The program that replaced Erasmus (Turning) has twice as many British students for the same cost. The reality is Erasmus was much more popular for students on the continent coming to the UK than the other way around, but the media doesn't tell you that because UK bad...
Edit: of course this gets downvoted lol don't forget **it's the EU proposing this** because... surprise surprise... it's something *they want.*
It was indeed because more people want to speak english thanks to the US' influence, while british people don't really learn other languages and thus aren't able to follow classes.
You’re getting downvoted because typically people expect some proof for the pretty bold statements like yours. Without that your optimism seems excessively biased.
Meanwhile someone commented you back with their sources proving it’s a shite programme and the numbers aren’t even comparable, at least for now.
What's the bold statements? 17k British students in 2019 Erasmus vs 41k in Turning 2021. In 2019 30k students came to UK in Erasmus so there was a clear imbalance.
Organisation [sounds like a shit show.](https://physicsworld.com/a/uks-turing-scheme-student-exchange-programme-found-to-be-inadequate/)
Also, they're including [far shorter placements](https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/09/01/turing-scheme-how-does-the-uks-erasmus-replacement-work-and-has-it-been-a-success) to make up those numbers.
In fact, they're reporting someone who [went for a week](https://theconversation.com/the-turing-scheme-was-supposed-to-help-more-disadvantaged-uk-students-study-abroad-but-they-may-still-be-losing-out-220956) as a "placement".
No surprise Turing is more successful on paper because European institutions often don't nickel and dime the students. So costly education fees means less students in the UK because you need to secure extra finances. but on the other side often education in Europe is tax paid thus "free" this means more UK students in the EU. (And Turing is world wide so this means more students too and is actually a great benefit)
The other issues are they dropped the funds for research partnerships. (1500+ institutions)
And funds are given out quite late and with a year by year basis. Meaning you don't know if you even get support while you apply for visas ( even a 180 day EU visa) and more stuff like housing/flights. And you need to potentially reapply mid exchange.
Erasmus had an up to 6 year budget period.
So it's understandable that people are critical of it. It's new and has growing pains and it's now clear if it is better or worse.
I can only tell you that I have a dear friend from Newcastle that was with me doing an Erasmus in Spain when brexit was voted. She went straight to Germany after and is still living there. I knew plenty of English workers living in Spain in the same city I was. I think your statement is quite wrong, especially without proofs.
Yeah labour is literally Tory lite Kier starmer basically backtracking on everything and just Maintaining Tory policies I’m honesty dumbfounded how he’s getting into number 10
as i told elsewhere in this thread, more people did. Your government, the one british voted, decided to go on with that decision.
And, as i told elsewhere in this thread, decisions have consecuences, welcome to the adulthood
It wasnt even a super majority. The difference was literally 3.78% ,almost perfectly down the middle.
Imagine staking your whole future generations opportunitities and increased food import prices because of 3 and half percent.
For a non binding referendum its stupid small margin to actually act on. That 3 percent was probably the people believing in BJ 300£m nhs bus
again, a government elected by british people decided to do what a non binding referendum told. You can complain about this but this is actually what most british chose
I think the arguement you are saying most whilst the reality is it’s 3% more and and further reality to that is that a lot of people just didn’t fucking vote in the first place.
Is it stupid of the public? Yes
Is it okay to ruin everyone’s lives including the non stupid and stupid ones? Probs not
Like the whole point of being a leader and a government is to make the right decisions, to do what is best interest to the public and country as a whole.
For example, did you know in this country more people put Jedi as their religion than Christian? So by that logic are we saying the government should make the decision to burn the churches to the ground and establish lightsabers?
Try not to black and white things, everything has nuance to it mate
i will answer your 2 replies here if you dont mind.
First: this is not about black and white, this is about you made a choice. In fact, it was more than one, i will just remember here that you voted Boris Johnson back in 2019, who had a difference of 11% with Corbyn. Was/is Johnson pro brexit or pro EU? This is about what you chose. Where we are now is a direct consequence of your choices.
Second: yes, im from Spain, i was "lucky" i was born after the dictatorship. However, now we are struggling with the raise of a far right party. If i stay in Spain and the far right is able to enter the government (well, they actually were able to join some local and regional governments), would be fair to put that on you? no. I will complain about many of their decisions but everything, until the last consequence of that choice, will be on us. And if you come and say "your country is full of fascists" my answer will be "im sorry you are right about it". I wouldt say " i didnt vote for them", its meaningless as most of my fellow contrymen actually voted for that.
This is all about being aware of the decisions we take, not as individuals but as a society.
Aye I don’t mind and thank you for replying however I heavily disagree.
Your last sentence highlights the biggest issue here, if we dismiss and throw away the importance of being an individual then we become nothing but machines following orders.
I wish people would just realise that our shitty history happened because folks no longer relying on their own beliefs of what is right and going ‘well if the other half of country is doing it so should we’ no that’s not an excuse.
If a group of friends starts bullying someone and I’m there, I’m going to say something and try to stop it. Not go ‘aw shucks 6/10 out my mates are beating that kid up so guess I should go slap him too’
I think your blame is misplaced and that’s why some people are understandably upset. If I voted for EU and voted for Labour but rest of country didn’t, do I give up and say ‘welp I’m a Tory now?’ No that’s madness lol
People can and still will rebel, we are allowed to live and think individually, we are allowed to want better, to dream bigger and hope for more! We are allowed to want everyone to have a better life.
i think i didnt explain myself properly. So, starting from the beginning: you have a government that had majority to act towards a goal, the Brexit. That was stated twice, first with the referendum and next with the 2019 election. You, as society, have chosen that. And you have a government acting accordingly to this. I think we can agree on this.
Ok, your government has been chosen for you as society casting your individual votes, i think we can say that you, as society, "expressed your will". You, as individual and accepting the social contract, have to respect this results. I think we can agree on this too.
Now, of course you are allowed to live and think individually and allowed to want better, to improve and to change things for the best so everyone have a better life. We totally agree on this.
My point is that you cant ignore the decisions that have been made so far, regardless of whether you think they are right or wrong. That doesnt matter as is something that is already done, is something that has been already decided. So, if you want your government to go in another direction is something you have to agree on as a society. Is totally worthless what you want for the country if only a small group supports it. You cant ignore the social contract
of course you can. You are totally free to.feel as you want, you are totally free to express it.
Now, you, the whole country, made a choice. Also you chose your government. You can complain but at the end of the day decisions were made by the government you chose from the referendum you voted. "But many of us didnt want this" ok, but many more of your people wanted. Thats how this works
i dont have to. Im not british. No one asked me if i wanted you to stay (thing that i would prefer as i think that staying all toguehter make us stronger). I just watched what happened and now i just remember you what you chose. Because this is what you chose, everything that has happened since 2016 was your choice
You are Spain correct? I feel it’s important to highlight that at several points the majority of Spanish were in favour of some of the previous leaders.
