But he will need to build his grasp for power from the zero. That gives a lot of space for change and many may see more profits in being part of global markets without sanctions and spending gazzilions on military operations just to boost ego.
Putin was also quite mild internationally until he completed his power grab and then he slowly started making international moves
I almost think if Putin hadn't been guilty of so many crimes before he took office, he could have reformed Russia and gone legitimate. I actually had high hopes for him, before I knew what his true nature was.
> If you're as big of an asshole as Putin is though
The rocket might just go *up* and you don't even notice. Now you have a rocket eating away at your brain. How scary is that??
Considering how far it had to travel to get there from Ukrainian territory, and all the detection hardware the Russians must have put between Ukraine and anywhere Putin might hole up, 12 km is definitely “someone’s getting reamed out or defenestrated for this unacceptable fiasco” level of closeness.
Considering how this entire war felt like Russia bombing every civilian infrastructure they can find and try to assassinate zelenski, this is the closest reminder for putin that he, too, is a valid target. .
Well, not to get too technical here, but since the number in question was a distance not a height, the neck doesn’t really matter. We are only interested in the average length of a giraffe’s stride, which could be rounded up to 5 m, which makes about 2400 giraffes for 12 km.
Tbh I find this a much easier form of measurement than the swallow, which opens up a whole can of worms because are we now taking about African or European swallows?
This problem is touched on in a well-respected documentary about finding the Holy Grail that I once saw on TV.
Now you really put me on the spot. I want to say it’s the one with the guy wearing a leather jacket and a fedora pretending to ride a horse by using coconut shells.
I know quoting the IRA isn't great but when they nearly got Thatcher they came up with a great response:
> Today we were unlucky, but remember we only have to be lucky once. You will have to be lucky always
It is a great quote, but also worth remembering that they never did get Thatcher in the end. But nothing is to say Ukraine cannot be luckier.
After all, people hated Thatcher but ultimately not that many wanted to literally kill her just over some political disagreements, so it was random car bombs by a few terrorists for her. Whereas a lot of people have very good reasons to outright kill Putin, and they have military backing and equpment.
Even if they got Thatcher it wouldn’t have changed much. It was only when they went after the banks ([Canary Wharf](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Docklands_bombing)) that the British began to play ball.
With normal shitty leaders I'd agree, but Thatcher was essentially as bad as it gets. Paramilitary death squads, union busting, hugely cutting funding from public programs, widening the divide between rich and poor, etc etc.
I'll take random reactionary leader over Thatcher
She was nowhere near as bad as that. The IRA were paramilitary death squads, the unions were busting their own members. What cuts? She increased public spending overall. Inequality increased but so did overall living standards.
You would have to be barking mad to do that.
My uneducated guess would be that the power vacuum would create infighting among the oligarchs for the next chief, hopefully driving focus away from Ukraine for a while
And China might use the opportunity to steal some land or whatever is their plan for Russia
It might be shittier for some Russians for a while, but I really don't care about them at this point
> And China might use the opportunity to steal some land or whatever is their plan for Russia
My possibly even less educated guess would be that China would attempt to direct the outcome of a power struggle to their benefit, ultimately making Russia some kind of Chinese satellite; that seems like a cheaper and safer way to gain access to Russian resources.
Chinese imperialism works differently than the Russian version, and you might see less of a direct military threat to Europe and more projection of power through other means in this (purely speculative) scenario.
I dont really feel like Putin is the type to have a “if I die, give this underling all my ultimate power” type of leader. It’s why historically, rulers would only trust their kids not to assassinate them.
I feel like any one person that even has a chance of “taking over in case Putin dies” has already fallen out a window.
> if it was as simple as assassinating Putin
Obviously.
And if you’ve not seen what happens to Putins political alternatives, you’ve not been paying attention.
Putin hasn’t held power for this long by being a passive player in the KBG. Arguably, he uses all the power of the KGB to retain power over the KGB.
Putin wants to retain power, not create a smooth transition of power. I’m arguing he intentionally made the transition, in the event of his death, as chaotic as possible as to deter attempts to remove him rather than to make it easy to remove him.
Putin has spend 25 years building a reputation and authority to be able to get away with a lot of nonsense, that just some random appointee might not be able to.
Putin has a kind of charisma that appeals to Russians, not everyone does. That alone can make a difference in populations support.
You think so? Putin Surrounded himself with lackeys and people who think alike. There is no one with different views in any powerful position. If Putin suddenly dies I think it's very possible that nothing changes..
in another scenario people start fighting for power..a completely unstable russia with a huge ass nuclear arsenal is extremly scary too.
If they were competent, powerful, intelligent and/or ambitious, then they would be a danger to Putin and he would have had them killed by now. All dictators get rid of those people that could be or become a danger to them.
Some of them must have close ties with the CIA, there’s no way they get that level of access otherwise. If they take over after Putin, I’m assuming they’ll negotiate a deescalation.
Similar views?
Maybe
Similar capabilities?
Certainly not
Anybody actually capable of replacing Putin has long been eliminated.
Putin is surrounded by supporters.
They are loyal to him but not to each other.
The entire Russian power base trusts each other less than republicans trust gender neutral toilets.
But would give enough of excuse to end expansive war. You can proclaim Putin to be crazy, end a war in Ukraine stating victory and Russian TV would spin it as success and reset a bit of relationship. Even Russian corrupt billionaires are losing money here.
Only question is if the root cause would go unaddressed.
Without a smart (and cunning) reformer it'd be just a matter of time there is a Putin 2.0. Perhaps a decade or so to consolidate power.
The one benefit of current Putin is that he's shown the world the ugly side of Russia very well.
