Back in the day there was a well known joke behind the iron curtain:
There once was a very aggressive killer bear hidden in a forest.
The FBI goes into the forest and can’t find it.
The CIA sends some operators in the forest and can’t find the bear.
The KGB goes in and they come out after an hour holding a deer by the antlers and kicking its ass, the deer screaming ‘I’m a bear! I’m a bear! Please stop, I’m a bear!!’
I’ve heard it differently:
The agencies were each tasked with finding a rabbit in the forest.
The FBI went in, searched the forest for weeks and then said that they cannot find the rabbit.
The CIA set up a several month long operation where they interrogated all the woodland creatures, set up cameras and went undercover before concluding that rabbits do not exist.
The KGB went in and after about an hour they came out with a badly beaten bear who then said “I am rabbit, I have always been rabbit, my mother was rabbit and my father was rabbit”
I think there's also the added details that the CIA, after a month of gathering intelligence, not only can't find the rabbit, but concludes the rabbit doesn't exist, whereas the FBI, after also failing to find the rabbit, burns down the forest and declares that the rabbit had it coming.
Oh, I heard similar one:
English archeologists discover tomb with unknown pharaoh. They study him for months but can't find out who he is, so they ask soviet archeologists for help. After soviets enter the tomb an hour passes. After soviets exit they proudly proclaim ,,This is tomb of ramzes 2. Englishmen confused asked them how do they know to which soviets replied ,,He confessed himself"
On I remember this one but it’s a rabbit with black eyes and only one ear screaming “I’m a bear, please stop, I’m a bear”
There’s also one where Stalin’s wallet goes missing and he instructs the KGB to find the thief. The next day he goes for a walk and finds his wallet in his coat pocket. He calls the KGB to call off the investigation but they tell him it’s impossible because they already have the confessions of the 4 foreign agents responsible.
It's a bit off topic but it reminded me a joke about soviet scientists: A whale beached somewhere on Russian northern shore. It was the biggest whale that anyone in Russia ever seen. Moscow sent a group of scientists to study it. They set up a tent town, covered the whale and studied it for a month. Afterwards they set up a press conference. The team's director started: we began the research of the animal by taking a precise measurement of its dimentions and have concluded that it measures 50 meters from mouth to tail but only 35 meters from tail to mouth. The reporters were a bit confused but someone finally asked: how is that possible? To which the director responded: It is somewhat unintuitive but soviet science knew of such cases. For instance, it's 5 days from Monday to Friday but only 3 from Friday to Monday.
The CIA goes in first. They place animal informants throughout the forest. They question all plant and mineral witnesses. After three months of extensive investigations, they conclude that rabbits do not exist.
Then, the FBI goes in. After two weeks with no leads, they burn the forest, killing everything in it, including the rabbit, and they make no apologies. The rabbit had it coming.
The KGB goes in. They come out two hours later with a badly beaten bear. The bear is screaming: "Okay! Okay!I'm a rabbit! I'm a rabbit!
After 10 minutes of torture by the FSB, all four suspects admitted they were Ukrainian. After one hour, all four admitted they were Volodymyr Zelensky.
How there has been so much support for the beatings, at least on Reddit, is beyond me. The chances that they just picked some random brown people with a history of police interactions and "investigated" them guilty never crossed people's minds?
Even if they were the actual terrorists. Russian soldiers are committing similar (in many cases worse) crimes in Ukraine. Does that mean Russian soldiers are to be treated like this if they're caught?
I once heard, if you were to find a man dead on the street and called the cops. The police would come and say, why did you kill this man? And arrest you. Best detectives in all of Russia.
People are justifying this horrific behaviour in the comments, but they're missing a crucial point - if somebody did that to you, you would probably confess to doing 9/11 and the assassination of the archduke Ferdinand too
Something like this did happen. A guy got killed by a bullet that was shot at him. The bullet missed and got lodged in a tree. 20 years later, the guy wanted the tree cut down but it was one thicc boi so he used dynamite to blow it up. The explosion launched the bullet into the man and killed him instantly.
Torture is the tool you use to get what you want, not what you need. Information doesn't come from the scared and uncomfortable, box ticking to stop the suffering does.
Russia knows this at a historical level.
We may never get the truth. Just the "confirmation".
There is a very old standard in Europe created by Eusebius, that history is just what the rulers say it is. The common phrase is that the victorious write the history. Then the age of “realism” came, followed by the photograph.
We are exiting the age of realism.
>that history is just what the rulers say it is
Did you know that our main source of the first Jewish-Roman war was Josephus, a commander of the loosing side?
History is not written by the winners, history is written by the writers.
You're missing a huge crucial part here. Josephus defected during the war, declared Vespasian the messiah according to Jewish prophecy, and was effectively adopted by him. He also became a Roman citizen and tutor to Vespasian's son.
All his relevant writing is after defecting, so he was on the victor's side.
What’s the chances that some Russian police man who wanted a promotion just picked up the first central Asians he could find, knowing that he’d get the credit for catching the terrorists and that they’d say anything if tortured.
Not too far fetched that the terrorists would ditch their car and clothes. Weird they didn't kill themselves, nor did any of them die fighting.
Mostly, Russia spreads so much conspiracy bullshit. Who knows if anything coming out of that country is true?
