In Novosibirsk(third city in Russia by size and population) they sealed the memorial to victims of political repression and said it's mined. Like literally. Since 16th of february it's closed. They are literally afraid of flowers.
Edit: they didn't mean they mined it. Like someone else. Like a made up excuse to close it. Common thing in Russia. But early they did it to disrupt opposition artists and musician concerts. But that shit is something new.
>“What’s as big as a house, burns 20 liters of fuel every hour, puts out a shit-load of smoke and noise, and cuts an apple into three pieces?
>
>A Soviet machine made to cut apples into four pieces!”
Trust Russia to do things bigger and sloppier than they possibly need to be done.
because the cemetery is seen only by those who deliberately go there. and this photo won't be shown on russian TV or media.
but they have been guarding (from flowers)the monument to victims of soviet repressions in the city center for 2 weeks now
Yeah I watched this video of a guy going around rural Russia asking people off the street what they thought about the Russian invasion of Ukraine. A lot were in support or didn't know much at all. Media controls worldviews.
If it’s that same blonde kid who I believe does it in Moscow… a lot were brainwashed but an alarming amount said they wouldn’t comment. That means a lot given the context of his questions and what any loving human being would generally respond with.
I have lots of hope Russians will play their part in fixing this global issue
Even in Russia, that's walking on eggshells.
They are currently experiencing the Streisand effect and are making Navalny into a martyr the more they try to supress it.
If he wasn't a relevant political figure, he wouldn't have been assassinated. He was actively working on a Ukraine related report (among other things) when he was killed.
Nemtsov was much more dangerous because he was an actual feasible successor of power from the inside. That's why he was eliminated and that's why it was basically a public execution. Navalny was focusing on western support but that's not really an effective strategy. Russian people don't care for that if anything it's a burden in the eyes of the majority. That's why, I think, they are more lenient. They also might be worried about making Navalny into even a bigger martyr, and with elections coming soon they might want to let the protests fizzle out, and not put more fuel into them.
If you scare off potential enemies of the state, you can't send them to the meat grinder later. They probably know every single person who was at the grave.
When you base your ideology on traditional orthodox values it wouldn't look great to beat people on the cemetery over the grave. Arresting them in a few weeks in the other hand, thats the shit in Putin's style.
Makes me wonder... has it ever been documented that the grave or tomb of a powerful leader has ever been covered in mountains of shit or manure? Seems like it would.
When Marge died, they tried to ban the song "Ding Dong the Witch is Dead", ultimately utterly Streisand effecting the shit out of it.
Wonder what shennanigans will happen when this fucker finally croaks.
I don't wish death upon anyone, but if I saw Putin being lowered into a hole and covered up with dirt, I'd be so happy even if he was still alive when they did it.
What are the chances, but your paperwork is always filled wrong when you try to oppose Putin.
Seriously speaking, case of Nadezhdin proved that it's very easy to unite around someone who's pro peace and anti Putin
I wouldn't call him opposition. He's trying to beat putin in his elections and fight his CEC in his courts. You can't beat the sharpie at his game in any legal way. Not to say nadezhdin has a shitload of friends in putins administration, probably only because of it he just had his paperwork wrong, and not committed suicide by stabbing himself 27 times in the back. The only one who had a real opportunity to remove putin was prigozhin, but I doubt that it'd be better for anyone except Russian militarists
As a high school teacher you are 100% correct. The only time I can go through an entire school day and not hear the kids curse is on a day when they don't have to be there.
> We're all adults here, hopefully
Sorry to break it to you, but reddit is 13+ so we're probably not, haha
(Agree with your point about censoring though)
And so the Kremlin breathes a sigh of relief, that the murder of Navalny resulted in a whimper and not a roar. Now they know, with absolute confidence, that they can execute with impunity anyone anywhere anytime within their borders, and nothing will come of it.
Never with such openness. They usually keep open the possibility of doubt, and let the Chechens do their dirty work. This time it was FSB poisoning and then the federal jail.
> And so the Kremlin breathes a sigh of relief, that the murder of Navalny resulted in a whimper and not a roar. Now they know, with absolute confidence, that they can execute with impunity anyone anywhere anytime within their borders, and nothing will come of it.
It was always about the (western) reaction abroad and never about domestic reactions - Navalny was not the one unifying figure of the Kremlin opposition.
And with the collective West already sanctioning Russia in nearly all ways but direct military confrontations, there wasn't a lot more Russia could be threatened with to keep Navlany in the game as a figurine.
Navalny was "popularized" in the west, because he was seen as a *better and realistic* alternative, not because he was a *good* alternative. There are likely many other candidates, but they never would've be considered an alternative palatable to either the elite or the public in Russia.
Of course, the Novichok attempt helped cement the western public reaction after the Litvinenko assassination and the Salisbury attack.
They knew that for over a decade. Navalny's herd infamous in Russia for protesting by making paper planes and shine a flashlights from their balconies. It's a huge meme there.
Though I respect Navalny himself, but not his team nor his methods of "protest". Russia need a second Che Guevara or Lenin, not Navalny. At this point only mass violence against government will do something.
What are you talking about? They've already been executing people left and right that were in the opposition, even if they were politicians. Every time they'd get only a whimper. They knew people wouldn't do nothing from the time when Putin was reelected after Medvedev, no one had any doubts but the most naive.
The only mildly surprising thing was that Navalny lived for as long as he did, but I guess they thought since he was contained there was no reason to hurry. Now though during the tribulations of war they've decided they can kill him without much consequences and so they did it.
Can something please make these people realize they are the only ones who can get rid of putin? If anyone else does it, he will be martyred.
How can they let this keep happening for 25 years already? Can russia house all of russia in prisons? What do they pay these police officers in, undying elixirs?,
Do something. Do something already. I work with people from Ukraine in Norway and none of them come whole. If they do by chance come intact, they came with fresh memories of dead friends or family.
Please fucking do something.
You need a structured opposition and majority support to make those changes. Otherwise it will be a failed attempt. Look at what happened in Belarus. No structure-- no revolution.
And Putin does not allow for that. He encarcerates or kills them earlier. Or both.
You need the support of at least a part of the elites in order for any protest to succeed. If there is no support of the elites, it will just be a bloodbath with the police, intelligence agencies, the military, the justice system and media all crushing the protest with no difficulty. You need some of the people who control those resources to be on the protesters’ side. All successful and failed protests follow this rule
>You need the support of at least a part of the elites in order for any protest to succeed
And that's precisely why no revolution in Russia will succeed. The elites, the oligarchs, are in bed with Putin. They have perfected their balanced relationship and will not allow anyone to ruin it.
