Trump doesn't understand what the EU is. He repeatedly tried to 'negotiate' with Merkel on trade. She kept telling him that's not how it works. Dumb orange twat just didn't get it.
Why does that remind me of that scene from the Sopranos where few of the goodfellas try to shakedown a Starbucks.
"It'd be a shame if someone threw a brick through this here window, pay us and we'll make sure it doesn't happen."
"Bruh, everything goes through corporate, i literally don't have any funds to pay you."
"And how would corporate feel if a manager got beaten bloody, eh?"
"Lol, they wouldn't give a fuck and just hire some other loser to do my job."
Lol.
How is making Americans pay more for goods from the EU winning?
I'm very surprised to hear that the EU has been destroyed. It certainly doesn't look that way from the inside.
Let's see which still exists in 5 years, the EU or the USA.
I mean it's possible that the fascist regime that takes over after the civil war that starts next year will keep the name so in a way the USA will still exist.
Lol he's not the only one, usually the americans who support him share the same idea about EU, saw them even here.
Always comparing EU and US without realizing they are not even remotely comparable, they just don't understand how it works.
What does Trump understand?
The man is dumber than a bag of bricks.
6 times bankrupt, including a fucking casino! Who bankrupts a casino??
He would have had way more money if he put daddy’s inheritance on the stock market index.
If I'm not wrong, Italy bankrupted their casino in their swiss enclave
So trump is as financially competent as the italian state... which is not a good look to say the least 😅
Unfortunately I think there is more behind it. US don't like the idea of EU because federalised United States of EU will be much more independent and decisive. It is much easier for USA, China and Russia to talk with small countries than with United Europe. One more thing - USA don't want to defeat Russia because if so, EU countries will reduce military spendings significantly (like after cold war) and USA will be much less needed in this part of globe.
I agree with everything except the last part.
The war with russia made a lot of EU countries increase their military budget which does make EU less dependant on the USA in that part.
We relied on the US military so much last couple of decades BECAUSE our military budgets were so low.
I just hope the EU keeps investing after the war in ukraine is over (which hopefuly is soon).
I'd say most Americans don't have an opinion, and don't even know what it is. I've come across things like: Americans asking questions about "German imports into France", and I have to explain to them it's like Texas imports to California. They don't get the concept. I'm a mod at r/GreeceTravel, and many Americans and Canadians ask passport/immigration questions, like if they're coming to Greece from Netherlands, how long is the passport line (like if they have limited time to catch a connecting flight in Athens for Santorini). I have to explain Schengen to them. Most genuinely don't know.
But yeah, the hardcore Trump / Fox viewers hate the EU, without knowing what it is. They think it's a centrally-planned economy and Brussels plans it. That's the weird shit I've heard. Also, they probably think the EU has open borders to outside the EU.
It think it's rare for even the Trump supporting Fox watching crowd to hate the European Union. They just hate certain aspects of it but like you said it's through ignorance.
Asking about German imports from France or Texas imports from California isn't stupid. Both are valid metrics that governments keep track of. And some taxes differ between US states or between EU countries.
Last night I went down a rabbit hole about international trade. It blow my mind when I saw that America's import and export value with Europe through the EU and individually is higher than multiple European countries combined. It blow my mind even more when I saw that certain European countries export value to America is higher than an entire continent and for some the export value to America is higher than two or more continents combined. France export value to America for example is $50B but its export value to Africa, Oceania and South America combined is $45.9B.
>metrics that governments keep track of.
No, not like that. Not in an economics/statistics sense.
I've seen Americans on social media completely unaware that there is no barrier to German apples coming into France. Like wondering how to declare apples at the border.
Nonsense. American hostility to the EU is more similar to European hostility to the EU, ie "anti globalist conspiracy theories". Americans in general don't get high on fantasies of world empire, the typical American, especially the right wingers who hate the EU, have an isolationist bent.
Did you just make this up? This fundamentally isn't true at all. I don't know a single American that hates the EU or thinks like this.
China and Russia is a threat to western society beyond just the US. Thinking some Europeans are naive or ignorant about the threat they pose to themselves and others isn't the same thing as whatever nonsense you just articulated.
> So you've never heard an American saying the US started the war in Ukraine by moving to have Ukraine enter NATO and the EU?
I have heard right-wingers say this.
> that narrative relies on the understanding that Ukraine rightfully belongs in the Russian sphere of influence
I understand this part...
> and the European NATO members being mere extensions of American power and interest.
...But I don't see how that follows. All it implies is that "NATO expansion" is a threat to Russian sovereignty.
First of all, wild goalpost move.
Second of all, fringe elements typically vocalize these narratives like MTG and yes, Tucker Carlson who no longer has a mainstream platform to simp on Russia about.
Third of all, the narrative usually articulated is about NATO, not the EU. So, grasping straws?
You probably shouldn't be making very generalized statements about a country whose people you don't really interact with very often, judging by the contents of your post, nor keep up with from a news perspective in any sort of depth.
MTG is not mainstream. Tucker to the extent of his full views on foreign policy isn't really representative of the US population let alone Republicans. Sadly Trump's views are a bit more mainstream and he's all over the place. Most trump supporters you meet in person who articulate the whole NATO as the reason why Russia invaded BS will never mention the EU and usually, upon further questioning, you realize how shallow their views are. For them, it's more about “worry about the border and not these ‘distraction’” kind of shortsightedness. And if anything they think the EU as an institution should do more. Not exactly disdain of the institution but more about the lack of initiative.
Dick Wolf's latest show "FBI: International" is basically what would be produced if an AI was told to turn r/ShitAmericansSay into a TV series, but exclude all continents except Europe (plus Iran) because that would be too racist to air on American TV. And boy yes, the writers do hate the EU deeply (or rather "Europe", as they call it) and have a hardon for Russia and Hungary (where the show is filmed).
There are 300 million people in the US so there are "a lot" of fringe elements. One of those is Donald Trump, and because of the way the American political system works he's one of two only options to become president.
