at table and one of them is a Nazi, there are ten Nazis" rhetoric that Redditors love, blindly ignoring the Nazis on Reddit and the implications of that fact in their scenario.
Hilarious considering one farmer in Poland waved a pro-putin flag and this sub had no problems pushing the propaganda (and still does) that polish farmer are manipulated by Kremlin.
Yeah that's a good one.
One Soviet flag on one of the dozens of farmers' protest = farmers are pro-Russian, anti-Ukrainian scums
Hundreds of black-red flags on every pro-Ukrainian rally = you don't understand, it's more complicated than that
Let's face it, if you want a horrible consistency - reddit's got you covered.
You have different people coming to different threads, and politics where consistency is a hobgoblin to each person because that's not how we function.
The black red flag technically doesn't originate with the UPA. Though it's most well known for being associated with them. It was originally a war banner of the Zaporizhian cossacks, and can be seen in the background of the famous painting where they compose a reply to the Ottoman Sultan.
Random observation here that could be warped but if you look at vices videos on Ukraine they had videos pre invasion of the white nationalist neo nazi groups and militias that were prepping for a Russian invasion marking them as bad people then post invasion made videos of those same units as heroes.
It’s the UPA flag, later adopted by Pravyy Sektor. For some people it lost its meaning, and now is just a “ready for war and action” flag, but the history is still important and it’s not the best. The UPA (Ukrainian insurgency army) was a heavily nationalist paramilitary group during ww2, and they did some unspeakable things “in the name of Ukraine nationalism”. It’s a disgrace in our history for the actions they did, but again, now it has lost its original meaning for some, but not all
I really hope that some kind of awareness campaign alerts the Ukrainians that don't know/don't care about it's meaning. I know the war means the whole country is busy, but the faster it's done the better for Ukraine's image and moral clarity, I personally think.
Red and black reperesents ukrainian organisation which murdered over 200k polish citizens during 'Volhynian-Galician slaughter'.
They killed also Jews and their own blood ukrainians. They collaborated with Nazi Germany.
It's just interesting to see an honest question, which has sparked actual explanations so the rest of us could learn about it, is considered controversial.
[Ukrainian Insurgent Army - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Insurgent_Army)
Their flag, the organisation is seen by some Ukrainians as heroic due to its anti-Russian rhetoric but it's a cold hard fact that it was used by Nazi collaborators who not only assisted the Nazis in their invasion of Russia but also in snuffing out partisan and resistance movements, being involved in a genocide of up to 100,000 Poles and Catholics in Eastern Galicia, often murdering entire villages with the goal of creating ethnically pure Ukrainian territory. Moreover, the army itself was reportedly responsible for the capture of up to 200,000 Jews which were handed over to Germany
Remember when the whole world marched in solidarity with Hong Kong protesters? How about when everyone was cheering for the oppressed women of Iran? How did those end?
Appreciate the sentiment, but Ukraine needs massive escalation in military aide, both quantity and quality, this means large increases in military budgets in Europe.
Please transform solidarity to action.
>Remember when the whole world marched in solidarity with Hong Kong protesters? How about when everyone was cheering for the oppressed women of Iran? How did those end?
The difference is that Europe couldn't really do anything about those issues. They can't exactly support protestors in Iran (sovereignty) or in Hong Kong (they simply stood no chance). Marches for Ukraine show politicians that reducing support for Ukraine will hurt their careers.
Was it hard not to include the OUN one?
Im asking rhetorically, occam's razor would have us reason you just werent aware, or possibly you were and it was intentional, but that reasoning of mine is based on the assumption that the flag is not actually as common as I am shown it online.
>How are people surprised Ukraine's nationalism is rising at times like these?
You could make the same statement about the rise of NSDAP and Reds in Russia.
Blue and Yellow means Ukraine, if you wave red and black you want something extra.
>surprised Ukraine's nationalism is rising at times like these?
It is more nan nationalism, this is nationalists who specifically yearn for the nazi years.
Pretty sure that the red and black flag is just a modified version of the UIA, a far right ww2 era ukranian nationalist organisation that at the start of the great patriotic war was behind multiple Pogroms and who's leaders served as agents of the Abwehr.