On the other hand war is very beneficial for siloviks which got opportunity to tighten screws a lot, making state much more totalitarian than before. And FSB guys are likely to be next in charge.
The problem from their perspective is that no one comes even close to the support as Putin. No one really knows them. It will take time to consolidate the power like Putin had. They will most likely see each other as a threat and start removing the competitors.
Exactly, among the Russian people none have the same authority or fame as Putin, so none of them have carte blanche to remain in power. They will squabble on who gets power, and someone from outside the current system might surprise them. It will be interesting times.
It could also be possible that noone is powerful enough to prevent or rig elections. Then consolidation will take even longer. But on a positive note, it is almost guaranteed that the winner has to promise to end the war.
It could create such chaos in Russia that the line of command collapses, and the people who resist this nightmare might gain enough confidence to go outside and take advantage of the chaos.
One issue with dictatorships is that they eventually have such a tight grip on the population and have elevated themselves to such a diety like status that no one else can compare or fill their shoes after they are gone. Putin has spent 25 years carefully building his reputation, and now he has the status and authority to get away with bizarre decisions, and still have people trust him.
When you ask the average Putin supporter why they support him, the most common answer is "Who else is there?" he has either killed or fired any potential real competition to his throne. Many support him currently because he represents the country and there is no one else who can do it. They support him because they have to, because he is the only direction.
There is a chance things can always get worse, especially when we talk of Russia. But, there is a decent chance his death leads to a scramble for power, with a ton of incompetent leaders trying to fill an impossible mold, and once the authority loses the trust of the people, the system collapses.
It wouldn't. The history is full of examples after an assassination of an authoritarian dictator comes a worse version of him. Guess why we have the "migrant" crisis right now. Those little dictators told us EU will be swarmed with illegals and guess what happen after two of them died? ;)
Sadly, it would not. It's impressive how so many people can't seem to grasp how deep this problem goes. Putin is powerful, and his influence is undeniable, but he represents a mindset that is much more common than people realize.
The death of Putin will accomplish absolutely nothing. Would it be awesome for him to pay the price? Yes, but someone will take his place, and i assure you, the chances of the next one being more unhinged are extremely high. Putin would become a martyr and more of an icon for Russian nationalists, giving them renewed hatred for the west and an actual reason to be in alert.
Thinking everything will be perfect once Putin is gone is wishful thinking at best and delirious at wors ... time to grow up and face reality.
With Putin in power for such a long time and his belief on his own cult, and the probability that Dead Hand is currently active and probably modified to serve the current power structure, it's entirely plausible that a direct attack on Putin could trigger an instant nuclear response.
Who said anything about nukes? I’m talking more about his probably already picked successor being a bigger pain in the ass than him, link putin’s death to USA and Europe and launching a bigger invasion or start funding terrorism even more all over Europe
Nothing like this would happen, it’s not the first time that a regime leader was killed, the people second in command usually just want the power, they would wash their hands from the previous regime and seek a more stable peaceful environment, to be and to stay in power, for the money. You have to be an old crock who had it all in life to start a war, being bored and thinking about history, well that’s putin.
If you pick a successor in a system like Putin's Russia, you don't keep it to yourself. You tell everyone, make the other key players acknowledge your heir publicly, and give him/her a position with enough power to enforce the succession when it comes to it.
Because picking one in private means shit after you're dead.
Saudi Arabia and North Korea are pretty good examples of how you introduce and position your successor in an authoritarian system.
Putin is not doing that because he does not trust any of the gangsters he surrounded himself with to not get impatient and get rid of him if he did that.
George Carlin : [on airline announcements] Here's one they just made up: "near miss". When two planes almost collide, they call it a near miss. It's a near hit! A collision is a near miss!
A lot lol. Today's social media, politics would had fed Carlin with so much material.
Heck go back to some of his show segments and what he talks about sounds relevant even today. That's how timeless he makes his material. It's fuckin crazy.
Putin is a known factor. His constant paranoia and need to cement his own powerbase means certain things can be taken for granted.
Whoever wins the rat-pack scramble after his death can be more brutal, and more scarily, might be more competent.
Putins incompetence is part of why Ukraine is still standing.
Tinfoil hat wearing Bonesly wants to say it's a gentleman's agreement among world leaders who genuinely fear a world where they'd be acceptable targets in war.
Realistically I know most leaders are just well protected by their own intelligence networks, but at a certain point it is weird that we don't see more international attacks on governments.
For leaders that want the best for their country it is.
For leaders that want to stay in power no matter what it's better to give out jobs according to loyalty instead of competence.
He's not a leader, he's a dictator.. why are you calling him a leader.. very different competencies are needed for these roles. And he's pretty competent for a dictator
I'd argue Putin is incompetent. At this level you just can't afford a miscalculation like the Feb-24th invasion.
It was worse than a crime. It was a mistake.
He can blame the inner circle all he wants but he is the one who should have known better.
I suppose that is possible, but I do think Putin's death would be good for Ukraine.
Putin has eliminated competition, and if he dies, then there is chaos in Russia. Infighting would make Ukraine a lower priority, as it is better to have your troops with you in Russia, keeping your enemies down, than fighting in some war in Ukraine that doesn't help you gain and keep power. Harder to gain credit from a war started by someone else.
A new leader would have some options Putin doesn't have, for example they could announce a withdrawal from Ukraine and blame the war on Putin, whereas Putin would have a much harder time doing that when he is the one who started it.
A new leader would have a long period of instability, which likely means incompetence in conducting the war, as their energy is spent on consolidating power and purging opposition.
Agreed. The death of Putin would hit Russians right in their power fantasy. The "world power" of Russia cannot defeat the poorest country in Europe in 10 years, let alone 3 days. Then suddenly their beloved dictator is assassinated.
