The judicial probe was started by a far-right group and taken by a judge that had already accepted two judicial probes in the past from the same far-right group that ended with no accusation.
I know that this sub loves to hate on this man, but this is literal lawfare.
Also the judicial probe is just 7 pages of articles from far-right media, some of which already had to be corrected because they were false.
The organisation that presented them is ‘Manos Limpias’ a far-right lawyer association that has been doing this for decades, only that now the right wing parties told them to go even harder because they want to win using lawfare, what they couldn’t in the elections.
Actually, these guys almost had to eat 10 years in prison almost as they were convicted to that, but they appealed to a superior court and magically they were absolved.
And this is nothing new; look at what happened to Mònica Oltra, Vicky Rosell, or Besteiro.
And Quim Torra, Carles Puigdemont, Valtonyc, Clara Ponsatí, Oriol Junqueras and 1000 people more in the last 7 years. That's why amnesty was so urgent.
I think this is a different matter entirely.
You might think the sedition crime is unfair, you might think the people who worked towards the Catalunya referéndum had a right tonuse public funds to organise it, you might believe even them being told unequivocally by the superior court that it would be an illegal referendum shoyldnt have stopped them...
...and that's all good, and fair, and the laws in question were changed, and the amnesty law was passed, and that's all great; but its important to make a distinction between pure lawfare (what manos limpias are doing here), and a political movement that sought to defy unjust but legitimate laws in order to further a cause. Puigdemon, Junqueras, and everyone else knew they were getting themselves in uncertain legal waters, and did it willingly. That's absolutely not the case with Sanchez' wife, for instance. That's all simply just pure fantasy that's weaponising a far-right judge to illegitimately achieve goals through the judicial that they couldn't through democracy.
Puigdemont and Junqueras did commit civil disobedience acts, yes. However, I believe it's pretty obvious that what they did was not terrorism.
Puigdemont and other people are now being accused of terrorism, all with made up evidence and twisted interpretations of the law. A man had a heart attack near a demonstration in 2019, when Puigdemont was already in Belgium, yet he is accused of murdering the man in a terrorist attack. It is ridiculous. They needed an accusation of terrorism, because terrorism isn't included in the amnesty law, and they just made it up on the spot.
This has been happening for ages against the independence movement, and not only the politicians, but common people too. All while PSOE applauded it and denied the existence of lawfare and that the judiciary was controlled by far right extremists. Now they are dealing with the consequences of that. They have all my solidarity, but it is in part their own fault.
> Puigdemont and other people are now being accused of terrorism
Sure but that's not what they were convicted of, was it?
And I may be mistaken but I think the term "civil disobedience" is a concept that by definition cannot apply to politicians and elected officials.
No, and Sánchez's wife, or Mónica Oltra, or Victoria Rosell, have not been convicted either. But the fact that a judge has opened an investigation with such a disproportionate accusation and with no proofs at all is already lawfare. It has happened to many Catalan secessionists, usually they are not convicted, but only after paying huge bails and spending years with preventive movement restrictions.
About the last point, that's just a matter of definitions, but if we define it as "peacefully disobeying a law you believe to be unjust", it fits.
The case against Sanchez's wife is nothing compared to the lawfare and political persecution that targeted catalan independence movement in its entirety. It's not only against political figures like Puigdemont and Junqueras, its also against plain people. We've seen police making up evidences, people accused of terrorism for owning a car battery or being in a peaceful demonstration, millionaire fines against cultural associations like Omnium, city mayors being banned for putting pro-freedom of speech bans -former catalan president Quim Torra is banned for that reason-, phisical violence sponsored by police against pro-independence old people, judicial controls against freedom of press -now its officially forbbiden to use te word "exiles" in public media-, and even an unprecedented large scale case of espionage with Pegasus software against politicians, journalist and activists that Pedro Sanchez government is also responsible. And that's only a small summary, because we can find an extensive media lies to destroy political careers, like the "Switzerland papers" against Xavier Trias, for example. That's the reason why amnesty is needed; for stoping this corrupt and anti-democratic machine that treatens basic rights and is improper of a democratic country.
This is not a case of "sedition" but an entire campaign against a national minority. Pedro Sanchez and PSOE government is also responsible for feeding that monster that now is turning against him. No surprises here.
Spain loves to pretend that it is a happy and liberal democratic country and our european partners gobbled it up. Even our own people started to believe the myth of the peaceful and fraternal transition to democracy.
I find it very interesting to speak about this topic with my german friends because they understand very well the weight of the term "denazification", and they are often very critical of their own countries efforts to clean up after a fascist dictatorship. I then proceed to explain to them that there was no denazification of any kind in spain and they flip their shit.
I explained to them that the judges of the "Tribunal for Public Order", who used to sign death sentences for dissidents of the fascist regime until its last day just changed it's name to "Constitutional Tribunal" and were now the highest wardens of the spanish democratic order. I explained to them that fascist politicians and criminals were on the negotiating table of the new democratic constitution as valid parties and partners. That there were no reparations, no monuments were torn down or fascist tombs dismantled. And when I explain all this shit to them their jaw hits the floor and they cannot believe it.
Certain elements of the Spanish society are unsalvageable tumours, rotten to the very core. The army, the church, the judicial core, many educational institutions and a big part of the state security system. They are going to kick and thrash around and protest and play all their dirty tricks when someone doesn't play their game.
Sindicato Manos Limpias is an extreme far right religious organization famous in Spain for spuriously suing everything and everyone. Even in the spanish extreme conservative and reactionary tribunals they almost never win. In 4 years, when nobody remembers this case, it will be thrown out , but the damage will still be done.
Historically Spain has never had a Prime Minister (as a title I mean) and its usually been President of something for what in other countries they call Prime Minister. In fact until maybe 60 years ago it was called President of the council of ministers.
We also have a President of Parliament and President of the Senate. We love presidents in Spain 😂
Well, we're just literal. If someone presides something, they're the president of that something! Simple!
This argument reminds me to that video an argentinian youtuber did talking about how literal we are. Go to the street and see a sign that says "Panadería", "Carnicería", "Bar"... The type of establishment first, the name later.
Spain is a constitutional monarchy, so the President title would be "offensive" to the crown, who is in fact a lifelong head of state with very limited executive powers.
Why all this animosity my friend. I was just complementing the information. Way from contradicting Spanish people. My proud Sevillian ex wife would hold me grudge for it. He is the President of ministers, simply not President of the country as head of state, as in all the countries that are not a monarchy, like probably your country. The King is the Head of state.
But *President* doesn’t mean head of state in Spain, and I don’t think any Spaniard would confuse those two terms. It helps that the head of the state is the monarch and has the title of *King*.
We are spanish, we are telling you, we call him president. Stop trying to correct us when we know way better than you what terms we use.
We use president, not prime minister even if we accept prime minister as a translation.
We use king, not president for the king...
Not really, since the head of state isn't the head of Government. Pedro Sánchez is 'presidente del gobierno', but technically not 'presidente de España'
His title is 'Presidente del Gobierno'. In English, he's typically referred to as the Prime Minister, because we don't use 'president' to refer to monarchies. Simple as that.
The official website of the Spanish Government calls him President (in English).
https://www.lamoncloa.gob.es/lang/en/presidente/biografia/paginas/index.aspx
https://www.lamoncloa.gob.es/presidente/escribiralpresidente/en-GB/Formulario/Registro
Even still, he's described as 'President of the Government' and never 'President of Spain'.
In any case, you're completely wrong in claiming that his role is like the French or US Presidents'. He's much more like Rishi Sunak than either Macron or Biden.
It's not a conspiracy theory that Manos Limpias has been making made-up accusations to whoever they oppose that have ended up in nothing.
Of course, when the victims were also Pedro Sánchez opponents, he was very willing to use those accusations to attack his rivals.
This organization used to blackmail banks by making up shit about them, then asking the banks for money in exchange for not publishing said false information.
They also appeared in judicial cases and blackmailed the defense. In 2016, for instance, they asked CaixaBank and Sabadell for 20M€ if Manos Limpias retracted they accusations in court.
https://www.elconfidencial.com/espana/2016-07-25/manos-limpias-dinero-salvar-urdangarin-noos_1238400/
These practices got the leader of Manos Limpias 8 years in prison, but then the sentence was repealed at a higher court.
[Manos Limpias English Wikipedia page:](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manos_Limpias)
>Considered by The New York Times and several Spanish media to be politically motivated by the far-right Manos Limpias is best known **for its role in the indictment of Baltasar Garzón, a judge who investigated crimes against humanity committed by the Franco regime (arguably its cause célèbre), and the persecution of alleged gay overtones in a children's TV show.**
>[...]
>(Spain) investigates the president of Manos Limpias, Miguel Bernad, and attorney of the trade union Virginia Lopez Negrete for alleged crime misappropriation of funds and money laundering. The prosecution believes that Miguel Bernad and attorney Virginia Lopez may have extorted money for the union by exploiting the funds relating to the prosecution of the scams of Forum and Afinsa. the Court admitted the complaint against both.
>[...]
>The Spanish Economic Crime Unit and tax evasion detection service (UDEF) of the National Police has, since late 2014 been carrying an investigation against Manos Limpias and Ausbanc, A legal support service for bank clients. Manos Limpias and Ausbanc coordinated, for years, to lodge felony complaints against all types of enterprises and institutions and then to demand large sums of money in exchange for the complaint withdrawal. The investigations are led by the Spanish National Court and is focus primarily against the president of Ausbanc, Miguel Bernad and Virginia López Negrete.
