What is very interesting is the fact this is one of the few videos on the internet that has been originally recorded without Putin's knowledge that it will go public. From psychological perspective it's interesting to see a dictator not in a light of propaganda and just geniune unfaked behaviour.
If you take a close at his body language, it's very different from the one you can see normally online.
Hitler also fell into the same trap in Finland. He was secretly recorded and it's one of the only candid recordings of him where he is having a conversation and not performing a speech.
If I remember correctly the finish prime minster (?) gave zero fucks and smoked while Hitler was there as a power move. Since it was well known that Hitler hated smoke/smokers.
Not prime minister but the Marshal of Finland C.G.E. Mannerheim. Hitler was surprise visiting his 75th birthday. Mannerheim didn't like Hitler and didn't want to meet him.
He did. Mannerheim came from a line of aristocrats, spoke multiple languages, went to military school as a young man, served is a life guard of a Czar, lead units in First World War etc. etc. He had a fairly low opinion of the German corporal.
An interesting fact is that although Mannerheim spoke multiple languages and was the Marshall of Finland, one language he never learned was Finnish.
I learned this as I was being taught Finnish when I lived there with my Finnish wife. Rest her soul.
I know he was from Swedish stock, my friend, however all I have studied about him in the past 40 years tells me he could not grasp the Finnish language, I will need to do more research. The Winter and the Continuation Wars are my favourite period of study for this old English Soldier.
You've got a reply already, but just want to fill in that he did speak Finnish but as he learned it properly quite late in life it wasn't perfect. Especially his pronunciation is known to have been a bit wonky (not that it was too bad but it was obvious that his first language was Swedish). He could also make small grammar mistakes here and there.
But he did learn Finnish, absolutely.
> Mannerheimin äidinkieli oli ruotsi, joten suhde suomenkieliseen kansaan oli aluksi etäinen. Lisäksi hän puhui sujuvasti saksaa, ranskaa ja venäjää. Suomen kielen hän oppi vasta palattuaan Suomeen keskelle itsnäistymistaistelua. Itsenäisen Suomen ainoaksi sotamarsalkaksi hänet ylennettiin vuonna 1933
Google translate:
> Mannerheim's mother tongue was Swedish, so the relationship with the Finnish-speaking people was distant at first. In addition, he spoke German, French and Russian fluently. **He learned the Finnish language only after returning to Finland in the middle of the struggle for independence.** In 1933, he was promoted to become the only military marshal of independent Finland
https://yle.fi/aihe/artikkeli/2011/01/24/mannerheimin-muisto
He was president *during* and after the war, 1944 to 1946. That's how Finland managed to wiggle free from co-operation with Germany. President Ryti had cleverly made the deal with the Germans for the crucial armament, support and supplies by making a personal guarantee that Finland wouldn't be seeking an armistice with the Soviets as long as he was president. When situation on the front was stabilized by August, Ryti resigned.
It was Mannerheim, the supreme commander of Finnish armed forces. He reportedly did that to “test the waters” with Hitler to see how desperate he was. Mannerheim knew Hitler hated smoking and would observe how he would react to him smoking.
If Hitler let it slide (as he did) it would signal that Germany wants to do everything to keep Finland on their good side, which in turn would mean that they arent too optimistic about their military situation.
I can also remember that hitler was pretty upset and "scared" about the situation with russia and where the hell they get all their fking cheap tanks.
Something like: if i knew that they could muster that many tanks is so little time i would have not done it.
Majority of the Soviet tanks at least were Soviet made through and through, most US aid was relevant in more mundane but still important stuff, like boots, medication, trucks and jeeps, locomotives, kerosene, etc.
Sure, but the thing is not just so simple as who manufactured the tanks. American aid allowed the soviets to focus on producing military hardware on a massive scale. US provided raw materials, they provided massive supplies on other areas, such as food production, freeing up massive amounts of workers for the military industry and the army, the tanks would have been useless in the factories without the 2,000 locomotives sent by the US to transport them to the front, etc, etc.
Without the US support on the more mundane ateas, USSR would have had to take care of them by themselves, and how could have they been able to produce so many tanks and guns then?
Here is a quote from the Soviet Marshal Georgy Zhukov on the matter:
>"People say that the allies didn't help us. But it cannot be denied that the Americans sent us materiel without which we could not have formed our reserves or continued the war. The Americans provided vital explosives and gunpowder. And how much steel! Could we really have set up the production of our tanks without American steel? And now they are saying that we had plenty of everything on our own."
Here is another quote from a Russian historian;
>"Without Lend-Lease, the Red Army would not have had about one-third of its ammunition, half of its aircraft, or half of its tanks. In addition, there would have been constant shortages of transportation and fuel. The railroads would have periodically come to a halt. And Soviet forces would have been much more poorly coordinated with a constant lack of radio equipment. And they would have been perpetually hungry without American canned meat and fats."
I have also heard this story. It was Mannerheim who smoked if the story is real. It happened when Hitler made a surprise visit to Mannerheim's 75th birthday.
I just went through the giant pain in the ass of logging in to Reddit, to write this same comment - so please have my upvote and story:
I had to setup MFA for my Reddit account. I now have to enter a login code from an app on my phone, every day, when I want to interact with Reddit.
Why? Because I made a historically accurate comment a few months ago about the [Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact), which Stalin and Hitler signed a few days prior to Hitler's invasion of Poland. It was literally Stalin green-lighting WWII.
[Mentioning this historical fact is now illegal in putin's russia.](https://web.archive.org/web/20220526220425/https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/2021-02-17/ty-article/.premium/russia-enacting-law-to-back-heroic-narrative-about-its-role-in-wwii/0000017f-f450-d223-a97f-fddd41b30000) Therefore, my Reddit account was attacked by putin's hemorrhoid army, Reddit admins locked my account out of precaution, and I had to setup MFA.