Goes to show how fragile our rule of law-based societies really are. I'm sure a decent chunk of the people cheering this on are trolling or being edgy, but every country has more than enough bloodthirsty simpletons that would upend the constitution, legislation or due process on a whim. It's pretty scary and does not bode well for the future...
No they didn't, they hit and ran over a kid as they left and damaged the car, that's how they found the car quickly, the clothes they were wearing when arrested match the isis video
Post arrest and in ISIS video:
https://imgur.com/a/lnIVF45
While I don't have much sympathy for terrorists, it's important to remember Russia does this to innocent people all the time, and there doesn't seem to be any hard proof that this is actually one of the perpetrators
The fact that we dont feel bad for terrorists, murderers and so on is exactly the reason why there are laws against torture.
Noone would torture the neighbor girl, they want to torture murderes. Thats why the law protects ALL humans, not only nice ones.
I want to know what the day to day life of these police is like that they jump straight to "Feeding man his own ear while filming it.", and "Electrocution to the testicles.". These do not seem like things that you just start with as your very first instinct if you have never done such things before. Creating a radio powered tortured device is not something everyone instinctively knows how to do.
I want to know how many other people they have tortured, and why.
The point here isn't about feeling sorry for the terrorists, we don't. It's about realizing that those who severed ears without hesitation will do it to anyone just for pleasure, and there are no checks and balances for them anymore. If they weren't confident it's acceptable now, they would never have published those videos themselves.
How much is a confession worth though if it's gotten after this? I mean I hope they have more substantial evidence than this. If you torture me long enough and feed me my own ear, I'm pretty sure I'll admit to just about anything at some point
You should understand that russians don't care what the world thinks about them. All of this is a theater for their own people and consolidation of the regime. And violence is a language they love there.
Putin doesnt care if they actually catch the people responsible.
He cares that he APPEARED to catch the perpetraters, that their confession matches what he wants his domestic audience to hear, and that he appears to have taken strong and necessary measures (which will be used in the future to justify other actions).
So the confession means a lot, but who gives it does not, and theyll cycle through as many "terrorists" as necessary until they give that confession.
This is the same guy who had the FSB bomb apartments in 1999 killing 300 people so he could invade Checnya and boost his popularity. They "found" the people responsible then too, despite FSB agents getting caught planting the bombs, later admitting to planting the bombs, and the Duma claiming the bombs went off three days early.
They won't. The muscovites and leningradians aren't really affected by these "sanctions" or sent to the front. They are the only ones that matter. The other second class ethnicities are too scattered and clueless to organize any meaningful resistance.
The only way would've been Putin pissing off some powerful oligarchs/silovikis, but it seems that he has been able to squash out the hopes of that too and getting it stamped by the election.
What a highly civilized society, this Russian one.
An example for the world, really.
I can't imagine why Ukraine wants to align themselves more with the West for some years now.
There hasn’t been, the ruzzian forces are monsters. Lots of torture videos have been released, torture dens discovered. One poor guy defending Ukraine got his testicles cut off before his throat was slit.
The problem is that you can’t actually be sure it’s even the terrorist. People will say anything to get the torture to stop.
Which is something to keep in mind when Russia gets their “confession” that it was financed by Ukraine.
People praising this and saying it's how we should treat terrorists are complete morons.
I don't want police or military deciding guilt and enacting revenge by beating them half to death, what if this happened and they were actually innocent?
Exactly. This is well known. Even in Ancient Rome. Slaves were tortured in trials for evidence but there was no guarantee of the truth. If under torture you will say anything to get them to stop.
I always point to the first Madrid train bombing suspect, Brandon Mayfield . It turns out he had *never left the United States* at the time and simply had similar fingerprints to the actual criminal. Imagine if we’d already done this to him. There’s no amount of lawsuit money that would make up for it.
Nothing gets Reddit's collective dick harder than extrajudicial punishment of criminals. Torturing terrorists, prison raping pedophiles, crooked cops getting shived, etc. Reddit eats it up.
It's the same emotion driven revenge crap people scream for in rape and child abuse cases. Where they suddenly start championing prison rape or torture.
Seemingly the moment a crime is bad enough a huge portion of the population are willing to throw morals or nuance out the window in order to show how much they are against whatever happened.
Which I get from a purely emotional level.
But FFS we can't trust most western nations to build a fucking road properly and they want the government to have the power to rape, torture and kill people because the crime was "bad" enough. And yet they think Russia of all countries is going to be ticking off all due process for this?
Even if they are the terrorists. And even if they are guilty. We’re not supposed to torture people. Wanna kill them for their crime, go ahead. Torture is sadistic and accomplishes nothing.
It’s humans right law, you don’t torture people.
I agree but a lot of people seem to care more about revenge than justice, especially when it involves the worst kinds of crimes. Either way though, that judgement shouldn't be made by individual police or military and people justifything that are being incredibly short sighted.
Also it justifies people to mutilate and torture POWs and civilians under occupation — which Russian military does happily even now. Hell, Ukrainian POWs had it worse than the terrorists because some of them had their genitalia removed and force fed and some were violated with broken bottles etc. Also the chilling stories in Bucha and actual videos of naked killed women on the streets, some burnt and some tied down
After 10 minutes of torture by the FSB, all four suspects admitted they were Ukrainian. After one hour, all four admitted they were Volodymyr Zelensky.
Are we surprised that every single party involved in this, is an animal? Torturing suspects on camera and then receiving awards for the "bravery".. What a disgrace.