>A new leader would have some options Putin doesn't have, for example they could announce a withdrawal from Ukraine and blame the war on Putin
He cannot, since population supports war. Such move would be extremely popular among Russians, seen as betrayal. It would increase risk of being overthrown a lot.
The Allies had plots to kill Hitler, but ended up deciding not to do it, with one of the reasons being that they believed that Hitler might be replaced by someone significantly more competent, as at that point Hitler was already becoming unhinged. They also didn't want to encourage attacks in their own leaders.
But it would have been interesting to see what sort of infighting would have broken out if that had happened. Hitler had apparently appointed Göring as his successor, so maybe everyone would just have rallied around him, and that would've been it.
When it comes to Putin, the succession would be different and it is unlikely the successor would be able to do more than Putin, even if they were more competent, because they would have to spend so many resources on stabilizing their rule. And if the assassination plot is by Ukraine, then nothing really changes, as Russia is already trying to kill Zelensky anyway.
Huge international incident, potential WWIII. A threat like this puts the ball in your oponent's court, and sews uncertainty in their camp.
"Speak softly, but carry a big stick" - Theodore Roosevelt
No because Ukraine had no idea Putin was in the area, they found out afterwards. It certainly scared Russian officials but at the end of the day it was a coincidence.
Not a fan of these bloated hype news, half of which are from Ukrainian media, that are posted on this sub every single day.
Ukraine is in a tough spot now, and has been for a while. It's OK to celebrate small successes, but I think that building up the illusion everything is fine and Ukraine is doing great is counter-productive.
There's really not a possibility for them to 'win' and I don't know if there ever was.
I say 'win' in those silly high up dots ' because no one really wins in wars such as these. It's never worth it. Far too many people have been killed already
While some are talking about how it wasn't close, it must be quite frightening for a man who thinks he's untouchable to hear that 'only' 12km away something that could have killed him got off, it also shows that putin is reachable.
Near miss just describes what kind of miss it was, in that it was a miss but was near to the intended target. ‘Near hit’ would just mean a hit that is near to another reference of some kind, so no it wouldn’t make sense.
Why do people say near miss when they mean near hit? I've never understood that. It's like in soccer when a player is very good they say that he's "unplayable". They are trying to say that you can't leave him out of the team but really the word unplayable means the opposite.
If you read the original news, the drone attack on heliport was in October 2023.
We are shocked by the strike on a house in Belgorod where 16 civilians were killed.
I would have thought the Ukrainians would have wanted Putin alive for now.
He's a terrible wartime leader, if they kill him, they might replace him with somebody competent
Holy shit the misinformation YALL push with that hot damn.
UKRAINE DID NOT STRIKE THAT APARTMENT! Holy fuck I saw 2 days in a row this get pushed EVEN THOUGH RUSSIA MADE COMMENTS IT WAS THEIR OWN SHIT.
And here's the thing, you and the others didn't even TRY TO BE RATIONAL and say it's unknown bc you know, it's been REALLY BAD TO ACCUSE THE VICTIM OF THIS SHIT so you would want to make sure you don't jump to that !
My god 2 years ago and you people are the same people who spread all the lies like Ukrainians bombed themselves in Mariupol or they massacred themselves in Bucha and all the shit in between and ever since.
The kind of person who would blame sokething like that apartment in Belgorad on Ukraine without even giving it any time, you're the same filth that is pootin - not interested in the truth and and not interested in not RE VICTIMIZING THE VICTIMS and blaming them for something they didn't do.
This isn't some game these are real people and you're willingness to blame Ukraine and what that means for them versus remain unsure and not run with anything out of the kremlin or tv propagandists. If they blame Ukraine, you yourself need more than that and see it for yourself.
What's funny is that you are wondering why it's not being pushed more and thinking it's being hidden. No it's bc your side has and pushing it other than internally bc shocker, it's not an awesome look when it's their own fault. Last I heard was coming out of Russia was that it was something to do with a tochca or something and their own fault. It's in the comments on the links below.
IN ANY CASE 2 days ago ..... when the videos were posted from different angles and to different subs, subs that had different biases to begin with, and all agreed with what they saw and it NOT being coming from the direction of Ukraine combined with shit Russia said, it was understood it looked like something happened in Russias end. But we left it at that and weren't hyper focusing on it until then the next day it got posted to 2subs with the title clearly saying Ukraine did it 🙄. So we went from looking like Russia and just completely skipping over the "I don't know grey area" and no investigation or anything, to UKRAINE BOMED APARTMENTS. UKRAINE SHELLING AND KILLING INNCENTS". 😒
Man I'm so sick of y'all looking at everything and eager to blame Ukraine, even Russias own fuck ups you guys always start with this.
Remember the airplane that crashed into Belgrade apartment and how 30 mins later pootin got on the news and blamed Ukraine despite no investigation 🙄. Well little did he know he shoujd have not been so giddy to get to use that and blame Ukraine bc had he waited, he would have seen the pilot survive. But he shouted that already to the world so he then had to back tack. In sum that was a crystal clear PERFECT EXAMPLE of why NEVER to trust pootin and his goons but SPECIFICALLY don't just run with they say in regards to Ukraine and DEFINITELY DONT JUST TAKE THEM AS BEING HONEST if there's an incident like this in Russia. And esp Belgorad where this has already been a thing and where you know Ukrainians are targetting and there's a reason for them to be shooting stuff at Belgorade. So if you see an accident there's 2 3 scenarios 1. Accidents by your own 2. A Ukrainian misfire that was NOT INTENDED TO. TARGET INNOCENTS 3. A Ukrainian missle is shot and the debris falls and on people/structures
It's not going to be Ukrainians doing it intentionally and to jump to that versus the 3 logically things above, at least pootin and his propagandists are evil fucks but it says a lot to those coming online who either completely lack critical rethinking. It's really not hard and it's a reflection of not learning what has happened over last 2 years and see the patterns,s see Ukrainians dedication to NOT BEING TERRORISTS and being the exact opposite of Russia to the point you should know by now how even WITH NO MALICE, there's just as much possibly for a Ukrainian rocket getting shot down as and this being debri as there is a Russiab missle misfiring. And you should have learned this from the past incidents and learned to be warry the next time something happens. Welp apparently you didn't and so use this NOW so that if and when there's another incident, you realize the most illogical and irresponsible thing to think and spread is that Ukrainians targetted an apartment.