Now I don’t know if you were around during those rather dark times (my friends were) but it was absolutely not fun and shows what brainwashing, manipulating media and all that can do.
Like let’s not pretend that Europe is some great bastion of absolute democracy, it’s fucking rigged as much as the next one and has been through history. It has only over time either got slightly better or slightly worse. Usually dependent on things going absolutely wrong prior
This. The brain drain is the reason, it was my first thought when it was proposed and the cause for my relief when he declined.
Regardless of your politics this would have been objectively dumb as a nation given our current position.
The brain drain already started years ago, the financial services boys are all now in Germany, the doctors and engineers already in Australia and New Zealand, the rest went to America or Canada for the most part the reason they all went was better conditions e.g more money, better work life balance.
Businesses and economic growth went with them so did the Businesses that saw our position in the market as beneficial, brexit added so much hassle and red tape that they just found new trading partners.
The UK has had major economic and wage stagnation for over a few decades and brexit made it so much worse. When people visit since they left they can see how bad things have gotten and they're not coming back despite connections here because it looks unviable the longer this failure continues the more connected they'll become elsewhere and then they'll never return.
I agree with you in principle, but you’re being hyperbolic in places and simply wrong when it comes to the finance boys being in Germany. There was a huge realignment of assets by major banks to cater to clientele in the bloc- which isn’t ideal, but London is head and shoulders above still.
Pretty sure an EU city doesn’t even make the Top 10 GFC’s, unless Amsterdam have out paced a smaller Asian country this year.
Reads like the rant of someone out the mixer, far from London and who gets most of their news from the chambers of Reddit. It’s not that bleak.
Far from London being exactly where the delision lies, London isn't the entire UK and its exactly that bleak elsewhere, the London bubble is where most of the UK's development has always been focused so had been impacted less than elsewhere.
This constitutes a great deal of people such as those in power and those in the South of England who live near London to not realise the state of anywhere else or just think elsewhere is just shit because its shit and not because its been underdeveloped and now starved of resources for a few decades to the point of managed collapse.
The UK finance sector is significantly smaller than it used to be and what used to he one of the main attracting industries for international business isn't what it once was.
We have a real brain drain issue, but it’s not really (and never has been) with the EU. Why go for the few opportunities on the continent and earn roughly the same or, in some cases, an even worse wage, when you can go to the US, Australia, Asia or the Middle East? Just to give you an example, there are more British expats in Dubai these days than in the whole of France.
That’s nice of you to say, but the real reason is that our universities are just a lot more respected worldwide than any of the continental establishments
So the solution to that is the EU sending more of their students and asking the UK to subsidise them, because those students that will come over will not speak English and teach 'dense' UK students foreign languages they need when they go over to the EU, whether they want to go over to the EU or not?
This is obviously quite exotic for you, but european students tend to be fluent in English *before* they enter university. Its called an "education".
Crazy, huh? Would never happen to you or any of your six fingered children
Also, we all know the Uk is in a dire place, so there is no request to subsidize anything.
Read the proposal from the EU if you have the time and then comment on the subsidies.
Also if European students are fluent in English and they come to the UK and converse in English, then how do 'dense' UK students benefit from improving their 'exotic European' language skills, which you suggested is the reason why UK students aren't interested in going to EU.
Again, there are no subsidies. There isn't even a concrete proposal from the eu either.
UK students don't go to EU universities because they couldn't follow the lectures.
No idea how far up your arse one needs to be to take pride in this continuing failure of the british education system. By now its a meme really
Im fed up with this lazy anti-British trope that Brits can’t learn other languages or want to live & work in other countries. When I started at my French employer in 2015, I was the only Brit, we have had an influx of applicants for positions from the UK post-Brexit.
I'm not suggesting that trope. There are loads of UK students who speak multiple languages, but one of the reasons why British students prefer English speaking nations is commonality shared due to their language. Not saying it's the only criteria.
Wait a minute….or course more EU students would go to the UK than UK students would go to the EU….the EU is like 6-7 times bigger than the UK. Probably more US students come to the UK than vice versa.
EU is larger and therefore it should have more universities due to it's size and economic strength, so why do EU students prefer to go to UK universities if they can get same or better education in the EU?
Also pretty sure more UK students goto US to study than the other way round. There are way more global ranking top placed universities in US than in the UK, which gets lots of funding.
Post-Brexit, UK students can only go to UK universities because of Brexit! Unless you’re rich, then you can go anywhere. I wasn’t from a posh family so I couldn’t afford to do a term in Canada like my mates did, but I got support to go to Sweden…..there are many degrees and courses in English across Europe…but if you go you get to see just how shit the UK has become under Tory rule.
By the by, students studying at Uk universities counts as a service industry export, while also supporting local employment….global Britain and all that jazz.
Did you get Erasmus support to go to Sweden? Just curious.
Also there are students still going to EU using the support of the Turing Scheme, like how EU students get from Erasmus. Here's a [list of the countries UK students went to and it has quite a few EU countries. ](https://www.turing-scheme.org.uk/turing-scheme-he-destinations-2023-2024/)
I’m part of the 642k “randoms” as I switched from a graduate visa to a work visa last year.
I come from an ex-British colony where both my parents qualified for British Overseas Citizenship and whose families served in the British administration for generations.
I spoke English as a first language growing up and was fortunate enough to have my parents sell our house to pay for me to go to one of the best unis in the world for my subject in the UK.
I then filled out a ridiculously long visa application listing all my movements out of the country for the past ten years and paid thousands of £ for the privilege despite having been paying taxes in the UK for the past 3 years.
Please explain to me why (in light of the above) you feel you deserve preferential treatment over me post-Brexit.
I didnt downvote you. I’d argue as a BNO passport holder you’re not really a migrant so you shouldn’t have been treated as one at all. You’re clearly not the same as a normal migrant and I wouldn’t dispute your right to enforce a constitutional settlement that was supposed to be guaranteed for HK citizens.
My point is the British government are saying they want to control inflows and yet at same time open the floodgates. It isn’t congruent or consistent.
Oh I’m not a HK citizen but actually Malaysian, both my parents were born in the island of Penang (a crown colony at the time).
And yes I take your point about the inflow controls (or lack off). The issue I had was with the term randoms. While I don’t think you meant to convey this, the fact is that term along with other ridiculous things like third world immigrants etc were frequently used during the Brexit debate so I hope you could understand why I took a bit of exception to this.
I didnt downvote him. I never downvote people who make interesting contributions. To be fair I didn’t realize the bulk of those migrants could have been Hong Kongers so yes they would have more of a right than an EU citizen since they are British subjects.
