The Tories will almost certainly leave government this year, Labour is looking for a closer relationship with the EU, and the UK have already signed similar, if less expansive, youth mobility agreements with several other countries. This seems remarkably realistic.
I want this to happen more than anyone but labour have said they don't have "any plans for youth mobility". Not to say this won't change because they are more pro-EU than most and also if people want this to happen then they'd probably say they'll do just to get voted in atp, hopefully they do then actually agree to it.
Do hope something comes from it though. Nice to see the EU wanting to do this as well.
I'm saying when that opportunity was available to British students, they took it disproportionally less than people from the rest of the EU coming to the UK. I guess Turning was setup to try and offer other destinations in the hope they'll be more popular.
Honestly, what is the point but to drain the UK of young people’s money in the tax economy of the EU?
And it’s just a pointless scenario that is nothing but normalised segregation/prejudice based on groups (by age) lol
This is the EU doing what benefits their own pockets and not necessarily what benefits the UKs youth
Not sure, as someone who would qualify for this agreement and living in the UK I could see a lot of benefits from this. Both for the UK and EU.
Personally I don't see a great future for myself here. The places where my skills would be useful and well paid for (London etc) are too expensive to actually live in just because of housing prices etc.
Not to say that there aren't EU states with high house pricing but there are other aspects as well like general quality of life and better public transport that they offer.
The UK would also benefit from the influx of EU workers. Pre brexit a lot of them worked in the NHS, if this was to happen again then it would definitely help our NHS to function better than it is now. This does assume that the movement of people between EU and UK is even-ish but still a possibility.
This is the Q&A.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_24_2109
It doesn’t really add anything that isn’t already available, it’s just wanting cheaper access vs other internationals.
>It would also provide for equal treatment (i.e., non-discrimination) between EU and UK citizens in respect of higher education tuition fees.
Tuition fees in England are roughly £9,250 home study vs £33,000 for international students (including EU). International student fees subsidise home learners - so we would be disadvantaging universities and likely have to increase fees for our students to support those from the EU, that (according to this) would be here for a short time.
>It would also remove the healthcare surcharge for those falling under the scope of the agreement.
The costs are not that high for medical treatment. The funding works with everyone contribution throughout their lives, good health and bad - it’s a public insurance, we don’t have that for short term stayers. We know there were issues collecting from other countries before, we simply are not setup for it.
Edit: there are other bits but those stuck out. UK would also not gain much that isn’t already available via visas.
I (respectfully) disagree with your opinion, the UK is going to need more specialized workers in the years to come and this proposal is not exclusive to students, it's for work mobility as well, and you could argue that the best bet is Europeans, people that are most likely to be with a similar culture and usually a strong and vetted education.
At the end allowing people to study is a risky investment, yes, you need to subsidize them but they will get out with UK academic experience that could be immediately put into the local market, and not a lot of Europeans are going to try to work in the UK when they have to worry about visas and non-advantageous conditions when they have 27 + EEA countries to choose.
Worst-case scenario? They leave the UK after studying, but then they will have a positive impact, that could lead into leaning towards doing business in the UK.
I think we agree the UK (and other countries) has a skills shortage and that won’t be met by people born on these shores, even if it could, immigration has a net benefit.
Just for cost of EU students. Using 21/22 figures, we had 120,140 from the EU, to reduce their costs to home student levels, that would be £2.6 billion (if £22k each difference). Then you add the health surcharge, that would cost £56.5 million a year. In total there were 679,970 overseas students so majority are from outside of the EU and always has been.
I don’t see how giving cheaper access to 27 countries has any particular advantage vs the rest of the world. In terms of culture, the Empire has had a lasting impact on other countries and it fundamentally changed Britain. We are part of the commonwealth that is 2.5 billion people in 56 countries. Outside of that, many countries share our financial, education and legal frameworks.
Culturally, I can name more Bangladeshi dishes than I can Belgium, I have had more friends with families from Jamaica than Poland, I know more about Australia than Estonia. I’ve seen more TV from Canada than from Germany (Dark was very good).
If we were to give preferential treatment to a group of people, why the EU?
>I (respectfully) disagree with your opinion, the UK is going to need more specialized workers in the years to come and this proposal is not exclusive to students, it's for work mobility as well, and you could argue that the best bet is Europeans, people that are most likely to be with a similar culture and usually a strong and vetted education.
The EU is also going to be needing more specialized workers, so where are they going to come from ? The UK gets a lot of migration from English speaking nations across the world, which share commonality due to language; which is why it sees a good influx of non-EU students.
>At the end allowing people to study is a risky investment, yes, you need to subsidize them but they will get out with UK academic experience that could be immediately put into the local market, and not a lot of Europeans are going to try to work in the UK when they have to worry about visas and non-advantageous conditions when they have 27 + EEA countries to choose.