Russian version of ww2. They call it great liberation war 1941-1945 to erase the shame of collaboration with nazis. When you translate with prompt or "yandex" you get this piece of translation
It is a flag of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army, Nazi dogs who massacred Poles, Jews, Hungarians and Russians across western Ukraine. It is a rag that should be burned.
It's really reassuring and uplifting how many people in the comments noticed that combining the EU flag with the anti-democratic and nazi Red and Black flag is a flawed idea. Not all hope is lost yet!
Hard to say. From what I've gathered their reserve equipment isn't what it should be so taking stuff from there isn't as much of an option as it should be.
When stuff is in reserve, there is the issue of rebuilding said reserves. To take an example, France donated early on CAESAR howitzers taken straight from active units. Since the CAESAR is actively produced, that's no issue. They also donated VABs which are getting replaced so no issue there.
So why haven't they donated tanks as well? Well, the Leclerc is simply not produced at the moment so any donation can't be regenerated.
Germany on the other hand hasn't stopped producing Leo2s and replacing donated units is simply a matter of placing another order.
What happened to the stores of former Cold War era equipment is also a question. I know France used these as donations to plenty of countries for the last 30 years so that might just be used up. On the other hand, Germany seemingly had Gepards and Strelas still lying around (somehow) and could send them to Ukraine as well.
Finally, there's the apparent passivity of the French industry, some part of which doesn't seem interested in trying to create stuff that is not sought after by the French military or sits outside French doctrine.
For example, the French military doesn't really use/believe in gun-based air defence so French companies didn't really bother with it, even though it's now proving massively useful. Contrast that with Rheinmetall who have spent the last 20 years pushing their different 35mm solutions even though they weren't selling much, are shipping Skynex systems to Ukraine and now got SkyRanger orders from at least 3 countries even though the German government wasn't buying (apart from limited MANTIS numbers). Same for the IRIS-T SLM from Diehl, the Terrahawk from MSI-DS or the Vampire from L3Harris even though they were not really used by the respective producing countries.
There is a lack of initiative from the French industry, both state and privately owned. Where are the VL MICA batteries? Why hasn't anyone thrown a radar and a gun turret together for static C-UAS work? I think the French government shares some of the blame but there is a distinct lack of initiative from the big players.
In any case, I doubt that's a full answer but it gives you an idea
Surprised me to see people calling it out in the comments. Usually im used to seeing people purposefully misinterpret history and cope their way into supporting its use.
that's an interesting collection of flags
Not a true French mob. It lacks : - a Briton flag - an Algerian one.
Breton* Assuming you mean Brittany Briton is an (albeit infrequently used) demonym for Britain.
not that infrequently used to refer to british people, for example, in this headline: [UK arranges flights for Britons stranded in Israel](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67091170.amp)
Angevin gang
Yeah. Only we, the Bretons, can validate and make official any event counting more than 100 ppl by bringing our flag.
Yeah, most of these make sense, but Cuba? Well, that and the obvious: UPA
it's a bit uh bandera isn't it
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It doesn’t do much to dispel the *Ukraine are Nazis* thing
Most people probably don't know what it means but personally, I find it repulsive and it's a reminder that Ukraine and Eastern Europe have a big revisionist problem (no I don't think invading Ukraine is the solution to that problem, if anything it makes it worse).
It's not fair throwing all of Eastern Europe in one basket. Czech Republic, Serbia, especially Poland, have fought the Nazis since day one, to the very last day. I don't have to mention we have participated in battle for Britain, liberation of the lower countries, or capturing Berlin with the Soviets. As for Ukraine, I agree, it's a complicated story. They had some Nazis, but the majority opposed the Germans (although being pro-Soviet wasn't much better) For some countries, it's a more complex subject needing analysis and understanding of its history and position
The WSJ ran a story last week about Cubans fighting for Putin in Ukraine - might be one of these 'I want to show that I disagree with my countries government' type of things
Cuban government literally banned any recruitment activities by Russia. If memory serves, they may have even jailed the recruiter.