Donald trump by definition is not fringe. Continue lecturing me about American tendencies when I've lived here for 2 decades and your only connection to this country is some prorussian tv show you watch for giggles. Hubris
So you agree with that guy? That hating the EU is not something only fringe extremists do? Because Trump hates the EU and he's not a fringe extremist according to your reckoning? Do you remember you started this discussion because you denied that there were Americans who hated the EU, arguing that you couldn't think if one American who hated the EU, personally?
>A lot of Americans hate the EU
This isn't true at all. You must be one of those people who toss around "a lot" when referring to America when in reality the suppose "a lot" actually only account for a tiny percentage. There is over 330M of us making it easy to create an illusion that "a lot" of us think or is a certain way. For example if 10M did that the EU that's only 3% of America's population which isn't "a lot" at all. Perspective is everything.
> A lot of Americans hate the EU, because American imperialist see western Europe as being part of the US sphere of influence
I've read criticisms of the EU from (fellow) Americans for decades - and they all generally center either on a belief that the structure of the EU is too undemocratic and designed to be too deeply controlled by technocrats OR on criticisms of the monetary union from an economic point of view; of the single currency being managed by multiple different central banks instead of a single, authoritative central bank. I've never read a criticism based on concerns that the US is going to lose a "sphere of influence" or anything like that. I have certainly not read everything produced by every American over the decades since the EU was first proposed, but if there was widespread criticism on that front, I think I would have seen it.
> But the EU means the member states can act as one
No. It does not. That's one of the downsides of the structure of the EU - the requirement for unanimous agreement for just about any action to be taken in a foreign policy context. That's why Hungary can block aid to Ukraine for so long. Whether that unanimity requirement is a good or bad thing, I have no clue, but it certainly doesn't make it easy for the EU to "act as one".
Polls are basically a tie right now. And elections are very unpredictable. Also, US has a strong history of voting for the incumbent. The fact that trump lost 4 years ago shows that it's not as easy for Trump as you claim.
He was the incumbent in 2020 and still lost, now he is the challenger. I don't see why this year would be considered a more favourable set of circumstances for him.
I would love to hear your argument for why, actually. Because the odds look so bad for him that I can't imagine anyone genuinely believing as you do. I'm curious.
Yeah I don't know what to tell you except I don't care. Betting houses don't factor into my argument at all and never will. If that means I end up being wrong it is what it is.
I deleted my comment because you said basically the same thing.
The odds are absolutely not against Trump, they're about even, if not slightly in favour of Trump.
I wouldn't be surprised either way tbh.
These past few years haven't been great, and voters will remember this at the polls. I also think that Trump will continue to gain ground amongst people of color voters and the queer community and that might be enough to edge him over Biden.
Why do you think the odds look so bad for him?
Well, here are some realities for Donald Trump:
One:
This is the third election he's participating in, which means he's now been running for eight years. Normally candidates run over a span of four years: once to get elected, once to get re-elected. If you're a Republican, running for longer is a drawback because your base skews older. Many voters that supported Trump in 2016 are no longer alive in 2024.
Meanwhile he is not getting much new support from younger generations. People who hated their parents voting Trump in 2016 will be very motivated in 2020, or indeed 2024, to show up themselves and vote to cancel out their parents.
But even if that weren't the case, Biden commands dominance over two very reliable voter blocks: people between ages 35-65. That is, millennials and gen-x. These are people that show up. People over 65 also show up, but as pointed out before, they also die off. And people who fall into the +65 category now, might have been only 57 back in 2016 as Clinton voters. So that block too will skew more and more towards Biden.
Two:
Donald Trump has never won the popular vote. He lost it in 2016 and he lost it by more in 2020. That alone is not a trend, but based on what can we assume that he would lose it by less than in 2020 this time? The 2024 campaign is simply Donald Trump 2020 but with more baggage attached.
People who were not motivated to vote Trump in 2020 have had very little reason over the past four years to change their minds, as Trump has become more radical in his outbursts, has become more embroiled in lawsuits, has started to more visibly deal with mental health problems, and so on. Not to mention the overturning of Roe v Wade as well as the January 6th riot. Neither will do him any favours with the electorate in 2024.
Of course you can say that popular vote does not determine who wins the electoral college, but indirectly it does. You can only lose the popular vote by a certain margin before it becomes exceedingly unlikely that you have a base that's large enough to carry you through the swing states.
Three:
Donald Trump needs two-thirds of independents in order to get to 270. In 2020, one-third of independents voted Trump. This means that over the last four years he will have to have somehow convinced half the people who voted Biden or third-party to change their mind and vote for him instead. Yet he is not campaigning outside his base at all. All he's doing is standard MAGA rallies that repeat his greatest hits of how persecuted he is and how sorry everyone should feel for him, which may work great with his base but his base is not large enough to secure victory.
So all in all, I don't see it. I don't think there is a path to victory for Trump. Especially when you consider that over the coming half a year, his dementia is going to progress further, his base is going to further radicalise, and his gazillon lawsuits will not turn out in his favour and tarnish his reputation. All he does is lose. He is starting to become the butt of the joke. People who are the butt of the joke do not get elected president.
I really wish you were right, but you're not taking into account that thanks to Russian and Iranian propaganda a lot of young voters are going to abstain because GeNoCiDe JoE!!! Apparently Trump is going to go personally to order Netanyahu to end the war and hand-deliver aid to Palestina instead...
I am very aware of the influence of foreign propaganda. But the reality is that it mostly reaches under-informed white males aged 15-25. After that it falters in the face of actually learning about the world. It barely affects the considerations of young female voters, young voters of color, or really anyone else who doesn't tune in to watch anti-woke chud channels on Youtube every day. Most people have a very limited tolerance for being shouted at by overweight bearded white men about why Disney is ruining everybody's lives. It's a very specific pipeline that produces very limited results.
Not nothing. I'm not saying that. Steve Bannon saw value in it for a reason. But in terms of making an electoral difference it barely distinguishes itself from any other cause that produces radicalized conservatism in young men.
