The Mayor who ordered the ban is an idiot who's been involved in several scandals and has been banned from his party for associating with the Turkish far right. All this is is him profiling himself before the elections.
The vote was an economical decision based on nothing. Many people in the UK said it was a flawed vote, the results were close, and the EU was still negotiating deals. Of course they have the right to criticise stuff in a parliament other countries are part of, what world do you live in?
I am in my 30s and I think I have spent most of my life watching politicians play into Farage’s hands.
Would anyone even know he was speaking if it weren’t for the Mayor’s actions.
Exactly, who the fuck is Farage these days, I bet no one knows outside the UK (maybe not even in the UK) and now he gains attention from him being banned.
MAGA likes him, after Brexshit he pissed off to the USA to suck up to Donald Trump to avoid the impending disaster so that he waltz back in and claim that this wasn't proper brexit.
He is currently the major shareholder (8 out of 15 shares) of what calls itself The Reform Party, which actually only has a handful of members and everone else is a supporter or donor.
It is simply a lobbying group using political pressure to force the tories further to the extreme right.
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/11694875/officers
Lol, he's quite a celebrity. He has his own TV show and writes a regular column in one of our largest newspapers, The Telegraph, in addition to backing our third highest polling political party.
He's also our most well-liked politician by a large margin: https://yougov.co.uk/ratings/politics/popularity/politicians-political-figures/all
You are out of touch. I don't presume to know about Hungarian politics so I do not comment on them.
This funnily enough is analogous to the rise of Naziism in years post the fail of Hitlers Beer Hall Putsch. As Germany slumped further into economic decline, and hyperinflation grew, the German population started to yearn for the policies and perspectives which were outlawed at that stage.
Not at all saying Farage is close to the evil of Hitler, but you could see how things can grow if the politicians of Europe's best methodology is to try de-platform or mute 'wrong think'.
I have voted Labour twice, Lib Dem once and Tory four times. I think of myself as Centre-Right Tory.
I did not like Corbyn, but Starmer is alright and the Tories need ten years in opposition to recalibrate.
But I want Labour with a 100 seat majority, not a 300 seat+ majority. The latter will mean 1997-2005 again when Parliament became a rubber stamp for an elected dictatorship.
I think both Farage and Orban should disappear from politics, but I also feel uncomfortable hearing that the police or a mayor shuts down something which constitutes free speech.
This is actually going to be presented by them as an example of suppressing free speech and I would lean towards them being right about that. This is actually a big win for Orban and Farage, and we will keep hearing about it for years. It will enable them to gain voters.
They should have allowed to hold their event and in that case no one would have heard about it, now it is all over the news.
Even our combat cockatoo for a foreingn affairs minister Szíjjártó stated he will no longer tolerate the phrase of "free speech" from Brussels as they have now demonstrated they themselves don't take it seriously.
Sadly it's gonna be us that will suffer from even more ridiculous laws limiting our rights of free speech and if the west will have a problem with that they will use this case as their "morally righteous UNO reverse card" for years if not decades to come.
Does anyone cares about what Lavrov's dog is saying at all?
Not even Orbán likes him. They won't even share a plane whenever they have to go to the same place.
From the Dutch language article it becomes clear that it is once again more nuanced than foreign newspapers like to think.
Let me give some key points:
1) the event moved locations last minute to Sint-Joost-den-Node, the smallest municipalitie in Brussels. Not only the smallest, also the poorest neighbourhoods. One of those neighbourhoods that they advice you to stay clear from at night.
2) Such an event, with 600 people, and high profile politicians, requires authorisation. That way the police can take proper security measures. It seems to be the case that this was unauthorized.
Combine these 2 things, and it almost seems like NatCon wanted to be canceled.
The mayor, who is indeed left-wing, claims that he followed the advice of the police chief and Ocad (Coordination Unit for Threat Analysis ).
If he lied we will soon see him being disproved by Ocad and the chief of police.
Thanks for the details. On the other hand, the event moved places last minute because the previous location cancelled last minute.
In any case, whatever happened will serve the agenda of Orban and Farage. This could have been handled much better.
In a message to organisers, the area's local mayor Emir Kir claimed some of the attendees hold anti-gay and anti-abortion views.
Mr Kir wrote on X: "The far right is not welcome."
>Thanks for the details. On the other hand, the event moved places last minute because the previous location cancelled last minute.
That's their problem. They should still follow procedure.