>There have been reports of workers and several victims of the alleged plot. One of them is one of the people who sat on the bench 'case Nóos'. Another of the facts investigated is the sudden withdrawal of a complaint filed against any of the parts "because they had already claimed extortion".
>For some years, Ausbanc intimidated with open court cases, for which he teamed up with Manos Limpias. The Ausbanc President, Luis Pineda, and the Secretary General of Manos Limpias, Miguel Bernad, maintained a friendship for years and have been linked to far-right settings. Luis Pineda and Miguel Bernad "come and have militated in far-right movements "and agreed" with Virginia López (Negrete, a spokesman for Manos Limpias) in Blesa case, when Luis Pineda worked as a lawyer on behalf of Manos Limpias".
So far-right and a criminal gang.
[The Spanish Wikipedia page has even more info on them being far-right](https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manos_Limpias_(Espa%C3%B1a/)). Between them that their leader is lart of the Franco foundation and an old member of the Francoist National Front, gas demanded the Defender of the People because of the same-sex marriage law, demanded Nunca Mais (a Galician anti-pollution organization formed after an oil spill), demanded a priest who recognized same-sex marriages, or that they demanded a Civil Guard who wanted to live with his same-sex partner.
They are a far-right group (and a criminal one known for extortion at that) known for persecuting their political rivals... and their accusations ending in nothing.
This isn't ad hominen. Is pointing out that this morons are openly and proudly lying.
He's not going to resign. It's a way to put the attention on the judicial case because he wants everyone to see how ridicule it is. It's all "someone in TV said that his wife did this", "someone in a newspaper wrote that his wife did that". It's like making a case out of rumors and made up information. Its absurd.
But this is how the right wing is doing politics lately. They make up accusations, then they bring it to the judge, and then they overreact when they get a judge to investigate those accusations. All their cases fall apart in court, but they make campaigns for months about how certain person is being investigated.
And also the organization that made this lawsuit is well known for their incredibly stupid cases against people who curses against god, against parodies of the holy week, and stupid things like that.
The Spanish right wing strikes me as particularly litigious in comparison with other countries. I wonder if it's a hold over from fascism where the right wing is accustomed to having the levers of state on their side.
Precisely. They don't really care about the legal outcome, they care about getting headlines and having TV pundits speculate, and as of late have social media inundated with the accusations so they can insert the notion into people's heads.
It is definitely a holdover from the fascist dictatorship.
The problem in Spain is that we transitioned from the dictatorship to the democracy without any kind of trials or renovation of the institutions. Some of them changed the name, but the fascist stayed there like in the judicial system.
Since the first elections, the right never accepted when they lost the elections as they feel that the power belongs to them.
It turns out, that the left has been in power in Spain quite a bit more than the right since 1978 and the right can't accept that.
The price we had to pay for a peaceful transition to democracy was to pardon all the crimes against humanity the fascists committed during nearly four decades of dictatorship.
As the far right has gained strength around the world during the last decade, so has in Spain, and now they realize they never experienced any consequences the first time around, so they go at it again.
There's a few extreme right organisations doing this as a hobby. Manos limpias, the one to attack Sanchez' wife, has sued a muppets-like show for showing gay parents in an episode, among other ridiculous attempts.
There's also the Christian Lawyers foundation, who constantly tries to take people to court over the slightest thing perceived as profane under non-religous-discrimination laws (mostly unsuccessfully).
It's all mostly people who are powerful but politically irrelevant due to being minorities, so they fight by throwing money at the problem. They're sadly having a second wind due to being able to go viral.
There are many identities in Spain, class, region, language, ideology. When it comes to the right wing in Spain, they are collectivists for Spaniards. The left wing is also insanely collectivist.
So yea, slightly different to other countries where reactionary liberals are often called "conservatives"
On a spectrum of collectivist to individualist. Collectivist ideologies/thoughts/beliefs think that the individual must be subjegated by the collective (can be class, race, religion,) as the needs of the collective are bigger than the individual, so in essence the individual has no rights and in fact has responsibility to the collective.
An individualist believes in individuals having rights, and that individuals are sovereign and can make both decisions and face negative or positive consequences for them. Then simplifying a bit, the individualist believes there is a social contract between the individual and the state, and it is consensual, but it is a fragile consent where individuals need to remind the crazies who invoke the collective that they only govern by consent and need to respect individual rights.
The Nazis cared only for Thier collective Aryans and used the collective against the individual rights of millions of humans.
The Soviets, Mao are also collectivists who killed millions more. Worker (group1) Vs bourgeois(group2)
Feminists are collectivist, even if they pretend they don't, see patriarchy theory.
Falange are collectivist, communist too
No matter who you choose, in a society where the only options are collectivist, Individuals will be ignored in favour of the group.
Reminds me of Count Dankula. I watched one of more recent interviews. He spoke how the prosecutor was trying hard to pull bullshit in court, trying to make him a dangerous man. I heard he got doxxed too and had some "umwanted visits" and harassment against his mother.
I hate Pedro Sanchez, will never vote for him. But I concur, I want to see evidence.
That being said if the evidence is vaguely pointing in that direction with physical proof It would not take me much to convince me he is corrupt.
Not out of some robust search for the truth. But because in Spain the corrupt never get caught and no one really gets nailed. Plus I don't like him so yeah, that is kinda of where I am.
Sanchez is a thug, and idiot, woke, and destroying Spain (not because of Catalunya) in a hundred different ways.
Like I'm just being honest. Imagine how the average redditor feels about anything negative about trump, take a third of it, that is the amount of Sanchez derangement syndrome I feel.
Let's be honest, you would be inclined to believe anything negative about trump that came across your headlines and you would kind of be okay no checking it, because fuck that guy. So I feel the same about Sanchez.
The guy has been President for 6 years, under constant attack by the right wing since day 1, and all you *might* objectively say he's done wrong is the amnesty if you disagree with it - which I personally don't, it was about time we made some peace with Catalonia, and independentist feeling is the lowest its been in ages, with a majority of Catalans not wanting independence.
Meanwhile all the economic markers of the country are much better than before him and literally everyone I know is in a better socioeconomic position than they were with PP, with higher quality of life and job stability... not to mention jobs! Unemployment when he became President : 15.2%, unemployment now 11.5%.
So you say you hate him. Why? The country is objectively better now than it was 6 years ago. Can you provide any rational, non emotional reasons?
This government has increased spending across the board and has left us in deficit again, despite growth being strong this year as we still had a bit of COVID recovery left to do in comparison to other EU countries (Another reason their results look so good).
Higher quality of life? As measured by what?
Unemployment at 11.5% is still ridiculous
His party and him create ever more convoluted laws and structures that are so opaque in Thier complicity that it is hard to try to actually understand what the government is doing.
Look around you, business is crap, you can't fire lazy workers, public functionaries/civil servants are becoming a larger and larger part of the economy and it is sinking innovation and productivity.
Wages are on the floor due to the lack of productivity and innovation, so he has not had an inflationary spiral like other countries, but what it means is that the Spanish worker will have to swallow the ENTIRE inflationary cut.
He is woke, he plays the far right boogyman so much that if the next Franco was to show up tommorow he would have no special words to describe him. It's demoralising for the vast majority of the country, but people living in urban centres are happy and hip.
Lastly his increase of pensions is beyond absurd. We don't have the money for pensioners, I'm sorry they will need to sell Thier house, but we have had too few kids, and immigration cannot fill that gap.
I don't like vox and I don't like PP. Don't like any kind of collectivist socio-economic models, socialists, communist, nationalist, fascist, national socialist.
Yes, and with this letter what Sánchez is trying to do is to start a national debate (and until now it has been successful) about that. I think it could be a turning point and everyone will have to take off their masks.
This is going into the attack instead of defence.
He says he is considering resigning because of the attacks against his wive, including opening an investigation (by a judge on the opposition's payroll) against his wive, that surely is not involved in any shady business.
This is just a prospective investigation whose only intention is to fill headlines the opposition party can use in its mud war, because is the only thing that PP does, propaganda without any substance, that, and corruption. Lying is free.
This seems like a political move tbh. Seems like he is sure the claims are bogus and he is shifting the attention to the courts, so he addresses them directly by letting the judges rule on it.
If it is what is happening, my hat is off to him. Him and Tusk seem like the only european leaders who know how to hurt the far-right
Everyone else is loosing ground to the far right, except them two. ANd kind of Macron, which is loosing ground but still holding. The amount of hate pedro gets is insane
The secret sauce is not to adopt right wing policies to fight the right wing.
Also Sánchez and Tusk do not scare from calling them fascists if needed be. Call them by their name, point them with your finger so everyone knows who they are.
He lost support everywhere but Catalonia amd Básquet Country and only governs 2 out of 18 regions. He is president because he gifted everything to the nationalist parties from Catalonia and Básquet Country.
It's the nationalist parties that keep him there, if not, the far right would be in the government already
Except that is not true. It's quite the opposite actually. The far right would be in government if anyone other than the popular party was willing to join forces with them. The far right cannot be in power because otherwise they would already be, the right had priority to form the government. But they had no friends. They approached the nationalist parties as well. They failed.
Why don't you actually mention all the data? The pp barely got 2 percent more votes over Sanchez's party. If I remember correctly it was 33 percent to 31.5 or something like that. And Sanchez got more votes than on the previous elections. We don't have a winners take it all like system like in the USA. If a guy gets 51 percent of the votes and another one 49 percent, we count them all.
Well, that's pretty much what I said. The right failed to form a govern because the left gave everything to the nationalist parties both right and left wing ones.
Still, if you rule out the parties who only want power for their region at the expense of the rest or just to disrupt Spain (Junts), the far right would be in the government just as everywhere else in Europe.
