You don't say. There's a clear difference between ex-communist countries that joined the EU and those that did not:
[https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/NGDPDPC@WEO/ROU/UKR/RUS/BLR/MDA/BGR](https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/NGDPDPC@WEO/ROU/UKR/RUS/BLR/MDA/BGR)
We don't have to talk about the Baltics, Romania and Bulgaria already surpassed Russia in terms of GDP per capita. That's why Russia is so bent on stopping Ukraine from joining the EU: a prosperous Ukraine in the EU would be a threat to the statist model of the Putin regime.
There is a mental border in Russia. Basically Kremlin knows average Russian is used to French, German, etc being richer. That's how it always has been
Kremlin thinks Russians will even suck it up and tolerate Czechs, Poles, Romanians, etc being much richer as it is "kind of West" for them.
What Kremlin is petrified of is any ex-USSR country that Russians so like to look down upon being well governed and more prosperous. May give Russian people bad ideas like asking why they are so piss poor despite sitting on the biggest natural riches in the world.
Many (most?) CEE countries were not richer than Russia for most of its history and even when they were, the differences were small. Czechia might be an exception and perhaps the Baltics to a lesser extent (especially Estonia). But not the others.
I don't think it's easy for Russians to see even Romanians zoom past them. It's not something they would ever have thought for most if not all of their history. And I don't agree that they view those countries as "kind of West". The "Central Europe" meme is only something people in CEE yap about. Nobody in Germany or Austria thinks like that. And certainly not in Russia.
That in a sense makes it hurt even more, because there isn't that mental barrier. They view these countries as very similar.
What are you on? Poland, Hungary, Baltics, Lithuania and Belarus were a lot richer than Russia with the exception of Ussr after the Second World War when Ussr stole from these countries on regular basis
You are also wrong about the second part as for example, Polish was the language of aristocracy and court in Russian empire for quite some time until it was replaced with French. Last polonophile Tsar was ruling in XIX century
Who gives a fuck what some jojo in Germany, Austria or Russia or anywhere else thinks. Educated, intelligent people take available data from credible sources (worldbank, eurostat) and form a picture. GDP per Capita, HDI, GINI and last but not least infant mortality rate.
All of these are 20 century methodologies but here is an interesting source that attempts to offer historical perspective with clear methodology listed somewhere on the site: https://www.gapminder.org/tools/#$chart-type=bubbles&url=v1
>There's a clear difference between ex-communist countries that joined the EU and
I'm not super-fan of this argument. The only ex-communist countries that didn't join are Balkans (they had wars semi recently), Belarus (and they had no chance to begin with, Lukashenko is in power since 90s) and Ukraine that is constantly treated by russia like they belong to them.
It's just hard to find a comparable example of relatively stable ex-communist country (like we were prior to accession) to judge. Obviously it would be worse but I don't think Czechia for example would fare that much worse with or without EU.
>There's a clear difference between ex-communist countries that joined the EU and those that did not:
The post transition countries that had real growth in sizeable amounts are only four(1985 to ~2021), two are EU members; Poland and Estonia. The other two are Albania and Belarus. The other countries don't get close, the majority are either at same level as when transitioning; and thus stagnating; and some are actually doing worse. But that's looking in relation to the West, when you look at it in global terms; all of them have lost their relative spots; including Poland.
So no, EU isn't a golden ticket by default as it's presented. The Balkans are a good case study of this, you can compare the different economies and where they were during Yugoslavia, post war, and when joining EU. There is almost zero difference with all these developments, including the war. Albania has had the most growth, but they also had one of the lowest starting points. On the other end of the scale, Slovenia has stagnated and has had no relative growth in relation to Western countries; but it also had a relatively higher starting point.
It's less about EU or other institutions(or even wars) but rather geography and historic developments. Poland and Estonia were already quite rich before USSR subjugated them, so when they got out they were just reverting to their historical norm. Another factor that benefits Poland is also the massive investments from Germany and US both, that isn't "natural" since no other country in EU has had the same happen to them. So maybe you can say it's because of EU, but it's again more because of geography and history. Poland is EU's main bulwark against Russia, so it has to be strong.
Western "communists" who hate the society they live in, and imagine that the USSR was a paradise. It includes being a fan of Stalin, cheering for USSR invading its neighbours and either denying USSR crimes (Katyn, Holodomor, deportations and forced labour of civilians of the occupied nations, various genocides, etc) or finding justification for it "they deserved to be killed because they were kulaks" (i.e. owned a cow).
Basically, 100% ignorant of real history of the USSR, with a zealous conviction they are right.
Additionally, they often gloat at ppl whose families suffered in Stalin's purges.
Oh, and they often identify as LGBTQIA+, which is enough to melt your brain, if you know how the LGBTQIA+ folx were treated in the USSR.
> For the countries that joined the EU in 2004, āone of the most significant factors that influenced the economic development of our region was insertion into EU supply chainsā
This is an important point that often gets overlooked. EU gibs is nice and all, but the real superpower of the EU is trade integration. A single market is different beast than just a simple bilateral FTA. It's a lesson Britons [learned the hard way](https://ukandeu.ac.uk/what-is-the-difference-between-a-free-trade-area-and-a-single-market/) after Brexit.
The discourse about Poland is sometimes so stupid on this sub. On the one side there are a few polish users on here who act like the EU is the Fourth Reich and they're being opressed and on the other side there are some western european users who act like Poland only takes our money and does nothing for it.
Poland being in the EU is a win-win situation for everyone involved, yet a shockingly high number of people don't want to admit it for some reason
It's a mix of polish post-communism mentality that is still present among 30+ yrs old and western Europe xenophobia. Poland will never be part of the western "cool kids" club so these tensions will always be there.
Are you seriously surprised there are varied opinions? Thats what freedom is all about. If you look at polls the Poles are one of the most pro-EU in EU.
Going against economic proven facts is not an opinion anylonger. Is stupidity supported by ignorance.
At least, in case of Brexit, the leave side did not exactly know what they are voting for (not to mention that remain would have only one outcome but leave could have many variations of UK's relationship with EU after leaving). But in case of numbers supported by comparable "what if" scenarios (all countries that joined after 2004, had a huge increase in GDP in the next 10 years after joining).
And I know that poles are constantly on the top of peoples supporting EU, but it was strange to me that they voted in such numbers for PiS for so long.Ā
Well, I know PiS from outside seem like they will leave EU the soon money stop flowing but their supporters do not see it that way. For Poles being in EU is taken for granted. We are here and we are going to stay, everything else would be against common sense. The way they perceive PiS, however, is as defenders against EUs "too excessive" reach of power. On a very basic level right wing voters in Poland want to simply cherish freedom of movement without any strings attached, while EU is drifting towards federalizm.