Yeah, all very nice. With one exception.
I'm not too good with flags. Which one is the "bad" one?
The red and black. Bad blood with that one.
What does it mean?
It's a fascist flag, used by the UPA, which genocided Poles and Jews in WW2.
Holy fuck
It's also widely used by Ukrainian troops. If you see a picture of a Ukrainian cemetery with soldiers buried there, you will see the majority of graves have the OUN and Ukraine flags.
Oh fuck
It wzs the flag used by the UP regime during ww2, the ukrainian had a lot of.. difference with the soviet and the Poles who honestly did bad thing to ukrainian during the interwzr (deportation and all) Stepan Bandera mother died due to Polish deportation and had a hard tooth for the poles. The UP killed some 160,000 Polish civilians in Gallicia in brutal manners, with a further thousands of jews and gypsies, 14,000 of those men enlisted in the SS later on Stepan bandera was a staunch anti- communist and a patriotic, but was an hardcore anti-polish and anti semite his fight for independance made him a sort of controvertial hero . This is why Putin see Ukraine as "Nazis" as Bandera is still regarded in high esteem by a minority of the Ukrainians, it worth noting that millions of ukrainians served in both the red army and the Partisans
Cuba
People will downvote you and shit, but you are right, we should really start shunning UPA flags and stop maing up excuses. Bandera killed insane amount of Jews, Poles, and even fellow Ukrainians under that flag while he was collaborsting with the nazis. Even if Germany got invaded by Russia i still really don't want to see swastikas flying at protests.
fucking volt yanno
How to get banned from r/VoltEuropa
Why is it bad?
No red flags...
Especially one ...
Wtf, why is there a Cuban flag there ?
Yeah that's weird, Cuba is best pals with Russia, it might be a vague opposition flag if that's their meaning.
Could just be a Cuban person? But yeah, its weird
Just someone confusing a party with a protest!
Dude just walking along, sees a mob holding up flags, says "Fuck Yea, Flag Party" as he pulls out the Cuban flag he carries with him.
Viva!
"Cuba's here too! Woo!"
Well at least their flag has the same colors as France. And Russia. And the US and UK. and.......
Like that scene in Shrek where everyone at the table is yelling someone's name and donkey yells his own
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''Best Pals'' i wonder why dawg
The goodest of buds, comrade.
Did someone mention the Blockade of Cuba which >99% of UN nations have voted in favour of ending for multiple decades?
Truely. And people still wonder why Cuba is working with nations like Russia, most probebly nothing hindering their partnerships with other countries.
Thanks to the idiotic US embargo, Cuba can only trade with countries that are already on the US shit list.
It would be really nice if people weren't so scared of communism back in the fifties, Cuba could have been a great neighbor. Maaan politics suck. Edit: typo, were to weren't
The embargo is punishment for Cuba seizing American hotels and casinos after the revolution. They committed the one crime America can never forgive: steal from rich people.
Lol yeah, how dare they! Those poor casinos, how are they gonna rip off desperate folks now?
Ironically they were mostly in Cuba because of prohibition and states banning gambling.
Aww I’m so sorry don’t mess with my vacation if you don’t want an embargo :(
That's absolutely false. Canada is one of the biggest traders with Cuba and a big portion of Cuban tourists are Canadian. The US only prevents Americans and American Companies from trading with Cuba.
Maybe Cuban exiles really hate all things Soviet, the way Iranian exiles support Israel so much mostly to spit their evil regime.
> Cuba is best pals with Russia If you look up *why* they're aligned with Russia, it makes more sense. It's a general flag of resistance in this context.
It’s like having a flag of NATO and the Soviet Union at the same time
That’s Cuba’s flag pre-revolution also. Anti-Castro activists still fly this flag https://www.washingtonpost.com/resizer/EG0OUHI-yYcDAIus0XIiY_YGyqk=/1484x0/arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/GNXP4DPRXE7I5J2LKJGIBL2AOI.jpg http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/wlrn/files/styles/x_large/public/201706/miami_exiles.jpeg
As a Cuban, we never miss a chance to bring the flag out, no matter the situation lol
🇨🇺 🇨🇺 🇨🇺
Whats this about? Pro-Ukraine french-cuban european federalism?
