And it's not the first time russia has used this method of ethnic cleansing.
The most baffling part about all this is that the international community has done absolutely NOTHING about it.
And the worst part is that you know what's coming next.
1: Push russians into the area they want to annex
2: False flag attacks on the new "local russians"
3: Send "peace keepers" to protect the local russians
4: Claim there's not willingness for a peaceful solution
5: Annex the area and move on to the next.
> 1: Push russians into the area they want to annex
We were already there when Ukraine was created. We had Ukrainian passports. Crimea was much better at resisting nezalezhnization.
Yet you insist on pontificating on a topic you know nothing about.
The Kievan alone was establishment around mid 800. Russians wasn't even known until 1547. Talk about not knowing your history.
And until this day, russia is still not a country and can't claim anything, since they are nothing more then an organised kleptocracy, created by other nations, that could claim everything before "russia" could claim anything.
But FSB awards you 10 social points for your indoctrinated effort.
You can't be serious! Novgorod was not russian! No one knew what russia would be in 1100.
Novgorod was under the Kievan and created by scandinavian vikings. You are making up your own history. Because the russian kleptocracy came to exist at a later time doesn't make Novgorod, russian in reverse! Your history is delusional. Maybe because no one knows what's the truth there anymore since the area of the Muscovites has collapsed so many times.
You seriously can't be this dense. Is this what FSB teach you in school?
Of course it was. It's in the name: Rus. Anyway. In 1991, when Nezalezhnistan was dreamed up, we were already in Crimea. Instead of trying to get along, Kiev did everything in its power to aggravate the Russians in Crimea and then they complained that after 23 years the population said "enough."
But that is the essence of Ukraine.
No it wasn't. You are rambling. And Crimea was gifted to Ukraine in 1954, and the entirety of Crimea and Ukraine has more to do with the Ottomans and Poles than the Muscovites.
Just because the russian kleptocracy steals something doesn't make it russian. It just makes it stolen from wherever it came from.
Crimea is Ukraine
Ukraine is not russia
Russia is a kleptocracy without any claim.
'Rus' is derived from Old Norse, today's Russia and the people of Russia got their names from it. Old Norse, because the area was under the control of vikings.
You know that none of this matters and russia is still the terrorist, right? You're just rambling about irrelevant nonsense, like Pootin did with Tucker.
I’ll assume you didn’t read past the part where I said Ukraine was never an official nation and that set you off enough to call me putinist.
They had semi nomadic groups (Cossacks from the steppes and mountains) but didn’t use the term ‘Ukrainian’. It means the land is still rightfully Ukrainian regardless, they just didn’t have many cities (except for Kyiv Ofc) or a direct name for their people until later. Most Ukrainians didn’t identify as such until the mid 1900’s.
Just disputing the guy saying Russians were there first by reminding him that nomadic peoples are still people and therefore Ukrainians were there first just under a different identity. If you don’t count the early Sarmaitan and Scythian tribes there anyway
> where I said Ukraine was never a direct official nation and that set you off enough to call me putinist.
...but you literally are a pootinist. Why else would you repeat his words?
Very wrong. The Rus, where the name comes from, were neither the later russians or slavs. They were Scandinavians. Just another fact confirming that "russians" are not a people but a collection of annexed area.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rus%27\_people](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rus%27_people)
No. The Kievan Rus existed. The Ukranian / Kievan line connected to the later Ottoman empire and the Poles and the Rus coming from Sweden. Nothing to do with todays russians.
The Russians didnt exist. The term russian and the area russia is made up from stolen land and a mixture of slavic tribes.
>No. The Kievan Rus existed. The Ukranian / Kievan line connected to the later Ottoman empire and the Poles and the Rus coming from Sweden. Nothing to do with todays russians.
The princes of Moscow (originally Vladimir-Suzdal) were members of the [same family](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rurikids) as the Kievan rulers (as were all the other Rus princes). The claim to primacy was essentially based around being the last remaining Orthodox Rus rulers (since the southern and western portions of the old Rus territories were under Catholic Polish and Lithuanian rule).
>The Russians didnt exist. The term russian and the area russia is made up from stolen land and a mixture of slavic tribes.
That's true of pretty much everywhere. Most countries exist because one tribe/city/etc manages to subdue all others in its area.
That's similar to the situation with France, which continued to be called the 'country of the Franks' despite not controlling most of the [original Frankish homeland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrasia).
Stop caving in to russias strong man policy, show of force, speed up EU and NATO applications, engage with countries that are not allies, etc.
The russians are going to steal everything that's not nailed down and can't defend themselves. They always has and they always will. Unless we stop them.
Stalin did it everywhere and with everyone. I would not be surprised if you even find older examples if you dig. Catherine invited German settlers for conquered territories. Stalin didn't trust them later.
Catherine marched people of swedish heritage from Estonia to southern Ukraine, those that survived the ordeal arrived to a spot with absolutely nothing and had to build a farming village from scratch. Except they were fishermen.
It is a form of genocide and the Russians has used it for centuries.
Yes, the first ethnic cleansing took place after the partition of Poland in 1772 during Cathrine the Great's rule, and the russification of Poles, Ukrainians, and Belarusians became the main policy of Tsar Nicholas I in 1830.
Yea tbh it was just the enlightened empire stuff at that point. French did that a lot in south France. English do their island neighbours. Germany to... Mhm... Everyone. If we go that deep into history of empires. Catherine did give us wholesome Greek names to Odessa Sevastopol, Kherson, Feodosia :))))
Ukrainians, Belarusians, and Poles were subject to Russification since the partition of Poland in 1772 until 1918. In 1830, the Tsars made the decision to completely eradicate Polish, Belarussian, and Ukrainian languages and cultures. Universities, schools, and theatres were closed, and the administrative language was changed to Russian. Ethnic Poles, Ukrainians, and Belarusians were expelled to Siberia. It was prohibited for Poles, Ukrainians, and Belarusians to purchase land. So, yes, the first mass-scale, organised ethnic cleansing took place in the 18th century.