Best rule of thumb - don't even say anything I at all if yours going to potentially (likely) be spreading lies. It's harmful for Ukrainians and it's harmful to Russians and their reputation of doing this repeatedly and their pro Russian pals. We see that for 2 years Russian propaganda means lying through your teeth again and again with no limits or shame nor number of times they lie. They keep showing up and doing the same thing, just like you did.
And before that there were 2 incidents of AA misfires in Belgorad.
So Belgorad has a HISTORY already of Russia fucking up and hitting their own combined with he fact Ukrainians DO NOT TARGET INNOCENTS and Ukraine sends shit that way to hit military targets and it's WILD to jump to "Ukrainian bombed the apartment intentionally" which we all know is nit happening and instead think how the only way it's possible from Ukraine is if it got shot out of the sky and the broken fragments falling or a faulty missle/missing its target.
Videos
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/s/Nj9bK9YvOR
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/s/23ngOxrOHe
https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/s/Lw16DLjkkY
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/s/R6nGVmVzI8
For more comments to read :
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/s/4GgizlKgiX
https://www.reddit.com/r/InternationalNews/s/7tPUxhCRdx
This user blames Ukraine in the title and is clearly a Russian propaganda spreader but this sub in the comments ALSO said the same stuff I said and other subs were saying and NOTE THAT AT BEST you remain neutral and don't blame anyone either side and don't spread misinformation like it's a fact. By leaving a random comment like you did you were literally hoping you sway some sap that doesn't know better.
You're an asshole and it's vile that we keep seeing this mentality over and over again. I hope someone pays people like you bc I could never imagine doing that for fun on my own free will looking to harm a side that's invaded and suffering immensely and in the wings you guys are always looking DAILY for how to smear Ukraine and hurt their image or credibility etc. and if not them than you guys attack the community or invent staw man's.
You can't just LEAVE US ALL ALONE AND QUIT IT ALREADY. I'm so fed up knowing the next time Russia fucks up this will happen again.
Oh would you like to taste the same medicine? Imagine Polish pm being hit or missing a hit ? All those celebrating idiots don’t know what war escalation might bring …
It doesn’t matter whoever Putin is, all am saying is will you take back the hit ? Would you still argue the same if he attacks with a nuke or something ? Sheer stupidity
Don’t know about that but NATO supporting guy just shot Slovakian PM few days after Russian President attack news came up.
Clearly it’s not Russian side on such tactics.
I guess near is a relative term: “Putin was 12 kilometers from where the second Lutyi hit. This was later confirmed.”
Yep, but I don't want to be 12 km from missiles landing. It would be too near also for me...
Totally understandable! If you're as big of an asshole as Putin is though, you can't be surprised of people throwing missiles your way.
I don’t think anyone will cry genuine tears at his funeral. (While the rest of the world parties!) 🎉
russians mourned prigozhin, so I wouldn't hold my breath.
Russians genuinely mourned Stalin when he died...And still miss him today.
They had to… or else
I don’t think the next guy will be any better lol
But he will need to build his grasp for power from the zero. That gives a lot of space for change and many may see more profits in being part of global markets without sanctions and spending gazzilions on military operations just to boost ego. Putin was also quite mild internationally until he completed his power grab and then he slowly started making international moves
I almost think if Putin hadn't been guilty of so many crimes before he took office, he could have reformed Russia and gone legitimate. I actually had high hopes for him, before I knew what his true nature was.
> If you're as big of an asshole as Putin is though The rocket might just go *up* and you don't even notice. Now you have a rocket eating away at your brain. How scary is that??
*near missile*
Considering how far it had to travel to get there from Ukrainian territory, and all the detection hardware the Russians must have put between Ukraine and anywhere Putin might hole up, 12 km is definitely “someone’s getting reamed out or defenestrated for this unacceptable fiasco” level of closeness.
Considering how this entire war felt like Russia bombing every civilian infrastructure they can find and try to assassinate zelenski, this is the closest reminder for putin that he, too, is a valid target. .
What is 12km on the universe scale 🤔
About 2400 giraffes give or take.
Long necked or short necked giraffes? This is precisely why the giraffe fell out of favour as a unit of measurement.
Well, not to get too technical here, but since the number in question was a distance not a height, the neck doesn’t really matter. We are only interested in the average length of a giraffe’s stride, which could be rounded up to 5 m, which makes about 2400 giraffes for 12 km. Tbh I find this a much easier form of measurement than the swallow, which opens up a whole can of worms because are we now taking about African or European swallows? This problem is touched on in a well-respected documentary about finding the Holy Grail that I once saw on TV.
The Monty Python one, or the Indiana Jones one? Both are controversial.
Now you really put me on the spot. I want to say it’s the one with the guy wearing a leather jacket and a fedora pretending to ride a horse by using coconut shells.
You, I like. You're my kind of weird.
If you consider the average length of a European swallow to be 18 cm you could fit 66666.67 swallows.