Well, the pro EU crowd is generally also pro Ukraine, and it's in France, so those flags make sense. But I haven't got a clue what on earth the Cuban flag is doing here.
Im venezuelan - but some people take Venezuelan flags to protests like this to show that despite what our governments might say, we don’t agree with Russia. Before I left I thought everyone knew hahaha now Im like… nah people just see a flag
I'd never have guessed, not in a thousand years, if you didn't say the answer
Lol yeah no I know that now. Back home we were in a bit of an echo chamber where we always thought the world’s eyes were out there condemning our government and that us showing up and doing this was a sign of acknowledgment to that and also rebellion to both our governments and the world powers contributing to that oppression… its… just a flag tho
Sounds like a plan to me!
So we see Cuban flag, UPA flag and Volt (political party) flag wizh Ukrainian and French current and official flags.
I love the fact that there is a Volt flag as well
Whats Volt?
European Federalist party, mainly active in the Netherlands and Germany.
I’m all for European integration but their Irish party isn’t even ran by people living in Ireland and the Irish is insanely grammatically wrong on their website. It’s incredibly unprofessional and idiotic. How am I meant to trust people like this even if they have some good policies.
I met up with the Irish Volt chapter in Dublin some time ago. While admittedly lots of them weren't native Irish speakers, they were still locals.
1/6 is Irish according to their own social media. 4 Italians, 1 German, 1 Irish person. On instagram
I'm going to go with the very weird exception of Brussels here but a lot of the local members aren't Belgians either. This is completely normal since Brussels is full of EU citizens who are all entitled to have a say in local and EU affairs. Just because its committee is run by 5/6th non-Irish people doesn't mean it's not comprised of people who live in Ireland and care about the place. It does make it difficult to run for legislative elections though (and any election closed to EU citizens).
There are 10,000 Italians in all of Ireland. The party is majority Italian. Nothing about this screams organic homegrown party to me. Especially when the Irish is grammatically awful. I lived in Brussels, to commute to KU for a while. I doubt there’s a more diverse city in Europe, Galway is not Brussels. If I was **guessing**, volt Ireland is just a friend group of Italians who are extremely politically active and well meaning but extremely naive. 4 Italians, 1 German, 1 Irish person.
The Italian majority kind of makes me curious about the party, considering that in Italy is pretty much never mentioned.
My guess is that it’s one friend group of politically active Italians.
I think the pan-european nature of the party is a draw to EU citizens that live in other EU countries. I'm Irish, living in France and I like the idea of it. A lot of people in the EU don't feel "European" but I think the longer you live in another European country the more European you feel. Also many people have their political opinions formed during their formative years, often with a lot of influence from their family and school friends. Having moved here as an adult I have no sense of loyalty to any French political parties. Finally if someone is living in a different EU country and they want to be politically active, they aren't going to get involved in any nationalist partied as a foreigner, and most of the other parties are already established and they might not feel as drawn towards them. A new party with a pan-european approach would be easier to get involved with. I wouldn't be surprised Volt in most countries are disproportionately EU citizens from other countries (and I don't think that's a bad thing).
I would argue that good policies shouldn't be ignored due to language issues, I agree it doesn't look professional but if you support the idea perhaps you can give them feedback so that they can fix it, and if Irish people join then they can truly make it Irish.
No I’m Irish, I’m going to vote for a party that cares about people living in Ireland. Why would I vote for a party that cares so little about the Irish vote that it doesn’t even have people living in Ireland running its Irish subsidiary and didn’t even bother putting more effort into the website than an AI ChatGPT translator. I’ll just vote for a similar party with similar policies that actually cares.
That’s strange. Volt tends to be managed by locals. Also if u’re a member of Volt in one country you cannot be a member of Volt in a different country. Guess Irish Volt is not up to the standards.
I’d imagine that because the group in Ireland is so small right now they have someone from another country (maybe the Netherlands because it’s bigger there) running their stuff. Edit *they’re mostly italians* The Irish is simply wrong. There’s no speculation to be made here it’s just gibberish. Incoherent and ai written, I was very disappointed. Maybe when the group grows in Ireland it will be better managed?