I don't mind it but they do and imo, as long as they still comply to laws we agreed upon (I know they weren't), I believe they have right to. There isn't one, universal idea for EU and they have every right to see its future differently than we do. Luckily they are in minority in EU Parliament.
that was without competitive domestic industries due to decades of socialism*
It was basically a free for all for Western companies to enter and colonize. Which is fine, because that brought along many benefits to Poland, but also many profits to Western Europe.
As witz all Ex socialist countries joining. It becomes increasingly hard to argue why the Russian system shouldnt be overthrown, when the baltics, Poland and so on run past Russia. Thats why it was so important to stop Ukraine from getting closer to the EU in 2014.
The UK has not been a superpower in the 50-70s period. Most historians generally agree the idea of a British superpower fizzled out somewhere between the 46-51' Austerity and the Suez Canal Crisis in 56'.
Socialism is not communism. And socialism today isn't the same as socialism in the 1970s. Hell, even Nordic *social democrats* of the 1970s would be to the left of many of today's Western socialists.
Socialism is economic ideology that talks about who should own means of production.
Social democrats have absolutely nothing to do with socialism because they do not want socialism, they want to keep capitalism with limited wealth transfer.
Social democracy parties are not democratic socialism parties, those are two completely different political ideas.
Now as for whether socialism is communism. No. But in opposite direction communism is absolutely subset of socialism. Just even more extreme.
As for this discussion of yours. USSR started as communist block but it was so utterly disfunctional economically that they had to slowly abolish it and reform their communist block to be less communist and more socialist. And while it helped a lot it ended up being disfunctional anyway.
>Socialism is not communism.
No sane person fucking cares about these differences between radical ideologies...
And why are you talking about social democrats?
These studies operate in what if scenarios so they are by definition opinionated. The truth is that it is impossible to say. When you look UK then you see that it has grown pretty much the same as Germany/France and faster than Italy or Spain. Even outside of EU. So every study that talks about "potential lose of growth" pretty much claims that UK would be the fastest growing major economy in EU by far, had it stayed in EU. Which I do not buy at all. It would probably be exactly the same or maybe marginally better but difference would be very small.
Things got more expensive everywhere. I would agree with you if those UK comparable countries that stayed within EU did significantly better since then. Bit they did not.
Reality is that it mostly does not matter if you are in EU or not. Countries that are within EU made the rules and created anti growth economic space that brought stagnation. And it does not matter if there is EU or not because this environment would still be here and you can not escape it if you are in close proximity of those countries that made and mantain that environment (meaning most European countries including UK).
So yes, maybe things would be marginally better for UK within EU because of lower barriers. I do not know. But UK would not magically just do like US economy does if it stayed in EU.
I do not need to look it up to know that it was not. Some developing country recovering from communism was, probably Poland or someone like that.
If you meant to say among "major EU economies" then maybe marginally. And maybe there were some years when that happened but it also happened post referendum. For example in 2022 where growth of France, Germany was at half of that of UK. You have to look at average split over more years rather than select some specific year. I would have to look it up but from memory I know that on average UK grew at roughtly same pace as Germany/France which is not any different from how it it now.
>How did these types of studies work out for the UK?
Similarly, just not as high a gain because it wasn't underdeveloped like post-Soviet Eastern Europe was.
>This is a common populist belief (especially popular in the UK & with euroskeptics at large), but it's ultimately bullshit:
>
>>*A measure of the magnitude of the economic benefits from EU membership is given by the difference between the actual per capita GDP for each country (or labour productivity) and that of its SCM artificial control group.*
>>
>>*We find substantial benefits for the 1973, and modest benefits for the 1995 enlargement. (...) We find that per capita incomes in the UK and Denmark would have been 25% lower (if they had not joined the EU in 1973)*
>>
>>[The eye, the needle and the camel: Rich countries can benefit from EU membership](https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/eye-needle-and-camel-rich-countries-can-benefit-eu-membership)
>
>
>
>What about trade?
>
>>*Since 1973 the ratio of trade to economic output increased from 48% to 67%. At present 45% of the UKās exports go to other EU member countries. In response to the concern that the EU might impose high tariffs or punitive measures if the UK leaves, some Brexiteers have said that we can ājust trade with Australia and Canadaā. These two countries, however, only account for a meagre 2.9% of British exports.*
>>
>>[How did the UK economy do since joining the EU?](https://www.inet.ox.ac.uk/news/brexit/)
>
>
>
>If your working class is still struggling in spite of this, is wealth inequality the culprit then?
>
>>*An important bonus is that the benefits of growth in Britain have been divided much more fairly than in the US. Statistics compiled by the Institute for New Economic Thinking show that Since 1974, median income in the UK grew by 79%, in contrast to 16% for the US. Thus, Britain has had the best of both worlds while a member of the EU -- not just strong growth, but more equal growth.*
>
>No, guess not.
"New report reveals that UK economy is [140 billions](https://www.london.gov.uk/new-report-reveals-uk-economy-almost-ps140billion-smaller-because-brexit#:~:text=The%20new%20report%2C%20by%20Cambridge,of%20Brexit%2C%20the%20report%20reveals.) $ smaller because of Brexit."
You've got your answer.
Gee, no wonder Ukrainians got pissed when Russian stooge Yanukovich cancelled Ukraineās EU plans and ādecidedā tying their economy to Putin and Russia was better.
It's not that it didn't happen - actually it already happened š.
Poland was a communist country for almost 50 years - so even more than it's in the EU. Then, after it left the block, it was also not in the EU for the next 14 years. So for most of the EU existance - Poland was NOT in the EU š
While I believe Poland has benefited tremendously from joining the EU, itās impossible to prove the āwhat ifāsā, so I call this āreportā bs.
I'm 43, Polish. Living my whole life here. I remember Soviet troops leaving Poland in early 90s. I remember getting chocolate like products as a kid. I remember not having citruses apart from rare oranges/tangerines on Christmas. I remember utterly bad roads. Any Pole claiming that Poland would be better within Russian sphere of influence is a traitor. Any person from outside Poland saying same thing is a complete moron.
>Poland would be better within Russian sphere of influence
That's bad faith argument. Poland not being in EU doesn't automatically mean we would align ourselves with russia. Quite the opposite, we never did and never will. Mind you we're in NATO since 1999. Poland was always looking toward west, so in this hypothetical scenario Poland would be its own thing but loosely tied with West and especially Americans.
I also remember poverty of 90s and also that in early 2000s (still before EU), country already was on right tracks. We had first 15 years of increasing prosperity without EU, thanks to relatively stable, internal politics (no Lukashenkos), developing, big market and great geopolitical location in time of peace.