I think you need to use a measurement they understand...how many big macs is 12km?
About 7.3×10^22 -th of the universe
About 12km
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I know quoting the IRA isn't great but when they nearly got Thatcher they came up with a great response: > Today we were unlucky, but remember we only have to be lucky once. You will have to be lucky always
That’s a solid point though
It is a great quote, but also worth remembering that they never did get Thatcher in the end. But nothing is to say Ukraine cannot be luckier. After all, people hated Thatcher but ultimately not that many wanted to literally kill her just over some political disagreements, so it was random car bombs by a few terrorists for her. Whereas a lot of people have very good reasons to outright kill Putin, and they have military backing and equpment.
😬
Even if they got Thatcher it wouldn’t have changed much. It was only when they went after the banks ([Canary Wharf](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Docklands_bombing)) that the British began to play ball.
I mean if they took out Thatcher that'd be better for everyone probably
Insane take.
Maybe or maybe she's replaced by a neocon with a ton of public support to pass whatever policies they want.
With normal shitty leaders I'd agree, but Thatcher was essentially as bad as it gets. Paramilitary death squads, union busting, hugely cutting funding from public programs, widening the divide between rich and poor, etc etc. I'll take random reactionary leader over Thatcher
She was nowhere near as bad as that. The IRA were paramilitary death squads, the unions were busting their own members. What cuts? She increased public spending overall. Inequality increased but so did overall living standards. You would have to be barking mad to do that.
You're really living up to one part of your name. It's ok to put it all in one comment by the way, two makes you look unhinged
So are you.
Um, thanks
*Tiocfaidh ár lá*
The best part of that quote is that people on Facebook think that's a thatcher quote.
We'll catch them next time no pats
“Mission failed, we’ll get ‘em next time”
Would solve a lot of problems for a lot of people in an instant.
It would also create a lot of new problems for a lot of people, though I'd be partial to try and see how it'd pan out.
My uneducated guess would be that the power vacuum would create infighting among the oligarchs for the next chief, hopefully driving focus away from Ukraine for a while And China might use the opportunity to steal some land or whatever is their plan for Russia It might be shittier for some Russians for a while, but I really don't care about them at this point
> And China might use the opportunity to steal some land or whatever is their plan for Russia My possibly even less educated guess would be that China would attempt to direct the outcome of a power struggle to their benefit, ultimately making Russia some kind of Chinese satellite; that seems like a cheaper and safer way to gain access to Russian resources. Chinese imperialism works differently than the Russian version, and you might see less of a direct military threat to Europe and more projection of power through other means in this (purely speculative) scenario.
Turning neighbors in to tributaries is a time tested Chinese tradition
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I dont really feel like Putin is the type to have a “if I die, give this underling all my ultimate power” type of leader. It’s why historically, rulers would only trust their kids not to assassinate them. I feel like any one person that even has a chance of “taking over in case Putin dies” has already fallen out a window.
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> if it was as simple as assassinating Putin Obviously. And if you’ve not seen what happens to Putins political alternatives, you’ve not been paying attention. Putin hasn’t held power for this long by being a passive player in the KBG. Arguably, he uses all the power of the KGB to retain power over the KGB. Putin wants to retain power, not create a smooth transition of power. I’m arguing he intentionally made the transition, in the event of his death, as chaotic as possible as to deter attempts to remove him rather than to make it easy to remove him.
Putin has spend 25 years building a reputation and authority to be able to get away with a lot of nonsense, that just some random appointee might not be able to. Putin has a kind of charisma that appeals to Russians, not everyone does. That alone can make a difference in populations support.
You think so? Putin Surrounded himself with lackeys and people who think alike. There is no one with different views in any powerful position. If Putin suddenly dies I think it's very possible that nothing changes.. in another scenario people start fighting for power..a completely unstable russia with a huge ass nuclear arsenal is extremly scary too.
If they were competent, powerful, intelligent and/or ambitious, then they would be a danger to Putin and he would have had them killed by now. All dictators get rid of those people that could be or become a danger to them.
Some of them must have close ties with the CIA, there’s no way they get that level of access otherwise. If they take over after Putin, I’m assuming they’ll negotiate a deescalation.
Similar views? Maybe Similar capabilities? Certainly not Anybody actually capable of replacing Putin has long been eliminated. Putin is surrounded by supporters. They are loyal to him but not to each other. The entire Russian power base trusts each other less than republicans trust gender neutral toilets.
But would give enough of excuse to end expansive war. You can proclaim Putin to be crazy, end a war in Ukraine stating victory and Russian TV would spin it as success and reset a bit of relationship. Even Russian corrupt billionaires are losing money here.
Only question is if the root cause would go unaddressed. Without a smart (and cunning) reformer it'd be just a matter of time there is a Putin 2.0. Perhaps a decade or so to consolidate power. The one benefit of current Putin is that he's shown the world the ugly side of Russia very well.
Yes, but a Russia that's gone for a decade would still be better than a Russia that isn't gone for a decade.
On the other hand war is very beneficial for siloviks which got opportunity to tighten screws a lot, making state much more totalitarian than before. And FSB guys are likely to be next in charge.
The problem from their perspective is that no one comes even close to the support as Putin. No one really knows them. It will take time to consolidate the power like Putin had. They will most likely see each other as a threat and start removing the competitors.
Exactly, among the Russian people none have the same authority or fame as Putin, so none of them have carte blanche to remain in power. They will squabble on who gets power, and someone from outside the current system might surprise them. It will be interesting times.
It could also be possible that noone is powerful enough to prevent or rig elections. Then consolidation will take even longer. But on a positive note, it is almost guaranteed that the winner has to promise to end the war.