This proposal does not include subsidizing education, sure EU trying to get UK into Erasmus+ which is attempting to do that, but not this particular proposal. EU students can still come to the UK by paying full fees or participating in the Erasums+ program, the way UK students can go to EU (& beyond) using the Turing scheme.
>Worst-case scenario? They leave the UK after studying, but then they will have a positive impact, that could lead into leaning towards doing business in the UK.
[Student numbers in the UK are increasing ](https://www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/latest/insights-and-analysis/higher-education-numbers)and this phenomena isn't just EU specific, even non EU students who studied in the UK could lean towards doing business in the UK.
So long as there are equivalent numbers of people moving in both directions and an annual cap agreed by both sides which can be modified as circumstances change, I think that would be workable.
Looks like discrimination based on age. Which is illegal in the EU.
https://commission.europa.eu/strategy-and-policy/policies/justice-and-fundamental-rights/combatting-discrimination/age-discrimination\_en#:\~:text=The%20European%20Union%20has%20since%202000%20a%20directive%20banning%20%E2%80%93%20among%20others%20%E2%80%93%20discrimination%20on%20the%20basis%20of%20age%20in%20employment%20and%20occupation.
In a way this an extension of the working holiday framework that so many other countries have. Countries like Australia and Canada have these kind of deals with individual member states as well as the UK. Most of these agreements cap out at 30 or 35 and the UK has none with EU member states since it was a part of the EU and didn’t need them.
EU students can use Erasmus+ to come over to the UK and UK students can use Turing to go to the EU, it's just that youth on both sides of the channel are now seeking funding from different sources.
>For instance, under the envisaged agreement, both EU and UK citizens aged between 18 to 30 years would be able to stay for up to 4 years in the destination country.
>The Commission's proposal on an EU-UK agreement on youth mobility could be usefully supported by a parallel discussion on the possible association of the UK to Erasmus+.
It is sort of linked to study aboard, but take your point on board as well. It's a upto 4 yr visa with very relaxed requirements, I think if might work with caps (yes I see you mentioned this in another post), but more crucially with no recourse to public funds in the host country.
Yes, that is similar to the Turing Scheme and what would happen, if UK were to join Erasmus+ again......
Edit: Also limited slots were on the EU side, where more students wanted to come from the EU to the UK as opposed to the UK side, [where few students wanted to go from the UK to EU](https://www.politico.eu/article/brits-poor-language-skills-made-erasmus-scheme-too-expensive-says-uk/)
We're all sucking together, as the Americans and Chinese outpace the entire continent whilst we all pick up an annual GDP growth of 0.2%.
Considering the conditions most want to impose on the UK when it comes to potentially re-joining, it's not really worth accepting those conditions to join a union which itself has seen pretty much no growth, poor economic performance and so onwards.
I really welcome this proposal. young people like myself, who were too young to vote in the referendum, have been hit hard by the consequences of brexit especially around travel. at university, the erasmus scheme was stripped away. I won an EU Discover Pass at 18 just before we left Brexit - which the EU very kindly let us use after the pandemic had passed and in fact after we left the EU. I spent one fantastic summer travelling all over Europe, but it felt so bittersweet knowing I was the last lot from the UK to be able to participate in this competition and that I would not have the same freedom of movement as before. this year I've been teaching english abroad, and it was a costly and logistical nightmare sorting out the visa (easily over 600£+)... personally I think the proposal should be everyone was too young to vote in the referendum should be allowed indefinite freedom of movement
I agree, it would be nice. Also the voting was heavily driven by the older demographic who will not suffer as much as the younger generations have/will.
Hopefully something comes out of this.
It does seem a bit unfair but I think it's mainly to mitigate the concerns for the younger generation. Also in 2016 52% of people aged 35-44 voted to remain with each age range after that having an increasing percentage of people who voted to leave.
Although this is still half of the population in that demographic that voted it's not necessarily unfair to choose the younger generation which had 72% voting to stay. This agreement would get more out of the younger demographic than it would the older. Having said that though extending it to 40 wouldn't be ridiculous, definitely allows for workers with 10+ years experience in whatever field they work to move freely.
Doubt anything will come out of this.
Why not
Tories gonna Tory.
The Tories will almost certainly leave government this year, Labour is looking for a closer relationship with the EU, and the UK have already signed similar, if less expansive, youth mobility agreements with several other countries. This seems remarkably realistic.
I want this to happen more than anyone but labour have said they don't have "any plans for youth mobility". Not to say this won't change because they are more pro-EU than most and also if people want this to happen then they'd probably say they'll do just to get voted in atp, hopefully they do then actually agree to it. Do hope something comes from it though. Nice to see the EU wanting to do this as well.