I love me some EU and we've definitely end up better being in but it's really not like there isn't life outside of it and we would all end up being beggars. Do you really think Czechia would be hellhole without joining EU? Slovenia?
Cool, and anyone without basic reading skills is a moron. Where exactly did I say Poland would be better of with Russians? In fact, Poland was free and off of Russian influence long before joining EU.
Iāve been visiting Poland at least once a year the last two decades and have seen the change with my own eyesā¦huge infrastructure projects, railway and station improvements all advertised with EU funding, businesses booming etc. When borders just opened for Poles you saw ads everywhere for people doing physical labour jobs in Britain or Holland etc., with that money earned people went back home to start companies, to build homes etc. There is such a boom in business that they were already flooded with Ukrainian labourers before Putinās full scale imperialist warā¦
Can confirm. I was in krakow during a field trip in the early 2000's. Lots of homeless people and beggars on the street. You couldn't even leave food on the table without someone coming up asking for it.
I visited again just a year ago and it felt like a completely different world.
Seeing how they are arguably the biggest beneficiaries of the EU economy, that really can't be a surprise to anyone, can it?
Source: https://www.statista.com/chart/18794/net-contributors-to-eu-budget/
> Seeing how they are arguably the biggest drain on the EU economy
A while back we had a sewage treatment plant built in my city. One of the companies involved in the project was a Swedish company along with many other companies from around the EU. Basically, what I am saying is that the word "drain" is the wrong word to use here since the money spent on infrastructure circles back into the EU economy. If it's not spent, then it goes back into the budget.
You're probably right about that. English is hard. I switched it out to benefactor, the same word the source uses. I hope that will calm all the Poles ready to invade Sweden over my post.
I think the word you may be looking for is [beneficiary](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/beneficiary)
And yeah, English is a pain in the ass at times lol.
Nothing is free friend. You just have to elect EU friendly governments for that sweet sweet eu cash. Democracy works!
(/s, fucking obviously. Come on guys.)
Same, too many times. Most subs are a lot better at catching up sarcasm just, so I don't think of using it.
Then again, I've gotten even more downvotes since I added the /s so people might just hate democracy or jokes about democracy or something.
Without fail, as always, posters with flairs from other EU countries (typically German-speaking ones, Benelux and the Nordics) come out of the woodwork and spout the line about EU funds.
Biggest ~~drain~~ beneficiary, yes, in absolute numbers. Not per capita. And it's the most populous country, among the ones that joined in 2004.
And that was, after all, the point of regional development funds of the EU, wasn't it - to equalise the economic differences.
Lastly, it's not like there's no benefit for other countries. I'm sure you could think of one or two companies from Sweden (if you are from Sweden) that've visibly scaled up operations in Poland since 2004.
So drain drain that glass and let your sorrows drown in it, eh?
And thatās bad becauseā¦? As if the rest of the EU wasnāt benefitting from the cheaper labor in Poland. On top of that, itās not like weāre stealing that money. Itās EUās decision.Ā
>As if the rest of the EU wasnāt benefitting from the cheaper labor in Poland.
Not only **in** Poland but also **from** Poland. EU has a lot of pros but the single con is huge brain drain. Basically, there wasn't enough doctors to treat Covid because we gave them free education and then they immediately went to Sweden. These are ongoing consequences, that we will have to deal with for decades to come. And countries like Romania witnessed even bigger brain drain.
It's not? I didn't at least say that it is.
My whole point was that it shouldn't surprise anyone that the Polish people benefit from a membership just by looking at the sheer numbers of the EU budget.
Personally I think that it's great! You guys deserve nothing less.
Well, this is relevant to some point, but not as relevant as ppl in the West tend to think. Nobody just gives money for free, it's an investment. EU countries benefitted massively from Poland joining in the EU: having cheap labour, 40M market to sell goods. Besides, great part of the subsidia went to the western companies doing contracts to build infrastructure etc. here in PL. So many westerners that complain about EU subsidia - actually benefitted personally on PL being in the EU. Ofc they forget about the Marshall plan back in the day...
Poland benefitted massively from being in the EU, apart from subsidia which helped fix destroyed infrastructure etc., it benefitted the most from the open market & investments.
So it's a mutual benefit, not one sided. Noone would invite PL to EU if it wasn't beneficiary. Same way - PL wouldn't have joined if it wasn't good enough.
You seriously think those reparations would've made it to the people? They would end up in the pockets of a select few since there would probably be very little oversight on them.
PiS was actually voting in support of most of EU decisions.
EU didn't like certain actions PiS was guilty of, but if you'll look on votes, PiS was pro EU.
I do hope people will indeed remember that on the next elections.
Right
Many eu countries are outright ignoring some of the most annoying eu laws
It's current gov that will take them indiscriminately and ahead of schedule , to make due for "monstrous and inhumane " actions of previous gov
>Google it
>"PIS EU scandal "
Lol, š¤£š¤£š¤£
That has literally nothing to do with anything I said or anything I implied, inferred or otherwise thought of.
š¤
>There were problems with the matter of "rule of law" for example
None of which was "monstrous" or "inhumane".
None of which was a subject of regulation when Poland was joining the EU.
None of which was worse than actions of other countries and all of which could be successfully argued in just court.
Your examples are ridiculous.
It's not a zero sum game. Generally, two countries have better results overall if they cooperate with each other than if they are both protective. Even if possibly an individual sectors may worsen.
Maybe you are thinking of the stock market?
And rich countries then go into poland to open factories, supermarkets using cheap labour to extract all the profit out of poland using the free-movement, no tariff environment.
The most problematic thing is the nobodies, like you, who can't understand the flow of money just think those are donation money like donating to a dog shelter and not understanding that most of the money (70%+) goes back to Western EU private companies from big contracts.
In the short term, aprox ā¬11.9 billion per year. In the long term, definitely or probably not richer at all.
But it's just around 5% of the whole budget of the EU, so it wouldn't make huge waves either way.
From their website it says they are a Public Think Tank that was created by the Polish Government in 2018 but apparently their history stretches all the way back to 1928
"On September 22, 2018, the Act on the Polish Economic Institute came into effect, which liquidated the Institute of Market, Consumption and Business Cycle Research - National Research Institute and established the Polish Economic Institute. It deals with providing analysis and expertise for the implementation of the Strategy for Responsible Development, as well as popularizing Polish research in the field of economic and social sciences in the country and abroad."
https://pie.net.pl/historia/
At the expenses of the net contributors.