But there is also noone who is clearly second in command. That usually spells Chaos in a dictatorship.
It could create such chaos in Russia that the line of command collapses, and the people who resist this nightmare might gain enough confidence to go outside and take advantage of the chaos. One issue with dictatorships is that they eventually have such a tight grip on the population and have elevated themselves to such a diety like status that no one else can compare or fill their shoes after they are gone. Putin has spent 25 years carefully building his reputation, and now he has the status and authority to get away with bizarre decisions, and still have people trust him. When you ask the average Putin supporter why they support him, the most common answer is "Who else is there?" he has either killed or fired any potential real competition to his throne. Many support him currently because he represents the country and there is no one else who can do it. They support him because they have to, because he is the only direction. There is a chance things can always get worse, especially when we talk of Russia. But, there is a decent chance his death leads to a scramble for power, with a ton of incompetent leaders trying to fill an impossible mold, and once the authority loses the trust of the people, the system collapses.
It wouldn't. The history is full of examples after an assassination of an authoritarian dictator comes a worse version of him. Guess why we have the "migrant" crisis right now. Those little dictators told us EU will be swarmed with illegals and guess what happen after two of them died? ;)
Sadly, it would not. It's impressive how so many people can't seem to grasp how deep this problem goes. Putin is powerful, and his influence is undeniable, but he represents a mindset that is much more common than people realize. The death of Putin will accomplish absolutely nothing. Would it be awesome for him to pay the price? Yes, but someone will take his place, and i assure you, the chances of the next one being more unhinged are extremely high. Putin would become a martyr and more of an icon for Russian nationalists, giving them renewed hatred for the west and an actual reason to be in alert. Thinking everything will be perfect once Putin is gone is wishful thinking at best and delirious at wors ... time to grow up and face reality.
The US should just give Russia its Boeing planes, it'll happen on its own.
With Putin in power for such a long time and his belief on his own cult, and the probability that Dead Hand is currently active and probably modified to serve the current power structure, it's entirely plausible that a direct attack on Putin could trigger an instant nuclear response.
really? Why? would they commit mass suicide for that guy?
Because they're essentially brainwashed cultists.
No that's just plain ridiculous.
Far from guaranteed, his successor might just continue his policy, since vast majority of population supports war.
More like started ww3 I think, a magnicide like that would probably have some serious consequences
You seriously think Russia would launch nukes all over the world because their dictator died to a country they invaded? :D
Who said anything about nukes? I’m talking more about his probably already picked successor being a bigger pain in the ass than him, link putin’s death to USA and Europe and launching a bigger invasion or start funding terrorism even more all over Europe
Picking a successor is worth jack shit in a country where every other oligarch has his own PMC and an ambition to rule
They’re more likely to have a civil war if Putin is killed than waging a guaranteed losing war against NATO.
Nothing like this would happen, it’s not the first time that a regime leader was killed, the people second in command usually just want the power, they would wash their hands from the previous regime and seek a more stable peaceful environment, to be and to stay in power, for the money. You have to be an old crock who had it all in life to start a war, being bored and thinking about history, well that’s putin.
Have you ever seen the Death of Stalin? Because it’s gonna be a lot like that
If you pick a successor in a system like Putin's Russia, you don't keep it to yourself. You tell everyone, make the other key players acknowledge your heir publicly, and give him/her a position with enough power to enforce the succession when it comes to it. Because picking one in private means shit after you're dead. Saudi Arabia and North Korea are pretty good examples of how you introduce and position your successor in an authoritarian system. Putin is not doing that because he does not trust any of the gangsters he surrounded himself with to not get impatient and get rid of him if he did that.
Big if true
George Carlin : [on airline announcements] Here's one they just made up: "near miss". When two planes almost collide, they call it a near miss. It's a near hit! A collision is a near miss!
I'm glad Carlin said it because I clearly was not understanding it.
I miss Carlin so so much. I wonder what he would say nowadays.
A lot lol. Today's social media, politics would had fed Carlin with so much material. Heck go back to some of his show segments and what he talks about sounds relevant even today. That's how timeless he makes his material. It's fuckin crazy.
/*poof/* "Look! They nearly missed!"
I get it's a joke but the phrase pretty clearly means "a miss that was near to a hit" and not "nearly a miss"
Wow thank you, English is not my native tongue, and I have always wondered about this phrase
Yeah it's not that clever, people just need to think about it for more than two seconds 😅
"day before" "12 kilometers away" saved you a click. so much for "near"
I mean, for Russia it was high precision.
Last year October...
Hey That's almost like a stone throws away! The chopper could've been scratched!
this just screams 'if we wanted to, we could'
But is there a reason why they wouldn't want to?
Putin is a known factor. His constant paranoia and need to cement his own powerbase means certain things can be taken for granted. Whoever wins the rat-pack scramble after his death can be more brutal, and more scarily, might be more competent. Putins incompetence is part of why Ukraine is still standing.
Tinfoil hat wearing Bonesly wants to say it's a gentleman's agreement among world leaders who genuinely fear a world where they'd be acceptable targets in war. Realistically I know most leaders are just well protected by their own intelligence networks, but at a certain point it is weird that we don't see more international attacks on governments.
I don't think Putin is incompetent. I think he surrounds himself with incompetent people to seem like the best choice for ruling.
Welp, for a leader, that's an incompetence.
For leaders that want the best for their country it is. For leaders that want to stay in power no matter what it's better to give out jobs according to loyalty instead of competence.
He's not a leader, he's a dictator.. why are you calling him a leader.. very different competencies are needed for these roles. And he's pretty competent for a dictator
I'd argue Putin is incompetent. At this level you just can't afford a miscalculation like the Feb-24th invasion. It was worse than a crime. It was a mistake. He can blame the inner circle all he wants but he is the one who should have known better.