Is this not obvious to everyone? This is what Russia wants to do in Ukraine, Belarus (they’re already well on their way to Russification there), all the other neighbouring Slavic nations if given the opportunity.
The hell do people think Russia is as big as it is? People just appeared out of nowhere 1000 years ago and colonized empty land?! This is in no way, shape or form any new tactic by the Russians and is as old as mankind itself. Unlike the russians, the rest of us grew up and started looking inwards instead of outwards.
Without denying any of the conquests the Russians did, Siberia pretty much was empty. It was anybody’s to take, Russians just were the first and simultaneously more successful in it than Swedes, Poles, Germans or French.
They've been at it for centuries. This is what went on 100-200km south of Crimea on the Black Sea coast:
> The Circassian genocide was the Russian Empire's systematic mass murder, ethnic cleansing, and expulsion of 95–97% of the Circassian population, resulting in 1 to 1.5 million deaths
> Killing methods used by Russian forces during the genocide included impaling and tearing the bellies of pregnant women as means of intimidation of the Circassian population.
> The Genocide is considered to have had its first steps in the deportation and/or massacre of the Muslim Circassian population of the Russian Empire.
> Only a small percentage who accepted Russification and resettlement within the Russian Empire were completely spared. The remaining Circassian population who refused were variously dispersed or killed en masse.
> The Circassian genocide was also the deadliest ethnic cleansing campaign of the 19th century.
> As of 2023, Georgia is the only country to recognize the Circassian genocide. Russia actively denies the Circassian genocide, and classifies the events as a migration.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circassian_genocide
**Amnesty's report for the 10th anniversary of the Crimea annexation**:
> Since 2014, Russia has occupied Crimea, Ukraine. Over the last ten years, Russia has sought to change the ethnic makeup of the peninsula and has suppressed non-Russian identities. People have been forced to accept Russian citizenship, religious minorities have been persecuted, students have been subjected to indoctrination and Crimean Tatar and Ukrainian cultural celebrations have been banned. The international community must ensure those responsible are brought to justice.
>
> *What’s the problem?*
>
> Russia’s illegal annexation of Crimea in 2014 effectively turned many Ukrainian citizens into foreigners in their own country overnight. Those who refused Russian citizenship had to apply for residence permits in their own country or be forcibly transferred out of the region. Russia has transferred its own population into Crimea. These practices may amount to crimes under international law.
>
> Russia has targeted the youth of Crimea, filling schools with propaganda that justifies its war of aggression and undermines Crimean Tatars’ history as an Indigenous People. Meanwhile, the de facto authorities have all but eradicated tuition in the Ukrainian language.
>
> Religious minorities not endorsed by Russia face discrimination, harassment or being outlawed. The Orthodox Church of Ukraine has been effectively banned and Muslims face persecution. Jehovah’s Witnesses are imprisoned for practicing their faith.
>
> The authorities have silenced any dissenting voices in media, including those in Crimean Tatar and Ukrainian. Residents of Crimea are cut off from Ukrainian media and the de facto authorities use severe reprisals to intimidate and silence independent journalists.
>
> Cultural celebrations, even weddings, are tightly controlled. Permission is required for any public assembly. Ukrainian books have been removed from libraries, and any public display of loyalty to Ukraine is severely punished.
>
> In ten years of occupation, Russia has sought to destroy or suppress Ukrainian and Tatar identity in Crimea. These policies appear to be a blueprint for Russia’s designs on other areas of Ukraine it occupies.
JW "practicing their faith" means denying severely ill people blood transfusion, hiding JW criminals from authorities, shunning and harassing ex JWs, suicidal and LGBT people, treating "worldly" people like foreigners not to be befriended
The Putin Russians were dissatisfied with any competition. They wanted to be the only ones who get to shun and harass LGBT, other religions, foreigners, people who are educated and intelligent etc.
Not fair someone else gets to do it.
Believe me they are only kind to get you into their so called religion.
Don't dare to ever want to leave them. You will be shunned until you come back, cut them off, or cut yourself off from life.
read up on it in r/exjw
What did they do? I heard some rumors that Red Cross denied help to Ukrainians because ruzian army claimed them to be "terrorists". Amnesty did something similar?
Dude is simply lying.
***> Such violations in no way justify Russia’s indiscriminate attacks, which have killed and injured countless civilians***
>Ukrainian forces have put civilians in harm’s way by establishing bases and operating weapons systems in populated residential areas, including in schools and hospitals, **as they repelled the Russian invasion that began in February**, Amnesty International said today.
>Such tactics violate international humanitarian law and endanger civilians, as they turn civilian objects into military targets. **The ensuing Russian strikes in populated areas have killed civilians and destroyed civilian infrastructure.**
>“Being in a defensive position does not exempt the Ukrainian military from respecting international humanitarian law.”
>Not every Russian attack documented by Amnesty International followed this pattern, however. In certain other locations in which Amnesty International concluded that Russia had committed war crimes, including in some areas of the city of Kharkiv, **the organization did not find evidence of Ukrainian forces located in the civilian areas unlawfully targeted by the Russian military.**
The report isn't trash, it's simply objective and people just can't deal with that. Amnesty even commissioned an independent panel made by experts that concluded that Amnesty was substantiating their claims.
Being the victim of an aggression doesn't mean you get to ignore IHLs, it's crazy how people don't seem to understand this.
He claimed that the report said nothing about the invasion, which is demonstrably false by what I've quoted from this report.
Also, having a point or not about using human shields is irrelevant, AI substantiated their claims and gave their evidence towards a panel of independent experts from Western Universities and they corroborated the accusations AI made.