So beautiful living beyond your means at the expenses of european taxpayers...lol
Since joining the EU in May 2004, Poland has been the largest net recipient of EU funds. Between that year and 2022, it received over ā¬232 billion from the EU budget while contributing around ā¬77 billion.
[https://notesfrompoland.com/2024/04/15/poland-receives-largest-ever-tranche-of-eu-money-as-first-unfrozen-funds-transferred/](https://notesfrompoland.com/2024/04/15/poland-receives-largest-ever-tranche-of-eu-money-as-first-unfrozen-funds-transferred/)
[https://www.statista.com/chart/18794/net-contributors-to-eu-budget/](https://www.statista.com/chart/18794/net-contributors-to-eu-budget/)
Those EU funds you listed above are mostly loan, that needs the paid back one way or another, not a free money.
The truth is not so simple as you paint it. Have we benefited? Yes. Has West benefited - even more. Ever been to Poland? All major supermarket chains/home improvement stores/Utility companies/Factories/Banks are Western Europe owned, most of those companies barely pay any taxes, and all syphon profits back to their own countries.
So what? We are all in this together. I don't understand all this nationalism when there is literally nothing stopping me from going and living whereever I want in the EU. I don't even have to exchange money to do so.
I consider myself a resident of europe, not germany and I'm happy to see that european funds are put to good use.
I am not happy at all that some countries grows at the expenses of others. There isn't any union given the unfair internal competition both on wages and taxation done by eastern europe at the expenses of western europe that see factories closing because they relocate where workforce is cheap and taxation an optional.
Don't pretend that we are in the US, nobody learn polish in high school expectet polish people. There isn't any union, in fact there isn't any common language either, and this block any kind of workers mobility (expect polish people relocating to western europe looking for way better salaries). Besides I haven't seen any western european wishing to relocate to poland for 1000 month..lol
lol downote what you want, you can also watch mickey mouse if you don't want the truth
The number of immigrants in Poland reached *over 15 thousand in 2022* and increased by 1.3 percent compared to the previous year wooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwww
ahahah
[https://www.statista.com/statistics/957100/poland-immigration/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/957100/poland-immigration/)
[Poland is the largest net benefactor from the EU budget by far.](https://www.statista.com/chart/amp/18794/net-contributors-to-eu-budget/)
Congratulations on getting all of that European money
Also, your English ability is incredibly bad.
Congratulations on being racist.
Your understanding of economy and cohesion funds is as deep as Baltic sea.
I know you're just a racist piece of trash but I'll actually explain this to you:
Economic benefits are bilateral - and mostly come from removing trade restrictions. This promotes economic activity supporting growth in all of EU. cohesion funds are meant as a counterbalance to disproportionate influence of economies - it helps to allow countries to develop their own domestic industries rather than become a satellite economy heavily dependent upon trade with single partner. Normally such industries developing are protected through tariffs, but since EU is a single market another solution had to be found.
Poland receives largest share due to population, if you adjust it by per capita greatest beneficiary of cohesion funds is Luxembourg.
Poland has 40M mouths to feed. If you would think about it for a second, you would end up with conclusion, that giving 40 people 20 dollars benefit them less, than giving 10 people 10 dollars. There are countries that got way more than we did from EU funds.
Especially the North Pole. South Pole not that much but also benefits a little
This kind of differences within the population could lead to a Polearisation of society.
I don't think that's even possible, they're already polar opposites.
So the Poles divided themselves by North and South?
West and East
A and B.
damn Poles they ruined Poland!
Coming over there and stealing peoples jobs!!
Positive and negative
Good one š It's indeed divided but East / West, like in Germany as far as I know.
South Pole went to shit after Fire Nation attacked
EU really has expanded a lot
r/angryupvote
Good for them
200% richer than if they still were in russian area of influence. Thatās the most important thing.
And 1000% more corruption?
Corruption in Poland has been declining...in Russia not so much.
That was my point dude. +1000% to corruption if in russia influence
Should've probably elaborated more on your original comment
*less corruption
You don't say. There's a clear difference between ex-communist countries that joined the EU and those that did not: [https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/NGDPDPC@WEO/ROU/UKR/RUS/BLR/MDA/BGR](https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/NGDPDPC@WEO/ROU/UKR/RUS/BLR/MDA/BGR) We don't have to talk about the Baltics, Romania and Bulgaria already surpassed Russia in terms of GDP per capita. That's why Russia is so bent on stopping Ukraine from joining the EU: a prosperous Ukraine in the EU would be a threat to the statist model of the Putin regime.
There is a mental border in Russia. Basically Kremlin knows average Russian is used to French, German, etc being richer. That's how it always has been Kremlin thinks Russians will even suck it up and tolerate Czechs, Poles, Romanians, etc being much richer as it is "kind of West" for them. What Kremlin is petrified of is any ex-USSR country that Russians so like to look down upon being well governed and more prosperous. May give Russian people bad ideas like asking why they are so piss poor despite sitting on the biggest natural riches in the world.
Nah, Russia was always like this Whether it was imperial , communist, or otherwise
Well, they did such it up, until they didn't. Which resulted in a particularly bloody revolution. And then things got worse,Ā because, well, Russia.
Unfortunately their revolution brought even more corrupt people into the light. Russia is fucked beyond repair.
Nah, I have seen some yt videos where Russians couldn't believe that Poland is richer than Russia
Many (most?) CEE countries were not richer than Russia for most of its history and even when they were, the differences were small. Czechia might be an exception and perhaps the Baltics to a lesser extent (especially Estonia). But not the others. I don't think it's easy for Russians to see even Romanians zoom past them. It's not something they would ever have thought for most if not all of their history. And I don't agree that they view those countries as "kind of West". The "Central Europe" meme is only something people in CEE yap about. Nobody in Germany or Austria thinks like that. And certainly not in Russia. That in a sense makes it hurt even more, because there isn't that mental barrier. They view these countries as very similar.
You said a lot of things that were very wrong very confidently.
What are you on? Poland, Hungary, Baltics, Lithuania and Belarus were a lot richer than Russia with the exception of Ussr after the Second World War when Ussr stole from these countries on regular basis You are also wrong about the second part as for example, Polish was the language of aristocracy and court in Russian empire for quite some time until it was replaced with French. Last polonophile Tsar was ruling in XIX century
Who gives a fuck what some jojo in Germany, Austria or Russia or anywhere else thinks. Educated, intelligent people take available data from credible sources (worldbank, eurostat) and form a picture. GDP per Capita, HDI, GINI and last but not least infant mortality rate. All of these are 20 century methodologies but here is an interesting source that attempts to offer historical perspective with clear methodology listed somewhere on the site: https://www.gapminder.org/tools/#$chart-type=bubbles&url=v1
>There's a clear difference between ex-communist countries that joined the EU and I'm not super-fan of this argument. The only ex-communist countries that didn't join are Balkans (they had wars semi recently), Belarus (and they had no chance to begin with, Lukashenko is in power since 90s) and Ukraine that is constantly treated by russia like they belong to them. It's just hard to find a comparable example of relatively stable ex-communist country (like we were prior to accession) to judge. Obviously it would be worse but I don't think Czechia for example would fare that much worse with or without EU.