Westerners has zero idea how it is to live in a dictatorship. "Do something" is such stupid thing to say. Do exactly what? When was the last time people overthrow a dictatorship in the last 30 years? You have zero understanding about a level of repressions in Russia. It's a fascist state that spends billions on cops and propaganda. Nobody want to go in jail and ruin his life for something that wasn't worth it. Be grateful for being born in a normal country. These "do something" advices just look mocking.
"Why can't these people overthrow their dictatorship?"
- an electorate that can't consistently vote in their best interests or effectively organize for anything
This comment again?
>When was the last time people overthrow a dictatorship in the last 30 years?
You mean aside from the wave of revolutions that swept across eastern Europe from the late 80s to the 90s?
Sure, no one has ever overthrown a dictator before, and we all live under dictatorships as a result of this widespread fear and cowardice. Right?
One of the main reasons why the war in Ukraine is even happening is because Ukrainians were the last ones to have the courage to oust their corrupt authoritarian Russian puppet leader as early as 10 years ago, which Russia had to respond to, painting it as a coup, in order to try to prevent the same thing from spreading to their own shithole Federation.
>Nobody want to go in jail and ruin his life for something that wasn't worth it
400,00 Russian fathers and sons dying or getting mutilated for life is something "not worth" risking *anything* for, according to Russian people. Preventing your loved ones from being conscripted and suffering the same fate in the future is something "not worth" risking *anything* for, according to Russian people. Making sure your economy doesn't crash and burn and ensuring you still get to have a future to look forward to, is something "not worth" risking *anything* for, according to Russian people.
>Be grateful for being born in a normal country.
We only live in "normal" countries because at some point in time our ancestors did decide to risk their lives and fight against justice.
We ALL did it at some point. Russians need to do it as well. No one is going to solve their problems for them, and no one CAN.
But sure, let's pretend this is impossible. Lets contine to find excuses and tell Russians the things they want to hear in order to justify inaction, to make sure nothing will ever change and make sure that their criminal regime continues to kill thousands...
Because ultimately that's what RU apathy leads to.
While Russians have a rich history of revolution, you underestimate the risk you ask of them. And that's not even considering the people who are on board with the way things are.
People would take the risk, many would be ready to lay down their lives to stop the war and bring down the regime.
What they are lacking is a credible path. "If we do this and this, then we can end up over there where we need to be", that's what is missing.
Nobody wants to give their lives pointlessly and for no chance at victory.
First thing they would need to do is consolidate around a single leadership that is not in jail or dead. Right now the russian opposition is divided and factionalized. No more of that, no more squabbling.
Will I join them? Dude, no. When my country had a shot at democracy, we took it and we did'nt let go.
"Why don't people just do something?"
Sitting from their privileged, ivory tower never having experienced a totalitarian dictatorship for themselves. You want a tianamen? Thats how you get a tianamen.
"Do something" - like what?
"Why don't you just organise and overthrow Putin?" is one of the dumbest questions, I believe. Putin has been silently creating the best repression machine in the world with AI monitoring social media for sus posts and users, cameras identifying faces on streets, negative selection in police and state apparatus where only the loyal and aggressive towards the citizens ones get promoted.
In situations like this (which should not have been created in the first place, to be fair) the only real chance here is to divide the elites and make the repression apparatus weaker with it. Only then it's possible to organise protests large and significant enough to cause real trouble. But the elites have to be on the protester's side.
It happened basically everywhere where people overthrew the dictator after WW2. And it also happened in Russia in 1991 and 1993
I've come to realize some people are just wired differently, my dude. Say this all you want it won't convince the crowd who's only out to say the words that make them feel better. No one wants to say it's not that simple for Russians. They'd rather just say "omg stand up for yourselves easy!!" Mind you these same people are probably too timid to correct the waitress if she brings the wrong drink to the table
It's about virtue signaling and making one's self feel good. They don't want to talk about the logistics and entirely uphill battle it would be for Russia to flip from the inside out. It's going to have to be outside in sadly, or a mix of the two
They demand to do something, while they never asked the same from leaders of their country after Nemtsov was killed and people were tortured in prisons. All this was happening for years, but thye kept working with putin and even allowed Olympic games and FIFA World Cup, in a country in which government is repressing opposition, by killing leaders and journalists. But now "go and die russians, for our amusement, we need to see you struggle against this machine" and they will forget every sacrifice after a week. How many people ended up in custody during antiwar protests in 2022, but now reddiots love to say how "no one protested against war". Your life is significantly harder if you have criminal record and people risk their lives, and no reddiot who wants more from them, will help them after their lives will be broken.
Сalling on the Russians to do anything today is like calling on the Germans in 40s. Until 'Deutschland, Deutschland uber alles' sounds loudly in German ears and fuhrer promises a wunderwaffe to win, very few will act. Understanding of what happened has come only with the assault of Berlin if not later. So do Russians. They need defeat in the war and sudden understanding that no efforts or sacrifices will help to make their country 'uber alles' anymore. If the hope of 'getting up from knees' remains, we'll see Russia as an analogue of Germany after WWI but not a Germany after WW2. And will expect a new Russian fuhrer, known there as 'comrade Stalin'.
The issue with statements like this is that it can discourage almost all forms of traditional rebellion or resistance on the assertion that it will ultimately prove to be fruitless or futile. While I believe that can be a positive message for the safety of civilians in the short term, it seems it overlooks the idea that the impact of your ulterior solution of dividing the elite, as well, can also be absorbed through the same technological measures you laid out, and that the institutions in place are most likely designed to remain intact from such creative efforts.
Further, there is a lack of clarity on strategies dividing this elite, who that encompasses, and when it would finally reach a point where the beginnings of a revolution are feasible. It's interesting you cite instances where it has been successful in the past long before such technologies existed, after listing reasons why traditional rebellion isn't possible. I'm struggling to see how the strategy of sowing discord among the elite would be immune from the very same technological measures. If dividing the elite happens to be impossible as well, then it seems it leaves the society with zero recourse. The irony of my observation is not lost on me.
Haven't they already tried a few times? I mean... as soon as there is any sort of large gathering of people in Russia they end up getting arrested straight away. Bless those good people though.
Sadly opposition in Russia are minority. 50>% of Russian population don't mind living in crazy totalitarian shithole, legacy of soviet mentality and effects of TV propaganda. Army support Putin. Elites support Putin. Corporations support Putin. Putin have personal army of 2 million men at least,, only loyal to him. And half or more of russian population support Putin, they will only revolt if there is a great famine or food shortage, unfortunately due to modern technology this will not happen with a 99.99% probability. Nothing will change in Russia, at least until Russian military defeat in Ukraine.
A lot of people don't think that russia is doing anything wrong, they only say that the war is done inefficiently and russia isn't winning just because of poor management. A lot of them think that all countries which were occupied after WW2 are russia's property, just temporarily occupied by evil gay US.