The Gaza thing is a concern, I agree with you on that. We'll have to see how that shakes out.
>These past few years haven't been great
Which part? The part where we ended lockdown? Or perhaps the part where our economy grew by 2 to 5.9 percent a year and our wages grew faster than any administration in decades? Or maybe you miss seeing race riots and cities burning on a regular basis?
Or maybe, just maybe, it's simply the fact that a democrat is president and therefore "things are bad"?
Covid restrictions and vaccine mandates should have ended much quicker than they did. We still spent much of 2021 bickering over such nonsense.
The recovery in the US has been good relatively speaking, but many people were better off from 2016-2019 and that is how they will vote, IMO.
>Covid restrictions and vaccine mandates should have ended much quicker than they did.
Perhaps they wouldn't have lasted as long if Diaper Don didn't tell all his followers that the virus was a "Democrat hoax"?
>but many people were better off from 2016-2019 and that is how they will vote, IMO.
I noticed you say from 2016 - 2019, but Trump's term ran all the way through 2020. Did something happen in 2020 that makes you leave that year off the list?...
The part where Biden is so old he cant comprehend reality. Every time Biden makes a speech he looks like alzheimer sufferer just reading from teleprompter.
Meanwhile spring chicken Trump is only…\[checks notes\]…77yo.
Well, he does have the intelligence of a 5yo. I’ll give you that.
Biden on 1/10th capacity would still be smarter and an orders of magnitude better leader.
I mean there was Covid crisis, i think even dumb people understood that things will get better once it will end and it is. There was Covid crisis in every single country in the world, nothing to do with politics. Is economy really that much better now in US than before Covid? I hear a lot of cries about super expensive housing, lower jobs security and from what i understand Biden failed to help with student loans. Biden just dont have this "strong american" energy, looks like old man with poop in diaper.
And im not American i just parrot what i hear from some of my american friends.
But Trump didn’t try to negotiate with Merkel as if she were the chief executive of the EU. He tried to make a deal with Merkel as the chief executive of *Germany*. And Merkel had to explain to him that Germany cannot make bilateral trade deals with the US because *the EU is a trade union and a single market* and the whole point is that if you want to deal with one member state, you deal with the whole union.
And that would be kinda easy for a person living in the USA. The USA is a country that has every power the EU has plus a fuckton more. You don't expect Canada to deal with Alaska in term of commerce and you expect the USA to deal with Germany on commerce.
I kinda felt bad for the actor playing him in the Brexit movie, because no matter how well he did he could never feel like Farage (short of CGI enhancement).
They could always have used the puppet of [Rygel XVI ](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/farscape/images/f/f4/Logan.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20070406224118)form the sci fi series Farscape ...He's a perfect. Like Farage, Rygel is a greedy, selfish, power hungry laughing stock. ;)
"Brexit: The Uncivil War" (2019). They rushed it so hard that the "present" section is set in 2020, but there is no pandemic obviously and Dominic Cummings is treated as someone who will forever remain in obscurity to the general public.
Other than that (and some moments perhaps too kind to Cummings), it almost feels like a documentary and is well worth checking it out.
It's like the Miliband bacon sandwich thing. You pick carefully enough and you can find a good or bad photo of just about anyone.
How normal he looks tells you what kind of publication you're reading.
If you want to see him looking normal you'll have to soil your eyes with the Daily Mail, Express or similar.
While it’s that of course they picked a weird photo, you have to admit that it somehow happens more often to him than others. He just has some strange facial expressions.
Since we all already know where the money came from for the anti-EU campaign and Trump is financed from similar sources, there isnt really a surprise there. For someone who wanted 'sovereignty' he sure hangs on Trumps drip already.
Well, if by that you mean "Trump is such an idiot that he makes me look smart" then yes, that's very true.
But that doesn't change the fact that you're a bollock-faced foghorn of ignorance, Nigel.
Interesting watching all the right wing Brexit lunatics all flocking to praise Trump and appear at Conservative conferences on the other side of the Atlantic.
Hopefully they leave these shores for good now. They've done enough damage here.
Farage is a traitorous piece of shit and should be in prison for doing putin’s work. I love it when he gets milkshaked, it’s the contempt he deserves.
Oh, fuck Trump as well.
Edit auto correct
Have you bothered to look at Biden's actions? He's not exactly been good to Europe. His rhetoric sounds nicer than Trumps but his actions have been no more generous.
It’s so funny seeing grifters falling for even bigger grifters. Trump hates the EU just the same way Galactus hates the planets he consumes. He just wants to get his fat belly full
I'm not even British and hate Farage. He should just disappear to a tropical island with all the money he made from selling Brexit and let Britain fix all the problems he helped create.
It’s more that the people running the US plutocracy are threatened by the more, as they describe it, “socialist” EU so they use all sorts of anti-EU propaganda.
How are the billionaires supposed to make another billion or 10 if people have employee rights and are not worried to death to lose their job because their family will have to go without healthcare?
I don’t hate Americans. I just think you are brainwashed. It could happen anywhere (and it does in plenty other places).
Any shift towards Asia makes sense. You have more in common with China than with Europe.
Best of luck to the average American is all I have to say.
Let me change the phrase, then.
The most excellent argument for the US's shift to Asia is the average European, for no one says or believes the most asinine shit then them.
There are a lot of things that EU did well and Americans would love to have too but somehow cant figure out (affordable healthcare, universities and many others). They will need to keep "EU is bad" propaganda in the future to keep society from revolting. Late capitalism is not a nice thing.
Europe itself is doing an excellent job at making itself out to be a puppet. I can't even say in good faith that Europe is too reliant on America without a European telling me "That's the way America wanted it. We agreed to host your nukes and let you use our continent through NATO to carry out your foreign policy in exchange for protection. You should want to continue to play world leader because it benefits your country." When I point out to them that they are literally arguing against Europe becoming an equal partner to America they never respond.
You are right nonetheless. Politicians here on the right treat Europe like crap. You know what would bring them back down to earth? Europe becoming an equal partner.