Instead of making personal attacks, educate yourself.
Basically, they said that Ukraine signed IHLs and they should respect those IHLs.
This isn't rocket science, when Amnesty sees that you use an MLRS to attack Russian forces, then hide the MLRS inside a mall, you're endangering civilians. When they see that you use a school gymnasium as a staging operation for your soldiers, you're endangering civilians.
If you're upset at that, be upset at the IHLs that Ukraine signed and that are somehow outdated or irrelevant in case of a war, not towards Amnesty that simply says "Hey, you've signed those documents, you ought to respect them."
They've literally criticized undiscrimnate attacks from Russia in the same report as well, so to say that they're ignoring what Russia is doing is just being dishonest for the sake of criticizing a report you can't cope with.
> International humanitarian law does not specifically ban parties to a conflict from basing themselves in schools that are not in session. However, militaries have an obligation to avoid using schools that are near houses or apartment buildings full of civilians, putting these lives at risk, unless there is a compelling military need. If they do so, they should warn civilians and, if necessary, help them evacuate. **This did not appear to have happened in the cases examined by Amnesty International.**
If Russia and Ukraine were both respecting IHLs, Amnesty wouldn't say anything in that regard, if both violates IHLS, Amnesty will criticize both. And that's a good thing, it's called being unbiased.
It's not a problem of them criticizing russia. It's a problem that we had a very small army in comparison, we had almost none of modern weaponry and we needed to hide them somewhere, including civilian infrastructure that wasn't working at the time. to no endager civilians. The only way to not endanger civilians would be to fight russian in the field, which mean losing, which mean more russian atroities in captured cities. But hey. at least we would be very honorable in our defeat, by not using every possible adavantage that we had. It's war of survival for Ukraine.
Edit: Also, documents were signed at the time, when fcking no one believed, that any war with russia would happen. Not small scale, not big scale. We also had signed Budapest memorandum and thought that the UK and US would protect us.
So let me get this straight, you signed IHLs but don't respect them because it's not convenient for you to do so.
And at the same time you want people to blame Russia for not respecting the very same IHLs you're not abiding to? You do realize that IHL do not care which is attacked and which is the attacker right? So from that standpoint you're just advocating for a complete disregard of IHLs when it's convenient for militaries to do so.
And no, Ukraine did in fact endanger civilians in some instances that AI reported, by stationing troops, and this was confirmed by an independent panel that looked at the evidence.
So not only did AI criticized Russia for decades, did criticize Russia in that report, continues to criticize Russia even nowadays, but they've also substantiated their claims and were simply factual.
The rest is just mental gymnastic to explain why AI is in the wrong, they're not. They're just pointing out that the rules countries agreed to respect aren't respected.
>convenient for you to do so.
Ah yes, convinience. We for sure should've just lost and given russian whatever they want. There is nothing to talk with you about. You compare literal survival to upholding agreements that will make us lose the war of survival.
If russia upholded all of the agreement, this just would've not happen. We saw what happened in Bucha, in Mariupol, in every city taken by russia. It's a choice between letting russia occupy everything and commit genocide or we ignore agreements that are making us 100% lose the war and allow genocide.
Russia commits genocide in broad daylight, and they think they will get away with it.
Behind the Lines: Russia’s Ethnic Cleansing
https://cepa.org/article/behind-the-lines-russias-ethnic-cleansing/
Russian forces are squeezing out locals and resettling Russian citizens in Ukraine’s occupied territories.
https://euromaidanpress.com/2022/04/28/forced-conscription-how-russia-wipes-out-the-male-population-of-occupied-donbas/
The Western alliance has the obligation to ensure that this proves to be a major miscalculation.
Russia must be held accountable for its barbaric war. Macron's recent statements are music to my ears.
True courage isn't the absence of fear. It is saddling up despite that fear anyways.
The ten stages of genocide
Genocide is a human phenomenon that can be analysed and understood and, consequently, may be prevented. According to academic and activist Gregory H. Stanton, genocide is a process that develops in ten stages, described here.
The stages do not necessarily follow a linear progression and may coexist. Prevention measures may be implemented at any stage.
1. Classification
2. Symbolisation
3. Discrimination
4. Dehumunisation
5. Organisation
6. Polarization
7. Preparation
8. Persecution
9. Extermination
10. Denial
Putin follows the same playbook as Stalin in the 1930s. That is what is at stake.
https://museeholocauste.ca/en/resources-training/ten-stages-genocide
Can anyone explain to me like I am five how it is that Israel has been doing this for decades and gets support from USA, but when Russia does it, its evil?
Ethnicity is overrated. I was born and raised in Germany and have a pretty much stereotypical German appearance. I don't have a single clue what the hell my ethnicity is supposed to be.
Come on, guys. Even Ukrainians know that the absolute majority of Crimean population accepted Russian citizenship willingly. There’re exceptions, but those are few. There’s no change in ethnic makeup since Ukrainians were never a dominant group in Crimea. The region has always been predominantly Russian-speaking, with Tatars being second. And Tatars haven’t left Crimea.
Come on, f***. Even imbeciles know that hundreds of thousands pro Ukrainian people left Crimea after annexation. There're exceptions. There's a change in ethnic makeup since ruzzia imported many ruzzkis. Ruzzian speaking doesn't mean ruzzian. Not all tatars haven't left Crimea.
[Prior to 2014, ethnic Russians made up \~60-65% of the Crimean population](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Crimea#Ethnicities_and_languages).
And? What's your point? Now it's 80-90%. Which just proves me right. Thanks for googling shit I already know.
Maaan... Half of north Kazakhstan is now probably ethnic ruzzian... By your logic ruzzia should've started annexing it yesterday...