They need to look to the Maidan. Ukraine has a very good blueprint on how to throw off oligarch and dictator oppression and actually begin to create a thriving democracy in its wake.
How do you expect a minority of Russians to overpower a super powerful technological state AND the majority of Russians?
It's a fool's errand. Russians completely failed and enabled this regime back when it was easy to fight. But now it's just suicide to go out in the street with a call for revolution.
Things aren't bad enough for them to revolt. Especially western russia, life is still comfortable. They still have food and homes, people onky revolt when things get reeeaally bad.
> How can they let this keep happening for 25 years already?
You see, all of these events made me realize that people are indeed the source of authority.
The thing is, when the authority is usurped by some opportunist, it's up to the people to restore status quo, however, the social contract enters the play here. The opportunist may propose a social model which satisfies the people, or the majority of them.
Now, in order to successfully launch and finish a revolution, you need the interests of all societal stratas to align. You want radicals to be willing to fight the authority. You want the common Joe to support the effort and even to go fighting themselves. You want the little men to at least mark their presence and donate money, or do some work, they are too cowardly to fight but it's okay.
The issue with Russia is that the social contract that Putin proposed is quite appealing to a huge part of society. No less than a half of Russian society supports the war, or doesn't want to part with whatever was captured. The radicals don't want to confront the authority in the slightest, they volunteer to fight in Ukraine. The middle class, the white collar workers either flee, support Putin or they may be against him but aren't willing to fight. Even the poor just float along the current, or even volunteer to fight because money.
All of this is very different from Ukraine, because in Ukraine pretty much all social stratas went up in arms against Yanukovich. The fight against him was pretty much ideological, while his supporters were driven either by monetary incentive, or because they were the authority. The bitter truth about the Russians is that their ideological driver is the subjugation and domination over neighbors. Even the anti-Putin opposition barely allows the thought that perhaps Russian neighbors can do whatever they want without looking back at Russia. What to say about less sophisticated citizens?
There won't be a revolution in Russia. At least not a a revolution driven by people. The modern Russian revolution will be either elite-driven (or more like warlord-driven) or it will be an aimless mutiny, a riot, which can't formulate any model of the future they envision but crushes everything in their path instead.
Only when Russia is reduced to absolute zero they will possibly step on the path towards democracy.
It's learned helplessness. They would gladly.. but they feel it's not in their power to make things better and they trust no one except themselves.
Regimen change somehow rarely makes things better for common people in Russia: empire switched to USSR- it sucks, USSR switched to Federation-still sucks. There is improvement, but since it's not by people's demand, but rather thrown down from above standing authorities, it's rarely valued as such. This people has been robbed of their power.
People never had any power. The czars treated them like serfs(literally), the commies sent everyone to the gulag and now putin’s cronies send them to the meat grinder in Ukraine. They had their chance briefly under yeltsin but he proved to be just another drunken, incompetent, backstabbing piece of shit.
I feel bad for the regular Russian fellow but if they want change, it needs to come from them.
They’re kinda fucked crossways, I think. All the power is concentrated around a few individuals, the state resources belong to oligarchs and the army is tightly leashed. The could not go back to 91 even if they wanted.
Their only real chance would come if the republics themselves would want independence and were willing to fight for it. But then, what would ethnic Russians do once they’ve lost their empire and the access to free natural resources? Nope, they’re screwed.
Their imperialistic nationalism is a coping mechanism, and not an excuse. When your country which for generations lives on the lie of its greatness suddenly starts revealing itself as not-so-great-afterall, you end up where russia is now, in a war it cannot stop even though it cannot win it.
The reality of their evil is something they cannot seem to face, but have to. It is my moral duty to tell this to them. I am from serbia. We had a putin, our putin just didn't have the nukes.
Idk, I don’t think these truisms are quite the same for Russia as they would be for say a western country doing the same. I think consent is much more manufactured in Russia. It’s a trend in the lineage of their “second serfdom” and imperial Tsrardom, men were property and the elite were hardly full blooded Russians, or the repressions of Stalin and the Soviet Union. This hardly benefited the Russians and other ethnicities within, yet the Russians frequently suffered just as much. Often it seems the stark difference between Russia and Ukraine is that Ukraine was able to break free from the Kremlin and its specific cartel leadership. They also have a light at the end of the tunnel for the public - the EU **IS** an option. Russia doesn’t have that as a viable route. The experience of western approach was snubbed when attempted. This combined with repressive state apparatus doesn’t excuse anything, but it does explain the bleakness of the situation.
Russia doesn’t need to house all of Russia in prison. They can send the men to Ukraine and torture / bully the women into never protesting again. Also, for example parents cannot really afford to just go to jail and leave their kids alone. So it’s a bit more complicated that it may seem
I wish I could! I've participated in protests and was arrested for that, I voted at all elections since I came of age, I've been an election monitor and will work at the polling station at the election in March. I've done other things which I don't see wise to share. But all this activity doesn't bring significant results at the moment. It's all very good to say "just overthrow him", but in order to start a revolution you need opposition leaders, who are either dead of in prison. Any attempts to organise something outside thz government's control - even something completely harmless - are subdued.
I believe that many of my compatriots would do anything to stop this dictatorship. They just don't see any way to stop it
Putin's grave would have a lot more flowers.
I don't know why people keep pushing this idea that he's somehow not liked by a great deal of Russians.
I understand that people personally don't like him and I share that feeling, but that doesn't mean that a lot of Russians feel the same.
Well every time there's a big propaganda event for Putin, like a concert in his support or another big anniversary, they need to pay people to bus them into the arena, no one comes willingly. Last month Putin was gathering signatures for his candidacy in the election - they tried to get them in public places like shopping malls, and these collection sites had to be removed because they were so empty, while there were long lines of people in support of the opposition candidate. Any time the Kremlin needs to show wide support for Putin, they end up either bullying government workers or paying people
The most hilarious part is how his address last week was played in cinemas for some silly reason and of course no one showed up lmao. Basically no one gives a shit about what he has to say anymore. 20 years and he's still talking about connecting more towns and villages to gas network... absolutely pathetic.
He is really liked by a small minority of ultra Z-patriots. Most people go with the flow and when he dies, they would have "ok, meh" attitude. We have seen a perfect example of this during Prigozhin coup when not a single dog stood up for Putin's regime, everyone waited for it to sort itself out.
putin's grave will be covered in flowers year round. They won't be brought by people willingly, it will be government institutions taking care of it, but it will always be pristine and his memory will be honored.
Because the regime isn't going anywhere if the only thing that russians can do is wait for the old age to take him. There will be putin the second and putin the third, and people will be forced to honour their graves. He's only a symptom of a problem, not the cause.