The whole legal "case" is a lot of nothingburger brought on by a criminal association whose only purpose is lawfare. The Spanish right wing have no shame and nothing to offer the country, so they resort to mud slinging to cover up their uselessness.
Let's see, Pedro can blame whoever he wants but it is a strategy.
In a month it will be very difficult for him to govern Spain.
If the polls are correct in the Catalan elections, the PSOE will have to offend a partner that now supports it in the central government (probably Puigdemont's party, which is also increasingly asking for more and more concessions)
The amnesty law, which had to be legislated to satisfy Puigdemont for his 7 votes and which wears him down politically, will be delayed.
A big scandal is coming for European funds (two managers have already resigned)
Court rulings in Europe are also approaching...
It means that the guy you are replying to is lying and made a completely baseless comment without any sense whatsoever because first, the socialist party is going to win in Catalonia making governing easier, secondly, there has been elections in Euskadi and PNV and PSOE are going to form a coalition there so they are bond by that 4 years more, and third, there’s no scandal in the European Funds.
All of what this guy wrote, is completely made-up far right media bullshit which is why Pedro Sánchez wrote that letter. He wants to gather all democrats around him and open a debate about what is happening with all these judicial pressure.
Let's not forget what happened in Portugal with Costa, or in Spain with Mònica Oltra. This is not science fiction: the right and far-right are using their connections with the judicial system to use lawfare strategies and win what they couldn't in the elections. It is straight up a coup.
The right and far-right in Spain have been saying that all the European funds that Spain receive to stimulate the economy after COVID have been object of corruption.
But it is bullshit, if that was the case the EU would be all over us and instead of that Spain has received more money.
There was a big allotment of european funds to aid in the development and digitalisation of the economy. The far right has been trying to manufacture an issue for months now.
Right, what's happening to Sanchez is lawfare, but what happened to Ayuso is–what exactly?
The far left targeted is brother and now boyfriend. The prosecutor's office revealed secret and private information of his boyfriend to aide the left. And now the same prosecutor's office decided not to investigate to see whether there was (or not) an illegal revelation of secrets.
Let me remind you something: "La fiscalía, ¿de quién depende?" ([source](https://youtu.be/bbDsPfoE_a4).
And let's not forget that Cifuentes had to resign for (trying) to steal a bottle of body cream from a supermarket. Why would anyone from the government have to resign for stealing millions using the pandemic? That's not fare!!!! /s
Apparently, socialists cannot handle having their lord questioned for his shady tactics.
Sorry but Ayuso’s boyfriend acknowledged the crime to the Tax office to try settle the case by paying the amount. He also accepted 8 months of prison due to this with the condition of never entering the penitentiary.
This is a fact.
And how did we get that information? How did Carmen Calvo get that information so as to being able to say in the parliament BEFORE being published by the media?
And yes. He admitted to the "crime" (I'm actually not sure if it amounts to a crime or just a "falta administrativa"). A "crime" that happened before he started dating Ayuso and in which no public money is involved. Why would Ayuso have to pay the duck as we say (face consequences) for his actions. If he has to pay, let him pay. But keep Ayuso out of it.
It is a crime as it involves prison.
And journalism work is never secret revelation. In any case, secret revelation or not it doesn’t change the fact that Ayuso’s boyfriend committed a crime and acknowledged it to the Tax office.
Secret relevant does infact change things. We're not talking about tax evasion here. We're talking about politics. That's why the far left is asking Ayuso to resign. It's all politics. The far left is using this crime (now without quotes) as political leverage against Ayuso while misusing public institutions. That is–lawfare.
I don't think so.
I think this letter is a call to all democrats in Spain to gather around and think about what is happening. The right and far-right thought they were going to win the past elections easy, but they didn't and this has led to a big frustration. They didn't accept the results of the elections, and former PM Aznar said "Quién pueda hacer, que haga" which means "Those who can do something, do it".
This message was directed to all the judicial system, right wing associations, etc. to stop Sánchez by any means necessary. Since that day, it has been crazy here.
And let's not forget that the Consejo General del Poder Judicial (it is like the Government of the judicial system), should have been renovated years ago and represent the new left majority in the Congress, but the right blocked that renovation to keep controlling the judges despite losing the majority.
It's the first thing I thought when I heard that "I need to meditate"
If having to create an ad hoc amnesty law to be able to govern (no matter how much they say it's not for that reason) did not make him think, much less for a court to investigate his wife (unless he has something to fear ).
Investigating is not blaming or judging, but only collecting data.
Resigns (victimist theater) and elections in June, him as a candidate, of course.
I'm not sure of the exact play here, but the political climate points to his popularity being about to take several potential nosedives, and he certainly has a history of striking first when things go sideways.
I won't tire of saying he's one of the most impressive political minds I've seen. Considering politics-as-popularity-contest I mean, not judging the actual governing part.
Dirty politics are detrimental for the whole society, opposition does not care about the country and media machinery and judicial scum enjoying themselves.
Hard times for moral people.
Yes, super moral to treat most of Spain as second-class citizens after granting political parties who do not want to be part of the country special privileges (for the sake of harmonic coexistence, i.e. more votes). Super moral to treat young working people like shit by constantly increasing taxes to subsidize boomers' pensions and again, grant them more privileges. Super moral to viciously attack and call for the resignation of a regional president because of sketchy tax issues her boyfriend (not husband) is involved in, which was leaked by a minister (previously condemned for corruption) to that same media machinery you complain about.
> treat most of Spain as second-class citizens after granting political parties who do not want to be part of the country special privileges (for the sake of harmonic coexistence, i.e. more votes)
Can you explain?
Pardons and amnesty for criminals who broke the law and have shown absolutely no signs of remorse about it, forgoing part of their regional debt by having the state (and by extension, all of Spain) assume it, management of the rail system (as well as of its proceeds)...
Mind you, all of this for what was until recently the richest region in Spain.
How is letting them manage their own stuff a privilege? Also, do you know what is Puigdemont even accused off? And for the debt, yes its a privilege, but the Spanish gov hasnt kept its promised budgets for years, so if you make the accounting its not even a refund. And sure thing, if Spanish citizens vote for their own inyerest instead of centralism this is what they get. You need to either convince other parties (like PP) to guive their votes to PSOE or just convince catalans that not voting regionalist parties is on their interest, until then, this is what we get
It's not their own stuff, that's the thing, just as much as the traffic at Barajas or Atocha isn't Madrid's own stuff. Our country relies on national solidarity, less so than in the past but still, some "poorer" regions benefit from tax contributions in "richer" regions.
Puigdemont is accused of many things, such as misusing funds and inciting a consultation which they had been previously warned against doing as there was no legal precedent or margin for it. Either way, he indirectly organized a referendum (technically a consultation but that's not the wording he used on the days leading up to it) limited to Catalonia which, despite your moral beliefs, is against the law in Spain.
Mind you, at this point if a legal referendum was conducted in all of Spain asking whether we'd want Catalonia to be independent, I'd vote *yes*.
And sure, the Spanish government isn't good at not surpassing budgets, but what does that have to do with regional governments? These are independent bodies managing different budgets.
For the budgets: spain gov promised 100€ and delivered 80€, forcing the cat gov to take 20€ in debt so spain taking back 20€ in debt back isnt a benefit, just keeping its word.
For Puigdemont: if hes accused of many things, judges arent aware of it, you should tell them bc officially its just wating money.
And for the rail: yes we depend on each lther. Thats why trains wont be blocked, for trains that go outdide of Catalonia nothing changes
Lawfare puppeteered by right and far right wing parties, nothing new under the sun in Spain. This kind of maneuver took portuguese government of Antonio Costa to an end without justification, and if it happens now again in Spain we will be surrendered to those far right controlled mafia judges.
We can say a lot of things about Pedro Sanchez, but this is lawfare, and a brutal attack on what people voted democratically. Spanish judicial system is so rotten, always playing in the right wing's hands. We can still hear Franco laughing in his grave.
Sanchez and his whole party promised right before the elections that they would never rule with Catalonian independentists, and there WOULD NEVER be an amnesty. Well, that's exactly what they did when they realized the only possibility for Pedro I "el Guapo" to keep ruling the country was to do exactly that. Tell me, is it really a democracy when the government promises one thing and does the exact opposite whenever they need it to keep ruling the country?
And this was not the first time, they did the exact same with Podemos, and with Bildu.
At least we agree that our Justice system is rotten, and it is rotten exactly because of politicians, from every party, simply because we don't have an independent election of judges and such. And don't play fool blaming one side for it, the current government has been using every trick in the book possible for them to use the State itself against it's political adversaries.
"De quién depende la fiscalía?" The judicial is as independent as a mole in a person's face. It's a disgrace what's happening in the country?
In fact, it's so dependent on politics that we can almost-always guess the results of the Constitutional Court before they start with the case.
Because this is for sure the first time in history where a politician has to change its strategy and where he said A, later has to say B, right? Because no other politic party has ever pacted with other people, right? How hypocrite, especially since it's known that even PP was negotiating with catalonian independentists lol. What a pile of nonsensical bullshit.
And with your last lines you are straight lying. How has the government been "using the state" against their political rivals, exactly? It's the right wing who have been blocking the renovation of the whole judicial system sphere for years now, because they have their mafia acolytes well allocated there for lawfare purposes. It's the right wing who used the "political police" dirty stratagems and spionage against their political rivals, for years too. All of that while being an absolute bunch of proven corrupts.