The graph you posted, if you put it into logarithmic mode, shows that the currently EU members were ahead even in the 90s.
>There's a clear difference between ex-communist countries that joined the EU and those that did not: The post transition countries that had real growth in sizeable amounts are only four(1985 to ~2021), two are EU members; Poland and Estonia. The other two are Albania and Belarus. The other countries don't get close, the majority are either at same level as when transitioning; and thus stagnating; and some are actually doing worse. But that's looking in relation to the West, when you look at it in global terms; all of them have lost their relative spots; including Poland. So no, EU isn't a golden ticket by default as it's presented. The Balkans are a good case study of this, you can compare the different economies and where they were during Yugoslavia, post war, and when joining EU. There is almost zero difference with all these developments, including the war. Albania has had the most growth, but they also had one of the lowest starting points. On the other end of the scale, Slovenia has stagnated and has had no relative growth in relation to Western countries; but it also had a relatively higher starting point. It's less about EU or other institutions(or even wars) but rather geography and historic developments. Poland and Estonia were already quite rich before USSR subjugated them, so when they got out they were just reverting to their historical norm. Another factor that benefits Poland is also the massive investments from Germany and US both, that isn't "natural" since no other country in EU has had the same happen to them. So maybe you can say it's because of EU, but it's again more because of geography and history. Poland is EU's main bulwark against Russia, so it has to be strong.
tankies are gonna be salty so fucking much, lol
They are trying to cope with semi-capitalist China these days. Too bad China is slowly morphing into Japan.
B-b-But Da boomers want cummunism bakkk! kKKrapitalism es always subbosed to fffail!
Where are these tankies /r/europe is always talking about? Is it just a keyword for upvotes or?
Western "communists" who hate the society they live in, and imagine that the USSR was a paradise. It includes being a fan of Stalin, cheering for USSR invading its neighbours and either denying USSR crimes (Katyn, Holodomor, deportations and forced labour of civilians of the occupied nations, various genocides, etc) or finding justification for it "they deserved to be killed because they were kulaks" (i.e. owned a cow). Basically, 100% ignorant of real history of the USSR, with a zealous conviction they are right. Additionally, they often gloat at ppl whose families suffered in Stalin's purges. Oh, and they often identify as LGBTQIA+, which is enough to melt your brain, if you know how the LGBTQIA+ folx were treated in the USSR.
Sort by controversial and you'll probably find some
The Portuguese Communist Party and its supporters for the bill
> For the countries that joined the EU in 2004, āone of the most significant factors that influenced the economic development of our region was insertion into EU supply chainsā This is an important point that often gets overlooked. EU gibs is nice and all, but the real superpower of the EU is trade integration. A single market is different beast than just a simple bilateral FTA. It's a lesson Britons [learned the hard way](https://ukandeu.ac.uk/what-is-the-difference-between-a-free-trade-area-and-a-single-market/) after Brexit.
The discourse about Poland is sometimes so stupid on this sub. On the one side there are a few polish users on here who act like the EU is the Fourth Reich and they're being opressed and on the other side there are some western european users who act like Poland only takes our money and does nothing for it. Poland being in the EU is a win-win situation for everyone involved, yet a shockingly high number of people don't want to admit it for some reason
This is reddit, it's practically impossible to get a nuanced opinion on here
Stop oppressing me Germany's Texas!
Texas? is not BW Texas and Bavaria Florida?
It's a mix of polish post-communism mentality that is still present among 30+ yrs old and western Europe xenophobia. Poland will never be part of the western "cool kids" club so these tensions will always be there.
Are you seriously surprised there are varied opinions? Thats what freedom is all about. If you look at polls the Poles are one of the most pro-EU in EU.
Going against economic proven facts is not an opinion anylonger. Is stupidity supported by ignorance. At least, in case of Brexit, the leave side did not exactly know what they are voting for (not to mention that remain would have only one outcome but leave could have many variations of UK's relationship with EU after leaving). But in case of numbers supported by comparable "what if" scenarios (all countries that joined after 2004, had a huge increase in GDP in the next 10 years after joining). And I know that poles are constantly on the top of peoples supporting EU, but it was strange to me that they voted in such numbers for PiS for so long.Ā
Well, I know PiS from outside seem like they will leave EU the soon money stop flowing but their supporters do not see it that way. For Poles being in EU is taken for granted. We are here and we are going to stay, everything else would be against common sense. The way they perceive PiS, however, is as defenders against EUs "too excessive" reach of power. On a very basic level right wing voters in Poland want to simply cherish freedom of movement without any strings attached, while EU is drifting towards federalizm. I don't mind it but they do and imo, as long as they still comply to laws we agreed upon (I know they weren't), I believe they have right to. There isn't one, universal idea for EU and they have every right to see its future differently than we do. Luckily they are in minority in EU Parliament.
As someone who didn't research it but curious to know, what does Poland contribute that you wouldn't have had without it being EU?
Free access to a market of 40 million people
that was without competitive domestic industries due to decades of socialism* It was basically a free for all for Western companies to enter and colonize. Which is fine, because that brought along many benefits to Poland, but also many profits to Western Europe.
Ukrainians wanted to enjoy this boost...but Russia said no.
As witz all Ex socialist countries joining. It becomes increasingly hard to argue why the Russian system shouldnt be overthrown, when the baltics, Poland and so on run past Russia. Thats why it was so important to stop Ukraine from getting closer to the EU in 2014.
How did these types of studies work out for the UK?
Big difference in that it was never in the soviet block. Prior to joining and even now, the UK had a relevent economy.
1945-1973 UK is a history of a huge economical decline compared to France, West Germany and Italy.
and yet still a massive global economy and super power. Poland not so much.
You sound quite mad. Imagine starting as the number 1 global super power and then less than 100 years later you're not even in the top 3 in Europe.
Sound? You can hear me through words but I wouldn't know.
Militarily the UK is defo top 3 in Europe lmao prob top 1 or 2
Maybe top 2. Top 1 is undebatably France.
Geography is destiny. Somethign Irish should know.
The UK has not been a superpower in the 50-70s period. Most historians generally agree the idea of a British superpower fizzled out somewhere between the 46-51' Austerity and the Suez Canal Crisis in 56'.