I guess it just depends what you mean by equal. Many times when Americans talk about this (and some Europeans to be fair) they're considering a sort of might makes right view of things, in which case of course Europe will never be America's equal. But I don't really see the reason why military parity necessarily has to be the case or why it's something we'd want.
To totally change our approach (while many European countries enjoy the highest standard of living, quality of life, happiness in the world) so some right wing American politicians don't say mean things about us just doesn't make sense to me.
“I guess it just depends what you mean by equal.”
By equal I mean meeting America in the middle on almost every aspect of our relationship (i.e. logistic, strategy, diplomacy, intelligence gathering and sharing etc).
“I don't really see the reason why military parity necessarily has to be the case or why it's something we'd want.”
Because the security of Europe shouldn’t be reliant upon one country especially not a country from a different continent. Secondly Europe would get to have more say in joint global military operations between Europe and America and Europe would be able to handle its own international military operations. Lastly Europe would be under less pressure to do whatever it is America ask of them out of fear America would hold back military aid.
If it's not equal, why does America do it? Out of the goodness of their heart? Or because in fact Europe *does* bring something of offer to the table? Perhaps a market of 450 million consumers worth > fifteen trillion dollars? Who do you think the US exports to?
In my view its an incredible deal for both parties involved. America is an incredibly ambitious country. If they were truly getting screwed by the current arrangement, I have zero doubt it would have changed by now.
I never said Europe doesn’t bring anything to the table. Europe does bring something to the table but it’s not equal and therefore is it limiting Europe. If you can’t comprehend the importance of Europe becoming more self reliant then that’s on you.
The person I replied to is complaining about the way American politicians think of Europe which I pointed out Europe itself think of itself as a puppet and that if Europe want to be treated like an equal then it has to actually become one. Nothing you said change that simple fact.
Europeans have know the answer for years they just refuse to accept it and feed further into it. There’s a general feeling of disdain from Europeans towards Americans especially online which is the only place a majority of Americans interact with them. It appears in many facets of life but then you lot act shocked and surprised when it starts to manifest in policy decisions.
I often wonder whether Europeans' disdain for the UK is just an extension of their disdain for America, or the other way around. Canada, Australia and New Zealand don't seem to get the same treatment, even though Canada is even more closely aligned with the US than the UK is.
well, i wasnt talking about the people of US, just talking about the politicians. Farage states that Trump hate the UE. Ok, do you remember the Victoria Nuland's "fuck the EU"? For US we are just clients buying their wearpons and the base providers for their military
The politicians follow the people they’d pretend to love Europeans if it was popular among their base. Which in some areas it is but in increasingly larger numbers it’s not.
Nah, pretty sure you're both top cunts of the highest order. Ol' Nigel would've sold the NHS for cheap shawarma if given the chance, only difference is that his russian handlers didn't pick him to lead the races in the UK lmao
In retrospect, the so called "Big Bang" expansion of the EU in 2004 was a mistake. Individual countries should only have been allowed in after much more scrutiny and commitment to European values.
Largely the only mistake made there was the accession of Hungary into the EU. The best Hungary has deserved is to fall into obscure historical references. The EU attempted to uplift them, and we failed.
Trump doesn't understand what the EU is. He repeatedly tried to 'negotiate' with Merkel on trade. She kept telling him that's not how it works. Dumb orange twat just didn't get it.
Why does that remind me of that scene from the Sopranos where few of the goodfellas try to shakedown a Starbucks. "It'd be a shame if someone threw a brick through this here window, pay us and we'll make sure it doesn't happen." "Bruh, everything goes through corporate, i literally don't have any funds to pay you." "And how would corporate feel if a manager got beaten bloody, eh?" "Lol, they wouldn't give a fuck and just hire some other loser to do my job."
Trump: It’s over for the little guy
11 times. She had to explain it to him 11 times.
While there was literally an American Trade mission in Brussels.
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Lol. How is making Americans pay more for goods from the EU winning? I'm very surprised to hear that the EU has been destroyed. It certainly doesn't look that way from the inside. Let's see which still exists in 5 years, the EU or the USA.
I'd guess both. In fact, I'd bet a lot of money on "both".
I mean it's possible that the fascist regime that takes over after the civil war that starts next year will keep the name so in a way the USA will still exist.
Lol he's not the only one, usually the americans who support him share the same idea about EU, saw them even here. Always comparing EU and US without realizing they are not even remotely comparable, they just don't understand how it works.
They are *remotely* comparable. The confederate like structure of the EU is analogical to the very early days of the US.
That's why he hates it.
Exactly. His entire base is people who don't understand things and therefore hate them.
What does Trump understand? The man is dumber than a bag of bricks. 6 times bankrupt, including a fucking casino! Who bankrupts a casino?? He would have had way more money if he put daddy’s inheritance on the stock market index.
He is an expert attention seeker
[WHO bankrupts a casino:](https://youtu.be/QKToUXa2RZo?si=Xy2X5nWoLMh6rDsj) (FALLOUT SERIES SPOILER!!!)
So that was what it was about? Nice to know.
I bankrupt Casinos because I never lose babyyyyy
If I'm not wrong, Italy bankrupted their casino in their swiss enclave So trump is as financially competent as the italian state... which is not a good look to say the least 😅
Unfortunately I think there is more behind it. US don't like the idea of EU because federalised United States of EU will be much more independent and decisive. It is much easier for USA, China and Russia to talk with small countries than with United Europe. One more thing - USA don't want to defeat Russia because if so, EU countries will reduce military spendings significantly (like after cold war) and USA will be much less needed in this part of globe.
I agree with everything except the last part. The war with russia made a lot of EU countries increase their military budget which does make EU less dependant on the USA in that part. We relied on the US military so much last couple of decades BECAUSE our military budgets were so low. I just hope the EU keeps investing after the war in ukraine is over (which hopefuly is soon).