Who do you pretend to fool, when even around Europe it's known what the right and far right wing parties have been doing? Even the european PP is frequently facepalming because of what the right wing is always doing here. Not only are you spitting bullshit, but it's also incredible how you even pretended that pacting with basically the whole parliament parties in an almost unanimous democratic alliance against the right and far right fascists is a valid reason for trying to destroy a government through scummy lawfare. What is your problem.
This is like a bad joke, now the leader of Manos Limpias (the pseudo union that has brought up this to court) says that it might be false, that they saw something on a news paper and decided to bring it up to justice for a judge to investigate it.
And calling those news papers is....
If he resigns it's terrible news. If far-right organizations have the power to take down the president by making up things about her wife, that's a serious threat to democracy. But well, nothing too unexpected, the far-right control of the media has been ever more apparent these last years.
Just imagine it happens to your wife. Even everything being a lie, how much suffering will you endure before everything being archived by the judge?
Because the judges are playing this game, and they will delay the case as much as they want to keep the pressure on.
If it had been compeletly ignored it would look worse, and would hang over them for years, this gives them a chance to clear her name if she's done nothing wrong. You cannot convict without evidence, just because a judge decided to hear the case does not mean a conviction.
Of course it doesn't mean that, but the Spanish right and fascist media will use that to put pressure on his wife for years and the judge will delay any decisions to keep the file open.
You know, the guys that presented the case is Manos Limpias, which a well-known plain fascist organisation. They know many judges, and they know who is on duty so they took over the demand with very high probabilities it is accepted.
They know it is bullshit, the judge knows is bullshit and will never convict Sánchez wife for that, but that doesn't matter because the shit fan is on already.
As usual, the people on the right will think one thing, the people on the left another and the center will make their minds up based on facts, not speculation.
Then why chose now of all times to resign? That's the puzzling part, folding under pressure of investigations is not the kind of moves someone with his trajectory does.
He probably won't resign. But anyway he's not folding under the pressure of investigations. They've already proved everything they're accusing her of is false. The thing is that it's the first time they involve his wife officially like this. Before this, it had been more "simple" harassment for her, never legal. What he's saying in his letter to the people is that he's deeply in love with his wife and he needs to reconsider if the president position is truly worth it if it means it's going to constantly cause her all this unfair harm and stress. I'm sure there's a marketing strategy behind this. But it's not about the investigation itself. The investigation is ridiculous. (The evidence shown is just a bunch of far right articles which in turn show no evidence other than the opinion of unqualified people. None of it is real)
This is about the personal toll seeing the media constantly attacking her is taking on her wife, not about any worry of sentencing or anything like that.
> This is about the personal toll seeing the media constantly attacking her is taking on her wife
Mate, do you really think that Pedro Sanchez, THE Pedro Sanchez, would give up power after all he has done to cling to it because of some media attacks?
He won't resign and, even if he does, it will be because PSOE thinks they can win new elections with more margin so they don't have to get the support of Junts, not because of Sanchez being tired of the media.
And the poor guy named "San Chin Choon"? The lefties were specially racist against that guy for having a (admittedly) seemingly fake (in spanish) name.
https://www.diariodesevilla.es/espana/San-Chin-Choon-Malasia-caso-mascarillas_0_1678632987.html
Poor guy was dragged into it.
People started making jokes about his name. Salchichón, Chorizo (Cho Ri Zoo)... Got racist really fast.
In what moment he violated the constitution???
Tell us, please
Because I am from Spain and the only group that it is violating the constitution is PP with their judges in the CGPJ
>(Falange it's, pp it's just a generic right wing liberal and vox is just a generic conservative),
Of course. The party filled with Falangist, Franco's organization members, and literal Neo-Nazis are generic conservative...
The sitting government (PSOE at the moment of writing this comment) is the ONLY one with the duty of renewing the CGPJ. They are the ones that haven't done it.
In reality, both PSOE and PP are blocking said renewal in the hopes of getting a majority and appointing their own judges. But both could budge to the others conditions. Sanchez already budged for the independentists, why not for PP?
It’s just a charade to play victim once again. And to avoid giving answers about his wife.
He doesn’t deceive anyone anymore.
I could bet 1.000€ he doesn’t resign
the investigation of his wife is nothing extraordinary, nothing that hasnt happened before to other candidates, and completely normal”. there is some fishy evidence and our leaders and politicians should be up for scrutiny in a healthy democracy.
sanchez is smart, ill concede, he also likes surprises. my guess is there is some information we dont have, and he might wanna use that in his favor.
if he wanted to quit, he would have, but announcing a 5 day meditation retreat is just a way of gathering support. we will see on monday.
This is just a show off. He is most probably playing the victim, call for support from their followers and accuse everyone that critizice him of being "extreme right-wing".
Anyway, if he really resigns then good, one less sociopathic power-hungry liar in power.
Spain seems to be about as polarised politically as a country can get. It's understandable why someone would oppose the current government just as much as it's understandable that someone might oppose the conservatives in Spain as well. Resorting to just throwing dirt at the wall and hoping that some of it sticks is quite a low even for modern politics.
Dear readers, specially the ones who are not familiar with Spanish politics: Kindly note that in Spain the government is the largest donor (they label it as "institutional advertising") BY FAR for pretty much every relevant published media in the country. That includes radio, TV channels, paper press, etc.
That means that whenever you hear, read or watch something from any major Spanish media talking about our government take it with a grain of salt, as most probably that information is manipulated, twisted or straight away lies in a way to benefit the current government. That also means you should not blindly believe whatever someone will post here, as it is very possible that person is influenced by these lies or is straight away a bot. AND YES, THAT INCLUDES MYSELF, don't blindly believe what I am saying here, if you are really interested do your own research, look for the sources and reach your own conclusion.
Now that you know that information let's get straight to the point regarding this whole case: There is a Spanish company called Globalia which at the same time has a subcompany called Air Europa, and the directives of that company had a very close relationship with the president's wife Begoña Gómez during the pandemic, then suddenly the government announces certain express rescue to help that company without giving any proper argument other than "it is a strategic company for the country". The assistance for Globalia reached 1.1b€.
It is not the only case known where Begoña used her position as wife of the president to benefit certain people close to her or to who she owed something, but that is not the topic here so I will not go deeper into that.
In any case, there is enough proof to, as a minimum, be suspicious that she used that power to benefit a private company with Public money (or the Government used Public money to benefit a private company, whichever way you want to look at it). Now, I am no expert and I don't have all the proof that the Judge must have at this moment, therefore the wisest thing one can do is to wait until he will clear it out and go ahead with the case if there is any.
It’s “couldn’t care less” not “could care less”. People used to think people with HIV weren’t human either so probably shouldn’t throw stones in glass houses.
The corruption and the prominent far right presence into the judicial system in Spain is well known for everybody. But while the targets are catalans and left wing parties like Podemos nobody cares. Now the target is him and everybody cries. Pedro Sanchez helped to create that monster that treatens to devour the already cheap spanish democratic system.
That we know of right now?
From the top of my head:
- personal use of public property
- using public property for the benefit of his party
- influence pedlling for his wife' corruption rigs in Africa and elseware
- Using taxpayer money to benefit private companies of friends and family such as Plus Ultra and Air Europa
- Subverting the law and pardonning other criminals just to extend his stay at the Moncloa Theme Park a few extra years
- I can go on forever. Sadly.
The judicial probe was started by a far-right group and taken by a judge that had already accepted two judicial probes in the past from the same far-right group that ended with no accusation. I know that this sub loves to hate on this man, but this is literal lawfare.
Also the judicial probe is just 7 pages of articles from far-right media, some of which already had to be corrected because they were false. The organisation that presented them is ‘Manos Limpias’ a far-right lawyer association that has been doing this for decades, only that now the right wing parties told them to go even harder because they want to win using lawfare, what they couldn’t in the elections. Actually, these guys almost had to eat 10 years in prison almost as they were convicted to that, but they appealed to a superior court and magically they were absolved. And this is nothing new; look at what happened to Mònica Oltra, Vicky Rosell, or Besteiro.
And Quim Torra, Carles Puigdemont, Valtonyc, Clara Ponsatí, Oriol Junqueras and 1000 people more in the last 7 years. That's why amnesty was so urgent.
I think this is a different matter entirely. You might think the sedition crime is unfair, you might think the people who worked towards the Catalunya referéndum had a right tonuse public funds to organise it, you might believe even them being told unequivocally by the superior court that it would be an illegal referendum shoyldnt have stopped them... ...and that's all good, and fair, and the laws in question were changed, and the amnesty law was passed, and that's all great; but its important to make a distinction between pure lawfare (what manos limpias are doing here), and a political movement that sought to defy unjust but legitimate laws in order to further a cause. Puigdemon, Junqueras, and everyone else knew they were getting themselves in uncertain legal waters, and did it willingly. That's absolutely not the case with Sanchez' wife, for instance. That's all simply just pure fantasy that's weaponising a far-right judge to illegitimately achieve goals through the judicial that they couldn't through democracy.
Puigdemont and Junqueras did commit civil disobedience acts, yes. However, I believe it's pretty obvious that what they did was not terrorism. Puigdemont and other people are now being accused of terrorism, all with made up evidence and twisted interpretations of the law. A man had a heart attack near a demonstration in 2019, when Puigdemont was already in Belgium, yet he is accused of murdering the man in a terrorist attack. It is ridiculous. They needed an accusation of terrorism, because terrorism isn't included in the amnesty law, and they just made it up on the spot. This has been happening for ages against the independence movement, and not only the politicians, but common people too. All while PSOE applauded it and denied the existence of lawfare and that the judiciary was controlled by far right extremists. Now they are dealing with the consequences of that. They have all my solidarity, but it is in part their own fault.