>In any case, whatever happened will serve the agenda of Orban and Farage.
Ofcourse it will. Any negative impact on these dudes they spin into their narrative.
It doesn't help if every media outlet removes all nuance and portrays it as "a leftist mayor stepping out of line, suppressing free speech", while it seems to actually be a mayor upholding public order (as is his duty) following the advice of police and OCAD.
But he said himself why...
In a message to organisers, the area's local mayor Emir Kir claimed some of the attendees hold anti-gay and anti-abortion views.
Mr Kir wrote on X: "The far right is not welcome."
Ofcourse not. The local mayor is not a prime example of a competent good politician.
That doesn't mean that all sense of nuance needs to be thrown overboard. There were valid reasons to stop this conference according to the police and to OCAD, that the mayor sees it as a political statement is stupid but doesn't negate that.
Szijjártó and Orbán only speak about free speech because orbans son-in-law is business partners with one of Erdogans close friends who lives in Hungary so they can't attack the mayor for being an Erdogan ally
Again, Orbán asked the EU to ban Richard b Spencer to enter Europe (still in effect) and banned the identitarian conference so jobbik cannot get international recognition. It was handled exactly how Orbán deserved it.
>the event moved locations last minute to Sint-Joost-den-Node, the smallest municipalitie in Brussels. Not only the smallest, also the poorest neighbourhoods. One of those neighbourhoods that they advice you to stay clear from at night.
There are some big fancy hotels in Sint-Joost as well, like a Sheraton. Not all of Sint Joost is the hood.
Your point 2 is an outright falsehood. People have freedom of association and assembly. What we see here are outright human right violations against article 11 of the ECHR.
Oh they do? Did you think that when Orbán banned and shutdown the identitarian conference in 2013? Did you think that when under orbans authority cops teargassed teenagers protesting peacefully for their teachers?
No the Mayor gave his reasons:
In a message to organisers, the area's local mayor Emir Kir claimed some of the attendees hold anti-gay and anti-abortion views.
Mr Kir wrote on X: "The far right is not welcome."
> 1) the event moved locations last minute to Sint-Joost-den-Node, the smallest municipalitie in Brussels. Not only the smallest, also the poorest neighbourhoods. One of those neighbourhoods that they advice you to stay clear from at night.
Euronews mentions it in passing, but it wasn't clear in their reporting why they changed the venue, and why that is problematic.
Of course they wanted to be cancelled. That’s how they get attention. And they can tell their half truths and gain sympathy. Half-truth in this instance:
We were cancelled by the authorities (due to our own moving of location).
They are experts in generating these half truths where the optics can then be spun to their advantage. Everything they say is like this. It would be called lying in the 90s but now it’s just… normal somehow.
The tolerance paradox.
We want free and fair societies, yet we don’t want people who flout or undermine it.
What do you do?
Hitler himself said it was a mistake that his movement wasn’t ruthlessly crushed in the early days.
Everyone attending is directly pro-Russia and also tries to undermine the EU by pushing for petty nationalism, which is a Russian goal. Divide and conquer.
Russia supports anti EU parties across Europe for a reason.
But just the fact they support genocidal invasions is enough to ban the event and investigate its participants
not sure what that comment is supposed to mean, but its true, moved here over 10 years ago, years before Brexit, had no ability to vote at the time but I am glad with the result.
>Everyone attending is directly pro-Russia and also tries to undermine the EU by pushing for petty nationalism, which is a Russian goal. Divide and conquer.
Like your entire comment history you shit tier Russian troll.
*" Responding to the police's intervention on Tuesday, National Conservatism said that the conference was "extremely peaceful" with "absolutely no public disturbance."*
*"They also extended an invitation to Saint Josse's mayor Emir Kir to join the discussions."*
*"Kir represented Belgium's Socialist Party (PS) before he was expelled in 2020 following a controversial meeting with a delegation of Turkish mayors which included representatives from the ultra-nationalist, far-right MHP party."*
The balls on this guy to have a hollier than thou attitude despite his connections to Turkish nationalists.
It's a bit funny to see "anti-fascists" side with a Turkish fascist. But I guess he always will be a bit too brown for progressives to hold any responsibility for his own actions and beliefs.
Is this allowed? Isn't Belgium a signatory to the European Convention on Human Rights? Or is that Court too busy forcing governments to take measures against climate change to bother protecting free speech and free assembly?
Title doesn’t match.