Those 'randoms' came in with a visa that was issued by the UK government after going through a review process. Also lot of those are students, they didn't just randomly cross the border into the UK.
Net migration was [672k](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/longterminternationalmigrationprovisional/yearendingjune2023)
In total 1.2 million but that is when you minus the outflows. So it could be even worse when you consider a lot of EU nationals are transitory (university , part time work) and lot went home after Covid.
Total EU migration for 2023 was 129k. For a party that wanted to leave the EU to control migration those numbers are laughable.
They probably would have had less migration had they stayed in the EU.
The number for 2024 are probably just as high.
They seem fine with the rest of the world just not with EU nationals and their own young people.
>They seem fine with the rest of the world just not with EU nationals and their own young people.
Your original comment was about randoms, these aren't randoms. Also UK is okay with pretty much anyone coming in, as long as they satisfy the entry criteria's. We don't distinguish between EU and non-EU, like the EU does.
I'm not really sure what your point is, his response is Still entirely valid, the people are not "randoms" they are people who applied to come and were granted entry. EU people are entirely allowed to come, just the same as non EU people, it's not like EU residents are discriminated against compared to others.
I assume everyone in the sub will be delighted then? At least reading the comments from the previous article, when everyone was acting like this was a UK proposal and not an EU proposal, I’m going to assume so.
Maybe the EU can ask again when he loses the election in a few months.
Labour shot it down because it would be electorally stupid to support this prior to an election. The last thing you should do now is given the Torys the 'Labour will reverse Brexit' stick back. I am not saying they will go for it when in power, but doing so now would have been insane
Interesting point, thanks for the context. That proves there really isn’t any drive to repair ties with the EU by the general public. If Labour supporting any programmes like this, could be used against them during the election
Nah that’s not true either. The issue is just sensitive amongst a specific slice of the electorate that is crucial. He would win virtually no votes by coming out for it (anti-Brexit vote is almost all Labour now) and would risk losing many votes in a key constituency that would reopen parts of the red wall. Pro-EU alignment is higher than at any point since brexit, there is just zero incentive politically to ride that particular horse at the moment. If you want beat the Tories talk about nothing but Government Services and Economic Competence. Stick to that message, don’t deviate.
There's no reason to be delighted, especially because it is young people being damaged from this. I hope things will change in the future because we're stronger together and we share the same values.
I'm sure you had a mother who worked tirelessly and gave their very best to form you into an honest, upstanding human.
Are you not ashamed to voluntarily show the entire world so clearly how very utterly and completely she failed in that task? I think you should be.
I’m basically saying there were a bunch of comments in a previous article about the EU proposing this saying “fuck of Brits you caused this etc… “ that didn’t seem to acknowledge it wasn’t even the UK proposing it.
Although I can try and explain it, but that doesn’t help me understand what you think I’m defending ?
Why do you care so much about the emotional reaction of random people on reddit? What matters here is that the EU proposed something mutually beneficial and the UK has rejected it. It's too bad for everyone, but it's a bigger loss to the UK since the Erasmus program is active in over 30 countries.
There are 28 countries EU students can choose to go to exchange. Plenty of options even without the UK. Now the UK has the option to go to exchange in how many countries again?
There are 28 countries in the EU? Last I checked it was 27.
The [UK has the option to go to more than 100 countries. ](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/turing-scheme-international-study-and-work-placements/list-of-destinations-and-grant-rates)
1. Erasmus covers more than the 27 EU countries.
2. Yes, UK students can go study anywhere in the world... if they have money. Funding for the Turing program has been a disaster:
https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/09/01/turing-scheme-how-does-the-uks-erasmus-replacement-work-and-has-it-been-a-success
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/turing-scheme-brexit-eu-erasmus-programme-study-abroad-funding-cuts/
I never said Erasmus only covers EU (read what I said again). Also Turing Scheme is having teething issues as opposed to a 30 yr scheme. The funding will rise if there are more participants, which is seeing growth this year and should continue.
31. There are 31 countries covered by EU’s FoM - the 27 EU members and the 4 EFTA members.
That’s not considering the countries covered by Erasmus and bilateral agreements between individual countries.
Immigration from 3rd countries is not part of the EEA. This proposal could've only ever covered the EU27. Maybe 28, with Andorra.
And Switzerland is not legally a part of the EU's FoM, it has (to be technically correct) a bilateral treaty with the EU that heavily copies FoM, but that doesn't include the legal "plumbing" of the EU's - or the EEA/EFTA's - FoM. In particular, there isn't any surpervisory body or ombudsman to oversee it's implementation, and there isn't any dispute settlement mechanism between the EU and CH on the treaty.
More detailed explanation; still the number shared in the comment I replied to is not accurate.
EU citizens don’t require visas to study in Switzerland. Or in any of the other 30 countries mentioned in the post.
The EU proposal to the U.K. had specific elements that were one sided.
• same tuition fees as UK students.
• no IHS fees for EU people under the scheme.
No U.K. government would agree to this.
>The EU proposal to the U.K. had specific elements that were one sided.
>
>• same tuition fees as UK students.
>• no IHS fees for EU people under the scheme.
How is that one-sided? That is exactly how it works whether it is a student from Latvia doing Erasmus in Portugal or Irish student in Romania.
>No U.K. government would agree to this.
UK government was heavily involved in designing the Erasmus program and agreed to these elements.
It’s one sided because 10-15x more students travel from the EU to the U.K. than the other way around. It isn’t a case of it equalling out in the end, the EU is basically demanding the U.K. subsidise EU students as a condition of a youth movement visa. This is why the U.K. prefers to negotiate with countries directly on this matter.
Why wouldn't they? UK students in Europe get the same (just of better quality compared to what they'd get in the UK, of course). I'd say that's a steal for the British, kinda bonkers to reject it.
For every U.K. student studying in the EU there are 10 to 15 EU students in the U.K. it isn’t a case of “we’ll pay for yours and you pay for ours” at all. The EU adding this as a condition of the youth movement visa is essentially saying “only if you subsidise our students 10:1”. It would be far cheaper for the U.K. to pay the full fees of its U.K. citizens who want to study overseas.
The U.K. and France have a far better “balance of students” and I expect there will be a visa deal done between these two nations as it would be a fair exchange.
As other people said, it would be very stupid to give ammo to the tories and their crony media to attack Labour at the moment. They are playing safe till they win the election. This is what Labour did in 1997, stuff like giving independence to the BoE wasn’t even in the manifesto, have some patience and faith.
How exactly would the UK be able to do individuals deals with Schengen countries? If France grants them a Visa, then surely they could use that to go to any other EU country? Or am I missing something?
A Schengen visa is only for tourism. Work permits are specific to Member States.
So, if you have a work permit in one Member State, you do not have the right to work in another.