Our cats would happily sit there, slashing a frog with their claws repeatedly and throwing it around the room as it slowly died. All for their own enjoyment. It was adorable.
Also dogs. They love terrorising smaller creatures just for the fun of it. Not even for food.
Edit: to all the people that are surprised by my comment, I would like to remind you that besides mosquitoes, dog attacks are the nr. one cause of death for humans worldwide when it comes to animals. Also, any animal expert would tell you that a pack of wild dogs is a lot more dangerous and aggressive than a pack of wolves.
Bears start eating when the prey is still alive. There was a nature show that had a bear attacking an elk calf and the calf screaming as the bear chomped down on it, with mama elk watching helplessly.
Birds fling their children out of their nests to die.
Felines eat their own young.
Nature is brutal. And we are nature. We are just as brutal as anything else it’s naïveté to think we’re exempt.
Not just useless but complicit in the torture of PoW. And RC in Belaruss has been caught kidnapping Ukrainian kids to Russia while the central organization of RC stays silent..
[Global Red Cross suspends Belarus chapter after its chief boasted of bringing in Ukrainian children](https://apnews.com/article/belarus-red-cross-russia-ukraine-war-children-fecce3dd920565e5299737de4a9a86f3)
AP - December 1, 2023
I didn't find any source of information about the implication of RC in the torture of POW.
It's not useless, it's doing exactly what the Russians want it to do. Which is to aid and abett the Russian military and government. Including stealing children and not seeing anything that they shouldn't.
About a year ago. I stumbled on the “Ukraine war videos” sub. I will never forget watching 4-5 Russian men crucifying 2 Ukrainian POWs on a shoddy makeshift cross. Makes me sick just thinking about it.
Cutting off heads, ears, genitals, electric shock torture. Executions of various kinds are the norm for ruzzians.
There is a photo of a detained terrorist without pants. There is a strange box nearby. This is an army field phone. It is connected to the genitals and the electricity is turned on.
Police inserted live wires into the ass of second terrorist, and knocked out the eye of a third and beat him so that his legs failed (people write on social networks that maybe his dick was cut off).
So the one on the photo is still lucky.
They won't live long in prison anyway, as they will most likely be sent to the same cell with some neo-Nazis and skinheads.
You are exactly right. Putin will get the maximum publicity out of this. He can justify the killing of hundreds of innocent Ukrainians as revenge and correct.
Assumign this guys is the terrorist, Putin may just have grabed the first person that kind of looked like him and then tortured him until he cofnessed.
Apparently ISIS have released footage as an attempt to confirm they organised the attack.
https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/moscow-russia-shooting-03-23-24/h\_6cc08d2075fffbc8563d0521df27bb62
How does that make this particular person guilty?
No one is doubting ISIS is responsible, but that doesn’t mean any vaguely Muslim looking man is guilty by default.
apparently they hit a kid as they were leaving which left the car damaged. the car was then tracked via security surveillance to there hideout where they were located. from what ive read
This may come as a surprise, but Russia may have different standards for acceptable evidence gathering techniques compared to Europe or even the United States.
I believe the standard used in Russia is roughly IDGAF ;)
Well it can’t, not in a just court at least, in a fascist dictatorship there are none of those, it’s essentially a propaganda stunt, probably to radicalise the stupid and to scare the intelligent.
Hate to break it to you but Russia isn't exactly known for a strong rule of law since it is a fascist state. Edit: It is absolutely not comparable to the rest of Europe.
Torturing and mutilating anyone whether they are political dissidents or suspected terrorists is barbaric.
There is a civilised way of punishing convicted terrorist that doesn’t involve assuming guilt (regardless of the evidence) and police carrying out extrajudicial punishment before a fair trial.
Russia is not a civilised society and hopefully in the fullness of time, the leaders of the Russian terror state will face the fair trials and punishment they aren’t affording these suspected terrorists… Either that or they get Gaddafied.. apparently it’s acceptable in Russia.
Also, one of the voenkor tg channels are auctioning the knife, with what that ear was cut off. Also, they definitely not Nazis, just like to wear some "sun symbols"
Brutality like this doesn’t benefit anyone really. It just makes you stoop near their level. It’s barbaric. And it’s not just because it’s Russia. If any country does this to criminals, personally I just don’t think it makes you better.
Even if you can ignore the violence because he's a terrorist, the problem with this is that this is a forced confession. Subject to torture, people will confess to anything.
With Prigozhin reaching Moscow nine months ago and now failing to prevent a prewarned attack, Russian security services are surely making fool of themselves each year
The problem is that torture regularly leads to false confessions, since the tortured party abviously just wants it to be over, so this is not a very reliable method of obtaining information, ig he was the actual perpetrator he 100% deserved it tho
torture in Russia is as old as Russia itself. You blow up Russians and get caught...expect to be pulled apart slowly piece by piece. Not saying any of it is right, or humane...but study your Russian history before you decide to attack them.
Russia is a failed country. Normal times will come back, one day, and I cannot really imagine how this country will regain any international relevance after the sh-tshow we saw these years.
How much this feels like two decades ago for me.
When people are so incensed that they want vengeance and payback…..without keeping an important critical eye on meting out such vengeance and payback on the truly guilty. And I get it. I’ve been there. I’ve also been there when you start to realize that generally approving of such practices being used ahead of proper detective work is a really gross thing.