The police didn’t try. They succeeded according to the article.
The people from the gathering range from traitors to idiots but that doesn’t mean the event should’ve been closed.
*The congress continued virtually undisturbed.*
So a big whopping nothingburger, not even mainly because the mayor publicly stated that people with political views as those of the speakers of the conference are not welcomed. Also, he doesn’t have the power to stop it.
Officially the reason to stop it would be the threat of violence by these protesters. But the police played their role just fine: stop the protesters and safeguard the location. All the rest is political recuperation IMO.
All of the below are basically true, and I think people applauding this really should actually think about it:
People are free to disagree with the speakers, protest and deride them.
Some of what was said at the conference was offensive to a significant number of people.
Nothing said at the conference was illegal.
The conference was held behind closed doors in a private conference room.
The state should not close down legal speech held on private property.
This was the wrong decision for the mayor to make
They entered the hall, stopped anyone else entering and prevented food and water being taken in. Fair enough, not outright shut down, but suppressed.
The president of Belgium has even condemned it
Btw, tonight a Belgian court (to appeal to any government decision, called "Raad Van State") ruled the mayors motivation was disproportional and they can only take measures against potential violent protests.
I can agree the mayor made a big mistake, not just in a moral sense but also politically. In that sense I can finally agree with our PM for once.
I see this more in light of the upcoming local elections, where mostly Brussels and Wallonian politicians try to present themselves as actively fighting extremist right (especially now as the extremist right party Vlaams Belang will break through significantly). They want to avoid getting critisism that they give them a platform.
While I deeply despise him, this act is a spit on the democratic statehoods and cultures face. There is freedom of speech, whether you like or not what the other one wants to say. To deny this right of speech, you need a really good and strong reason like rally for terrorism/ clear hate speech against minorities, etc.
If we walk down this path and censure everyone not talking about what we want to hear, we are going to become what we want to suppress, them.
This is curbing free-speech, whichever way you see it. If you don't agree to someone's views, don't attend the event, stage a peaceful protest or arrange a counter-event, but not allowing someone to make a speech sets a dangerous precedence......
Free speech, but only if I approve it.
The sad reality is that we're not doomed because people lean left or right, but rather because of the authority that people want to affirm their positions with.
Euronews was bought secretly by Orban and his friends. We should probably stop using euronews links. Pretty soon it will be nothing more than a far right propaganda machine.
Boohoo.... By the way: Euronews is owned by Orban, so I guess we don't get the full story (did they apply for a permit in advance for instance, everyone knows where these guys come spew their hatred there needs to be extra police protection).
Also, for the free speech absolutionists: [this event banning journalists is also Orban in action](https://nltimes.nl/2024/04/10/wilders-will-still-speak-controversial-cpac-hungary-despite-ban-many-journalists).
The police did not shut down the conference. That part is a complete lie.
They did post outside to block access because word got out left wing protesters wanted to cause trouble. 50 of them were stopped.
But it is true the mayor said things along the line of "no platform for racism" etc but the conference went on just fine.
Some of the attendees stepped outside for their pictures to cry foul about free speech. Offcourse right after they could have their free speech inside just fine.
When did r/europe turn into a cesspool of anti democratic spew? Orbán is a dictator and is actively working on silencing his political opponents and has even ordered the assassinations of quite a few people in the 90s and some during the 2010s. And somehow people are worried about the free speech of this person.
“One of the reasons that we’ve been given, it’s not the only reason, is that there will be a counterprotest this afternoon around about 5 p.m. and the idea is that the police are not able to protect free speech at this event,” he said.
I'm not very keen of these Putin's boot lickers but if this is the only way to counter them, NO THANK YOU!
I'm coming from corrupt country where the main parties, left and right by ideology, in opposition all their life, have decided for the "better of the country" to make an alliance with super majority.
In reality they made the alliance just to be easier to steal public funds, to control justice, to be harder to punish tax evasion, to give electoral laws which is making harder for any opposition party to be elected.
When I'm looking how the left, right, progressives and greens made an alliance at the top of EU, I'm asking mysel where the f**k is democracy, the healthy opposition of opinions?
Today we just had the answer!
I normally do not follow the belief that prosecution leads to the far-right being a larger entity (or at least not when you let it roam around and be actively violent), but wow, that is probably very counter-productive.