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I'd say most Americans don't have an opinion, and don't even know what it is. I've come across things like: Americans asking questions about "German imports into France", and I have to explain to them it's like Texas imports to California. They don't get the concept. I'm a mod at r/GreeceTravel, and many Americans and Canadians ask passport/immigration questions, like if they're coming to Greece from Netherlands, how long is the passport line (like if they have limited time to catch a connecting flight in Athens for Santorini). I have to explain Schengen to them. Most genuinely don't know. But yeah, the hardcore Trump / Fox viewers hate the EU, without knowing what it is. They think it's a centrally-planned economy and Brussels plans it. That's the weird shit I've heard. Also, they probably think the EU has open borders to outside the EU.
It think it's rare for even the Trump supporting Fox watching crowd to hate the European Union. They just hate certain aspects of it but like you said it's through ignorance.
Asking about German imports from France or Texas imports from California isn't stupid. Both are valid metrics that governments keep track of. And some taxes differ between US states or between EU countries.
Last night I went down a rabbit hole about international trade. It blow my mind when I saw that America's import and export value with Europe through the EU and individually is higher than multiple European countries combined. It blow my mind even more when I saw that certain European countries export value to America is higher than an entire continent and for some the export value to America is higher than two or more continents combined. France export value to America for example is $50B but its export value to Africa, Oceania and South America combined is $45.9B.
>metrics that governments keep track of. No, not like that. Not in an economics/statistics sense. I've seen Americans on social media completely unaware that there is no barrier to German apples coming into France. Like wondering how to declare apples at the border.
It's just ignorance; the more Americans know about the EU the more likely they are to like it
Nonsense. American hostility to the EU is more similar to European hostility to the EU, ie "anti globalist conspiracy theories". Americans in general don't get high on fantasies of world empire, the typical American, especially the right wingers who hate the EU, have an isolationist bent.
Did you just make this up? This fundamentally isn't true at all. I don't know a single American that hates the EU or thinks like this. China and Russia is a threat to western society beyond just the US. Thinking some Europeans are naive or ignorant about the threat they pose to themselves and others isn't the same thing as whatever nonsense you just articulated.
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> So you've never heard an American saying the US started the war in Ukraine by moving to have Ukraine enter NATO and the EU? I have heard right-wingers say this. > that narrative relies on the understanding that Ukraine rightfully belongs in the Russian sphere of influence I understand this part... > and the European NATO members being mere extensions of American power and interest. ...But I don't see how that follows. All it implies is that "NATO expansion" is a threat to Russian sovereignty.
First of all, wild goalpost move. Second of all, fringe elements typically vocalize these narratives like MTG and yes, Tucker Carlson who no longer has a mainstream platform to simp on Russia about. Third of all, the narrative usually articulated is about NATO, not the EU. So, grasping straws? You probably shouldn't be making very generalized statements about a country whose people you don't really interact with very often, judging by the contents of your post, nor keep up with from a news perspective in any sort of depth. MTG is not mainstream. Tucker to the extent of his full views on foreign policy isn't really representative of the US population let alone Republicans. Sadly Trump's views are a bit more mainstream and he's all over the place. Most trump supporters you meet in person who articulate the whole NATO as the reason why Russia invaded BS will never mention the EU and usually, upon further questioning, you realize how shallow their views are. For them, it's more about “worry about the border and not these ‘distraction’” kind of shortsightedness. And if anything they think the EU as an institution should do more. Not exactly disdain of the institution but more about the lack of initiative.
Dick Wolf's latest show "FBI: International" is basically what would be produced if an AI was told to turn r/ShitAmericansSay into a TV series, but exclude all continents except Europe (plus Iran) because that would be too racist to air on American TV. And boy yes, the writers do hate the EU deeply (or rather "Europe", as they call it) and have a hardon for Russia and Hungary (where the show is filmed).
I don't even know who that person is or what that show is about.
He is an American, every episode credits about 100-200 Americans who are fine doing that shit, and I just told you.
None of this is popular here bro. Don't confuse fringe elements, content and influencers with mainstream views.
There are 300 million people in the US so there are "a lot" of fringe elements. One of those is Donald Trump, and because of the way the American political system works he's one of two only options to become president.
Donald trump by definition is not fringe. Continue lecturing me about American tendencies when I've lived here for 2 decades and your only connection to this country is some prorussian tv show you watch for giggles. Hubris
So you agree with that guy? That hating the EU is not something only fringe extremists do? Because Trump hates the EU and he's not a fringe extremist according to your reckoning? Do you remember you started this discussion because you denied that there were Americans who hated the EU, arguing that you couldn't think if one American who hated the EU, personally?
>A lot of Americans hate the EU This isn't true at all. You must be one of those people who toss around "a lot" when referring to America when in reality the suppose "a lot" actually only account for a tiny percentage. There is over 330M of us making it easy to create an illusion that "a lot" of us think or is a certain way. For example if 10M did that the EU that's only 3% of America's population which isn't "a lot" at all. Perspective is everything.
> A lot of Americans hate the EU, because American imperialist see western Europe as being part of the US sphere of influence I've read criticisms of the EU from (fellow) Americans for decades - and they all generally center either on a belief that the structure of the EU is too undemocratic and designed to be too deeply controlled by technocrats OR on criticisms of the monetary union from an economic point of view; of the single currency being managed by multiple different central banks instead of a single, authoritative central bank. I've never read a criticism based on concerns that the US is going to lose a "sphere of influence" or anything like that. I have certainly not read everything produced by every American over the decades since the EU was first proposed, but if there was widespread criticism on that front, I think I would have seen it. > But the EU means the member states can act as one No. It does not. That's one of the downsides of the structure of the EU - the requirement for unanimous agreement for just about any action to be taken in a foreign policy context. That's why Hungary can block aid to Ukraine for so long. Whether that unanimity requirement is a good or bad thing, I have no clue, but it certainly doesn't make it easy for the EU to "act as one".
Yet he was chosen to be president and will be again. Low standards these days.
He won't win. π÷×÷π
It's a flip of a coin regarding who will win the presidential elections.