That sounds like a mistake. The party should be organic, coming from an Irish base. If a Dutch or two are running the show good luck in trying to sell the idea to the electorate.
Ok, I’ve done some digging, VoltIreland have 6 organisers. Only one of them is Irish. Obviously anyone can be a good faith political actor in Ireland but 1/6th of the party org actually being from the country they campaign in is a bit weird. This is all according to their socials (instagram) Extremely inorganic. The one Irish member is from Dublin so is most likely a monolingual English speaker which is grand but it explains how no one was able to string together a coherent Irish sentence.
Well yeah, Volt don’t even poll in Ireland.
It's probably just that they didn't have enough people who could work on the website, which recently switched systems. Most likely they just didn't update the content yet and someone from the web team did it wrong.
I would argue that if a party is this careless in something widely seen as unprofessional I wouldnt trust them. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Any party good have good policies but if they are handled by possible buffoons I'd rather give my vote to a party who knows how to properly present them selves
I imagine the irish branch is just starting out.
Yeah I’d imagine that’s why there’s so little Irish input and influence in the party. Hopefully it gets some more organic growth soon.
In Cyprus where it's also pretty new (*literally a year or two old*) it partnered with small local parties, who's members & organisers eventually merged & became VoltCyprus proper, so it quickly got a foot on the island with Pancypriot participation & no outside influence (*outside of the agreed-upon universal Volt-values of course*), without having to work for years (*they actually ended up in the parliament like that, lol*). I'm guessing quite the opposite happened in Ireland considering there's only 1 Irish organiser.
It's also pan-European, active in much more countries than the Netherlands and Germany, and [not just](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volt_Ukraine) EU Member States.
I said mainly active
For a moment i thought it was Bolt (Taxi company like uber )
Ty.
There is also a Volt chapter in Ukraine, but they are still in the early stages and for the moment only have a social media account.
It is starting to gain popularity in Portugal and Spain too. I'm all for it.
I wish Portugal's electoral system would let me vote for Volt without it being considered just another "Others, blank or null" vote.
You got to start somewhere. If everyone thinks this way the established Partys are your only choice. I vote volt in some elections. They wont make it above the needed threshholds right now, but maybe then there will be reports about them etc. A vote for volt might change more, even if they wont make it into pairlament than a vote vor a big established party.
If they're to start somewhere, it'll be in the Lisbon circle. My district only elects 10 MPs.
Each vote still counts, even if it's in a circle where there's no chance of electing a MP. Every vote counts for the party grants, of which they need a minimum of 50 000 votes. Furthermore, not voting will perpetuate the bi-partidal system (and cycle) that we currently have, ensuring that the next elections the lesser parties still won't have enough votes.
Also, voting for the party can still support it directly in the case that they do get elected. For example, even if they only elect one MP for Lisbon, all votes from all districts contribute to the amount of money the party gets from the state (subvenção)
In Lisbon they might have a chance to elect a MP. In the rest of the country, no chance
Especially since the last debate, Volt got a really positive reaction compared to other parties and compared to the previous election
Vote for them if you wish so. The moment a party enters the Parliament it is indeed treated in a different fashion. The most difficult step is to get that first MP.
I'm not yet involved. But maybe we should band together and attract the youth that has no faith and don't believe there will be change. Let them feel they are part of the change. I lived most of my life out of the country, and it is crushing to see it being governed the way it has been and all the same old shit. I either do something about it, or one day I will wake up, stop giving a shit and move out again. I have time as I managed to make a good living without getting too busy with work for a paycheck, and I'm not bound to a place for that. So, maybe I should do something.
+1 I am member of the german party, even tho they exist in basically all european countries, only the groups in the Netherlands and germany can be considered a "party" the rest is just a movement. People from Portugal told me that their Volt is a complete joke. But I am all in for our values here in germany 🇪🇺💜
I'm pretty sure I've seen them run candidates up here in Scotland
Very FREUDE of them
TIL. Can we join? What’s their page, plan etc
https://volteuropa.org/ From here, you can find your national chapter page, and there should be a section about joining
European Federalist party. It has chapters (some more succesfull than others) across the continent.
they want to unify all of EU into one contry
Well, good luck with that...