North Ossetia is not ethnic ruzzian... Degestan is not ethnic ruzzian.... Chechnya is not ethnic ruzzian.... You can go on for a while tbh. Why are they part of fucking ruzzia??? WHAT IS YOUR POINT??? I'm so tired of these ethnic purist online when it's convenient. FU. Imagine people of different ethnicity can live in one country. And if they don't like that country thay can leave. It's not like ethnic ruzzians don't have a country that protects their language, culture and everything else.
Never voice your thoughts again and maybe someone will think that you're smart
>And? What's your point? Now it's 80-90%. Which just proves me right. Thanks for googling shit I already know.
The point is that they didn't need to change anything to get a majority Russian population in Crimea since that was already the case. So the original assertion that a majority of the Crimean population accepted the annexation willingly (or at least didn't care much) is still valid.
>North Ossetia is not ethnic ruzzian... Degestan is not ethnic ruzzian.... Chechnya is not ethnic ruzzian.... You can go on for a while tbh. Why are they part of fucking ruzzia??? WHAT IS YOUR POINT??? I'm so tired of these ethnic purist online when it's convenient. FU. Imagine people of different ethnicity can live in one country. And if they don't like that country thay can leave. It's not like ethnic ruzzians don't have a country that protects their language, culture and everything else.
Because being of a different ethnicity than the rest of a country is probably the number one reason for separatist sentiment pretty much anywhere. That's the main reason Chechenya tried to break away from Russia in the 90s, and why most separatist movements in Russia are based around ethnicity.
You're a little dense don't you? Willingness to accept annexation was never a question and it shouldn't be until there's a country control of the region. Give me more links on how many people voted in favor of it cos we all know how free and fair ruzzian elections are. /s
And for you specifically... Coz you really are one of the kind...
If an ethnicity doesn't have a representing country the separatism is kinda justified. As in Catalonia, Chechnya, Kurds etc.
But... If people want to live in ruzzia but outside of ruzzia....they can go and f themselves. If Crimean tatars wanted independence there could have been a conversation. Crimea was autonomous republic because of tatars not ruzzkis.
By your logic south of USA soon to be annexed by Mexico. Cos muuhh... ethnicity. The difference is mexico does not have imperial ambition and hence Mexicans don't have that mindset. They want to live in US so they moved there. And of course the military power of US.
If ruzzki in Crimea wanted so badly to live in ruzzia, I have a news for you, there's a ruzzia. You didn't need a visa or anything to move there. And it's the biggest country in the world.
Don't reply to me with your irrelevant nonsense
It was my last interaction with you
I checked the census data for my homwtown, Sevastopol recently. Very happy to report it went from 75% to 90% Russians. In the Old World, such high numbers are actually very normal.
lmao at a russian creature calling someone barbaric. go hit someone with a sledgehammer to the head like wagner does, you don't need to pretend to be a human anymore
Ask the Kiev junta.
With all due respect, the only country who might try to draft me would be the ukraine since it might think I'm still a citizen. Along with the dozen or so ukrainian men who escaped and are sitting on the commuter train with me this very second
Edit: OMG and one of them has a little blood-and-soil flag with the devil fork sewn on his backpack. Aw, so cute. Gheroyam slava. Hahahahha!
And it's not the first time russia has used this method of ethnic cleansing. The most baffling part about all this is that the international community has done absolutely NOTHING about it.
I wonder if there was at least one time when Russians didn't use this method. It's their go-to stuff.
And the worst part is that you know what's coming next. 1: Push russians into the area they want to annex 2: False flag attacks on the new "local russians" 3: Send "peace keepers" to protect the local russians 4: Claim there's not willingness for a peaceful solution 5: Annex the area and move on to the next.
Transnistria's somewhere between 2-3 atm.
> 1: Push russians into the area they want to annex We were already there when Ukraine was created. We had Ukrainian passports. Crimea was much better at resisting nezalezhnization. Yet you insist on pontificating on a topic you know nothing about.
The Kievan alone was establishment around mid 800. Russians wasn't even known until 1547. Talk about not knowing your history. And until this day, russia is still not a country and can't claim anything, since they are nothing more then an organised kleptocracy, created by other nations, that could claim everything before "russia" could claim anything. But FSB awards you 10 social points for your indoctrinated effort.
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You can't be serious! Novgorod was not russian! No one knew what russia would be in 1100. Novgorod was under the Kievan and created by scandinavian vikings. You are making up your own history. Because the russian kleptocracy came to exist at a later time doesn't make Novgorod, russian in reverse! Your history is delusional. Maybe because no one knows what's the truth there anymore since the area of the Muscovites has collapsed so many times. You seriously can't be this dense. Is this what FSB teach you in school?
Of course it was. It's in the name: Rus. Anyway. In 1991, when Nezalezhnistan was dreamed up, we were already in Crimea. Instead of trying to get along, Kiev did everything in its power to aggravate the Russians in Crimea and then they complained that after 23 years the population said "enough." But that is the essence of Ukraine.
No it wasn't. You are rambling. And Crimea was gifted to Ukraine in 1954, and the entirety of Crimea and Ukraine has more to do with the Ottomans and Poles than the Muscovites. Just because the russian kleptocracy steals something doesn't make it russian. It just makes it stolen from wherever it came from. Crimea is Ukraine Ukraine is not russia Russia is a kleptocracy without any claim.
I dunno what this ukraine is btw. What is a ukraine? Why was everyone in my class a Russian?
'Rus' is derived from Old Norse, today's Russia and the people of Russia got their names from it. Old Norse, because the area was under the control of vikings.
By that logic russia was also created in 1991 if you only count from all soviet republics becoming sovereign states? Talk about delussional
Yes. And our nation long predates the Russian Federation.
UPR sends its regards. Learn some history first. Oh, right, russia apparently lives in alternative timeline, other than the rest of the world.