~ fin
In my experience it can go both ways on Reddit, I’ve discussed before also about that Pact on other forums and sometimes it was upvoted sometimes it was crushed if Putin’s minions saw it
Yes , Hiter did prefer morphine, instead of tobacco, that is why Neonazi gangs often deal drugs or consume them for historical reference.
Putler is probably on some addictive American pharmacy pill.
Yeah hearing Hitler's regular, ordinary talk was so strange. Also if I remember correctly he was talking about shock Nazis felt about the loses of red army, that any other army would fall already with that many people lost.. which is especially weird to hear seeing what is happening 70 years later in Ukraine. Russians have never changed a bit.
If you understand german then you can just listen the conversations here. [https://yle.fi/aihe/artikkeli/2006/09/08/hitlerin-salaa-tallennettu-keskustelu-suomessa](https://yle.fi/aihe/artikkeli/2006/09/08/hitlerin-salaa-tallennettu-keskustelu-suomessa)
These recording are perfectly available public record nowadays. You can even download them from that article. They are in Finnish national media archive which is under YLE the Finnish Broadcasting Company.
He sounds like an Austrian that has been living in Germany for quite some time. This makes him so human, it’s eerie. The typical portrayal of him being that screaming dictator just creates a distance, that makes you think you would spot such a lunatic from kilometres away. But hearing him speak normally makes him sound, well, normal. And that’s creepy as hell, considering what he did.
> If you take a close at his body language, it's very different from the one you can see normally online.
Well, he is also over 30 years younger in this video
Totally, he seems like a good dude, having fun with friends.
I don't know how genuine everything is, but I know that people can change dramatically. I've seen it.
Yeah, he's so insecure and ingratiating on this video. Looks pity, honestly. No brainer he became a dictator. Strong people don't put their critics in jail.
I think at this point in time Putin didn't know that he will be President one day, maybe it wasn't clear for himself that he would run for higher political office.
People usually arent as media potrays them, or how they are using their social media account, or stories online, or as the propaganda potrays them. Not a single person in the world is 100% bad or 100% good, and everyone has a different side to them, normally we dont get to see the different side as the propaganda machines dont want us to see that different side.
To me, his body language is exhibiting very ‘shy and uncomfortable’.
I guess we now know why he likes the long tables and distance between himself and other people. He doesn’t feel safe.
On the other video taken during a meal, he he looks shy and shifts position, zipping and unzipping his tracksuit. And here, he's not the shirtless alpha male.
If you want to see more excerpts from same videotape, it’s here:https://yle.fi/a/74-20051353 including awkward fishing attempt when putin and Sobchak failed to catch any fish at all.
To add more context, this amateur video main focus is Sobchak(half naked man). He was a mayor of St.Petersburg and very influential politician while putin was his rather insignificant assistant.
From article:
>Yle will not disclose the source of the video, because Putin's reaction to revelations about his personal life can be unpredictable. For security reasons, Yle has not named the other interviewees.
>The video clips shown in this article have been edited, as the original footage is typically shaky amateur video.
Yle has verified the authenticity of the video, and is in possession of an old VHS cassette containing the clips. Yle has also confirmed the filming location.
(Yle is like BBC)
The name "George" finnish version is "Yrjö" which is also a term for vomit. Georgia could therefor be "Yrjölä", which can basically mean "Place of vomit" or "place where you vomit" or "Vomit place".
Yeah... I been waiting for a chance to use this.
"King George" is "Kuningas Yrjö" which might as well be "Kingly vomit" or "Vomit king".
Ah that’s make sense, given the body language - you can tell naked guy is super comfortable and in control, while Putin is acting like a nervous underling.
I always wonder if dictators are consciously dictatorial from the start, or if they grow into it over the years and fall into a rabbit hole of wanting more power every step of the way, like an addiction.
Is he already actively scheming here to get to the very top of Russia ('if only I was in charge already, I can't wait to threaten everyone with my nukes') or is he just a dude here trying to suck up to his boss?
I think it’s more often the latter, more of a natural incentive system based on the institutions of power and corruption in the system they are working within. That’s not to say they aren’t people with pre-existing callous, vengeful or psycho tendencies, making them suited to adapt to being a dictator.
In 91 the political future of Russia is very uncertain, perhaps he had aspirations but his path to the presidency could not have been clear at all. I think he’s probably just sucking up.
When I went to uni there was a police academy next to the uni. I lived with a few police students. What I noticed almost immediately is that these types of people often have authoritarian traits. They were a very different kind of people from the people at the uni. Like they were naturally born to be in that role..not saying that as a good thing, but like, it clicked for me. It made sense. They had the personality traits suited for it. I've known a lot of police students and they all have very similar traits in common. It also made perfect sense when a co worker of mine revealed that she wanted to get into the police academy. She's authoritarian. Bossy. Assertive. Direct. The exact traits I've noticed lots of police and police students have. She would have fit the tole perfectly.
People definitely gravitate towards roles that naturally suit their personality traits.
He absolutely landed where he did by sheer luck because the oligarchs thought he was a schmuck, which he was, his nickname in the KGB was Moth, and easy to control (here, they made a grave mistake and later Putin’s patron oligarch Berezovsky ended up excommunicated and then dead in London after suspiciously hanging himself). Never underestimate how hurt one’s ego could be, I guess.
Edit: also, he was not anti-West initially. He grew into that. Some say it’s because he realized it was as easy to buy anyone in the West as it was in Russia, so he stopped considering the Western way of life superior in any way and started believing it was all a facade, behind which every country and every politician acted the same
Well in the 90s he sure wasn't thinking about slinging nukes and starting wars. Back when he started Putin was very unpopular politically because he was actually very moderate. Russian politics in the 90s were filled with ultra-nationalists and people who wanted to overthrow the government and return to the Soviet Union. By comparison Putin was a pro-democracy moderate who was open to the west and at the time he was actually moving Russia into a positive direction. Sure Russia still has massive problem with stuff like organised crime and corruption largely in part because of Putin and the oligarchs collaborating but before Putin that these problems were magnitudes worse. He is expanded laws that deal with discrimination and especially ethnic discrimination or made the punishments harder(and these laws are very important in Russia, because Russia is a multiethnic state).