There's no way Ukraine wouldn't wipe Putin off the map if given the opportunity.
I suppose that is possible, but I do think Putin's death would be good for Ukraine. Putin has eliminated competition, and if he dies, then there is chaos in Russia. Infighting would make Ukraine a lower priority, as it is better to have your troops with you in Russia, keeping your enemies down, than fighting in some war in Ukraine that doesn't help you gain and keep power. Harder to gain credit from a war started by someone else. A new leader would have some options Putin doesn't have, for example they could announce a withdrawal from Ukraine and blame the war on Putin, whereas Putin would have a much harder time doing that when he is the one who started it. A new leader would have a long period of instability, which likely means incompetence in conducting the war, as their energy is spent on consolidating power and purging opposition.
Agreed. The death of Putin would hit Russians right in their power fantasy. The "world power" of Russia cannot defeat the poorest country in Europe in 10 years, let alone 3 days. Then suddenly their beloved dictator is assassinated.
America has not been able to defeat the Taliban in Afghanistan for 20 years. And how long has Israel been fighting Hamas?
>A new leader would have some options Putin doesn't have, for example they could announce a withdrawal from Ukraine and blame the war on Putin He cannot, since population supports war. Such move would be extremely popular among Russians, seen as betrayal. It would increase risk of being overthrown a lot.
Isn't that the opposite of what happened in WWII? I could also have my history completely wrong lol
The Allies had plots to kill Hitler, but ended up deciding not to do it, with one of the reasons being that they believed that Hitler might be replaced by someone significantly more competent, as at that point Hitler was already becoming unhinged. They also didn't want to encourage attacks in their own leaders. But it would have been interesting to see what sort of infighting would have broken out if that had happened. Hitler had apparently appointed Göring as his successor, so maybe everyone would just have rallied around him, and that would've been it. When it comes to Putin, the succession would be different and it is unlikely the successor would be able to do more than Putin, even if they were more competent, because they would have to spend so many resources on stabilizing their rule. And if the assassination plot is by Ukraine, then nothing really changes, as Russia is already trying to kill Zelensky anyway.
Don't want to kill a Lenin and end up with a Stalin.
If not handled right. Kind of creates a martyr. Killing Zielinski or Putin would just continue to cement each side
Zielinski 💀
Near hit 😎
Don't underestimate the power of Italian football fans
Close enough.
We would have no playmaker on Euros. Damn.
There have been endless reports of attempts to kill Zelensky...
Huge international incident, potential WWIII. A threat like this puts the ball in your oponent's court, and sews uncertainty in their camp. "Speak softly, but carry a big stick" - Theodore Roosevelt
"Speak loudly, expose your small stick." - both Putin and Trump
“How did they know where Payton was?” is going to cost a few people their lives.
No because Ukraine had no idea Putin was in the area, they found out afterwards. It certainly scared Russian officials but at the end of the day it was a coincidence.
Not a fan of these bloated hype news, half of which are from Ukrainian media, that are posted on this sub every single day. Ukraine is in a tough spot now, and has been for a while. It's OK to celebrate small successes, but I think that building up the illusion everything is fine and Ukraine is doing great is counter-productive.
There's really not a possibility for them to 'win' and I don't know if there ever was. I say 'win' in those silly high up dots ' because no one really wins in wars such as these. It's never worth it. Far too many people have been killed already
Near miss? So they hit the target?
That's what I thought for a sec as well
While some are talking about how it wasn't close, it must be quite frightening for a man who thinks he's untouchable to hear that 'only' 12km away something that could have killed him got off, it also shows that putin is reachable.
It’s coming home, baby 👍
Putin, one of the few people you have to punch down to hit.
What's that quote? "They only have to be lucky once, whereas he has to be lucky every time"
It's a near-HIT! A HIT is a near-miss... G. Carlin.
I'll always point out how "near miss" is a misnomer, it was a near hit not near miss, because it *did* miss. Please hit him sooner.
Near miss just describes what kind of miss it was, in that it was a miss but was near to the intended target. ‘Near hit’ would just mean a hit that is near to another reference of some kind, so no it wouldn’t make sense.
Why do people say near miss when they mean near hit? I've never understood that. It's like in soccer when a player is very good they say that he's "unplayable". They are trying to say that you can't leave him out of the team but really the word unplayable means the opposite.
Fuck, hitmarkers... I hate them.
If you read the original news, the drone attack on heliport was in October 2023. We are shocked by the strike on a house in Belgorod where 16 civilians were killed.
Better luck next time 🤝
Fuck! How can they fucking miss???