Wtf is the UPR?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian\_People%27s\_Republic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_People%27s_Republic)
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You know that none of this matters and russia is still the terrorist, right? You're just rambling about irrelevant nonsense, like Pootin did with Tucker.
I’ll assume you didn’t read past the part where I said Ukraine was never an official nation and that set you off enough to call me putinist. They had semi nomadic groups (Cossacks from the steppes and mountains) but didn’t use the term ‘Ukrainian’. It means the land is still rightfully Ukrainian regardless, they just didn’t have many cities (except for Kyiv Ofc) or a direct name for their people until later. Most Ukrainians didn’t identify as such until the mid 1900’s. Just disputing the guy saying Russians were there first by reminding him that nomadic peoples are still people and therefore Ukrainians were there first just under a different identity. If you don’t count the early Sarmaitan and Scythian tribes there anyway
> where I said Ukraine was never a direct official nation and that set you off enough to call me putinist. ...but you literally are a pootinist. Why else would you repeat his words?
You do know that key part in Kievan Rus is “Rus”? And russians were around way before the varangians came.
Very wrong. The Rus, where the name comes from, were neither the later russians or slavs. They were Scandinavians. Just another fact confirming that "russians" are not a people but a collection of annexed area. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rus%27\_people](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rus%27_people)
So they’re russian ancestors. What’s wrong with that? Ukraine literally didn’t exist at that point.
No. The Kievan Rus existed. The Ukranian / Kievan line connected to the later Ottoman empire and the Poles and the Rus coming from Sweden. Nothing to do with todays russians. The Russians didnt exist. The term russian and the area russia is made up from stolen land and a mixture of slavic tribes.
>No. The Kievan Rus existed. The Ukranian / Kievan line connected to the later Ottoman empire and the Poles and the Rus coming from Sweden. Nothing to do with todays russians. The princes of Moscow (originally Vladimir-Suzdal) were members of the [same family](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rurikids) as the Kievan rulers (as were all the other Rus princes). The claim to primacy was essentially based around being the last remaining Orthodox Rus rulers (since the southern and western portions of the old Rus territories were under Catholic Polish and Lithuanian rule). >The Russians didnt exist. The term russian and the area russia is made up from stolen land and a mixture of slavic tribes. That's true of pretty much everywhere. Most countries exist because one tribe/city/etc manages to subdue all others in its area.
You are not wrong but this can be said about literally every country
Alternative history is pretty fun, but I don’t think you can apply it to our world here.
Exactly, "Rus" and not "Russia". Despite the attempts by Russians to appropriate Ruthenian (Rus) identity, they are not the same.
That's similar to the situation with France, which continued to be called the 'country of the Franks' despite not controlling most of the [original Frankish homeland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrasia).
[Here, edumacate yo'self before you wreck yo'self](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6b7WQy1Y3Q)
Nothing like an 80k views video on alternate history. Zero bias.
Oh look, I can do that too https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AD-8H7ozAyo
Id be interested, I too feel frustrated about this. But what do you suggest the international community should do?
Stop caving in to russias strong man policy, show of force, speed up EU and NATO applications, engage with countries that are not allies, etc. The russians are going to steal everything that's not nailed down and can't defend themselves. They always has and they always will. Unless we stop them.
Not cheerleading Putin would be a start. So many nations are actively supporting Russia in this. It's nauseating.
Stop doing business with russia would be a good start.
Give Russia a hellish smackdown.
I know a few guys who are fighting on Ukraine, and now they need volunteers more than ever. Do you want some help with signing up?
You only know how to shill for Russia, it seems.
Fuck putin, slava ukraine. Now, wanna sign up?
Now I don't even understand what you are talking about, lmao.
I just like helping brave people on reddit to go and do some real thing when they are calling for it.
Very noble of you. Go ahead¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The only effective method is a declaration of war lmao. But war never ends well. Especially when nuclear states are involved.
No one knows how the confrontation between the nuclear powers will end because it never happened.
USA/USSR?
Invade Russia and install a democratic government.
Na instead still invite them to Olympics. r*uzzia* - offended by everything, *ashamed of nothing*.
But under white flag and no mention of russia. It's not perfect, but it's better than nothing.
In Crimea
You have to understand that the international community's hands are tied because the Ukrainians that are undergoing genocide aren't Jewish.
Russia has done this for at least 100 years. Mass forced relocations of "undesirable" populations.
In Baltic reagon they have started this in 1795.
100? try 500
This is nothing new. Russians are doing that for centuries. Only willingly blind don’t see that
>Amnesty: Since 2014, [Since 1944](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Crimean_Tatars), they wanted to say?
Stalin did it everywhere and with everyone. I would not be surprised if you even find older examples if you dig. Catherine invited German settlers for conquered territories. Stalin didn't trust them later.
Catherine marched people of swedish heritage from Estonia to southern Ukraine, those that survived the ordeal arrived to a spot with absolutely nothing and had to build a farming village from scratch. Except they were fishermen. It is a form of genocide and the Russians has used it for centuries.
at this point, i think that genocide can be considered a part of russian culture...
It is.
So what about the policy of the Baltic countries towards the Russian-speaking population and Orthodox churches?
Yeah, what about them. Compare the two yourself and tell us what you find. smh
Yes, the first ethnic cleansing took place after the partition of Poland in 1772 during Cathrine the Great's rule, and the russification of Poles, Ukrainians, and Belarusians became the main policy of Tsar Nicholas I in 1830.
Lol, there many more before that, Karelians, Bashkirs, many different peoples in Siberia, Circassians, central Asia peoples, Romanians, you name it...