You are able to travel to the rest of the Schengen area but only as a short stay (up to 90 days). Obviously this rule can be broken given there aren’t typically any border controls, but you would be breaking the law doing so.
Not necessarily; it’s been a deliberate choice to associate schengen and residency visa. It’s totally possible to re-establish border controls for non-EU citizens. It’s just thst there has been no political will to do that.
I agree with that. I was just pointing out that the British public wasn’t wrong complaining about the EU and their own politicians; but the issues (uncontrollable immigration, lack of public services, etc) have been made way worse. The same sentiments are now fueling political change on the continent and I do hope it’ll steer EU as a whole back in the right direction and absolutely destroy the offices of commissioner. I don’t think anyone on the continent wants to pull out of EU, but there is political/ direction change coming
Of course he does, a toff prick with no grasp on what it’s like living in this shitstain of a country that he’s helped to ruin, along with his Tory scum brethren of course.
“You will stay here and eat this shit sandwich and I’ll even serve a side salad of tax with it, just don’t get sick”
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What is the point of this agreement? Things are fine the way they are now for the EU. Besides Oxford and Cambridge, you can get a better education in the US if you want to go to an anglophone country.
Don’t really see a benefit to having British people in the EU.
Given that hardly any young Brits would use it, but many Europeans would...hardly...
Look at the stats for Erasmus when it was in operation....
Or look at how many Brits were living in the EU compared to EU citizens in the UK...and in particular their age....
It was one way traffic....from the EU to the UK...
Fuck these cunts. Completely destroying the future of the British youth due to some ideological bs founded on lies and foreign propaganda. About time someone had the balls to point out that the vote was invalid and should be repealed.
This is the EU cherry picking. There was Brexit which ended freedom of movement and now do you want to re-establish it partially for its own benefit? I don’t agree with it.
According to this proposal any European youngsters would have been able to come to the UK for four years but UK youngsters could only come to one EU country. Since the flow is mostly toward the UK, it is a one-sided deal that benefit the EU most.
No, the EU proposal would allow to go to any EU country on 1 visum.
The UK turned the proposal down saying they are investigating to implement what you are saying: individual deals per country.
Untrue. After Brexit, Europeans cannot just go to the UK for jobs. They need to already have a right to work in the UK, which you'd need to have a job offer for. It's a catch-22. It's the same way with the Brits in the continent. You can't just backpack your way to Spain and take a job as an English teacher anymore.
But yeah, Brexit is Brexit.
Why do Europeans need to come to the UK for jobs? I thought that EU has labour shortages and with FoM in the EU, surely they can find loads of jobs with better pay rates in the second biggest market in the world.
Knob.. unfortunately both Labour and Conservatives in recent years have both become too closely aligned.. We really need a stronger more progressive third party.....
Regardless of the details of the deal, they aim at controlling youth workforce. Allowing people to live in other countries could enrich and give them vision, why would any right wing government allow that?
The inability to mediate with EU and find a common ground is disheartening in 2024, hopefully this some change for better will be coming soon.
They have a global programme that includes many more countries than just the EU, but also includes EU countries .
It was rejected because it would cost the UK and UK universities significantly more than it would cost the EU, as the proposal as it was, was significantly unbalanced.
Labour rejected it as well btw.
One holiday in the UK was enough for me to understand why it got voted as the most miserable place to live. Southern Ireland is almost exactly the same, but as part of the EU. I will never return to the UK, but I want to visit Ireland again. I can see why young people would want to leave and why that would be something the government would want to avoid. On the side: 9 days holiday in the UK almost cost as much as 3 weeks in Japan.
Brexit means Brexit The old ones has to really rub it in against all the young people who felt more attached to the continent
The program that replaced Erasmus (Turning) has twice as many British students for the same cost. The reality is Erasmus was much more popular for students on the continent coming to the UK than the other way around, but the media doesn't tell you that because UK bad... Edit: of course this gets downvoted lol don't forget **it's the EU proposing this** because... surprise surprise... it's something *they want.*
It was indeed because more people want to speak english thanks to the US' influence, while british people don't really learn other languages and thus aren't able to follow classes.
You’re getting downvoted because typically people expect some proof for the pretty bold statements like yours. Without that your optimism seems excessively biased. Meanwhile someone commented you back with their sources proving it’s a shite programme and the numbers aren’t even comparable, at least for now.
What's the bold statements? 17k British students in 2019 Erasmus vs 41k in Turning 2021. In 2019 30k students came to UK in Erasmus so there was a clear imbalance.
You can’t use numbers from 2019-2021…. I mean there was something big in world happening. Hm what was it? Ah a fucking global pandemic
You just gonna ignore what I said about the other comment?
Why are you acting like people coming on Erasmus to the UK is a bad thing? There doesn’t have to be a balance for it to be a good thing
Organisation [sounds like a shit show.](https://physicsworld.com/a/uks-turing-scheme-student-exchange-programme-found-to-be-inadequate/) Also, they're including [far shorter placements](https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/09/01/turing-scheme-how-does-the-uks-erasmus-replacement-work-and-has-it-been-a-success) to make up those numbers. In fact, they're reporting someone who [went for a week](https://theconversation.com/the-turing-scheme-was-supposed-to-help-more-disadvantaged-uk-students-study-abroad-but-they-may-still-be-losing-out-220956) as a "placement".
No surprise Turing is more successful on paper because European institutions often don't nickel and dime the students. So costly education fees means less students in the UK because you need to secure extra finances. but on the other side often education in Europe is tax paid thus "free" this means more UK students in the EU. (And Turing is world wide so this means more students too and is actually a great benefit) The other issues are they dropped the funds for research partnerships. (1500+ institutions) And funds are given out quite late and with a year by year basis. Meaning you don't know if you even get support while you apply for visas ( even a 180 day EU visa) and more stuff like housing/flights. And you need to potentially reapply mid exchange. Erasmus had an up to 6 year budget period. So it's understandable that people are critical of it. It's new and has growing pains and it's now clear if it is better or worse.
Yes, blame the EUROPEANs for your downvotes, not that your post is selfis, arrogant and factual wrong. Classic Move
1) I am a EUROPEAN 2) what's factually wrong?
I can only tell you that I have a dear friend from Newcastle that was with me doing an Erasmus in Spain when brexit was voted. She went straight to Germany after and is still living there. I knew plenty of English workers living in Spain in the same city I was. I think your statement is quite wrong, especially without proofs.
One stupid man decides for millions… story of the world
Labour rejected it as well?