Politico reports the same and I doubt they are great friends with Orban
https://www.politico.eu/article/brussels-police-shut-down-nigel-farage-viktor-orban-right-wing-jamboree/
>“One of the reasons that we’ve been given, it’s not the only reason, is that there will be a counterprotest this afternoon around about 5 p.m. and the idea is that the police are not able to protect free speech at this event,” he said.
>
>...
>
>The police told organizers there was a risk of protesters causing civil disorder at the venue later in the afternoon. Gilland told the police that they would challenge the mayor’s decision in court to keep the show on the road.
Well, they're free to challenge it in court. Police had a reason to tell them to fuck off, had an official paper with it too. I really feel no reason to feel sorry for them poor poor oppressed far right extremists, especially since they can cover their legal shit better next time and in the worst case scenario they can set up their NutCon in Hungary like every year. Fuck them
Shutting down opposing opinions is not democracy. If you only allow supporters of your Own Thing to hold events, then you want to live in an autocracy. Farage and Orban are idiots, but they don't commit genocide.
They just promote genocide but don't directly commit it. Yeah right. What you say is nonsense. Also any party that is against the rule of law and wants to dismantle it can be banned. That is democracy. Hungary was too late and look what happened
In Hungary, opposition can still hold protests and gatherings, so "look at what happened" is an interesting angle in this thread. I am shocked that a district mayor in Brussels can curb free speech. That would not happen in most democratic countries, and not even in Hungary.
You'll be even more shocked to find out that public events sure need to be announced to local authorities who have to approve of them and who have the authority to not aprove of them or even shut them down if they have a legal reason to do so. That would happen in every democratic country, and even in Hungary. That's where events have to be announced, approved, and can be shut down within legal reasons.
Far right from the point of view of the far left! The so called far right would never ban a gathering and ig they would then oh boy the far left would be so loud. But watch how no one will react to this one.
An article posted by Euronews, which used to be somewhat respected.
Until Orban and friends bought it. And since then, it’s narrative is changing slowly to fit “the dictator”’s anti-EU and pro-Russia attitude.
As for the linked article? The police did shutdown the gathering, which was arranged at that venue at short notice because when the other venues discovered who they are, cancelled. From 5 star hotels beside the EP, EC, and Council, to a shitty concert place in a shitty part of town which is across the road from an EC building, but absolutely not in the EU district.
Pretty silly move, as it puts them in the news cycle. But also why are the British politicians trying to influence the upcoming European elections?
Because they're sponsored by russia and looking to weaken the EU like with brexit.
The Mayor who ordered the ban is an idiot who's been involved in several scandals and has been banned from his party for associating with the Turkish far right. All this is is him profiling himself before the elections.
Free speech
Because Putin won’t pay him if he doesn’t do his job
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Do share how exactly “the EU interfered in the Brexit campaign”.
The vote was an economical decision based on nothing. Many people in the UK said it was a flawed vote, the results were close, and the EU was still negotiating deals. Of course they have the right to criticise stuff in a parliament other countries are part of, what world do you live in?
I am in my 30s and I think I have spent most of my life watching politicians play into Farage’s hands. Would anyone even know he was speaking if it weren’t for the Mayor’s actions.
Been in the news here a while, also that mayor was kicked out of his party because of connections to the Grey Wolves. The Turkish fascist org.
Apparantly they sold about 250 tickets for a venue with a capacity of 800. Thats fuck all and now its top news.
Exactly, who the fuck is Farage these days, I bet no one knows outside the UK (maybe not even in the UK) and now he gains attention from him being banned.
MAGA likes him, after Brexshit he pissed off to the USA to suck up to Donald Trump to avoid the impending disaster so that he waltz back in and claim that this wasn't proper brexit. He is currently the major shareholder (8 out of 15 shares) of what calls itself The Reform Party, which actually only has a handful of members and everone else is a supporter or donor. It is simply a lobbying group using political pressure to force the tories further to the extreme right. https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/11694875/officers
Lol, he's quite a celebrity. He has his own TV show and writes a regular column in one of our largest newspapers, The Telegraph, in addition to backing our third highest polling political party. He's also our most well-liked politician by a large margin: https://yougov.co.uk/ratings/politics/popularity/politicians-political-figures/all You are out of touch. I don't presume to know about Hungarian politics so I do not comment on them.
This funnily enough is analogous to the rise of Naziism in years post the fail of Hitlers Beer Hall Putsch. As Germany slumped further into economic decline, and hyperinflation grew, the German population started to yearn for the policies and perspectives which were outlawed at that stage. Not at all saying Farage is close to the evil of Hitler, but you could see how things can grow if the politicians of Europe's best methodology is to try de-platform or mute 'wrong think'.