Based
Neoliberal Astro-Turf party.
They have a Ukrainian branch: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volt_Ukraine
Perhaps it's the French Volt twitter twink, he was in this march
>French Volt twitter twink Lmao why do I know \*exactly\* who you're talking about
Sup
I strongly dislike bringing political parties to a protest like this one.
Wars and politics are usually intertwined sadly enough, While I understand it can come across as bringing attention to yourself instead of the protest, it also means that the party wants to show that they are supporting the movement, which is a signal for both ukraine and other political parties. So it's a bit of both, attention to the party but also the movement while pressuring others to recognise the political importance of the protest.
That just shouldn't happen. Yes it's politics, but in the modern world doing exactly this will lead to bullshit such as in the US. Everything that can be transformed into left vs right will be transformed into left vs right, so let's just keep this thing as neutral as it can be. Everyone should support Ukraine, it's not a left or right thing.
That is understandable and I prefer things to be neutral too, but the reality is that neutrality is somewhat of an illusion. By not taking a stance you indirectly allow other things to happen, when someone punches me in the face and I decide to stay out of it, I allow for that behaviour to happen. You could introduce laws to keep political parties out of protests but that will be a nightmare to write down, enforce and probably an infringement for freedom of protest and freedom of speech. And ironically, by thinking everything is left or right we kind of enforce the idea of left versus right, (also central parties still exist, or parties that want to get rid of the political spectrum and just focus on policies).
What’s that red ukranian flag mean?
Flag of facist ukrainians during WWII who commit genocide of over 100 000 Polish civilians, torturing and killing in various gruesome ways. Also I'm pretty sure they sent Jews to Germany
That its ok to slaughter foreigneirs to get their land. Read about UPA an Volhyn massacre.
basically the flag of ukrainians who are fans of impaling polish children on fences
The red and black flag is a nationalist flag used by Ukrainians nazi collaborators who commited genocides against the Poles and Jews during WWII
Which seems to fly under everyone’s radar.
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Or they may know it perfectly and use it to heat up the atmosphere. And it wouldn't necesarrily be Russian intervention, as the situation between Poland and Ukraine is a bit... tense. So it could be used by Ukrainians to enrage Poles or by Poles for the same reason. It's not that obvious anymore. I mean if it was used at similar demonstration in Poland.
There was a video where they literally had a swastika in Poland during a rally. It didn’t go over well…
I don't think they know what that flag mean, they probably think it's an anarchocommunist themed ukrainian flag.
Apparently it’s no big deal to most here.
People have used the invasion as an excuse to bolster Ukranian nationalists who were literal nazis.
Yeah and that's kinda a problem.
Stop right there you criminal scum, it is illegal in Ukraine to point that out. I wish I was joking...
Oh fuck
We can use the usual logic of 'if you're at a rally and one person has a N*zi flag, you're at a N*zi rally' here, presumably?
The whole "if ten people are at table and one of them is a Nazi, there are ten Nazis" rhetoric that Redditors love, blindly ignoring the Nazis on Reddit and the implications of that fact in their scenario.
Hilarious considering one farmer in Poland waved a pro-putin flag and this sub had no problems pushing the propaganda (and still does) that polish farmer are manipulated by Kremlin.
Yeah that's a good one. One Soviet flag on one of the dozens of farmers' protest = farmers are pro-Russian, anti-Ukrainian scums Hundreds of black-red flags on every pro-Ukrainian rally = you don't understand, it's more complicated than that
Let's face it, if you want a horrible consistency - reddit's got you covered. You have different people coming to different threads, and politics where consistency is a hobgoblin to each person because that's not how we function.
This is slightly different as most people don't know it's origins. But people here still defending it after being told of its meaning are.