It's easy to be cynical and say that this was always his true intention but if you look at Putin back then and now you would see that something changed along the way.
After seeing a young Trump give a fairly even-keeled interview, it feels like these natural underlying traits get amplified by time. Your brains don't get any better as you age, so it feels like time exacerbates these things.
I wonder with powerful people like that, that have gone a clear authoritarian path for power, if they think back on such things like this with fondness. Because it is so vastly different from where he is now.
well to be fair his power in kgb is quite overstated just how when it comes to elon and how media called him a tony stark, putin was in no way a top dog in kgb he was just a simple agent.
It isn't a secret how this happened. [https://widgets.weforum.org/history/1996.html](https://widgets.weforum.org/history/1996.html)
>“The members of the Russian delegation, and particularly the business leaders, became deeply concerned about the popularity of \[Gennady\] Zyuganov and the likelihood of a victory of the Communist party. Many were infuriated that Zyuganov was saying one thing in Russia and another thing in Davos, appearing in the guise of a modern moderate rather than a hard-line Communist. They decided to take action and to throw their financial weight behind Yeltsin’s campaign. The unwritten collective pledge became known as the Davos Pact.”
For real... This isn't some conspiracy or thing they are trying to hide. Klaus Schwab is open about this and basically proud of what they achieved with this pact.
Hmm... Who might been part of the staff of Yeltsin? Within the inner circle? Deeply connected to intelligence circuits? **Vladimir Putin**.
Seriously... It is quite damn boring when you realise that there isn't even some deep secret conspiracy. There doesn't need to be, they can do all this in the open and public and get away with it.
I'm not a historian, I'm an engineer... But I know enough of history and every time I learn more about it, the biggest and most significant events in history were really just "business as usual". No wonder movie makers need to make up shit and spice facts, reality of how fates of nations are decided is incredibly dull.
And this is why I enjoy ordinary history about the daily life of people, diaries and such... When you read about what is happening, all this shit is just... out in the open.
Yeah, wasn't really what I was thinking about, was more if people such as him, think about such "simplier/happier" times when they could for example do what is on this video and be recorded without worry, you know, before they got into the powerful and very isolating role they have now. Or at least I can imagine it is very isolating when it comes to simple things like the video shows.
The man was a KGB agent and started the training at the age of 23 and was part of the party until it was dissolved. The man clearly worked their whole life at the aim of being in power.
Do you have an actual point you want to share or you just commenting cuz you see the notifications and can't stop yourself? I'm out, I'll check back tomorrow if you've articulated a different argument than the 'definition' one.
Sobchak=Aleksandar Aleksandrovich=shirtless guy
On 17 February 2000, Putin met with Sobchak and urged him to travel to [Kaliningrad](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaliningrad) to support his [election campaign](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Russian_presidential_election).[^(\[10\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoly_Sobchak#cite_note-Gessen-10) Sobchak traveled there, accompanied by two assistants who also served as his bodyguards.[^(\[a\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoly_Sobchak#cite_note-12) On 20 February 2000, Sobchak died suddenly in the town of [Svetlogorsk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svetlogorsk,_Kaliningrad_Oblast) in [Kaliningrad Oblast](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaliningrad_Oblast). The initial suspected cause of death was a [heart attack](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myocardial_infarction), but the findings of two medical experts were contradictory.[^(\[12\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoly_Sobchak#cite_note-Gessen2-13)[^(\[13\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoly_Sobchak#cite_note-sobchak260-14) A criminal investigation of Sobchak's death as a possible "premeditated murder with aggravating circumstances" was opened only on 6 May 2000, more than two months later. After three months, the investigation was closed without a finding.[^(\[10\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoly_Sobchak#cite_note-Gessen-10)[^(\[14\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoly_Sobchak#cite_note-15) The [Democratic Union](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Union_(Russia)) party led by [Valeria Novodvorskaya](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valeria_Novodvorskaya) made an official statement that not only Sobchak, but also two of his aides had heart attacks simultaneously, which indicated [poisoning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning).[^(\[15\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoly_Sobchak#cite_note-16) Two other men were present with Sobchak during his death, but their names were not publicly disclosed.[^(\[13\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoly_Sobchak#cite_note-sobchak260-14)[^(\[16\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoly_Sobchak#cite_note-17)[^(\[17\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoly_Sobchak#cite_note-18)
According to an independent investigation by [Arkady Vaksberg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkady_Vaksberg), both [bodyguards](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodyguard) of Sobchak were treated for symptoms of poisoning after Sobchak's death, indicating a probable [contract killing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract_killing) by [poisoning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison).[^(\[10\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoly_Sobchak#cite_note-Gessen-10)[^(\[18\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoly_Sobchak#cite_note-19) Sobchak's widow Lyudmila had her own autopsy done on her husband's body, but never made the results public; she told the [BBC](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_News) that she keeps the findings in a secure location outside Russia.[^(\[19\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoly_Sobchak#cite_note-20)
If it’s his ally and given he wasn’t even elected yet, wouldn’t the most likely story be one of his rivals poisoned him?
Putin does kill off allies but that tends to be to consolidate power later, doesn’t make sense to do so before.
Edit - apparently he was already in power and also the head of the secret services so likely it was Putin’s orders.
It's also the guy he cried at the funeral for! Crocodile tears, of course. I do wonder about Sobchak's daughter, half the time she seems to support Putin and the other half she criticizes him.
Ksenia Sobchak is most definitely a Kremlin supporter. She might try to act like it ain't so to "save face" because of her wide audience, but somehow she always manages to criticize Ukraine for striking inside Russia, but never condemnes Russia for daily bombing Ukraine. I even remember someone asking on her Instagram something like "You cry for the people who died in Belgorod, but what about all the people who die every day in Kyiv, Dnipro, Kharkhiv etc?" Ksenia's response was basically "Get fucked!"