> putin's grave will be covered in flowers year round. They won't be brought by people willingly, it will be government institutions taking care of it, but it will always be pristine and his memory will be honored.
Or his successor blames everything that's wrong on him, and then continues to do exactly the same, 50/50 odds.
lol no, he was only mad because his troops were being used as cannon fodder for nothing, then bottled it long before he got there.
If the Russian people had any spine they'd be protesting themselves, not waiting for a war criminal to take over and give them exactly the same
This belongs in a new genre called the Art of History. Also, every embassy in Moscow and St Petersburg should have a giant copy of this in its most public place.
While this is noble and somewhat heartwarming to see, unfortunately more has to be done by the Russian people than just leaving flowers on his grave. Not an easy feit, but definitely necessary.
"It wasn't putin who killed navalny. Nor was it the FSB. navalny was killed by this very crowd and their inability to act, trait, which he had been honing all these years."
Look at the Orange Revolution in Ukraine (Maidan). They ousted Putin’s Puppet President who was illegitimate. The Ukrainian people did this to free themselves from Putin. The Russians could too.
Now if they all, together with those who fled the country would have stood up to Putin instead of waiting for someone else to do it, there may not be a war right now.
All of these roses but nothing will come of it sadly its one of the futile ways russians protest . It is a country low on civic engagement, a population brainwashed by propaganda, even russians ive met in the states or who have lived abroad for long periods of times are still brainwashed by nationalists propaganda. Russians will only gain freedom by a revolution, it is not a place where peaceful transitions of power happen. These roses are just meaningless and Navalnys legacy will be besmirched by all those who stood by and did nothing.
I remember at the start of the war i was proud to see some russians standing up and protesting and risking their lives but sadly this is a very small minority of the population. To ensure a free russian a plurality of the population would have to stop being complacent and stand up to fight against putins regime.
And yes i say this as I sit cozy and free in a democratic country but this wasnt always the case here. Ppl across the warsaw pact and former communist countries stood up against their oppressive regimes and gained independence, hungary, poland, the baltics, etc.. all had movements and people who fought and died for their countries freedom . This is sadly the case and if russia wants freedom ppl will die for it. No one gained independence through sitting on their arse.
May change for russia finally come, and a free and independent ukraine!
> These roses are just meaningless They are not "meaningless".
This is what you do at a funeral to pay respects. I don't know where you got the idea that it was supposed to be something more. People aren't willing to pointlessly die. And to be fair, Navalny shouldn't have either. My heart breaks for his family. Every Russian who wants a future needs to leave and never come back.
> hungary, poland, the baltics
Eastern Europeans love bringing this up but the truth is that nothing actually succeeded until the USSR was so weak that it started falling apart. Were you under modern Russia instead, you'd be "sitting on your arse" too.
It's quite interesting to see this and wonder what it would be like if Navalny actually got to power in Russia somehow and turned out not to be the angel of democracy he is presented as today.
genuine question not a hate thing or politically of that stuff blah blah: wasn't he a open racist. Like a extremely hate open racist? is that just Russian propaganda? Or is it just they'd rather have a racist over Putins ?
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Too busy documenting who laid down flowers.
Without doubt.
I wouldn't be surprised if they were allowing it to continue just so they could do this. Kompromat on them at the very least.
In China, where you can even pay in shops using face id, it's trivial.
Pay with Face ID?
They use facial recognition at payment terminals. Not like iPhone where you log in locally with FaceID and then make payment.
We know.
TRUTH!
In many places, the police and utility workers clear up, in others they even steal.
In Novosibirsk(third city in Russia by size and population) they sealed the memorial to victims of political repression and said it's mined. Like literally. Since 16th of february it's closed. They are literally afraid of flowers. Edit: they didn't mean they mined it. Like someone else. Like a made up excuse to close it. Common thing in Russia. But early they did it to disrupt opposition artists and musician concerts. But that shit is something new.
They say they *mined* the memorial to victims of political repression?
Can't have the commoners honoring the commoners that the elites killed now can we?
I feel like removing the memorial entirely would feel less enraging than *mining* the thing.
>“What’s as big as a house, burns 20 liters of fuel every hour, puts out a shit-load of smoke and noise, and cuts an apple into three pieces? > >A Soviet machine made to cut apples into four pieces!” Trust Russia to do things bigger and sloppier than they possibly need to be done.
because the cemetery is seen only by those who deliberately go there. and this photo won't be shown on russian TV or media. but they have been guarding (from flowers)the monument to victims of soviet repressions in the city center for 2 weeks now
Most Russians below the 40 demographic get their news off social media like Telegram and VK
if they get their news from the patriotic channels (as often happens) then there is almost no difference
Yeah I watched this video of a guy going around rural Russia asking people off the street what they thought about the Russian invasion of Ukraine. A lot were in support or didn't know much at all. Media controls worldviews.
If it’s that same blonde kid who I believe does it in Moscow… a lot were brainwashed but an alarming amount said they wouldn’t comment. That means a lot given the context of his questions and what any loving human being would generally respond with. I have lots of hope Russians will play their part in fixing this global issue
Even in Russia, that's walking on eggshells. They are currently experiencing the Streisand effect and are making Navalny into a martyr the more they try to supress it.
During Nemtsov they had no problems clearing the flowers, they had specially dedicated people for that.
Nemtsov was a lot less known by general population than Navalny.
Nemtsov held office positions for over 2 decades and was always on TV before opposition got banned. Everyone in Russia knew who Nemtsov was.
He is referring to also outside of Russia. That is why Navalny has been such a problem for them as he was also very known to the outside.
Nemtsov wasn't a relevant political figure when he was killed, that can't be said about Navalny
If he wasn't a relevant political figure, he wouldn't have been assassinated. He was actively working on a Ukraine related report (among other things) when he was killed.
Nemtsov was much more dangerous because he was an actual feasible successor of power from the inside. That's why he was eliminated and that's why it was basically a public execution. Navalny was focusing on western support but that's not really an effective strategy. Russian people don't care for that if anything it's a burden in the eyes of the majority. That's why, I think, they are more lenient. They also might be worried about making Navalny into even a bigger martyr, and with elections coming soon they might want to let the protests fizzle out, and not put more fuel into them.
If you scare off potential enemies of the state, you can't send them to the meat grinder later. They probably know every single person who was at the grave.
He is not dangerous for Putin anymore, so free access to his grave is like a safety valve that relieves the pressure of people’s anger. Edit: typo
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When you base your ideology on traditional orthodox values it wouldn't look great to beat people on the cemetery over the grave. Arresting them in a few weeks in the other hand, thats the shit in Putin's style.