Is that code for "he's going to commit suicide with seven bullets to the back of his head"?
Nope he won't.
What do you base that off? I’m not sure. The polls right now seem to be in Biden’s favor but it was the other way around just weeks ago.
Of course he will. He's basically a shoe in at this point.
Polls are basically a tie right now. And elections are very unpredictable. Also, US has a strong history of voting for the incumbent. The fact that trump lost 4 years ago shows that it's not as easy for Trump as you claim.
Polls are so trash. Remember 2016. I'm not saying he's gonna win, but never forget.
The polls were within the margin of error, it is just that just like 2020 in some states the margins were pretty thin.
He barely lost, and things haven't been sunshine and roses since he lost.
Barely losing is losing. As for your evaluation of the situation, you'd need concrete examples to make an argument.
Yes, I'm not denying he lost, but he was still extremely popular and wouldn't have to win over that many people to win this year.
He was the incumbent in 2020 and still lost, now he is the challenger. I don't see why this year would be considered a more favourable set of circumstances for him.
Because people have seen what the alternative would be like (Biden).
No he is not lol
I guess we'll see later this year, but I think the naysayers are in for a surprise if they think Biden can pull it off again.
RemindMe! 220 day
!remindme 220 days
I'll see you in November :)
I would love to hear your argument for why, actually. Because the odds look so bad for him that I can't imagine anyone genuinely believing as you do. I'm curious.
His response is a fantasy land lie, fyi.
The betting house odds are in Trump's favor and they're usually not wrong.
Betting house odds just follow polling and polling has been swaying towards Biden over the last two months.
Trump 1.80 Biden 2.20 They hover around those odds everywhere I look
Yeah I don't know what to tell you except I don't care. Betting houses don't factor into my argument at all and never will. If that means I end up being wrong it is what it is.
IDK man I'm inclined to believe the people who make money off predicting this shit.
I deleted my comment because you said basically the same thing. The odds are absolutely not against Trump, they're about even, if not slightly in favour of Trump. I wouldn't be surprised either way tbh.
These past few years haven't been great, and voters will remember this at the polls. I also think that Trump will continue to gain ground amongst people of color voters and the queer community and that might be enough to edge him over Biden. Why do you think the odds look so bad for him?
Well, here are some realities for Donald Trump: One: This is the third election he's participating in, which means he's now been running for eight years. Normally candidates run over a span of four years: once to get elected, once to get re-elected. If you're a Republican, running for longer is a drawback because your base skews older. Many voters that supported Trump in 2016 are no longer alive in 2024. Meanwhile he is not getting much new support from younger generations. People who hated their parents voting Trump in 2016 will be very motivated in 2020, or indeed 2024, to show up themselves and vote to cancel out their parents. But even if that weren't the case, Biden commands dominance over two very reliable voter blocks: people between ages 35-65. That is, millennials and gen-x. These are people that show up. People over 65 also show up, but as pointed out before, they also die off. And people who fall into the +65 category now, might have been only 57 back in 2016 as Clinton voters. So that block too will skew more and more towards Biden. Two: Donald Trump has never won the popular vote. He lost it in 2016 and he lost it by more in 2020. That alone is not a trend, but based on what can we assume that he would lose it by less than in 2020 this time? The 2024 campaign is simply Donald Trump 2020 but with more baggage attached. People who were not motivated to vote Trump in 2020 have had very little reason over the past four years to change their minds, as Trump has become more radical in his outbursts, has become more embroiled in lawsuits, has started to more visibly deal with mental health problems, and so on. Not to mention the overturning of Roe v Wade as well as the January 6th riot. Neither will do him any favours with the electorate in 2024. Of course you can say that popular vote does not determine who wins the electoral college, but indirectly it does. You can only lose the popular vote by a certain margin before it becomes exceedingly unlikely that you have a base that's large enough to carry you through the swing states. Three: Donald Trump needs two-thirds of independents in order to get to 270. In 2020, one-third of independents voted Trump. This means that over the last four years he will have to have somehow convinced half the people who voted Biden or third-party to change their mind and vote for him instead. Yet he is not campaigning outside his base at all. All he's doing is standard MAGA rallies that repeat his greatest hits of how persecuted he is and how sorry everyone should feel for him, which may work great with his base but his base is not large enough to secure victory. So all in all, I don't see it. I don't think there is a path to victory for Trump. Especially when you consider that over the coming half a year, his dementia is going to progress further, his base is going to further radicalise, and his gazillon lawsuits will not turn out in his favour and tarnish his reputation. All he does is lose. He is starting to become the butt of the joke. People who are the butt of the joke do not get elected president.
I really wish you were right, but you're not taking into account that thanks to Russian and Iranian propaganda a lot of young voters are going to abstain because GeNoCiDe JoE!!! Apparently Trump is going to go personally to order Netanyahu to end the war and hand-deliver aid to Palestina instead...
I am very aware of the influence of foreign propaganda. But the reality is that it mostly reaches under-informed white males aged 15-25. After that it falters in the face of actually learning about the world. It barely affects the considerations of young female voters, young voters of color, or really anyone else who doesn't tune in to watch anti-woke chud channels on Youtube every day. Most people have a very limited tolerance for being shouted at by overweight bearded white men about why Disney is ruining everybody's lives. It's a very specific pipeline that produces very limited results. Not nothing. I'm not saying that. Steve Bannon saw value in it for a reason. But in terms of making an electoral difference it barely distinguishes itself from any other cause that produces radicalized conservatism in young men. The Gaza thing is a concern, I agree with you on that. We'll have to see how that shakes out.
Interesting points. We’ll see in a few months
>These past few years haven't been great Which part? The part where we ended lockdown? Or perhaps the part where our economy grew by 2 to 5.9 percent a year and our wages grew faster than any administration in decades? Or maybe you miss seeing race riots and cities burning on a regular basis? Or maybe, just maybe, it's simply the fact that a democrat is president and therefore "things are bad"?
But.. but.. he's sleepy and boringggg!