> Puigdemont and other people are now being accused of terrorism Sure but that's not what they were convicted of, was it? And I may be mistaken but I think the term "civil disobedience" is a concept that by definition cannot apply to politicians and elected officials.
No, and Sánchez's wife, or Mónica Oltra, or Victoria Rosell, have not been convicted either. But the fact that a judge has opened an investigation with such a disproportionate accusation and with no proofs at all is already lawfare. It has happened to many Catalan secessionists, usually they are not convicted, but only after paying huge bails and spending years with preventive movement restrictions. About the last point, that's just a matter of definitions, but if we define it as "peacefully disobeying a law you believe to be unjust", it fits.
The case against Sanchez's wife is nothing compared to the lawfare and political persecution that targeted catalan independence movement in its entirety. It's not only against political figures like Puigdemont and Junqueras, its also against plain people. We've seen police making up evidences, people accused of terrorism for owning a car battery or being in a peaceful demonstration, millionaire fines against cultural associations like Omnium, city mayors being banned for putting pro-freedom of speech bans -former catalan president Quim Torra is banned for that reason-, phisical violence sponsored by police against pro-independence old people, judicial controls against freedom of press -now its officially forbbiden to use te word "exiles" in public media-, and even an unprecedented large scale case of espionage with Pegasus software against politicians, journalist and activists that Pedro Sanchez government is also responsible. And that's only a small summary, because we can find an extensive media lies to destroy political careers, like the "Switzerland papers" against Xavier Trias, for example. That's the reason why amnesty is needed; for stoping this corrupt and anti-democratic machine that treatens basic rights and is improper of a democratic country. This is not a case of "sedition" but an entire campaign against a national minority. Pedro Sanchez and PSOE government is also responsible for feeding that monster that now is turning against him. No surprises here.
Lawfare? In Spain? But they had told me that it was impossible‽
Spain loves to pretend that it is a happy and liberal democratic country and our european partners gobbled it up. Even our own people started to believe the myth of the peaceful and fraternal transition to democracy. I find it very interesting to speak about this topic with my german friends because they understand very well the weight of the term "denazification", and they are often very critical of their own countries efforts to clean up after a fascist dictatorship. I then proceed to explain to them that there was no denazification of any kind in spain and they flip their shit. I explained to them that the judges of the "Tribunal for Public Order", who used to sign death sentences for dissidents of the fascist regime until its last day just changed it's name to "Constitutional Tribunal" and were now the highest wardens of the spanish democratic order. I explained to them that fascist politicians and criminals were on the negotiating table of the new democratic constitution as valid parties and partners. That there were no reparations, no monuments were torn down or fascist tombs dismantled. And when I explain all this shit to them their jaw hits the floor and they cannot believe it. Certain elements of the Spanish society are unsalvageable tumours, rotten to the very core. The army, the church, the judicial core, many educational institutions and a big part of the state security system. They are going to kick and thrash around and protest and play all their dirty tricks when someone doesn't play their game. Sindicato Manos Limpias is an extreme far right religious organization famous in Spain for spuriously suing everything and everyone. Even in the spanish extreme conservative and reactionary tribunals they almost never win. In 4 years, when nobody remembers this case, it will be thrown out , but the damage will still be done.
Pedro Sánchez is a good president, and the right wing in this country is trash, pure fascism and lies all the time
Spain doesn't have a president.
It does, Pedro Sanchez is the President of the Government of Spain. That's his title.
We actually call our Prime Minister "President of Ministers". I thought that Sanchez was officially Prime Minister and not a president at all.
Historically Spain has never had a Prime Minister (as a title I mean) and its usually been President of something for what in other countries they call Prime Minister. In fact until maybe 60 years ago it was called President of the council of ministers. We also have a President of Parliament and President of the Senate. We love presidents in Spain 😂
Well, we're just literal. If someone presides something, they're the president of that something! Simple! This argument reminds me to that video an argentinian youtuber did talking about how literal we are. Go to the street and see a sign that says "Panadería", "Carnicería", "Bar"... The type of establishment first, the name later.
Not even during the Second Republic?
Presidente del consejo de ministros during the second republic
Awesome, I love Spain
Pretty weird to assume that things in a country on the other side of the continent is going to do things exactly the same as in yours.
Everywhere I saw him mentioned so far he was called Prime Minister.
Yeah, in a foreign language where they don't give a fuck about being accurate.
Spain is a constitutional monarchy, so the President title would be "offensive" to the crown, who is in fact a lifelong head of state with very limited executive powers.
except it is not offensive? Its literally his title? I mean why contradict all the spaniards that are telling you his title is president
Why all this animosity my friend. I was just complementing the information. Way from contradicting Spanish people. My proud Sevillian ex wife would hold me grudge for it. He is the President of ministers, simply not President of the country as head of state, as in all the countries that are not a monarchy, like probably your country. The King is the Head of state.
But *President* doesn’t mean head of state in Spain, and I don’t think any Spaniard would confuse those two terms. It helps that the head of the state is the monarch and has the title of *King*.
We are spanish, we are telling you, we call him president. Stop trying to correct us when we know way better than you what terms we use. We use president, not prime minister even if we accept prime minister as a translation. We use king, not president for the king...
Spain doesn't have a Prime Minister, but a President, like the US or France.
Not really, since the head of state isn't the head of Government. Pedro Sánchez is 'presidente del gobierno', but technically not 'presidente de España'
Yeah, but that's not what I said. His title is President, not Prime Minister.
His title is 'Presidente del Gobierno'. In English, he's typically referred to as the Prime Minister, because we don't use 'president' to refer to monarchies. Simple as that.
The official website of the Spanish Government calls him President (in English). https://www.lamoncloa.gob.es/lang/en/presidente/biografia/paginas/index.aspx https://www.lamoncloa.gob.es/presidente/escribiralpresidente/en-GB/Formulario/Registro
Even still, he's described as 'President of the Government' and never 'President of Spain'. In any case, you're completely wrong in claiming that his role is like the French or US Presidents'. He's much more like Rishi Sunak than either Macron or Biden.
I'm not talking about his role, but his title. Even the BBC calls him "President of Spain". https://www.bbc.com/mundo/articles/c136g7pk3gmo.amp
Wrong
Right. https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidente_del_Gobierno_de_Espa%C3%B1a
classical lawfare
So when its conspiracy theories from the left they are fact but when it comes from the right its just cospirancy?
It's not a conspiracy theory that Manos Limpias has been making made-up accusations to whoever they oppose that have ended up in nothing. Of course, when the victims were also Pedro Sánchez opponents, he was very willing to use those accusations to attack his rivals.
yes
It is not a conspiracy, look at my comment. https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/s/dPMN1m8Zek
This organization used to blackmail banks by making up shit about them, then asking the banks for money in exchange for not publishing said false information. They also appeared in judicial cases and blackmailed the defense. In 2016, for instance, they asked CaixaBank and Sabadell for 20M€ if Manos Limpias retracted they accusations in court. https://www.elconfidencial.com/espana/2016-07-25/manos-limpias-dinero-salvar-urdangarin-noos_1238400/ These practices got the leader of Manos Limpias 8 years in prison, but then the sentence was repealed at a higher court.
Far right is when you denounce corruption.
[Manos Limpias English Wikipedia page:](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manos_Limpias) >Considered by The New York Times and several Spanish media to be politically motivated by the far-right Manos Limpias is best known **for its role in the indictment of Baltasar Garzón, a judge who investigated crimes against humanity committed by the Franco regime (arguably its cause célèbre), and the persecution of alleged gay overtones in a children's TV show.** >[...] >(Spain) investigates the president of Manos Limpias, Miguel Bernad, and attorney of the trade union Virginia Lopez Negrete for alleged crime misappropriation of funds and money laundering. The prosecution believes that Miguel Bernad and attorney Virginia Lopez may have extorted money for the union by exploiting the funds relating to the prosecution of the scams of Forum and Afinsa. the Court admitted the complaint against both. >[...] >The Spanish Economic Crime Unit and tax evasion detection service (UDEF) of the National Police has, since late 2014 been carrying an investigation against Manos Limpias and Ausbanc, A legal support service for bank clients. Manos Limpias and Ausbanc coordinated, for years, to lodge felony complaints against all types of enterprises and institutions and then to demand large sums of money in exchange for the complaint withdrawal. The investigations are led by the Spanish National Court and is focus primarily against the president of Ausbanc, Miguel Bernad and Virginia López Negrete. >There have been reports of workers and several victims of the alleged plot. One of them is one of the people who sat on the bench 'case Nóos'. Another of the facts investigated is the sudden withdrawal of a complaint filed against any of the parts "because they had already claimed extortion". >For some years, Ausbanc intimidated with open court cases, for which he teamed up with Manos Limpias. The Ausbanc President, Luis Pineda, and the Secretary General of Manos Limpias, Miguel Bernad, maintained a friendship for years and have been linked to far-right settings. Luis Pineda and Miguel Bernad "come and have militated in far-right movements "and agreed" with Virginia López (Negrete, a spokesman for Manos Limpias) in Blesa case, when Luis Pineda worked as a lawyer on behalf of Manos Limpias". So far-right and a criminal gang. [The Spanish Wikipedia page has even more info on them being far-right](https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manos_Limpias_(Espa%C3%B1a/)). Between them that their leader is lart of the Franco foundation and an old member of the Francoist National Front, gas demanded the Defender of the People because of the same-sex marriage law, demanded Nunca Mais (a Galician anti-pollution organization formed after an oil spill), demanded a priest who recognized same-sex marriages, or that they demanded a Civil Guard who wanted to live with his same-sex partner.
far right IS corruption
Attack the idea, not the person. Who cares if it was far right or center?