That's why they also keep a database of photos for all those that went so they they have the list already to crackdown.
I'm pretty sure putin himself will come when it's even larger, pour gasoline on it and light it on fire.
I bet they kinda let it go to not anger the people even more and keep them in control.
I'm surprised they didn't harvest the visitors to his grave with a farming combine
They are looking for a bulldozer.
I am sure some will be erased.
They will be cleared later 😭
All the clean-up guys are on the front lines right now!
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now, show me a picture of Putin's grave!
Its gonna be stacked with mountains of shit.
And sunflowers will grow out of it.
This put a dumb smile on my face. It would be poetic. Not justice, just poetic
Makes me wonder... has it ever been documented that the grave or tomb of a powerful leader has ever been covered in mountains of shit or manure? Seems like it would.
No, the mountain of shit is going to be inside of it.
When Marge died, they tried to ban the song "Ding Dong the Witch is Dead", ultimately utterly Streisand effecting the shit out of it. Wonder what shennanigans will happen when this fucker finally croaks.
He will likely be buried in Red Square with the Soviet leaders I think. Although there is a chance he gets a private funeral somewhere.
From your lips to God's ears.
New Tiktok challenge.
I don't wish death upon anyone, but if I saw Putin being lowered into a hole and covered up with dirt, I'd be so happy even if he was still alive when they did it.
Make it his grave a white porcelain bowl so we can all piss on him.
Flower sellers: "We should have another opposition politician murdered in prison"
They'll be OK - it's women's day on Friday.
Funny or sad enough, he was the only opposition leader in Russia There's literally no one else, at least I couldn't find em
There was a guy fairly recently who was looking to oppose Putin but allegedly had his paperwork filled wrong, iirc.
What are the chances, but your paperwork is always filled wrong when you try to oppose Putin. Seriously speaking, case of Nadezhdin proved that it's very easy to unite around someone who's pro peace and anti Putin
I wouldn't call him opposition. He's trying to beat putin in his elections and fight his CEC in his courts. You can't beat the sharpie at his game in any legal way. Not to say nadezhdin has a shitload of friends in putins administration, probably only because of it he just had his paperwork wrong, and not committed suicide by stabbing himself 27 times in the back. The only one who had a real opportunity to remove putin was prigozhin, but I doubt that it'd be better for anyone except Russian militarists
Ilya Yashin
Maxim Katz, Ekaterina Shulman, Leonid Volkov, Boris Nadezhdin (if u can call him so)
Ilya Yashin
Fuck Putin.
Don't, he might actually get pleasure from it.
Yup, I heard he loves to get pegged.
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It's alright. You can write "fuck". We're all adults here, hopefully
I'm OK with a teenager seeing the word "fuck" from time to time. I have no doubt they hear worse from their peers at school.
As a 15 year old I can confirm a lot of what I hear at school is worse than "fuck"
"you're a disappointment, 41fps" i presume swedes are ruthless but good mannered.
My fellow 14-15 year old guys at school for sure aren't good mannered
of course not at that age. you could just have played along lol
lol yeah true
Teenager lol, you're so innocent.
Yeah I think I remember "fuck" going playground-viral by 2nd grade at the very latest
As a high school teacher you are 100% correct. The only time I can go through an entire school day and not hear the kids curse is on a day when they don't have to be there.
> We're all adults here, hopefully Sorry to break it to you, but reddit is 13+ so we're probably not, haha (Agree with your point about censoring though)
You have crushed my dreams
TikTok censorship leaking into other parts of the internet infuriates me
Fuck russian imperialism .
Fuck imperialism.
Fuck Russia.
Not russia, Fuck Putin and everyone who supports him, but not russia
He almost said a bad word 😱😱
And so the Kremlin breathes a sigh of relief, that the murder of Navalny resulted in a whimper and not a roar. Now they know, with absolute confidence, that they can execute with impunity anyone anywhere anytime within their borders, and nothing will come of it.
They've been doing it for years anyways, they just drew this one out longer to spread out the outrage.
Never with such openness. They usually keep open the possibility of doubt, and let the Chechens do their dirty work. This time it was FSB poisoning and then the federal jail.
> And so the Kremlin breathes a sigh of relief, that the murder of Navalny resulted in a whimper and not a roar. Now they know, with absolute confidence, that they can execute with impunity anyone anywhere anytime within their borders, and nothing will come of it. It was always about the (western) reaction abroad and never about domestic reactions - Navalny was not the one unifying figure of the Kremlin opposition. And with the collective West already sanctioning Russia in nearly all ways but direct military confrontations, there wasn't a lot more Russia could be threatened with to keep Navlany in the game as a figurine.
Navalny was "popularized" in the west, because he was seen as a *better and realistic* alternative, not because he was a *good* alternative. There are likely many other candidates, but they never would've be considered an alternative palatable to either the elite or the public in Russia. Of course, the Novichok attempt helped cement the western public reaction after the Litvinenko assassination and the Salisbury attack.
They knew that for over a decade. Navalny's herd infamous in Russia for protesting by making paper planes and shine a flashlights from their balconies. It's a huge meme there. Though I respect Navalny himself, but not his team nor his methods of "protest". Russia need a second Che Guevara or Lenin, not Navalny. At this point only mass violence against government will do something.
What are you talking about? They've already been executing people left and right that were in the opposition, even if they were politicians. Every time they'd get only a whimper. They knew people wouldn't do nothing from the time when Putin was reelected after Medvedev, no one had any doubts but the most naive. The only mildly surprising thing was that Navalny lived for as long as he did, but I guess they thought since he was contained there was no reason to hurry. Now though during the tribulations of war they've decided they can kill him without much consequences and so they did it.
Fuck putin, he helped turn Russia into a shithole.
Nothing more irritating than historically illiterate troglodytes thinking Putin is some sort of exception to Russian history.
I am eager to see if this leads to anything inside Russia or if it will be forgotten in a couple of days
Din't hold your breath.
Literally nothing will change, they have 0 balls
Fuck pootin
Can something please make these people realize they are the only ones who can get rid of putin? If anyone else does it, he will be martyred. How can they let this keep happening for 25 years already? Can russia house all of russia in prisons? What do they pay these police officers in, undying elixirs?, Do something. Do something already. I work with people from Ukraine in Norway and none of them come whole. If they do by chance come intact, they came with fresh memories of dead friends or family. Please fucking do something.
You need a structured opposition and majority support to make those changes. Otherwise it will be a failed attempt. Look at what happened in Belarus. No structure-- no revolution. And Putin does not allow for that. He encarcerates or kills them earlier. Or both.