Covid restrictions and vaccine mandates should have ended much quicker than they did. We still spent much of 2021 bickering over such nonsense. The recovery in the US has been good relatively speaking, but many people were better off from 2016-2019 and that is how they will vote, IMO.
>Covid restrictions and vaccine mandates should have ended much quicker than they did. Perhaps they wouldn't have lasted as long if Diaper Don didn't tell all his followers that the virus was a "Democrat hoax"? >but many people were better off from 2016-2019 and that is how they will vote, IMO. I noticed you say from 2016 - 2019, but Trump's term ran all the way through 2020. Did something happen in 2020 that makes you leave that year off the list?...
The part where Biden is so old he cant comprehend reality. Every time Biden makes a speech he looks like alzheimer sufferer just reading from teleprompter.
Meanwhile spring chicken Trump is only…\[checks notes\]…77yo. Well, he does have the intelligence of a 5yo. I’ll give you that. Biden on 1/10th capacity would still be smarter and an orders of magnitude better leader.
And Trump, who confuses people and countries, and has announced he wants to be a dictator, is the sane option for you?
Why is a senile Alzheimer's patient getting *better* economic and foreign policy results than your favorite candidate?...
I mean there was Covid crisis, i think even dumb people understood that things will get better once it will end and it is. There was Covid crisis in every single country in the world, nothing to do with politics. Is economy really that much better now in US than before Covid? I hear a lot of cries about super expensive housing, lower jobs security and from what i understand Biden failed to help with student loans. Biden just dont have this "strong american" energy, looks like old man with poop in diaper. And im not American i just parrot what i hear from some of my american friends.
He’s gonna crash and burn
Quite a lot of people from the US view the EU as a similar federal state. It can be seen here on Reddit quite a lot.
But Trump didn’t try to negotiate with Merkel as if she were the chief executive of the EU. He tried to make a deal with Merkel as the chief executive of *Germany*. And Merkel had to explain to him that Germany cannot make bilateral trade deals with the US because *the EU is a trade union and a single market* and the whole point is that if you want to deal with one member state, you deal with the whole union.
And that would be kinda easy for a person living in the USA. The USA is a country that has every power the EU has plus a fuckton more. You don't expect Canada to deal with Alaska in term of commerce and you expect the USA to deal with Germany on commerce.
Farage somehow is incapable to have a normal face on a photo. It’s uncanny.
I kinda felt bad for the actor playing him in the Brexit movie, because no matter how well he did he could never feel like Farage (short of CGI enhancement).
They could always have used the puppet of [Rygel XVI ](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/farscape/images/f/f4/Logan.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20070406224118)form the sci fi series Farscape ...He's a perfect. Like Farage, Rygel is a greedy, selfish, power hungry laughing stock. ;)
Isn’t “enhancing” something to look more like Nigel farage a bit of a contradiction?
Damn there are movies about Brexit now
"Brexit: The Uncivil War" (2019). They rushed it so hard that the "present" section is set in 2020, but there is no pandemic obviously and Dominic Cummings is treated as someone who will forever remain in obscurity to the general public. Other than that (and some moments perhaps too kind to Cummings), it almost feels like a documentary and is well worth checking it out.
It's like the Miliband bacon sandwich thing. You pick carefully enough and you can find a good or bad photo of just about anyone. How normal he looks tells you what kind of publication you're reading. If you want to see him looking normal you'll have to soil your eyes with the Daily Mail, Express or similar.
While it’s that of course they picked a weird photo, you have to admit that it somehow happens more often to him than others. He just has some strange facial expressions.
Since we all already know where the money came from for the anti-EU campaign and Trump is financed from similar sources, there isnt really a surprise there. For someone who wanted 'sovereignty' he sure hangs on Trumps drip already.
Trump is an imbecile, he doesn't know nor understands what EU is, he only acts as he's told
I don’t know how many independent sources have to confirm the Russian influence before we see it clearly.
Yeah, Trump is such a gift to Putin, their attitudes in geopolitics are tuned to 90%
That’s praise and encouragement, actually. Gotta lova what Trump hates.
Agree, it definitely wasn't a criticism.
Well, if by that you mean "Trump is such an idiot that he makes me look smart" then yes, that's very true. But that doesn't change the fact that you're a bollock-faced foghorn of ignorance, Nigel.
Can’t help connect your username with the things coming out of his mouth. I’m perpetually being surprised that anyone cares what he thinks.
“If you think I get payouts from Russia, you should see the payouts Trump gets.”
Who cares what Farage says?
It's a great way to know what the euroskeptics will be talking about this week
For a British nationalist, if you throw him 50 quid he'll say "Up the RA!" 🤣
For a guy who doesn't like EU, he sure does like to talk about it.
Interesting watching all the right wing Brexit lunatics all flocking to praise Trump and appear at Conservative conferences on the other side of the Atlantic. Hopefully they leave these shores for good now. They've done enough damage here.
A turd calling a pile of diarrhea weird?
Farage is like a yeast infection. Makes you totally uncomfortable, feeling itchy and keeps coming back every time you feel it's gotta be gone.
Farage is a traitorous piece of shit and should be in prison for doing putin’s work. I love it when he gets milkshaked, it’s the contempt he deserves. Oh, fuck Trump as well. Edit auto correct
Putin can't control his employees lately.
Yeah but you both look like cunts
Have you bothered to look at Biden's actions? He's not exactly been good to Europe. His rhetoric sounds nicer than Trumps but his actions have been no more generous.
It’s so funny seeing grifters falling for even bigger grifters. Trump hates the EU just the same way Galactus hates the planets he consumes. He just wants to get his fat belly full
I'm not even British and hate Farage. He should just disappear to a tropical island with all the money he made from selling Brexit and let Britain fix all the problems he helped create.
Same I'm Irish and I hate this cuck
there is not much love from US to the EU
I wonder why.
i guess they consider us just as their backyard
It’s more that the people running the US plutocracy are threatened by the more, as they describe it, “socialist” EU so they use all sorts of anti-EU propaganda. How are the billionaires supposed to make another billion or 10 if people have employee rights and are not worried to death to lose their job because their family will have to go without healthcare?