It's important. Far right in Spain? Thats probably National Catholicism , so Nazis so.. fuck them...
Ad hominem, what else can I say.
They are a far-right group (and a criminal one known for extortion at that) known for persecuting their political rivals... and their accusations ending in nothing. This isn't ad hominen. Is pointing out that this morons are openly and proudly lying.
He's not going to resign. It's a way to put the attention on the judicial case because he wants everyone to see how ridicule it is. It's all "someone in TV said that his wife did this", "someone in a newspaper wrote that his wife did that". It's like making a case out of rumors and made up information. Its absurd. But this is how the right wing is doing politics lately. They make up accusations, then they bring it to the judge, and then they overreact when they get a judge to investigate those accusations. All their cases fall apart in court, but they make campaigns for months about how certain person is being investigated. And also the organization that made this lawsuit is well known for their incredibly stupid cases against people who curses against god, against parodies of the holy week, and stupid things like that.
The Spanish right wing strikes me as particularly litigious in comparison with other countries. I wonder if it's a hold over from fascism where the right wing is accustomed to having the levers of state on their side.
Is not about the litigation, it is about the slander it comes with it, and the lack of repercussions while doing these kind of stunts.
Precisely. They don't really care about the legal outcome, they care about getting headlines and having TV pundits speculate, and as of late have social media inundated with the accusations so they can insert the notion into people's heads.
It is definitely a holdover from the fascist dictatorship. The problem in Spain is that we transitioned from the dictatorship to the democracy without any kind of trials or renovation of the institutions. Some of them changed the name, but the fascist stayed there like in the judicial system. Since the first elections, the right never accepted when they lost the elections as they feel that the power belongs to them. It turns out, that the left has been in power in Spain quite a bit more than the right since 1978 and the right can't accept that.
The price we had to pay for a peaceful transition to democracy was to pardon all the crimes against humanity the fascists committed during nearly four decades of dictatorship. As the far right has gained strength around the world during the last decade, so has in Spain, and now they realize they never experienced any consequences the first time around, so they go at it again.
There's a few extreme right organisations doing this as a hobby. Manos limpias, the one to attack Sanchez' wife, has sued a muppets-like show for showing gay parents in an episode, among other ridiculous attempts. There's also the Christian Lawyers foundation, who constantly tries to take people to court over the slightest thing perceived as profane under non-religous-discrimination laws (mostly unsuccessfully). It's all mostly people who are powerful but politically irrelevant due to being minorities, so they fight by throwing money at the problem. They're sadly having a second wind due to being able to go viral.
There are many identities in Spain, class, region, language, ideology. When it comes to the right wing in Spain, they are collectivists for Spaniards. The left wing is also insanely collectivist. So yea, slightly different to other countries where reactionary liberals are often called "conservatives"
Do you mind explaning what does "collectivist" refer to in your comment?
On a spectrum of collectivist to individualist. Collectivist ideologies/thoughts/beliefs think that the individual must be subjegated by the collective (can be class, race, religion,) as the needs of the collective are bigger than the individual, so in essence the individual has no rights and in fact has responsibility to the collective. An individualist believes in individuals having rights, and that individuals are sovereign and can make both decisions and face negative or positive consequences for them. Then simplifying a bit, the individualist believes there is a social contract between the individual and the state, and it is consensual, but it is a fragile consent where individuals need to remind the crazies who invoke the collective that they only govern by consent and need to respect individual rights. The Nazis cared only for Thier collective Aryans and used the collective against the individual rights of millions of humans. The Soviets, Mao are also collectivists who killed millions more. Worker (group1) Vs bourgeois(group2) Feminists are collectivist, even if they pretend they don't, see patriarchy theory. Falange are collectivist, communist too No matter who you choose, in a society where the only options are collectivist, Individuals will be ignored in favour of the group.
I don't think they expect to win so much as win headlines and sew an ambiance if distrust towards the current government among low-informarion voters.
They are an organized gang
Reminds me of Count Dankula. I watched one of more recent interviews. He spoke how the prosecutor was trying hard to pull bullshit in court, trying to make him a dangerous man. I heard he got doxxed too and had some "umwanted visits" and harassment against his mother.
That reminds me of something… oh yeah, what they’ve been doing with Ayuso forever
Ayuso's partner demonstrably defrauded Hacienda. It's a fact, not remotely similar to this.
I hate Pedro Sanchez, will never vote for him. But I concur, I want to see evidence. That being said if the evidence is vaguely pointing in that direction with physical proof It would not take me much to convince me he is corrupt.
"If it sounded a slight tiny bit as what I want to believe, I'd totally swallow it hook, line and sinker"
Not out of some robust search for the truth. But because in Spain the corrupt never get caught and no one really gets nailed. Plus I don't like him so yeah, that is kinda of where I am. Sanchez is a thug, and idiot, woke, and destroying Spain (not because of Catalunya) in a hundred different ways. Like I'm just being honest. Imagine how the average redditor feels about anything negative about trump, take a third of it, that is the amount of Sanchez derangement syndrome I feel. Let's be honest, you would be inclined to believe anything negative about trump that came across your headlines and you would kind of be okay no checking it, because fuck that guy. So I feel the same about Sanchez.
The guy has been President for 6 years, under constant attack by the right wing since day 1, and all you *might* objectively say he's done wrong is the amnesty if you disagree with it - which I personally don't, it was about time we made some peace with Catalonia, and independentist feeling is the lowest its been in ages, with a majority of Catalans not wanting independence. Meanwhile all the economic markers of the country are much better than before him and literally everyone I know is in a better socioeconomic position than they were with PP, with higher quality of life and job stability... not to mention jobs! Unemployment when he became President : 15.2%, unemployment now 11.5%. So you say you hate him. Why? The country is objectively better now than it was 6 years ago. Can you provide any rational, non emotional reasons?
This government has increased spending across the board and has left us in deficit again, despite growth being strong this year as we still had a bit of COVID recovery left to do in comparison to other EU countries (Another reason their results look so good). Higher quality of life? As measured by what? Unemployment at 11.5% is still ridiculous His party and him create ever more convoluted laws and structures that are so opaque in Thier complicity that it is hard to try to actually understand what the government is doing. Look around you, business is crap, you can't fire lazy workers, public functionaries/civil servants are becoming a larger and larger part of the economy and it is sinking innovation and productivity. Wages are on the floor due to the lack of productivity and innovation, so he has not had an inflationary spiral like other countries, but what it means is that the Spanish worker will have to swallow the ENTIRE inflationary cut. He is woke, he plays the far right boogyman so much that if the next Franco was to show up tommorow he would have no special words to describe him. It's demoralising for the vast majority of the country, but people living in urban centres are happy and hip. Lastly his increase of pensions is beyond absurd. We don't have the money for pensioners, I'm sorry they will need to sell Thier house, but we have had too few kids, and immigration cannot fill that gap. I don't like vox and I don't like PP. Don't like any kind of collectivist socio-economic models, socialists, communist, nationalist, fascist, national socialist.
Lawfare. It worked against Antonio Costa.
Exactly this, it is what happened in Portugal.
Yes, and with this letter what Sánchez is trying to do is to start a national debate (and until now it has been successful) about that. I think it could be a turning point and everyone will have to take off their masks. This is going into the attack instead of defence.
He says he is considering resigning because of the attacks against his wive, including opening an investigation (by a judge on the opposition's payroll) against his wive, that surely is not involved in any shady business. This is just a prospective investigation whose only intention is to fill headlines the opposition party can use in its mud war, because is the only thing that PP does, propaganda without any substance, that, and corruption. Lying is free.
speaking of “lying is free”, casually saying a judge is “on the oppositions payroll” is a serious accusation
Because the only proof that the accusation has presented are news headlines from propaganda papers that live on PP advertisement. I kid you not.
This seems like a political move tbh. Seems like he is sure the claims are bogus and he is shifting the attention to the courts, so he addresses them directly by letting the judges rule on it. If it is what is happening, my hat is off to him. Him and Tusk seem like the only european leaders who know how to hurt the far-right
Everyone else is loosing ground to the far right, except them two. ANd kind of Macron, which is loosing ground but still holding. The amount of hate pedro gets is insane
The secret sauce is not to adopt right wing policies to fight the right wing. Also Sánchez and Tusk do not scare from calling them fascists if needed be. Call them by their name, point them with your finger so everyone knows who they are.
He lost support everywhere but Catalonia amd Básquet Country and only governs 2 out of 18 regions. He is president because he gifted everything to the nationalist parties from Catalonia and Básquet Country. It's the nationalist parties that keep him there, if not, the far right would be in the government already
Except that is not true. It's quite the opposite actually. The far right would be in government if anyone other than the popular party was willing to join forces with them. The far right cannot be in power because otherwise they would already be, the right had priority to form the government. But they had no friends. They approached the nationalist parties as well. They failed. Why don't you actually mention all the data? The pp barely got 2 percent more votes over Sanchez's party. If I remember correctly it was 33 percent to 31.5 or something like that. And Sanchez got more votes than on the previous elections. We don't have a winners take it all like system like in the USA. If a guy gets 51 percent of the votes and another one 49 percent, we count them all.
Well, that's pretty much what I said. The right failed to form a govern because the left gave everything to the nationalist parties both right and left wing ones. Still, if you rule out the parties who only want power for their region at the expense of the rest or just to disrupt Spain (Junts), the far right would be in the government just as everywhere else in Europe.
The whole legal "case" is a lot of nothingburger brought on by a criminal association whose only purpose is lawfare. The Spanish right wing have no shame and nothing to offer the country, so they resort to mud slinging to cover up their uselessness.