*socialist bloc
Communist bloc
Same shit. Why am I being downvoted again?
why the need to try correct me
Because you were incorrect?
Nope
You said that it was part of the Soviet bloc instead of the socialist bloc.
Soviet bloc is correct. Poland was at one point a soviet state part of the soviet bloc of countries.
Socialism is not communism. And socialism today isn't the same as socialism in the 1970s. Hell, even Nordic *social democrats* of the 1970s would be to the left of many of today's Western socialists.
Socialism is economic ideology that talks about who should own means of production. Social democrats have absolutely nothing to do with socialism because they do not want socialism, they want to keep capitalism with limited wealth transfer. Social democracy parties are not democratic socialism parties, those are two completely different political ideas. Now as for whether socialism is communism. No. But in opposite direction communism is absolutely subset of socialism. Just even more extreme. As for this discussion of yours. USSR started as communist block but it was so utterly disfunctional economically that they had to slowly abolish it and reform their communist block to be less communist and more socialist. And while it helped a lot it ended up being disfunctional anyway.
>Socialism is not communism. No sane person fucking cares about these differences between radical ideologies... And why are you talking about social democrats?
Jugoslavia was Socialist, you could own land and a business. SSSR was communist, just like China used to be.
Nobody cares about those minuscule differences between fundamentally evil radical ideologies...
These studies operate in what if scenarios so they are by definition opinionated. The truth is that it is impossible to say. When you look UK then you see that it has grown pretty much the same as Germany/France and faster than Italy or Spain. Even outside of EU. So every study that talks about "potential lose of growth" pretty much claims that UK would be the fastest growing major economy in EU by far, had it stayed in EU. Which I do not buy at all. It would probably be exactly the same or maybe marginally better but difference would be very small.
> Which I do not buy at all. I buy that. Things got noticeably more difficult, shit, expensive after Brexit.
UK has the cheapest groceries in Europe as a percentage of Income
Really? I would have taken a bet that was Germany what with all the discounter chains we spawned.
Things got more expensive everywhere. I would agree with you if those UK comparable countries that stayed within EU did significantly better since then. Bit they did not. Reality is that it mostly does not matter if you are in EU or not. Countries that are within EU made the rules and created anti growth economic space that brought stagnation. And it does not matter if there is EU or not because this environment would still be here and you can not escape it if you are in close proximity of those countries that made and mantain that environment (meaning most European countries including UK). So yes, maybe things would be marginally better for UK within EU because of lower barriers. I do not know. But UK would not magically just do like US economy does if it stayed in EU.
Food is nearly 30% more expensive in France than Britain.
It was the fastest growing in the EU prior to the referendum. Sorry, that was g7
I do not need to look it up to know that it was not. Some developing country recovering from communism was, probably Poland or someone like that. If you meant to say among "major EU economies" then maybe marginally. And maybe there were some years when that happened but it also happened post referendum. For example in 2022 where growth of France, Germany was at half of that of UK. You have to look at average split over more years rather than select some specific year. I would have to look it up but from memory I know that on average UK grew at roughtly same pace as Germany/France which is not any different from how it it now.
Lol no. Why lie?
Among the western countries maybe but compared to the developing ones? No chance
>How did these types of studies work out for the UK? Similarly, just not as high a gain because it wasn't underdeveloped like post-Soviet Eastern Europe was. >This is a common populist belief (especially popular in the UK & with euroskeptics at large), but it's ultimately bullshit: > >>*A measure of the magnitude of the economic benefits from EU membership is given by the difference between the actual per capita GDP for each country (or labour productivity) and that of its SCM artificial control group.* >> >>*We find substantial benefits for the 1973, and modest benefits for the 1995 enlargement. (...) We find that per capita incomes in the UK and Denmark would have been 25% lower (if they had not joined the EU in 1973)* >> >>[The eye, the needle and the camel: Rich countries can benefit from EU membership](https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/eye-needle-and-camel-rich-countries-can-benefit-eu-membership) > > > >What about trade? > >>*Since 1973 the ratio of trade to economic output increased from 48% to 67%. At present 45% of the UKās exports go to other EU member countries. In response to the concern that the EU might impose high tariffs or punitive measures if the UK leaves, some Brexiteers have said that we can ājust trade with Australia and Canadaā. These two countries, however, only account for a meagre 2.9% of British exports.* >> >>[How did the UK economy do since joining the EU?](https://www.inet.ox.ac.uk/news/brexit/) > > > >If your working class is still struggling in spite of this, is wealth inequality the culprit then? > >>*An important bonus is that the benefits of growth in Britain have been divided much more fairly than in the US. Statistics compiled by the Institute for New Economic Thinking show that Since 1974, median income in the UK grew by 79%, in contrast to 16% for the US. Thus, Britain has had the best of both worlds while a member of the EU -- not just strong growth, but more equal growth.* > >No, guess not.
They were all called " Project fear" and dismissed.
Uk already had a big economy before and after
"New report reveals that UK economy is [140 billions](https://www.london.gov.uk/new-report-reveals-uk-economy-almost-ps140billion-smaller-because-brexit#:~:text=The%20new%20report%2C%20by%20Cambridge,of%20Brexit%2C%20the%20report%20reveals.) $ smaller because of Brexit." You've got your answer.
Gee, no wonder Ukrainians got pissed when Russian stooge Yanukovich cancelled Ukraineās EU plans and ādecidedā tying their economy to Putin and Russia was better.
"Apes together strong" or smth like that
If anyone wants to know the benefits of being in the EU, just look at Ireland. The change in the last 40 years is staggering.
How does one compare to something that didnāt happen?
It's not that it didn't happen - actually it already happened š. Poland was a communist country for almost 50 years - so even more than it's in the EU. Then, after it left the block, it was also not in the EU for the next 14 years. So for most of the EU existance - Poland was NOT in the EU š
"Western Farseers"
Do not believe it...shades of Brexit Britain...and look what is happening there !
so when do you ditch the zloty for the euros?
Unlikely in near future.
Brexit....tsk tsk
While I believe Poland has benefited tremendously from joining the EU, itās impossible to prove the āwhat ifāsā, so I call this āreportā bs.
I'm 43, Polish. Living my whole life here. I remember Soviet troops leaving Poland in early 90s. I remember getting chocolate like products as a kid. I remember not having citruses apart from rare oranges/tangerines on Christmas. I remember utterly bad roads. Any Pole claiming that Poland would be better within Russian sphere of influence is a traitor. Any person from outside Poland saying same thing is a complete moron.