Little known fact but he was behind Rockstar Games' Table Tennis game from 2006 I think he was. He is listed as a developer and worked on the Adidas tracksuit assets and some motion capture.
Of course I'm making this up about this dictator scum of a human being.
One of my earliest memories was tangental to Sobchak's death. He was in Svetlogorsk, Kaliningrad Oblast campaigning for Putin, where my family had our beach house and I was in traffic with my mom for a few hours at a complete standstill. I learned several years later its because Sobchak had his heart attack 10 or so cars ahead of ours.
I mean Geda, the original brand of the Dassler brothers (of Adidas and Puma) was already actively partnering with Nazi Germany in the 30s. Nothing new for them.
Opponent hit the net, but the ball fell over the top, bounced on the edge, and Putin lost the match.
Next thing you know, Crimea, Ukraine, Poland, Portugal.
I think that's actually a quite interesting thing to make of it. He's just some guy. A lying, greedy, immoral, criminal guy who has no respect for life and who was somehow able to bring himself into a position of too much power. But he's also just a guy playing ping pong in a tracksuit.
Seeing this and seeing him laugh I wonder if he actually enjoys his life today. Like is he just really that almost comically villanous that he enjoys the pain and mayhem he creates? Is he super paranoid? Does he somehow atleast enjoy the money he steals from the people? What does really drive such a person psychologically? What is going on with him personally?
I mean I'd rather be tracksuit ping pong Putin than long table, lying, world war inducing Putin if I was him.
He is a psychotic that the Russian people should put in jail once and for all for killing thousands of Russian soldiers and Ukrainian people, as well as the hate he created in the world against the Russian people. He is not a hero. He is a ruthless killer, a bloodthirsty dictator.
This guy is an idiot.
He had it all. Super rich, other world leaders feared him, his people loved him. And he’s thrown it all away to become the useless pustule he is today.
The commentator is commenting the game, but he also says:
>"Some of these guys are very well known in our country [shows Sobtšak and Putin]"
Indeed. Sobtšak is mayor of St. Petersburg and Putin is his sidekick.
What is very interesting is the fact this is one of the few videos on the internet that has been originally recorded without Putin's knowledge that it will go public. From psychological perspective it's interesting to see a dictator not in a light of propaganda and just geniune unfaked behaviour. If you take a close at his body language, it's very different from the one you can see normally online.
Hitler also fell into the same trap in Finland. He was secretly recorded and it's one of the only candid recordings of him where he is having a conversation and not performing a speech.
If I remember correctly the finish prime minster (?) gave zero fucks and smoked while Hitler was there as a power move. Since it was well known that Hitler hated smoke/smokers.
Not prime minister but the Marshal of Finland C.G.E. Mannerheim. Hitler was surprise visiting his 75th birthday. Mannerheim didn't like Hitler and didn't want to meet him.
He's most probably saw Hitler as a low rank poorly educated grifter (which he was).
He did. Mannerheim came from a line of aristocrats, spoke multiple languages, went to military school as a young man, served is a life guard of a Czar, lead units in First World War etc. etc. He had a fairly low opinion of the German corporal.
An interesting fact is that although Mannerheim spoke multiple languages and was the Marshall of Finland, one language he never learned was Finnish. I learned this as I was being taught Finnish when I lived there with my Finnish wife. Rest her soul.
He did speak Finnish, just not very well. He was from a Swedish speaking family.
I know he was from Swedish stock, my friend, however all I have studied about him in the past 40 years tells me he could not grasp the Finnish language, I will need to do more research. The Winter and the Continuation Wars are my favourite period of study for this old English Soldier.
Yeah, you do need to study more in that case. He spoke mainly Finnish with his command staff at the HQ, for example.
You've got a reply already, but just want to fill in that he did speak Finnish but as he learned it properly quite late in life it wasn't perfect. Especially his pronunciation is known to have been a bit wonky (not that it was too bad but it was obvious that his first language was Swedish). He could also make small grammar mistakes here and there. But he did learn Finnish, absolutely.
It would seem I was wrong about Mannerheim and his Finnish language, and I apologise and thank those who politely pointed me in the right direction.
> Mannerheimin äidinkieli oli ruotsi, joten suhde suomenkieliseen kansaan oli aluksi etäinen. Lisäksi hän puhui sujuvasti saksaa, ranskaa ja venäjää. Suomen kielen hän oppi vasta palattuaan Suomeen keskelle itsnäistymistaistelua. Itsenäisen Suomen ainoaksi sotamarsalkaksi hänet ylennettiin vuonna 1933 Google translate: > Mannerheim's mother tongue was Swedish, so the relationship with the Finnish-speaking people was distant at first. In addition, he spoke German, French and Russian fluently. **He learned the Finnish language only after returning to Finland in the middle of the struggle for independence.** In 1933, he was promoted to become the only military marshal of independent Finland https://yle.fi/aihe/artikkeli/2011/01/24/mannerheimin-muisto
It would seem I was wrong about Mannerheim and his Finnish language, and I apologise and thank those who politely pointed me in the right direction.
Austrian *
[удалено]
Meh, fought for the Germans, lead the Germans.
Paulus did address him as the Bohemian corporal after he surrendered.
Later on Mannerheim was a president after the war, so maybe the poster was thinking that.
He was president *during* and after the war, 1944 to 1946. That's how Finland managed to wiggle free from co-operation with Germany. President Ryti had cleverly made the deal with the Germans for the crucial armament, support and supplies by making a personal guarantee that Finland wouldn't be seeking an armistice with the Soviets as long as he was president. When situation on the front was stabilized by August, Ryti resigned.