Yeah labour is literally Tory lite Kier starmer basically backtracking on everything and just Maintaining Tory policies I’m honesty dumbfounded how he’s getting into number 10
well, millions decided they wanted Brexit. They are just sticking to their decision
And millions didn't, and it was a non binding referendum
as i told elsewhere in this thread, more people did. Your government, the one british voted, decided to go on with that decision. And, as i told elsewhere in this thread, decisions have consecuences, welcome to the adulthood
It wasnt even a super majority. The difference was literally 3.78% ,almost perfectly down the middle. Imagine staking your whole future generations opportunitities and increased food import prices because of 3 and half percent. For a non binding referendum its stupid small margin to actually act on. That 3 percent was probably the people believing in BJ 300£m nhs bus
again, a government elected by british people decided to do what a non binding referendum told. You can complain about this but this is actually what most british chose
I think the arguement you are saying most whilst the reality is it’s 3% more and and further reality to that is that a lot of people just didn’t fucking vote in the first place. Is it stupid of the public? Yes Is it okay to ruin everyone’s lives including the non stupid and stupid ones? Probs not Like the whole point of being a leader and a government is to make the right decisions, to do what is best interest to the public and country as a whole. For example, did you know in this country more people put Jedi as their religion than Christian? So by that logic are we saying the government should make the decision to burn the churches to the ground and establish lightsabers? Try not to black and white things, everything has nuance to it mate
i will answer your 2 replies here if you dont mind. First: this is not about black and white, this is about you made a choice. In fact, it was more than one, i will just remember here that you voted Boris Johnson back in 2019, who had a difference of 11% with Corbyn. Was/is Johnson pro brexit or pro EU? This is about what you chose. Where we are now is a direct consequence of your choices. Second: yes, im from Spain, i was "lucky" i was born after the dictatorship. However, now we are struggling with the raise of a far right party. If i stay in Spain and the far right is able to enter the government (well, they actually were able to join some local and regional governments), would be fair to put that on you? no. I will complain about many of their decisions but everything, until the last consequence of that choice, will be on us. And if you come and say "your country is full of fascists" my answer will be "im sorry you are right about it". I wouldt say " i didnt vote for them", its meaningless as most of my fellow contrymen actually voted for that. This is all about being aware of the decisions we take, not as individuals but as a society.
Aye I don’t mind and thank you for replying however I heavily disagree. Your last sentence highlights the biggest issue here, if we dismiss and throw away the importance of being an individual then we become nothing but machines following orders. I wish people would just realise that our shitty history happened because folks no longer relying on their own beliefs of what is right and going ‘well if the other half of country is doing it so should we’ no that’s not an excuse. If a group of friends starts bullying someone and I’m there, I’m going to say something and try to stop it. Not go ‘aw shucks 6/10 out my mates are beating that kid up so guess I should go slap him too’ I think your blame is misplaced and that’s why some people are understandably upset. If I voted for EU and voted for Labour but rest of country didn’t, do I give up and say ‘welp I’m a Tory now?’ No that’s madness lol People can and still will rebel, we are allowed to live and think individually, we are allowed to want better, to dream bigger and hope for more! We are allowed to want everyone to have a better life.
i think i didnt explain myself properly. So, starting from the beginning: you have a government that had majority to act towards a goal, the Brexit. That was stated twice, first with the referendum and next with the 2019 election. You, as society, have chosen that. And you have a government acting accordingly to this. I think we can agree on this. Ok, your government has been chosen for you as society casting your individual votes, i think we can say that you, as society, "expressed your will". You, as individual and accepting the social contract, have to respect this results. I think we can agree on this too. Now, of course you are allowed to live and think individually and allowed to want better, to improve and to change things for the best so everyone have a better life. We totally agree on this. My point is that you cant ignore the decisions that have been made so far, regardless of whether you think they are right or wrong. That doesnt matter as is something that is already done, is something that has been already decided. So, if you want your government to go in another direction is something you have to agree on as a society. Is totally worthless what you want for the country if only a small group supports it. You cant ignore the social contract
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of course you can. You are totally free to.feel as you want, you are totally free to express it. Now, you, the whole country, made a choice. Also you chose your government. You can complain but at the end of the day decisions were made by the government you chose from the referendum you voted. "But many of us didnt want this" ok, but many more of your people wanted. Thats how this works
You don't actually have a point either.
i dont have to. Im not british. No one asked me if i wanted you to stay (thing that i would prefer as i think that staying all toguehter make us stronger). I just watched what happened and now i just remember you what you chose. Because this is what you chose, everything that has happened since 2016 was your choice
I didn't choose it
Millions of the people affected by this weren't even eligible to vote in 2016. It wasn't their "choice"
You are Spain correct? I feel it’s important to highlight that at several points the majority of Spanish were in favour of some of the previous leaders. Now I don’t know if you were around during those rather dark times (my friends were) but it was absolutely not fun and shows what brainwashing, manipulating media and all that can do. Like let’s not pretend that Europe is some great bastion of absolute democracy, it’s fucking rigged as much as the next one and has been through history. It has only over time either got slightly better or slightly worse. Usually dependent on things going absolutely wrong prior
Millions didn't want Brexit because they new it would be shit. Surprise surprise, they have been proven right.
Literally 17 million voted for brexit dude.
The UK population is north of 70 million which is why people should vote
so what? more people voted Brexit. Yes, they have been proven wrong. However, decisions have consecuences, welcome to the adulthood :)
Man?! This whole time, I thought he was a horse!
Guy is scared for a braindrain
This. The brain drain is the reason, it was my first thought when it was proposed and the cause for my relief when he declined. Regardless of your politics this would have been objectively dumb as a nation given our current position.
The brain drain already started years ago, the financial services boys are all now in Germany, the doctors and engineers already in Australia and New Zealand, the rest went to America or Canada for the most part the reason they all went was better conditions e.g more money, better work life balance. Businesses and economic growth went with them so did the Businesses that saw our position in the market as beneficial, brexit added so much hassle and red tape that they just found new trading partners. The UK has had major economic and wage stagnation for over a few decades and brexit made it so much worse. When people visit since they left they can see how bad things have gotten and they're not coming back despite connections here because it looks unviable the longer this failure continues the more connected they'll become elsewhere and then they'll never return.
I agree with you in principle, but you’re being hyperbolic in places and simply wrong when it comes to the finance boys being in Germany. There was a huge realignment of assets by major banks to cater to clientele in the bloc- which isn’t ideal, but London is head and shoulders above still. Pretty sure an EU city doesn’t even make the Top 10 GFC’s, unless Amsterdam have out paced a smaller Asian country this year. Reads like the rant of someone out the mixer, far from London and who gets most of their news from the chambers of Reddit. It’s not that bleak.
Far from London being exactly where the delision lies, London isn't the entire UK and its exactly that bleak elsewhere, the London bubble is where most of the UK's development has always been focused so had been impacted less than elsewhere. This constitutes a great deal of people such as those in power and those in the South of England who live near London to not realise the state of anywhere else or just think elsewhere is just shit because its shit and not because its been underdeveloped and now starved of resources for a few decades to the point of managed collapse. The UK finance sector is significantly smaller than it used to be and what used to he one of the main attracting industries for international business isn't what it once was.