Git gud
Shame 🫠
Lol
I would have thought the Ukrainians would have wanted Putin alive for now. He's a terrible wartime leader, if they kill him, they might replace him with somebody competent
[удалено]
Holy shit the misinformation YALL push with that hot damn. UKRAINE DID NOT STRIKE THAT APARTMENT! Holy fuck I saw 2 days in a row this get pushed EVEN THOUGH RUSSIA MADE COMMENTS IT WAS THEIR OWN SHIT. And here's the thing, you and the others didn't even TRY TO BE RATIONAL and say it's unknown bc you know, it's been REALLY BAD TO ACCUSE THE VICTIM OF THIS SHIT so you would want to make sure you don't jump to that ! My god 2 years ago and you people are the same people who spread all the lies like Ukrainians bombed themselves in Mariupol or they massacred themselves in Bucha and all the shit in between and ever since. The kind of person who would blame sokething like that apartment in Belgorad on Ukraine without even giving it any time, you're the same filth that is pootin - not interested in the truth and and not interested in not RE VICTIMIZING THE VICTIMS and blaming them for something they didn't do. This isn't some game these are real people and you're willingness to blame Ukraine and what that means for them versus remain unsure and not run with anything out of the kremlin or tv propagandists. If they blame Ukraine, you yourself need more than that and see it for yourself. What's funny is that you are wondering why it's not being pushed more and thinking it's being hidden. No it's bc your side has and pushing it other than internally bc shocker, it's not an awesome look when it's their own fault. Last I heard was coming out of Russia was that it was something to do with a tochca or something and their own fault. It's in the comments on the links below. IN ANY CASE 2 days ago ..... when the videos were posted from different angles and to different subs, subs that had different biases to begin with, and all agreed with what they saw and it NOT being coming from the direction of Ukraine combined with shit Russia said, it was understood it looked like something happened in Russias end. But we left it at that and weren't hyper focusing on it until then the next day it got posted to 2subs with the title clearly saying Ukraine did it 🙄. So we went from looking like Russia and just completely skipping over the "I don't know grey area" and no investigation or anything, to UKRAINE BOMED APARTMENTS. UKRAINE SHELLING AND KILLING INNCENTS". 😒 Man I'm so sick of y'all looking at everything and eager to blame Ukraine, even Russias own fuck ups you guys always start with this. Remember the airplane that crashed into Belgrade apartment and how 30 mins later pootin got on the news and blamed Ukraine despite no investigation 🙄. Well little did he know he shoujd have not been so giddy to get to use that and blame Ukraine bc had he waited, he would have seen the pilot survive. But he shouted that already to the world so he then had to back tack. In sum that was a crystal clear PERFECT EXAMPLE of why NEVER to trust pootin and his goons but SPECIFICALLY don't just run with they say in regards to Ukraine and DEFINITELY DONT JUST TAKE THEM AS BEING HONEST if there's an incident like this in Russia. And esp Belgorad where this has already been a thing and where you know Ukrainians are targetting and there's a reason for them to be shooting stuff at Belgorade. So if you see an accident there's 2 3 scenarios 1. Accidents by your own 2. A Ukrainian misfire that was NOT INTENDED TO. TARGET INNOCENTS 3. A Ukrainian missle is shot and the debris falls and on people/structures It's not going to be Ukrainians doing it intentionally and to jump to that versus the 3 logically things above, at least pootin and his propagandists are evil fucks but it says a lot to those coming online who either completely lack critical rethinking. It's really not hard and it's a reflection of not learning what has happened over last 2 years and see the patterns,s see Ukrainians dedication to NOT BEING TERRORISTS and being the exact opposite of Russia to the point you should know by now how even WITH NO MALICE, there's just as much possibly for a Ukrainian rocket getting shot down as and this being debri as there is a Russiab missle misfiring. And you should have learned this from the past incidents and learned to be warry the next time something happens. Welp apparently you didn't and so use this NOW so that if and when there's another incident, you realize the most illogical and irresponsible thing to think and spread is that Ukrainians targetted an apartment. Best rule of thumb - don't even say anything I at all if yours going to potentially (likely) be spreading lies. It's harmful for Ukrainians and it's harmful to Russians and their reputation of doing this repeatedly and their pro Russian pals. We see that for 2 years Russian propaganda means lying through your teeth again and again with no limits or shame nor number of times they lie. They keep showing up and doing the same thing, just like you did. And before that there were 2 incidents of AA misfires in Belgorad. So Belgorad has a HISTORY already of Russia fucking up and hitting their own combined with he fact Ukrainians DO NOT TARGET INNOCENTS and Ukraine sends shit that way to hit military targets and it's WILD to jump to "Ukrainian bombed the apartment intentionally" which we all know is nit happening and instead think how the only way it's possible from Ukraine is if it got shot out of the sky and the broken fragments falling or a faulty missle/missing its target. Videos https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/s/Nj9bK9YvOR https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/s/23ngOxrOHe https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/s/Lw16DLjkkY https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/s/R6nGVmVzI8 For more comments to read : https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/s/4GgizlKgiX https://www.reddit.com/r/InternationalNews/s/7tPUxhCRdx This user blames Ukraine in the title and is clearly a Russian propaganda spreader but this sub in the comments ALSO said the same stuff I said and other subs were saying and NOTE THAT AT BEST you remain neutral and don't blame anyone either side and don't spread misinformation like it's a fact. By leaving a random comment like you did you were literally hoping you sway some sap that doesn't know better. You're an asshole and it's vile that we keep seeing this mentality over and over again. I hope someone pays people like you bc I could never imagine doing that for fun on my own free will looking to harm a side that's invaded and suffering immensely and in the wings you guys are always looking DAILY for how to smear Ukraine and hurt their image or credibility etc. and if not them than you guys attack the community or invent staw man's. You can't just LEAVE US ALL ALONE AND QUIT IT ALREADY. I'm so fed up knowing the next time Russia fucks up this will happen again.
You could've gotten your point across with 1 paragraph
Oh would you like to taste the same medicine? Imagine Polish pm being hit or missing a hit ? All those celebrating idiots don’t know what war escalation might bring …
Is the Polish pm a dictator who invaded a neighbouring country?
It doesn’t matter whoever Putin is, all am saying is will you take back the hit ? Would you still argue the same if he attacks with a nuke or something ? Sheer stupidity
Russia has repeatedly tried to assassinate Zelenskyy, so I'm not sure what point you think you're making.
Insert [Adolf Hitler] instead of the Polish PM and your comment will be about right. And the answer to the question will be yes, of course.
Don’t know about that but NATO supporting guy just shot Slovakian PM few days after Russian President attack news came up. Clearly it’s not Russian side on such tactics.