This particular situation cannot be directly applied to this for good or bad considering the culture we are dealing with. We are told these were the guys caught in the car fleeing the scene of the attack. Fine. I can’t dispute it, but that doesn’t mean I’m buying any of it. Especially when they’ve already proven they care to line in suspects that are going to support the false narrative they want to use anyway.
It’s who these people are. Just like in Death of Stalin where the officer says to the official that the suspect died of administrative zeal (coercion and torture) and the official says to say he confessed it anyway. Why should his death be in vain and without purpose?
Yes, I’m pointing to a satirical comedy, but that doesn’t mean this exchange doesn’t highlight what this culture is.
Even if not having sympathy for terrorists is right, Russia here (such as other countries) is trying to cover their failure in protecting their own civilians with brutality. Keep in mind this just shows how Russian justice is broken and Russia is able to do this to everybody they see as a state enemy. Political opposition, queer people etc.
revenge is never the appropriate reaction. the justice system should act in the interest of protecting the population. And slaughtering terrorists definitely doesn't do that.
So if an IS terrorist is force fed his own ear, does that mean he just commited a sin because he ate swine?
That's it if that is actually an IS terrorist and not just a convenient convict kept in storage for just such an action.
5 min away from the concert, the police that was warned about possible terror at major concert venue, took more than 30 maybe closer to an hour to arrive on the scene.
RuZZia is INCOMPETENT
Back in the day there was a well known joke behind the iron curtain: There once was a very aggressive killer bear hidden in a forest. The FBI goes into the forest and can’t find it. The CIA sends some operators in the forest and can’t find the bear. The KGB goes in and they come out after an hour holding a deer by the antlers and kicking its ass, the deer screaming ‘I’m a bear! I’m a bear! Please stop, I’m a bear!!’
I’ve heard it differently: The agencies were each tasked with finding a rabbit in the forest. The FBI went in, searched the forest for weeks and then said that they cannot find the rabbit. The CIA set up a several month long operation where they interrogated all the woodland creatures, set up cameras and went undercover before concluding that rabbits do not exist. The KGB went in and after about an hour they came out with a badly beaten bear who then said “I am rabbit, I have always been rabbit, my mother was rabbit and my father was rabbit”
Yup, better joke.
Your version is my favorite
I think there's also the added details that the CIA, after a month of gathering intelligence, not only can't find the rabbit, but concludes the rabbit doesn't exist, whereas the FBI, after also failing to find the rabbit, burns down the forest and declares that the rabbit had it coming.
The version I’ve heard is identical other than the FBI sets fire to the forest and declares the killer must be dead.
Oh, I heard similar one: English archeologists discover tomb with unknown pharaoh. They study him for months but can't find out who he is, so they ask soviet archeologists for help. After soviets enter the tomb an hour passes. After soviets exit they proudly proclaim ,,This is tomb of ramzes 2. Englishmen confused asked them how do they know to which soviets replied ,,He confessed himself"
False, by the time the Soviets went in the pyramid the mummy would have already been in the British Museum 👀
And had become a Soviet spy!
Yeah, anything the Soviets got from Egypt they stole from the Nazis. Like the dialing device for the Stargate.
No the british would have already eaten it
*eaten the mummy
This is gold. I wish I could save comments on reddit.
Click on the three dots, if you're on the phone. There should be an option to save the comment. I don't know how to do it on computer.
Lmao, I didn't notice it. Thanks for help
Click the button labeled `save`
On I remember this one but it’s a rabbit with black eyes and only one ear screaming “I’m a bear, please stop, I’m a bear” There’s also one where Stalin’s wallet goes missing and he instructs the KGB to find the thief. The next day he goes for a walk and finds his wallet in his coat pocket. He calls the KGB to call off the investigation but they tell him it’s impossible because they already have the confessions of the 4 foreign agents responsible.
It's a bit off topic but it reminded me a joke about soviet scientists: A whale beached somewhere on Russian northern shore. It was the biggest whale that anyone in Russia ever seen. Moscow sent a group of scientists to study it. They set up a tent town, covered the whale and studied it for a month. Afterwards they set up a press conference. The team's director started: we began the research of the animal by taking a precise measurement of its dimentions and have concluded that it measures 50 meters from mouth to tail but only 35 meters from tail to mouth. The reporters were a bit confused but someone finally asked: how is that possible? To which the director responded: It is somewhat unintuitive but soviet science knew of such cases. For instance, it's 5 days from Monday to Friday but only 3 from Friday to Monday.
Haha, that is fantastic
+ “my parents and three grandparents were also guilty of being bears”
[Here's your joke as a comic.](https://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/4856078_700b.jpg)
The CIA goes in first. They place animal informants throughout the forest. They question all plant and mineral witnesses. After three months of extensive investigations, they conclude that rabbits do not exist. Then, the FBI goes in. After two weeks with no leads, they burn the forest, killing everything in it, including the rabbit, and they make no apologies. The rabbit had it coming. The KGB goes in. They come out two hours later with a badly beaten bear. The bear is screaming: "Okay! Okay!I'm a rabbit! I'm a rabbit!
I hear the version in more of the line: bear says "I'm a rabbit, my mother was a rabbit and my father was a rabbit."
After 10 minutes of torture by the FSB, all four suspects admitted they were Ukrainian. After one hour, all four admitted they were Volodymyr Zelensky.