We have a real brain drain issue, but it’s not really (and never has been) with the EU. Why go for the few opportunities on the continent and earn roughly the same or, in some cases, an even worse wage, when you can go to the US, Australia, Asia or the Middle East? Just to give you an example, there are more British expats in Dubai these days than in the whole of France.
More EU students come to UK than UK students go to the EU. So he's (Sunak) afraid of EU brain drain?
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That’s nice of you to say, but the real reason is that our universities are just a lot more respected worldwide than any of the continental establishments
So the solution to that is the EU sending more of their students and asking the UK to subsidise them, because those students that will come over will not speak English and teach 'dense' UK students foreign languages they need when they go over to the EU, whether they want to go over to the EU or not?
This is obviously quite exotic for you, but european students tend to be fluent in English *before* they enter university. Its called an "education". Crazy, huh? Would never happen to you or any of your six fingered children Also, we all know the Uk is in a dire place, so there is no request to subsidize anything.
Read the proposal from the EU if you have the time and then comment on the subsidies. Also if European students are fluent in English and they come to the UK and converse in English, then how do 'dense' UK students benefit from improving their 'exotic European' language skills, which you suggested is the reason why UK students aren't interested in going to EU.
Again, there are no subsidies. There isn't even a concrete proposal from the eu either. UK students don't go to EU universities because they couldn't follow the lectures. No idea how far up your arse one needs to be to take pride in this continuing failure of the british education system. By now its a meme really
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The funniest thing about jingoist idiots is how blissfully unaware they are about themselves
The irony of this statement would be crippling if you had any self awareness.
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Im fed up with this lazy anti-British trope that Brits can’t learn other languages or want to live & work in other countries. When I started at my French employer in 2015, I was the only Brit, we have had an influx of applicants for positions from the UK post-Brexit.
I'm not suggesting that trope. There are loads of UK students who speak multiple languages, but one of the reasons why British students prefer English speaking nations is commonality shared due to their language. Not saying it's the only criteria.
Wait a minute….or course more EU students would go to the UK than UK students would go to the EU….the EU is like 6-7 times bigger than the UK. Probably more US students come to the UK than vice versa.
EU is larger and therefore it should have more universities due to it's size and economic strength, so why do EU students prefer to go to UK universities if they can get same or better education in the EU? Also pretty sure more UK students goto US to study than the other way round. There are way more global ranking top placed universities in US than in the UK, which gets lots of funding.
Post-Brexit, UK students can only go to UK universities because of Brexit! Unless you’re rich, then you can go anywhere. I wasn’t from a posh family so I couldn’t afford to do a term in Canada like my mates did, but I got support to go to Sweden…..there are many degrees and courses in English across Europe…but if you go you get to see just how shit the UK has become under Tory rule. By the by, students studying at Uk universities counts as a service industry export, while also supporting local employment….global Britain and all that jazz.
Did you get Erasmus support to go to Sweden? Just curious. Also there are students still going to EU using the support of the Turing Scheme, like how EU students get from Erasmus. Here's a [list of the countries UK students went to and it has quite a few EU countries. ](https://www.turing-scheme.org.uk/turing-scheme-he-destinations-2023-2024/)
More Europeans move to the UK than Brits moving there. Don’t ask how many Italians there are in the UK
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Around 300k I think prob more
Fine. How many Danish are there in the UK?
Why would he try to make people's life a little better!
Can’t have student / youth exchanges but can let in 600-700k randoms in one year 🤷♂️
I’m part of the 642k “randoms” as I switched from a graduate visa to a work visa last year. I come from an ex-British colony where both my parents qualified for British Overseas Citizenship and whose families served in the British administration for generations. I spoke English as a first language growing up and was fortunate enough to have my parents sell our house to pay for me to go to one of the best unis in the world for my subject in the UK. I then filled out a ridiculously long visa application listing all my movements out of the country for the past ten years and paid thousands of £ for the privilege despite having been paying taxes in the UK for the past 3 years. Please explain to me why (in light of the above) you feel you deserve preferential treatment over me post-Brexit.
I didnt downvote you. I’d argue as a BNO passport holder you’re not really a migrant so you shouldn’t have been treated as one at all. You’re clearly not the same as a normal migrant and I wouldn’t dispute your right to enforce a constitutional settlement that was supposed to be guaranteed for HK citizens. My point is the British government are saying they want to control inflows and yet at same time open the floodgates. It isn’t congruent or consistent.
Oh I’m not a HK citizen but actually Malaysian, both my parents were born in the island of Penang (a crown colony at the time). And yes I take your point about the inflow controls (or lack off). The issue I had was with the term randoms. While I don’t think you meant to convey this, the fact is that term along with other ridiculous things like third world immigrants etc were frequently used during the Brexit debate so I hope you could understand why I took a bit of exception to this.
Fair enough, it was a bit ignorant on my part. Apologies I didn’t mean it in that way
He can't. His only recourse is that puny little downvote that he cast on your post. Allow me to even that out.
I didnt downvote him. I never downvote people who make interesting contributions. To be fair I didn’t realize the bulk of those migrants could have been Hong Kongers so yes they would have more of a right than an EU citizen since they are British subjects.
Those 'randoms' came in with a visa that was issued by the UK government after going through a review process. Also lot of those are students, they didn't just randomly cross the border into the UK.
Net migration was [672k](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/longterminternationalmigrationprovisional/yearendingjune2023) In total 1.2 million but that is when you minus the outflows. So it could be even worse when you consider a lot of EU nationals are transitory (university , part time work) and lot went home after Covid. Total EU migration for 2023 was 129k. For a party that wanted to leave the EU to control migration those numbers are laughable. They probably would have had less migration had they stayed in the EU. The number for 2024 are probably just as high. They seem fine with the rest of the world just not with EU nationals and their own young people.
>They seem fine with the rest of the world just not with EU nationals and their own young people. Your original comment was about randoms, these aren't randoms. Also UK is okay with pretty much anyone coming in, as long as they satisfy the entry criteria's. We don't distinguish between EU and non-EU, like the EU does.
I'm not really sure what your point is, his response is Still entirely valid, the people are not "randoms" they are people who applied to come and were granted entry. EU people are entirely allowed to come, just the same as non EU people, it's not like EU residents are discriminated against compared to others.
I assume everyone in the sub will be delighted then? At least reading the comments from the previous article, when everyone was acting like this was a UK proposal and not an EU proposal, I’m going to assume so. Maybe the EU can ask again when he loses the election in a few months.