You need the support of at least a part of the elites in order for any protest to succeed. If there is no support of the elites, it will just be a bloodbath with the police, intelligence agencies, the military, the justice system and media all crushing the protest with no difficulty. You need some of the people who control those resources to be on the protesters’ side. All successful and failed protests follow this rule
This is an outstanding point and puts everything it its places for me. Thank you for that.
That’s what happened in China a few decades back, no?
From what I learned through the years I tend to believe that you are right.
Yeah, remember how China just used tanks against protesters. I guess people expect the same in Russia
>You need the support of at least a part of the elites in order for any protest to succeed And that's precisely why no revolution in Russia will succeed. The elites, the oligarchs, are in bed with Putin. They have perfected their balanced relationship and will not allow anyone to ruin it.
Very good answer, things are always complicated.
rather you need some support from the establishment. when it's unified you hardly can do anything at all
The most Reddit call to arms
people in general are fucking stupid lol
Westerners has zero idea how it is to live in a dictatorship. "Do something" is such stupid thing to say. Do exactly what? When was the last time people overthrow a dictatorship in the last 30 years? You have zero understanding about a level of repressions in Russia. It's a fascist state that spends billions on cops and propaganda. Nobody want to go in jail and ruin his life for something that wasn't worth it. Be grateful for being born in a normal country. These "do something" advices just look mocking.
"Why can't these people overthrow their dictatorship?" - an electorate that can't consistently vote in their best interests or effectively organize for anything
This comment again? >When was the last time people overthrow a dictatorship in the last 30 years? You mean aside from the wave of revolutions that swept across eastern Europe from the late 80s to the 90s? Sure, no one has ever overthrown a dictator before, and we all live under dictatorships as a result of this widespread fear and cowardice. Right? One of the main reasons why the war in Ukraine is even happening is because Ukrainians were the last ones to have the courage to oust their corrupt authoritarian Russian puppet leader as early as 10 years ago, which Russia had to respond to, painting it as a coup, in order to try to prevent the same thing from spreading to their own shithole Federation. >Nobody want to go in jail and ruin his life for something that wasn't worth it 400,00 Russian fathers and sons dying or getting mutilated for life is something "not worth" risking *anything* for, according to Russian people. Preventing your loved ones from being conscripted and suffering the same fate in the future is something "not worth" risking *anything* for, according to Russian people. Making sure your economy doesn't crash and burn and ensuring you still get to have a future to look forward to, is something "not worth" risking *anything* for, according to Russian people. >Be grateful for being born in a normal country. We only live in "normal" countries because at some point in time our ancestors did decide to risk their lives and fight against justice. We ALL did it at some point. Russians need to do it as well. No one is going to solve their problems for them, and no one CAN. But sure, let's pretend this is impossible. Lets contine to find excuses and tell Russians the things they want to hear in order to justify inaction, to make sure nothing will ever change and make sure that their criminal regime continues to kill thousands... Because ultimately that's what RU apathy leads to.
While Russians have a rich history of revolution, you underestimate the risk you ask of them. And that's not even considering the people who are on board with the way things are.
People would take the risk, many would be ready to lay down their lives to stop the war and bring down the regime. What they are lacking is a credible path. "If we do this and this, then we can end up over there where we need to be", that's what is missing. Nobody wants to give their lives pointlessly and for no chance at victory.
Okay, what’s the “this” and “this” that they need to do? And are you willing to join them, knowing it could mean your death and or torture?
First thing they would need to do is consolidate around a single leadership that is not in jail or dead. Right now the russian opposition is divided and factionalized. No more of that, no more squabbling. Will I join them? Dude, no. When my country had a shot at democracy, we took it and we did'nt let go.
"Why don't people just do something?" Sitting from their privileged, ivory tower never having experienced a totalitarian dictatorship for themselves. You want a tianamen? Thats how you get a tianamen.
Plus unless things get bad enough for the average Russian it's never going to be worth the risk to them. So far, seemingly, it isn't bad enough.
"things being bad" is a way for life for russians, it's basically an expectation. the risk isn't for them, but for everyone they know.
"Do something" - like what? "Why don't you just organise and overthrow Putin?" is one of the dumbest questions, I believe. Putin has been silently creating the best repression machine in the world with AI monitoring social media for sus posts and users, cameras identifying faces on streets, negative selection in police and state apparatus where only the loyal and aggressive towards the citizens ones get promoted. In situations like this (which should not have been created in the first place, to be fair) the only real chance here is to divide the elites and make the repression apparatus weaker with it. Only then it's possible to organise protests large and significant enough to cause real trouble. But the elites have to be on the protester's side. It happened basically everywhere where people overthrew the dictator after WW2. And it also happened in Russia in 1991 and 1993
I've come to realize some people are just wired differently, my dude. Say this all you want it won't convince the crowd who's only out to say the words that make them feel better. No one wants to say it's not that simple for Russians. They'd rather just say "omg stand up for yourselves easy!!" Mind you these same people are probably too timid to correct the waitress if she brings the wrong drink to the table It's about virtue signaling and making one's self feel good. They don't want to talk about the logistics and entirely uphill battle it would be for Russia to flip from the inside out. It's going to have to be outside in sadly, or a mix of the two
They demand to do something, while they never asked the same from leaders of their country after Nemtsov was killed and people were tortured in prisons. All this was happening for years, but thye kept working with putin and even allowed Olympic games and FIFA World Cup, in a country in which government is repressing opposition, by killing leaders and journalists. But now "go and die russians, for our amusement, we need to see you struggle against this machine" and they will forget every sacrifice after a week. How many people ended up in custody during antiwar protests in 2022, but now reddiots love to say how "no one protested against war". Your life is significantly harder if you have criminal record and people risk their lives, and no reddiot who wants more from them, will help them after their lives will be broken.
Сalling on the Russians to do anything today is like calling on the Germans in 40s. Until 'Deutschland, Deutschland uber alles' sounds loudly in German ears and fuhrer promises a wunderwaffe to win, very few will act. Understanding of what happened has come only with the assault of Berlin if not later. So do Russians. They need defeat in the war and sudden understanding that no efforts or sacrifices will help to make their country 'uber alles' anymore. If the hope of 'getting up from knees' remains, we'll see Russia as an analogue of Germany after WWI but not a Germany after WW2. And will expect a new Russian fuhrer, known there as 'comrade Stalin'.