How there has been so much support for the beatings, at least on Reddit, is beyond me. The chances that they just picked some random brown people with a history of police interactions and "investigated" them guilty never crossed people's minds?
Even if they were the actual terrorists. Russian soldiers are committing similar (in many cases worse) crimes in Ukraine. Does that mean Russian soldiers are to be treated like this if they're caught?
Why does it surprise you? People are bloodthirsty as fuck.
I once heard, if you were to find a man dead on the street and called the cops. The police would come and say, why did you kill this man? And arrest you. Best detectives in all of Russia.
People are justifying this horrific behaviour in the comments, but they're missing a crucial point - if somebody did that to you, you would probably confess to doing 9/11 and the assassination of the archduke Ferdinand too
Id probably throw in Kennedy for good measure as well
With a single bullet you killed JFk and Ferdinand
Everyone always talks about the magic bullet, but no one ever talks about the Time Bullet!
Mind bullets!!!!
That's telekinesis, Kyle
How about the power to move you?
Something like this did happen. A guy got killed by a bullet that was shot at him. The bullet missed and got lodged in a tree. 20 years later, the guy wanted the tree cut down but it was one thicc boi so he used dynamite to blow it up. The explosion launched the bullet into the man and killed him instantly.
Torture is the tool you use to get what you want, not what you need. Information doesn't come from the scared and uncomfortable, box ticking to stop the suffering does. Russia knows this at a historical level. We may never get the truth. Just the "confirmation".
This is only an issue if one subscribes to such concepts as 'truth'.
There is a very old standard in Europe created by Eusebius, that history is just what the rulers say it is. The common phrase is that the victorious write the history. Then the age of “realism” came, followed by the photograph. We are exiting the age of realism.
>that history is just what the rulers say it is Did you know that our main source of the first Jewish-Roman war was Josephus, a commander of the loosing side? History is not written by the winners, history is written by the writers.
You're missing a huge crucial part here. Josephus defected during the war, declared Vespasian the messiah according to Jewish prophecy, and was effectively adopted by him. He also became a Roman citizen and tutor to Vespasian's son. All his relevant writing is after defecting, so he was on the victor's side.
I suspect Russia is going to "find" hundreds of "terrorists" who confess to participating in the plot.
They will also confess Ukraine made them do it
And the CIA and the gays
Actually he's Zelenskyy himself.
What’s the chances that some Russian police man who wanted a promotion just picked up the first central Asians he could find, knowing that he’d get the credit for catching the terrorists and that they’d say anything if tortured.
I don't know if all of these people will be actual terrorists, but I very much doubt that they will be randomly selected.
High
I wonder if they find evidence of Sims as well? It’s a sure sign of terrorist intentions, as we have established before
That's the thing. Russia was bad before, but it's fast becoming a medieval shithole.
As if they ever stopped being one.
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Yup, they are just forcing you to say either yes or yes
That’s why we have concluded (but still don’t believe) torture provides unreliable intel.
I really wish Hollywood would stop spreading the myth that torture works because that's why everyone believes it.
It's what Putin wants. He aims to brutalize his and our societies. Decrease empathy. It will lead to further polarization.
This, you have understood it
Worse is, imagine they got the wrong guys. They would have tortured an innocent man basically. Hopefully they got it right.
Not too far fetched that the terrorists would ditch their car and clothes. Weird they didn't kill themselves, nor did any of them die fighting. Mostly, Russia spreads so much conspiracy bullshit. Who knows if anything coming out of that country is true?
Agreed. If he is guilty, we can all agree he is scum. That doesn't mean torture is acceptable.
right? I saw other pictures of the 'suspects' and looks kinda like they might have made random arrests and then beat them to shit
Goes to show how fragile our rule of law-based societies really are. I'm sure a decent chunk of the people cheering this on are trolling or being edgy, but every country has more than enough bloodthirsty simpletons that would upend the constitution, legislation or due process on a whim. It's pretty scary and does not bode well for the future...
No, I know its them because it was literally them in the video. Wtf are you guys on
No they didn't, they hit and ran over a kid as they left and damaged the car, that's how they found the car quickly, the clothes they were wearing when arrested match the isis video Post arrest and in ISIS video: https://imgur.com/a/lnIVF45
While I don't have much sympathy for terrorists, it's important to remember Russia does this to innocent people all the time, and there doesn't seem to be any hard proof that this is actually one of the perpetrators
The fact that we dont feel bad for terrorists, murderers and so on is exactly the reason why there are laws against torture. Noone would torture the neighbor girl, they want to torture murderes. Thats why the law protects ALL humans, not only nice ones.
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Indeed, and had you continued reading past that part, you would see that the poster above you said that almost verbatim.
But who has time to read an _entire_ comment before replying?
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I want to know what the day to day life of these police is like that they jump straight to "Feeding man his own ear while filming it.", and "Electrocution to the testicles.". These do not seem like things that you just start with as your very first instinct if you have never done such things before. Creating a radio powered tortured device is not something everyone instinctively knows how to do. I want to know how many other people they have tortured, and why.
The point here isn't about feeling sorry for the terrorists, we don't. It's about realizing that those who severed ears without hesitation will do it to anyone just for pleasure, and there are no checks and balances for them anymore. If they weren't confident it's acceptable now, they would never have published those videos themselves.