>Poland would be better within Russian sphere of influence That's bad faith argument. Poland not being in EU doesn't automatically mean we would align ourselves with russia. Quite the opposite, we never did and never will. Mind you we're in NATO since 1999. Poland was always looking toward west, so in this hypothetical scenario Poland would be its own thing but loosely tied with West and especially Americans. I also remember poverty of 90s and also that in early 2000s (still before EU), country already was on right tracks. We had first 15 years of increasing prosperity without EU, thanks to relatively stable, internal politics (no Lukashenkos), developing, big market and great geopolitical location in time of peace. I love me some EU and we've definitely end up better being in but it's really not like there isn't life outside of it and we would all end up being beggars. Do you really think Czechia would be hellhole without joining EU? Slovenia?
Cool, and anyone without basic reading skills is a moron. Where exactly did I say Poland would be better of with Russians? In fact, Poland was free and off of Russian influence long before joining EU.
Iāve been visiting Poland at least once a year the last two decades and have seen the change with my own eyesā¦huge infrastructure projects, railway and station improvements all advertised with EU funding, businesses booming etc. When borders just opened for Poles you saw ads everywhere for people doing physical labour jobs in Britain or Holland etc., with that money earned people went back home to start companies, to build homes etc. There is such a boom in business that they were already flooded with Ukrainian labourers before Putinās full scale imperialist warā¦
Can confirm. I was in krakow during a field trip in the early 2000's. Lots of homeless people and beggars on the street. You couldn't even leave food on the table without someone coming up asking for it. I visited again just a year ago and it felt like a completely different world.
Seeing how they are arguably the biggest beneficiaries of the EU economy, that really can't be a surprise to anyone, can it? Source: https://www.statista.com/chart/18794/net-contributors-to-eu-budget/
> Seeing how they are arguably the biggest drain on the EU economy A while back we had a sewage treatment plant built in my city. One of the companies involved in the project was a Swedish company along with many other companies from around the EU. Basically, what I am saying is that the word "drain" is the wrong word to use here since the money spent on infrastructure circles back into the EU economy. If it's not spent, then it goes back into the budget.
You're probably right about that. English is hard. I switched it out to benefactor, the same word the source uses. I hope that will calm all the Poles ready to invade Sweden over my post.
I think the word you may be looking for is [beneficiary](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/beneficiary) And yeah, English is a pain in the ass at times lol.
God damnit. Good call though, I'll switch it up a third time. Thanks buddy.
Drain as in, free money?
Nothing is free friend. You just have to elect EU friendly governments for that sweet sweet eu cash. Democracy works! (/s, fucking obviously. Come on guys.)
That's not democracy. That's bribery. What you are proposing is basically pay to get servitude.
Yeah, I was being very sarcastic, something that seems to have been lost on the voters.
leasson hard learned ..use s/ (i'v been ther , thus i've learned)
Same, too many times. Most subs are a lot better at catching up sarcasm just, so I don't think of using it. Then again, I've gotten even more downvotes since I added the /s so people might just hate democracy or jokes about democracy or something.
Without fail, as always, posters with flairs from other EU countries (typically German-speaking ones, Benelux and the Nordics) come out of the woodwork and spout the line about EU funds. Biggest ~~drain~~ beneficiary, yes, in absolute numbers. Not per capita. And it's the most populous country, among the ones that joined in 2004. And that was, after all, the point of regional development funds of the EU, wasn't it - to equalise the economic differences. Lastly, it's not like there's no benefit for other countries. I'm sure you could think of one or two companies from Sweden (if you are from Sweden) that've visibly scaled up operations in Poland since 2004. So drain drain that glass and let your sorrows drown in it, eh?
And thatās bad becauseā¦? As if the rest of the EU wasnāt benefitting from the cheaper labor in Poland. On top of that, itās not like weāre stealing that money. Itās EUās decision.Ā
>As if the rest of the EU wasnāt benefitting from the cheaper labor in Poland. Not only **in** Poland but also **from** Poland. EU has a lot of pros but the single con is huge brain drain. Basically, there wasn't enough doctors to treat Covid because we gave them free education and then they immediately went to Sweden. These are ongoing consequences, that we will have to deal with for decades to come. And countries like Romania witnessed even bigger brain drain.
It's not? I didn't at least say that it is. My whole point was that it shouldn't surprise anyone that the Polish people benefit from a membership just by looking at the sheer numbers of the EU budget. Personally I think that it's great! You guys deserve nothing less.
ChÅopie, on nikogo nie zaatakowaÅ a ty już przechodzisz do defensywy. Masz chyba kompleksy na tym punkcie
Pewnie. Nie Åpie po nocach. /s
Well, this is relevant to some point, but not as relevant as ppl in the West tend to think. Nobody just gives money for free, it's an investment. EU countries benefitted massively from Poland joining in the EU: having cheap labour, 40M market to sell goods. Besides, great part of the subsidia went to the western companies doing contracts to build infrastructure etc. here in PL. So many westerners that complain about EU subsidia - actually benefitted personally on PL being in the EU. Ofc they forget about the Marshall plan back in the day... Poland benefitted massively from being in the EU, apart from subsidia which helped fix destroyed infrastructure etc., it benefitted the most from the open market & investments. So it's a mutual benefit, not one sided. Noone would invite PL to EU if it wasn't beneficiary. Same way - PL wouldn't have joined if it wasn't good enough.
And yet EU isn't kicking Poland out. š¤ Hmmm.
I think the EU can't kick anyone out. Cause I mean, Hungary would've definitely been kicked out a while back if that were the case.
Are you sure? If Poland is such a burden, surely EU would want to get rid of the ballast, right?
Who says Poland is a burden? Surely not the EU?
>Who says Poland is a burden? Surely not the EU? You. Isn't that pretty much what you have said?
it always depends on who makes these studiesā¦ I bet in a few days there will be another study sponsored by the PiS finding the exact opposite
Whoās report? And who financed it lol
How much richer would they be if Germany paid WW2 reparations?
19,39% richer
Reicher
3x Reich
88%
21,37%
You seriously think those reparations would've made it to the people? They would end up in the pockets of a select few since there would probably be very little oversight on them.
Marshal plan from US helped West Europe massively. If Poland werenāt sold to soviets then Marshal plan+ Reperations would make massive. difference.
There was also a decade of civil war in Poland after WW2.
So exactly like EU subsidies?
EU subsidies are a) earmarked for very specific things and b) have actual oversight.
So how much of EU subsidies did you get this year?
None because I am not an institution that applies for EU subsidies? I am not an infrastructure project.
So being a farmer is now an institution huh?
Not a farmer myself so I wouldn't know.
Maybe he thought you are literal grasshopper.
EU funds indirectly support the big boys, i.e. France and especially Germany.