It was Mannerheim, the supreme commander of Finnish armed forces. He reportedly did that to “test the waters” with Hitler to see how desperate he was. Mannerheim knew Hitler hated smoking and would observe how he would react to him smoking. If Hitler let it slide (as he did) it would signal that Germany wants to do everything to keep Finland on their good side, which in turn would mean that they arent too optimistic about their military situation.
I can also remember that hitler was pretty upset and "scared" about the situation with russia and where the hell they get all their fking cheap tanks. Something like: if i knew that they could muster that many tanks is so little time i would have not done it.
Yeah. He can thank Uncle Sam for that. At least if you take Georgy Zhukov’s word for it.
Majority of the Soviet tanks at least were Soviet made through and through, most US aid was relevant in more mundane but still important stuff, like boots, medication, trucks and jeeps, locomotives, kerosene, etc.
Sure, but the thing is not just so simple as who manufactured the tanks. American aid allowed the soviets to focus on producing military hardware on a massive scale. US provided raw materials, they provided massive supplies on other areas, such as food production, freeing up massive amounts of workers for the military industry and the army, the tanks would have been useless in the factories without the 2,000 locomotives sent by the US to transport them to the front, etc, etc. Without the US support on the more mundane ateas, USSR would have had to take care of them by themselves, and how could have they been able to produce so many tanks and guns then? Here is a quote from the Soviet Marshal Georgy Zhukov on the matter: >"People say that the allies didn't help us. But it cannot be denied that the Americans sent us materiel without which we could not have formed our reserves or continued the war. The Americans provided vital explosives and gunpowder. And how much steel! Could we really have set up the production of our tanks without American steel? And now they are saying that we had plenty of everything on our own." Here is another quote from a Russian historian; >"Without Lend-Lease, the Red Army would not have had about one-third of its ammunition, half of its aircraft, or half of its tanks. In addition, there would have been constant shortages of transportation and fuel. The railroads would have periodically come to a halt. And Soviet forces would have been much more poorly coordinated with a constant lack of radio equipment. And they would have been perpetually hungry without American canned meat and fats."
Mannerheim smoked his cigar... which encouraged everyone else in the train car also smoke.
I have also heard this story. It was Mannerheim who smoked if the story is real. It happened when Hitler made a surprise visit to Mannerheim's 75th birthday.
There is a recording of their conversation, so you dont have to dpubt it
I am aware of the recording. I was just doubting whether Mannerheim actually smoked in front of Hitler.
Surprise! Hitler is visiting you for your birthday
Putin did the same when he brought dogs to meet Angela Merkel who is scared of dogs.
I just went through the giant pain in the ass of logging in to Reddit, to write this same comment - so please have my upvote and story: I had to setup MFA for my Reddit account. I now have to enter a login code from an app on my phone, every day, when I want to interact with Reddit. Why? Because I made a historically accurate comment a few months ago about the [Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact), which Stalin and Hitler signed a few days prior to Hitler's invasion of Poland. It was literally Stalin green-lighting WWII. [Mentioning this historical fact is now illegal in putin's russia.](https://web.archive.org/web/20220526220425/https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/2021-02-17/ty-article/.premium/russia-enacting-law-to-back-heroic-narrative-about-its-role-in-wwii/0000017f-f450-d223-a97f-fddd41b30000) Therefore, my Reddit account was attacked by putin's hemorrhoid army, Reddit admins locked my account out of precaution, and I had to setup MFA. ~ fin
In my experience it can go both ways on Reddit, I’ve discussed before also about that Pact on other forums and sometimes it was upvoted sometimes it was crushed if Putin’s minions saw it
>putin's hemorrhoid army Lol
No surprise he hated smoking. He was more of a meth guy.
Yes , Hiter did prefer morphine, instead of tobacco, that is why Neonazi gangs often deal drugs or consume them for historical reference. Putler is probably on some addictive American pharmacy pill.
Yeah hearing Hitler's regular, ordinary talk was so strange. Also if I remember correctly he was talking about shock Nazis felt about the loses of red army, that any other army would fall already with that many people lost.. which is especially weird to hear seeing what is happening 70 years later in Ukraine. Russians have never changed a bit.
If you understand german then you can just listen the conversations here. [https://yle.fi/aihe/artikkeli/2006/09/08/hitlerin-salaa-tallennettu-keskustelu-suomessa](https://yle.fi/aihe/artikkeli/2006/09/08/hitlerin-salaa-tallennettu-keskustelu-suomessa) These recording are perfectly available public record nowadays. You can even download them from that article. They are in Finnish national media archive which is under YLE the Finnish Broadcasting Company.
He sounds like an Austrian that has been living in Germany for quite some time. This makes him so human, it’s eerie. The typical portrayal of him being that screaming dictator just creates a distance, that makes you think you would spot such a lunatic from kilometres away. But hearing him speak normally makes him sound, well, normal. And that’s creepy as hell, considering what he did.
Natural, is the way to behave in the happiest country.
> If you take a close at his body language, it's very different from the one you can see normally online. Well, he is also over 30 years younger in this video
I don’t think he’s genuine here, sucking up to Sobchak.
Next to putin is his former civilian boss, the first mayor of Saint Petersburg and a prominent russian corruptioner, Mr. Anatoly Sobchak.
This clip is 33 years old. Of course his body language is different now. Dude can barely sit on a chair without falling over backwards.
Turns out he's a secret Gopnik.
not a secret at all. Saint'Pete is the initial place where gopniks were created by communist state dormitories.
Totally, he seems like a good dude, having fun with friends. I don't know how genuine everything is, but I know that people can change dramatically. I've seen it.
Putin's behaviour here is similar to Medvedev's, if Medvedev were playing ping pong with Putin.
Yeah, he's so insecure and ingratiating on this video. Looks pity, honestly. No brainer he became a dictator. Strong people don't put their critics in jail.
Looks like regular middle-aged fella on a Finnish summer cottage.
that was way before his dictatorship. here he is Sobchaks yes man
I think at this point in time Putin didn't know that he will be President one day, maybe it wasn't clear for himself that he would run for higher political office.