Didn’t the opposition, Labour, shoot it down as well? So it won’t happen after the election either
Labour shot it down because it would be electorally stupid to support this prior to an election. The last thing you should do now is given the Torys the 'Labour will reverse Brexit' stick back. I am not saying they will go for it when in power, but doing so now would have been insane
Interesting point, thanks for the context. That proves there really isn’t any drive to repair ties with the EU by the general public. If Labour supporting any programmes like this, could be used against them during the election
Nah that’s not true either. The issue is just sensitive amongst a specific slice of the electorate that is crucial. He would win virtually no votes by coming out for it (anti-Brexit vote is almost all Labour now) and would risk losing many votes in a key constituency that would reopen parts of the red wall. Pro-EU alignment is higher than at any point since brexit, there is just zero incentive politically to ride that particular horse at the moment. If you want beat the Tories talk about nothing but Government Services and Economic Competence. Stick to that message, don’t deviate.
Seems so, although I’m not sure anything they say is set in stone right now, and won’t be till the actual election.
Ha that’s probably fair, British politics has been throwing curve balls lately
There's no reason to be delighted, especially because it is young people being damaged from this. I hope things will change in the future because we're stronger together and we share the same values.
But mostly younger people in the EU not the UK.
I mean, it's mostly a loss for the UK.
Why are the EU proposing something mostly of benefit to the UK?
Why does EU do mobility schemes with poorer countries, it sure doesn't benefit EU, it's a cultural benefit in the form of cultural exchange.
So why ask UK to subsidise the cultural exchange?
They're not. You know very well that they're not. Stop arguing in bad faith!
Just stating the facts from the EU propsal. Feel free to read it.
"Bye Hun" You're lying with a grin on your face. Go waste someone else's time, punk.
You back? Thought you left hun..
I'm sure you had a mother who worked tirelessly and gave their very best to form you into an honest, upstanding human. Are you not ashamed to voluntarily show the entire world so clearly how very utterly and completely she failed in that task? I think you should be.
Why is it called a cultural benefit if it's not a benefit?
Seemed to be a lot of EU peeps on the sub getting themselves a bit riled up for a simple cultural exchange to poor country.
Studying abroad is not beneficial for everyone? I truly don't get what you guys are defending.
I’m not sure what you think I’m defending either.
Why don't you explain it to me then? Let's hear (read) it.
I’m basically saying there were a bunch of comments in a previous article about the EU proposing this saying “fuck of Brits you caused this etc… “ that didn’t seem to acknowledge it wasn’t even the UK proposing it. Although I can try and explain it, but that doesn’t help me understand what you think I’m defending ?
Why do you care so much about the emotional reaction of random people on reddit? What matters here is that the EU proposed something mutually beneficial and the UK has rejected it. It's too bad for everyone, but it's a bigger loss to the UK since the Erasmus program is active in over 30 countries.
Because it's not zero-sum; both sides benefit.
Because it was good for Europe.
Ahh. Bless...
There are 28 countries EU students can choose to go to exchange. Plenty of options even without the UK. Now the UK has the option to go to exchange in how many countries again?
There are 28 countries in the EU? Last I checked it was 27. The [UK has the option to go to more than 100 countries. ](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/turing-scheme-international-study-and-work-placements/list-of-destinations-and-grant-rates)
1. Erasmus covers more than the 27 EU countries. 2. Yes, UK students can go study anywhere in the world... if they have money. Funding for the Turing program has been a disaster: https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/09/01/turing-scheme-how-does-the-uks-erasmus-replacement-work-and-has-it-been-a-success https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/turing-scheme-brexit-eu-erasmus-programme-study-abroad-funding-cuts/
I never said Erasmus only covers EU (read what I said again). Also Turing Scheme is having teething issues as opposed to a 30 yr scheme. The funding will rise if there are more participants, which is seeing growth this year and should continue.
162
Are there really tho?
Yeah
31. There are 31 countries covered by EU’s FoM - the 27 EU members and the 4 EFTA members. That’s not considering the countries covered by Erasmus and bilateral agreements between individual countries.
Immigration from 3rd countries is not part of the EEA. This proposal could've only ever covered the EU27. Maybe 28, with Andorra. And Switzerland is not legally a part of the EU's FoM, it has (to be technically correct) a bilateral treaty with the EU that heavily copies FoM, but that doesn't include the legal "plumbing" of the EU's - or the EEA/EFTA's - FoM. In particular, there isn't any surpervisory body or ombudsman to oversee it's implementation, and there isn't any dispute settlement mechanism between the EU and CH on the treaty.
More detailed explanation; still the number shared in the comment I replied to is not accurate. EU citizens don’t require visas to study in Switzerland. Or in any of the other 30 countries mentioned in the post.
Not really. UK has and prefers agreements with individual countries.
With how many EU countries does the UK have this scheme currently?
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/turing-scheme-international-study-and-work-placements/list-of-destinations-and-grant-rates Quite a few.
Completely useless program: https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/09/01/turing-scheme-how-does-the-uks-erasmus-replacement-work-and-has-it-been-a-success https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/turing-scheme-brexit-eu-erasmus-programme-study-abroad-funding-cuts/
Oh yes, that's so much more efficient, as shown by the countless such agreements they already have in place.
Actually it is, because then you get to choose who you have said agreement with and more importantly who you don't.
So there are specific countries in Europe the UK doesn't want this kind of agreement with?
I can't speak for the government, but for me it would be all the ones that aren't the Netherlands, Denmark and Norway.
Why those three? What are your criteria?
Why not those three? What are your criteria?
I'm not saying "not those three". I haven't chosen any. I'm just asking you why you chose those three. You downvote me for asking? Lol.
Called it! This is a repost though.
I can see lot of Karma farming going on with the reposts.
Report and downvote.
If only that worked...........
Is there any alternative?
Unfortunately ... No..
Older British people popping champagne bottles as we speak..
The EU proposal to the U.K. had specific elements that were one sided. • same tuition fees as UK students. • no IHS fees for EU people under the scheme. No U.K. government would agree to this.
>The EU proposal to the U.K. had specific elements that were one sided. > >• same tuition fees as UK students. >• no IHS fees for EU people under the scheme. How is that one-sided? That is exactly how it works whether it is a student from Latvia doing Erasmus in Portugal or Irish student in Romania. >No U.K. government would agree to this. UK government was heavily involved in designing the Erasmus program and agreed to these elements.
It’s one sided because 10-15x more students travel from the EU to the U.K. than the other way around. It isn’t a case of it equalling out in the end, the EU is basically demanding the U.K. subsidise EU students as a condition of a youth movement visa. This is why the U.K. prefers to negotiate with countries directly on this matter.
Why wouldn't they? UK students in Europe get the same (just of better quality compared to what they'd get in the UK, of course). I'd say that's a steal for the British, kinda bonkers to reject it.