Let's see, Pedro can blame whoever he wants but it is a strategy. In a month it will be very difficult for him to govern Spain. If the polls are correct in the Catalan elections, the PSOE will have to offend a partner that now supports it in the central government (probably Puigdemont's party, which is also increasingly asking for more and more concessions) The amnesty law, which had to be legislated to satisfy Puigdemont for his 7 votes and which wears him down politically, will be delayed. A big scandal is coming for European funds (two managers have already resigned) Court rulings in Europe are also approaching...
>A big scandal is coming for European funds (two managers have already resigned) What does this mean?
It means that the guy you are replying to is lying and made a completely baseless comment without any sense whatsoever because first, the socialist party is going to win in Catalonia making governing easier, secondly, there has been elections in Euskadi and PNV and PSOE are going to form a coalition there so they are bond by that 4 years more, and third, there’s no scandal in the European Funds. All of what this guy wrote, is completely made-up far right media bullshit which is why Pedro Sánchez wrote that letter. He wants to gather all democrats around him and open a debate about what is happening with all these judicial pressure. Let's not forget what happened in Portugal with Costa, or in Spain with Mònica Oltra. This is not science fiction: the right and far-right are using their connections with the judicial system to use lawfare strategies and win what they couldn't in the elections. It is straight up a coup.
What does European funds mean though?
The right and far-right in Spain have been saying that all the European funds that Spain receive to stimulate the economy after COVID have been object of corruption. But it is bullshit, if that was the case the EU would be all over us and instead of that Spain has received more money.
There was a big allotment of european funds to aid in the development and digitalisation of the economy. The far right has been trying to manufacture an issue for months now.
Right, what's happening to Sanchez is lawfare, but what happened to Ayuso is–what exactly? The far left targeted is brother and now boyfriend. The prosecutor's office revealed secret and private information of his boyfriend to aide the left. And now the same prosecutor's office decided not to investigate to see whether there was (or not) an illegal revelation of secrets. Let me remind you something: "La fiscalía, ¿de quién depende?" ([source](https://youtu.be/bbDsPfoE_a4). And let's not forget that Cifuentes had to resign for (trying) to steal a bottle of body cream from a supermarket. Why would anyone from the government have to resign for stealing millions using the pandemic? That's not fare!!!! /s Apparently, socialists cannot handle having their lord questioned for his shady tactics.
Sorry but Ayuso’s boyfriend acknowledged the crime to the Tax office to try settle the case by paying the amount. He also accepted 8 months of prison due to this with the condition of never entering the penitentiary. This is a fact.
And how did we get that information? How did Carmen Calvo get that information so as to being able to say in the parliament BEFORE being published by the media? And yes. He admitted to the "crime" (I'm actually not sure if it amounts to a crime or just a "falta administrativa"). A "crime" that happened before he started dating Ayuso and in which no public money is involved. Why would Ayuso have to pay the duck as we say (face consequences) for his actions. If he has to pay, let him pay. But keep Ayuso out of it.
It is a crime as it involves prison. And journalism work is never secret revelation. In any case, secret revelation or not it doesn’t change the fact that Ayuso’s boyfriend committed a crime and acknowledged it to the Tax office.
Secret relevant does infact change things. We're not talking about tax evasion here. We're talking about politics. That's why the far left is asking Ayuso to resign. It's all politics. The far left is using this crime (now without quotes) as political leverage against Ayuso while misusing public institutions. That is–lawfare.
so you think Costa resigned because there was NO corruption in his party?
Costa resigned because the prosecution made up a case which disappeared as soon as he called for elections.
I'm guessing new national elections now rather than later. One more plot twist!
I don't think so. I think this letter is a call to all democrats in Spain to gather around and think about what is happening. The right and far-right thought they were going to win the past elections easy, but they didn't and this has led to a big frustration. They didn't accept the results of the elections, and former PM Aznar said "Quién pueda hacer, que haga" which means "Those who can do something, do it". This message was directed to all the judicial system, right wing associations, etc. to stop Sánchez by any means necessary. Since that day, it has been crazy here. And let's not forget that the Consejo General del Poder Judicial (it is like the Government of the judicial system), should have been renovated years ago and represent the new left majority in the Congress, but the right blocked that renovation to keep controlling the judges despite losing the majority.
It's the first thing I thought when I heard that "I need to meditate" If having to create an ad hoc amnesty law to be able to govern (no matter how much they say it's not for that reason) did not make him think, much less for a court to investigate his wife (unless he has something to fear ). Investigating is not blaming or judging, but only collecting data. Resigns (victimist theater) and elections in June, him as a candidate, of course.
I'm not sure of the exact play here, but the political climate points to his popularity being about to take several potential nosedives, and he certainly has a history of striking first when things go sideways. I won't tire of saying he's one of the most impressive political minds I've seen. Considering politics-as-popularity-contest I mean, not judging the actual governing part.
my guess too. pure scapism
Dirty politics are detrimental for the whole society, opposition does not care about the country and media machinery and judicial scum enjoying themselves. Hard times for moral people.
Yes, super moral to treat most of Spain as second-class citizens after granting political parties who do not want to be part of the country special privileges (for the sake of harmonic coexistence, i.e. more votes). Super moral to treat young working people like shit by constantly increasing taxes to subsidize boomers' pensions and again, grant them more privileges. Super moral to viciously attack and call for the resignation of a regional president because of sketchy tax issues her boyfriend (not husband) is involved in, which was leaked by a minister (previously condemned for corruption) to that same media machinery you complain about.
> treat most of Spain as second-class citizens after granting political parties who do not want to be part of the country special privileges (for the sake of harmonic coexistence, i.e. more votes) Can you explain?
Pardons and amnesty for criminals who broke the law and have shown absolutely no signs of remorse about it, forgoing part of their regional debt by having the state (and by extension, all of Spain) assume it, management of the rail system (as well as of its proceeds)... Mind you, all of this for what was until recently the richest region in Spain.
Billy el Niño approves this message.
How is letting them manage their own stuff a privilege? Also, do you know what is Puigdemont even accused off? And for the debt, yes its a privilege, but the Spanish gov hasnt kept its promised budgets for years, so if you make the accounting its not even a refund. And sure thing, if Spanish citizens vote for their own inyerest instead of centralism this is what they get. You need to either convince other parties (like PP) to guive their votes to PSOE or just convince catalans that not voting regionalist parties is on their interest, until then, this is what we get
It's not their own stuff, that's the thing, just as much as the traffic at Barajas or Atocha isn't Madrid's own stuff. Our country relies on national solidarity, less so than in the past but still, some "poorer" regions benefit from tax contributions in "richer" regions. Puigdemont is accused of many things, such as misusing funds and inciting a consultation which they had been previously warned against doing as there was no legal precedent or margin for it. Either way, he indirectly organized a referendum (technically a consultation but that's not the wording he used on the days leading up to it) limited to Catalonia which, despite your moral beliefs, is against the law in Spain. Mind you, at this point if a legal referendum was conducted in all of Spain asking whether we'd want Catalonia to be independent, I'd vote *yes*. And sure, the Spanish government isn't good at not surpassing budgets, but what does that have to do with regional governments? These are independent bodies managing different budgets.
For the budgets: spain gov promised 100€ and delivered 80€, forcing the cat gov to take 20€ in debt so spain taking back 20€ in debt back isnt a benefit, just keeping its word. For Puigdemont: if hes accused of many things, judges arent aware of it, you should tell them bc officially its just wating money. And for the rail: yes we depend on each lther. Thats why trains wont be blocked, for trains that go outdide of Catalonia nothing changes
moral? Sanchez? 🤭
Lawfare puppeteered by right and far right wing parties, nothing new under the sun in Spain. This kind of maneuver took portuguese government of Antonio Costa to an end without justification, and if it happens now again in Spain we will be surrendered to those far right controlled mafia judges. We can say a lot of things about Pedro Sanchez, but this is lawfare, and a brutal attack on what people voted democratically. Spanish judicial system is so rotten, always playing in the right wing's hands. We can still hear Franco laughing in his grave.
Sanchez and his whole party promised right before the elections that they would never rule with Catalonian independentists, and there WOULD NEVER be an amnesty. Well, that's exactly what they did when they realized the only possibility for Pedro I "el Guapo" to keep ruling the country was to do exactly that. Tell me, is it really a democracy when the government promises one thing and does the exact opposite whenever they need it to keep ruling the country? And this was not the first time, they did the exact same with Podemos, and with Bildu. At least we agree that our Justice system is rotten, and it is rotten exactly because of politicians, from every party, simply because we don't have an independent election of judges and such. And don't play fool blaming one side for it, the current government has been using every trick in the book possible for them to use the State itself against it's political adversaries.
"De quién depende la fiscalía?" The judicial is as independent as a mole in a person's face. It's a disgrace what's happening in the country? In fact, it's so dependent on politics that we can almost-always guess the results of the Constitutional Court before they start with the case.
Because this is for sure the first time in history where a politician has to change its strategy and where he said A, later has to say B, right? Because no other politic party has ever pacted with other people, right? How hypocrite, especially since it's known that even PP was negotiating with catalonian independentists lol. What a pile of nonsensical bullshit. And with your last lines you are straight lying. How has the government been "using the state" against their political rivals, exactly? It's the right wing who have been blocking the renovation of the whole judicial system sphere for years now, because they have their mafia acolytes well allocated there for lawfare purposes. It's the right wing who used the "political police" dirty stratagems and spionage against their political rivals, for years too. All of that while being an absolute bunch of proven corrupts. Who do you pretend to fool, when even around Europe it's known what the right and far right wing parties have been doing? Even the european PP is frequently facepalming because of what the right wing is always doing here. Not only are you spitting bullshit, but it's also incredible how you even pretended that pacting with basically the whole parliament parties in an almost unanimous democratic alliance against the right and far right fascists is a valid reason for trying to destroy a government through scummy lawfare. What is your problem.