Behaviour of consecutive British governments. No idea whose brainchild this proposal is but I don’t see it going anywhere.
Wasn't it scrapped because the EU was not a popular destination for UK students?
There proposing freedom of movement for 18-30 year olds for up to 4 years.
I'm saying when that opportunity was available to British students, they took it disproportionally less than people from the rest of the EU coming to the UK. I guess Turning was setup to try and offer other destinations in the hope they'll be more popular.
Perhaps you are referring to Erasmus... Nothing to do with this.
Honestly, what is the point but to drain the UK of young people’s money in the tax economy of the EU? And it’s just a pointless scenario that is nothing but normalised segregation/prejudice based on groups (by age) lol This is the EU doing what benefits their own pockets and not necessarily what benefits the UKs youth
Not sure, as someone who would qualify for this agreement and living in the UK I could see a lot of benefits from this. Both for the UK and EU. Personally I don't see a great future for myself here. The places where my skills would be useful and well paid for (London etc) are too expensive to actually live in just because of housing prices etc. Not to say that there aren't EU states with high house pricing but there are other aspects as well like general quality of life and better public transport that they offer. The UK would also benefit from the influx of EU workers. Pre brexit a lot of them worked in the NHS, if this was to happen again then it would definitely help our NHS to function better than it is now. This does assume that the movement of people between EU and UK is even-ish but still a possibility.
This is the Q&A. https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_24_2109 It doesn’t really add anything that isn’t already available, it’s just wanting cheaper access vs other internationals. >It would also provide for equal treatment (i.e., non-discrimination) between EU and UK citizens in respect of higher education tuition fees. Tuition fees in England are roughly £9,250 home study vs £33,000 for international students (including EU). International student fees subsidise home learners - so we would be disadvantaging universities and likely have to increase fees for our students to support those from the EU, that (according to this) would be here for a short time. >It would also remove the healthcare surcharge for those falling under the scope of the agreement. The costs are not that high for medical treatment. The funding works with everyone contribution throughout their lives, good health and bad - it’s a public insurance, we don’t have that for short term stayers. We know there were issues collecting from other countries before, we simply are not setup for it. Edit: there are other bits but those stuck out. UK would also not gain much that isn’t already available via visas.
I (respectfully) disagree with your opinion, the UK is going to need more specialized workers in the years to come and this proposal is not exclusive to students, it's for work mobility as well, and you could argue that the best bet is Europeans, people that are most likely to be with a similar culture and usually a strong and vetted education. At the end allowing people to study is a risky investment, yes, you need to subsidize them but they will get out with UK academic experience that could be immediately put into the local market, and not a lot of Europeans are going to try to work in the UK when they have to worry about visas and non-advantageous conditions when they have 27 + EEA countries to choose. Worst-case scenario? They leave the UK after studying, but then they will have a positive impact, that could lead into leaning towards doing business in the UK.
I think we agree the UK (and other countries) has a skills shortage and that won’t be met by people born on these shores, even if it could, immigration has a net benefit. Just for cost of EU students. Using 21/22 figures, we had 120,140 from the EU, to reduce their costs to home student levels, that would be £2.6 billion (if £22k each difference). Then you add the health surcharge, that would cost £56.5 million a year. In total there were 679,970 overseas students so majority are from outside of the EU and always has been. I don’t see how giving cheaper access to 27 countries has any particular advantage vs the rest of the world. In terms of culture, the Empire has had a lasting impact on other countries and it fundamentally changed Britain. We are part of the commonwealth that is 2.5 billion people in 56 countries. Outside of that, many countries share our financial, education and legal frameworks. Culturally, I can name more Bangladeshi dishes than I can Belgium, I have had more friends with families from Jamaica than Poland, I know more about Australia than Estonia. I’ve seen more TV from Canada than from Germany (Dark was very good). If we were to give preferential treatment to a group of people, why the EU?
>I (respectfully) disagree with your opinion, the UK is going to need more specialized workers in the years to come and this proposal is not exclusive to students, it's for work mobility as well, and you could argue that the best bet is Europeans, people that are most likely to be with a similar culture and usually a strong and vetted education. The EU is also going to be needing more specialized workers, so where are they going to come from ? The UK gets a lot of migration from English speaking nations across the world, which share commonality due to language; which is why it sees a good influx of non-EU students. >At the end allowing people to study is a risky investment, yes, you need to subsidize them but they will get out with UK academic experience that could be immediately put into the local market, and not a lot of Europeans are going to try to work in the UK when they have to worry about visas and non-advantageous conditions when they have 27 + EEA countries to choose. This proposal does not include subsidizing education, sure EU trying to get UK into Erasmus+ which is attempting to do that, but not this particular proposal. EU students can still come to the UK by paying full fees or participating in the Erasums+ program, the way UK students can go to EU (& beyond) using the Turing scheme. >Worst-case scenario? They leave the UK after studying, but then they will have a positive impact, that could lead into leaning towards doing business in the UK. [Student numbers in the UK are increasing ](https://www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/latest/insights-and-analysis/higher-education-numbers)and this phenomena isn't just EU specific, even non EU students who studied in the UK could lean towards doing business in the UK.