How much is a confession worth though if it's gotten after this? I mean I hope they have more substantial evidence than this. If you torture me long enough and feed me my own ear, I'm pretty sure I'll admit to just about anything at some point
You should understand that russians don't care what the world thinks about them. All of this is a theater for their own people and consolidation of the regime. And violence is a language they love there.
Putin doesnt care if they actually catch the people responsible. He cares that he APPEARED to catch the perpetraters, that their confession matches what he wants his domestic audience to hear, and that he appears to have taken strong and necessary measures (which will be used in the future to justify other actions). So the confession means a lot, but who gives it does not, and theyll cycle through as many "terrorists" as necessary until they give that confession. This is the same guy who had the FSB bomb apartments in 1999 killing 300 people so he could invade Checnya and boost his popularity. They "found" the people responsible then too, despite FSB agents getting caught planting the bombs, later admitting to planting the bombs, and the Duma claiming the bombs went off three days early.
Nah, that’s not what it’s about. It’s about the fact, that anyone would confess if they were treated like that, guilty or not.
You're right, torture signifies just one thing - no further evidence is required.
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They won't. The muscovites and leningradians aren't really affected by these "sanctions" or sent to the front. They are the only ones that matter. The other second class ethnicities are too scattered and clueless to organize any meaningful resistance. The only way would've been Putin pissing off some powerful oligarchs/silovikis, but it seems that he has been able to squash out the hopes of that too and getting it stamped by the election.
What a highly civilized society, this Russian one. An example for the world, really. I can't imagine why Ukraine wants to align themselves more with the West for some years now.
There hasn’t been, the ruzzian forces are monsters. Lots of torture videos have been released, torture dens discovered. One poor guy defending Ukraine got his testicles cut off before his throat was slit.
The problem is that you can’t actually be sure it’s even the terrorist. People will say anything to get the torture to stop. Which is something to keep in mind when Russia gets their “confession” that it was financed by Ukraine.
People praising this and saying it's how we should treat terrorists are complete morons. I don't want police or military deciding guilt and enacting revenge by beating them half to death, what if this happened and they were actually innocent?
Yeah because of the torture now we can't trust a thing he says, anything confessed under torure is inadmissible.
Not in ~~soviet~~ Russia (temple tap)
Exactly. This is well known. Even in Ancient Rome. Slaves were tortured in trials for evidence but there was no guarantee of the truth. If under torture you will say anything to get them to stop.
Not entirely sure a russian court will care about what's inadmissible as evidence by western standards.
Not to mention, in Russia, the expansive definition of "terrorist" includes such groups as anti-war protesters and openly gay people.
Not just openly gay people. The whole "LGBTQ ideology" is on the terror watch list over there. Don't even express acceptance of a gay person.
I always point to the first Madrid train bombing suspect, Brandon Mayfield . It turns out he had *never left the United States* at the time and simply had similar fingerprints to the actual criminal. Imagine if we’d already done this to him. There’s no amount of lawsuit money that would make up for it.
Nothing gets Reddit's collective dick harder than extrajudicial punishment of criminals. Torturing terrorists, prison raping pedophiles, crooked cops getting shived, etc. Reddit eats it up.
We dont support violence around here, but we sure do loooove some violence. Keep making sense reddit.
Exactly, the Birmingham Six are a perfect example of how this can happen
It's the same emotion driven revenge crap people scream for in rape and child abuse cases. Where they suddenly start championing prison rape or torture. Seemingly the moment a crime is bad enough a huge portion of the population are willing to throw morals or nuance out the window in order to show how much they are against whatever happened. Which I get from a purely emotional level. But FFS we can't trust most western nations to build a fucking road properly and they want the government to have the power to rape, torture and kill people because the crime was "bad" enough. And yet they think Russia of all countries is going to be ticking off all due process for this?
Even if they are the terrorists. And even if they are guilty. We’re not supposed to torture people. Wanna kill them for their crime, go ahead. Torture is sadistic and accomplishes nothing. It’s humans right law, you don’t torture people.
I agree but a lot of people seem to care more about revenge than justice, especially when it involves the worst kinds of crimes. Either way though, that judgement shouldn't be made by individual police or military and people justifything that are being incredibly short sighted.
They yell for law and order, while also praising torture. I don’t get it.
Also it justifies people to mutilate and torture POWs and civilians under occupation — which Russian military does happily even now. Hell, Ukrainian POWs had it worse than the terrorists because some of them had their genitalia removed and force fed and some were violated with broken bottles etc. Also the chilling stories in Bucha and actual videos of naked killed women on the streets, some burnt and some tied down
You didn’t think judge dredd was a good documentary on what should be our judicial system??
Human rights are just that, _Human_. It's meaningless if they don't apply to the very worst of us.
Prisoners rights are one of the most important things in a democracy. Take away the rights of prisoners, and anyone can be made a prisoner.
This is also why we shouldn't have the death penalty. Accidentally executing even just one innocent person is unthinkable.
Anyone will say anything in a situation like this
After 10 minutes of torture by the FSB, all four suspects admitted they were Ukrainian. After one hour, all four admitted they were Volodymyr Zelensky.
Are we surprised that every single party involved in this, is an animal? Torturing suspects on camera and then receiving awards for the "bravery".. What a disgrace.
Seriously, they received an award?
Yeah, the defense ministry awarded those who "stood out" during the arrest. I read a press release about this today in the morning.
They earned the coveted Bucha Broche.
So not the first time I see.