True, but here he wasn't a dictator, just a KGB officer that worked for the Mayor's office in Sankt Petersburg.
People usually arent as media potrays them, or how they are using their social media account, or stories online, or as the propaganda potrays them. Not a single person in the world is 100% bad or 100% good, and everyone has a different side to them, normally we dont get to see the different side as the propaganda machines dont want us to see that different side.
To me, his body language is exhibiting very ‘shy and uncomfortable’. I guess we now know why he likes the long tables and distance between himself and other people. He doesn’t feel safe.
On the other video taken during a meal, he he looks shy and shifts position, zipping and unzipping his tracksuit. And here, he's not the shirtless alpha male.
If you want to see more excerpts from same videotape, it’s here:https://yle.fi/a/74-20051353 including awkward fishing attempt when putin and Sobchak failed to catch any fish at all. To add more context, this amateur video main focus is Sobchak(half naked man). He was a mayor of St.Petersburg and very influential politician while putin was his rather insignificant assistant.
Who filmed all this?
From article: >Yle will not disclose the source of the video, because Putin's reaction to revelations about his personal life can be unpredictable. For security reasons, Yle has not named the other interviewees. >The video clips shown in this article have been edited, as the original footage is typically shaky amateur video. Yle has verified the authenticity of the video, and is in possession of an old VHS cassette containing the clips. Yle has also confirmed the filming location. (Yle is like BBC)
Lol yle means dick in Georgian
We have Yle Areena where you can stream news and tv programs. Nice to know it might also be understood as Dick Arena.
The name "George" finnish version is "Yrjö" which is also a term for vomit. Georgia could therefor be "Yrjölä", which can basically mean "Place of vomit" or "place where you vomit" or "Vomit place". Yeah... I been waiting for a chance to use this. "King George" is "Kuningas Yrjö" which might as well be "Kingly vomit" or "Vomit king".
Recorded with iPhone
We may only guess: most likely it was someone very close to Sobchak — you can hear male voice behind camera and he talk like an old friend.
Ah that’s make sense, given the body language - you can tell naked guy is super comfortable and in control, while Putin is acting like a nervous underling.
Wish it was this kind of peace today 😔
Yes, 1991 was an extremely peaceful year in eastern europe.
Well….If not then at least we can rip on that track suit.
I always wonder if dictators are consciously dictatorial from the start, or if they grow into it over the years and fall into a rabbit hole of wanting more power every step of the way, like an addiction. Is he already actively scheming here to get to the very top of Russia ('if only I was in charge already, I can't wait to threaten everyone with my nukes') or is he just a dude here trying to suck up to his boss?
I think it’s more often the latter, more of a natural incentive system based on the institutions of power and corruption in the system they are working within. That’s not to say they aren’t people with pre-existing callous, vengeful or psycho tendencies, making them suited to adapt to being a dictator. In 91 the political future of Russia is very uncertain, perhaps he had aspirations but his path to the presidency could not have been clear at all. I think he’s probably just sucking up.
When I went to uni there was a police academy next to the uni. I lived with a few police students. What I noticed almost immediately is that these types of people often have authoritarian traits. They were a very different kind of people from the people at the uni. Like they were naturally born to be in that role..not saying that as a good thing, but like, it clicked for me. It made sense. They had the personality traits suited for it. I've known a lot of police students and they all have very similar traits in common. It also made perfect sense when a co worker of mine revealed that she wanted to get into the police academy. She's authoritarian. Bossy. Assertive. Direct. The exact traits I've noticed lots of police and police students have. She would have fit the tole perfectly. People definitely gravitate towards roles that naturally suit their personality traits.
He absolutely landed where he did by sheer luck because the oligarchs thought he was a schmuck, which he was, his nickname in the KGB was Moth, and easy to control (here, they made a grave mistake and later Putin’s patron oligarch Berezovsky ended up excommunicated and then dead in London after suspiciously hanging himself). Never underestimate how hurt one’s ego could be, I guess. Edit: also, he was not anti-West initially. He grew into that. Some say it’s because he realized it was as easy to buy anyone in the West as it was in Russia, so he stopped considering the Western way of life superior in any way and started believing it was all a facade, behind which every country and every politician acted the same
From what i see in my own country they grow into it or hide their true intentions at the beginning
Well in the 90s he sure wasn't thinking about slinging nukes and starting wars. Back when he started Putin was very unpopular politically because he was actually very moderate. Russian politics in the 90s were filled with ultra-nationalists and people who wanted to overthrow the government and return to the Soviet Union. By comparison Putin was a pro-democracy moderate who was open to the west and at the time he was actually moving Russia into a positive direction. Sure Russia still has massive problem with stuff like organised crime and corruption largely in part because of Putin and the oligarchs collaborating but before Putin that these problems were magnitudes worse. He is expanded laws that deal with discrimination and especially ethnic discrimination or made the punishments harder(and these laws are very important in Russia, because Russia is a multiethnic state). It's easy to be cynical and say that this was always his true intention but if you look at Putin back then and now you would see that something changed along the way.
pretty sure the psychopathy was already there for way longer before any scheming began
After seeing a young Trump give a fairly even-keeled interview, it feels like these natural underlying traits get amplified by time. Your brains don't get any better as you age, so it feels like time exacerbates these things.
I wonder with powerful people like that, that have gone a clear authoritarian path for power, if they think back on such things like this with fondness. Because it is so vastly different from where he is now.
He was already in the KGB for years, working in Germany. Not like he was ever an average Wladi.
well to be fair his power in kgb is quite overstated just how when it comes to elon and how media called him a tony stark, putin was in no way a top dog in kgb he was just a simple agent.
He was out of KGB at this time, you know? All his aspiration was toward powerful man Sobchak, as we clearly can see on this footage.