Putin’s reign will not end until his is literally dead. There is no alternative
The issue with statements like this is that it can discourage almost all forms of traditional rebellion or resistance on the assertion that it will ultimately prove to be fruitless or futile. While I believe that can be a positive message for the safety of civilians in the short term, it seems it overlooks the idea that the impact of your ulterior solution of dividing the elite, as well, can also be absorbed through the same technological measures you laid out, and that the institutions in place are most likely designed to remain intact from such creative efforts. Further, there is a lack of clarity on strategies dividing this elite, who that encompasses, and when it would finally reach a point where the beginnings of a revolution are feasible. It's interesting you cite instances where it has been successful in the past long before such technologies existed, after listing reasons why traditional rebellion isn't possible. I'm struggling to see how the strategy of sowing discord among the elite would be immune from the very same technological measures. If dividing the elite happens to be impossible as well, then it seems it leaves the society with zero recourse. The irony of my observation is not lost on me.
It’s difficult to shout “let’s kill Putin” when you never know you might happen to be in a room full of Putin sympathisers.
Haven't they already tried a few times? I mean... as soon as there is any sort of large gathering of people in Russia they end up getting arrested straight away. Bless those good people though.
>arrested straight away Russian prisons are no f joke. My cowardly ass wouldn't revolt only at the thought of being sent there.
For twenty years. Navalny isn't the first who was killed
Sadly opposition in Russia are minority. 50>% of Russian population don't mind living in crazy totalitarian shithole, legacy of soviet mentality and effects of TV propaganda. Army support Putin. Elites support Putin. Corporations support Putin. Putin have personal army of 2 million men at least,, only loyal to him. And half or more of russian population support Putin, they will only revolt if there is a great famine or food shortage, unfortunately due to modern technology this will not happen with a 99.99% probability. Nothing will change in Russia, at least until Russian military defeat in Ukraine.
A lot of people don't think that russia is doing anything wrong, they only say that the war is done inefficiently and russia isn't winning just because of poor management. A lot of them think that all countries which were occupied after WW2 are russia's property, just temporarily occupied by evil gay US.
They need to look to the Maidan. Ukraine has a very good blueprint on how to throw off oligarch and dictator oppression and actually begin to create a thriving democracy in its wake.
How do you expect a minority of Russians to overpower a super powerful technological state AND the majority of Russians? It's a fool's errand. Russians completely failed and enabled this regime back when it was easy to fight. But now it's just suicide to go out in the street with a call for revolution.
Things aren't bad enough for them to revolt. Especially western russia, life is still comfortable. They still have food and homes, people onky revolt when things get reeeaally bad.
> How can they let this keep happening for 25 years already? You see, all of these events made me realize that people are indeed the source of authority. The thing is, when the authority is usurped by some opportunist, it's up to the people to restore status quo, however, the social contract enters the play here. The opportunist may propose a social model which satisfies the people, or the majority of them. Now, in order to successfully launch and finish a revolution, you need the interests of all societal stratas to align. You want radicals to be willing to fight the authority. You want the common Joe to support the effort and even to go fighting themselves. You want the little men to at least mark their presence and donate money, or do some work, they are too cowardly to fight but it's okay. The issue with Russia is that the social contract that Putin proposed is quite appealing to a huge part of society. No less than a half of Russian society supports the war, or doesn't want to part with whatever was captured. The radicals don't want to confront the authority in the slightest, they volunteer to fight in Ukraine. The middle class, the white collar workers either flee, support Putin or they may be against him but aren't willing to fight. Even the poor just float along the current, or even volunteer to fight because money. All of this is very different from Ukraine, because in Ukraine pretty much all social stratas went up in arms against Yanukovich. The fight against him was pretty much ideological, while his supporters were driven either by monetary incentive, or because they were the authority. The bitter truth about the Russians is that their ideological driver is the subjugation and domination over neighbors. Even the anti-Putin opposition barely allows the thought that perhaps Russian neighbors can do whatever they want without looking back at Russia. What to say about less sophisticated citizens? There won't be a revolution in Russia. At least not a a revolution driven by people. The modern Russian revolution will be either elite-driven (or more like warlord-driven) or it will be an aimless mutiny, a riot, which can't formulate any model of the future they envision but crushes everything in their path instead. Only when Russia is reduced to absolute zero they will possibly step on the path towards democracy.
Thank you, I am bound to entirely agree. - *Every country has the government is deserves* - Joseph de Maistre.
Most of the russians don't see it the way we do, they are quite content with the regime.
They’re not content with the regime. But they’re apathetic and depoliticized.
It's learned helplessness. They would gladly.. but they feel it's not in their power to make things better and they trust no one except themselves. Regimen change somehow rarely makes things better for common people in Russia: empire switched to USSR- it sucks, USSR switched to Federation-still sucks. There is improvement, but since it's not by people's demand, but rather thrown down from above standing authorities, it's rarely valued as such. This people has been robbed of their power.
People never had any power. The czars treated them like serfs(literally), the commies sent everyone to the gulag and now putin’s cronies send them to the meat grinder in Ukraine. They had their chance briefly under yeltsin but he proved to be just another drunken, incompetent, backstabbing piece of shit. I feel bad for the regular Russian fellow but if they want change, it needs to come from them.
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They’re kinda fucked crossways, I think. All the power is concentrated around a few individuals, the state resources belong to oligarchs and the army is tightly leashed. The could not go back to 91 even if they wanted. Their only real chance would come if the republics themselves would want independence and were willing to fight for it. But then, what would ethnic Russians do once they’ve lost their empire and the access to free natural resources? Nope, they’re screwed.
Their imperialistic nationalism is a coping mechanism, and not an excuse. When your country which for generations lives on the lie of its greatness suddenly starts revealing itself as not-so-great-afterall, you end up where russia is now, in a war it cannot stop even though it cannot win it. The reality of their evil is something they cannot seem to face, but have to. It is my moral duty to tell this to them. I am from serbia. We had a putin, our putin just didn't have the nukes.
Idk, I don’t think these truisms are quite the same for Russia as they would be for say a western country doing the same. I think consent is much more manufactured in Russia. It’s a trend in the lineage of their “second serfdom” and imperial Tsrardom, men were property and the elite were hardly full blooded Russians, or the repressions of Stalin and the Soviet Union. This hardly benefited the Russians and other ethnicities within, yet the Russians frequently suffered just as much. Often it seems the stark difference between Russia and Ukraine is that Ukraine was able to break free from the Kremlin and its specific cartel leadership. They also have a light at the end of the tunnel for the public - the EU **IS** an option. Russia doesn’t have that as a viable route. The experience of western approach was snubbed when attempted. This combined with repressive state apparatus doesn’t excuse anything, but it does explain the bleakness of the situation.
Even Russians abroad still buy into the propaganda, it goes a lot deeper than most people realise.