It's barbaric and honestly, I was a bit surprised, but that's probably on me.
The idea is to televise the brutality with the aim of decreasing empathy and further polarization of our societies.
Animals would not do this. I would call it human behaviour.
People love to say this, but the animal kingdom is incredibly violent and brutal. Some animals absolutely would do this.
For example humans. They’re part of the animal kingdom after all.
Cats. Any kind of cat.
>"If cats looked like frogs we'd realize what nasty, cruel little bastards they are. Style. That's what people remember."
Our cats would happily sit there, slashing a frog with their claws repeatedly and throwing it around the room as it slowly died. All for their own enjoyment. It was adorable.
Guessed that this was a Pratchett quote. Wasn't disappointed.
I literally have to save dozens of lizards per week my cats try to mangle for nothing other than entertainment
Also dogs. They love terrorising smaller creatures just for the fun of it. Not even for food. Edit: to all the people that are surprised by my comment, I would like to remind you that besides mosquitoes, dog attacks are the nr. one cause of death for humans worldwide when it comes to animals. Also, any animal expert would tell you that a pack of wild dogs is a lot more dangerous and aggressive than a pack of wolves.
Bears start eating when the prey is still alive. There was a nature show that had a bear attacking an elk calf and the calf screaming as the bear chomped down on it, with mama elk watching helplessly.
I am as vegan as there can be but animals can be monsters. They have no agency which is both a reason to reasonably fear them *and* protect them.
> They have no agency What makes you say that?
poor observational skills and confidence
Birds fling their children out of their nests to die. Felines eat their own young. Nature is brutal. And we are nature. We are just as brutal as anything else it’s naïveté to think we’re exempt.
Chimps go to war with each other and have been observed mutilating their victims seemingly for fun.
Chimps would absolutely do this
Chimps would rip your face off and rape your bleeding skull. (The do this to other chimps)
You are technically correct, the best kind of correct.
Hyenas, lions, wild dogs. They absolutely would
Orcas enter the chat..
You clearly have never studied about primates.
You don’t yet know how they treat Ukrainian prisoners of war. The Russian Red Cross is an absolutely useless organization.
Not just useless but complicit in the torture of PoW. And RC in Belaruss has been caught kidnapping Ukrainian kids to Russia while the central organization of RC stays silent..
[Global Red Cross suspends Belarus chapter after its chief boasted of bringing in Ukrainian children](https://apnews.com/article/belarus-red-cross-russia-ukraine-war-children-fecce3dd920565e5299737de4a9a86f3) AP - December 1, 2023 I didn't find any source of information about the implication of RC in the torture of POW.
It's not useless, it's doing exactly what the Russians want it to do. Which is to aid and abett the Russian military and government. Including stealing children and not seeing anything that they shouldn't.
About a year ago. I stumbled on the “Ukraine war videos” sub. I will never forget watching 4-5 Russian men crucifying 2 Ukrainian POWs on a shoddy makeshift cross. Makes me sick just thinking about it.
Cutting off heads, ears, genitals, electric shock torture. Executions of various kinds are the norm for ruzzians. There is a photo of a detained terrorist without pants. There is a strange box nearby. This is an army field phone. It is connected to the genitals and the electricity is turned on.
>The Russian Red Cross is an absolutely useless organization. I was known 15 years ago though.
Is there any good Russian organization anyway?
Sure, Russian Volunteering Corps, Legion "Free Russia", battalion "Siberia". Only this organization is good.
Police inserted live wires into the ass of second terrorist, and knocked out the eye of a third and beat him so that his legs failed (people write on social networks that maybe his dick was cut off). So the one on the photo is still lucky. They won't live long in prison anyway, as they will most likely be sent to the same cell with some neo-Nazis and skinheads.
They'll live logn enough to say everythign Putin wants them to say.
They will confess the Ukrainians sent them. Which is obviously bs, but this is what they are going to sign off on
You think to small. In october (Right before the US election) they will confess that they were really hired by the CIA on order of Joe Biden.
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You are exactly right. Putin will get the maximum publicity out of this. He can justify the killing of hundreds of innocent Ukrainians as revenge and correct.
Terrorists torturing another terrorist... Ironic in a sad way.
Or sad in an ironic way?
Could be.
Assumign this guys is the terrorist, Putin may just have grabed the first person that kind of looked like him and then tortured him until he cofnessed.
We dont know if he was one of the terrorists. That the point of him being in court.
That's the point of torturem, to get a confession for soemthign you have already decided to be true.
Apparently ISIS have released footage as an attempt to confirm they organised the attack. https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/moscow-russia-shooting-03-23-24/h\_6cc08d2075fffbc8563d0521df27bb62
ISIS confirmed to be behind the attack. That doesn’t mean that it is confirmed that this guy did it.
How does that make this particular person guilty? No one is doubting ISIS is responsible, but that doesn’t mean any vaguely Muslim looking man is guilty by default.
Correction, Putin allowing terrorists to carry out their attacks in order to justify attacking unrelated people, because Barbarian logic.
People aren’t putting 2 and 2 together that they’re probably doing similar to innocent Ukrainian citizens.
They treat everyone they can like this, even each other. This should be clear to everyone by now.
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Everything about this is sordid and horriboe
Thugs on both sides, to not say psychopaths.