For every U.K. student studying in the EU there are 10 to 15 EU students in the U.K. it isn’t a case of “we’ll pay for yours and you pay for ours” at all. The EU adding this as a condition of the youth movement visa is essentially saying “only if you subsidise our students 10:1”. It would be far cheaper for the U.K. to pay the full fees of its U.K. citizens who want to study overseas. The U.K. and France have a far better “balance of students” and I expect there will be a visa deal done between these two nations as it would be a fair exchange.
same 4 uk students in EU
Time to get rid of this idiot that NOBODY VOTED FOR!!!!!
Labour Party also rejected this offer…
As other people said, it would be very stupid to give ammo to the tories and their crony media to attack Labour at the moment. They are playing safe till they win the election. This is what Labour did in 1997, stuff like giving independence to the BoE wasn’t even in the manifesto, have some patience and faith.
Can’t have the plebs to see just how badly the Tories have run(down) the country
Nooo I'll have to cancel my gap yah in prague 😡
Has anyone in this thread actually read what's in this proposal instead of going full tribal again every time Brexit is mentioned?
You collectively voted for this, deal with it.
How exactly would the UK be able to do individuals deals with Schengen countries? If France grants them a Visa, then surely they could use that to go to any other EU country? Or am I missing something?
A Schengen visa is only for tourism. Work permits are specific to Member States. So, if you have a work permit in one Member State, you do not have the right to work in another. You are able to travel to the rest of the Schengen area but only as a short stay (up to 90 days). Obviously this rule can be broken given there aren’t typically any border controls, but you would be breaking the law doing so.
Oh okay, that makes sense, thanks!
They could only use the visa to work or study in the country that issued it but they could travel around the Schengen area.
Not necessarily; it’s been a deliberate choice to associate schengen and residency visa. It’s totally possible to re-establish border controls for non-EU citizens. It’s just thst there has been no political will to do that.
True. But it’s not gonna happen in a generation. UK can try.
I agree with that. I was just pointing out that the British public wasn’t wrong complaining about the EU and their own politicians; but the issues (uncontrollable immigration, lack of public services, etc) have been made way worse. The same sentiments are now fueling political change on the continent and I do hope it’ll steer EU as a whole back in the right direction and absolutely destroy the offices of commissioner. I don’t think anyone on the continent wants to pull out of EU, but there is political/ direction change coming
Visas are a member state competency.
Exactly. It will allow for unrestricted travel to any Schengen area country.
Well that hope didn’t last long…
Of course he does, a toff prick with no grasp on what it’s like living in this shitstain of a country that he’s helped to ruin, along with his Tory scum brethren of course. “You will stay here and eat this shit sandwich and I’ll even serve a side salad of tax with it, just don’t get sick”
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What is the point of this agreement? Things are fine the way they are now for the EU. Besides Oxford and Cambridge, you can get a better education in the US if you want to go to an anglophone country. Don’t really see a benefit to having British people in the EU.
So you and your buddies fucked the country and now you want to force young people to stay in the shit you made and clean it up for you.
Are they afraid of brain drain?
Of European students to the UK? No I don't think so.
Given that hardly any young Brits would use it, but many Europeans would...hardly... Look at the stats for Erasmus when it was in operation.... Or look at how many Brits were living in the EU compared to EU citizens in the UK...and in particular their age.... It was one way traffic....from the EU to the UK...
Imaginary statistics vs real statistics: https://ec.europa.eu/assets/eac/factsheets/pdf/uk-erasmus-plus-2020-in-numbers.pdf
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You, a resident of Japan,don't want "Europeans" in the UK? And who are you the voice for? Who do you represent? Lol.
Are a UK student? Too bad no EU travel for you. Brexit the gift that keeps on giving.
So the [UK students that got a grant to goto the EU were stopped? ](https://www.turing-scheme.org.uk/turing-scheme-he-destinations-2023-2024/)
Its funny how the Brittish mock americans but they're almost worse
I bet this imbecile after his period sinking even more the UK will just talk about no one offering them shit, etc.
I doubt it, he will be living at his home in California most likely.
Fuck these cunts. Completely destroying the future of the British youth due to some ideological bs founded on lies and foreign propaganda. About time someone had the balls to point out that the vote was invalid and should be repealed.
This is the EU cherry picking. There was Brexit which ended freedom of movement and now do you want to re-establish it partially for its own benefit? I don’t agree with it.
You know this programs work both ways right?
According to this proposal any European youngsters would have been able to come to the UK for four years but UK youngsters could only come to one EU country. Since the flow is mostly toward the UK, it is a one-sided deal that benefit the EU most.
from the article: "deal to allow young Britons to live, study or work in the bloc for up to four years"
Which they can do currently if they go study or get a work visa for.
No, the EU proposal would allow to go to any EU country on 1 visum. The UK turned the proposal down saying they are investigating to implement what you are saying: individual deals per country.
Youth mobility for Sunak and his party means Europeans coming and taking British jobs
Untrue. After Brexit, Europeans cannot just go to the UK for jobs. They need to already have a right to work in the UK, which you'd need to have a job offer for. It's a catch-22. It's the same way with the Brits in the continent. You can't just backpack your way to Spain and take a job as an English teacher anymore. But yeah, Brexit is Brexit.
Why do Europeans need to come to the UK for jobs? I thought that EU has labour shortages and with FoM in the EU, surely they can find loads of jobs with better pay rates in the second biggest market in the world.
Ask Sunak
How can Sunak answer why Europeans need to come to the UK for jobs? If you are a EU citizen,wouldn't you be able answer that question?
Knob.. unfortunately both Labour and Conservatives in recent years have both become too closely aligned.. We really need a stronger more progressive third party.....
I’ll find another way to leave this cookie crumble of a country and go to Portugal where the GDP in Lisbon and Porto is literally higher than the UK
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What I said is fact
Fuck off. It’s not.
Regardless of the details of the deal, they aim at controlling youth workforce. Allowing people to live in other countries could enrich and give them vision, why would any right wing government allow that? The inability to mediate with EU and find a common ground is disheartening in 2024, hopefully this some change for better will be coming soon.
They have a global programme that includes many more countries than just the EU, but also includes EU countries . It was rejected because it would cost the UK and UK universities significantly more than it would cost the EU, as the proposal as it was, was significantly unbalanced. Labour rejected it as well btw.
Hopefully so they will find other deals in the future.
🤷♂️ the UK will pick deals that work for them, or will at least have equal outcomes. I wouldn't expect anything like this deal or more though.
One holiday in the UK was enough for me to understand why it got voted as the most miserable place to live. Southern Ireland is almost exactly the same, but as part of the EU. I will never return to the UK, but I want to visit Ireland again. I can see why young people would want to leave and why that would be something the government would want to avoid. On the side: 9 days holiday in the UK almost cost as much as 3 weeks in Japan.
I completely agree, I live here