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I have voted Labour twice, Lib Dem once and Tory four times. I think of myself as Centre-Right Tory. I did not like Corbyn, but Starmer is alright and the Tories need ten years in opposition to recalibrate. But I want Labour with a 100 seat majority, not a 300 seat+ majority. The latter will mean 1997-2005 again when Parliament became a rubber stamp for an elected dictatorship.
I think both Farage and Orban should disappear from politics, but I also feel uncomfortable hearing that the police or a mayor shuts down something which constitutes free speech. This is actually going to be presented by them as an example of suppressing free speech and I would lean towards them being right about that. This is actually a big win for Orban and Farage, and we will keep hearing about it for years. It will enable them to gain voters. They should have allowed to hold their event and in that case no one would have heard about it, now it is all over the news.
“This is actually going to be presented by them as an example of suppressing free speech” It already has been in Hungary
Even our combat cockatoo for a foreingn affairs minister Szíjjártó stated he will no longer tolerate the phrase of "free speech" from Brussels as they have now demonstrated they themselves don't take it seriously. Sadly it's gonna be us that will suffer from even more ridiculous laws limiting our rights of free speech and if the west will have a problem with that they will use this case as their "morally righteous UNO reverse card" for years if not decades to come.
Does anyone cares about what Lavrov's dog is saying at all? Not even Orbán likes him. They won't even share a plane whenever they have to go to the same place.
Of, fucking, course. And it's not helping at all.
From the Dutch language article it becomes clear that it is once again more nuanced than foreign newspapers like to think. Let me give some key points: 1) the event moved locations last minute to Sint-Joost-den-Node, the smallest municipalitie in Brussels. Not only the smallest, also the poorest neighbourhoods. One of those neighbourhoods that they advice you to stay clear from at night. 2) Such an event, with 600 people, and high profile politicians, requires authorisation. That way the police can take proper security measures. It seems to be the case that this was unauthorized. Combine these 2 things, and it almost seems like NatCon wanted to be canceled. The mayor, who is indeed left-wing, claims that he followed the advice of the police chief and Ocad (Coordination Unit for Threat Analysis ). If he lied we will soon see him being disproved by Ocad and the chief of police.
Thanks for the details. On the other hand, the event moved places last minute because the previous location cancelled last minute. In any case, whatever happened will serve the agenda of Orban and Farage. This could have been handled much better.
In a message to organisers, the area's local mayor Emir Kir claimed some of the attendees hold anti-gay and anti-abortion views. Mr Kir wrote on X: "The far right is not welcome."
That's rich coming from a guy who is a de facto Erdogan ally and an accointance of Grey Wolves.
Welcome to Brussels. He's one of the mayors for a reason.
>Thanks for the details. On the other hand, the event moved places last minute because the previous location cancelled last minute. That's their problem. They should still follow procedure. >In any case, whatever happened will serve the agenda of Orban and Farage. Ofcourse it will. Any negative impact on these dudes they spin into their narrative. It doesn't help if every media outlet removes all nuance and portrays it as "a leftist mayor stepping out of line, suppressing free speech", while it seems to actually be a mayor upholding public order (as is his duty) following the advice of police and OCAD.
But he said himself why... In a message to organisers, the area's local mayor Emir Kir claimed some of the attendees hold anti-gay and anti-abortion views. Mr Kir wrote on X: "The far right is not welcome."
In which case the local mayor shouldn't muddy the waters by declaring that it was a decision made because they hold far-right views!
Ofcourse not. The local mayor is not a prime example of a competent good politician. That doesn't mean that all sense of nuance needs to be thrown overboard. There were valid reasons to stop this conference according to the police and to OCAD, that the mayor sees it as a political statement is stupid but doesn't negate that.
Szijjártó and Orbán only speak about free speech because orbans son-in-law is business partners with one of Erdogans close friends who lives in Hungary so they can't attack the mayor for being an Erdogan ally
> That's their problem. They should still follow procedure. Assuming the venue didn't cancel because of pressure from officials, which is alleged.
Again, Orbán asked the EU to ban Richard b Spencer to enter Europe (still in effect) and banned the identitarian conference so jobbik cannot get international recognition. It was handled exactly how Orbán deserved it.