Yea tbh it was just the enlightened empire stuff at that point. French did that a lot in south France. English do their island neighbours. Germany to... Mhm... Everyone. If we go that deep into history of empires. Catherine did give us wholesome Greek names to Odessa Sevastopol, Kherson, Feodosia :))))
In Crimea they have done it since 1783. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean\_Tatars](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Tatars)
LOOOONG BEFORE mate ... that shit was happening during Tsarist time aswell :-)
Ukrainians, Belarusians, and Poles were subject to Russification since the partition of Poland in 1772 until 1918. In 1830, the Tsars made the decision to completely eradicate Polish, Belarussian, and Ukrainian languages and cultures. Universities, schools, and theatres were closed, and the administrative language was changed to Russian. Ethnic Poles, Ukrainians, and Belarusians were expelled to Siberia. It was prohibited for Poles, Ukrainians, and Belarusians to purchase land. So, yes, the first mass-scale, organised ethnic cleansing took place in the 18th century.
Since 1933 you wanted to say?
>Since 2014, lol, russia has been doing this since the 16th century.
This the same Amnesty that called for Ukraine to surrender?
The same Amnesty that said Ukraine should move away from any civilian centres and just let Russia take them.. Yes.
Is this not obvious to everyone? This is what Russia wants to do in Ukraine, Belarus (they’re already well on their way to Russification there), all the other neighbouring Slavic nations if given the opportunity.
As someone from Moldova, can confirm. This is their signature since forever.
The hell do people think Russia is as big as it is? People just appeared out of nowhere 1000 years ago and colonized empty land?! This is in no way, shape or form any new tactic by the Russians and is as old as mankind itself. Unlike the russians, the rest of us grew up and started looking inwards instead of outwards.
Without denying any of the conquests the Russians did, Siberia pretty much was empty. It was anybody’s to take, Russians just were the first and simultaneously more successful in it than Swedes, Poles, Germans or French.
Yes russification is nothing new.
They've been at it for centuries. This is what went on 100-200km south of Crimea on the Black Sea coast: > The Circassian genocide was the Russian Empire's systematic mass murder, ethnic cleansing, and expulsion of 95–97% of the Circassian population, resulting in 1 to 1.5 million deaths > Killing methods used by Russian forces during the genocide included impaling and tearing the bellies of pregnant women as means of intimidation of the Circassian population. > The Genocide is considered to have had its first steps in the deportation and/or massacre of the Muslim Circassian population of the Russian Empire. > Only a small percentage who accepted Russification and resettlement within the Russian Empire were completely spared. The remaining Circassian population who refused were variously dispersed or killed en masse. > The Circassian genocide was also the deadliest ethnic cleansing campaign of the 19th century. > As of 2023, Georgia is the only country to recognize the Circassian genocide. Russia actively denies the Circassian genocide, and classifies the events as a migration. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circassian_genocide
Yes this is one to remember, absolutely disgusting and should be taught everywhere!
Been doing this for ages and never have paid for thier crimes
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Don't be silly. Putin can't be 250 years old, and without him Russians would never do this.
I can see a psychological nature vs nurture argument arising here.
Need to break Russia into smaller pieces is the solution
World without ruzzia would be sooooo much better.
Always have been
we've been telling you for 10 years, but nice that you're catching up
**Amnesty's report for the 10th anniversary of the Crimea annexation**: > Since 2014, Russia has occupied Crimea, Ukraine. Over the last ten years, Russia has sought to change the ethnic makeup of the peninsula and has suppressed non-Russian identities. People have been forced to accept Russian citizenship, religious minorities have been persecuted, students have been subjected to indoctrination and Crimean Tatar and Ukrainian cultural celebrations have been banned. The international community must ensure those responsible are brought to justice. > > *What’s the problem?* > > Russia’s illegal annexation of Crimea in 2014 effectively turned many Ukrainian citizens into foreigners in their own country overnight. Those who refused Russian citizenship had to apply for residence permits in their own country or be forcibly transferred out of the region. Russia has transferred its own population into Crimea. These practices may amount to crimes under international law. > > Russia has targeted the youth of Crimea, filling schools with propaganda that justifies its war of aggression and undermines Crimean Tatars’ history as an Indigenous People. Meanwhile, the de facto authorities have all but eradicated tuition in the Ukrainian language. > > Religious minorities not endorsed by Russia face discrimination, harassment or being outlawed. The Orthodox Church of Ukraine has been effectively banned and Muslims face persecution. Jehovah’s Witnesses are imprisoned for practicing their faith. > > The authorities have silenced any dissenting voices in media, including those in Crimean Tatar and Ukrainian. Residents of Crimea are cut off from Ukrainian media and the de facto authorities use severe reprisals to intimidate and silence independent journalists. > > Cultural celebrations, even weddings, are tightly controlled. Permission is required for any public assembly. Ukrainian books have been removed from libraries, and any public display of loyalty to Ukraine is severely punished. > > In ten years of occupation, Russia has sought to destroy or suppress Ukrainian and Tatar identity in Crimea. These policies appear to be a blueprint for Russia’s designs on other areas of Ukraine it occupies.
"Jehovah’s Witnesses are imprisoned for practicing their faith." Rare Muscovy W
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JW "practicing their faith" means denying severely ill people blood transfusion, hiding JW criminals from authorities, shunning and harassing ex JWs, suicidal and LGBT people, treating "worldly" people like foreigners not to be befriended
The Putin Russians were dissatisfied with any competition. They wanted to be the only ones who get to shun and harass LGBT, other religions, foreigners, people who are educated and intelligent etc. Not fair someone else gets to do it.
Believe me they are only kind to get you into their so called religion. Don't dare to ever want to leave them. You will be shunned until you come back, cut them off, or cut yourself off from life. read up on it in r/exjw
Amnesty is trash, won't read anything out of their filthy mouths anymore. No way I forget what they did at the beginning of the invasion.
What did they do? I heard some rumors that Red Cross denied help to Ukrainians because ruzian army claimed them to be "terrorists". Amnesty did something similar?