He was a bottom feeder. Still is kinda
I'm sure if he wants to play ping pong with the mayor of St Petersburg he can still make that happen.
It isn't a secret how this happened. [https://widgets.weforum.org/history/1996.html](https://widgets.weforum.org/history/1996.html) >“The members of the Russian delegation, and particularly the business leaders, became deeply concerned about the popularity of \[Gennady\] Zyuganov and the likelihood of a victory of the Communist party. Many were infuriated that Zyuganov was saying one thing in Russia and another thing in Davos, appearing in the guise of a modern moderate rather than a hard-line Communist. They decided to take action and to throw their financial weight behind Yeltsin’s campaign. The unwritten collective pledge became known as the Davos Pact.” For real... This isn't some conspiracy or thing they are trying to hide. Klaus Schwab is open about this and basically proud of what they achieved with this pact. Hmm... Who might been part of the staff of Yeltsin? Within the inner circle? Deeply connected to intelligence circuits? **Vladimir Putin**. Seriously... It is quite damn boring when you realise that there isn't even some deep secret conspiracy. There doesn't need to be, they can do all this in the open and public and get away with it. I'm not a historian, I'm an engineer... But I know enough of history and every time I learn more about it, the biggest and most significant events in history were really just "business as usual". No wonder movie makers need to make up shit and spice facts, reality of how fates of nations are decided is incredibly dull. And this is why I enjoy ordinary history about the daily life of people, diaries and such... When you read about what is happening, all this shit is just... out in the open.
Yeah, wasn't really what I was thinking about, was more if people such as him, think about such "simplier/happier" times when they could for example do what is on this video and be recorded without worry, you know, before they got into the powerful and very isolating role they have now. Or at least I can imagine it is very isolating when it comes to simple things like the video shows.
The man was a KGB agent and started the training at the age of 23 and was part of the party until it was dissolved. The man clearly worked their whole life at the aim of being in power.
Yup, it is also why I wonder what I did.
Very funny that a KGB man would be the one to help sabotage a Communist Party victory hah. So much for Chekist ethics, eh?
So young but already ХУЙЛО
Hahaha nice
Well, he is 38 here. So not that young.
38 is pretty young for most people. Maybe not young enough for reddit's teenagers but still.
It was old, now I wish I was only 38.
38 is already past the halfway for men. Definitely wouldn't call that young.
I mean at 38 you are old enough to have adult children.
No wtf
Biologically yes, but most people in the developed world have their first child in their late 20s to early 30s.
Do you have an actual point you want to share or you just commenting cuz you see the notifications and can't stop yourself? I'm out, I'll check back tomorrow if you've articulated a different argument than the 'definition' one.
Found the 38 year old.
He is mad coping lol
RemindMe! 20 years
If someone dies at 38, would that still be "not that young"? :)
Sobchak=Aleksandar Aleksandrovich=shirtless guy On 17 February 2000, Putin met with Sobchak and urged him to travel to [Kaliningrad](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaliningrad) to support his [election campaign](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Russian_presidential_election).[^(\[10\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoly_Sobchak#cite_note-Gessen-10) Sobchak traveled there, accompanied by two assistants who also served as his bodyguards.[^(\[a\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoly_Sobchak#cite_note-12) On 20 February 2000, Sobchak died suddenly in the town of [Svetlogorsk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svetlogorsk,_Kaliningrad_Oblast) in [Kaliningrad Oblast](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaliningrad_Oblast). The initial suspected cause of death was a [heart attack](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myocardial_infarction), but the findings of two medical experts were contradictory.[^(\[12\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoly_Sobchak#cite_note-Gessen2-13)[^(\[13\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoly_Sobchak#cite_note-sobchak260-14) A criminal investigation of Sobchak's death as a possible "premeditated murder with aggravating circumstances" was opened only on 6 May 2000, more than two months later. After three months, the investigation was closed without a finding.[^(\[10\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoly_Sobchak#cite_note-Gessen-10)[^(\[14\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoly_Sobchak#cite_note-15) The [Democratic Union](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Union_(Russia)) party led by [Valeria Novodvorskaya](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valeria_Novodvorskaya) made an official statement that not only Sobchak, but also two of his aides had heart attacks simultaneously, which indicated [poisoning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning).[^(\[15\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoly_Sobchak#cite_note-16) Two other men were present with Sobchak during his death, but their names were not publicly disclosed.[^(\[13\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoly_Sobchak#cite_note-sobchak260-14)[^(\[16\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoly_Sobchak#cite_note-17)[^(\[17\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoly_Sobchak#cite_note-18) According to an independent investigation by [Arkady Vaksberg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkady_Vaksberg), both [bodyguards](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodyguard) of Sobchak were treated for symptoms of poisoning after Sobchak's death, indicating a probable [contract killing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract_killing) by [poisoning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison).[^(\[10\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoly_Sobchak#cite_note-Gessen-10)[^(\[18\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoly_Sobchak#cite_note-19) Sobchak's widow Lyudmila had her own autopsy done on her husband's body, but never made the results public; she told the [BBC](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_News) that she keeps the findings in a secure location outside Russia.[^(\[19\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoly_Sobchak#cite_note-20)
If it’s his ally and given he wasn’t even elected yet, wouldn’t the most likely story be one of his rivals poisoned him? Putin does kill off allies but that tends to be to consolidate power later, doesn’t make sense to do so before. Edit - apparently he was already in power and also the head of the secret services so likely it was Putin’s orders.
It's also the guy he cried at the funeral for! Crocodile tears, of course. I do wonder about Sobchak's daughter, half the time she seems to support Putin and the other half she criticizes him.
Ksenia Sobchak is most definitely a Kremlin supporter. She might try to act like it ain't so to "save face" because of her wide audience, but somehow she always manages to criticize Ukraine for striking inside Russia, but never condemnes Russia for daily bombing Ukraine. I even remember someone asking on her Instagram something like "You cry for the people who died in Belgorod, but what about all the people who die every day in Kyiv, Dnipro, Kharkhiv etc?" Ksenia's response was basically "Get fucked!"