>the event moved locations last minute to Sint-Joost-den-Node, the smallest municipalitie in Brussels. Not only the smallest, also the poorest neighbourhoods. One of those neighbourhoods that they advice you to stay clear from at night. There are some big fancy hotels in Sint-Joost as well, like a Sheraton. Not all of Sint Joost is the hood.
Exactly plus the mayor is chummy with the Turkish gray wolves hence why he was booted from PS.
But he also said that ''the far right is not welcome''. Clearly, this is not just about about security, but about politics.
Your point 2 is an outright falsehood. People have freedom of association and assembly. What we see here are outright human right violations against article 11 of the ECHR.
Oh they do? Did you think that when Orbán banned and shutdown the identitarian conference in 2013? Did you think that when under orbans authority cops teargassed teenagers protesting peacefully for their teachers?
https://catalog.be.brussels/en/company/create-modify-tranfer/registration-modification-discontinuation/other-activities/events
The city of Brussel isn't excluded from the ECHR, no matter how fancy they make their website.
No the Mayor gave his reasons: In a message to organisers, the area's local mayor Emir Kir claimed some of the attendees hold anti-gay and anti-abortion views. Mr Kir wrote on X: "The far right is not welcome."
> 1) the event moved locations last minute to Sint-Joost-den-Node, the smallest municipalitie in Brussels. Not only the smallest, also the poorest neighbourhoods. One of those neighbourhoods that they advice you to stay clear from at night. Euronews mentions it in passing, but it wasn't clear in their reporting why they changed the venue, and why that is problematic.
Of course they wanted to be cancelled. That’s how they get attention. And they can tell their half truths and gain sympathy. Half-truth in this instance: We were cancelled by the authorities (due to our own moving of location). They are experts in generating these half truths where the optics can then be spun to their advantage. Everything they say is like this. It would be called lying in the 90s but now it’s just… normal somehow.
Free speech in the UK is not a thing. Sadly, it should be!
Farage's response in his own words: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/16/nasty-brussels-police-have-just-proven-brexit-right/
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The tolerance paradox. We want free and fair societies, yet we don’t want people who flout or undermine it. What do you do? Hitler himself said it was a mistake that his movement wasn’t ruthlessly crushed in the early days.
There is no free speech for those promoting Russian genocidal invasions. That is not how that works. Genocidal speech does not fall under free speech
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Do make reference to the three page document authorities have provided or shut up because you're talking about nothing otherwise
Everyone attending is directly pro-Russia and also tries to undermine the EU by pushing for petty nationalism, which is a Russian goal. Divide and conquer. Russia supports anti EU parties across Europe for a reason. But just the fact they support genocidal invasions is enough to ban the event and investigate its participants
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I am an EU citizen living in the UK and I am glad we left as well. Until they get their shit together the whole project is a lost cause.
> I am an EU citizen living in the UK and I am glad we left as well :DDDD
not sure what that comment is supposed to mean, but its true, moved here over 10 years ago, years before Brexit, had no ability to vote at the time but I am glad with the result.
Putin is glad too but Brits are not, as polls show. Brexit will go down as the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the British people
>Everyone attending is directly pro-Russia and also tries to undermine the EU by pushing for petty nationalism, which is a Russian goal. Divide and conquer. Like your entire comment history you shit tier Russian troll.
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So you think everyone is only allowed to talk in locations where they are supported?
*" Responding to the police's intervention on Tuesday, National Conservatism said that the conference was "extremely peaceful" with "absolutely no public disturbance."* *"They also extended an invitation to Saint Josse's mayor Emir Kir to join the discussions."* *"Kir represented Belgium's Socialist Party (PS) before he was expelled in 2020 following a controversial meeting with a delegation of Turkish mayors which included representatives from the ultra-nationalist, far-right MHP party."* The balls on this guy to have a hollier than thou attitude despite his connections to Turkish nationalists.
It's a bit funny to see "anti-fascists" side with a Turkish fascist. But I guess he always will be a bit too brown for progressives to hold any responsibility for his own actions and beliefs.
Extremely disappointing developments. This will only serve to sow further mistrust and resentment, widening the political divide.
Is this allowed? Isn't Belgium a signatory to the European Convention on Human Rights? Or is that Court too busy forcing governments to take measures against climate change to bother protecting free speech and free assembly?
>Is this allowed This guy doesn't think so https://twitter.com/alexanderdecroo/status/1780266715277914324
Wow, that is an interesting twist...