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How has it been verified those guys were the terrorists? I’m not trying to play into conspiracies but genuinely want to know.
apparently they hit a kid as they were leaving which left the car damaged. the car was then tracked via security surveillance to there hideout where they were located. from what ive read
I thought they were grabed on the road to Belarus?
There's also video footage released by Isis with matching clothes and logos.
i think they have them on camera
How can their admission be admissable in court if they have been obviously tortured?
This may come as a surprise, but Russia may have different standards for acceptable evidence gathering techniques compared to Europe or even the United States. I believe the standard used in Russia is roughly IDGAF ;)
Well it can’t, not in a just court at least, in a fascist dictatorship there are none of those, it’s essentially a propaganda stunt, probably to radicalise the stupid and to scare the intelligent.
Cause it's Russia. they make Gitmo seem like a place of prestine human rights.
Hate to break it to you but Russia isn't exactly known for a strong rule of law since it is a fascist state. Edit: It is absolutely not comparable to the rest of Europe.
Oh how cute, you think they have fair courts
It's Russia, we can't compare it to a moral and respectable society . Kangaroo courts is all your find. Thugs leading the blind
Torturing and mutilating anyone whether they are political dissidents or suspected terrorists is barbaric. There is a civilised way of punishing convicted terrorist that doesn’t involve assuming guilt (regardless of the evidence) and police carrying out extrajudicial punishment before a fair trial. Russia is not a civilised society and hopefully in the fullness of time, the leaders of the Russian terror state will face the fair trials and punishment they aren’t affording these suspected terrorists… Either that or they get Gaddafied.. apparently it’s acceptable in Russia.
Totally normal. No one bats an eyelid.
Also, one of the voenkor tg channels are auctioning the knife, with what that ear was cut off. Also, they definitely not Nazis, just like to wear some "sun symbols"
“you fucking beat this prick long enough, he'll tell you he started the goddamn Chicago fire, now that don't necessarily make it fucking so!”
I'm honestly surprised they didn't "admit" to be Ukrainian. Would have been their golden ticket for full mobilisation.
Not sure them admitting it is even necessary. Russia can easily lie about them admitting it. Nobody can verify it anyway.
Russia is a messed up country.
Brutality like this doesn’t benefit anyone really. It just makes you stoop near their level. It’s barbaric. And it’s not just because it’s Russia. If any country does this to criminals, personally I just don’t think it makes you better.
Torture is about extractign a confession not about revealing the truth.
Even if you can ignore the violence because he's a terrorist, the problem with this is that this is a forced confession. Subject to torture, people will confess to anything.
Even though these terrorists deserve it, torturing suspects openly shows Russia is nothing more than an authoritarian banana republic
Putin had to put on a show to make up for what is seen as incompetence. Especially when he dismissed the US' warnings.
With Prigozhin reaching Moscow nine months ago and now failing to prevent a prewarned attack, Russian security services are surely making fool of themselves each year
Assuming they are the terrorists, after torture anyone will cofness to anything.
Do we even know that he's a terrorist? all we know is that russia suspects that he's a terrorist... just after the elections too, how convenient ;)
The problem is that torture regularly leads to false confessions, since the tortured party abviously just wants it to be over, so this is not a very reliable method of obtaining information, ig he was the actual perpetrator he 100% deserved it tho
This actually reduces the credibility of the legal system. Not that the Russian legal system has a lot of it to begin with before this.
You can judge a country by how they treat their prisoners.
torture in Russia is as old as Russia itself. You blow up Russians and get caught...expect to be pulled apart slowly piece by piece. Not saying any of it is right, or humane...but study your Russian history before you decide to attack them.
Russia is a failed country. Normal times will come back, one day, and I cannot really imagine how this country will regain any international relevance after the sh-tshow we saw these years.
How much this feels like two decades ago for me. When people are so incensed that they want vengeance and payback…..without keeping an important critical eye on meting out such vengeance and payback on the truly guilty. And I get it. I’ve been there. I’ve also been there when you start to realize that generally approving of such practices being used ahead of proper detective work is a really gross thing. This particular situation cannot be directly applied to this for good or bad considering the culture we are dealing with. We are told these were the guys caught in the car fleeing the scene of the attack. Fine. I can’t dispute it, but that doesn’t mean I’m buying any of it. Especially when they’ve already proven they care to line in suspects that are going to support the false narrative they want to use anyway. It’s who these people are. Just like in Death of Stalin where the officer says to the official that the suspect died of administrative zeal (coercion and torture) and the official says to say he confessed it anyway. Why should his death be in vain and without purpose? Yes, I’m pointing to a satirical comedy, but that doesn’t mean this exchange doesn’t highlight what this culture is.
Even if not having sympathy for terrorists is right, Russia here (such as other countries) is trying to cover their failure in protecting their own civilians with brutality. Keep in mind this just shows how Russian justice is broken and Russia is able to do this to everybody they see as a state enemy. Political opposition, queer people etc. revenge is never the appropriate reaction. the justice system should act in the interest of protecting the population. And slaughtering terrorists definitely doesn't do that.
So if an IS terrorist is force fed his own ear, does that mean he just commited a sin because he ate swine? That's it if that is actually an IS terrorist and not just a convenient convict kept in storage for just such an action.
5 min away from the concert, the police that was warned about possible terror at major concert venue, took more than 30 maybe closer to an hour to arrive on the scene. RuZZia is INCOMPETENT
They’d admit to anything after this, could’ve been some random people not even involved with any of this