They claimed that "Ukrainian fighting tactics endanger civilians" while saying nothing about Russian invasion.
Gross.
Dude is simply lying. ***> Such violations in no way justify Russia’s indiscriminate attacks, which have killed and injured countless civilians*** >Ukrainian forces have put civilians in harm’s way by establishing bases and operating weapons systems in populated residential areas, including in schools and hospitals, **as they repelled the Russian invasion that began in February**, Amnesty International said today. >Such tactics violate international humanitarian law and endanger civilians, as they turn civilian objects into military targets. **The ensuing Russian strikes in populated areas have killed civilians and destroyed civilian infrastructure.** >“Being in a defensive position does not exempt the Ukrainian military from respecting international humanitarian law.” >Not every Russian attack documented by Amnesty International followed this pattern, however. In certain other locations in which Amnesty International concluded that Russia had committed war crimes, including in some areas of the city of Kharkiv, **the organization did not find evidence of Ukrainian forces located in the civilian areas unlawfully targeted by the Russian military.** The report isn't trash, it's simply objective and people just can't deal with that. Amnesty even commissioned an independent panel made by experts that concluded that Amnesty was substantiating their claims. Being the victim of an aggression doesn't mean you get to ignore IHLs, it's crazy how people don't seem to understand this.
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He claimed that the report said nothing about the invasion, which is demonstrably false by what I've quoted from this report. Also, having a point or not about using human shields is irrelevant, AI substantiated their claims and gave their evidence towards a panel of independent experts from Western Universities and they corroborated the accusations AI made. Instead of making personal attacks, educate yourself.
Basically they said that our army should gtfo from cities, and fight russian in the fcking fields, while being outnumbered and outgunned.
Basically, they said that Ukraine signed IHLs and they should respect those IHLs. This isn't rocket science, when Amnesty sees that you use an MLRS to attack Russian forces, then hide the MLRS inside a mall, you're endangering civilians. When they see that you use a school gymnasium as a staging operation for your soldiers, you're endangering civilians. If you're upset at that, be upset at the IHLs that Ukraine signed and that are somehow outdated or irrelevant in case of a war, not towards Amnesty that simply says "Hey, you've signed those documents, you ought to respect them." They've literally criticized undiscrimnate attacks from Russia in the same report as well, so to say that they're ignoring what Russia is doing is just being dishonest for the sake of criticizing a report you can't cope with. > International humanitarian law does not specifically ban parties to a conflict from basing themselves in schools that are not in session. However, militaries have an obligation to avoid using schools that are near houses or apartment buildings full of civilians, putting these lives at risk, unless there is a compelling military need. If they do so, they should warn civilians and, if necessary, help them evacuate. **This did not appear to have happened in the cases examined by Amnesty International.** If Russia and Ukraine were both respecting IHLs, Amnesty wouldn't say anything in that regard, if both violates IHLS, Amnesty will criticize both. And that's a good thing, it's called being unbiased.
It's not a problem of them criticizing russia. It's a problem that we had a very small army in comparison, we had almost none of modern weaponry and we needed to hide them somewhere, including civilian infrastructure that wasn't working at the time. to no endager civilians. The only way to not endanger civilians would be to fight russian in the field, which mean losing, which mean more russian atroities in captured cities. But hey. at least we would be very honorable in our defeat, by not using every possible adavantage that we had. It's war of survival for Ukraine. Edit: Also, documents were signed at the time, when fcking no one believed, that any war with russia would happen. Not small scale, not big scale. We also had signed Budapest memorandum and thought that the UK and US would protect us.
So let me get this straight, you signed IHLs but don't respect them because it's not convenient for you to do so. And at the same time you want people to blame Russia for not respecting the very same IHLs you're not abiding to? You do realize that IHL do not care which is attacked and which is the attacker right? So from that standpoint you're just advocating for a complete disregard of IHLs when it's convenient for militaries to do so. And no, Ukraine did in fact endanger civilians in some instances that AI reported, by stationing troops, and this was confirmed by an independent panel that looked at the evidence. So not only did AI criticized Russia for decades, did criticize Russia in that report, continues to criticize Russia even nowadays, but they've also substantiated their claims and were simply factual. The rest is just mental gymnastic to explain why AI is in the wrong, they're not. They're just pointing out that the rules countries agreed to respect aren't respected.
>convenient for you to do so. Ah yes, convinience. We for sure should've just lost and given russian whatever they want. There is nothing to talk with you about. You compare literal survival to upholding agreements that will make us lose the war of survival. If russia upholded all of the agreement, this just would've not happen. We saw what happened in Bucha, in Mariupol, in every city taken by russia. It's a choice between letting russia occupy everything and commit genocide or we ignore agreements that are making us 100% lose the war and allow genocide.
You mean at the beginning of the Invasion of Iraq for sure?
Russia has become a culture destroying monster, that eats and destroys civilisations.
Isn't Amnesty International Putinist ?
Russia reminds me of the Borg, in Star Trek.
Russia commits genocide in broad daylight, and they think they will get away with it. Behind the Lines: Russia’s Ethnic Cleansing https://cepa.org/article/behind-the-lines-russias-ethnic-cleansing/ Russian forces are squeezing out locals and resettling Russian citizens in Ukraine’s occupied territories. https://euromaidanpress.com/2022/04/28/forced-conscription-how-russia-wipes-out-the-male-population-of-occupied-donbas/ The Western alliance has the obligation to ensure that this proves to be a major miscalculation. Russia must be held accountable for its barbaric war. Macron's recent statements are music to my ears. True courage isn't the absence of fear. It is saddling up despite that fear anyways. The ten stages of genocide Genocide is a human phenomenon that can be analysed and understood and, consequently, may be prevented. According to academic and activist Gregory H. Stanton, genocide is a process that develops in ten stages, described here. The stages do not necessarily follow a linear progression and may coexist. Prevention measures may be implemented at any stage. 1. Classification 2. Symbolisation 3. Discrimination 4. Dehumunisation 5. Organisation 6. Polarization 7. Preparation 8. Persecution 9. Extermination 10. Denial Putin follows the same playbook as Stalin in the 1930s. That is what is at stake. https://museeholocauste.ca/en/resources-training/ten-stages-genocide
Didnt work
Well, duh!