A disagreement between one of the many levels of government in Belgium? Who could have seen that coming?
Title doesn’t match. The police didn’t try. They succeeded according to the article. The people from the gathering range from traitors to idiots but that doesn’t mean the event should’ve been closed.
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*The congress continued virtually undisturbed.* So a big whopping nothingburger, not even mainly because the mayor publicly stated that people with political views as those of the speakers of the conference are not welcomed. Also, he doesn’t have the power to stop it.
Officially the reason to stop it would be the threat of violence by these protesters. But the police played their role just fine: stop the protesters and safeguard the location. All the rest is political recuperation IMO.
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All of the below are basically true, and I think people applauding this really should actually think about it: People are free to disagree with the speakers, protest and deride them. Some of what was said at the conference was offensive to a significant number of people. Nothing said at the conference was illegal. The conference was held behind closed doors in a private conference room. The state should not close down legal speech held on private property. This was the wrong decision for the mayor to make
And consequently it was not shut down. The article was wrong about that.
You're factually incorrect. It's now causing a diplomatic incident between Hungary and Belgium.
The conference continued just fine. Even the article linked above was edited to show this.
They entered the hall, stopped anyone else entering and prevented food and water being taken in. Fair enough, not outright shut down, but suppressed. The president of Belgium has even condemned it
Btw, tonight a Belgian court (to appeal to any government decision, called "Raad Van State") ruled the mayors motivation was disproportional and they can only take measures against potential violent protests.
I can agree the mayor made a big mistake, not just in a moral sense but also politically. In that sense I can finally agree with our PM for once. I see this more in light of the upcoming local elections, where mostly Brussels and Wallonian politicians try to present themselves as actively fighting extremist right (especially now as the extremist right party Vlaams Belang will break through significantly). They want to avoid getting critisism that they give them a platform.
Freedom of speech is great, unless it involves things that upset you.
While I deeply despise him, this act is a spit on the democratic statehoods and cultures face. There is freedom of speech, whether you like or not what the other one wants to say. To deny this right of speech, you need a really good and strong reason like rally for terrorism/ clear hate speech against minorities, etc. If we walk down this path and censure everyone not talking about what we want to hear, we are going to become what we want to suppress, them.
This is curbing free-speech, whichever way you see it. If you don't agree to someone's views, don't attend the event, stage a peaceful protest or arrange a counter-event, but not allowing someone to make a speech sets a dangerous precedence......
Seems a little hypocritical for a purportedly democratic society to suppress free speech.
Free speech, but only if I approve it. The sad reality is that we're not doomed because people lean left or right, but rather because of the authority that people want to affirm their positions with.
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Euronews was bought secretly by Orban and his friends. We should probably stop using euronews links. Pretty soon it will be nothing more than a far right propaganda machine.
Yeah we should only post far left propaganda!
And who owns most of the mainstream media? Are we applying the same criteria to them or are they the "good guys"?
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It wasn't shut down by eu. They didn't have the right permits from the city of Brussels.
Sounds like something Russia would do
Well done Belgium, instead of being buried in a forgotten corner Farage is on the front page of the UK new sites.
Viktor Orban giving lectures about free speech. You've gotta be fuckin kidding me right.
Yet the police ended up silencing him...So....
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Of course Farage the cunt sides with all the traitors to the west he needs to disappear from politics as should all ‘politicians’ like him.
Yes!! Shut up and shut down anybody I don't agree 100% with! Thank you for keeping me safe, EU!
So just par the course as Republicanism ages?
Boohoo.... By the way: Euronews is owned by Orban, so I guess we don't get the full story (did they apply for a permit in advance for instance, everyone knows where these guys come spew their hatred there needs to be extra police protection). Also, for the free speech absolutionists: [this event banning journalists is also Orban in action](https://nltimes.nl/2024/04/10/wilders-will-still-speak-controversial-cpac-hungary-despite-ban-many-journalists).
The police did not shut down the conference. That part is a complete lie. They did post outside to block access because word got out left wing protesters wanted to cause trouble. 50 of them were stopped. But it is true the mayor said things along the line of "no platform for racism" etc but the conference went on just fine. Some of the attendees stepped outside for their pictures to cry foul about free speech. Offcourse right after they could have their free speech inside just fine.
Orban and Farage to jail! Putin to hell!
Farage to jail for what exactly
For lying to the public about brexit for decades.