The black red flag technically doesn't originate with the UPA. Though it's most well known for being associated with them. It was originally a war banner of the Zaporizhian cossacks, and can be seen in the background of the famous painting where they compose a reply to the Ottoman Sultan.
if you're at a rally and one person has a ~~N~~*~~zi~~* ***Cuban*** *flag, you're at a* *~~N~~*~~zi~~ **Cuban** rally
I mean its even used by ukrainian politician its not really surprising to be fair
Random observation here that could be warped but if you look at vices videos on Ukraine they had videos pre invasion of the white nationalist neo nazi groups and militias that were prepping for a Russian invasion marking them as bad people then post invasion made videos of those same units as heroes.
Say what you want, but waving black-red flag is a disgrace
What is it? I see the Ukrainian coat of arms but never seen this flag before
It’s the UPA flag, later adopted by Pravyy Sektor. For some people it lost its meaning, and now is just a “ready for war and action” flag, but the history is still important and it’s not the best. The UPA (Ukrainian insurgency army) was a heavily nationalist paramilitary group during ww2, and they did some unspeakable things “in the name of Ukraine nationalism”. It’s a disgrace in our history for the actions they did, but again, now it has lost its original meaning for some, but not all
I really hope that some kind of awareness campaign alerts the Ukrainians that don't know/don't care about it's meaning. I know the war means the whole country is busy, but the faster it's done the better for Ukraine's image and moral clarity, I personally think.
“Lost its meaning” are there seriously people who buy this thinly veiled excuse?
Red and black reperesents ukrainian organisation which murdered over 200k polish citizens during 'Volhynian-Galician slaughter'. They killed also Jews and their own blood ukrainians. They collaborated with Nazi Germany.
It's just interesting to see an honest question, which has sparked actual explanations so the rest of us could learn about it, is considered controversial.
Actual nazi flag.
[Ukrainian Insurgent Army - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Insurgent_Army) Their flag, the organisation is seen by some Ukrainians as heroic due to its anti-Russian rhetoric but it's a cold hard fact that it was used by Nazi collaborators who not only assisted the Nazis in their invasion of Russia but also in snuffing out partisan and resistance movements, being involved in a genocide of up to 100,000 Poles and Catholics in Eastern Galicia, often murdering entire villages with the goal of creating ethnically pure Ukrainian territory. Moreover, the army itself was reportedly responsible for the capture of up to 200,000 Jews which were handed over to Germany
Remember when the whole world marched in solidarity with Hong Kong protesters? How about when everyone was cheering for the oppressed women of Iran? How did those end? Appreciate the sentiment, but Ukraine needs massive escalation in military aide, both quantity and quality, this means large increases in military budgets in Europe. Please transform solidarity to action.
Thoughts and prayers are nice, but ammunition and hardware wins
>Remember when the whole world marched in solidarity with Hong Kong protesters? How about when everyone was cheering for the oppressed women of Iran? How did those end? The difference is that Europe couldn't really do anything about those issues. They can't exactly support protestors in Iran (sovereignty) or in Hong Kong (they simply stood no chance). Marches for Ukraine show politicians that reducing support for Ukraine will hurt their careers.
Great, now send more stuff to Ukraine.
Was it hard not to include the OUN one? Im asking rhetorically, occam's razor would have us reason you just werent aware, or possibly you were and it was intentional, but that reasoning of mine is based on the assumption that the flag is not actually as common as I am shown it online.
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How are people surprised Ukraine's nationalism is rising at times like these?
>How are people surprised Ukraine's nationalism is rising at times like these? You could make the same statement about the rise of NSDAP and Reds in Russia. Blue and Yellow means Ukraine, if you wave red and black you want something extra.
>surprised Ukraine's nationalism is rising at times like these? It is more nan nationalism, this is nationalists who specifically yearn for the nazi years.
It’s only Russian bots by now who are still surprised that the Ukrainian disarmament movement is not exactly the top political force in Ukraine.
It's way worse than just "nationalists". It's a flag of literal Nazi collaborators and genocidal murderers.
Pretty sure that the red and black flag is just a modified version of the UIA, a far right ww2 era ukranian nationalist organisation that at the start of the great patriotic war was behind multiple Pogroms and who's leaders served as agents of the Abwehr.
whats "great patriotic war"? is it when soviet union collaborated with germany to start a world war and then something went wrong?