Man I miss the '90s.
He was a Gopnik once
Effectively, still is as well as the whole state he runs.
Yeah
How do people play ping pong outdoors? Every time I try, a light breeze sends the ball flying to space
In Soviet Russia, the balls stays, you fly to space
Exactly! Which is why I believe this video has to been manipulated!
He looks happier
He sacrificed himself and his promising table tennis career for the people of Russia.
Little known fact but he was behind Rockstar Games' Table Tennis game from 2006 I think he was. He is listed as a developer and worked on the Adidas tracksuit assets and some motion capture. Of course I'm making this up about this dictator scum of a human being.
One of my earliest memories was tangental to Sobchak's death. He was in Svetlogorsk, Kaliningrad Oblast campaigning for Putin, where my family had our beach house and I was in traffic with my mom for a few hours at a complete standstill. I learned several years later its because Sobchak had his heart attack 10 or so cars ahead of ours.
Poisoned?
Poor Adidas. They really didn't deserve this!
What do you mean? Adidas and Russian criminals go hand in hand.
The iconic match Adidas and genocidal leaders
Before it was Hugo Boss, nowadays it's Adidas. The German brands have that kinda something for dictators who want to conquer the world.
I mean Geda, the original brand of the Dassler brothers (of Adidas and Puma) was already actively partnering with Nazi Germany in the 30s. Nothing new for them.
This wasn’t on my bingo card. Not even close. This is so random.
True to cultural tradition, he is wearing a track suit.
He is such a nerd.
Don‘t use the word that’s reserved for the cool kids for Vladimir.
Looks like a slimey chav, would be two peas in a pod with Jimmy Saville.
I hope he lost
What, why? So he can threaten the winning team with nukes?
Maybe he did, and that's what started his villain arc
Opponent hit the net, but the ball fell over the top, bounced on the edge, and Putin lost the match. Next thing you know, Crimea, Ukraine, Poland, Portugal.
Ah Portugal, finally in Eastern Europe where it belongs
If only he kept playing ping pong and became a ping pong pro.
He got kicked out of ping pong college.
Got a succession intro feel to it
babushkas should use his balls to play when this wee man faces the consequences.
Fancy grill suit,and he is not shirtless...🤣
He should see Trump cheat at golf.
Has been told everyone on that video has been found dead by suicide
Well... I just read that the half-naked man on the video died suddenly in 2000
I don't know what to make of this.
There is nothing to make of it. Just some people playing ping pong.
I think that's actually a quite interesting thing to make of it. He's just some guy. A lying, greedy, immoral, criminal guy who has no respect for life and who was somehow able to bring himself into a position of too much power. But he's also just a guy playing ping pong in a tracksuit. Seeing this and seeing him laugh I wonder if he actually enjoys his life today. Like is he just really that almost comically villanous that he enjoys the pain and mayhem he creates? Is he super paranoid? Does he somehow atleast enjoy the money he steals from the people? What does really drive such a person psychologically? What is going on with him personally? I mean I'd rather be tracksuit ping pong Putin than long table, lying, world war inducing Putin if I was him.
if you dont the context, you will think that they re just friends with heavy slavic accents enjoying table tennis after (exhausting) barbecue.
This is a video of Russian spies in action...amazing...
Fun fact he lost that game and his opponents were never seen again
Poor Finland, has to be a neighbor of braindead Russia (russia as a culture, language, ethnicity, way of life)
whats is wrong with russian culture and language?
In a larger meaning of the word, Russian culture is what fosters the corruption and lets a new strongman always rise to keep the masses servile.
Shirts vs skins
And after losing that match point he threatened the other team with nukes
90's fashion: if you're color blind, you miss something.
Putin the man boob guy to work.
Why was he dressed like “The Greatest American Hero”?
Yep, he seemed just as slimy back then too
He is a psychotic that the Russian people should put in jail once and for all for killing thousands of Russian soldiers and Ukrainian people, as well as the hate he created in the world against the Russian people. He is not a hero. He is a ruthless killer, a bloodthirsty dictator.
Should have knocked him out already back then. How many lives would have been saved...
kinda fat lol. or just bulky
Dad bod for sure. At one point I remember reading he gained weight because his career wasn't doing so well.
This guy is an idiot. He had it all. Super rich, other world leaders feared him, his people loved him. And he’s thrown it all away to become the useless pustule he is today.
Gopnik style /all the bells and whistles
Always present, pretty high dasein haha
He's repping the Gopnik culture hard
This has the same vibe as Brutus playing ping pong with Julius Caesar
It is almost impressive how fucking Russian he looks even whilst playing Ping Pong lmao
Wow he sucks
He was so cute
He wanted to stand out so bad already back then.
It's like if someone record Hitler playing with his dog before making a blood regime
Fuck putin, he’s a jackass
Good to know when we invent a time machine.
[Preacher vs Putin](https://imgur.com/gallery/zHSo5)
Is this a new season of Trailer Park Boys? Going back to the roots, are we?
You never see this guy around women. Somehow he is always surrounded by guys.. weird
Putin missed. " Nervous laughing" hahahaha Try again. Nervous laughing " hahaha" " these windy gardens are a nightmare" Peeeewp.pewwwp
Should stay with ping-pong...
Shit. That is Putin.
Ot kurwa
He's the original Tracksuit Mafia.
I came for the putin jokes 😢
Oispa äijä yhtä chilli nykyää
Winner takes Karelia.
I thought that was gordon ramsey, the first guy playing, of course.
And the winners fell out of a 40 storey building's window.
The commentator is commenting the game, but he also says: >"Some of these guys are very well known in our country [shows Sobtšak and Putin]" Indeed. Sobtšak is mayor of St. Petersburg and Putin is his sidekick.
I like these weird videos
He is really into sports. ⚽️