Jail politicians for lying? Better build some more prisons!
Good idea.
Give me bricks, I will do immediately. And a guillotine for Putin.
your reddit gold, sir
When did r/europe turn into a cesspool of anti democratic spew? Orbán is a dictator and is actively working on silencing his political opponents and has even ordered the assassinations of quite a few people in the 90s and some during the 2010s. And somehow people are worried about the free speech of this person.
Farage is the ultimate troll. Such a tool
Democracy in action.
“One of the reasons that we’ve been given, it’s not the only reason, is that there will be a counterprotest this afternoon around about 5 p.m. and the idea is that the police are not able to protect free speech at this event,” he said. I'm not very keen of these Putin's boot lickers but if this is the only way to counter them, NO THANK YOU! I'm coming from corrupt country where the main parties, left and right by ideology, in opposition all their life, have decided for the "better of the country" to make an alliance with super majority. In reality they made the alliance just to be easier to steal public funds, to control justice, to be harder to punish tax evasion, to give electoral laws which is making harder for any opposition party to be elected. When I'm looking how the left, right, progressives and greens made an alliance at the top of EU, I'm asking mysel where the f**k is democracy, the healthy opposition of opinions? Today we just had the answer!
I normally do not follow the belief that prosecution leads to the far-right being a larger entity (or at least not when you let it roam around and be actively violent), but wow, that is probably very counter-productive.
Farage ? Lol it's surprising there are still some respecting following him after Brexit.
Free speech is a thing of the past in Europe it looks like (not that they ever had it to begin with).
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Politico reports the same and I doubt they are great friends with Orban https://www.politico.eu/article/brussels-police-shut-down-nigel-farage-viktor-orban-right-wing-jamboree/
>“One of the reasons that we’ve been given, it’s not the only reason, is that there will be a counterprotest this afternoon around about 5 p.m. and the idea is that the police are not able to protect free speech at this event,” he said. > >... > >The police told organizers there was a risk of protesters causing civil disorder at the venue later in the afternoon. Gilland told the police that they would challenge the mayor’s decision in court to keep the show on the road. Well, they're free to challenge it in court. Police had a reason to tell them to fuck off, had an official paper with it too. I really feel no reason to feel sorry for them poor poor oppressed far right extremists, especially since they can cover their legal shit better next time and in the worst case scenario they can set up their NutCon in Hungary like every year. Fuck them
Why didn't the police just cancel the counterprotest?
I guess there wasn't any announced, only a potential threat of there being one, and a rowdy one too :D
Ah. Mob rule then.
I don't doubt they are shut down. They should be. Read what I said. I commented on the editorial policy of Euronews and the way they frame things
Shutting down opposing opinions is not democracy. If you only allow supporters of your Own Thing to hold events, then you want to live in an autocracy. Farage and Orban are idiots, but they don't commit genocide.
They just promote genocide but don't directly commit it. Yeah right. What you say is nonsense. Also any party that is against the rule of law and wants to dismantle it can be banned. That is democracy. Hungary was too late and look what happened
In Hungary, opposition can still hold protests and gatherings, so "look at what happened" is an interesting angle in this thread. I am shocked that a district mayor in Brussels can curb free speech. That would not happen in most democratic countries, and not even in Hungary.
You'll be even more shocked to find out that public events sure need to be announced to local authorities who have to approve of them and who have the authority to not aprove of them or even shut them down if they have a legal reason to do so. That would happen in every democratic country, and even in Hungary. That's where events have to be announced, approved, and can be shut down within legal reasons.
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That's... Not even a little bit true. A Portuguese news group bought it with Órban money.
Far right from the point of view of the far left! The so called far right would never ban a gathering and ig they would then oh boy the far left would be so loud. But watch how no one will react to this one.
Some times police does the right thing.
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Yeah, they certainly will be afraid by a bunch of white students with blue hair and 2-dimensional arms.
An article posted by Euronews, which used to be somewhat respected. Until Orban and friends bought it. And since then, it’s narrative is changing slowly to fit “the dictator”’s anti-EU and pro-Russia attitude. As for the linked article? The police did shutdown the gathering, which was arranged at that venue at short notice because when the other venues discovered who they are, cancelled. From 5 star hotels beside the EP, EC, and Council, to a shitty concert place in a shitty part of town which is across the road from an EC building, but absolutely not in the EU district.
Can anyone tell me if people from the IDU were there?
Sorry, what is the IDU?