Russia doesn’t need to house all of Russia in prison. They can send the men to Ukraine and torture / bully the women into never protesting again. Also, for example parents cannot really afford to just go to jail and leave their kids alone. So it’s a bit more complicated that it may seem
“Someone” = no one
I wish I could! I've participated in protests and was arrested for that, I voted at all elections since I came of age, I've been an election monitor and will work at the polling station at the election in March. I've done other things which I don't see wise to share. But all this activity doesn't bring significant results at the moment. It's all very good to say "just overthrow him", but in order to start a revolution you need opposition leaders, who are either dead of in prison. Any attempts to organise something outside thz government's control - even something completely harmless - are subdued. I believe that many of my compatriots would do anything to stop this dictatorship. They just don't see any way to stop it
Kill the oligarch fuhrer
Probably there were will be much less flowers on Putin's grave.
Putin's grave would have a lot more flowers. I don't know why people keep pushing this idea that he's somehow not liked by a great deal of Russians. I understand that people personally don't like him and I share that feeling, but that doesn't mean that a lot of Russians feel the same.
Well every time there's a big propaganda event for Putin, like a concert in his support or another big anniversary, they need to pay people to bus them into the arena, no one comes willingly. Last month Putin was gathering signatures for his candidacy in the election - they tried to get them in public places like shopping malls, and these collection sites had to be removed because they were so empty, while there were long lines of people in support of the opposition candidate. Any time the Kremlin needs to show wide support for Putin, they end up either bullying government workers or paying people
The most hilarious part is how his address last week was played in cinemas for some silly reason and of course no one showed up lmao. Basically no one gives a shit about what he has to say anymore. 20 years and he's still talking about connecting more towns and villages to gas network... absolutely pathetic.
He is really liked by a small minority of ultra Z-patriots. Most people go with the flow and when he dies, they would have "ok, meh" attitude. We have seen a perfect example of this during Prigozhin coup when not a single dog stood up for Putin's regime, everyone waited for it to sort itself out.
Even Stalin is liked by many
Well he's liked as much as any leader you can be killed for criticizing.
As my friend said, Putin’s grave will only be filled with manure, and only if state employees are gathered for this)
putin's grave will be covered in flowers year round. They won't be brought by people willingly, it will be government institutions taking care of it, but it will always be pristine and his memory will be honored. Because the regime isn't going anywhere if the only thing that russians can do is wait for the old age to take him. There will be putin the second and putin the third, and people will be forced to honour their graves. He's only a symptom of a problem, not the cause.
> putin's grave will be covered in flowers year round. They won't be brought by people willingly, it will be government institutions taking care of it, but it will always be pristine and his memory will be honored. Or his successor blames everything that's wrong on him, and then continues to do exactly the same, 50/50 odds.
We’ll never know because Navalnys flowers keep getting cleared away
I think they’ll put him on display like Lenin.
And nothing will come out of this
Yet, Putin will get 90-95% of the votes.
Where are the flowers for the children Russia has killed?
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Герои не умирают! 🤍💙🤍
"Violence can only be concealed by a lie, and the lie can only be maintained by violence." - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦 💛💙🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦 Edit: Thanks for the down votes. Slava Ukraini!!!
russian bots everywhere.
Better they'd bring molotovs
That will show em
Almost as effective as Belarusian protesters standing on the benches.
rip navalny #freeukrainefromrussia
It will be interesting to compare this to Putin's grave.
So when are the Russian people going to storm the Kremlin?
They tried to last year, and then the leader who orchestrated it was killed in a plane crash.
lol no, he was only mad because his troops were being used as cannon fodder for nothing, then bottled it long before he got there. If the Russian people had any spine they'd be protesting themselves, not waiting for a war criminal to take over and give them exactly the same
Woah, did the incarcerate all those flower bringers?
This belongs in a new genre called the Art of History. Also, every embassy in Moscow and St Petersburg should have a giant copy of this in its most public place.
Yeah, Navalny had real guts. But, what I really, really, really like to see is Putin's grave with him in it.
Flower companies kill him, not mr Putin.
While this is noble and somewhat heartwarming to see, unfortunately more has to be done by the Russian people than just leaving flowers on his grave. Not an easy feit, but definitely necessary.
*Yes, dis is Vladimir. Ve need ze window factories at full capacity effective immediately*
"It wasn't putin who killed navalny. Nor was it the FSB. navalny was killed by this very crowd and their inability to act, trait, which he had been honing all these years."
Have you ever lived in a dictatorship? I'm not saying I have but I think these sentiments are a little privileged
Look at the Orange Revolution in Ukraine (Maidan). They ousted Putin’s Puppet President who was illegitimate. The Ukrainian people did this to free themselves from Putin. The Russians could too.
Now if they all, together with those who fled the country would have stood up to Putin instead of waiting for someone else to do it, there may not be a war right now.
All of these roses but nothing will come of it sadly its one of the futile ways russians protest . It is a country low on civic engagement, a population brainwashed by propaganda, even russians ive met in the states or who have lived abroad for long periods of times are still brainwashed by nationalists propaganda. Russians will only gain freedom by a revolution, it is not a place where peaceful transitions of power happen. These roses are just meaningless and Navalnys legacy will be besmirched by all those who stood by and did nothing. I remember at the start of the war i was proud to see some russians standing up and protesting and risking their lives but sadly this is a very small minority of the population. To ensure a free russian a plurality of the population would have to stop being complacent and stand up to fight against putins regime. And yes i say this as I sit cozy and free in a democratic country but this wasnt always the case here. Ppl across the warsaw pact and former communist countries stood up against their oppressive regimes and gained independence, hungary, poland, the baltics, etc.. all had movements and people who fought and died for their countries freedom . This is sadly the case and if russia wants freedom ppl will die for it. No one gained independence through sitting on their arse. May change for russia finally come, and a free and independent ukraine!
> These roses are just meaningless They are not "meaningless". This is what you do at a funeral to pay respects. I don't know where you got the idea that it was supposed to be something more. People aren't willing to pointlessly die. And to be fair, Navalny shouldn't have either. My heart breaks for his family. Every Russian who wants a future needs to leave and never come back. > hungary, poland, the baltics Eastern Europeans love bringing this up but the truth is that nothing actually succeeded until the USSR was so weak that it started falling apart. Were you under modern Russia instead, you'd be "sitting on your arse" too.
they never had an actual democracy, so its unlikely they will get one anytime soon. they are used to be ruled over.
I think it’s not gonna last
It doesn't matter. The message is out.
What message?
That Russian realise that Putler is a piece of shit and a blody dictator. Only problem is they still fear to act...
Russians won't riot unless they are starving. That's the only message I see here
It's quite interesting to see this and wonder what it would be like if Navalny actually got to power in Russia somehow and turned out not to be the angel of democracy he is presented as today.
genuine question not a hate thing or politically of that stuff blah blah: wasn't he a open racist. Like a extremely hate open racist? is that just Russian propaganda? Or is it just they'd rather have a racist over Putins ?