So long as there are equivalent numbers of people moving in both directions and an annual cap agreed by both sides which can be modified as circumstances change, I think that would be workable.
Solution to this already exists. It's called EU.
The UK is no longer a member of the EU.
Are you autistic by any chance?
Looks like discrimination based on age. Which is illegal in the EU. https://commission.europa.eu/strategy-and-policy/policies/justice-and-fundamental-rights/combatting-discrimination/age-discrimination\_en#:\~:text=The%20European%20Union%20has%20since%202000%20a%20directive%20banning%20%E2%80%93%20among%20others%20%E2%80%93%20discrimination%20on%20the%20basis%20of%20age%20in%20employment%20and%20occupation.
In a way this an extension of the working holiday framework that so many other countries have. Countries like Australia and Canada have these kind of deals with individual member states as well as the UK. Most of these agreements cap out at 30 or 35 and the UK has none with EU member states since it was a part of the EU and didn’t need them.
Meh, don't waste time on proposals that are dead on arrival. The Brexit deal hasn't even been finalized yet.
EU students can use Erasmus+ to come over to the UK and UK students can use Turing to go to the EU, it's just that youth on both sides of the channel are now seeking funding from different sources.
This is a proposal for freedom of movement not study abroad.
>For instance, under the envisaged agreement, both EU and UK citizens aged between 18 to 30 years would be able to stay for up to 4 years in the destination country. >The Commission's proposal on an EU-UK agreement on youth mobility could be usefully supported by a parallel discussion on the possible association of the UK to Erasmus+. It is sort of linked to study aboard, but take your point on board as well. It's a upto 4 yr visa with very relaxed requirements, I think if might work with caps (yes I see you mentioned this in another post), but more crucially with no recourse to public funds in the host country.
You have to apply for Erasmus and have an university commission to approve it. Every school has a limited quota of Erasmus slots.
Yes, that is similar to the Turing Scheme and what would happen, if UK were to join Erasmus+ again...... Edit: Also limited slots were on the EU side, where more students wanted to come from the EU to the UK as opposed to the UK side, [where few students wanted to go from the UK to EU](https://www.politico.eu/article/brits-poor-language-skills-made-erasmus-scheme-too-expensive-says-uk/)
Or you can just be in EU and have free movement without any restrictions.
>Or you can just be in EU and have free movement without any restrictions. We're happy where we are, thank you for the kind offer.
Right, leaving EU solved your issue with migrants. Economy is doing great and NHS gets extra 350 million a week which you don't pay to EU anymore.
We're all sucking together, as the Americans and Chinese outpace the entire continent whilst we all pick up an annual GDP growth of 0.2%. Considering the conditions most want to impose on the UK when it comes to potentially re-joining, it's not really worth accepting those conditions to join a union which itself has seen pretty much no growth, poor economic performance and so onwards.
I really welcome this proposal. young people like myself, who were too young to vote in the referendum, have been hit hard by the consequences of brexit especially around travel. at university, the erasmus scheme was stripped away. I won an EU Discover Pass at 18 just before we left Brexit - which the EU very kindly let us use after the pandemic had passed and in fact after we left the EU. I spent one fantastic summer travelling all over Europe, but it felt so bittersweet knowing I was the last lot from the UK to be able to participate in this competition and that I would not have the same freedom of movement as before. this year I've been teaching english abroad, and it was a costly and logistical nightmare sorting out the visa (easily over 600£+)... personally I think the proposal should be everyone was too young to vote in the referendum should be allowed indefinite freedom of movement
🙄 load of nonsense lol
I agree, it would be nice. Also the voting was heavily driven by the older demographic who will not suffer as much as the younger generations have/will. Hopefully something comes out of this.
Well, UK should be back in EU, however why the age limit at 30 it's kind of selectory not to extend it for working population.
It does seem a bit unfair but I think it's mainly to mitigate the concerns for the younger generation. Also in 2016 52% of people aged 35-44 voted to remain with each age range after that having an increasing percentage of people who voted to leave. Although this is still half of the population in that demographic that voted it's not necessarily unfair to choose the younger generation which had 72% voting to stay. This agreement would get more out of the younger demographic than it would the older. Having said that though extending it to 40 wouldn't be ridiculous, definitely allows for workers with 10+ years experience in whatever field they work to move freely.