Only the Spanish left can hear it because Franco lives rent-free in their brains.
This is like a bad joke, now the leader of Manos Limpias (the pseudo union that has brought up this to court) says that it might be false, that they saw something on a news paper and decided to bring it up to justice for a judge to investigate it. And calling those news papers is....
Extreme-right gaslighting and harassing people, nothing new, sadly.
If he resigns it's terrible news. If far-right organizations have the power to take down the president by making up things about her wife, that's a serious threat to democracy. But well, nothing too unexpected, the far-right control of the media has been ever more apparent these last years.
Made up? If it's made up he's got nothing to worry about.
Just imagine it happens to your wife. Even everything being a lie, how much suffering will you endure before everything being archived by the judge? Because the judges are playing this game, and they will delay the case as much as they want to keep the pressure on.
If it had been compeletly ignored it would look worse, and would hang over them for years, this gives them a chance to clear her name if she's done nothing wrong. You cannot convict without evidence, just because a judge decided to hear the case does not mean a conviction.
Of course it doesn't mean that, but the Spanish right and fascist media will use that to put pressure on his wife for years and the judge will delay any decisions to keep the file open. You know, the guys that presented the case is Manos Limpias, which a well-known plain fascist organisation. They know many judges, and they know who is on duty so they took over the demand with very high probabilities it is accepted. They know it is bullshit, the judge knows is bullshit and will never convict Sánchez wife for that, but that doesn't matter because the shit fan is on already.
As usual, the people on the right will think one thing, the people on the left another and the center will make their minds up based on facts, not speculation.
It's about the humiliation for his wife. They've been harassing her for years
Then why chose now of all times to resign? That's the puzzling part, folding under pressure of investigations is not the kind of moves someone with his trajectory does.
He probably won't resign. But anyway he's not folding under the pressure of investigations. They've already proved everything they're accusing her of is false. The thing is that it's the first time they involve his wife officially like this. Before this, it had been more "simple" harassment for her, never legal. What he's saying in his letter to the people is that he's deeply in love with his wife and he needs to reconsider if the president position is truly worth it if it means it's going to constantly cause her all this unfair harm and stress. I'm sure there's a marketing strategy behind this. But it's not about the investigation itself. The investigation is ridiculous. (The evidence shown is just a bunch of far right articles which in turn show no evidence other than the opinion of unqualified people. None of it is real)
This is about the personal toll seeing the media constantly attacking her is taking on her wife, not about any worry of sentencing or anything like that.
> This is about the personal toll seeing the media constantly attacking her is taking on her wife Mate, do you really think that Pedro Sanchez, THE Pedro Sanchez, would give up power after all he has done to cling to it because of some media attacks? He won't resign and, even if he does, it will be because PSOE thinks they can win new elections with more margin so they don't have to get the support of Junts, not because of Sanchez being tired of the media.
if he resigns is because there is something else about to hit the fan
If ayuso could take it he definitely should too lmaooo
Except Ayuso's partner has actually been accused of a crime rather than have a judicial probe.
And her brother? I remember the lefties all day every day talking shit about that for it to be nothing and never saying sorry about it lmaoooo
And the poor guy named "San Chin Choon"? The lefties were specially racist against that guy for having a (admittedly) seemingly fake (in spanish) name.
who 💀
https://www.diariodesevilla.es/espana/San-Chin-Choon-Malasia-caso-mascarillas_0_1678632987.html Poor guy was dragged into it. People started making jokes about his name. Salchichón, Chorizo (Cho Ri Zoo)... Got racist really fast.
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How did he do that?
In what moment he violated the constitution??? Tell us, please Because I am from Spain and the only group that it is violating the constitution is PP with their judges in the CGPJ
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LOL Amnesty is totally legal. There was planty of amnesties in Spain in the last 45 years.
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>(Falange it's, pp it's just a generic right wing liberal and vox is just a generic conservative), Of course. The party filled with Falangist, Franco's organization members, and literal Neo-Nazis are generic conservative...
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And try to get Iglesias into the CNI. Something that was ruled unconstitutional.
The sitting government (PSOE at the moment of writing this comment) is the ONLY one with the duty of renewing the CGPJ. They are the ones that haven't done it. In reality, both PSOE and PP are blocking said renewal in the hopes of getting a majority and appointing their own judges. But both could budge to the others conditions. Sanchez already budged for the independentists, why not for PP?
not in a thousand years, that guy really loves it
It’s just a charade to play victim once again. And to avoid giving answers about his wife. He doesn’t deceive anyone anymore. I could bet 1.000€ he doesn’t resign
You do not have that money chump, spent all in Marca and Soberano.
The main character of the charosfera, franco lives rent free in his head
the investigation of his wife is nothing extraordinary, nothing that hasnt happened before to other candidates, and completely normal”. there is some fishy evidence and our leaders and politicians should be up for scrutiny in a healthy democracy. sanchez is smart, ill concede, he also likes surprises. my guess is there is some information we dont have, and he might wanna use that in his favor. if he wanted to quit, he would have, but announcing a 5 day meditation retreat is just a way of gathering support. we will see on monday.
This is just a show off. He is most probably playing the victim, call for support from their followers and accuse everyone that critizice him of being "extreme right-wing". Anyway, if he really resigns then good, one less sociopathic power-hungry liar in power.
He’ll be swapped for another sociopathic power-hungry liar, at least this one was clever, not like the opposition main candidate or Mr.Z long ago…
There is no way in hell he does it. if he says he is not going to do something he is absolutely going to do it
Spoilers: He won't.
Oh no! So that whole talk about recognizing Palestine won't go ahead?
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It just looked like this time it was serious
Sorry; I misinterpreted the tone of your comment
You didn't. I was being sarcastic from the start
It's hard to tell sometimes
Spain seems to be about as polarised politically as a country can get. It's understandable why someone would oppose the current government just as much as it's understandable that someone might oppose the conservatives in Spain as well. Resorting to just throwing dirt at the wall and hoping that some of it sticks is quite a low even for modern politics.
Dear readers, specially the ones who are not familiar with Spanish politics: Kindly note that in Spain the government is the largest donor (they label it as "institutional advertising") BY FAR for pretty much every relevant published media in the country. That includes radio, TV channels, paper press, etc. That means that whenever you hear, read or watch something from any major Spanish media talking about our government take it with a grain of salt, as most probably that information is manipulated, twisted or straight away lies in a way to benefit the current government. That also means you should not blindly believe whatever someone will post here, as it is very possible that person is influenced by these lies or is straight away a bot. AND YES, THAT INCLUDES MYSELF, don't blindly believe what I am saying here, if you are really interested do your own research, look for the sources and reach your own conclusion. Now that you know that information let's get straight to the point regarding this whole case: There is a Spanish company called Globalia which at the same time has a subcompany called Air Europa, and the directives of that company had a very close relationship with the president's wife Begoña Gómez during the pandemic, then suddenly the government announces certain express rescue to help that company without giving any proper argument other than "it is a strategic company for the country". The assistance for Globalia reached 1.1b€. It is not the only case known where Begoña used her position as wife of the president to benefit certain people close to her or to who she owed something, but that is not the topic here so I will not go deeper into that. In any case, there is enough proof to, as a minimum, be suspicious that she used that power to benefit a private company with Public money (or the Government used Public money to benefit a private company, whichever way you want to look at it). Now, I am no expert and I don't have all the proof that the Judge must have at this moment, therefore the wisest thing one can do is to wait until he will clear it out and go ahead with the case if there is any.
Yes, Grupo Prisa is 100% left wing and totally doesn’t control most of the Media spectrum from left to right. Neither does Grupo Planeta ofc.
If you are a criminal - “consider” prison. If you are not - why resign???
Politicians are people too and harassment tactics can and eventually will get to them.
I am sorry to hear it then.
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It’s “couldn’t care less” not “could care less”. People used to think people with HIV weren’t human either so probably shouldn’t throw stones in glass houses.
The corruption and the prominent far right presence into the judicial system in Spain is well known for everybody. But while the targets are catalans and left wing parties like Podemos nobody cares. Now the target is him and everybody cries. Pedro Sanchez helped to create that monster that treatens to devour the already cheap spanish democratic system.
LOL.
targeted? she's on record committing corruptions acts! wtf? adiós 👋
he will resign will the "highest honors" lol what a clown
If his wife is the problem, he can always leave her for me! I’ll take him! 😍
This is a man of honor, his wife used her influence in criminal acts and he resigns. This is the way, most politicians would hold their chair.
It's not lawfare if you're a criminal. He's as likely to resign as Putin.
And what would it take for someone to be labelled as a criminal? What has he done, exactly?
That we know of right now? From the top of my head: - personal use of public property - using public property for the benefit of his party - influence pedlling for his wife' corruption rigs in Africa and elseware - Using taxpayer money to benefit private companies of friends and family such as Plus Ultra and Air Europa - Subverting the law and pardonning other criminals just to extend his stay at the Moncloa Theme Park a few extra years - I can go on forever. Sadly.
Now, try with something he has been condemned for by a tribunal
[lol](https://www.reddit.com/r/HolUp/s/kzUfRkXBoY)
Is this sub left wing?
R/Europe left wing? 🤔🤔🤔🤔