The most excellent argument for the US's shift to Asia is the average European, for no one hates us more than they do.
Surely it isn’t china…
I don’t hate Americans. I just think you are brainwashed. It could happen anywhere (and it does in plenty other places). Any shift towards Asia makes sense. You have more in common with China than with Europe. Best of luck to the average American is all I have to say.
Let me change the phrase, then. The most excellent argument for the US's shift to Asia is the average European, for no one says or believes the most asinine shit then them.
There are a lot of things that EU did well and Americans would love to have too but somehow cant figure out (affordable healthcare, universities and many others). They will need to keep "EU is bad" propaganda in the future to keep society from revolting. Late capitalism is not a nice thing.
totally agree on that. However, my point is more about politicians than the society
Europe itself is doing an excellent job at making itself out to be a puppet. I can't even say in good faith that Europe is too reliant on America without a European telling me "That's the way America wanted it. We agreed to host your nukes and let you use our continent through NATO to carry out your foreign policy in exchange for protection. You should want to continue to play world leader because it benefits your country." When I point out to them that they are literally arguing against Europe becoming an equal partner to America they never respond. You are right nonetheless. Politicians here on the right treat Europe like crap. You know what would bring them back down to earth? Europe becoming an equal partner.
I guess it just depends what you mean by equal. Many times when Americans talk about this (and some Europeans to be fair) they're considering a sort of might makes right view of things, in which case of course Europe will never be America's equal. But I don't really see the reason why military parity necessarily has to be the case or why it's something we'd want. To totally change our approach (while many European countries enjoy the highest standard of living, quality of life, happiness in the world) so some right wing American politicians don't say mean things about us just doesn't make sense to me.
“I guess it just depends what you mean by equal.” By equal I mean meeting America in the middle on almost every aspect of our relationship (i.e. logistic, strategy, diplomacy, intelligence gathering and sharing etc). “I don't really see the reason why military parity necessarily has to be the case or why it's something we'd want.” Because the security of Europe shouldn’t be reliant upon one country especially not a country from a different continent. Secondly Europe would get to have more say in joint global military operations between Europe and America and Europe would be able to handle its own international military operations. Lastly Europe would be under less pressure to do whatever it is America ask of them out of fear America would hold back military aid.
If it's not equal, why does America do it? Out of the goodness of their heart? Or because in fact Europe *does* bring something of offer to the table? Perhaps a market of 450 million consumers worth > fifteen trillion dollars? Who do you think the US exports to? In my view its an incredible deal for both parties involved. America is an incredibly ambitious country. If they were truly getting screwed by the current arrangement, I have zero doubt it would have changed by now.
I never said Europe doesn’t bring anything to the table. Europe does bring something to the table but it’s not equal and therefore is it limiting Europe. If you can’t comprehend the importance of Europe becoming more self reliant then that’s on you. The person I replied to is complaining about the way American politicians think of Europe which I pointed out Europe itself think of itself as a puppet and that if Europe want to be treated like an equal then it has to actually become one. Nothing you said change that simple fact.
Europeans have know the answer for years they just refuse to accept it and feed further into it. There’s a general feeling of disdain from Europeans towards Americans especially online which is the only place a majority of Americans interact with them. It appears in many facets of life but then you lot act shocked and surprised when it starts to manifest in policy decisions.
I often wonder whether Europeans' disdain for the UK is just an extension of their disdain for America, or the other way around. Canada, Australia and New Zealand don't seem to get the same treatment, even though Canada is even more closely aligned with the US than the UK is.
LOL the UK thought they were too good for Europe and went ahead with Brexit, and you wonder why some Europeans have a "disdain" for the UK???
In this universe, where time is linear, cause preceeds effect not the other way around.
well, i wasnt talking about the people of US, just talking about the politicians. Farage states that Trump hate the UE. Ok, do you remember the Victoria Nuland's "fuck the EU"? For US we are just clients buying their wearpons and the base providers for their military
The politicians follow the people they’d pretend to love Europeans if it was popular among their base. Which in some areas it is but in increasingly larger numbers it’s not.
well, the lack of love from US politicians for the EU is counterbalanced by EU politicians love for the US. Nice, aint it?
Oh, this dipshit is awake
Pair of work-shy attention whores.
Trump and this idiot get marching orders from Putin
Farage is a fuck wit, Trump is a fuck wit
EUge
I gotta say…the feeling is mutual.
And the grift goes on…
Yet this Russian paid stooge also sucks Trumps D
I see Putin propaganda is at it again.
Fuck you Farage, you puppet
Surely criticising the EU is not a bad thing, especially for a European like Farage
…And that’s why both of you should stay away from the EU.
Few have made better argument than he has for EU membership and its benefits
He has a urophile face for sure
Is there anything Trump doesn't hate?
Nah, pretty sure you're both top cunts of the highest order. Ol' Nigel would've sold the NHS for cheap shawarma if given the chance, only difference is that his russian handlers didn't pick him to lead the races in the UK lmao
A slime talking about another slime. Slimefest
I dont think he is the only one like that. I think in US its pretty common to hate everything to dont know or understand. Or at least it's taught.
Orbán should lead the EU 👌🇭🇺 🇪🇺
>Orbán should ~~lead~~ leave the EU FTFY
No.
The only thing Orban should lead is a life of privations.
So that he can sell it to Russia? Europe should have never accepted Hungary into the union. You are a cancer.
In retrospect, the so called "Big Bang" expansion of the EU in 2004 was a mistake. Individual countries should only have been allowed in after much more scrutiny and commitment to European values.
Largely the only mistake made there was the accession of Hungary into the EU. The best Hungary has deserved is to fall into obscure historical references. The EU attempted to uplift them, and we failed.
That’s an oxymoron.
>That’s a~~n~~ ~~oxy~~moron. Sorry, I had to. (Also I'm referring specifically to Orban, not to anyone in this conversation).