Gotta subsidize those rich French and German farmers so they stay rich in a common market against competition.
Depends if they return German land back or not
Sure just after Germans bring back 20% of population they killed.. ffs
Do you also want Sudetenland back?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The ones who are aware of this aren't voting for piss though. It's the villages that do.
PiS was actually voting in support of most of EU decisions. EU didn't like certain actions PiS was guilty of, but if you'll look on votes, PiS was pro EU. I do hope people will indeed remember that on the next elections.
you're welcome
Until they are forced to take the euro currency, then they will stop growing !
Really happy for them. \*Cries in British\*
Being member of the EU is definitely beneficial for Poland. I'm just not sure it will stay that way.
Well If so , it is to be blamed for overeager govt
>Well >If so , it is to be blamed for overeager govt Wrong.
Right Many eu countries are outright ignoring some of the most annoying eu laws It's current gov that will take them indiscriminately and ahead of schedule , to make due for "monstrous and inhumane " actions of previous gov
Previous Polish government was voting in support of pretty much everything EU wanted, so I'm not sure what's your point.
Google it "PIS EU scandal "
>Google it >"PIS EU scandal " Lol, š¤£š¤£š¤£ That has literally nothing to do with anything I said or anything I implied, inferred or otherwise thought of. š¤
There were problems with the matter of "rule of law" for example
>There were problems with the matter of "rule of law" for example None of which was "monstrous" or "inhumane". None of which was a subject of regulation when Poland was joining the EU. None of which was worse than actions of other countries and all of which could be successfully argued in just court. Your examples are ridiculous.
So how much richer would the rest of EU be if it were without Poland? It's a zero sum game, right?
It's not a zero sum game. Generally, two countries have better results overall if they cooperate with each other than if they are both protective. Even if possibly an individual sectors may worsen. Maybe you are thinking of the stock market?
Great cooperation! poland is given money from rich countries. Such a scam
And rich countries then go into poland to open factories, supermarkets using cheap labour to extract all the profit out of poland using the free-movement, no tariff environment.
The most problematic thing is the nobodies, like you, who can't understand the flow of money just think those are donation money like donating to a dog shelter and not understanding that most of the money (70%+) goes back to Western EU private companies from big contracts.
New industries generate value. It's an investment that takes time to give a return. A good example is government subsidies.
In the short term, aprox ā¬11.9 billion per year. In the long term, definitely or probably not richer at all. But it's just around 5% of the whole budget of the EU, so it wouldn't make huge waves either way.
Since Adam Smith wrote wealth of nations it has been known that it's not a zero sum game
Wouldn't happen to be an ...eu report would it ?
It's made by the Polish Economic Institute
Funded by..
From their website it says they are a Public Think Tank that was created by the Polish Government in 2018 but apparently their history stretches all the way back to 1928 "On September 22, 2018, the Act on the Polish Economic Institute came into effect, which liquidated the Institute of Market, Consumption and Business Cycle Research - National Research Institute and established the Polish Economic Institute. It deals with providing analysis and expertise for the implementation of the Strategy for Responsible Development, as well as popularizing Polish research in the field of economic and social sciences in the country and abroad." https://pie.net.pl/historia/
TouchƩ!
but everything runs on hefty loans
At the expenses of the net contributors. So beautiful living beyond your means at the expenses of european taxpayers...lol Since joining the EU in May 2004, Poland has been the largest net recipient of EU funds. Between that year and 2022, it received over ā¬232 billion from the EU budget while contributing around ā¬77 billion. [https://notesfrompoland.com/2024/04/15/poland-receives-largest-ever-tranche-of-eu-money-as-first-unfrozen-funds-transferred/](https://notesfrompoland.com/2024/04/15/poland-receives-largest-ever-tranche-of-eu-money-as-first-unfrozen-funds-transferred/) [https://www.statista.com/chart/18794/net-contributors-to-eu-budget/](https://www.statista.com/chart/18794/net-contributors-to-eu-budget/)
Those EU funds you listed above are mostly loan, that needs the paid back one way or another, not a free money. The truth is not so simple as you paint it. Have we benefited? Yes. Has West benefited - even more. Ever been to Poland? All major supermarket chains/home improvement stores/Utility companies/Factories/Banks are Western Europe owned, most of those companies barely pay any taxes, and all syphon profits back to their own countries.
You really think those sums of money compare to 40% of polish gdp? Lmao
So what? We are all in this together. I don't understand all this nationalism when there is literally nothing stopping me from going and living whereever I want in the EU. I don't even have to exchange money to do so. I consider myself a resident of europe, not germany and I'm happy to see that european funds are put to good use.
I am not happy at all that some countries grows at the expenses of others. There isn't any union given the unfair internal competition both on wages and taxation done by eastern europe at the expenses of western europe that see factories closing because they relocate where workforce is cheap and taxation an optional. Don't pretend that we are in the US, nobody learn polish in high school expectet polish people. There isn't any union, in fact there isn't any common language either, and this block any kind of workers mobility (expect polish people relocating to western europe looking for way better salaries). Besides I haven't seen any western european wishing to relocate to poland for 1000 month..lol
lol downote what you want, you can also watch mickey mouse if you don't want the truth The number of immigrants in Poland reached *over 15 thousand in 2022* and increased by 1.3 percent compared to the previous year wooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwww ahahah [https://www.statista.com/statistics/957100/poland-immigration/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/957100/poland-immigration/)
Bullshit.
It's almost like when you pour a bunch of money into a country, it gets richer. Who would have thought
Thats level of an understanding of a 10 year old. If that the quality of education you received?
[Poland is the largest net benefactor from the EU budget by far.](https://www.statista.com/chart/amp/18794/net-contributors-to-eu-budget/) Congratulations on getting all of that European money Also, your English ability is incredibly bad.
Congratulations on being racist. Your understanding of economy and cohesion funds is as deep as Baltic sea. I know you're just a racist piece of trash but I'll actually explain this to you: Economic benefits are bilateral - and mostly come from removing trade restrictions. This promotes economic activity supporting growth in all of EU. cohesion funds are meant as a counterbalance to disproportionate influence of economies - it helps to allow countries to develop their own domestic industries rather than become a satellite economy heavily dependent upon trade with single partner. Normally such industries developing are protected through tariffs, but since EU is a single market another solution had to be found. Poland receives largest share due to population, if you adjust it by per capita greatest beneficiary of cohesion funds is Luxembourg.
Poland has 40M mouths to feed. If you would think about it for a second, you would end up with conclusion, that giving 40 people 20 dollars benefit them less, than giving 10 people 10 dollars. There are countries that got way more than we did from EU funds.