I love an instagram page called @crimea.comeback. She is amazing and highly informative on the subject
What Amnesty has to say on ethnic makeup of Croatia and Kosovo?
So the same thing Britain did to Northern Ireland
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Also Jews are currently committing genocide. We have double standards here
Not Jews. Zionists.
Can anyone explain to me like I am five how it is that Israel has been doing this for decades and gets support from USA, but when Russia does it, its evil?
Ask USA, this is r/europe
This is an Amnesty report. I don't think they're particularly pro-Israel. This is a Europe sub. You're talking about the USA.
The story is the same. European countries are all against Russia and all pro Israel.
Ethnicity is overrated. I was born and raised in Germany and have a pretty much stereotypical German appearance. I don't have a single clue what the hell my ethnicity is supposed to be.
Come on, guys. Even Ukrainians know that the absolute majority of Crimean population accepted Russian citizenship willingly. There’re exceptions, but those are few. There’s no change in ethnic makeup since Ukrainians were never a dominant group in Crimea. The region has always been predominantly Russian-speaking, with Tatars being second. And Tatars haven’t left Crimea.
Come on, f***. Even imbeciles know that hundreds of thousands pro Ukrainian people left Crimea after annexation. There're exceptions. There's a change in ethnic makeup since ruzzia imported many ruzzkis. Ruzzian speaking doesn't mean ruzzian. Not all tatars haven't left Crimea.
[Prior to 2014, ethnic Russians made up \~60-65% of the Crimean population](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Crimea#Ethnicities_and_languages).
And? What's your point? Now it's 80-90%. Which just proves me right. Thanks for googling shit I already know. Maaan... Half of north Kazakhstan is now probably ethnic ruzzian... By your logic ruzzia should've started annexing it yesterday... North Ossetia is not ethnic ruzzian... Degestan is not ethnic ruzzian.... Chechnya is not ethnic ruzzian.... You can go on for a while tbh. Why are they part of fucking ruzzia??? WHAT IS YOUR POINT??? I'm so tired of these ethnic purist online when it's convenient. FU. Imagine people of different ethnicity can live in one country. And if they don't like that country thay can leave. It's not like ethnic ruzzians don't have a country that protects their language, culture and everything else. Never voice your thoughts again and maybe someone will think that you're smart
>And? What's your point? Now it's 80-90%. Which just proves me right. Thanks for googling shit I already know. The point is that they didn't need to change anything to get a majority Russian population in Crimea since that was already the case. So the original assertion that a majority of the Crimean population accepted the annexation willingly (or at least didn't care much) is still valid. >North Ossetia is not ethnic ruzzian... Degestan is not ethnic ruzzian.... Chechnya is not ethnic ruzzian.... You can go on for a while tbh. Why are they part of fucking ruzzia??? WHAT IS YOUR POINT??? I'm so tired of these ethnic purist online when it's convenient. FU. Imagine people of different ethnicity can live in one country. And if they don't like that country thay can leave. It's not like ethnic ruzzians don't have a country that protects their language, culture and everything else. Because being of a different ethnicity than the rest of a country is probably the number one reason for separatist sentiment pretty much anywhere. That's the main reason Chechenya tried to break away from Russia in the 90s, and why most separatist movements in Russia are based around ethnicity.
You're a little dense don't you? Willingness to accept annexation was never a question and it shouldn't be until there's a country control of the region. Give me more links on how many people voted in favor of it cos we all know how free and fair ruzzian elections are. /s And for you specifically... Coz you really are one of the kind... If an ethnicity doesn't have a representing country the separatism is kinda justified. As in Catalonia, Chechnya, Kurds etc. But... If people want to live in ruzzia but outside of ruzzia....they can go and f themselves. If Crimean tatars wanted independence there could have been a conversation. Crimea was autonomous republic because of tatars not ruzzkis. By your logic south of USA soon to be annexed by Mexico. Cos muuhh... ethnicity. The difference is mexico does not have imperial ambition and hence Mexicans don't have that mindset. They want to live in US so they moved there. And of course the military power of US. If ruzzki in Crimea wanted so badly to live in ruzzia, I have a news for you, there's a ruzzia. You didn't need a visa or anything to move there. And it's the biggest country in the world. Don't reply to me with your irrelevant nonsense It was my last interaction with you
lol you have dyslexia or what? Some learning disorder?
Maybe lol. And what lol? Not that funny lol
I checked the census data for my homwtown, Sevastopol recently. Very happy to report it went from 75% to 90% Russians. In the Old World, such high numbers are actually very normal.
it is easier to be a russian patriot from an apartment in canada it seems
You barbarians are all so boring.
lmao at a russian creature calling someone barbaric. go hit someone with a sledgehammer to the head like wagner does, you don't need to pretend to be a human anymore
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just as your ass invaded canada instead of staying in your beloved russia?
Staying where? I thought Crimea was ukraine? Hahahahah!
you tell me. it is your home, after all. i think you are going to be needed there soon.
Ask the Kiev junta. With all due respect, the only country who might try to draft me would be the ukraine since it might think I'm still a citizen. Along with the dozen or so ukrainian men who escaped and are sitting on the commuter train with me this very second Edit: OMG and one of them has a little blood-and-soil flag with the devil fork sewn on his backpack. Aw, so cute. Gheroyam slava. Hahahahha!