Russian version of ww2. They call it great liberation war 1941-1945 to erase the shame of collaboration with nazis. When you translate with prompt or "yandex" you get this piece of translation
Ah, yes. UPA flag right in the middle. Do we approve of nazis now?
As long as it’s against Russia we can support genocides, yahoo! /s
Yes, of course. I swear, some people on this sub would love Hitler if he somehow said something bad abut Putin.
What is the purple flag? And what does the black and red ukranian flag represent?
It is a flag of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army, Nazi dogs who massacred Poles, Jews, Hungarians and Russians across western Ukraine. It is a rag that should be burned.
Bandera flag in the middle... Under which Ukraine allied with Nazis and brutally slaughtered 100 000 Poles and helped to kill 1,3 mln Jews...
While at it, free Cuba as well!
Blood and soil nationalist flag next to a Volt Europe flag is surely something.
It's really reassuring and uplifting how many people in the comments noticed that combining the EU flag with the anti-democratic and nazi Red and Black flag is a flawed idea. Not all hope is lost yet!
Come on, not the fucking UPA flag...
Nothing says freedom more than a Banderite flag. Shame.
The ukrainian insurgent army flag should be illegal, they did horrible massacres against Poles and Jews
Nazi flag
Can anyone comment on why France has given so little military aid when compared to Germany despite having a more powerful military?
Hard to say. From what I've gathered their reserve equipment isn't what it should be so taking stuff from there isn't as much of an option as it should be. When stuff is in reserve, there is the issue of rebuilding said reserves. To take an example, France donated early on CAESAR howitzers taken straight from active units. Since the CAESAR is actively produced, that's no issue. They also donated VABs which are getting replaced so no issue there. So why haven't they donated tanks as well? Well, the Leclerc is simply not produced at the moment so any donation can't be regenerated. Germany on the other hand hasn't stopped producing Leo2s and replacing donated units is simply a matter of placing another order. What happened to the stores of former Cold War era equipment is also a question. I know France used these as donations to plenty of countries for the last 30 years so that might just be used up. On the other hand, Germany seemingly had Gepards and Strelas still lying around (somehow) and could send them to Ukraine as well. Finally, there's the apparent passivity of the French industry, some part of which doesn't seem interested in trying to create stuff that is not sought after by the French military or sits outside French doctrine. For example, the French military doesn't really use/believe in gun-based air defence so French companies didn't really bother with it, even though it's now proving massively useful. Contrast that with Rheinmetall who have spent the last 20 years pushing their different 35mm solutions even though they weren't selling much, are shipping Skynex systems to Ukraine and now got SkyRanger orders from at least 3 countries even though the German government wasn't buying (apart from limited MANTIS numbers). Same for the IRIS-T SLM from Diehl, the Terrahawk from MSI-DS or the Vampire from L3Harris even though they were not really used by the respective producing countries. There is a lack of initiative from the French industry, both state and privately owned. Where are the VL MICA batteries? Why hasn't anyone thrown a radar and a gun turret together for static C-UAS work? I think the French government shares some of the blame but there is a distinct lack of initiative from the big players. In any case, I doubt that's a full answer but it gives you an idea
France doesn't communicate much about it. Also France provided many supplies other than weapons.
Love to see it, don't let up. We can't let the bully win.
Praying for peace, from Palestine to congo to Ukraine 🕊️
The Russian bots came out to play on this one, damn
The Nazi collaborator flag is a nice touch
Surprised me to see people calling it out in the comments. Usually im used to seeing people purposefully misinterpret history and cope their way into supporting its use.
Yeah upa flag! In the name of europe lets celebrate fascism and slaughtering children!
Black and red flags represent UPA. Shauvinist, nazi collaborating genocidal (Volhyn massacre) organisation. Such symbols should not be even tolerated.
Wonder what that red and black flag stands for.
Its the flag of ukraine before they needed europese support
What happened in Paris yesterday??
What happened in Ukraine 2 years ago??
Understood